“This can counter itself.” *PTSD of mental misstep one ups manship* “Yes.”

@bruwin

Жыл бұрын

That's why at the end you just mention the Storm count to make your opponent sweat.

@ODST_SSGT

Жыл бұрын

mental misstep is still my fav card.

@tungstenzephyr

Жыл бұрын

@@ODST_SSGT I loved the MM Legacy meta no cap...

@V2ULTRAKill

Жыл бұрын

@@bruwin at the end of the war Flusterstorm

@lostalone9320

Жыл бұрын

Thing is that a good amount of the time, making your opponent fight over a Misstep is actually great for you. In a one-for-one battle, you win by being the proactive player.

I remember when Mental Misstep was released a lot of people were playing it in their decks. I was running a green ramp deck at the time and I played a turn one Birds of Paradise. My opponent immediately used Mental Misstep on it. I however also ran a card called Summoning Trap in my deck. Summoning Trap was cast at instant speed for 4 of any color + 2 Green mana and when cast allowed you to look through the top 7 cards of your library and put a creature from among those cards onto the battlefield and then shuffle the library. But, if any creature spell that I cast was countered on that turn I could then cast Summoning Trap for 0 mana. I had 2 of them in my hand and used both of them which allowed me to get a Primeval Titan and an Emrakul, The Aeons Torn onto the field turn 1. My opponent then forfeit the round and pulled his Mental Missteps out of his deck for some other sideboard cards. I still get a chuckle out of that one.

@joto5459

Жыл бұрын

That is disgusting lmao

@DiminutiveJerry

Жыл бұрын

Activated your trap card

@trveheimer6360

Жыл бұрын

lol green can be degenerate too

@kevinb5417

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like he made a mental misstep.

@joto5459

Жыл бұрын

@@kevinb5417 take your damn like

The fact that he stumbled on one, and it was YAWGMOTH'S BARGAIN, I feel like the text on the card is so powerful he reverse psychology-d himself into thinking you must have been pulling some kind of 3000IQ trick.

@evernewb2073

Жыл бұрын

kinda: it's so blatantly game breaking that he couldn't convince himself they would ever print something like that unless it was basically impossible to actually play it, and to be fair enchantments are probably the hardest cards to cheat out. There is a reason that there are several cards that just straight up say "you win the game" or "you can not loose the game" that still manage to suck. ...in a lot of ways survival of the fittest seems even better though: it's not as blatantly [play card = win game] but it's a classic case of a card being designed with a "cost" that's at least as beneficial as the intended payout.

@crushedscouter9522

Жыл бұрын

My thoughts exactly

@GMontag

Жыл бұрын

@@evernewb2073 Enchantments may be the hardest to cheat out, but Yawgmoth's Bargain was printed in the *same set* as Academy Rector. And even then, that path only became useful once all the absurdly fast artifact mana ramp got banned.

@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917

Жыл бұрын

@@evernewb2073 What I was thinking about is a somewhat similar card in Yu-Gi-Oh that is never played. Tongue Twister. It's a card that lets you draw 2 cards, but the condition of needing to tribute summon the card and then get rid of it makes it kinda bad. There are actually a lot of Yu-Gi-Oh cards that make you draw cards, but most of them (like, 95%) have cards that make them not worth the effort in a normal game. That's why Exodia decks are able to have 35 different cards that allow them to draw more cards in them, yet those decks are considered bad but fun on a casual level.

@evernewb2073

Жыл бұрын

@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 yep! it's pretty much exactly that in a nutshell, card draw isn't quite so utterly broken in MTG because of the resource economy being, well, more like an economy than a sequence chain but draw is still powerful enough for 1 life = 1 card to be WAY to good a bargain for you to believe there isn't some kind of catch even before you stick it in a deck that just straight up wins as soon as you have a couple specific cards in your hand, even worse they printed it in the element with the best options for cheezing it out _and_ abusing it once you have it. the card looks like someone either accidentally printed a joke card or made some bad decisions after getting through a 20 hour day at the office with the help of their secret stash and doubled down _hard_ when a playtester tried to bring it to attention. to use your example imagine how much better those exodia decks would be if you could just pay a thousand life points to draw a card any time you like as many times as you like, heck, half the decks that use this in MTG include ways for paying that life to be a _bonus_ so half the time all they actually want the card for is to instantly bring their life total down to their ideal because they already have a win condition on the field, drawing a handful of counterspells and a secondary win condition at the same time is just a bonus.

Fun fact: in the last issue of The Duelist magazine that was printed, which coincided with the release of Urza's Destiny, they had a tentative list of "top 10 cards from the set". Yawgmoth's Bargain took first, AND second place. Because it was too good for "just" first place.

