Elmer and his boys wanted a 40 cal revolver cartridge using a 200 gr bullet at 900 fps. This in a lightweight revolver that was smaller than an N Frame. S&W did not want to make a smaller frame so came out with it in the N frame. The load for the 41 Magnum meant for the police was a 210 gr lead SWC that went about 800 fps from a 4 inch and leaded the barrel badly. My first 41 Mag was a 6 in M57. I bought a couple of boxes of the Police Load and was very disappointed. Fired them up for the brass. The 210 gr jacketed ammo was fine. The harder cast bullets worked fine in my handloads. I dont think the 41 Special was ever made in a factory revolver. Conversions were made with the Ruger Security Six and the K frame S&W IIRC. Made for a nice revolver but very expensive. And you had to handload it. At the time, I had a 5 inch Model 1950 S&W in 44 Special. I didnt see the need for the 41 Special. Good video and a bit of history.

I knew the 41 special existed from an old lyman reloading manual...an eye opener for sure. Add another round to the list that "should be more popular" for sure.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely. I'm surprised it was ever in a manual since it's not a SAAMI recognized cartridge. I didn't know anyone published data for a wildcat other than enthusiasts , etc..

@JoseyWalesWi

6 ай бұрын

@plowboysghost I am just speculating...but with the old Seirra manual (my mistake) check out fortunecookie45lc and HSM loading, maybe it was going to be a SAMMI spec round that never came to light. Again just guessing.

I didn't even know .41 special existed. Interesting round. HSM does some really Great stuff! Best Wishes from Montana! M.H.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Thank you.

One problem the .41 magnum faced was that the heavy hunting load was introduced first. This pretty much killed police interest in the cartridge and departments that had adopted it, quickly had to replace it with something else.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Yep 👍

Cool Deal. I didn't know that the .41 Special Cartridge existed. Always learn when I watch your videos, Mr. Plowboy.

@plowboysghost

3 ай бұрын

Thanks, James.

Great info on the .41 Special. Keep'em coming!!

LOVE YOUR VIDEOS PLOWBOY.I AM ALSO A BIG FAN OF SINGLE ACTIONS.I HAVE BEEN CARRYING A SUPER BLACKHAWK 44 MAG SINCE 2009 99.9 PERCENT OF THE TIME.PICKED UP A SUPERWRANGLER IN MAY AND A THREE SCREW 357 BLACKHAWK ON DEC.22.ALL ARE LOADED WITH MAGNUM AMMO.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Sweet. Thanks!

My uncle used to carry a 41 magnum in a S&W revolver back in the early 70’s. I like your hang out too. I hang out in my garage a lot in the summer.

@plowboysghost

3 ай бұрын

I've been carrying mine a bit, too

Plowboy, I used to own a Smith & Wesson 58. I loved the gun but the HKS speedloader didnt give me the confidence to do a speedload like I could with my 581 with Safariland Comp II speed loaders. Like a fool I sold my 58. Now I see Five Star makes a new speed loader for .41 Magnum 6 shot Smiths. If you ever do a review and comparison of these two speedloaders on your 57 I would definitely be interested and maybe you would too.

I always enjoyed the 41 mag. It wasn't horrible on recoil and it produced a lot of power.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

🤠🍻

Hamilton Bowen used to convert 686/586 to 41 mag. Sadly he doesn’t work on S&W anymore

Enjoy your videos. Thanks. Thinking of PD’s it probably wasn’t legality they were thinking about but the cost of ammo. Most PD’s in the Revolver era were using 38 special and later +P’s in that loading. Training, ammo cost and recoil management were probably the main drivers.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, I had intended to go into the cost aspect and it slipped my mind. Thanks!

@duke927

6 ай бұрын

As an LEO I carried a SW Model 10 (38 Special)from 1977 to 1993 when we went to 9mm. I definitely did not know much about guns then wondering why the 9mm was more powerful than a 38 as the case of the 9mm was so much smaller:) Thanks!

