I made a similar video to this one a few years ago, but I feel I could make my point a bit better now. More regular content will be coming as planned. Expect a lot of regular stories, but I'm also gonna be experimenting a lot like this.

@ricoselkum

Жыл бұрын

You felt you could do better and you nat 20 :D I do miss the shore landscape, I use to play a minigame where I cheered when the sea covered all the sand xD

@dr3dg352

Жыл бұрын

You're my favorite KZreadr! I'm excited to see what you come up with. 😊

@NeroLucifarious

Жыл бұрын

You should roll persuasion to see if I'll listen to ignoring the rule.

@critcrabsmissingburger

Жыл бұрын

Father please

@miguelfaria5017

Жыл бұрын

Sounds great!

One that annoys me is when players get a nat 20 on perception and get upset when they don't find the thing they're looking for. Even though the thing they're looking for isn't in the room.

@brunohommerding3416

Жыл бұрын

YES, people need desperatly to understand that nat 20 means you get the best result possible, and not what you want. And sometimes the best result is just not wasting time searching for something that isnt there

@caioaugusto3138

Жыл бұрын

"Your guts tells you that X should not be in this room at all. Looking closer at the ground you see small scratch marks that indicate that X could be on the next room or on a room that connects to it."

@gramfero

Жыл бұрын

...why was the player rolling perception?

@cinderguard3156

Жыл бұрын

This is why I rarely ever let the player roll. In my games, the dice roll represents chance, and if what you want truly isn't possible in my game, I simply won't let you roll. Ever since I started doing it thus way it also helped pick up the pace at my games too. Edit. I also follow a personal rule that if the play is greeted to succeed, I also won't let them roll, I just say they do it.

@rockinslugz

Жыл бұрын

That's when you say "It's not here."

“I want the shopkeeper to give me all his money.” “Ok. Roll for persuasion.” “Nat 20!” “The shopkeeper laughs at your funny joke and doesn’t get his Orc bodyguard to throw you into the street. He gives you a small discount for being amusing.”

@robno1033

Жыл бұрын

Or you could just... Not allow the roll in the first place?

@theghostshark_

Жыл бұрын

@@robno1033 but thats less fun

@trillionbones89

Жыл бұрын

@@robno1033 it's funny because they are secretly rolling for something else

@Rabijeel

Жыл бұрын

You are so sweet to that Player - don't be so nice. He succeeds - and the Keep gives him the Money - and later Reports him for extortion. Hard to argue otherwise with that demand - and niceness can be threatening as fuck. Just think your Mom saying "Please".

@aslangoral6022

Жыл бұрын

​@@Rabijeel this is the same thing as giving money to a homeless guy then calling the cops cause you feel cheated

I'm reminded of the person who apparently rolled a Nat 20 when telling the king to hand over his kingdom to the character and the DM ruled that the Nat 20 merely meant that the king took it in good spirits and laughed it off rather than had the character executed. Nat 20 does not mean "whatever insane idea you can conceive automatically works".

@sirsire3546

Жыл бұрын

It means "the best possible outcome" which, in the case of a player making such a ridiculous ask was for it to be taken as a joke

@wolf1066

Жыл бұрын

@@sirsire3546 Yep. I also tend to reward non-critical, but still impressive, results. e.g. if roll + stat + skill + situation DMs results in vastly exceeding the score needed to succeed, I'll say things like "not only did you succeed, but onlookers were impressed" or "you not only fixed the problem, you spotted something else that would have become a problem later down the track and fixed that, too," or something similar. For some planned or obvious skill rolls (e.g. awareness checks for particular/important locations/people/items) I even plan different results for different Difficulty Levels (I'm running modded Cyberpunk) so if they roll enough to succeed an "Average", challenge, they would gain more information than they would get if they merely rolled enough to succeed at an "Easy" challenge and the information just keeps going up the higher score they get. Easy: a middle-aged man wearing a tidy suit... Near Impossible: you are noticing signs of a violent past in the scarring on his knuckles, faint signs of tattoo-removal on the backs of his hands, how expensively _tailored_ (and probably armoured) the suit is and the slight bulges in key places that suggest weapons hidden beneath it... You *_still_* don't achieve things that would be completely impossible, regardless of how well you roll. Even if your stat is 10, your skill is 10, you're at +5 due to enhancements/advantages and you roll two consecutive 10s, you don't get Saburo Arasaka handing over the deeds to Head Office with a smile.