@bobzour

Жыл бұрын

Either TCG Player or CFB did something similar in a video when Khans block was rotating out. 3rd place was Siege Rhino, 2nd place was Fetch lands, 1st place was the second Siege Rhino.

@mattfenner7824

Жыл бұрын

@@bobzour I believe it was CFB! Pretty sure LSV was in it, talking about cards they won’t miss after rotation, and yeah, number one was specifically “the *second* siege rhino”

@AIMLESS-NAMELESS

Жыл бұрын

@@bobzour I think it’s a cfb MTG top 8

@maileesaeya3614

Жыл бұрын

@@bobzour I remember when Dragons of Tarkir and Magic Origins were rotating, LSV did an article with images of major cards rotating, and Collected Company was in there four times.

@ozfan6

Жыл бұрын

@@maileesaeya3614 What? why would LSV care about bant company rotating? it's not like he ever did anything with that deck......

Extremely Impressed by him so quickly honing in on exactly what happened with Misstep, spot on.

@sirsimon6562

Жыл бұрын

Yes! However i am supprised they did not mention, that with the alternative cost, it can be played in any deck regardless the color!

@sanstheskeleton679

Жыл бұрын

You can easily see a train wreck if you thrive in an environment full of train wrecks

@robinlinh

Жыл бұрын

@T.J. Johnson I immediately thinking about Solemn another Solemn

@jimmysalmeron5292

Жыл бұрын

@@sirsimon6562 it happened in yugioh with crossout designator, low cost but going second you can set and crossout a crossout to get out of a bind

@QuantemDeconstructor

Жыл бұрын

@T.J. Johnson one of the counters to Maxx "C" being activating your own to lock your opponent out of it IIRC

13:07 tfw a Yu-Gi-Oh Player understands "Reading the card explains the card" better than most Magic players LOL

@dimmusdongus6596

Жыл бұрын

magic players seem way more likely to take design truisms like that for granted rather than thinking them through and applying them

@r3zaful

Жыл бұрын

I mean i can understand every single card game in the market(hs, lor etc but i mostly play weiss and yugioh irl because the demographic here force me to do it) but i somehow still need an emulators to determine how an effect resolve in yugioh negate faceup etc. Show how stupidly annoying yugioh rulings are, but it is so satisfying when i pull it off, like i summoned Lonefire Blossom(im playing rikka irl) through living fossil and activate its effect, then my opponent poker facing my play unknowingly that's a legal move lmao.

@bluehabs

Жыл бұрын

Ironically, neither of them read lol

@arielgomes7989

Жыл бұрын

Nah Yugioh players are infamous for not reading the cards, lol. But to be fair, every card is a book nowdays

@saphired02

Жыл бұрын

To be fair a lot of Yu-Gi-Oh cards I've seen look like a novel with all the words. Although MTG is getting there. we're just not used to a lot of text.

Impressed by his evaluation of Misstep, because he nailed the exact reason why it's toxic. He wins pretty hard for just that take, in my opinion 👍

@PersonaPrime

Жыл бұрын

Yugioh has a lot of cards like that and they are not even banned, so we are used to them 😂

@CxOrillion

Жыл бұрын

I feel like he shouldn't have gotten the point if only because "really good" is just off by orders of magnitude lol. It's pretty rare that a card breaks Standard, Modern, and Legacy all at once. Even though, if I'm remembering correctly, Modern didn't exist quite yet when this card dropped.

@leaffinite2001

Жыл бұрын

@@CxOrillion thats not how the rules of the game work tho lmao

@researchinbreeder

Жыл бұрын

​@@CxOrillion But if the game worked like that and the degree mattered, his line of thought led him basically to the doorstep of saying it's banworthy. It wasn't him underrating the card, it was just a turn of phrase.

@ChouRaiyuki

11 ай бұрын

@@researchinbreeder Plus the moment he said "it enters a toxic area" he was in the right magnitude anyway

I love that he refers to a search card as a "tutor", which just shows Magic's historic influence on all card games

@CardmarketMagic

Жыл бұрын

Yu-Gi-Oh players even use mill 😅 and they don't know why

@lostalone9320

Жыл бұрын

Thing is that a lot of these game-actions are used in multiple games and kinda demand a proper one word term to describe them. Tutoring and milling are useful verbs that replace longer sentences.

@mrmoosetachio

Жыл бұрын

@@lostalone9320 sure. But they come specifically from Magic cards. Hence OPs comment....

@IamGrimalkin

Жыл бұрын

I heard tutor was a reference to a magic card but I don't know what it actually does. But in the past when I heard people mention 'tutor', they were talking about special summoning from deck, not searching? What does it actually do?