@tbjtbj4786

4 ай бұрын

I think gun weight had a lot to do with it. Depending on when and where and what department. Even into the 90's you might have to buy your on firearms and I know one small police department your on ammo to. The sheriff department would give you a list of approved manufacturers and calibers you bought what you wanted. And the small pd as far as ammo went any American manufacturers hollow point. But I am going on first year of that pd and there was 4 of use if you counted the Cheif. It had been a community then a unincorporated town for 50 years or so then they became the county's smallest city in the mid 90's. 38, 357mag, 9mm and 45acp were the first 4 duty handguns. Then 2 went with the 10mm with full power loads

I’ve been loading it for about a year now. Fun to be able to shoot my Model 58 rapidly without punishing recoil.

Several years ago handloader magazine did severeal in depth articles on hand loads and bullet design and handguns on the 41 mag and 41 special. It definitely one that should have done better in the popular category. Now you're making me want one. I also enjoy the n frame for the same reasons as you. And if you find an older one I don't normally change out the springs to improve things it's usually really good how it left the factory

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

I'm definitely leaving the springs in my no dash 57 alone. It's smooth and single action is crisp and very light. I'm not messing with it 😁👍

Both good calibers, 41 mag has been a favorite for yrs. Happy New Years to you and yours😎

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Thanks..and Happy New Year to you/ y'all.

The 41 magnum is a great caliber. Before I reloaded I had a Blackhawk in 41 mag but traded it. Would love to pick up another some day.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

I think so, too

HSM makes a cowboy action 44 mag that's loaded to about 950fps that I believe was a cast 240gr swc. HSM also makes their hard cast a bit softer than a lot of other companies. They make theirs at 15 brinell hardness, so if you push them a bit, they'll hold together well but they'll also expand a bit.

Great Video PlowBoy! .41 Special and .41 Mag is two I have never seen before. Sounds interesting though.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

I've been interested in .41 Mag for years, but REALLY got interested in it early 2023 when I got this Model 57.

@millcreekrange

6 ай бұрын

@@plowboysghost I need to stay away then. I don’t need another caliber right now. Got enough irons in the ole fire as it is. 🤣

I agree on wanting the headstamp to actually match the cartridge.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

🍻

@Squib1911

6 ай бұрын

@@plowboysghost doin' that right now.

Taurus had the .41 Magnum in a 4 inch ported Titanium frame and barrel shroud. It is painful to shoot with full magnum loads, especially with those crappy "ribber" grips. I have Houges on mine and load .41 special loads for it. Trimmed down .41 brass. It is most pleasant to shoot with the .41 Special rounds, especially when loaded with the 170 grain bullet.

@plowboysghost

Күн бұрын

@@michaelsarkisian1047 Awesome.

Those are very interesting. i have found 44 special with a 200 grainer. Doing 1000 fps is a great round, but is pushing it a bit for some 44 special guns..... Now Those ballistics in a 41 mag...... hmmmm that sounds very promising for a defensive load.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

I think there's a lot of potential in both Magnum and Special form.

Reed's Ammo has had several variations of the .41 Special since shortly after Starline added .41 Special to their regular production. About 20 years ago a Gary Peak contracted with Starline for 55k .41 Special cases...he also had to pay for the headstamp die....he is the one everyone should thank for the .41 Special coming into the Starline lineup. Th .41 Special would be perfect for the Ruger GP-100, Colt Python and L-frame Smiths...unfortunately until one of the ammo companies sponsors it to SAAMI it will remain a "wildcat"... Ruger Backhawk S&W 57 Classic Freedom Arms 97 and 83 Henry leverguns ...that is it for new guns.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

🤠🍻

@robertmakowski7808

6 ай бұрын

"Factory loaded Wildcat" only because it has never been SAAMI Certified...@@plowboysghost

It would be interesting to test deep seating SWC’s and crimping over the front driving band over lighter charges of powder to increase efficiency without having to use your “special” brass. It’s all about pressure.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

It would, indeed.

I'll be curious to see what you think of the .41 special once you've shot it. I have a hankering for a .41 mag single action. Keeping an eye out for one. That cartridge interests me.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

I'll try to find the best load for carry in Special cases...but I may stay with Magnums for that. I'll use Specials, either way, for something. I'm looking for a local deal on a Blackhawk in .41 Mag, myself..to add to what I have. Not trading my Model 57 off.

