Script & sources at: www.thenandnow.co/2023/04/14/wokeism/ ► Sign up for the newsletter to get concise digestible summaries: www.thenandnow.co/the-newsletter/ ► Why Support Then & Now? www.patreon.com/user/about?u=3517018

@michigan2400

11 ай бұрын

You dont know shit.. people complaining about wokeism is conservative idiots not wanting to acknowledge the rights of marginalized people .

@HighlandRooted-ul4rv

7 ай бұрын

Man… when you talked about courage. Just wanna smash your head in. You critised that guy and described what courage is. Yeah? Each and every one of your points is literally wokeism. Cry and throw your toy out the pram rather. It’s the right that actually does things. The left/woke culture only tears down.

@johnpauladlawan9753

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for the sources

the terms "woke" and "redpilled" originally had the exact same meaning (being aware of the inconvenient truth about society), but depending on who adopted the terms their meanings changed into mocking insults

@namjoonie936

2 жыл бұрын

alot of things lose their meaning once they become political buzzwords

@masonvegas4336

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Einstein

@farzanamughal5933

Жыл бұрын

Yeah thats funny

@StrayGod10

Жыл бұрын

The red pill was initially an allegory for hormone blockers.

@zetsubou-sensei1078

Жыл бұрын

The way I always saw it was, people started using woke as an insult, because people would say "stay woke" after sincerely saying the stupidest, most uninformed bs that they heard on the internet.

Maybe true wokeism is the friends we made along the way.

@vodkaboy

2 жыл бұрын

haha

@jeffengel2607

2 жыл бұрын

Pretty sure anti-wokeism is the enemies we make along the way, so there's symmetry!

@JDdr86

2 жыл бұрын

@@jeffengel2607 Touche!👍

@inb4play167

2 жыл бұрын

Which video is this one from?

@alistair4909

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t you mean the friends we WOKE UP along the way lol

Conversation has disappeared and now all I see is everyone raging and reacting. I don't think people should be canceled, these incidents should be seen as a teachable moment. We need to sit down with each other and have a conversation and listen to each other.

@Prodigi50

Жыл бұрын

I get what you’re saying but people are getting tired of talking to people about the same things over and over again.

@Marz859

Жыл бұрын

People aren’t owed support, if they’re cancelled then so be it. It’s truly not the end of the world. Conversations can be had all day but people esp those using public platforms should know support is fickle and things done or said can affect how people feel about supporting you.

@erickforsyth3793

Жыл бұрын

@@Prodigi50 That can (and has) always been said by every side. There's never a point when the conversations are over. The work is never "done" but always ongoing. Now is not the time to get lazy and give up on people. Yesterday it may have been the black and brown woman, today it could be the poor white Southerner-- there is always someone being told "You're not worthy of being listened to" and that is not only bad citizenship, but a recipe for radicalization.

@wowcplayer3

Жыл бұрын

@@erickforsyth3793 lol, it's also a recipe for defendable and well-articulated political positions, but these people aren't being told they're not worth listening to, they're being told only to speak freely within their agreeable circle. That's a recipe for radicalization. Primarily those unwilling to fight for their ideas are a problem, this culture ubiquitously allows and even encourages the carefree mouth, of course both the west coast carpet bagger would be just as good to shut up as the southern confederate.

@wowcplayer3

Жыл бұрын

@@erickforsyth3793 I'm not sure how damaged you think American politics is, but it's every level, and every motive that we see touched by political snake oil. This is the consequence of several useless generations of ziplips "no politics as the dinner table" 🙄

I can’t believe the English cancelled Joan of Arc by burning her at the stake. That’s one campus debate that went wrong.

@drumcorps0junkie

Жыл бұрын

Insanity

@michaelmcclure3383

Жыл бұрын

In a new movie on her she is portrayed as a woke non-binary person who struggled with the patriarchy or something...

@elizabethhazel6039

Жыл бұрын

Poor Joan was burned by the French, not the English.

@melodi_bunniez

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelmcclure3383 She wasn't non-binary but she did struggle with patriarchy You're saying this like you know anything about the Hundred Years' War or history in general

@melodi_bunniez

Жыл бұрын

@@elizabethhazel6039 Those damn Fr*nch! They can never be trusted, not even by their own kind!

While I agree with the origin of wokeism relating to the habermasian concept of 'public sphere' but the fact is that wokeism has its limitations. Wokeism as taking place currently, has become a form of performative act, a trend. That's why all these multinationals who don't give a shit about minorities or transgender people, will be so eager to co-opt the rhetoric of pride and diversity. Amazon can play the woke rhetoric of racial diversity, all the while destroying union efforts by its own employees, the most vulnerable of whom are the racial minorities themselves. In short, the problem with wokeism is that its superficial and not honest regarding the problems and its solutions.

@romanmanner

2 жыл бұрын

Do you feel the same way about past corporate displays of 'patriotism?' I highly doubt the NFL cares much about the military, 'American values,' or 'spreading the American way of life' (beyond gaining more viewers). Do you really think that The North Face is really all that interested in environmentalism? Their recent collaboration with Gucci indicates the opposite. Do you think that 'conservative companies' like Black Rifle Coffee care more about veteran's issues or their quarterly outlooks? I'd argue they identified a market they wanted to sell to (veterans and social conservatives) and then created an easily obtainable product to sell that market (coffee). Corporations exist to make money for their shareholders. They've read the room and calculated that it costs less to signal their acceptance of the more progressive worldview of those who will buy their products or services than to fight against it. Again, why should they? If the social conservatives were 'winning the culture war' these same corporations would 'embrace' those values with public displays. Frankly, what's superficial here is your apparent belief that corporations actually 'believe; in anything beyond increasing their value to their shareholders.

@netrunner77

2 жыл бұрын

@@romanmanner his point still stands

@maxr.k.pravus9518

2 жыл бұрын

@@romanmanner Your statement does not contradict the above comment.

@penjorebhutia2815

2 жыл бұрын

@@romanmanner My post was exactly about this - that the corporations don't actually believe in any of these rhetorics and are their to make profits for their shareholders. This is why it's so easy for the corporations to co-opt the rhetoric of pride and diversity. The fact is that unless the woke politics is grounded and rooted in a material, socio-economic analysis of the issues plaguing our capitalist societies, none more than the corporations and governments will be happy. Coz they are well aware that these woke politics without any substantial socio-economic analysis is really easy to be co-opted without rocking the boat much.

@larryhall2805

2 жыл бұрын

Wow! You stated that so eloquently! It's something I felt for a long time but couldn't articulate. Than you.

“If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. Any attack on intellectual liberty, and on the concept of objective truth, threatens, in the long run, every department of thought.” -George Orwell

@brunods4560

10 ай бұрын

Orwell went Spain to kill fascists. He wasn't too keen on listening to their bollocks.

@connorhart7597

6 ай бұрын

He said some smart things every now and again, but he was all but a supporter of hitler and the NSDAP, among other absolutely fucked things.

@neco5740

5 ай бұрын

This can just be applied to both sides.

@tomsnowden6201

5 ай бұрын

@@neco5740that’s the point

@imacmill

5 ай бұрын

​@@chheinrich8486You must be French-Canadian, since I can't understand what you wrote.

The undeniable right-wing fearmongering aside, to pretend that progressive politics have not "jumped the shark" in a lot of ways, is very unwise at this point. No matter its admirable goals, it became in a lot of ways performative, dishonest, and routinely abused for personal and selfish goals. It needs a lot of course correction, and more then a bit of internal criticism, which it does not allow. To be woke in its originality means to "be aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues and to be alert to racial prejudice and discrimination. It has been a critique of society we live in. And was and still is, absolutely needed. But it has morphed into something else, and shows a worrying lack of ability to sometimes look internally and thus both critique and allow critique of itself. Wokeism is this "my way or the highway" attitude and "I know best, and anyone who says otherwise is a bigot and a hater". And its supposed to be the people who are ostensibly the smarter, more informed, empathic and attentive side of society.

Watching this one year later and it's only been getting worse and more confusingly used! I saw a menopause awareness campaign labelled as "woke" the other day!

@MS-il3ht

Жыл бұрын

To be fair, that's the postmodern left's primary target group.

@user-ez7ls2du9c

Жыл бұрын

Its all 100% ret**ded. Including this channel, he tried to deboooonk the bell curve eevn though after decades and decades not a single part of the book by Charles Murray has been disproven. So in one video he cries about wokeism and in the next he cries about the bell curve and lies about it... Seems like the channel owner himself is a woke reta***

@michaelduguay7698

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, menapause is pretty woke if you ask me. Should definitely end it!!!

@YoshiTheOreo

Жыл бұрын

Did it use the term "woman" or "birthing people"?

@genghischan69

Жыл бұрын

Nice, never heard of this but my gut tells me it's related to some karenisms and indeed woke obnoxiousness being characteristic with women currently at that menopause age. It does seem that wokeness has their demographics and that seems like it could be one of the bigger ones. But that's just my *wild* guess going off your vaguely written one sentence claim.

I've been such a huge admirer of your channel ever since you put out your video on Derrida/post structuralism, and (back when I had the funds), supported you on Patreon. This is the first time I've seen you post a video that didn't engage with the arguments being critiqued. I don't know who two out of the three of KZreadrs being criticized, but I did watch the carefree wandering video and nowhere in this did you engage the main problem with wokeness, as he sees it--it's that it's a language game that anyone can perform. The CIA example was used to point out that this language game is being used to gloss over an institution that has been responsible for untold atrocities that should make any leftist feel compelled to oppose it--but instead, by associating itself with this woman who checks all the right identity boxes, the CIA gets a pass. An example from American politics is when Bernie Sanders was competing with Hilary Clinton for the Democratic nomination and a big part of his platform was to break up the big banks. Hilary critiqued this by saying, "if we broke up the big banks tomorrow, would that end racism? Would it end transphobia?" She received huge applause for this, but ultimately, it was used by right wing media outlets to tear her apart, so not only did this empty posturing undermine the true leftist (Bernie) in the short run, but in the long run, it helped undermine her own viability as a candidate as well.

@HxH2011DRA

2 жыл бұрын

Anarchist have no answer for when the establishment co-ops their language.