@fionathegayesttiefling9867

Жыл бұрын

@@IamGrimalkin In the very first set of Magic, they printed a black card called Demonic Tutor that looked through your library for any card and put it in your hand. Not having been around back then, I can't tell you if that immediately became the name for deck searching effects or if it took until the printing of things like Enlightened Tutor, Mystic Tutor, and Vampiric Tutor (respectively, searched enchantments and artifacts, instants and sorceries, and anything but cost 2 life) to solidify that name for the effect. Importantly those 3 instead of putting it in your hand, put it to the top of your library, thus any deck searching effect became known as a tutor, no matter where the card ended up. Even cards like Buried Alive that send it to your graveyard, are known as tutors (although the actual action of doing it is sometimes called entombing, named after the 1 mana spell that does it).

I like it better when you show in the bottom of the screen the rated cards and how the guest is doing, but very fun series!

The other thing about Mental Misstep to make it the ultimate staple is that it's effectively colourless. Literally every deck could play it when it was legal, because they can pay the 2 life instead of the blue mana.

@annaxuldraugworc7832

Жыл бұрын

In Yugioh we have a card called Solemn Judgement with the activation cost of half the current life point and is still played constantly in many decks, seeing the cost of 2 lives for a disruption is definitely a broken effect

@HomeCookinMTG

Жыл бұрын

Yeah both this and probe were a problem. You didn't really have a 60 card deck, you had a 52 card deck with four probes and 4 missteps.

@OriginalMokthol

Жыл бұрын

White finally had a decent counterspell and it was a blue card

@Keated

Жыл бұрын

And because you could, you effectively had to

@RoxyGotMoxy.

Жыл бұрын

@@OriginalMokthol hey, dont you dare disrespect mana tithe like that. 😋 Mana tithe is a G.O.A.T!

When he realized "Misstep your misstep" was a play I couldn't help but say, out loud, HE SAW THE LINE. But yeah, unless you weren't playing 1-mana spells you played misstep, if only to protect you from everyone else's missteps

@jeffe2267

Жыл бұрын

really makes you wonder how it got past playtesting lol

Equipments are super hard to evaluate. They would work as great bait in this series!

@elitebuster2012

Жыл бұрын

Oh yeah, and Stoneforge Mystic

@monkfishy6348

Жыл бұрын

@@elitebuster2012 There's absolutely no way he'd fall for Stoneforge. Cheating things out of the Deck for cheap, is universally a good effect, especially when it's coming off a cheap monster/creature.

@VixenIcaza

Жыл бұрын

Maybe do a "swords special" fire & ice, feast and famine, and the world ender type one that looked powerful but was a bit crap.

@ThePigKnight

Жыл бұрын

Just use CAWBlade cards. It’s a hard deck to pilot and not everything is clearly powerful.

@williamsmith9510

Жыл бұрын

I think goblin guide is a perfect card to try and throw someone off as well

I still remember the few short weeks Mental Misstep wasn't banned in Legacy, & man did I freaking hate that format. I had to find 4 cards to pull from my U/R Painted Stone deck just to mainboard 4 x Missteps to prepare for the inevitable counter war 😅 Crazy how that card made it through testing when everyone knew the minute they saw it how it would play out! Even a non-MTG player spotted it within a minute of talking about the card aloud!

@DiminutiveJerry

Жыл бұрын

Really was a misstep for wotc yeah

@orga7777

Жыл бұрын

Easy to spot. Yugioh does stupid crap like that all the time. lol

@dstreetz91

Жыл бұрын

They mostly thought oh phyrexian mana can't be that good right? Right? Wrong, you basically printed a modern day urza block set in new phyrexia considering how many cards got played because they had phyrexian mana. Like you have to wonder how they thought something innocuous like gitaxian probe was fine.

2:40 Despite declaring it a staple, they UNDERRATE this card. I started playing Magic in '97. Survival of the Fittest released in '98 with Exodus. It was the primary card in the '98 World Championship deck. Certainly the creatures of the time were trash tier compared to modern Magic--Serra Angels, a staple of the series since release, were removed from 5th Edition for being 'far too powerful'--but even with that in mind, this card allowing you to fill your hand and graveyard with any creatures of your choice for very cheap made it quite broken even at the time.

@dstreetz91

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, there was even a block deck that used survival called recsur because recurring nightmare was in the same block and oh man was recsur degenerate when you got the engine rolling. It was a slow grind, but it got lots of card advantage going to the point opponents couldn't keep up at all while fogging with spike weaver, gaining life with spike feeder, or pounding your face in with that card that spawns a 1/1 every turn to feed the recurring nightmare and was also a big beatstick. I remember legacy with the card, it was crazy what it could do at the end before the axe came down and now it could do even more of course just getting better with each set usually.

