I love Fr. Nathaniel! His parish is awesome and he led a great retreat for us on the North American Martyrs

Thank you so very much. You both help me grow in my understanding - and as I grow our Liturgey just gets more and more awesome and beautiful.

Fr. Nathan, being offered a cool refreshing drink is simply hospitality. It bids you welcome and does not diminish the tone of the conversation. It’s hospitality…

Thank you Father and Paul for explaining the unity of Latin and tradition of this throughout the history of our faith. It is important for Catholics to know our traditions and the history of our faith . Lex orandi, Lex credendi. Prayer and belief are inseparable. Bless you both.

Fruity and sparkly. Nice video

Retired English teacher -- students became dumbed-down with loss of Latin, both religious and secular.

Thank you both, God bless

When you were talking about revisions of the Vulgate, I think it’s important to note that the goal of the revisions (Sixto-Clementine v. Nova Vulgata) was different. The Sixto-Clementine revisions were meant to conform the text to Jerome’s original and the Nova was meant to be a translation of the Hebrew and the Greek critical text of something approximating classical Latin. In that sense, the Nova is really a NEW thing, whereas the Sixto-Clementine is meant to be a revision to bring it closer to Jerome.

[posted this on Patreon, too] First off, thank you so much for putting these three videos out. I badly want understanding the rationale behind Latin. The nagging elephant in the room for me remains that I have, in effect, no understanding of Latin, nor do >99% of Catholics worldwide. It doesn’t appear a net gain to address the danger of using a vernacular language which is subject to mistranslation by substituting a language we have little or no understanding of at all. [side tangent: by the logic of trying to avoid mistranslation, shouldn’t the Church insist on Hebrew and Greek Bibles instead of the Novo Vulgata?]. The conclusion that seems inescapable is that we will have to gain a solid understanding of Latin if we want to participate fully in the Church’s worship/prayer. Am I right? I’ll rewatch this video several times and listen to the next two videos. I really want to understand this. Thanks again for all the work you all have done.

I have mixed feelings about the Nova, the first time i actually noticed the differences was with psalm 42(43) which omits "the God who gives joy to my youth" I believe that this is because that phrase is part of the Septuagint and not the Masoretic Text. After I noticed this I began seeing more and more and was kind of sad about it.

@ochem123

23 күн бұрын

The use of the "Masoretic" texts is a huge mistake IMHO; These are the preferred versions by those who deny Jesus is the Christ. When I read the notes in my New American Bible, it sounds like the people who wrote it don't even believe in God. When I read the notes in my Douay-Rheims, there's a beautiful richness to people who actually believe what they're writing. Supernatural events in my "Catholic" New American Bible are treated as mere plot points invented by "singular" authors to make some larger point that cannot be substantiated by the text (e.g. "Many modern Hebrew scholars and rabbis posit that the author of Genesis is using the narrative of a fantastical wordlwide flood as an illustration of..." vs. "The world was flooded in 1656 Anno Mundi; here are some specific details that God wanted Moses to include..."). It's refreshing to hear people teach the Bible and actually believe what they teach. When there are discrepancies between the Septuagint (3rd-2nd century B.C.) and the Masoretic texts (9th Century A.D.), Protestants and Jews tend to choose the Masoretic texts due the principle of "original language." This is a good principle, but truth is more important. The Dead Sea Scrolls are in the original Hebrew and Aramaic and have demonstrated that the Septuagint is far more reliable than the Masoretic Texts. The physical scroll fragments date back to the same time as the Septuagint, but if you read them, it's clear that the copies were made of much older original sources. Many of the new revisions are taking out the beautiful segments of the official Septuagint in order to favor a translation preferred by people who follow a fundamentally different religion. The Church always has authority to make such revisions--hopefully under the Holy Spirit--but we all know that some people in the Church with authority have a tendency to resist the known truth like the rest of us. The Douay-Rheims is poetry translated by English Catholics escaping to France following the apostasy of King Henry VIII and subsequent genocide of English Catholics; the New American Bible is a clunky treatise cobbled together by a committee of people too afraid to use the word "holocaust" for the sacrifices of the Old Testament in order to avoid offending sensitive modern-day Jews who are also offended by anyone saying Jesus Christ is Lord and God. It's a losing proposition to drop difficult points of faith in order to avoid upsetting those who don't want to hear the truth. Thank you for highlighting the importance of Latin in the Latin Rite Church. Teach your children their prayers in Latin! It's beautiful to hear a little child praying in Latin. ♥

