Always anxious to hear about gearbox options. We are long overdue for a widely available alternative to the external, rear wheel mounted powertrains.

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

There's a lot of positives to be had with the Pinion system. But it's not for everyone

I freakin love my Katipo! Awesome to hear your thoughts 🤙

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Another great review mate. And fantastic to see a New Zealand bike feature on your channel 😁. Keep up the brilliant content. For future reference, katipo is pronounced ka-tuh-po. Katipo is the Māori name for a venomous spider that lives around parts of the New Zealand coastline. You came close with taniwha 🙂. Taniwha is pronounced ta-nee-fuh. A taniwha is a water monster in Māori legend. Cheers from Aotearoa NZ!

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Thank you for the kind words and correcting my pronounciation. Duly noted!

@AB-NZ

10 ай бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf to be fair, Māori pronunciation can be very difficult if you’re not familiar with it. I struggle with it. The vowels are quite different to English. And some are long or short. Though English pronunciation is also highly variable across the world and even within the UK!

@dpad_dave

10 ай бұрын

Came her to make this comment cos it hurt my ears every time 😂 I would have thought Zerode would have provided specific info on this, but great review, ka pai 👍

@AB-NZ

10 ай бұрын

@@dezzydiamond7121 Certainly rare nowadays especially due to loss of habitat like dune systems. But the female can bite humans (the male is too small) and cause some pain and some other possible symptoms. Luckily they are not very aggressive so you’d have to be unlucky. I’d rather not get bitten all the same 🤔😏

@dpad_dave

10 ай бұрын

@@dezzydiamond7121 very rare these days, yes, harmful? Depends On your definition of harmful. They won't kill you, but having been bitten by Katipo more than once, I felt harmed alright. Not life threatening, but definitely incredibly painful both at the time of the bite, and for quite a while afterwards.

Great overview of this bike! Heard of it a while ago but hadn't seen many reviews.

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Thank you William!

Oh and you guys are absolutely smashing these videos bro every day dropping them is how you keep ur brand in the game and elevate it to the next level I like that don’t stop the momentum

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

thank you!!

Ive beening riding gates belts for a while and finally getting ready to get a Zerode so thanks for your review. 😊

Ive been working on der bikes for near 30 years finally bought a Katipo last year and I'll NEVER go back to a Der bike the small amount of cons are far out weighed by the PROS of this bike..it has been a dream and changed thew way i ride ...the fully active suspension low mass of the rear end is a different feel and take a minute to get used to but once you do its gold!

Great and very indepth review. Would love to see a review of their new DH bike also since I think thats an awesome use case for a gearbox

Enjoyed the review and the considered comments. Im becoming a fan of the Pinion GB and the new Pinion MGU (motor gearbox eMTB). once that becomes more mainstream I'll be moving over to do away with the RD and the maintenance issues associated. I think you could stress more that the rear wheel lacing is now more even on both sides = stronger wheel as the cassette is gone and a single belt drive wheel is in its place, this allows the drive side lacing to be more outboard and solves the technical issues that wider cassettes impose on the structure. Thumbs up.

Excellent review--thx!!

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Thank you!

I really dig the details of your review! Thanks for that! I would love to see a drop of bb height, price and weight. The silence and maintenance advantages make me wanna have it though ^^ If you keep the bike for a bit longer, I recommend the Bruni levers ;-) Their shape wouldn't interfere with your grip.

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Bike went back to Zerode a while ago, but the Bruni levers would have been a good solution!

Compared to the madness of that automatic shift derailleur system that Shimano is releasing for e-bikes, this feels like the future for me. I'm sure they'll make them progressively better, more affordable and eventually become the norm for mid and high tier bikes. I hope so. Derailleurs and 1x12 have had their day for me. Thanks for the detailed review 👍

@janeblogs324

10 ай бұрын

The new SRAM transmission is the same, it times gear shifts when it suits the cassette, removing your input adding delays

@YCKIDesign

10 ай бұрын

Pinion is now doing a motor and gearbox setup simuler to this gearbox for ebikes. From my digging, rumor has it Zerode may be making an ebike with the pinion system in it. My question is do I get the Taniwah or wait for the ebike version? or do I just get both?

Awesome review! Rob is so damn good at not only articulating his feelings but also being comfortable in front of the camera... not easy. I'm waiting for a gearbox bike that is shifted electronically and the new motor/gearbox unit that is out gives me hope that it is coming in non motor form.