@darrenfrigon2368

Жыл бұрын

@@dstreetz91 I had the gold-border Recurring Survival WC deck and it took me a while to figure out how it worked (couldn't just look it up on the internet at the time), but once it clicked, that was a super fun deck to play. It was pretty busted then, but would be absolutely broken with today's pool of cards.

A- I love he realized it can counter itself. And B- I just love this series haha.

@karfsma778

Жыл бұрын

Monogreen running missteps to misstep their opponent's missteps on their elves

@joshuaspector8182

Жыл бұрын

@@karfsma778 yep! Every deck period! 😒😒

Being a Yu-Gi-Oh! Player who doesn't know anything about magic, it was very fun and interesting to watch it from the opposite prospective! It sounds way harder when you don't know the game 🤣

@MrBrownLostHisM00

Жыл бұрын

I’ve watched a lot of these from the MTG perspective but I just watch these two evaluating YGO cards and I can confirm. My head was absolutely spinning.

@Grooveworthy

Жыл бұрын

Yugioh players make really good magic players. I don't play it, but some of the strongest players I know came from yugioh.

Welp in Yugioh we have a card called Solemn Judgement, which allows us to yeet a card activation clean with the cost of half a life point and it's still super good ,so seeing mental mistep only cost 2 lives for a effect of disruption I instantly thought it was a staple

@cephery8482

Жыл бұрын

Tbf it’s not quite that. It’s a much more limited range you can use it on, like a judgement for 800 but you can only use it on a normal summoned monsters effect. But that judgement is also a handtrap that counters itself.

@lawtonadams4235

Жыл бұрын

Like solemn warning where its nore limited but only 2000 life which while not a staple did see a bunch of play back when traps were viable

Gauging strength in resource based games can be tricky specifically for Yu-Gi-Oh players who aren't used to costs just being part and parcel of a card doing anything, and expect insanely fast-paced interactions.

Card suggestions: Chains of Meph (not-errated printing) - Might as well give the YGO player a YGO card Endurance Dragon's Rage Channler Golgari Grave Troll Living End

@Hanmacx

Жыл бұрын

Green Slime "Counter target ability, and if you do, destroy that card" And it's already a yugioh card xD

@SimicFishCrab

Жыл бұрын

Aetherling

@DL23a

Жыл бұрын

Just show him a card with banding.

@alexanderjackson7948

Жыл бұрын

Yugioh doesn't actually have many cards like Chains of Mephistopholes, it very much functions with mtg logic, where the cards bend the rules. The yugioh equivalent of this card would be "small world": It's complicated to use, but what it does is let you go minus one to search any monster, so long as your deck is set up right.

@ccggenius

Жыл бұрын

@@alexanderjackson7948 It's about the paragraphs of text to adequately describe something very simple, not the effect itself.

Another thing that I think makes Undergrowth Champion pretty bad is the amount of removal that doesn't care about doing damage, potentially a lot of wasted set up just to get destroyed or exiled.

An episode about limited cards would be great. Cards like Goblin Shortcutter from ZDR or Imperial Oath from NEO is a great way to look at another side of MtG.

I love these staple or stinker videos. I have been getting more and more into Flesh and Blood and would enjoy seeing some of the players try to evaluate cards for that game, too.

Listening to him explain exactly why the bargain is one of the most busted cards ever then decide it was a stinker had me dying!

This is pretty great content. Some suggestions for future episodes: Darksteel Relic Curse of Silence Mind Swords Meddling Mage Jace, Wielder of Mysteries Kappa Cannoneer

@QuantemDeconstructor

Жыл бұрын

Be really funny to see a card like Norin the Wary and Dark Depths on here

I saw the video from the Yugioh channel yesterday... and as a magic player I was shocked how much this game could be difficult if you're out of the loop with a game. Cool content, keep going!

Cards, that you should include: Memory Jar, Nethershadow, Despotic Scepter, Maze of Ith, Minion of Leshrac

@Weber1998Be

Жыл бұрын

Sword of the Meek

MtG is tough to do this with imo. Different formats value cards differently. What might be good in standard isn't necessarily good in modern or legacy, but could be godlike in commander.

@dyrnwynski

Жыл бұрын

Yeah it becomes difficult to say what it means to be a good card. Notice in this video every staple is vintage playable and every stinker didn't make the cut in standard, which makes it hard to argue they don't fit those categories but gives a pretty high delta in power level.

@JpegDog

Жыл бұрын

Is there a format where Mental Misstep isn’t good? As a Yugioh player who’s only experience with Magic at all is the starter deck in MTG Arena, I think that card is insane no matter the format

@feral_orc

Жыл бұрын

​@@JpegDog It's effectively banned in any format that matters

@dyrnwynski

Жыл бұрын

@@JpegDog yes actually. It was not good in standard when it was printed and wouldn't be today. Standard is low enough power level that 1 mana cards just aren't that common.