@snoopy_peanuts_77

2 жыл бұрын

its not "wokeness" its simply PANDERING and using real movements for cynical purposes....like corporations appropriating language to sell batteries ...its not new

@iraholden3606

2 жыл бұрын

@@snoopy_peanuts_77 'ReAl MoVeMeNtS' they're not co-opted they're preincorporated and impotent, their whole origional purpose and that of post left and postructuralist literature is to defend capital

@vn773

2 жыл бұрын

@@snoopy_peanuts_77 ALL movements end over taken with time by the opposition, and at any moment can be seen as detrimental instead to the people they are trying to help, take for example the womens right to vote and work movement, now some say that it was all a tactic to disintegrate families and home values, having both parents at work most of the day and kids without supervision seek to social media for attention and guidance. The societal benefits of women being able be to given the same opportunities are evident but consequences cannot be expected since it is imposible to know what factors will influence the decisions we make today in the future

@justinlacek1481

2 жыл бұрын

Does the left really give the CIA a 'pass'? I don't know of any big leftist influencer who's a fan of the CIA. I don't think anybody particularly cares for the CIA.

I used to think 'woke' was a state you entered after finishing sleeping for the night. Now I'm just confused...

@comrade7324

5 ай бұрын

same, I cant even read the word the same way anymore. "Jimmy woke up."

@bdarecords_

2 ай бұрын

@@comrade7324 Waking up is woke.

sometimes i feel like the people who told me i was wrong for doing or saying shitty things helped me to become a better person

@billhicks8

11 ай бұрын

I think if someone tells you such a thing in real life it means a lot more and speaks better of the person than those who do it so much more easily - and often so much more cowardly - online.

@joshuagharis9017

10 ай бұрын

Nah...jkjk

@rasheed7934

10 ай бұрын

The thing is you shouldn't think everyone wants to hear the shitty things you have to say. If you are going to say something expect a response.

@manueldumont3709

10 ай бұрын

No Shit🤔💩🤗 . Ya gotsta be Shitting me .🤨

@IndependentFckr

9 ай бұрын

Ok, if they say 2+2=4, not 5 which is what the “woke” are proselytizing. You have to admit you can take PC too far.

I think “woke” is just a new word for something old. The young use it because it’s trendy and the old use it because the young use it and so is therefore scary. Tale as old as time.

@pastycayk1998

2 жыл бұрын

You know it sucks about this whole debacle this entire thing is going the way of how politically correct started it was just a term us lefties used in our inner circles and then the right picked it up and turned it into the scary word that means thing I don't like and I woke is becoming this scary word that means thing I don't like,

@JM-us3fr

2 жыл бұрын

@@pastycayk1998 Yeah pretty much. Though we can take solice is the fact that we will never run out of new words to make, and the right will never run out of outrage for new terms.

@namjoonie936

2 жыл бұрын

and they mean different things to different generations

@baronvonlimbourgh1716

Жыл бұрын

That is probably the best explanation on this i have heard to date.

@baronvonlimbourgh1716

Жыл бұрын

@@namjoonie936 they mean different things to everyone. That is why right wing adopted it so heavilly. So they can make every angry about something else at the same time without offending none of them. Simply because all listners think the one using the word means exactly what they want it to mean and agrees with their viewpoint even though it is nothing but a vehicle for the influencer. The power of weak language open to personal intrepetation.

The passage on Goerg Moeller is odd, given that it's preceded by a bit which mostly agrees with his analysis, the bit on political ideas, moral stances, being part of social mechanisms much like those ruing fashion, meaning it's part of a performance. Your analysis and that of Moeller largely overlap in this sense, with the bourdieusian (if that's a word) perspective. Of course you focus on Moeller's claim on civil religion, but this claim he's making is supported by this bourdieusian/sociological analysis of political ideas also being performances, appearances presented to the public sphere. To me it never seemed like Moeller was critizing wokeism by punching down (especially given he makes the same critique about conservatives - in this sense he'd be punching "up" as well, if he was punching at all).

@social-ize

2 жыл бұрын

Fully agree

@meskita106

2 жыл бұрын

I disagree! Wokeism is reflexive, it is a performance. Capitalism has relativised the public sphere, anyone can adopt the objects/signs/language of distinction through money. The moment anyone plays out these diferences it is to an audience and not for their own self realisation; it reaffirms there’s status, their differences, even when this distinction is based on superiority, wealth or privilege, the performance is only as valid as the longevity of their capital. We are becoming increasingly middle class, literate and cultural omnivores. It’s fair play until it is unjust.

@jaked5144

2 жыл бұрын

One of the main and biggest issues Möller takes is that woke-ism promotes “guilt pride”, a sort of hallow moral superiority complex. When he says he takes issue with it being individualistic, it’s in that it is performative and self serving, and tying back into the civil religious aspect, it plays on the western ideal of redemption. This can often be less helpful than say a pragmatic approach to social justice.

@HxH2011DRA

2 жыл бұрын

Really all it comes down to is the fact that pop-philosophy tube (no relation to philosophytube) is a tribe like any other and they don't appreciate Moeller cutting into their market share as it were. I have yet to seen a critique of Moeller's video from the less that isn't vague or an extremely minor quibble but the tone of people like Tom Nichols to Then & Now ranges from dismissive to extremely hostile like he insulted them personally. The only logic reason that makes sense to me is that he hasn't done the correct signalling/use the correct signifiers to be accepted so they're trying to gatekeep

@maxr.k.pravus9518

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I came to comment that Moeller is not wrong, and in fact does not say wokeism ought to be rejected on the grounds of it functioning like a religion, but to recognize its limits, specifically, the conditions of its possibility. Hence, one cannot ignore the broader socio-economic primacy of individualism and bourgeois morality, which perfectly ties in with wokeism, in fact, it enables it. However, conservatism, the opposite of wokeism, is just as stamped with bourgeois individualism and morality. The only difference is that it's a separate sphere of cultural/moral "tastes", but still growing from the same grounds as wokeism does, and that is capitalism. Noteworthy, the discussion is implicitly US-centric, and to a lesser extent eurocentric, so this makes me think our understanding of the issue is somewhat limited without reference to non-western forms of public discourse/(civil) religion. That bit on the Cultural Revolution in China is somewhat short and surface-level, it'd be interesting to see what extent its legacy survives in China today and what is the current mode of public discourse in China. Not just China, but any other great non-western country such as India, Brazil, Nigeria, Indonesia etc.

Your interpretation of Moeller is far more "bizarre" than anything he said.

@HxH2011DRA

2 жыл бұрын

LOL for real, felt out of place with what he was saying earlier

As someone who lived through the 90's, I can catagorically say, that we are not free er to say what we want, as certain topics and opinions have been made, either tabo, or extremely risky, and in some cases outright criminalized on the basis of someones emotional reaction to what has been said. Gas lighting, faulse equivilencies, morral grand standing, straw manning and accusations of bigotry have taken the place of rational debate. While censorship has risen dramatically. Opposing political opinions no longer get together in a room to discuss the topic to determine who'se right any more, but instead attempted to "win" the arugment. Reguardless of who started this trend, the result is that both sides now errect straw men to stand in for an opposing point of view who see no point in turning up to be insulted, ignored and shouted over. The fact that our platforms have a bigger reach, does not mean we have more or better freedom to speak and be heard. Especially if those platforms direct you into an empty room.

@ianbrizell8587

Жыл бұрын

I totally agree. Maybe it's because I'm out of touch with these seemingly modern idiocracies or the whole thing confuses me to the point that I get brain freeze but free speech it appears is only free speech if you agree with the person you are speaking with or about. I constantly hear of people being called a bigot if they say anything against an opposing viewpoint. Surely it can work both ways. Someone who is calling someone a bigot is being a bigot for insulting the other persons viewpoint. Also, I regularly hear of people being arrested or losing their job for so called hate speech which is often no more than stating that their opinion is that their are only two biological sexes.

@jay4you853

Жыл бұрын

​@@ianbrizell8587 I'll start by saying: You're full of it. Let's be clear, no one gets arrested for an opinion, however facing consequences for your actions and words is nothing new only in recent years, do fascists and far-right propagandists pretend that all opinion (ironically, particularly the one they like), are equal and theirs shouldn't be challenged otherwise it's "cancel culture" or the so-called "death of free soeech", when it's simply accountability. We live in polarized world, words have consequences and when you live in the public you can't just say everything and anything without any push back. That's not the real world. Even in kindergarten we learn that we can't say everything we want and there are consequences. Timothy McVeigh attacked America based on the same rampant lie that free speech was in danger, the far-right plays on fear. Free speech has never been unlimited, you're free to speak, I'm to call you out. Period. Also, no one gets called a bigot over a simple opinion. That's a typical lie we often hear from...bigots who say bigoted things but can't handle the push backs. Saying there are two biological sexes is irrelevant, hardly anyone has ever contested that. It's the way or context this lazy platitude is being used that changes everything. If it's used for instance, to deny Trans rights or/and existence,we have a serious problem because as much as I don't care about trans, I despise entitled people trying to control others and demonize them for political gains. Trying to control others genitals or bodies is creepy. Period. Maybe if everyone minded their business they'd be less calls for cancellation or accusations of bigotry 🤷🏾‍♂️

@jay4you853

Жыл бұрын

I partially agree. However, no one said you can't speak,you simply can't roam around saying anything and everything you want expecting no push backs. That's not a thing. The world is changing and younger generations are less accepting of "hurt feelings" politics🤷🏾‍♂️ I think if you have nothing nice to say, sometimes you shouldn't always say it, I was raised this way. No point in hurting others to sound "tough",but that's just me. You can never please everyone and someone will always dislike something, but why antagonizing when you can just walk away? Lastly, there are things we must say a loud and resounding "no" to. For instance, what conversation you want to have neo-Nazis, conspiracy theorists, election deniers or domestic terrorists? A conversation requires that both individuals are grounded and live on the same planet, then we can discuss policy differences, not if Jew-ish space lasers changed votes. Platitudes don't always reflect reality.

@abrr2000

Жыл бұрын

@@jay4you853 You miss the point. The ability to speak to an empty room is meaningless, and the push back you speak of gets so rediculously out of proportion as to be legitimately monsterous. People loose their jobs, get socially ostrosized, become unable of earning money and have their lives destroyed so utterly that they are driven to suicide... for what? for stating an opinion, a scientific fact, or simply pressing the like button on a tweet. The mechanism through which this is achieved, is called being canceled, but what it really is, is a hate mob attempting digitally lynching someone in the name of compassion and tollerence. Authoritarian laws have been passed sending people to jail for litteraly making someone feel bad by posting a tweet in the name of tollerence. There is a genuine fear over simply expressing opinions or facts, as the consiquences are in some cases, extreme. A fear that simply did not exist in the 90's. the "push back" IS the problem, and unless brought back to a sane level, will cause the very authoritarian ragime those creating it wish to avoid.