@FrankyBabes

Жыл бұрын

Well indeed. Otherwise you've got effectively a 1/20 chance of rewriting reality, which is... OP

@wolf1066

Жыл бұрын

​@@FrankyBabes And that's regardless of what level you are or what your stats are, too. it's ridiculous to suppose it means "automatic success". There's a critical success mechanic in Cyberpunk where rolling a Natural 10 on a 1D10 means you get to roll 1D10 again and add that to your score. So basically a 1-in-10 chance of adding 1-10 to your score - it *_might_* enable you to succeed at a task that would be otherwise impossible if you roll high enough on the second D10. Then again, it might not give you enough, either. However, you also have a 1-in-10 chance of rolling a 1, which is a "critical failure" and you have to roll on the dreaded "Fumble Table" and risk completely screwing everything. Regardless of what your stats or skill level is, you have this 1-in-10 chance of "Critical Failure" and subsequently you have a 6-in-10 chance (5 and up on the die) of screwing the pooch to greater or _even greater_ degrees. 1-in-10 chance of getting a chance at pulling off a Very Difficult or Nearly Impossible task vs 1-in-10 chance of getting a 60% chance of wrecking everything.

@wolf1066

Жыл бұрын

@@Tiny_Boats_And_Bikes I expected a worse outcome than that, tbh. I thought you were all going to wind up in a cell awaiting the headsman or something. I hope the party were able to expose the impostor later.

I once had a DM who made a rule that rolling Nat 1 on initiative makes you miss your first turn. This backfired spectacularly when the one and only time it happened was a boss missing their turn.

@Zaws21

Жыл бұрын

> After rolling initiative but before the DM rolls his "The boss is a giant chromatic ancient dragon, that blazes with every step it takes towards you, and as he approaches you all it opens it's mouth and *Nat 1 Initiative* kinda... Stands there...? He's not doing much, but he's there..."

@Chronicoverburn

Жыл бұрын

I love this rule nat 20 on initiative should give you a bonus attack then reroll initiative or something..

@Robobot1

Жыл бұрын

I like that idea but it's a good opportunity to flavor it. You stumble but manage to get you footing. Or the boss was a little panicked

@taserrr

Жыл бұрын

I rule nat1/20 on initiative grants you advantage/disadvantage on the first action you take.

@timothymarks1041

11 ай бұрын

@@Zaws21 If that happened to me, I would describe it as the ancient dragon swallowing a bug at the worst possible time, thus wasting his turn trying to cough it up and letting his guard down - allowing the party to get in their first round of hits.

"No, but" and "Yes, however". Good for crits. "I rolled a nat 20 do i get the 100 gold?" "No, but the shopkeeper has an errand you can run for them for the gold." "I rolled a nat 20 do i get to solve the puzzle even if i have 4 int?" "Yes, however you sort of leaned against the wall, tripped a bit and crashed into the puzzle. Things sort of Rube Goldberg, and as the party watches in dismay that you managed to cock it all up, the pieces fall into place and suddenly the door opens."

@jackmack4181

Жыл бұрын

The dm: you somehow screwed up so badly the puzzle solved itself

@AngelusNielson

Жыл бұрын

you know what else the DM is doing wrong? Letting the guy steamroll over him entirely.