@ZaberFangAT

Жыл бұрын

@@JpegDog It's probably at it's worst in Commander purely because of the amounts of mana used in that format. Even then, it still has its uses because people play cards like Sol Ring, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, etc (especially since the 2 life is even more negligible when you're starting at 40 instead of 20). It's the only format it's fully legal in, but I can't think of any time I've ever seen it played there.

Definitely one of my top 3 favorite series you guys do

Undergrowth Champion was bad because cards that say "destroy" or "exile" don't do damage, and they're far more common than cards that do, and it's too slow to be consistent in the combat step, it was often just blocked by bigger things.

@bouboulroz

Жыл бұрын

Also you *had* to prevent the damage, even if it wasn't enough to kill it. That made it easy for yoyr opponent to set it up for a blast spell.

@justavictim9432

Жыл бұрын

Had Champion had hexproof it would have been very very good and honestly not back breaking

@sorcdk2880

Жыл бұрын

Another option would be if it had trample, because then you would not be able to chump block it, and all those +1/+1 counters making it huge would actually allow it to do damage.

@UmeII

Жыл бұрын

@@justavictim9432 Even with Hexproof, I don't think it would have been great. If it had both some form of Evasion AND some form of removal protection (beyond preventing damage) it might have been decent.

@justavictim9432

Жыл бұрын

@@UmeII I mean yeah if it had evasion too it would be strong but Champion would have been a staple in Pioneer ramp as is because that is more of a control deck that wants to hit land drops and have chump blockers.

Actually if Thoralf hadn't talked Adam out of ihis mind when it came to evaluate Yawgmoth's Bargain, Adam would have found all of them.

@DaybreakKingTrue

Жыл бұрын

Reminding someone about the resource system isn't talking someone out of their decision.

@Lightning_Lance

Жыл бұрын

That's kinda true, but also the point of having him evaluate that card was to see if 6 mana was worth such an obviously broken effect or if you could cheat it out, not for him to go "oh the effect is broken" and not think about the mana cost

I've watched a lot of videos like this... and 16:39 is probably my favorite moment in any of them. Kudos on recognizing the counterwar potential.

Here are some other hard to evaluate cards for him to evaluate: 1) Mindslaver 2) Gitaxian Probe 3) Yawgmoth, Thran Physician 4) Chaos Warp 5) Armageddon 6) Jace, Unraveler of Secrets

@thomasestling3400

Жыл бұрын

Yawgmoth is so hard to understand, even for magic players

@theprogressivecynic2407

Жыл бұрын

@@thomasestling3400 Exactly. People sometimes don't think it's all that good, and then they play against somebody using him in EDH and get blown out with an undying and/or Nest of Scarabs loop.

@garrettneary3755

Жыл бұрын

I could really see someone being g thrown by Gitaxian Probe. It's not very evident how good of a cantrip it is.

@retronymph

Жыл бұрын

@@theprogressivecynic2407 Feel like Yawg is kinda cheap. It's a fine creature without the existence of Undying but probably wouldn't see play, and if you look at it without knowing the existence of the mechanic Undying you can't really fairly evaluate it

@graaaghghg

Жыл бұрын

@@retronymph even then theres a decent amount of other graveyard recursion that would make it pretty good

I love MTG and have a pretty casual interest in Yugioh, so seeing content like this is always very fun

I loved this guy on Staple VS Stinker while rating Yugioh Cards, glad to see him again!

Only now watching this do I realize that the double faced cards where you pick a side to play are basically pendulum monsters in Yu-Gi-Oh, where you choose whether you play it as a monster or a spell.

@ant-onemusic444

Жыл бұрын

I mean that's a stretch

@SKKaelth

Жыл бұрын

@@ant-onemusic444 just a little bit

@paxpacis2

Жыл бұрын

As a non Magic player Pendulum cards were the first thing I was thinking off too. Instantly thought "So basically works like a Pendulum card"

@Aquilenne

Жыл бұрын

Out of curiousity, do they still count as both types while in the GY for stuff like Delerium or Tarmogoyf?

@owenwells7692

Жыл бұрын

@@Aquilenne as far as I know they count as the front face while in the grave, so in Cosima's case he would count as the creature side.

YGO player here with almost no Magic experience - this was a really fun video! I judged every card based on whether or not I thought it would be good in YGO and I got the same answers. Yawgmoth's Bargain was a tricky one because the effect is obviously insane, but I didn't know if any ways to cheat the cost existed (was getting Heart of the Underdog or Supply Squad vibes). Also, I had no idea that Magic cards could have two sides and my mind has been completely blown away by that concept. I also watched the opposite version of this on the YGO channel and it was really neat to see the other perspective. Love this content, hope there's more in the future.