@gwils7879

Жыл бұрын

@@abrr2000 So... when you get pushed back on for saying bigoted things, that's a problem... but calling everyone who doesn't agree with you "woke" isn't. Got it. Free speech DOES NOT and has NEVER meant society cannot ostracize you, or even cuss you out, or that your boss can't shitcan you, for voicing your shitty opinions. That's life. Grow up.

📌It follows the life cycle of internet buzzwords. It starts from a niche, then when it goes mainstream, inevitably there will be people who don't know the meaning of the buzzword and use it incorrectly, until the buzzwords is used to mean anything you want.

Thanks for making this. I think something a lot of people miss is that every political group has some unreasonable and dogmatic members. This does not mean that the movement is bad. Twitter just allows you to have direct contact with these people all at once so they seem like an insane mob, and the less hyperbolic voices are lost. Like Marshall McLuhan says "the medium is the message", twitter is the medium and it radically shapes the sort of discourse that can exist on it.

@thomasmann4536

2 жыл бұрын

It depends who the members are. When the president of the united states is as woke as some of the most insane twitter thugs, then you cant really make the claim that its just a few bad apples here and there.

@nomore2001

2 жыл бұрын

But the effect of the less hyperbolic becoming invisible is that fanatics end up furthering their narrative and interpretation which eventually becomes mainstream.

@bellumthirio139

2 жыл бұрын

If the best examples of woke people are the fanatics, the extremists, it has an intrinsic flaw, it thrives on a cultivated moral panic. Hyper moralisation existed prior to wokeism, and wokeism is just a symptom of the moralisation. Moreover, a fixation on adherence to subjective moral principles is innately disordered as it fluctuates, right now the moral paramount is racism, perhaps 10 years from now its transphobia, perhaps in 50 years it will be animal rights. It serves as a cultural zeitgeist which can only exist to obfuscate more pressing issues like the geopolitical and economic, because as a phenomenon it’s so provincial.

@jonathanboram7858

2 жыл бұрын

@@bellumthirio139 should I assume that all Christians are bad because the KKK exists? How about all free market capitalists because Pinochet existed? It's stupid to assume that any group or movement is characterized by it's most extreme or irrational members. "Being Woke" (for whatever meaning that designation has left after being co-opted as a beating stick by the right wing) just means recognizing systemic inequalities and thinking they should be fixed. There is a lot of diversity of opinion within the label about what constitutes these inequalities and how they should be fixed. There are a few people who act the way you say, but they are a minority of voices amplified by the way social media functions. Twitter likes things which make people angry, so the worst opinions are the ones which are pushed forward by the website. This is not an exact comparison, but think of them like the left wing version of Qanon. They are a minority of voices who get lots of attention and give everyone else on their side of politics a bad name. If you aren't looking at online phenomena through a lens critical of the medium in which it occurs, you aren't doing good analysis.

@bellumthirio139

2 жыл бұрын

@@jonathanboram7858 Extremism and fundamentalism (although the bible explicitly rejects racial politics, I won’t contest the KKK example) are an innate flaw in monotheistic religion, and fascistic seduction is also a flaw of the free market and liberalism. To accept that naturally occurring extrema informs us of the flaws of a phenomenon is necessary, woke Twitter mobs are the flaw of a cultural moralisation, therefore we should be skeptical of any moralising of culture (political correctness, historical revisionism, etc), I never castigated this moralisation explicitly, just pointed out that it has a fundamental flaw when it enables mob rule and hyperbole.

While I broadly agree with your analysis, I would love for you to dig deeper on the concept of "wokeism as religion." Here you posit it as a pejorative charge made by reactionaries to imply dogmatic, insular thinking - and that's true. But if we put those negative perceptions aside, there is something valid to the idea that people in an increasingly atheist society are finding in social justice communities many of the same benefits of religion: e.g. community, shared morality, and even some ritualistic behavior. Acknowledging this does not detract from the necessity or urgency of social justice goals.

@WhiteScorpio2

2 жыл бұрын

Those are not the benefits of religion, those are benefits of communities.

@OjoRojo40

2 жыл бұрын

This is proper to any group, not only religions.

@dana_____

2 жыл бұрын

I disagree on the ritual part. To me, it looks to come from either fandoms or communities. I know that fandom studies is now it’s own field so it would be interesting to see how much of the ‘religion’ aspect is just a community thing.

@LeFlamel

2 жыл бұрын

I think the "religiosity" or "communalism," however it's construed, can detract from the achievement of social goals. Namely, once the ideology becomes an effect of group membership, it becomes difficult to critique a movement from the inside, short-circuited by tribal us-vs-them dynamics.

@DaseinClimbs

2 жыл бұрын

@@WhiteScorpio2 I understand what you are getting at, however I think it doesn't give proper historical context to the role of religion in communities as a force for directing these activities.

I just struggled to do an essay on Habermas’ Public sphere so can I just say I appreciate the breakdown

I've got a few criticisms of Moeller's take on Wokeism, but I agree with other commenters that you've kinda gotten his argument wrong (if I remember correctly, it wasn't just a "religious" thing, but a tribal thing, so in group/out group signalling). That said, I agree that wokeism criticism is just a rebrand of a very old tactic to play the victim card and avoid criticism of bad ideas from (generally) terrible people.

@larryconcepts

2 жыл бұрын

Those with a conceptual framework based on religion think that all conceptual frameworks are religions. There's no room in their mindset for alternatives.

@raymondlane6947

2 жыл бұрын

Woke is a SATANIC ideology. I'm a father and whatever or whoever agrees with dismantling the family structure or feels that my children belong to a community of anykind issuing the fu$% out...get ya arms legally or illegally because a socialist-communist nation is being prepared for America...BLM,ANTIFA,ANARCHISM,ANTI CONSTITUTION,ANTI CHRIST,ANTI FAMILY SYMPATHYSERS,WILL BE JUDGED BY THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR. FOLKS WITH EVIL PITS AND SEEDS IN THEIR HEARTS WILL BE DESTROYED AN SENT TO A PLACE WHERE SUFFERING NEVER CEASE.

@MCArt25

2 жыл бұрын

Anti-wokeness is simply a tribal thing, an in group/out group signalling. It is a modern religion, trying to ostracize, cancel and suppress speech. It is like the crusades.

@tim290280

2 жыл бұрын

@@MCArt25, interesting that you'd bother commenting without having watched either video.

@pendejo6466

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, victims are pathetic.

Interpreting Moeller as bizarre by conflating his comparison of wokeism and religion to far right assertions ignores a religious side to things. Even Zizek does this with ideology. It's astonishing how you lump his analysis with the right for that. Sloppiest part. First time I saw no nuance in a pretty important part of one of your videos. And, the case studies are lacking as well.

@snoopy_peanuts_77

2 жыл бұрын

lacking what?.... maybe you are the one that needs to understand the entire picture.

@nonah60

2 жыл бұрын

@@snoopy_peanuts_77 or maybe... Just maybe, it could be you.

The word “woke” is just a word that gets used to describe someone whose ideas you don’t like. Like any word designed to be negative, it is also used by people to identify other people whom they believe don’t like them. But, like all of these terms that pop up from time to time, it simply does not exist except in the subjective mind of its user. There is a very good reason such meme words cannot be adequately defined - they are defining something… that isn’t.

@TheArmyofHades

5 ай бұрын

Well not really nobody calls right winged people woke. It's usually a derogatory term for left leaning people that concern themselves social justice and pc issues, that supposedly take their policies too far.

@wordscapes5690

5 ай бұрын

@@TheArmyofHades They are unable to define these PC issues. And when they do, not one of them agrees on what is “too far” because being good, kind, decent, and well-meaning is not a villainy but a virtue. Again, there is no such thing as wokism, which is why it is indefinable.

@Tusitala1967

3 ай бұрын

@@wordscapes5690 Wokism: An authoritarian Utopianism that masquerades as liberal humanism while subverting and annulling it from within with doctrines of group rights to equal outcome and the subordination of truth seeking to egalitarian political dogma.

Regardless of backlash, people losing their jobs for having opinions outside of the twitter minority, is unacceptable.

@lindabelcher8087

Жыл бұрын

🗣️📢📢📢

@ryanwilliams3857

9 ай бұрын

Form a union. And votes down right to work laws

@amberr6344

7 ай бұрын

People have lost jobs over things like virulent antisemitism screamed at passing cars for hours or violently attacking other people. What societal remedy do you approve for these actions?

@amberr6344

7 ай бұрын

I will also note that should an employee display the same behavior in the workplace (a valid concern) the employer can be sued as well.

@ippanpedrozo1162

7 ай бұрын

corporations making private decisions to fire employees based on public sentiment, is the free market at play. the corporation makes a decision that was weighed to increase profits by freely letting go of a perceived liability. the fired person should have the skills and experience to just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and find another job, no? besides, no one coerced them to voice an opinion that would get them fired. it was their free will to say something they knew was socially unacceptable, and it was their employer's freedom to decide not to associate with the bad opinion employee. it just shows that the bad opinion has lost in the free marketplace of ideas and debate. if corporations being 'at will' employment is "unacceptable", then free market capitalism is unacceptable. either people and employers have the free will to fire or hire who they want, or there must be restrictions and rules applied to the market. you cant have it both ways.

In many ways this is my favorite video of the bunch for all the debate it sparked in the comments section. You should engage the timely and controversial more often.

The Excesses of (Purifying) Pathological Righteousness: “The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior ‘righteous indignation’-this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.” Aldous Huxley

@miaferrari958

Жыл бұрын

One of my favorite comments on this thread that sums up perfectly my discomfort with wokeness nowadays: I may agree with your ideals, but if your methods involve dehumanizing others for you to feel morally superior, you lost me there...

Being "woke" is becoming a "joke"

thanks for a well reasoned video about this topic. I have been thinking about this topic for some time and had my own views about what it was all about but this has given me some new thinking on this issue.

Recently discovered your channel. Wonderful. Keep up the good work.

I think you largely dropped the ball re: moeller, cosmicskeptic and the citing of the ideology being like religion claim to deflate the notion of "wokeism" as civil religion, however that last guy blabbering about MLK through Joan of arc was facepalm worthy.

@theory_underground

2 жыл бұрын

yeah that's a fair review

The one truth of life people need to be woke to. Is that life mostly isn't great, good, or even tolerable. But that we should strive to make contentment as equitable and fair as possible.

