The section in the video about "how photographers see things"......AMEN. We are our worst critics and others never see it. A perfect example of this is the public acceptance of cell phone pictures which are sometimes horrible. We see details, they see what's in the picture. Great video! Found your channel today, will be spending some time here.

@AnthonyToglife

2 ай бұрын

I think I preach this every day! I’ve seen pics that, from a technical perspective, were absolutely terrible, yet comment after comment was praise and admiration. My mentality changed years ago when I had an “ah-ha” moment and realized I was fixating on things the client would never, ever notice or care about.

Ok - I did what you said -- seriously 😀 and watched and listened with an open mind. With that - I understand your point. The reason I don't give out RAWs on paid jobs isn't because I worry about why they want RAW; it's not because I care about whether or not they can open them; and it's not because I don't want them to edit them -- nor, am I afraid I won't be able to prove ownership through copyright. For me -- and I may be in the minority, the one simple reason I never give RAWs is becuase it's my IP. It's my intellectual property - and no client, at any level, is purchasing my IP. They can purchase my time. My service. My editing. They aren't purchasing my IP. My contracts spell out the deliverable -- which in most cases are low-res jpegs for viewing and mid-range jpegs for deliverables. Not in all cases, as there are some where I will provide high-res jpegs. So if a client wants to edit or redistribute a jpeg -- even though I have language in the contract that specifically speaks to copies and edits, they'll do so on a jpeg. So no over the top reasons for me, other than the fact that when I'm hired -- whether for corporate events, head shots, or model work, I don't deliver RAWs -- and, I do a fair amount of video production work also, and in those cases, I don't give them my 4K source footage. For me, it's simply a matter of keeping my IP. As a smaller photographer, I don't have the means, time, or money to go into some long legal battle with someone who takes liberties -- even with the paper trail. Great topic man. I really do appreciate you bringing this to the table. And yep - I have had clients ask for RAW files -- real RAW files, so I do understand where you're coming from - but I get 're-ups' fairly frequently (clients coming back and asking for more copies from a shoot), which -- at some level leads me to believe that some (most??) clients will follow the guidance and language in the contracts we sign with them. I'm sure there are those who edit and redistribute, and I'm good with it becuase the one thing they're only editing is a copy. And if they can get where they're trying to go by running a jpeg file through an editor, good on 'em -- seriously. But I don't think anyone - no matter the business -- should willfully give -- or sell their IP to a client. To be clear - my position has nothing to do with what others may think - or how regular people view photography -- it's simply a position of owning all of my IP. Just the views of a small-timer 🙂 If a client can't accept that I won't deliver RAWs, I'm good with it - and they can move on to someone else -- no harm in that. Cheers, my friend!

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

First, as always, I appreciate your thoughtful response. That being said, can you elaborate on your reasoning for not wanting to sell your IP? You can decline to answer that if you like, but I'm curious why it's not something you entertain. Especially if you do as I mentioned in the video - maintaining ownership and providing a license for use. In this instance, you still own that IP, so why not make residual money on it? I guess my second question would be, why do you hold IP of random people to such a high regard that you're not willing to part with it? I can definitely understand passion/personal projects, but if a family hires you for a photoshoot, why are those images so significant that you wouldn't sell them RAW/unedited files? What are you going to do with images of them that makes that IP so valuable/meaningful to you?

@RustyBrownPhotography

4 ай бұрын

@@AnthonyToglife Great questions, my friend. For me, I went to school for photography and minored in journalism. Bylines and IP are hugely important to that community - hence my loyalty to it. You see, I don't consider the randomness of it -- whether it's a family I'll only meet once for a wedding; or the shots taken when hired as credentialed media covering a basketball tournament. I'm fine with delivering based on the contract language - and yep, in all probability, I'll never access those images (or people) again. But - should I ever have an issue of image ownership, I can rest easy knowing there's only one original raw file, and I have that. For me, and I get that I may be in the minority -- it's easy to be consistent across all types of shoots -- whether I know the subjects or not -- and I'll always specify in the contracts things like whether images can be sold; how long I'll make the images available to the customer (for re-orders); number and type of images delivered and "original ownership rights" to include the RAWs. Here's the thing - I've got nothing against anyone willing to give (or sell) their RAWs. In fact, I know some shooters who don't even shoot in raw and will give the client imiages straight from the memory card. However, I was taught the importance of owning/protecting intellectual property - of which the RAW files are -- which is why I've never given/sold my raw's and why I'll always keep them. With that, I will acknowledge that very few colleges offer degrees in photography anymore -- which sorta speaks to my age/generation and how so many things have changed 🙂 Great topic, man!