This is a great discussion. The Latin as a daily chanter and patron..exists. Latin is being preserved, so that's very good. However, I can't pray in Latin. It's not from lack of trying. I am not participating at all when it's in Latin. So I when blocks of Latin come up, I stop the video and pray in English. That includes the Magnificat and even the Doxology, although that is short enough to not require stopping. I am not advocating for a change in format. I have my work arounds and am content. All of the chant is beautiful. But ultimately all Latin are just pretty syllables as an English speaker who has no training in the language. (I am even casually studying it) From my POV it doesn't matter how difficult it is to translate, how steady/superior the Latin is, or it's deep history in the Church. Bottom line, switch to Latin and I have become a concert goer and stopped being in prayer. It's as simple as, while appreciating what Latin brings. Again, love Sing the Hours and not looking for a change in format.

@chantsandrants

24 күн бұрын

This comment will appear in part 4. Which has not been recorded yet.

@atrifle8364

24 күн бұрын

@@chantsandrants - Awesome! I am looking forward to it. I've thought a lot about the issue, thanks in part to Sing the Hours. I need to be present in my prayer, as much as humanly possible. Passive prayer does exist, but the ordered use of language is communication. I need to learn to pray with my whole being. God, I am sure, does not need my repetitions of poorly pronounced Latin. When we pray with the world at the Liturgy of the Hours, it's in all different times, spaces, and tongues. The unity exists in the Spirit. Ironically, it's been my personal struggle bus with Sing the Hours that made me deeply appreciate Vatican II and see that the Holy Spirit was there. Anyway, your format is extremely well done. It both preserves the Latin and encourages active prayer. When I read St. Augustine's Confessions, he talked about singing the Psalms at one point. I thought how great that would be to do. The Holy Spirit eventually led me to your channel. Thanks for all your work. God bless you and Fr. Nathaniel and your family!

@jess96154

24 күн бұрын

I understand your experience. When I started learning some common Latin prayers it didn't feel as much like prayer as my prayer in English. (It probably never will fully since English is my first language and imo it seems that it takes a lot of work to make any secondary language as familiar as a primary language.) But I would encourage you to keep practicing. At least for me, over time and through repetition and practice, the Latin prayers have felt more like prayer, esp when the prayers are chanted.

Takeaways: Latin has gained its status as a sacred language through centuries of tradition and technically it is superior to any vernacular for worship by virtue of its fixedness. See also Peter Kwasnievski on Latin as our sacred language, plus mystery vs rationalism mindsets toward worship. I like your discussions a lot! Especially the floating notes

I really appreciate you addressing this topic. I think it's very important that Christians connect to a greater degree with their texts and traditions and one way to do this is by learning the original sacred and Liturgical languages. Regardless of how great and numerous our translations are, they don't bring across the full meaning (and beauty when it comes to chant) of the original languages. By learning these languages we can connect better with scripture, better with the saints, and better with the liturgy. Unfortunately in our modern world, learning these languages has fallen out of favor. But I'm happy to see things like veterum sapientia institute, living koine Greek programs, and guys like luke ranieri making the classical languages more popular and accessible again.

@chapelofthebeatitudes376

22 күн бұрын

Praise God for those who have the leisure time for such an endeavor. Please forgive me jess but your position reminds me of Marie Antoinette's response to hearing that her people were starving and didn't even have bread to eat. "Let them eat cake, she said". As for me, I am fed by The Bread of Life Our Lord Jesus Christ - sustenance of those whose lives are Living Psalmody... This is Eucharistic Renewal of the Heart. + For those who are not want + For those who have disappeared + For those awaiting execution + For those in the oppression of extinction + For those in the Passion of Waiting + ...and for all who share the journey -- Lord in your mercy, hear our prayer.