@zwatwashdc

Жыл бұрын

Why? Many people are struggling with addictions, childhoods of abuse, poverty. They can barely get out of bed, but now the most important thing is that they struggle to make things equitable? We can see that the most powerful people, the ones who can really make a difference by not flying on their private jets and massive boats, by not having 5 empty houses, they don’t give a darn.

@argontreper8524

Жыл бұрын

@@zwatwashdc I see what your saying, but feel you are missing the point. People of Wealth will do little to aid anyone. It is on the backs of the populous to make the world a better place. Nothing you sited gives a person an excuse. To not do the little they can to improve the world. One can be a poor junkie who suffered from child abuse. While also treating others with respect. One's own shortfalls don't justify being insufferable to others.

@zwatwashdc

Жыл бұрын

@@argontreper8524 It is the wealthiest who use this language of ‘equity’ to control the population and to justify declining standards of living among the bottom 80%. People need to struggle for liberty and freedom from injustice. The biggest problem is not your average person’s behavior, but corruption among the ruling class.

@argontreper8524

Жыл бұрын

@@zwatwashdc while I see truth in what you are saying to a point. If a 100 story structure is unstable with problems on the lower 80 floors. You can't hope to fix anything without work to lower 80. Equity and fair treatment regardless of the individuals quirks are a most for any society. If the bottom 80% embraced these two attributes. Our voting power could fix the problems we face. We along with our forebears have allowed things to be as they are. The wealthy do have us endentured as wage slaves. Some people are way worse off than others. The wealthy elites however do not make people abuse their children or do drug. People choose those behaviors and habits. Because as a culture when it comes to doing what is easy or what is right. A lot elect easy as a choice. I respect your right to disagree. But those of us being stepped on vastly outnumber those doing the stepping. It happens because we allow it. Equity and fairness aren't the problem, they are the solution. The elites have used the false promise of them to worsen the average persons condition for sure. Just as they have used racism and prejudice to divide people. The whole goal of their capitalist system is to divide and conquer us. Be it on the lines of race, gender, religion, ect. People fall for it and strike out at the wrong people, place, and time. In a representative democracy we the majority have power that cannot be ignored without our consent. Allowing everyone access to food, water, shelter, and education is all that needs to be done to for equity in life. In regards to fairness people need to ask themselves how what other people have going on. Is harming others before allowing themselves to get angry. People get outraged over the dumbest things. Like bathrooms, marriage right, team sports, control over one's own body, firearm ownership, government over reach, and so much more. So angry that they forget that we are all humans capable of finding solutions to near anything if we work together. Wokeness is just another false banner to rally around to divide people. Common sense and decency to others is what is needed to elevate humanity. Happiness is fleeting, contentment is the only possible constant.

@zwatwashdc

Жыл бұрын

@@argontreper8524 we don’t live in a Christian society, we live in a Roman one. Maybe what you are saying can work among people who share the same (Christian) values, but that simply is not the case. Most people haven’t got a clue what they think or value. They don’t believe in anything, much less have respect for the less powerful. Neither did the Romans. All they respect is power, and if they have more than the next guy, they will exercise it. They look to Kim kardashian and Joe Biden to know what is right. Sadly, Kim is probably the better role model. In our reality, the fish rots from the head.

Thank you so much for your simply beautiful work!

22:35 "unapologetically me, whatever that means" Here is the crux of your problem with Moeller and the problem with you "interpretation" of Moeller's argument - you not only misconstrued his argument, you did it on purpose, since he spent a good portion of the video pointing out the origin of this "unapologetically me" nonsense in a CIA recruitment video. Based on your (deliberate mis)representation it would seem like HE is the originator of that "unapologetically me" nonsense. This is so cringy, man.

@HxH2011DRA

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah that was very strange, like he "watched" the video just to try and shit on it here, very close minded and not very scholarly nor through

@Bronyboy123

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, Moeller's video makes an interesting point, especially when combined with his more recent one about Jordan Peterson and how both what he calls "wokeism" and Jordan Peterson's reactionary social politics are built upon a foundation of individualism and the primacy of individual identity and action. I think where Moeller goes wrong is that he seems to collapse the entirety of the "woke" discourse into one monolith, considering plenty of people who the right would consider "woke" boogeymen place themselves in opposition to individualism and prefer systemic analyses like those developed in Marxism, Foucault's work, etc. The wokeism as a civil religion he describes seems to be primarily concentrated amongst people who are liberals, the political actors one might find within the Democrats in the U.S. It seems not to bring up the more radical strains of political thought that are present in the contemporary political discourse.

@T.H.W.O.T.H

2 жыл бұрын

For me the issue with Moeller's argument is that while he defines Wokeism as an expression of a renewed and intensified form of identity politics, predominately but not exclusively 'of the Left', by labelling it a (civic) religion he essentially dismisses it as mere dogma or doctrine; as a set of social strictures or tickbox moral requirements to which the individual must adhere if they are to be "Woke", or which they dispute or oppose if they are to be "aWoke" as it were. Similarly, by locating Wokeism within the framework of individualism he ignores it as a social phenomena within the wider public sphere. What he labels a 'civil religion' could easily be applied to the prevailing social norms and standards of any historic period. Does this mean that those who are motivated to disputed and/or oppose what they see as Wokeism are engaging in a pseudo-religious conflict - a battle of ideas in which the categorisation of individuals as "Woke" and "aWoke" defines the bounds of a kind of civil, and ultimately political sectarianism?

@burlbird9786

2 жыл бұрын

@@T.H.W.O.T.H I hear you, but locating something as a "civic religion" IS understanding it as a social phenomena. (My issue, for example, is that he never truly addresses the historical background of this so-called civic religion, which seems to be deeply rooted in Protestant, especially Puritan ideology, nor does it engage with its materialistic, class background. What we need is a good Marxist criticism of this political abomination, not attempts to negate its existence, like this channel seems to be doing.)

@T.H.W.O.T.H

2 жыл бұрын

@@burlbird9786 I don't necessarily disagree on you last point. While I understand your point about 'civic religion' being a social phenomena the point I was trying to articulate is that he uses the term within the context of the individual; that the 'Woke' are are civilly religious individuals by adherence or endorsement of a set of assumptions and/or beliefs held in accord with specific, Leftish, dogma or doctrine. I think there's far more to unpack about this than can be achieved on the bottom half of a YT video. ;)

2:00 - Chapter 1 - The awokening 12:00 - Chapter 2 - The broadening of the public sphere 17:25 - Chapter 3 - Moral tastes 21:00 - Chapter 4 - Cancelled

@omalone1169

Жыл бұрын

@Phan⸸omS⸸ranger ⛧ nice to see pan afrikan idols

People who have been "cancelled" are like children throwing tantrums. It's our choice whether we enable them or ignore them.

@pascal784

4 ай бұрын

"we" who?

@frishter

4 ай бұрын

You shouldn't have the authority to take that choice away from other people however.

@Cobbido

2 ай бұрын

Totally. So were the people shunned during puritanism, same with the Christians prosecuted in the Roman Empire.

I still proudly say I’m woke. If more people questioned *both* sides of their governments, hold corrupt authorities accountable, and not fall sheep to a mental mass media culling.

"Moeller makes many bizarre claims." I'd love to hear you dig into those claims since many of them seem to be incontrovertible. Wokism is certainly not postmodern, in the same sense that Jordan Peterson is talking nonsense when he tries to say Marxism is postmodern.

@HxH2011DRA

2 жыл бұрын

Why does the pop-philosophy left react to Moeller's video like this you think? They keep claiming he's making multiple critical errors but never call more than 2 out if that, and they're never good. Or is this just my take and I'm stupid?

@selimword25

2 жыл бұрын

@@HxH2011DRA No I think you're correct. Tom Nichols for example had a super embarrassing take on Moeller. I think it's because they don't know how to place him. Moeller is obviously a leftist, a Marxist, and they've never seen such a thoughtful critique of wokism from the left before.

@HxH2011DRA

2 жыл бұрын

@@selimword25 always nice for an outsider to come shake things up imo

@maxr.k.pravus9518

2 жыл бұрын

@@priapulida Yeah, what JP says is even worse lol Woke=/=Marxist Marxists are modernist, not post-modernist. The fact that JP couldn't name one "post-modern Marxist" in the debate with Žižek just goes to show he's talking out of his ass when it comes to politics. I respect Peterson because his books actually helped millions of people. He better stick to self-help psychology and stay out of politics and philosophy.

@maxr.k.pravus9518

2 жыл бұрын

@@priapulida It's one thing to say wokeism is influenced by Marxism, and the other is to say that all the woke univerity professors are "postmodern cultural Marxists". Apples and oranges. Can you summarize that article you linked, I can't read it rn

Superbly written: some of your best best monologues good sir. Keep it up with these longer formats and that end with a punch

There's no awoke. It's simply a different form of being controlled or controlling other people. It's also a money ticket and free power for some people and a way for corporate elites to get everyone moving and doing their bidding.

I find it ironic that many woke people are simultaneously prejudiced and loudly opposed to prejudice. As an older white man, I've had my opinions dismissed and my identity vilified based on the immutable characteristics of my identity. But, try and tell a woke person that their remarks are racist, agist, and sexist, and they have a meltdown. Even though it is patently obvious that they are.

@nocapnobs7845

Жыл бұрын

As an older white man, you caused all of this. This is a direct BYPRODUCT of your generation's hate filled agendas, and even if you were a SAINT, your compatriots weren't hence why NO ONE wants to hear what you have to say, not now not ever. The fact that you're selectively blind to this is truly laughable so do not pay the victim with me. Take some accountability.

@Mayan_88694

Жыл бұрын

@@nocapnobs7845 the amount of projection coming from you is hilarious and astronomical, you re literally saying he can’t have a day due to the color of your skin, if someone did that to you you’d cry racism. You know that not all white Americans s ancestors were slave owners right? Not a single white American today is a slave owner, you were never a slave, you re not a victim. It’s actually insulting and disgusting that you use the abhorrent treatment the African slave To justify your victim mentality. NO ONE today is responsible for what their ancestors did. You know that it was also the African kingdoms who sold those black slaves to the Europeans? I wonder why you ain’t throwing a temper tantrum about that 🤡🤡

woke can mean two things;: 1. "Activists" behind a keyboard who want to virtue signal 2. People who openly disrupt power structures by means of language and action. Words are a big part of power structure, Foucault mentions this.

@TIm_Bugge

2 жыл бұрын

Without a verifiable theory with which to evaluate it, the meaning of the word 'woke' is too fluid to reliably serve the purposes of those who make deliberate use of it. ... unless, of course, it's purpose is mere virtue signaling.