@CardmarketMagic

Жыл бұрын

There will definitely be more on both channels 🙂

I really want to see how a Yu-Gi-Oh player would react to cards like Relentless Rats or Shadowborn Apostle, even if they are easy to evaluate

@rustycox7741

Жыл бұрын

Yu-Gi-Oh player here, dabble in Magic now and then. Relentless Rats seems better than Shadowborn Apostle because it’s just a flat boost to your other rats, Apostle probably isn’t going to activate it’s effect during a game. The effect of being allowed any number of those cards in a deck is very funny, Digimon has similar cards, I don’t think Yugioh could have a card with that effect without making it very bad

@ich3730

Жыл бұрын

@@rustycox7741 They both never saw any tournament play. But they DO have some really fun EDH decks

@HomeCookinMTG

Жыл бұрын

@@rustycox7741 apostle is actually better due to combo potential because of the card edge Walker. At least IMO. The only thing that relentless rats can really combo off with is thrumming Stone

@IamGrimalkin

Жыл бұрын

As a yugioh player: MTG has no zone limits, right? So you could summon a load of Relentless Rats and use them to OTK? Like you might do with Numeron in yugioh? (Although this kind of card would never be printed in yugioh, you can't even play 4 different Umi retrains).

@chuckwagon3718

Жыл бұрын

​@@IamGrimalkinYes, Magic has no zone limits, so in theory you could storm off to play a ton of rats, but they have summoning sickness and can't attack because they don't have haste, meaning you need to pass turn to your opponent, who could wipe your whole board and leave you with nothing. The rats also cost three mana each, which is awkward because it means you normally can't cast two of them a turn until turn 6, which is very late, plus you have to actually draw all of them. Obviously you can build your deck to give your rats haste and draw more cards and make more mana, but now you're diluting your rats with a bunch of other pieces just to make them playable (and spending more mana to do it). It's just too much work for a mediocre payoff. If you're already building your deck to include massive mana generation or infinite mana and tons of card draw, you want a wincon that wins the game on the spot with a single card, instead of trying to cast a bunch of rats. Something like Tendrils of Agony would be a much better choice; even mana-intensive Storm wincons like Mind's Desire or Dragonstorm are more efficient. Compare also to cards like Empty the Warrens or Chatterstorm, which will also make a huge board of creatures but do so when you cast just one copy of that card, so you don't need to draw as well and can do it earlier because you don't need to have as many cards or as much mana available to get your reward. Honestly, Relentless Rats seems better played fairly to apply pressure in a grindy midrange strategy, but even there and even sticking just to the Rat creature type, you'd be better off playing Pack Rat along with cards you could discard for value and removal.

I love this type of series! I love seeing people make informed guesses and seeing if they get them right while I already know the answer.

I actually like seeing things like this as it show the balance between both games. I've played both games and can tell you it's always nice to see people look at the other game and get a solid grasp on the mindset of somethings.

Love this series! One thing I think should be mentioned just as background info to help out is the distinction between /playing/ a land and having a land enter the battlefield. It seemed like at times he was evaluating some of the cards (Cosima, Undergrowth Champion) by thinking of the land effect as only happening once per turn because you're only allowed to /play/ one land per turn (unless a card like Explore etc. lets you do otherwise). But of course decks with green in them can easily be putting out 3 or 4 per turn with good ramp. I realize fetches were mentioned, but other ramp stuff wasn't. Cheers!

These are fun to watch. Thanks for making and sharing the guessing if cards are good episodes! Would be cool to see him do a draft in mtg arena or something, not knowing the meta

Ah yes, mental misstep, the miniature force of will. The phyrexian set made a lot of interesting decisions.

I feel like dredge cards would potentially be difficult to see the power of. Lions eye diamond is another example of a broken card that is hard to evaluate at first glance. Sensei’s divining top would probably be easier to figure out it was at least good, but I imagine it would be hard for someone to recognize just HOW good it really is.

@empty5013

Жыл бұрын

i think anyone who reads LED would say its strong because its so suspiciously hard to use.

@Doct0rLekter

Жыл бұрын

@@empty5013 I don’t know this would look any better to an MTG noob than something like One With Nothing.

@TheJohtaja

Жыл бұрын

@@empty5013 Somewhat on the contrary, initially people thought LED's drawback was impossible to circumvent and the card was useless.

@empty5013

Жыл бұрын

@@TheJohtaja it kinda was until cards came about that can abuse it and rules changes took place that made it more usable

@dstreetz91

Жыл бұрын

LED at first was...bad. Even though demonic tutor existed there wasn't storm cards printed yet. It only took a few years for it to reach oh this is just flatout broken though when burning wish was released into the world and vintage got the 4 burning wish 4 LED with yawg's win in the sideboard, wheel of fortune, timetwister, all sorts of silly stuff ensued.