Mr. plowboysghost- I own a .41 Special built from a .357 Blackhawk, and I am glad to learn that factory loads may be becoming available. The revolver has the advantage of being lighter and handier than Super Blackhawks and N-frame Smith & Wessons while still firing a powerful round, so hopefully the .41 Special will catch on more. Thanks for your video. Bob

@Wildwestwrangler

3 ай бұрын

Check out Underwood Ammo for some 41 mag and get it shipped to your house. And yes it's factory ammo.

I like it. Mr plowboysghost now has a “special power” secretly known as “Wildcat Wonder” or simply .41 Special, LOL. Looks like you have made a sound investment in those .41 Special rounds with quality Starline brass for reloads. Enjoy and Happy New Year sir!

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Thank you, sir...and Happy New Year to you.🤠🍻

Check out the underwood ammo 41 mag. They typically load hotter than HSM and their stuff is within saami spec.

this is the first Time I've ever heard of 41 Special.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Being a wildcat cartridge.there aren't many videos on it. FortuneCookie45LC has done several, years ago.

Yep you are correct. If s&w would have made an L frame in the caliber 41 SPL it would have been a big hit for sure and yeah s&w made a night gaurd model in 41 mag

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Night Guard...that was it. Thanks 👍

yup. i am om the fence with 41, i got a few 44 mags and a 44 GP100. i own a bunch of 38s and a single 357 GP100 but likely will never load 357 in it, got 100's of brass and spare dies to set. but, then we have 10mm in a revolver which can run in a bunch of auto's. with your unique issue of 41 special brass, how long will that 50 last ? 6 reloads each ? i was itching for a 44-40 but brass is unicorn poop to find, i got lucky and found 43 bits of brass from a local 'everything' discount store, think i paid like $10. but with 44-40 and that thin neck, yikes, i dread crushing cases, then i have a 500 dollar paper weight. as i reload everything, not sure if i'd get anything extra from a 41 i cant reload a 44 to do, i can down-load 44 to powder puff 38s. but, i love 44 special due to historical use and the fact its not a magnum, same way i love hot loading 38s in my taurus m82 SS4 (its a tank). so maybe if a 41 hits my LGS, maybe it'll end up in my truck home. i think you need to do another video of the 41 and more why is it the best thing since sliced bread. i dont hunt with handguns, so from a reloader standpoint and historical collector etcetc, from your standpoint, still a 'different' shooting experience than 44 ?

The envisioned police load was a 210 grain lead swc@900fps. Remington didn't think they would make enough money on this, hence the 210jhp @ 1300 from a 4inch barrel. This was 1964, there was no l frame, or gp100; and the guns were not that easy to find even then. I'd carry a model 57 with the police load in town, and the magnum load when assigned to the interstate. Had a handload of a Lee 195 grain lead hollowpoint @ about 1050fps that would expand and was very accurate. Winchester also had a 175g slivertip at one time.

@ChadBoss-qr4hl

2 ай бұрын

What's the rationale behind carrying the magnum load on the interstate? Just because there's not as much worry for over-penetration/missed shots going somewhere you'd rather they didn't? I'm watching these videos about the .41 because I'm hoping to pick up a Blackhawk in a couple days, your comment raised my curiosity.

Bought my 1st revolver in 1978 model 14- 38 target masterpiece. My Second the following year, Model 57 [no dash] S&W 41 Rem Mag, shot target, and deer with the revolver, 45 years later the revolver still sits in my gun room, and i might add it's still like new, with a bit of holster wear. love that gun!

@plowboysghost

4 ай бұрын

Awesome. Thanks!

Just dropped by to get away from the politics Relaxing! Thanks!