@timwoods2852

Жыл бұрын

Flavor texts like these are part of the appeal/charm of the unconventional nat 20s and 1s. It's the creative way that you managed to succeed or screw up that adds to the fun, *and* can make a situation feel a bit more realistic. Just because the barbarian can hit something very hard doesn't mean he can't trip over his own loincloth, expose himself, and have his hammer bonk him on the head.

@AngelusNielson

Жыл бұрын

@@timwoods2852 Actually it's much better to talk to the problem player like an adult and let them know there are some problems rather than be passive aggressive like that.

@timwoods2852

Жыл бұрын

@@AngelusNielson Oh, you're talking about the player from the beginning of the video. We're talking about the fun mechanics of making nat 20s and 1s work in context without being completely ridiculous.

In my first session of D&D many years ago, a Nat 1 (on a roll that was not really needed but the wizard really wanted to) made a funeral pyre into a massive forest fire. The emotion change from sad and beautiful to full on panic was rather hilarious.

@elias.t

Жыл бұрын

Our priest tried to charm his way into infiltrating a bandit gang by staging and then putting out a fire in their manor headquarters. He miserably failed and accidentally burned down the entire manor with most of the bandits inside.

@aguyontheinternet8436

Жыл бұрын

@@elias.t task failed successfully?

@PluslePlayzYT

Жыл бұрын

@@elias.t I mean he killed the bandits

A great take on critting an unachievable roll was persuading the king to turn over the crown to the player. On a 20 the king finds this hilarious, and doesn't have you chained up in a cell.

@zeehero7280

Жыл бұрын

Maybe he offers you a job as a Jester!

@themaskedhobo

Жыл бұрын

Player1: "I try to seduce the dragon" rolls nat 20 DM1: "The dragon finds your terrified attempts to survive via romantic advances absolutely hilarious, after it goads you into giving more complements you are rewarded by being allowed to leave alive"

@jimskywaker4345

Жыл бұрын

@@themaskedhobo naaa, you have the dragon be convinced, and add them to the horde.

@OzixiThrill

Жыл бұрын

Personally, I would consider ruling it the other way around. If you fumble it, the king views it as a joke. If you succeed... The king takes your demands seriously and has you arrested for sedition, along with the rest of the potential co-conspirators. Because ultimately, you did manage to convince the king that you genuinely wanted his crown. The issue is, there is no way in hell he would give it up for a few nice words (unless the crown is some cursed thing that can only be passed on to a willing recipient, but that sort of thing reqires some preparation ahead of time). Do remember, the players being successful and doing something stupid should not mean that they get good results. Sticking your head under a guillotine and releasing the blade should be a difficult acrobatics and dextery check, but managing to pull it off won't make that blade bounce off the player's neck.

@kardoxfabricanus7590

Жыл бұрын

Should've given them a quest to prove if they're worthy for a role of commander, administrator OR advisor etc. This makes the NAT 20 worth it but also gives the player the chance to use every skill to prove themselves to the king that they can be a valuable asset resulting in more privileges.

I have a soft spot for a nat 1 on a skill check to result in (where appropriate) a comedic type of failure, rather than a catastrophic type of failure. Like if someone does an Investigation check to try and track where someone went and gets a nat 1, their character decides that an excellent way to figure this out would be to lick the dirt on the ground. Or some hilariously obvious observation akin to "This floor is made out of floor."

@sethb3090

Жыл бұрын

Your character finds an outline in the wall that turns out to be where they were going to install the hidden door before they changed their mind and put the secret room somewhere else

@DigitalRageDragon

Жыл бұрын

I agree, I like adding flavor text to Nat 1s or 20s, but not necessarily having actual impact.

@Sorain1

Жыл бұрын

Player in the party (a ninja) rolls a 20 on disguise to hide themselves in the scene. DM:"You are now the least suspicious thing in the entire scene." Player in the party (the fighter) rolls a 1 on perception to check for ambush. Fighter: "Oh my god! A rock!" Ninja: "Aww damn, you found me!" Absolutely my favorite interaction of extreme rolls in my entire time gaming.