@bipslone8880

2 жыл бұрын

Woke is a meanless term created by hateful right wingers. The right creates monsters like Woke, Cancelled, political incorrect in order to play the victim for their anti-social and hateful actions.

@badfriends5206

2 жыл бұрын

Spreading your opinion on the internet isn't a bad thing. It's called Freedom of Speech and should celebrated.

@bipslone8880

2 жыл бұрын

@@badfriends5206 So spreading lies and hatred is a good thing? Neo-Nazi opinions are good? Do you celebrate slander? Trump spread election fraud lies on the internet and it caused an insurrection on the Capitol. Putin spread his denazification lies in order to start a war.

@ernststravoblofeld

2 жыл бұрын

Name one single human being who doesn't "virtue signal."

Courage is also being able to admit to being wrong, which many of these right-wing think tanks won't do, in spite of how wrong they are.

@eduardstefanmalos3685

2 жыл бұрын

How are they wrong?

@comradefreedom8275

2 жыл бұрын

@@eduardstefanmalos3685 Everything about what conservatives believe is pretty anti-reality.

@eduardstefanmalos3685

2 жыл бұрын

@@comradefreedom8275 well give me an example?

@comradefreedom8275

2 жыл бұрын

@@eduardstefanmalos3685 They deny climate change being caused by humans, when the scientific consensus says it is being caused by humans. They think that gender and sex are the same thing, despite academics proving that wrong. They love taking away human rights, in spite of having more human rights creating a better society, need I go on?

@eduardstefanmalos3685

2 жыл бұрын

@@comradefreedom8275 well i am right wing and i do believe in climate change i believe that gender roles came by nature and so gender its not a social construct in my opinion and i think modern society hurts people more than it helps them The people who deny climate change are ussually mainstream conservatives which i dont belong to

Bombarded by shallow right-wing (mis)appropriation of the term "woke", I have been studying the concept lately, to try and learn what is at the heart, what is animating all the fuss. For the right, "woke" is nothing more than a derogatory container for presenting right wing concepts in a way that ignites anger and prejudice and doesn't lead to anything other than rejection of the opponent. For the left, it is a serious, but ultimately ill-fated pursuit of boiling down complex phenomena that cannot be boiled down. Both right and left are interested in a destination, but in reality there won't be one. It is the wild journey that we will be stuck with. Lots of skirmishes but no ultimate victory for either side. Actual enlightenment will require much more knowledge that is tied to real truths, not just talking points.

I appreciate your videos. I am in the middle on my feelings about 'woke' culture.... realizing that often by trying to inspire people to be more awake, and not join the mob, we end up joining a different mob, and in some views, appears like a religion the way people tell others how to feel, or speak. ' We do have more freedom of speech than ever before. But also a faster backlash, often from people who just want to be outraged, and not investigate intentions. Intention is everything

@wowcplayer3

Жыл бұрын

intentions are God in a cell block

@omalone1169

Жыл бұрын

@@wowcplayer3 09:30 please what film

@wowcplayer3

Жыл бұрын

@@omalone1169 dunno, I was quoting a Cannibal Ox song tho, and I agree with the quote around that timestamp. If only because I am a will my own, and entirely disinterested by either political correctness or my chauvinist male identity.

@erickforsyth3793

Жыл бұрын

great response.

@NotDuncan

Жыл бұрын

With good intentions you can pave your way to hell

What strikes me most about this video is that non-elite cancellations are relegated to a single throwaway line. Of course people with the money to pay their way into alternate publications are going to be publicly whining and moaning about being "cancelled" despite objectively still having a public platform, and I think we should treat these as a separate phenomenon entirely to that of someone who definitively *isn't* above the influence level of their personal Mob. I agree that the most public narrative is that of "the elites" themselves punching down, but to use this to outright dismiss criticism of *all* cancellation is short-sighted and contrarian in itself. These aren't things that go in the same box. (Not to forget more publicly-funded public figures who can nowadays be pruned out of banking systems with broad enough complaint. This channel itself is Patreon-funded!) Secondly on your epilogue: Particularly outside of the "elite public" sphere, cancellation often stems from something that was never intended to be a public argument in the first place, unless you consider a person's complete Internet footprint to be such. The offensive articles used for causing someone's ostracisation are often coincidental, unrelated to the motive for wanting them gone in the first place. It still functions under the same social-acceptance mechanisms, but it's a whole other ball game that reaches much further into personal lives than an "elite" cancellation ever will. (Much in the way modern policing is criticised for being able to find *something* criminal when looking deeply enough into most people, and then proceeding to take a deeper look into some statistically-identifiable groups more than others) This video screams that you're only seeing the impact upon the upper echelons of society and assuming it can't truly run much deeper than that.

@sandytimewell

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, absolutely. I think this is one of the weakest videos put out by Then and Now so far. Cancel culture has to be seen in combination with neoliberalism's casualisation of work and the dominance of consumer culture. Today we protest not as producers by going on strike and stopping production but as consumers by boycotting and refusing to consume what is objectionable to us. If we combine this with the vulnerability of freelance and casual work the lower echelons are particularly at risk of being chilled into silence. Socially useful knowledge production is taking a hit in universities as early career academics cant afford to take a risk upsetting their peers. This wasn't the case 20 years ago. The puritanical left have moved away from the values of collectivism and social solidarity, away from an understanding of materialist based oppression towards a hyper individualistic idealism based on identity. The biggest crime now is not "exploitation" but "exclusion". This is a significant linguistic shift for the left. A shift that mirrors the move from materialist socialism to idealist postmodernism as the main ideological underpinning of contemporary activism. Postmodernism allows no fix boundaries, no exclusions. Everything must be included by all the lines between meanings becoming blurred.

@AbhishekPatel-gb6ni

2 жыл бұрын

I have a hard time visualizing this cancellation you're referring to that occurs on a non-public scale. Do you have any examples? Not even trying to be obstinate, but I genuinely have never seen an example of a cancelation outside of the public sphere. Any examples?

@sandytimewell

2 жыл бұрын

@@AbhishekPatel-gb6ni I just replied to you with a link to an (open access) article on this happening in academia But it seems I can't put links in replies without KZread auto deleting the comment. You'll have to google: "The Gender Wars, Academic Freedom and Education" by J. SUISSA and A. SULLIVAN

@AbhishekPatel-gb6ni

2 жыл бұрын

@@sandytimewell Thanks, but that's not what I asked for. J Michael Bailey was a professor, not an average person, who wrote a book that literally no one remembers outside of the controversy due to how intensely banal it was. Still, he had a large following. I want to hear about how cancel culture affects someone like you or me, without a position of eminence. How does cancel culture affect a taxi driver? I also just find a lot of sociological papers outside statistical analyses kind of nonsense, consider it a hard science bias.

@sandytimewell

2 жыл бұрын

@@AbhishekPatel-gb6ni Come on, the paper lists dozens of examples includeing attempts to prevent research or suppress research evidence; no-platforming and shutting down of events and conferences; dis-invitations from academic events and publications; blacklisting, and attempts to get people fired; harassment and smear campaigns directed at students and staff. It document these tactics, as advocates often deny that any silencing of opponents of their position is taking place, or diminish its extent and significance. It has a wider chilling effects that is damaging to many students and early career researchers. It has had an effect on me during my studies. I'm not afraid of robust debate even to the point of it being angry or sweary. But the "consequences" of free speech are now rape threats, death threats against yourself and family, job loss, and even violence. When people say "freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence" I want them to be explicit: what consequences are they endorsing?

one powerful thing that tom nicholas pointed out is that massive outrage and mob justice is something that can be seen throughout history across all the political spectrum. Yet, only a small portion of this outrage is ever seen as "a mob". The endless crowd of people complaining about cancel culture is never seen as yet another outraged irrational mob, since they serve as a useful backlash to social justice

@MrSupernova111

2 жыл бұрын

Not yet. But as time passes another conscious awakening will replace being woke and you'll see the same opportunists criticizing the past through their modern and newly-formed opinions. Its an infinite cycle as long as humans are around.

@sub-harmonik

2 жыл бұрын

people who are anti-cancel-culture generally don't advocate for harassing people who take part in cancel culture, or try to get them fired. It's a difference in prescriptions. For instance during the french revolution the danger of the "mob" was due to their propensity to behead people. e.g. their prescriptive stances without as much consideration for morally liberal social contracts.

@MUSTASCH1O

2 жыл бұрын

@@sub-harmonik The serious ones who genuinely believe cancel culture is wrong. It's ironic that viewers of GB News go on about cancel culture, but when one of the GB News presenters took the knee on air, the viewers wanted him out of his job. It tells me the average person is more interested in what nurtures their emotional biases than upholding thought-through beliefs surrounding justice, social order and freedom.

@quasarlgq

11 ай бұрын

​@@sub-harmonik As oppose to the danger of the people the mob opposed, that would cut your head, ensure all power was hereditary and that you and your family would be forever oppressed.

@sub-harmonik

11 ай бұрын

@@quasarlgq false dichotomy, both violated liberal norms

"Woke" is exactly that. I prefer to be awake, in the present.

@IvanTheDarkAngel

Жыл бұрын

You're far from that

@Kyle_Warweave

Жыл бұрын

@@IvanTheDarkAngel Someone got woken up. And sadly slumbered back. Hopefully and temporarily in(to) the realm of misunderstanding one another.

Not quite sure I totally agree with the punch up not down mantra - people/views whether emanating from 'above' or 'below' you in your perceived hierarchy - if wrong, needs to be called out. I suspect that's an unpopular view lol

Well, you know that the inquisition wasn't always just getting burnt at the stake. Often it was just social and financial cancellation. So it's actually very analogous.

The comments on cancel culture are very selective and do not address situations such as people who are not celebrities eg. academics, whose livelihoods are at risk for not adapting certain language or opinions. Yes people who voice their opinions on public platforms should be ready for negative feedback and debate but should KZread channels be demonized, censored or removed for presenting heterodox views?

This was great , i loved the narrator's out look and way of or at least his explanation of the woke phenomena.

@omalone1169

Жыл бұрын

13:00 how do clubs relate to journals ?

I'm a "reactionary" by these terms, but a huge company like Vogue stating things like "we need the end of capitalism" is such a plain contradiction, right just before our eyes

@africanhistory

Жыл бұрын

which highlights the most profound trait of Woke culture its superficiality.