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

I do the same thing. 👍

The 1st 41 magnum I ever saw was in the mid 80s when I was a teenager! It was owned by a security guard we all called "Pop"! He carried a 6 inch S&W! I always heard the 41 mag was the ultimate police firearm but the "wonder nines" came along and power got traded for bullet count! I remember picking a Glock 17 9mm in the early 90s over a 40 cal because I thought the 40 was going to be the new 41 mag 😂! I own two 41 mags now in Ruger Blackhawk and Charter Arms Bull Pug and love them!

Agree completely, if they had made a .41 special cartridge (and called it .41 special ) and Smith made a .41 special L frame (and called it .41special), it would have been a popular police handgun back in the day. Kieth and Jordan were right. I was wondering about fitting 6 .41 caliber chambers in a cylinder that would fit an L frame, seems like a tight squeeze..

I like 41 colt. Its difficult to find,and star line has had a waiting list thats over 5 years in the going now. 41mag is a fantastic cartridge. I wonder if that 41 special is close to 41 colt in performance?

Interesting find. I agree with you (based solely on what I have read) that the cartridge would or could have enjoyed a lot more success if it occupied the niche between 357 and 44 instead of coming out as a lesser version of 44. Will be interested in what you find regarding fps and ftl/bs. Maybe a local gun enthusiast can lend you a chrono since you are not going to become a ballistician? Wouldn't take but an afternoon to get some numbers.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

I've been thinking on buying a ProChrono LTD just to have one to play with, anyway. Thanks!

you are right sir, love mine

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Thank you.

I love HSM ammo.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

🤠👍

I was on backorder for .41 Spl from Starline earlier this year cause they didn't have .41 Mag. After a couple months of waiting they had .41 Mag available so I bought that and I left the .41 Spl on backorder and to this day it still says processing on my order for the .41 Spl. lol

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Says No Backorder on .41 Special, now.

@bluescatreimer

6 ай бұрын

@@plowboysghost I just looked on my acct with them and I had ordered the .41 Spl on 9-9-22 and it still says processing on it. Somebody dropped the ball and didn't cancel my backorder. 😄

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

@@bluescatreimer Sure looks that way.

@bluescatreimer

6 ай бұрын

@@plowboysghost Are you going to post a video of you shooting the .41 Special? I sure hope so, 😁 Did you see that Starline has load data for the .41 Spl?

I think it was a few years ago, Fourtunecookie45LC was loading 41 Special and was talking about the efficacy with lighter loads. Speaking of buying factory ammo those prices make me sick. I can reload 50 of my hand cast 640gr HP bullets for my 500 S&W cheaper than I can buy a box of 50 9mm lugers.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Yep I've watched his videos on a lot of things including.41 Mag and Special. I know what you mean about the cost

I know...!

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Heck yeah!

41 magnum is great just as good as 44 magnum not as harsh recoil as 44 magnum I've seen mild 41 magnum factory loads.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Yep.

Bulk Reloading Supplies has41 special brass in stock at25.61 per 100. 👍🏻

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Thanks. Have you ordered from them before or know anyone who has?

@petercraw8188

4 ай бұрын

There are several scams online that will take your order. They do not accept credit cards, only Zelle as payment. No phone numbers or physical addresses. They will take your money and never deliver.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

🤠🍻

Me too!

There's a video on KZread where a guy was deer hunting successfully with (his very beautiful I might add!!!) a Smith and Wesson model 57 41 mag!!! It worked a charm!!! His channel is KRAL?!! He certainly has a beautiful revolver, and his handgun hunting content is first rate!!! Sorry for the plug Plowman, I don't even know the guy, but I thought that you'd personally, might like his stuff!!!

@plowboysghost

3 ай бұрын

I'm familiar with that channel and have been subscribed for a while. Thanks!

@Wildwestwrangler

3 ай бұрын

@@plowboysghost ok it's official!!! You're even more awesome than I thought!!! I would love to see you do a 41 mag deer hunting video!!! I only have 44 mag as I don't currently have a reloading set-up. Went down the road with everything else when I became disabled and had spinal surgery. And honestly I am being serious about how cool I think you are, no smoke being blown here my friend!!! I have never been a person that has ever been into celebrities, but I am a big fan of yours!!! I don't care about those Hollywood types, but spending a day with guys like you is what makes life fun!!! My dad and uncles are just like you and so your channel resonates with me!!!