@AnthonyToglife

3 ай бұрын

I respect it. I still feel differently but the great thing about photography is that we're all free to do it however we see fit. Keep being great my friend.

Awesome video and talk about RAW files!

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

Thank you Agnetha!

Makes a lot of sense👊🏾

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

Thanks @goodtimeproductionz, I appreciate it.

Good talk, you right about having photos of strangers stored away on a hard drive for no reason would be creepy to me. Unless it's a celebrity then it would hold a sentimental value.

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, I keep all my RAW files but that’s out of me being OCD, I rarely ever go back to an old shoot.

Well this is definitely a different prospective on a deep discussed issue. Enjoyed your prospective on the topic and how you educated with the topic.

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

Thank you kindly, much appreciated. My goal for 2024 was to create videos that dive deep and evoke thought. I won't get everyone to see things how I do, but if I can at least get people thinking, then we're moving in the right direction.

@wlewis5999

4 ай бұрын

@@AnthonyToglife your topics have been great, and sometimes we need those hard talks to help us better ourselves and see a different prospective. Continue to do just that.

@AnthonyToglife

3 ай бұрын

Much appreciated!

The last job I did... Family home kiddie party freebie. I just handed over the memory card with the jpeg + raws on straight outta the camera and told em good luck 😅

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

I'm right there with ya, for real! Why would I want to do anything with those types of photos? I'd be more than happy to show up, take the pics, get paid, then send you on your way with the images, lol.

@SystemParanoia

4 ай бұрын

@@AnthonyToglife 🎯🎯🎯

I haven’t even watched the video and I am saying hell to Nawh 😂. Now imma come back to you after I actually watched all the video 😂😂😂

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

Hahaha, definitely let me know how you feel after watching, and if you're still feeling "hell to nawh", please elaborate on why...

Great perspective!

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

Thank you Rich!

Another thought provoking conversation with good points well made 👍 So what is my feeling regards requests for RAW files? Firstly, I've never had anybody ask for them so I can only respond hypothetically. I can see both sides of the argument and both are valid however my response as with all things photographic is, it depends. From a purely business point of view I'm totally with you on this. If a client ( corporate ) wishes to receive the RAW files and is happy to pay extra for them within the stipulation that they agree to my terms and conditions of use then absolutely they can have them. Ultimately they are paying for your services and that includes the images themselves. Now it may be that they might wish to post edit the images " in house " themselves and only require me to capture the images they need. In this instance they are not hiring me for my artistic style in terms of editing but just for my competence in being able to supply images with the equipment I own. Its as simple as that. This fear of releasing the RAW images is also a non issue in my opinion. I have copies of all the RAW images even if I supply copies to a client. This is not like back in the film days where you relinquish your negatives which are the only ones that exist. In fact part of my sales pitch is that I will keep the RAW files indefinitely, backed up should the client ever return to me in years to come asking for them again ( which of course would come with a charge and a second opportunity for me to make more money ). Bear in mind that my copies of those RAW images would retain all the genuine EXIF and Metadata so even if a client " doctored " their copies maliciously its not going to change my copies. So what scenario would I be inclined to put into my terms and conditions that the client cannot have copies of the RAW files? I'm thinking non corporate clients, ie, the general public where I might shoot a payed event, a wedding and such like. So why would I treat these clients differently? Well I'm assuming they selected me for my personal look and style of my photography and not just as a hired camera for the day. There's no way I'm giving " Uncle Bob " my RAW files of a Wedding for him to post edit and supply to the couple, absolutely no way! So from this perspective I can totally understand where some photogs are coming from in refusing RAW files to a client. As I alluded to its not a simple black and white answer and of course each case has to be taken on its merits. So I guess I'm firmly on the fence regards this question yet clear as to the circumstances under which the choice to supply RAW files is situation dependant. Keep up the great content 😉

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

From my experience, non-corporate clients ask for unedited/RAW files because they want more images but don’t want to pay the photographer price to edit and provide them. For a regular portrait shoot I charge $30/image for each image above what’s included, it would definitely be advantageous for someone to purchase a stack of unedited JPGs than to purchase 10 edited files. But as with any business, I do think it’s a case-by-case basis. I don’t just say yes because they ask, I inquire as to why they want them and what they plan to do. There are times where there’s an alternate/better solution to their problem.