@btarczy5067

Жыл бұрын

I don’t know if it’s just a person writing it in one article or a message delivered „by the company“ via something impersonal like advertising. Either way it is not a contradiction. We all participate in capitalism which makes criticism from the outside pretty much impossible if one does not live completely self-sufficiently which would be the exception but also pretty irrelevant. Maybe it is posturing but the hypocrisy accusation is meaningless in this context.

@briantuk3000

Жыл бұрын

@@btarczy5067 bro, Vogue is literally a huge enterprise which bases itself in capital investsments, and so "lives" because of capitalism, so it's a contradiction.

@btarczy5067

Жыл бұрын

@@briantuk3000 Well, „Vogue“ didn’t write the article but probably some journalist working there who had it approved by someone else. Was all that done in good faith? Probably not. They made headlines, produced outrage etc. etc. If that was the intention I‘d call it cynical, not contradictory but… Semantics, whatever.

@briantuk3000

Жыл бұрын

@@btarczy5067 yeah but still, what the journalist said from his company as employee counts as what the entire company thinks, at least for the common people, what really matters.

Cosmicskeptic was debating against cancel culture. I think cancel culture and wokeism are intertwined but different things. Keep up the good work.

@relaxingsounds1386

Жыл бұрын

They're both part of the same paradigm.

@radioactivedetective6876

Жыл бұрын

Alex was for the motion "we should cancel cancel-culture"

@kunikloy477

Жыл бұрын

@@radioactivedetective6876 He doesn't support the idea of cancel. He said we should fight against and reject cancel-culture. Cancel means shunning and deplatforming, Alex is willing to openly talk about and debate cancel-culture.

@radioactivedetective6876

Жыл бұрын

@@kunikloy477 That's what I wrote. cancel cancel-culture means being against cancel culture. He has a video in his channel with the title "Should We Cancel Cancel Culture". Although the clip Lewis has used here is from a different debate. Alex, brilliant though he is, seems to have some warped and confused ideas about leftist political theory.

@ArgentWolf95

11 ай бұрын

both are from the same ideology: Intersectional Social Justice.

I feel you didn't watch Moeller's video fully. He is right in comparing wokeism to religion but he also states many times he isn't against religion. Just that philosophy needs to keep such idealistic extremes in check.

We are all Woke to our own injustices. Being Truely Woke is to be aware of the injustices others suffer.

@tinahalle3575

Жыл бұрын

I agree and we’re all too busy being puppets to really look at the other side with empathy and walking a mile in someone else’s shoes .

@tinahalle3575

Жыл бұрын

Just to clarify because I realize people will judge me based on which side they think I’m rooting for , I lean slightly left bit of call myself more close to center and I can see the points both sides make on certain issues as valid

@tinahalle3575

Жыл бұрын

* but I

@daan260

Жыл бұрын

being truely woke is being a communist and thinking you reinvented the wheel

@galinor7

Жыл бұрын

Woke is a variation of intrasectionalism which is neon Marxism.

Some people seem to use 'woke' in what seems like an ironic way to me. As they just call anything that they find personally wrong or unjust 'woke'. Woke often

The bit from 26:40 till the end I watched twice. Brilliant.

'Woke' is one of the floatingnest signifiers ever.

@patriciahopkins8348

Жыл бұрын

Its just another word beaten to death by rightwing media. Even repub congressmen are begging fox to dial it back. Bank crashes..blame woke. The dumbing down is real.

Brilliant work. The irony is is that in 10 years there’ll be a whole new thing in place for people to moan about.

@bridgettjohnson7437

Жыл бұрын

It won't take "ten yesrs". It will change "a whole new thing" sooner than you think.

@snorristurluson5849

Жыл бұрын

You say that as it's wrong for ppl to "moan" bout woke culture

@ProfessorFish

Жыл бұрын

what exactly are people moaning about that makes it "moan" for you?

@matthewkopp2391

11 ай бұрын

@@snorristurluson5849 If woke is a concern that a small affluent group, accumulated wealth, oligarchy, plutocracy, monopoly threatens democracy and the rights of man then Thomas Jefferson was woke. The right wing picture of woke is intentionally distorted to focus on the most ignorant, so that another „woke“ can never be heard. By conflation they can kill two birds with one stone. Interestingly enough Thomas Jefferson was canceled by the right over a century ago by hiding what Jefferson‘s political positions actually were. And the woke left recently canceled Jefferson without ever reading what he wrote. In reality Jefferson‘s real ideas are just as taboo as Marx‘s real ideas. Because both threaten power and wealth.

@TomCruz54321

8 ай бұрын

It follows the life cycle of internet buzzwords. It starts from a niche, then when it goes mainstream, inevitably there will be people who don't know the meaning of the buzzword and use it incorrectly, until the buzzwords is used to mean anything you want.

Well rounded and intelligent essay. Thank you.

@omalone1169

Жыл бұрын

12:00 this talk of the public sphere is difficult

I disagree with you on how Moeller framed Wokeism. I thought he placed blame on the power structure and the norms they built into the way discourse works. He was essentially calling both Kant and the Enlightenment out for it's subjectivity disguised as objectivity tactics. You could extend this to a realist/materialist perspective challenging the idealist one as the latter's arbitrary values age and decay.

Two of the arguments the video presents for dismissing complaints about cancel culture actually don't go well together. There has never been as much freedom of speech as in this day and age. Anyone can express their opinion freely on the internet, start a youtube channel or instagram account and attain a following. This means that having an audience is not so much a privilege, which makes the punching down argument unconvincing. Wokeism is not the ideology of any minority which is opposed to the ideology in power. It is an ideology about minorities opposed to power. Criticizing wokeism is thus not punching down on minorities in a power relation, it is punching against some ideas about power relations, which are widespread in our culture. The punching down argument is what actually makes wokeism dogmatic or religious. It regards any attack as being part of the power relations it wishes to dismantle.

@user-hu3iy9gz5j

2 жыл бұрын

That's right, it's shallow to treat wokeism only by the nice framework in which it presents itself. To make a fair analysis we also must incorporate what wokeism aims for, the methods, ideological and philosophical roots etc...

@H.Hardrada

Жыл бұрын

@@user-hu3iy9gz5j And all we need to do to infer their aims is to analyze their means. Anyone consciously observing the ethical apparatus in which these people have operated in for the past 8 years would never believe they had good intentions.

Calling someone woke is often used to avoid having a discussion and just dismissing a point of view without having to engage in conversation. You’re woke so all your points can be ignored. It’s used in a similar way to calling someone racist or a transphobe when trying to avoid talking things through without critical thought.

@adekaiwamisou

5 ай бұрын

Would you say it is similarly used to demonize the oposition without hearing them out as "alt-right", "conspiracy theorist", "homophobe", "transphobe", "fascist" and other such popular words?

@Lowequay

5 ай бұрын

@@adekaiwamisou Indeed it is. Just shuts down conversation.

@adekaiwamisou

5 ай бұрын

@@Lowequay Still, for the sake of argument, could "woke" be seen as posisbly a retaliation by some towards the afforamentioned terms and those who use them in modern discourse?

@Lowequay

5 ай бұрын

@@adekaiwamisou Possibly. But also could be completely separate. But not sure speculating about this helps. I have a similar conversation with my kids about who did it first. Not found a time yet when entertaining that conversation has been productive.

@adekaiwamisou

5 ай бұрын

@@Lowequay Speculation invites conversation, different opinions and perspectives. Also a conclusion gives perspective to teh current situation and can pull one out of an amorphous neutrality that paralyzes and prevents action.

No one is getting "cancelled" in the Orwellian sense of the term. Pointing out that a work of fiction or cultural practice is rooted in outdated social ideas is not the same thing as getting rid of those things. Regardless of what your definition of racism might be, Disney has NOT memory-holed its "racist" films (except for SONG OF THE SOUTH, and that is still available outside of North America), and it was Dr. Seuss's own publisher rather than a government entity that ceased the dissemination of his "racist" books. Conservatives just don't like it when people "call them out" or mock them, even though they do it all the time themselves. Given the amount of contempt they have for non-conservatives, they shouldn't care about these controversies anyway.

Also was so happy to hear Leadbelly. One of my favorite musicians. Love the library of Congress albums

It's more akin to banishment in the past than being killed

The idea of "punching down" is but a hand waving of often legitimate criticism based only on some ones class or privilege.

Very well thought out and put together 👍

Wonderfully insightful video.

22:12 , why did you just side-step Müller's arguments, without properly responding to them? Your response is literally just "he has fallen into the trap of equating wokeism with religion, which is shallow". But why is it a trap? Why is it shallow? Doesn't Müller extensively argue in favor of the symmetries between "wokeism" and religion? Why are his arguments faulty? I feel as if you are acting in bad faith here, and not just that part of the video to be quite honest.

@joelsavoie8641

2 жыл бұрын

I feel the same way, I was looking forward to one thinkers I find engaging critiquing another, but instead Müller's arguments were dismissed for an "ahistorical" comparison with religion. For me, that was very confusing, because the last thing I expected was for religion to be dismissed as something no longer applicable to modern political and cultural analysis. With the opening of the public sphere, isn't a new form of religion to match expected?

@HxH2011DRA

2 жыл бұрын

Couldn't have said it better myself

Wow! So much food for thought… I’m gonna have to rewatch this a couple of times to confirm or reshape my opinion on some subjects that are touched/brushed on this video. But most of all, the way, the tone on which you end the video (documentary I think we should call it), speach has never been as free as it is now! Just sublime. But, and this is a big but, this freedom of speach, perhaps because ir is greater than ever, seems to annoy more people than it ever has. So, we can not just stand and give thanks for the fact that we are as free of speach as we are, we must constantly fight for it!

Many regular people were canceled before it got to the powerful. They got canceled by people who were more powerful. They have gotten very bold.

Pierre Bourdieu would have said that PC and Wokeism is a distinction practice of the educated middle class.

@patriciahopkins8348

Жыл бұрын

Or any successful society.

There is something to this wokeism. I have worked in education for past twenty years and I recall staffrooms in the past being pretty open places for discussion. Not so anymore. There's a paranoia that wasn't there before. People are guarded now. I don't think people fear push-back against whatever argument they might advance. I mean, people weren't necessarily arguing - they were having conversations. Now people don't seem to know what they can and cannot say, so silence is the better option or seemingly safe or inoffensive subjects like the weather. And even talking about this stuff is becoming a negative signifier in and of itself. "Cancel culture" for celebrities is not something I give much of a hoot about, but self-censoring in the work place is a concern. I think people genuinely fear something. And when you have to complete mandatory training with this woke stuff built in (have any of you had the platinum rule thrust in your direction yet?), you could be forgiven for thinking that the centre (the political centre) has outmanoeuvred you somehow, and that you better remain silent while you catch up - assuming of course that the discussion about what to include in the training was conducted by rational, non-ideological minds. I mean, you missed the discussion, after all, and now no one wants to have it.