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Rob here - thank you very much! Really appreciate the kind words, but still some work to do. Electronic shifting will for sure be a big leap for the gearbox systems, have to imagine it's in development for the analogue unit. Looking forward to seeing what they come out with in the near future.

@KevinSmithStrikeman

10 ай бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf Electronic shifting with Auto shift (shifts into a starting gear when stopped ect) would be perfect and with a closer ratio box and slightly reduced 1st of course. If they make that I will never ever buy a bike with a derailer again..

@cunning-stunt

10 ай бұрын

@@KevinSmithStrikeman "shifts into a starting gear when stopped" That would do my head in on a mountain bike.

@KevinSmithStrikeman

10 ай бұрын

@@cunning-stunt better than lifting up your rear wheel every time you stop quickly...

@cunning-stunt

10 ай бұрын

@@KevinSmithStrikeman Better to learn to get in the right gear before you stop than do a full pedal swing and end up falling over the bars and smashing your shin with the pedal because you thought you were at the opposite end of the gearing on your way down a track. With a gearbox you don't need to lift and rotate your wheel to change gear anyway, so your comment doesn't even apply.

Really excited to see where these end up. Would love to pull the trigger on one but the geo is needs to catch up

Katipō is better pronounced as Kuhteepoh. The emphasis is on the first and third syllables. Cheers from NZ🇳🇿. P.S. Great explication and explanation of pros and cons. Thank you.

Great informative review! Id be interested see or read a comparison between this and the Effigear equipped Starling Spur you guys had on test!

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Pinion feels like a more refined system, but the Effigear did the job. Starling was longer travel and had considerably more aggressive geometry, giving a much closer to downhill bike feeling.

Can’t wait to see reviews of that new g3. I want it

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

We're very keen to ride it!

Good honest review I’ve been waiting for I like the gearbox bikes the changing gears by itself is a bit confusing but nonetheless its good to see companies pushing technology forward keep up the great work

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Thank you! It's definitely an interesting alternative to the derailleur.

@janeblogs324

10 ай бұрын

Hardly new technology, but the standalone gearbox is $3000. I can buy an entire brand new motorbike with a gearbox for less $

A mate of mine has had a Katipo for over a year now and he raves about it. Hasn't had to touch the drivetrain. He said you get used to the grip shifter and backing off to shift and it's great to be able smash through a whole bunch of gears without pedalling.

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Yes, that grip shifter carries some real benefits after an adjustment period for the rider!

@BlairNZ

10 ай бұрын

I've had mine coming up 18 months and just did my first bit of drivetrain maintenance - a gearbox oil change. These are so different from conventional MTBs that there are numerous things that are perceptivelty better or worse. For me and my style of riding the pros considerably outweigh the cons - and many of the cons were just temporary during the mental shift coming from a traditional bike. Shifting being the big one - took about 2 days and I've preferred it ever since!

@thewaldfe9763

10 ай бұрын

Still hope Pinion will offer a Trigger shifter option in the future, ideally one where you can shift at least 3 gears down with one movement (as e.g. with Shimano shifters)

@streddaz

10 ай бұрын

@@thewaldfe9763 I have heard the electronic shifting is coming to the non motored gearbox. If that’s the case you would be able to use the same thumb shifter.

absolutely love the idea behind gearbox bikes. If i had enough cash id invest heavily as i believe this to be the future.

Most top bikes will have pros and cons. Zerode is no different. It just depends on what you like and dislike. I personally love the pinion & gates combo. A small weight increase and a learning curve for the twist grip. ❤

Good review

@TheLoamWolf

7 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Katipo rider here as well. We're about the same height if anything Rob is a tad taller, I went for the 505. I rode it for a year as is and then put a reach reducer in so I guess it's a 500 now. Probably because I have the bigger size I find it's super stable on fast open sections. Totally agree that just a few tiny changes like a steeper seat tube could bring it bang up to date Also do you have any idea how many miles you put on the gearbox? I agree that there's not that much drag, if any compared to a slightly grimy chain zigzagging up to a 52t but it definitely got better at the 500mile mark which adds up with what pinion claim, a 1000km brake in period. Great review of a great bike!

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Thank you Louis! It’s certainly not far off of being a competitive bike in the market, but would certainly benefit from some small changes to bring it bang up to date. Didn’t precisely log the mileage but I probably hit the 400km mark by the end of testing. Was a fresh box, so certainly still some extra efficiency to come if that 1000km figure is accurate! And wasn’t so bad even out the box.

how does the shorter chainstay impact the internal gear driven setup? curious if any impact at all. Also, how do you change belts, is the rear triangle come apart easily?