I grant that those who’ve formally studied Latin may particularly cherish worship in Latin. I grant that those who grew up “listening” to Latin worship offered by the trained also may cherish the sound of Latin. However, for the faithful lacking this background, they are being asked to worship in a foreign language. It’s one thing to learn frequently repeated prayers or the morning and evening Gospel canticles in Latin. Expecting those without Latin training to pray the Psalms in Latin has its risks. The Latin of the early Roman Church was the vernacular of the day. I would bet that the early church leaders would not have loved the idea of teaching their flocks that if they really wanted to please God, they needed to learn a different, special language. The Holy Spirit led the Apostles to realize the faith wasn’t about special diets or circumcision. It’s not about a traditional language.

@wjtruax

24 күн бұрын

I will counter your points with the universality of the Church, and the obvious advantage of maintaining an ecclesiastical language that allows unified, corporate worship between Christians from different language groups and cultures that otherwise would have very little in common. A very simple example is the fact that you can find recordings of both Pope St. John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI leading groups in Praying the Rosary in Latin. This common language allows Catholics from around the world to pray in unity with these men who, themselves, spoke different native languages from each other.

@atrifle8364

24 күн бұрын

@@wjtruax - The miracle of Pentecost is the Church speaking the Word of God in the tongue of the listener. We need to pray in consciously to be fully part of the Heavenly choir. God does not need the repetition Latin He invented, if we can't understand it. By all means, pray in Latin to preserve it and especially if you understand it. But don't ask all of us to forgo genuine communication with God for the sake of a unity of surficial form. Latin was chosen as the ecclesiastical language of the Roman church because it was everyone's 2nd language. If Vatican II had made the same decision as the Council of Trent, the Church would be using English.

@wjtruax

24 күн бұрын

@@atrifle8364 you’re not going to like what I say next. It sounds like you have no use for any language other than English.

@atrifle8364

24 күн бұрын

@@wjtruax - It's not from lack of trying to pray in Latin. I have tried. I even am studying Latin in 10 minute increments a day, despite many other responsibilities. We are not all given gifts equally. Some people are very fluent in the use of languages. I'm guessing you are, which is wonderful. But that lack of gift in me is not some sort of failing. It's just a gift God didn't give me. While my experience is not everyone obviously, I suspect I'm not alone either. Most people on the planet have the most mental flexibility, knowledge, and energy in their mother tongue. Thus the interesting word choice that was heavily circulated in the media from Pope Francis recently, in his mother tongue. (He's the son of Italian immigrants.). Again please pray in Latin if you can. It does have a deep history with the Church and, like Greek, is worthy of the preservation. As for me, I will quietly drop out and say it in English so that I can genuinely pray it.

@janetharrison9807

24 күн бұрын

@@atrifle8364 I understand your position.. I learned to chant the Our Father and Glory Be by rote.,.3 times a day for 3 months because I already know those prayers in English. Adore te I sung in English until I started singing it Latin from script, of course.Everything else has no connection if I'm listening in Latin. Even when Paul does the Cantile in Latin I make no attempt, I simply go for the English script

Where's part 2?

Paul what do you have against the baby😅😂

@chapelofthebeatitudes376

24 күн бұрын

Paul is the Baby’s Dad and when the baby tugs on his heart - his heart must answer.

If you are only sounding phonetically pronunciations disconnected from conscious understanding of the meaning how can that be conscious participation? And how does this not enable the clericalism?

God listens to your heart not the words of your lips.

“As of 2023 1.46 Billion people speak English around the world. Incredibly, this amounts to 18.07 of the global population, almost 1 in 5.” Notice it isn’t necessarily reading in English but rather auditory, speaking and understanding. Full conscious participation in the Liturgy through an audio format at a minimum would reach and engage the global millions of the home bound dying and their caregivers…

And lastly - if a vocation to the priesthood is predicated on fluency in Latin how is it possible for anyone especially from the Global Southern Hemisphere to become a priest. And further, how many years must be spent in acquiring fluency in Latin BEFORE being allowed to go out and feed the flock? Yep, sure sounds like back to European Clericalism 101.