@TheTravelingnight

2 жыл бұрын

Preface that the following is with the perspective limited to America. It may apply elsewhere but I at least have no experience elsewhere. I don't know if there's much to this idea but I wonder if part of the reason for the sort of self-imposed dulling of conversation has to do with the possibility that we are living through a moment where we at once live the the current system while still being harshly aware of all of the issues plaguing said system. And following that, there exists a harsh tension between the two, that to critically engage with ones presence in the system requires much more than before. To casually discuss education for instance I would imagine is kind of hard because it has become obvious that there are some pretty fundamental issues within our educational system since the beginning of the pandemic. Not only within the educational systems but in those systems it exists beside and within. For instance, realizing that kids home lives can be actively in opposition to their quality of education, due to things like lack of internet, or even parents that simply do not value education. Or also discussing wages or the economy. To discuss one's support or lack there-of for Amazon workers attempting to unionize can very easily spill over into discussions of teacher's wages, and discussing that often leads either to discomfort, sadness, anger, or direct activism such as a teacher's strike. This all to say that to talk to each other, to really talk to each other, perhaps now requires critically engaging with much more that just the school rumors or a particular students grades etc. We can no longer live under the illusion that these massive topics intimately affect all of us. Though it's more so just that it's gotten more difficult, not that there was a switch flipped or anything.

@lystic9392

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheTravelingnight No. I think it plays a role that everything is more involved or complicated to an extent why people say less... maybe. But that's not why people fear to talk. I rather think it's the matter of losing the job or friends or family over prejudiced woke views that leave no room for discussion. Anecdotally, so simply as an example of how this can look: My group of over 30 year old friendships has also been scarred by a discussion on the vaccinations. And you might think it's because some were pertinently anti vaccination or believed in wild SARS COV 2 conspiracies but that was not the case. Curiously it was the other way around. The case was, they were offering thought provoking arguments and questions. As always, really. We like to discuss and think about things. Out of the blue, the more woke friends were accusing the others of being like Foxnews or losing context and being dumb, while those accused of this were willing to talk openly and consider arguments and questions. Soon after, the more woke people were threatening my other friends by saying "Are you sure you want to go through this every time we get together." They were assuming my other friends were just baselessly taking sides even though they hadn't even taken a side. We had never faced such prejudice and hostility in our group and I'm not sure I can look them in the eyes again.

@thebreadbringer9522

2 жыл бұрын

@@lystic9392 You hit the nail right on the head. The reason people try to avoid political discourse is because it is exceptionally polarised from both sides. On many topics I see a strong "If you don't agree with us, you're against us." mentality where even acknowledgement of different arguments leads to heated tribal behaviour and fingerpointing. This also extends to opinions not related to the topic of the discussion. If you agree with one viewpoint you are expected to agree with all other viewpoints associated with that group and the slightest deviation often leads to being ostracised and excluded.

@malcolmfreeman7802

Жыл бұрын

i think youre confusing 'wokeism", the right wings coopting the word to make it perjorative against the left people seeking justice, with overly political correctness

I'm autistic, and half of this video was an explanation of why I get in trouble with other progressive people even though we hold the same opinions on the actual issues.

He mentions that it's wrong to see wokeism as a religion and then never comes back to that point to argue it.

You misread the sublines. Wokeism does not only execute the consequences of making bad takes, it goes way beyond that. For the people with a lot of influence whose life and career are built upon their influence, it is just the better way to stay within the appropriate norm instead of risking being canceled for expressing their true opinions. These people of influence like influences, politicians, celebrities, philosophers, authors, etc. lead the public discussion and when they are limited to a set of rules given to them by woke people, they only talk in a tiny space of allowed opinions which then leads to a lesser broad spectrum of political discussion and therefore less freedom of speech. And this is a perpetual cycle; the extremist will always be redefined by being the most outside of the allowed-opinion box until we find ourselves in a society where there is no free speech and only one opinion is tolerated. It would be 1984-style where nobody wants to speak up because they do not know what the other people think. Wokeism undeniably made freedom of speech (compared to 5-10 years ago) decline. The people who fear/hate Wokeism are the ones who fear a constant decline in the future back to the old days of concentration camps and they do not fear facing criticism or having consequences for what they're saying.

@Youtubesucks3

2 жыл бұрын

26:06 why is getting cancelled so profitable? When are we supposed to hit 1984? Any random nobody can just get a book deal for uttering the phrase "the woke mob". We got a long way to go lmao

Although there are a lot of people who cry out about being cancelled whle they basically have nothing to worry about, not everyone who is being cancelled is a hyper-privileged individual. It's a bit of a superficial analysis to ay "crowd is always right, target is always wrong".

@darrenwithers3628

8 ай бұрын

It's always someone with a platform

It's interesting to see the comments about religion, because I've heard many say that if Jesus came today, He'd be rejected for being too woke, and cancelled for how He loved the sinners and outcasts.

I always love your videos. They are beautifully in-depth and appropriately educational.

While I don't disagree with most of the points in this video, I do think that the final argument came off as quite one-sided. I think we as leftists need to acknowledge that the most visible parts of our 'activism' nowadays seem to be those twitter cancellation parties for whoever the villain of the week happens to be. Sure, most of the time the targets of twitter mob justice deserve condemnation on some level, but there are way too many examples of the consequences being disproportional to the transgression, the mob simply can't be controlled when it gets started and it's not a reliable mechanism for changing people's behavior for the better. Right now, in the eyes of many, this is the face of the left and boy let me tell you, this shit does not make our political movement appealing to outsiders. Anyway, here's a video by Sarah Z that expands on my point: kzread.info/dash/bejne/d5l3y5Z8g9Taqto.html

@namjoonie936

2 жыл бұрын

you cant base everything off of what happens on twitter

@mattmcdonald7112

Жыл бұрын

@@namjoonie936 which would be fine if media didn't quote twitter in its articles, journalism is too diffuse and has become irritatingly poor.

@namjoonie936

Жыл бұрын

@@mattmcdonald7112 thats literally what i mean, only idiots are taking tweets and twitter to heart

I've enjoyed some of your other videos but could kind of tell where this one was going from the thumbnail. It would have been great if you'd featured or referenced the likes of John Mcwhorter, Helen pluckrose, Chloe valdary, coleman hughes, Jonathan haidt, Andrew Doyle or Ayeshat Akanbi, all on the left and all of whom offer much more thoughtful and nuanced takes on the subject than anyone featured here. This might have made for a more balanced and less simplistic summary in framing all criticism of woke/cancel culture as whinging right wing reactionaries (à la Piers Morgan). Douglas Murray's scathing attacks on 'wokeism' are comparable to Hitchen's attacks on organised religion but i got the impression you just cherry picked an unflattering clip from Fox News to discredit him, presumably as he's not on the left and is highly critical of its extremities. He can be a bit jarring at first (especially if you are a commited leftist) but the man can argue a point well and is best consumed in discussion with people like Sam Harris or his recent appearance on Lex Fridman. Putting 'wokeism' in a historical context was interesting and not something I've seen done in as much detail before. However I found the justification of a young musician receiving death threats and abuse to the point where he had to leave his band in order to protect his band mates quite disturbing. The idea that this is just a fair consequence for him saying he liked a book and that it's fine becuase he has money is, well, cancellable 😉

I immediately tune out of a conversation if woke is used unironically

I The Americans had a spate of "cancel culture" going in the 1950s. Senator McCarthy s witchhunting against so called communists drove many talented artists from the USA. Charlie Chaplin had to live in Switzerland . The musician Larry Adler and singer Paul Robeson had to go into exile in Britain Many talented performers and directors left for Europe due to the anti communist paranoia. Why isn't John Cleese called a woke for his fundraising for Amnesty International? He probably regrets his 1970s support for human rights.

What I love most about this video is how you use an entire fraction of a sentence from Alex O'Connor in which he doesn't mention wokeism or religion as a "case" evidencing a widespread argument that wokeism is a type of religion. Nothing but the utmost quality of intellectual rigor. * chef's kiss *

@michaelduguay7698

Жыл бұрын

Part of the reason I clicked on the video was to see if he was included in the video itself. Guess not in any meaninful capacity: won't waste 15 minutes of my life now, thank you

@don860

Жыл бұрын

English is not my first language so maybe I didn't understand.But doesn't he mention it actually? He said it serves as a civil religion.

@radioactivedetective6876

Жыл бұрын

Lewis never claims that Alex said wokeism is religion in his debate. Prof Moeller had viewed wokeism as a civil religion in his vid 'Wokeism'. 21:43- Lewis first shows a clip from Prof Moeller's vid. and spends quite some time on that. His observation is that debates about ethics and morality is not new, it has been present in civilization in one guise or another. The point he makes at 22:42 is that debates about dogmatism and political correctness have been present in some form & guise throughout history, this is not something new. He moves on to Alex at 23:45. Lewis observes that Alex views defines cancel cultre as a "new and distinct and disproportionate cultural phenomenon". - That is all Lewis says. Then he plays Alex's clip 23:57-24:25. Immediately after the clip Lewis talks about the 3rd person.

Great video. I appreciate all the hard work and research that goes into making these videos.

There was a time when the sociological discussions were centered on the need to reject labels. Nowadays, we can’t seem to resist embracing labels and jumping into a pre-assembled “ box” complete with slogans and bumper stickers! Maybe it’s due to feelings of overpopulation and loss of personal control. You know you’ve fallen into the trap of pontificating dogmatism when you find yourself polishing your own halo. 🥴 Are we seeking to improve human well-being or trying to elevate ourselves above “others”?

@hannahmitchell87

3 ай бұрын

Yes! Thank you! Spent ages trawling through comments branding certain views 'left' or 'right' & various subcategories of each. I don't want to be labelled as either. I want to live in a world where we can talk freely, share ideas, learn & grow together with compassion.

I remember when my Dad looked under every bed incase there was a red under there and now we have WOKE.

That guy who compared actual historical assassinations to cancelling was fucking nuts

I'm always baffled that to be a decent human being and treat everyone in an positive manner equally, judging them by their individual character, choices they make in service of themselves and their others, is such a bizarre concept. If someone advocates for love - I respect them, and would willingly share platonic love with them. If someone advocated for death, destruction, the eradication of a person due to a facet of their being (sex, orientation, gender, race, culture, nationality/ethnicity) as many people in history have done so, then I would want nothing to do with them. I would shun them, not respect them. From genocidal maniacs like Hitler, to a low-level killer like Bundy or Dahmer. Why is this core concept so hard to understand? Oh, wait...humans being human. I get it.