Great bike choice for a review

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Thank you Joe, it was an interesting one to test!

I just put one of these on order sight unseen so fingers crossed!!!

Would love to see you guys review the e-pinion motor gear box next😉

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

We'd love to test it too!

Even though you mentioned it’s not an emtb . People are still asking about battery capacity 😂. Very nice in-depth review Robert!

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Haha, maybe it's a joke we didn't get. Thank you, appreciate it!

I wish designers would increase chain stay length to help you climb. The angled seat post pushes your weight backwards over the rear wheel causing your handlebars to lift off when climbing. Love your description about it!

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

It’s tricky, increasing chainstay length doesn’t come without negative impacts to agility on the descents. So, bike designers have to find their ideal compromise.

@skidaddledude1997

10 ай бұрын

That is a tricky problem. It doesn’t help if you can’t get up the hill on that bike ‘cause the the steering is too light.

@thewaldfe9763

10 ай бұрын

And even though I like a light front wheel for pulling it up on descents, too light can be quite dangerous. Had that once: understeer is very unpleasant on a bike...

@thewaldfe9763

10 ай бұрын

@@TheLoamWolfby the way: is the geometry any different on the Trail version of this bike?

I’ve been on a Katipo for 2 years and haven’t thought it through as well as you did in a few weeks. I just ride it and enjoy the bulletproof engineering. Even the shiniest Santa Cruz or a full AXS Revel hold no interest for me anymore. Nevertheless I’d really like an updated chassis with storage, boost, shorter and steeper seat tube, etc…

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Some small updates would make a huge difference for sure - it's solid as it is!

i really am rooting for bicycle gearbox drivetrain to be adopted by more manufacturers, for what it is right now it's just too expensive for me, when the time comes that theyre very common place hopefully they're cheaper to buy and many more shop that can work on them even if supposedly only needed just a regular oil change

gearboxes are the future of mtbs!

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

There's a lot to like about them, but this Pinion system and others have been around for quite a while and there's still no widespread adoption or any offerings by big brands. So perhaps there's a hurdle that can't currently be jumped?

@derDKP

10 ай бұрын

​@@TheLoamWolfmaybe there are IP issues where the big brands can't make them without infringement. Also, think a wireless shifter for it would work to "normalize" the cockpit?

@robhughes645

10 ай бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf let's be honest, the only reason this is not widespread is down to the duopoly of Shimano and SRAM. Internal gearing systems don't need replacing and both these companies make their money selling stuff after it breaks. Imagine the loss in revenue when you're charging hundreds for a good derailleur and group set. The is market way overdue a competitive investigation, both these firms are so intertwined into the entire manufacturing ecosystem that it's almost impossible for anyone else to make a dent without some behind the scenes agreements.

@borismartin

10 ай бұрын

@@robhughes645Spot on.

How do you like the Leatt helmet you are wearing? I’m probably gonna get one soon and I’m just looking for more options on it

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

It's a very solid offering for a convertible helmet. We reviewed it here - theloamwolf.com/2022/02/11/review-leatt-enduro-4-0-convertible-helmet/

Nice bike I would like to see them use the electric shift and auto shift with a gear select digital display.

They need to update the geometry, only thing stopping me from buying one is that seat tube angle and BB height.

Now I want a test of the gearbox version of the kavenz vhp16

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Would be a fun one.

@harrie205

10 ай бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf the kavenz seems like a more modern bike to me than the Zerode and im intereested in an Gearbox bike with Modern Frame design

It is pronounced Ka-tuh-pow. Maori work for a poisonous spider found in the coastal regions of NZ. The 27.5 version Taniwha pronounced ta-nee-fuh, Maori for a Water Monster. Damm nice bikes that ride real sweet.

Is it available in Australia ?

Really interesting review. Lots of unique stuff going on with that bike. One thing that I'm curious with the Pinion system is the engagement. You didn't mention it so it must not have been a huge problem, but I'm wondering if the engagement of both the hub with the engagement of the belt drive would be viable in areas with technical climbs.

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

There's a bit more slack, but we didn't find it unmanageable. High or instant engagement hub will minimize the effects - this had a 88 POE Hope unit fitted.