@sev8304

Жыл бұрын

My favorite interpretation was in Dimension 20's Fantasy High. It became a running joke that the half-orc of the group (who has never met his parents) would roll for an insight check, do poorly, and ask if a specific male character was their dad, no matter how impossible it is be it a human or an archdemon. One time, he rolled a Nat 1 and had a mental breakdown as to whether or not he was his own dad.

@Sorain1

Жыл бұрын

@@sev8304 Time to prove that time travel isn't possible then, clearly!

For us, a Nat 20 has always meant "the best, reasonably possible result". Especially in RP situations. No automatic absolute success. Just because you rolled a Nat 20 on your persuade check doesn't mean the Guard believes you're their superior. But they wont arrest you immediately for trying ^^

@blueturtle3623

Жыл бұрын

I agree, I also like to reward creativity in role play. The guard might believe that the PC is their superior if they were actually convincing in the RP of it. If they said "I try to convince him..." probably not. But if they spun a whole creative web, I kinda can't help but be like "On that Nat 20, he believes that you are his superior as a result of a specific detail you mentioned that only the actual superior would know, albeit accidentally" Im also used to some very chaotic campaign.

@mahpell7173

Жыл бұрын

I believe some people use consequtive nat 20 rule to estimate, how impactful would be success. So if you roll it three times in a row - that's your "do whatever the f you want glorious success".

Nat 20 only works if the result desired is actually possible. You don't have a 5% chance of standing broad jumping the grand canyon at its widest point. But I will let you roll to see how successful you were at making it to the bottom.

@valivali8104

Жыл бұрын

What about something looking like success? Like character using Intimidate against mountain and rolls natural 20, so there’s avalanche or similar which character could interpret as mountain getting scared.

@realdragon

Жыл бұрын

If everybody would have 5% chance to detect lie from Asmodeus the prince of lies he wouldn't be called prince of lies

@xenosayain1506

Жыл бұрын

That's how we do it extraordinary luck is how treat it. Good or bad. But it still has to be in the realm of possibility.

@kylemendoza8860

Жыл бұрын

That's when you just say you can't roll

@jurrassicjonas3332

Жыл бұрын

@@kylemendoza8860 counterpoint sometimes you don't want a player to know immediately whether something is possible or not. And you can still use the number from the roll to determine how badly the failure went.

In the opening scenario, if I were DM, I would have said, “Oh good a Nat 20, the shopkeep doesn’t try to kill you for your massive disrespect.”

@blong217

Жыл бұрын

A nat 20. The shopkeep gives you 1 silver to leave his store and never come back.

@jek__

Жыл бұрын

Honestly if someone already knows youre trying to screw them over, rolling higher on your persuasion check just makes you look like more of a smarmy dick. Theyre not gonna just forget what youre doing because youre so charismatic. I guess that's something thats sometimes lost in translation from a medieval peasant to a modern one - common sense and attention span. lol

"You run into a 6 ft thick metal vault door" "I try to kick it down" "Roll for athletics" "Nat 20!" "Congrats, you do not break your foot".

@sleezyskater409

Жыл бұрын

•_•

@formidableplays4750

Жыл бұрын

Yesterday was my first session and immediately after my character was introduced and freed from the trap, I tried to kick down a nearby wooden door with metal studs. I rolled an 8 (+2) for my strength check and failed. However, right after I decided to swing my Warhammer to break it and rolled a natural 20 (my first nat 20) and the door just flew off its hinges and we got inside the room. The session ended there and all we know is that the room was living quarter of some sort and had a bunch of beds.

@infamouse9263

Жыл бұрын

Tbf in a world where you have to beat up giants, dragons, and a lot of other monsters kicking down a metal vault door isn’t that hard

@yatosjumpsuit6837

11 ай бұрын

@@infamouse9263Depends on their level and strength. If a level 1 wizard tried that? Obviously not going to work. A level 20 barbarian? He blasts the metal door off it’s hinges and launches it across the room.