@plowboysghost

3 ай бұрын

@@Wildwestwrangler That us exceedingly kind and generous of you. Thank you. I aim to hunt pretty much exclusively with .41 Magnum, come mid November. I'm trying to decide on whether or not to scope the new 6.5" .41 BH

@Wildwestwrangler

3 ай бұрын

@@plowboysghost I am so looking forward to that 41 mag hunting video!!! I think that 41 BH would be a laser in the accuracy department with a scope!!! I saw a guy just the other day that had a 7.5 inch barrel 41 BH that had a scope on his, and he was laying down 100 yard groups that would rival any rifle!!! He literally shot a 1 inch and 1.25 inch groups!!! Those were the only groups I watched him shoot, and I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it myself!!! I have seen people do that at 50 yards, and do 3 inch groups at 100 yards with a pistol, but never push 1 inch at 100 yards with a normal wheel gun. He had a Leupold 2x6 on his gun.

@Wildwestwrangler

3 ай бұрын

@@plowboysghost he was seriously sandbagged up and had a super solid rest!!!

THE 41 POLICE LOAD 210GR LEAD. AT 950FPS FROM 4INCH MONEL 58. POLICE DEPT DID NOT LIKE PRICE N FRAME VS A 38

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

10-4! Thanks!

@blueduck9409

6 ай бұрын

The 41 colt load was a 200 grain bullet at 900 fps. Elmer Keith talks about the 41 colt in some of his books.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

@@blueduck9409 🤠👍

41 mag- spc police load was not supposed to fall between .357 -44 mag . it was supposed to = .357 with less muzzle blast

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

You know...that sounds right to me, too. Memory and I are having disagreements, lately. Thanks!

So does your shop still have those other 2 boxes for sale?

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

He does.

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Hit me up at plowboysghost at yahoo . com if you want the contact info for the dealer.

❤❤❤

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

Thanks 👍

41spc,41mag = 40s&w,10mm, yes, no?? Please advise!!

@plowboysghost

6 ай бұрын

The differences between .41 Special and .41 Mag seem to be about the same as the difference between original load 10mm and .40 S&W. .41 Special may be similar to .40 S&W power in this loading (albeit with a bigger diameter/heavier bullet in the .41 ), but 10mm doesn't come close to .41 Magnum...unless you're talking the weakest .41 Mag vs. the very hottest 10mm. When loaded to the same relative level of their capabilities, .41 Magnum is way ahead of 10mm...and the margin gets wider as power levels go up. 10mm, ballistically, is closer to .357 Magnum power, and .41 Magnum is closer to .44 Magnum.

problem is.... No such thing as a 41 spl firearm. At this point I can almost hear the outrage!. 'But you can shoot em in 41 mag guns!!!" you can ... not me. Let me explain. I don't shoot 38 spl in my .357 guns I do not shoot 44 spl in my 44 mag guns I don't see the point I do handload tho. I make 2 levels for each of these guns in both those calibers. one about 'spl' +P level You are correct that the 'N' Frame is a pretty useable size but.... There would be nothing to stop making a K frame in 41 spl... even an 'L" frame with a shorter cylinder. Without a dedicated gun to shoot em in there really is no point to a 41 spl unless you just like that ugly ring around the chamber in your 41 mag guns. But....If memory serves... The ammo makers of the time did what I do in that they made a 'police load' in 41 mag It was almost a duplicate of the load you are showing of a 210 lead bullet at around 950fps. in 41 mag brass... Sorta like 45 Colt 'cowboy loads' but....my 45 acp loads are 200 grain cast and coated SWC bullets at +/- 1000 fps And the 45 acp is a very efficient case. The other problem was that the police were transitioning to semi autos and of course the first one cops went to was the 1911 in 45 acp There really wasn't a lot else out there at the time. And the 10 round or less magazine ban later did nothing but make the 1911 more popular. soooo... in..........my..........opinion without a smaller lighter dedicated 41 special handgun? that short case load was doomed

FYI: Alcohol and guns do not mix.