@juanmccoy3066

Жыл бұрын

That's a lousy and overused trope. It's a strawman argument because wokeism is NOT merely a slang term for "egalitarianism" which even if it were there ARE valid criticisms of even that. Wokeism as a postmodern tenet of the social democratic neoliberal contemporary ideology, is about actively infringing on people's rights, and associating historical sins, perceived or real and people who aren't even descendents necessarily but just because they look like them. Such as when SJWs accuse all white working class people of being racists and fascists, and demanding reparations from white workers to ALL blacks, or advocating abolition of churches because of Westboro baptists. That's wokeism. It's not truly egalitarian. And it is not social justice it's social vigilantism for u to ignore this is dishonest or ignorant. Wokeism comes from critical theory, a philosophy theorized by the Marxist Frankfurt School, Max Horkheimer in particular. After the socialist revolution failed to materialized in the US after the great depression his vision was to meld Frued and Marx to create what he called wasted Fruedian Marxism. He translated orthodox Marxism to cultural terms. Replacing the proletariat with minorities and anyone he deemed as "oppressed" and casting all whites, straight people, religious people, etc as the bourgeoisie. He sparked the cultural wars and Marcuse took it to a new level. This is why orthodox Marxists distance themselves from the contemporary leftists as it's adherents are more interested in social democracy and upholding liberalism so long as cultural genocide is carried out. Horkheimer had no sympathy for workers and thought little of them when the revolution failed to materialize in his eyes and blamed them. The workers in his time mostly being straight white men, he saw to cast as an enemy. Marx himself said anyone who uses the lumpenproletariat or the petty bourgeoisie as guards are traitors to the workers. This is what the critical theorists and their disciples did and still do today they don't care about workers. If u hate killers so much ud be interested to note the worst killers in history from Mao Zedong, to Jim Jones and the Manson family were cultural Marxists. The term woke itself simply means when blac activists are alert to social injustice. It was a 70s term that ironically was culturally appropriated by bourgeoisie white academic upperclassmen and teachers. The entire movement would be silly if it wasn't inherently murderous. .if u really cared about class elimination u wouldn't back up an ideology that reinforces and remained class struggle rather than abolishing it. U would be an anarchist or a voluntaryist but ur not. Ur a social Democrat taken in by ideologies u can't even articulate. By men who've been dead for decades who said things like "we will secure the revolution by infiltrating the media, politics and universities over generations" If you really cared about ALL people you wouldn't be willing to exile people for having different private views than you so long as they did no harm. But u do. U say it yourself. This is why Horkheimer was so heavily criticized by damn near everyone in academia to the point he had to actively sieze the means of education to force students to learn his fucked up ideology. Now u fucking neo Marxists are passing this horseshit on to the poor kids, little kids. Dressing them up in drag. Teaching 1st graders the most vitriolic race politics. So "loving" why would anyone be against any of this? Obviously this is all right wing smear campaigns. Despite even radical left wingers being thoroughly shook to their core by this shit. Ur gonna learn the lesson that malcolm x and huey Newton learned. They too students of wokeism and neo Marxism thought they could mobilized the lumpen proletariat in theircommunities. Instead they were betrayed.. their unions devolving into gangs. And BLM is going through this again. The whites in antifa are castration themselves and committing suicide after losing street battles. Infighting in Chaz. This is the legacy of Wokeism. Not love. If u really love people u leave them alone and you don't force ur weird ideas on others

@juanmccoy3066

Жыл бұрын

In my experience it's the so called reformers in society and the community organizers who end up just fucking over as many people as possible. Power corrupts. That's why I'm an anarchist. I don't want ANY classes. I don't want justice. I don't want revenge. I just want people to do for themselves and eachother without rulers lording over them. U don't need reparations when money and class is abolished. U don't need advocacy groups when the concept of ethnicity and race is abolished from all but the strictest scientific biological inquiries not by force but because that mode of thinking isn't even useful or productive in a society that just wants to build, grow and advance. Whiteness only exists because the English alone became a vast minority so they had to create this concept where they attached themselves to anyone with a similar skin color and facial features. It's just more hierarchical corporate nonsense That arises as a result of the stage. Homosexuality as an identity didn't even exist well into the industrial age because talking with a lisp and acting like a fragile sissy had nothing to do with preferring sex with men over women until the bourgeoisie social democratic elites who never worked a day in their life created this weird sub culture around their sexual preferences and then labeled themselves oppressed as if they had anything in common with gay proletarians except sexual preference. When u abolish hierarchy there's no more identity politics because there's no classes no politics and no super structure. People are just people. They either work and contribute or they exploit others by begging or stealing, either directly or through power structures. U either support hierarchy or u dont. U either support being a parasite or u don't. This idea of objective morality and love for "all human beings" is nonsense designed to keep u complacent. It doesent even make sense because it's impossible. Ur love will always come with conditions and a very high price. And those who don't get it will always get stepped on or outright oppressed. We anarchists want to abolish all of that. Take away all of ur control!

@RobbieManic

Жыл бұрын

@@juanmccoy3066 easy to call them "weird ideas" isn't it? Also, we're not forcing kids into drag - that's a stereotype in and of itself of the Left. Also, I'm mostly an Anarchist and do welcome anyone with views/opinions opposing my own so long as they don't harm others. You're just a dick.

@RobbieManic

Жыл бұрын

@@juanmccoy3066 the etymology of anarchy/anarchism is completely different to the typical "smash everything/burn it all down" that people instantly think of (because of media portrayal). Also - homosexuality didn't exist until the Industrial era? What do you call what the Ancient Greeks did then? Plato's Symposium ring a bell? What about the Romans and their ships to battle? And lisps and "being a sissy" are nothing to do with homosexuality - a boring clichéd stereotype at best.

@relaxingsounds1386

Жыл бұрын

This is a low IQ take.

I don't know if the last part of your argument is the strongest. The 'cardinal error of punching down.' Since for one these people think they are punching up still, and for another there's something about the punching up/down dichotomy that is almost an aesthetic preference. As in its more enjoyable and fun to watch an underdog story. Overall though the idea of this as a reaction to a broadening political culture seems pretty spot on. Its just the latest wave of gatekeeping from inside the clique that gets to discuss politics

I’ve always been better and more evolved than the people around me. I literally “wake up” everyday.

@scoreunder

Жыл бұрын

same bestie except when i stay up all night then i'm staying woke

The term “woke” functions as a reactionary term to discredit any critique of the status quo. You’ll never hear it used by someone who doesn’t wield systemic power or isn’t reinforcing the aesthetic of a corporate brand. “Cancel culture” doesn’t exist. If it did, it started centuries ago. The thing called cancel culture now is just what influential people call consequences for their actions in the public sphere. They don’t like being vulnerable to consequences, especially at the hands of “common” people en masse, so they victimize themselves.

@Fr33zeBurn

Жыл бұрын

Except most things now described as woke *are* the status quo. Most news outlets, a lot of brands and companies, the government, the US army... etc.

@noxplay4906

12 күн бұрын

Bro is so brainwashed he doesn't realize wokeism is supported by the establishment. Corporate media, the government, Silicon Valley and tech sectors, celebrity culture, movies and TV, social media, most music artists are pro-Democrat, etc. And bro, cancel culture did exist a long time ago. They were called witch burnings. You support modern-day witch burnings?

@noxplay4906

12 күн бұрын

@@Fr33zeBurn Fr. Guess the brainwashing is strong. Like how anarchists and woke SJWs say they're fighting against the system when the system actively encourages their activity

@noxplay4906

12 күн бұрын

I don't have a problem with calling out corrupt powerful people. It's just that the way the wokies do it is brainless. All they're doing is sowing hatred and doing exactly what those powerful people want them to do. Which is, stir up shit with each other instead of focusing on us! Most celebs being Democrat is no coincidence. Hollywood and greedy corporations like Amazon being woke is not a coincidence. Wake up bro

Pushback is fine, as is dissent, but it would be so much more effective if it came from people who have a clear idea of why they are pushing back.

hello ! Does anyone know the piece that starts in 9:05 ? thank you !

@klutterkicker

Жыл бұрын

Google found it and I confirmed it with my ears, and yet this video seems to have gotten it before it was released anywhere! The song is "Skyward I Say" by The Seventh Movement & Ardie Son. Good catch, it's a beautiful tune.

I confess, I used to be woke. I was constantly getting triggered. I protested everything that offended me, and demanded it all be cancelled. Finally I grew out of it, and went to preschool.

Good video. I have this rule of thumb which has been working out for me: it consists of disregarding any arguments from anyone who uses "woke" or " _the_ woke" or "wokeism" in a non ironic fashion. It might leave out some nuance, but I think everyone needs some sort of filter in an age where we're bombarded with arguments 24/7.

As long as the woke are screaming about how offended they are, they don’t have to deal with how offensive they are.

Really interesting and insightful video. Just recently discovered this channe and love it.

I think wokeism has been misinterpreted and turn into a conspiracy theory by the right wing media. They're putting out certain videos and news outlets targetting specific groups and brainwashing the crowd and manipulating with their emotions into thinking that wokeism is a serious problem amongst all others. A clear example of this is the Libs of Tiktok. Everyone is getting blue-pilled thinking that gender inequality is not real, they think what's happening in America and Europe is also happening in the rest of the world, they're so short sighted and live in their little ignorant worlds. They're highlighting wokeism and ignoring other real problems like gun laws etc.

@brixan...

10 ай бұрын

The problem is that each side believes this about the other. Your opponents would say that you are focusing on "woke issues" and not what they consider "real" problems. We should just make sure we don't censor, oppress, and attack others who simply disagree with us

@Seph0rz

10 ай бұрын

@@brixan... The real far left brings the discussion into the government agenda to rule and censor information while agreeing we are capable of being more moral and better off without them. Anarchic self governing groups exist in the very language we use and we dont need more government peddled, state funded "democracys" with a monopoly on violence and ideas. In effect the extreme left isnt even in existence...it advocates no politics.......politically choosing to not believe in politics......

@ablanuza76

10 ай бұрын

That's exactly what they did. They twisted the original meaning of the word to downplay the plight of the oppressed and repeated it for so long that many idiots believed it and don't even know its real definition anymore.