@infamouse9263

11 ай бұрын

@@yatosjumpsuit6837 yeah I’d understand a low level wizard not being able to but I’m just saying in a world where you fight beings that can destroy the world if not the universe, it seems a little silly that anything LV 10 or above can’t kick down a metal door

I've always ran it as "Nat 20 has the best possible result, Nat 1 has the worst possible result, but neither guarantee success or failure.". For example: The party comes to the royal palace and meets the King and Queen. The bard of the party decides to flirt with the Queen in a semi-serious fashion. On a Nat 20, the Queen will tell the Bard that she is flattered and perhaps in another life she may have considered their offer, but she is lovingly married to her husband and does not seek another. On a Nat 1, the Queen is offended greatly and proceeds to warn the Bard that if he speaks to her in such a disrespectful manner again, he will be imprisoned, tortured, and executed. It may not be the best way, but I've found it works best for me and my players.

@The..Boulder

Жыл бұрын

Something very similar happened to me! led a Nat20 when I tried to intimidate a king into letting me marry his daughter. My Dm said that the king laughed at me and continued as if nothing happened. I complained because I told him that I rolled the nat 20. The DM's reply?... " The king thought you were joking and moved on. Had you rolled lower, he might have took you seriously and killed you on a spot for showing such disrespect and making such demands." Best DM I ever played with. Because he was tough but a fair.

@tytoalba605

Жыл бұрын

Yup dm npcs have agencies to they can have there own motives. They are not all Sims who build relationship points making them willing to abandon their lives for a life with the player charecter. I mean a loyal lawful good queen would still be offended she would seek the most peaceful out but would by law of the country need punish the bard she may let it slide knowing her ng king won't be as kind. Also its important to state that npcs scale with players ie you can't strong arm anyone because you don't of up past them

@danrimo826

Жыл бұрын

I think this is the best way

@kylemendoza8860

Жыл бұрын

You role for a chance of failure are success. So I think a 20 and a one should always be success and failure. Not necessarily critical success or critical failure.

@KB_13247

Жыл бұрын

i dunno i like nat 20's to be more powerful. for something like that i might make them roll a followup. like first nat 20 the queen tells the bard that and blushes, then i have him roll again, nat 20 again and she's totally having a secret tryst with him later.

Most players I run for usually focus on only rolling skill checks they have good stats for. When a strong capable character rolls a nat 20 on an achievable skill check, I always make the outcome greater than the intention. I’ve found that players with low skill modifiers tend to shy away from rolling those skill checks at all, making situations like a nat 20 on a dump stat roll an unlikely event done in desperation. In that case, the tension is high and a nat 20 is even more memorable lol

@joshuamills2448

Жыл бұрын

Proud DM moment was my players resolved a situation by figuring out who was the most skilled (it was the Ranger for a survival check) and letting that player have their moment. They didn't roll exceptionally well but I gave them enough info to figure out what they were looking for.

@MalloonTarka

Жыл бұрын

Usually, you get players only rolling low stats in desperation, but sometimes you get a situation where no one has good stats for that or else the person with the stats would not naturally do that. My 10 Charisma fighter has quite unintentionally become the face of the party in our _Curse of Strahd_ campaign because he's reasonably intelligent (14 Int) and talkative... that's it. (Despite us having a Paladin with much better Charisma, but who is quite taciturn.) Meaning he's pretty good at thinking up solutions/compromises/reasonable arguments, less good at convincing people he's right. Thankfully the rest of the party is quite willing to look impressive and competent and give him a boost, but it's quite fun stumbling along knowing you'll fail about half the time and need to look for alternative solutions. Such as ("Oh well, I tried") violence.