Other yugioh player here, this was a lot of fun to play along with. I knew Survival of the fittest was insane because I play Dragon Ravine in my deck which works similarly, but I have to loop the card to re-use it. This seemed so nutty.

as a YGO player, getting 5/5 felt pretty good 😎 fun content! the card with more text on the back reminded me of pendulum monsters having a second text box and being overly complicated lol

I can tell this guy is very intelligent and analytical by his thought process spoken out loud. It's always fun to see these videos.

@Nalianna

Жыл бұрын

it's exactly why i like watching him talk. This is some of the best content.

Would love to see cards that can break Yu-Gi-Oh like sensei's divining top or cards that are so weird like gitrog monster and just bad stuff like Aurelia's fury

@arielgomes7989

Жыл бұрын

Kinda hard to evaluate what would "break yugioh" since magic cards are balanced around mana which yugioh doesnt have. A lot o cards would break yugioh if they didnt have mana costs. Most draw spells would

@fredrikfagerberg6783

Жыл бұрын

The equivalent of Stupor and Act of Treason (and of course divination) are banned in YGO. Not having a mana system wildly alters the power level of noncreatures

@alexryu2632

Жыл бұрын

@@fredrikfagerberg6783 You're absolutely correct on these points, but we did get the Act of Treason equivalent back last banlist, and it's seen no play due to the current speed of the game (Not discounting Change of Heart's history of course, it's just too likely to be prime negation-bait in most matchups to be worth running the one copy in your deck)

The omenkeel is terrible in standard but amazing in EDH. It's a great feeling when the rest of your tables eyes pop out their sockets when you exile the top 17 cards of someones deck and now you'll never miss a land drop. The keyword here is the omenkeel says when a vehicle does damage not when it deals damage.

@CardmarketMagic

Жыл бұрын

Every card can be great in the right EDH deck 😉 for the purposes of these series, we pretend EDH doesn't exist and focus on the 60-card formats

I like that the Yu-Gi-Oh player was talking about the Pot of [whatever] being $100, and my man starts with a $250 card.

Since he is still learning how to evaluate the mana resource system, I'd love to see a "rocks & rituals" episode!

I really like these videos where people accustomed to one card game evaluate cards from other games. I play magic, yugioh, and Pokémon tcg and I’ll keep watching these vids.

I love this series!!! Even on the other channel! Please do more of this.

Can't get enough of this style of video.

I think the reason why Adam had a somewhat easier time guessing Magic cards is that Magic is actually still relatively within the realm of sanity, while YGO is just so insane that anyone coming from outside is just left just speechless.

@Lightning_Lance

Жыл бұрын

these cards were also pretty easy choices imo (although Undergrowth Champion was a bit more difficult to evaluate compared to Tarmogoyf, but he wouldn't know about Tarmogoyf so...)

Some fun cards to evaluate. Yagmoth’s will, painter’s servant necropotence, helm of obedience, life from the loam, maze’s end.

@profoundd

Жыл бұрын

+1 for necropotence, back why Scrye used to rate the cards it was a 1 out of 5. It took what felt like forever in the pre-dojo days for the world to learn how broken it was.

@jakubfabisiak9810

Жыл бұрын

they did Necro

I love this. Seeing analysis getting carried from game to another is super interesting.

Even in early Magic, Survival was a good card, pro tour top 8-ing even. Survival + Recurring Nightmare was a core to a very old pro tour deck.

@nekrataali

Жыл бұрын

Turns out dumping a Spirit of the Night into play for 3 mana was really good lul.

@HomeCookinMTG

Жыл бұрын

It's not just a good card in early magic. It's still insane now there's a reason it's banned in legacy lol.

As a former yugioh player who started playing magic this is awesome and I love it so much. The yugioh video was awesome too

To think that Yawgmoth's Bargain was a "fixed" version of Necropotence lmao

Your explanation of mental misstep reminds me of that grass looks greener in yugioh. It was warping the format where everyone has to play suboptimal large decks of 60 cards just cuz that card existed. The ideal deck size is usually the minimum 40 cards.

Love this series! Keep it up!

I'm pretty familiar with Magic in general, I've played on and off at times over the years since Ice Age. But, I have not been in the know on current meta in at least 10 years probably at this point beyond the occasional video like this or whatever and there are lots of holes in my timeline prior to that as well. So often as not I'm seeing these cards for the first time as well and I'm pretty good at assessing their play value but I always feel uncertain until they say haha. Great series.

Love this type of video, keep going boys

I don't play either game, but the general theory discussion makes these videos really interesting

I like the more qualified/educated guesses on this genre! Great video!

@CardmarketMagic

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed!

Very entertaining content. Please more of this.

I love this series a lot.

I love Thoralf's energy! Great vid!