@willlange9978

10 ай бұрын

Ratcheting through rock step ups is not as good, IMO, but a minor trade off for the other benefits.

Imagine this with a Pinion MGU… world domination!

Would 55. 22 be too hard for single speed dh setup

Can you tell us your height, inseam, and weight? You can't buy these where I live... Most bikes I buy are unseen or demo ridden.

Is the pick up on the gearbox still really slow? Not tried pinion for a good few years but last time I did, I found that clocking the cranks on technical climbs was difficult due to the low POE.

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Wasn't crazy bad, but definitely makes for a slower pickup than a standard hub.

@steveedwards5280

10 ай бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf guess it depends a lot on where you ride but we have a lot of techy rocky climbs. Having said that, the slightly higher bottom bracket would be an advantage

@nickjconnortube

10 ай бұрын

Just spec an instant engagement hub like an onyx. Problem solved.

@steveedwards5280

10 ай бұрын

@@nickjconnortube it's a nice idea but it doesn't solve the problem. There's still 30° of lag on the crankset

Good review. Taniwha pronounced Tanifaa.

Thanks for the review! But what is the motor power output? Battery size? How long does it last?

@TheLoamWolf

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching. Power output is however strong your legs are, battery size is however many burritos or donuts you've eaten and it will last as long as you can make it go! haha. Sorry, we couldn't resist. That's the long way of saying this is not an eBike. But, we appreciate you watching and writing in!

@brunost-amour4561

2 ай бұрын

Oh crap!(talking about burritos powered!) 😅 I thought it was an ebike!! Funny dude! Thanks for the reply! 👍

@TheLoamWolf

2 ай бұрын

You got it! Thanks for having a sense of humor too! 👍😀

@brunost-amour4561

2 ай бұрын

Keep up the good work! ✌️

what does the belt feel like compared to chain? disconnected? or stretchy, mushy? does it feel like the Atomic sprague clutch hub?

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Not stretchy as such, but less jarring when it first engages power to the rear wheel, and smoother overall. Runs very quiet too. Maybe a touch more drag than a chain, though certainly not much if so.

@86309

10 ай бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf thank you

Looks like Dunkeld? Sick place to ride.

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Innerleithen actually, but Dunkeld is very sick too!

This type of drive train makes sense for a dedicated Bike Park/Shuttle steed. Is the 9 speed a little lighter?

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Yes, 9-speed knocks off a reasonable amount of weight. Would take the 12spd every day though for that increased range.

@borismartin

10 ай бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf Where’s the added gears are? On the easier side or down at the harder gears?

@MrChadx1

10 ай бұрын

@@borismartin I have the 9 speed. The 12 speeds extra ratios are all high gears. Climbing gears are no lower (though you could move that by changing the pulleys uses). The main difference is the gap between gears. The 9 speed has gaps of 24% between each gear and the 12 speed is 17% between each gear. On my derailleur bikes, I was usually changing two gears at a time so I went with the 9 speed. Glad I did as the 24% jump is perfect. The 12 speed is recommended for long distance travel, gravel and trail bikes and riding where the terrain changes are more gradual and it's more important to keep your cadence consistent. For all mountain bikes, the 9 speed is great.

@borismartin

10 ай бұрын

@@MrChadx1 Thank you! This info is very helpful.

@thewaldfe9763

10 ай бұрын

According to the Pinion website the difference is only about 100g - so no point going for the 9-Speed except for a lower price probably. The P18 (which Zerode doesn't offer) is considerably heavier though.

We usually lazily pronounce Katipo as "Ka-Da-poh", with the T having a D sound, and each syllable having the same duration. Not "Ka-Teee-poh". A Katipo is a spider by the way. I have both here at home: the bike and the spider!

If I primarily were riding down, it would make more sense. As I am not, there are sadly too many drawbacks. I believe we need at least another 10 years of development before we see something with a lot less drag as well as being lighter.

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Like we said, not convinced that there's a prohibitive level of drag. The slight weight penalty isn't much of an issue either considering where it's located on the bike, but of course lighter would be better given the same durability.

@harrie205

10 ай бұрын

The pinion gearbox is good enough (for enduro and DH). The extra drag is little and offset by dirt/bad maintenance. Also the reduction of unsprung weight gives far superior performance of the rear suspension. The overall weight might be 1kg to 1.5kg higher but thx to ed masters we know how heavy enduro and dh race bikes are and they are fast. IMO the problem now is not the gearbox but the frames(there are not many options (zerode(which seams like an older design), Trinity (quit expensive and very new) and the Brewser(which I don’t know if it’s for sale)(I might have forgotten some) but it’s surely less to chose drone than bikes with an Udh

@a8f235

10 ай бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf Who are *_we?_* I see one person.