@CorrosiveCitrus

Жыл бұрын

That's pretty similar to how it's ruled in the DMG. I think the rules on crit success and failure are pretty good in there and what I personally use :)

This is why I think it's important to have a rules lawyer in the group. The rules are there to make things consistent and fair. That being said it's extremely important to have said rules lawyer be willing to accept the GM has ultimate say. Fun>story>rules

@coreylemon

Жыл бұрын

"Rules Civil Servant"

@theknight1573

Жыл бұрын

Thats basically me, I am the guy that looks up all spell descriptions, rules and whatever applies. If I cannot find an answer, I turn to forums and reddit to get other people's input. Then I provide my findings to our DMs (we have a couple people that switch being DM for their own campaigns) and players and we come to an agreement that provides the most fun whilr respecting the RAI most of the time

@militarymann01

Жыл бұрын

@@theknight1573 usually when someone tries to do something outside the scope of the common rules I typically look it up (if I don't know the rule, which isn't usually the case) and say something along the lines of "this is how it's supposed to be done per the rules but..."

I've even noticed that in shows like Critical Role, Matt has been making a stronger effort to temper expectations for nat 20's on skill checks. You can see the players get hype and shout "natural 20!" and Matt quickly interjects and says "For a total of?" I have even tried to remain conscious of my own mistakes in assuming a success. You are not alone in this, Crablord.

@NWolfsson

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, in the first season and most of the second they've kept the 3.5/Pathfinder rule of automatic success, but I guess with the weight they're having either they chose internally or Wizard pushed for more respect of the rules, especially one as emblematic as this one.

@ShadowAraun

Жыл бұрын

On the opposite end of the spectrum I dm alot of pathfinder 1e and late game combat turns into "are any of your rolls a 1 or a crit threat?" Since at that point full BAB nearly auto hits anyway, especially against mooks

@eXJonSnow

Жыл бұрын

The problem with that is that Matt also tends to treat nat 1’s as auto fails on skill checks, even if they have reliable talent. It’s one of the few things I dislike about his DM’ing style, where a 1 almost always fails but a 20 doesn’t guarantee success (not saying it should, btw)

@themakerstoolbox9688

Жыл бұрын

​@@eXJonSnowI have never seen him rule against reliable talent. Other than that I don't know if a Nat 1 has a possibility of succeeding unless if you have a +9. DC 10 is usually the lowest possible skill check.

@eXJonSnow

Жыл бұрын

@@themakerstoolbox9688 I don't remember specifics off the top of my head, but I think there were a couple situations where Veth/Nott failed something with a 1 (like a Stealth check), even though reliable talent brought it up to like a 20 or something. It just seems inconsistent, to check for the total from a 20, but not for a 1. Especially with something like Guidance, a 1 could still come out to a semi-decent roll.

The GM's first mistake is continuing to allow Craig to keep playing at his table! The second mistake is allowing Craig to roll for something that NEEDS NO ROLL!!!

"Have fun regardless." With those three words, CritCrab explains how every RPG should be played. I want it on a crab sticker

I was in a modern dnd group where we were all college students, see Fantasy High but we're all of age, and had a problematic character. She made a half-orc barbarian who was chaotic evil. The rest of us were neutral to good. She always went against what we wanted and her character never made sense. Like, she had (I think) the lowest intelligence of the group, something like -3 and sometimes, when she didn't want to listen to our characters explain something to her would say, "Geela doesn't understand that," but other times when we would try to use her constant misunderstanding of the world against her to trick her suddenly Geela was too smart to be tricked. It was exhausting. Our druid had taken Hold Person and would use it to stop her from getting us into trouble. She got mad when my character grappled her to stop her from taking a new ally's eye out of his head because we told someone else we owed them a glass eye because of a misunderstanding and a fight we had. That's the kind of player this was. So at one point we're in a factory trying to figure out what a shady company is doing abs we're all trying to plan our next step. Geela got bored I guess and punched a tank with what we leave learned very quickly wereanimals inside. Alarms are going off, doors that we could have gone through are closing, and all the wereanimals are attacking. I'm the only one who got hit that failed a con save after the fight. DM starts to say I'll become a werebear but we'll get to that when it happens. Luckily druid reminds me I'm immune to diseases, but this was still her fault that we even got into the fight. So we start looking at one of the metal doors that shut and she punches it to see if she can open it. Nat 20. DM says the door stays shut but is dented slight now and she takes no damage. She's so mad. "It's a nat 20 though!" DM told her the nat 20 is the best outcome, and her best case scenario was taking no damage to her hand when punching a reinforced metal door. Honestly, I could go on with all the things she did and said. It got to the point where her boyfriend, the guy that asked if she could join, said, "Geela is not fun to play with..."