@CardmarketMagic

Жыл бұрын

The best!

I love his revelation about Mental Misstep, lol. We're all like "bingo!" 😂

I feel like the second card could be useful in a deck that has Apocalypse(its been a while might be the wrong name, exiles all permanents) along with locating spells and damage spells because having a creature racking up points after taking out potentially a really synergistic combo could very well be really good. I could be dumb though idk.

@DiminutiveJerry

Жыл бұрын

I think just use suspend tho

Awesome video, nice hosts, I don't miss an episode.

Good stuff! I really enjoy this format. More Thoralf pls!

I love this. Do more!

For mental misstep, since it has pherexian mana, you can play it in any deck regardless of colour

@Nalianna

Жыл бұрын

Mono grenn vs Mono white.... forest, llanowar elf, go... plains, savannah lions? *green player - No!, misstep*

another thing about bargain is turbo naus type setups in commander. hit bargain turn three, draw your tutors, and blammo

It'd be fun to show him an on-rate 2-4 drop beater that actually did just happen to be good enough for standard, like Mantis Rider or Spawn of Mayhem.

@CC-oi9mc

Жыл бұрын

Thundering Raiju is good rn

These are really entertaining! keep up the great content!

@CardmarketMagic

Жыл бұрын

Thanks, will do!

As someone who came around from the beginning of magic Loved both infinite living death and rec/sur Survival has a special place in my heart ❤

Really cool video, will like to see Fact or Fiction and Norin the wary be evaluated

Jackal Pup would be a fun trick card to talk about, especially with its interraction with Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargain historically

Mental mistep reminds me of crossout designator. I've seen people playing 2 of it so they could use crossout designator on crossout designator.

@PersonaPrime

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, you gotta play at least 2 copies. This is why it got limited to 1 in Master Duel. Because they wanted to stop that interaction you mentioned.

love the stonkers and stinkers

Maybe Vexing Devil, Library of Alexandria, Niv-Mizzet Reborn and Thousand-Year Storm could be interesting to evaluate :)

Another thing with misstep is that it gives counter magic to every colour. While usually spells that say "coubter target spell" with very few conditions are only in blue

Came here from the Yu-Gi-Oh channel, loving this cross game/player content.

One thing that wasn't hammered home enough with Phyrexian mana is that you can slam them in ANY deck. Can be super powerful. I do like these videos a lot. Maybe you could touch on stuff like tribes and wild mechanics like infect or miracle.

No Magic player can ever make fun of Yu-Gi-Oh cards for being overcomplicated walls of texts after having now witnessed Cosima.

4:00 "Take evasive action! It's a trap!"

Another wonderful game of "Which Piece of Cardboard is best?". I'd be struggling with the Yugioh cards. This is not a game to get over emotional about, it's entertaining.

Esper Greaseflayer (Pioneer) X4 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn X2 Nighthawk Scavenger X4 Striped Riverwinder X4 Greasefang, Okiba Boss X4 Soulflayer X4 Parhelion II X3 Tainted Indulgence X4 Faithfull Mending X4 Consider X4 Otherworldly Gaze X2 Thoughtseize X1 Collective Brutality X1 Island X4 Mana Confluence X3 Concealed Courtyard X4 Hallowed Fountain X3 Drowned Catacomb X3 Watery Grave X1 Glacial Fortress X1 Godless Shrine Sideboard: X1 Swan Song X2 Vanishing Verse X2 Thoughtseize X2 Dovin’s Veto X4 Portable Hole X4 Spell Pierce

4:1 so proud of you Adam! Great Job! nice Video!

@CardmarketMagic

Жыл бұрын

Yay, thank you!

"Mental Misstep" is a good description about the designers who thought that card was a good idea.

MY FAVORITE SERIES IS BACK!!!

Here’s some suggestions for cards to do in this series! •Dress Down •Fury •Narset Transcendent •Manaplasm •Chandra, Flamecaller

@jbradentraw2083

Жыл бұрын

And Umezawa’s Jitte!

@Xhadp

Жыл бұрын

I would also put Narset, Enlightened Master on there as well.

@andrewallstar2719

Жыл бұрын

@@jbradentraw2083 They already did that for one of these

@ildlyn8966

Жыл бұрын

i downvoted you.

Favourite video format !

13:15 “garbágio stats” 😂😂😂

Would love to see more cards that are really good, but only in one format like Commander staples because of the multiple opponents aspect.

With the new elrond drops from the lotr set, that undergrowth champion seems legit. Giving it 3-5 +1/+1 counters every turn seems good.

“That was my generous offer” this is my generous gift!

These videos are very fun; I'd love to see MTG players rate classic YGO cards as well as opposed to modern stuff.

@CardmarketMagic

Жыл бұрын

Cool idea!