@a8f235

10 ай бұрын

@@harrie205 So you are going to assume that everybody who use a conventional drivetrain skip maintenance, and everybody with a gearbox do not... When you think you've heard it all, some monkey make Homer Simpson look smart. My bike is in mint condition before every single ride because it motivates me to use it. Assumptions mostly fail in life...

@KevinSmithStrikeman

10 ай бұрын

@@a8f235 How old is your drive train?

Cat IH po, not Cat Ee po.

WIRELESS SHIFTING!!!!!!!!! Come on pinion

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

It's got to be coming!

Just working out how much I can get for the kids. lol

I have a couple of concerns when it comes to bikes like this. What happens if the motor goes out and stops working and or the chain snaps I know that they have been saying that it has a long lifespan but if it breaks does the company replace it at no cost or do you have to come out of your own pocket cause that can be very costly

@coletrudo

10 ай бұрын

the pinion specifically seems super durable. I saw somewhere that they don't even know how long it will last because after thousands of mile its still going strong. If the chain snaps, idk I'd imagine the same as a chain breaking? you have to buy a new one

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

If the gearbox breaks you can replace it, usually under warranty. And the belt drive is no more expensive to replace than a chain, and seems to be very strong from what we've heard.

@topchoice1621

10 ай бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf oh ok and the belt drive is kinda of like the belts on a car with having to change every 60 to 100,000 thousand miles I’m guessing if that’s the case then it’s very very good hopefully more brands will use the belt drive system or at least make it a option for you to choose depending on what model bike you want that would be great

@benoc9966

10 ай бұрын

@@topchoice1621 it's a gearbox, not a motor for a start. People have broken them, but it's far less likely that smashing your derailleur off.

@topchoice1621

10 ай бұрын

@@benoc9966 I got it

Whats It Weigh ???

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

35.6lbs // 16.15kg

K’tea po ha ha NZ might be the only place that competes with Wales with pronunciation. [Edit] Just got to “tanner-wah”, oh Lordy 😆

Is it difficult to pedal when power is off?

@streddaz

10 ай бұрын

The only power is your legs, it's not an Ebike. 😉

@codefields

10 ай бұрын

​@@streddaz good point I confused it completely with the E1.12 😂

@streddaz

10 ай бұрын

@@codefields yes, it was a bit confusing, as the E1.12 was just released and the Zerode Kapito has been around for a couple of years.

@thewaldfe9763

10 ай бұрын

Pretty sure they will release an ebike version at some point. But Pinion went with just a handful of "launch partners" for the MGU, so it could take a while.

Looks like a session (Capra)

After 3 Zerode contact form enquiries on the official web site and no response. One customer lost here.

No large water bottle = no buy sadly

You lost me 1 min in w/ the grip shifter 🤮

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

That's a shame, it's not that bad.

You didnt mention weight, battery capacity or price (range?) which would have been useful. Otherwise veri insightful review, thank you.

@TheLoamWolf

10 ай бұрын

Weight: 35.6lbs // 16.15kg. Battery capacity: depends on number of jelly babies consumed. Price: €8,395 (appx $9,000) Thanks for watching!

@benoc9966

10 ай бұрын

He opens the video explaining it's not a motor, then people comment asking about battery. Maybe watch the video first?

@danieljames4584

10 ай бұрын

I know it’s slightly funny and sad at the same time 😂😂

Blahblah, pedal kickback? Antisquat? Drivetrain efficiency? Even a 5% reduction in efficiency is painful, pedalkickback helps climbing immensely effectively making it stiffer than a hardtail with an additional 435mm crankarm everytime you bounce while pedaling

@harrie205

10 ай бұрын

Little Troll - no pedal kick back - constant anti squad - 5% under which circumstances, overall drag or only gearbox (made up number?) - you seem not to get how antisquat and pedal kick back works No need to reply little trolling 🤡

so a chain is 98% efficient. a belt is far weaker and absorbs much more power input. it snaps easier and is very easy to get stones and other objects jammed in it. the gripshift is a very poor choice and will put off 99% if buyers. this is not a bad system at all but not developed yet. crying out for hydraulics or a small motor to change gears.