I always go by the adage of "never let your players roll for something that you either don't want them to succeed at or don't want them to fail at." If it's literally impossible for them to do the thing they're trying to do - or incredibly narratively, mechanically, etc inappropriate - they don't roll for it. Also, in the case of a Nat 20 I always ask what it is they're trying to do with the Nat 20, and then I adapt that to what's happening rather than *necessarily* do that verbatim, in the same way I would a backstory. If what they're after is good - then great, it happens - if what they want is unacceptable, then something similar happens instead.

@kirapainter9382

Жыл бұрын

That’s always been my thought. If you don’t think something should be possible it’s reasonable to say no, you can’t do that don’t roll for it. Maybe roll for this separate but related thing that is possible instead.

@marhawkman303

Жыл бұрын

@@kirapainter9382 for example, in the home game we've been doing, we had a scenario where the party needed to get info from some cult of the Dragon weirdos. given the module... it's obvious that you're expected to fight them. they and the dragon are the only real enemies in town, everything else is a mindless monster. Yeah, we didn't fight the dragon either. We actually got him to draw us a map to find our actual goal, since he was supposed to be a mini-boss not the main boss anyways.

@Atlessa

Жыл бұрын

In a similar vein: Don't assign an HP pool to a creature you don't want the party to kill, because as soon as you DO assign a number, the players WILL find a way to bring that number down to 0 (or even -10 if necessary)

@legendgames128

Жыл бұрын

@@Atlessa "Don't assign an HP pool to a creature you don't want the party to kill" I hereby make a monster that has an HP pool that disagrees with you.

@SilvrSavior

Жыл бұрын

Addendum: Never assign stats to something that is not to be killed. If it is a god and should never be beatable by the PCs, then it should never have stats. It can have effects, but never stats.

I love the way Shadowrun's dice system works. One example: I played a character that ended up becoming an insect shaman. Really long story short, a player used magic sense on me. This is a totally normal thing for most "magically awakened" characters, but the table specifically sais that you cannot sense if someone is "corrupted", like with insect spirits. However, the table goes up to 6 successes, and the player got 14. The GM decided to tell the player about my deep dark secret. Granted, it was a bit of a douche move towards me, but it really shows how interesting dice pool systems can be.

@beardiemom

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, similar with Vampire the Masquerade. Though we honestly don't roll a ton in that one, but dice pools make for really interesting results, as does the fact that in VtM, difficulty is flexible. (Difficulty meaning the lowest number that would grant a success on a roll) So while one player might have a difficulty of 6 (on a D10), and another player might have modifiers that bend that difficulty on that same roll to a higher or lower number with the lowest being 2 and the highest being 10. I had players try to deceive a vampire elder to save their murderhobo friend and they rolled so f*cking high alongside great RP, that he just agreed to forget about this unfortunate incident, as long as said murderhobo friend never puts a foot on his property ever again. He still was suspicious about their behaviour, but they did manage to convince him that they didn't want anything from him other than their friend back with all limbs still in place. However, this system also can become very exploitable: I currently play a character who has hightened sense sight, a specialty in her perception on sight and a vampiric ability that lowers her difficulty on perception checks by one. As a result, I roll 7d10 with a difficulty of 3 on any sight-based perception checks and am allowed to reroll all 10s (indefinitely). And while 1s negate successes, the ones from rerolls don't. Eventually, this will backfire on me, but until then, I am the second most perceptive member of the group after the madman.