As a client I would always want the raw footage, especially for such important moments like a wedding. That way I can hire a a cutter in 10 years, who makes a new master cut or includes old scenes in a new film. You could of cause make a contract with the creator, that the has to archive the footage for the next 70 years, but it is a hassle and a high risk, especially if you moved to an other country and now you somehow have to connect all the film studios, that they can collaborate and produce a new film together behind you back. The other point is remastering the footage in 20-30 years, if we have new standards and technologies. Much easier with raw footage. Maybe we use different color spaces in the future. Then REC.709 is just a bad choice. An other scenario: I contract an other producer in 25 years, who should create a foto album for me about my marriage. How can he match the style of all photos, if he does not have the raw files? The end result would be much worse. A compromise could be an intermediate product, where I get edited footage with a high bitrate, bit depth and custom conversion LUTs for other color spaces.

@AnthonyToglife

7 күн бұрын

Thank you for the thorough comment. I think a big group of people who refuse to provide RAW files aren't full time photographers/videographers who rely on income from this for their livelihood. When you do this full time, you quickly realize making money is much more valuable than arbitrarily holding onto to something that isn't significant in the grand scheme of things.

I agree with you. When my clients ask for raw files they're really asking for the unedited jpg's. They just don't know the difference. cool video

@SJSquarePhotos

4 ай бұрын

I 💯 agree!

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

And for some reason so many photographers don’t seem to get this. They see/hear “RAW file” and immediately go into defense mode. Maybe because I was an analyst for years I’m used to asking questions to dig deeper because usually what someone tells you up front is far from what they actually want or what they really want isn’t how they describe it. 🤷🏾‍♂️

This was deep! Would you mind sharing your contacts?

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

Contacts? Or did you mean contract?

I am into this nefarious, egoistic side when shooting. But as a client I am like gimme gimme raw files. I want to edit them. I find this interesting. It's all about me, as I see it. So, yeah, perhaps it's time to loosen the mind abit. Most likely my world would not end upon giving raws away. Not that I would ever offer raws by default. Client is paying for my work and vision. Thus they get final jpegs unless otherwise contracted. Good topic. Got me thinking

@AnthonyToglife

7 күн бұрын

Your world would definitely not end @eskomies lol. I appreciate you watching and commenting. I've enjoyed getting people's thoughts on this topic.

NOPE! I write that in my contracts - that they will NOT receive the RAW files.

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

👍🏾

Right don't "give" raw files, "sell" them🙌🏾... Anything can be negotiated

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

That's it DRoe!

How much will you charge for the RAW files? How many sets of RAW files will you have to sell to cover one legal case, no matter the case? I averaged $500+ additional sales for prints and albums (bride & groom, parents), why pay $500+ to the photographer when I have the RAW? I had a client tell me he could get the images edited from a service on the internet for less than what I charge for prints and albums. So I am not leaving money on the table, because my clientele almost always purchased additional prints and albums from me. Now, if you are charging less than $5K for a wedding, ok sell the RAW files to help put bread on the table. Do you think people would order 16x20 reprints from their wedding for their silver anniversary party if they had the RAW files? I am going to have to disagree, my 45+ years of experience tells me otherwise.

@AnthonyToglife

4 ай бұрын

I don’t photograph weddings so our experiences are likely to be different. But I don’t worry about the “what-if” of legal cases, because clients can sue for absolutely anything. I would argue most people looking to buy unedited or RAW files aren’t doing so for illegal reasons, and those that are are probably breaking other pieces of the contract as well. To each their own, I have no issues with that.