@TheBeana71

23 күн бұрын

They enter a seminary and learn Latin there, just like every other priest.

@chapelofthebeatitudes376

23 күн бұрын

And are they rejected from the seminary for an inability to acquire fluency in Latin when their native language isn't one of the European Romance Languages and bears no similarity to Latin. And if they are unable to adapt their own language and comprehension to the nuances of Latin even in accurate pronunciations is this yet another vocation denied? How many vocations to the priesthood were lost because they were Latin scholar failures? As Fr. Nathan states, they gave up teaching seminarians in Latin. Teaching in Latin was as a failed concept.

Chant's and rant's sing the house's kuya bro Paul rose English USA 🇺🇲🇺🇲 happy good morning Wednesday 🌅🌅🌅 mr bro Cris Claudio Gomez molina bicol Naga city Philippines filipino 🇵🇭🇵🇭 bless thank you heart love ❤️❤️❤️ prayer intention mass PM am family cousin 🙏🙏🙏 kuya cousin Jolo Enzo enchai Justin lovcnzo c Gomez Jolo cousin pharmacy's Christina ney Lorenzo c Gomez Enzo cousin accountancy Angelica c Gomez enchai cousin nursing amen 🕊️🕊️🕊️ June 16 2024 Sunday happy father Day 💕💕💕

Please forgive me but this sounds like a course in Clericalism 101 with a lab and home study. And you really need to speak directly to how Fr. Nathan’s position isn’t the case for clericalism. The only country including Latin as a required course is Germany. Isn’t it reducing lay participation to Karaoke simply singing sounds disconnected from meaning.

@jess96154

24 күн бұрын

Just as converts to catholicism have to learn Catholic theology and unfamiliar terms and are expected to memorize devotional prayers and liturgical prayers, I think Catholics should be willing to learn some of the common prayers in the church in the liturgical language of the rite that have been lost, thus connecting them to a greater degree to their tradition. This is the case in many of the eastern churches and has been the case throughout history. Many popes over the past century like Benedict xvi have encouraged this. Although learning Latin fluently would be nice, one can work on learning some of the common prayers (pater noster, ave maria, Sanctus, etc) and over time these prayers and the meaning of the words become familiar. I would say a similar thing to Protestants with regards to Greek and Hebrew.

@chapelofthebeatitudes376

23 күн бұрын

Dear Jess -- no where in Our Lord's portrait given us in the Beatitudes is there the requisite to be praying in Latin, or Greek, or Hebrew not even " common liturgical prayers" for the Lord to hear your prayer. Remember also that -- I am merely trying to draw attention to the intercessory quality of the Liturgy especially in Liturgy of the Hours that is experienced through the vernacular. If the worse thing to happen in your life is losing your cell phone or not having a WiiFi connection -- the importance of God With US may not be the understanding that gets you through the next moment. Liturgy of the Hours is Sanctification of Time -- the very living into our journey spoken of in the Psalms, the in the Prayer our Lord taught us when asked how to pray,The Magnificat of the lowly... these all speak to those who know their need of God. I ask you who is it then than is needing to hear me praying in Latin? Who?

@chapelofthebeatitudes376

23 күн бұрын

Consider the 2nd Ant. and Psalm of today's evening prayer -- The Lord will save the children of the poor and rescue them from slavery ( Jess -- that IS someone's actual lived experience in this moment!) For he shall save the poor when they cry and the needy who are helpless, He will have pity on the weak and save the lives of the poor. Praise God! It doesn't matter whose translation -- which Council approved it or didn't -- And as Mary our Mother bearing witness to the Love of her Son at the foot His Cross -- you and I are bearing witness the reality of God's Love IN the lives of people. Liturgy of the Hours may be all they have because there is no priest, and they merged the parishes so there is no mass, no community, all they have is -- KZread Sing the Hours. Do you truly understand that there are people - thousands of people locally and globally - for whom the internet is their only access to the Liturgy. That's it! that is all they got. If you hunger for holiness, God will satisfy your longing, good measure and flowing over -- and Paul Rose, stood up and answered -- Here, I AM, I come to do your will...