@Tomicrat

Жыл бұрын

The "dice pool Success" system has always been my preferred mechanics in RPGs. Also Prairie Dog shamans rock!!! 😜

@Nerobyrne

Жыл бұрын

@@beardiemom Yeah, I remember my friend once made a thief character that stacked a bunch of bonuses to the point where, according to RAW, only Elder Dragons were capable of rolling to defend against pickpocket attempts from her. As in, everyone else had so many minus dice that they couldn't even attempt the roll! However, the player was cool about it and didn't do insane things like pickpocket equiped armor. However, the sentence "I hand you your phone" came up frequently ^.^

@beardiemom

Жыл бұрын

@@Nerobyrne Nice one xD Honestly, I don't mind when players have a character that is insanely good at doing a certain thing, as long as they don't use it to constantly derail the plot and deprive other players of their agency. It can be insanely fun to have a group of players in which everybody has their specialty and can do things that their teammates can't even dream of. (I know I am literally describing the way shadowrun should be played) One player in my Shadowrun group, where we took turns GMing, did take it to the extreme, though: He made a character that had 8 edge and he frequently used it to do the impossible. Well, he now is the GM for the VtM-game in which I play the previously mentioned character and has to live with the fact that there is next to nothing that she can't spot, unless it is hidden with magical means. And when her powers grow, even those magical means are going to be more of a minor obstacle than a real dealbreaker. She is, however, incredibly arrogant and while she is great at visual perception and can be *highly* empathetic, if she pays attention, things regularly fly under her radar because she deems them unimportant. 😅

@Nerobyrne

Жыл бұрын

@@beardiemom "One player in my Shadowrun group, where we took turns GMing, did take it to the extreme, though: He made a character that had 8 edge and he frequently used it to do the impossible." Ah yes, I built a character like that once. I was like "this is too easy. 8x8 bonus dice per session is OP. I have to counter-balance it with something. So I made him live out of a car on purpose, to "fight the power". He was basically a homeless bum that kept "accidentally" slipping all over the battlefield, which magically resulted in him winning ^^

It's important to note that there already are critical success and failure rules in 5e. They are in the DMG (p. 242), if you succeed with a 20, or fail with a 1, you add something extra to that success/failure. I like this approach the best personally and it's how I run my games. If something is impossible, just don't roll for it. As per the using ability scores rule in the DMG (p. 237). Same as when something is easy and has no chance of failure.

@Steampunk_Kak

Жыл бұрын

and what happens when the player adamantly still wants to roll? are you gonna be the ahole DM not allowing player choice?

@CorrosiveCitrus

Жыл бұрын

@@Steampunk_Kak Just because something is impossible and you don't roll doesn't mean you don't attempt, you just automatically fail If you have a weird player who will throw a tantrum because they can't roll a die, first, why are they at your table? And second, just let them roll, ask for their modifier, and tell them it fails. The lower they roll the worse the consequence.

@Brent-jj6qi

Жыл бұрын

I will note, crit successes and fails are a thing for saves

@pudding2675

Жыл бұрын

@@Steampunk_Kak TIL its being the ahole DM to consider pacing of the very real-life time commitment of a TTRPG session by cutting out needless dice rolls for deeds that arent even up to chance. Just because one player feels entitled wanting to roll a literally impossible roll and waste everyones time at the table by merit of passive-aggressive main protagonisting doesn't mean the DM has to put up with it. That goes in the same vein as requiring rolls for mundane tasks when the DM says you succeed.

I have been in the "nat 20 means something amazing every time!" camp for a while when listening to stuff and playing simple systems without many rules (i.e. rudimentary /roll systems in MMORPGs), but as I started playing D&D with my friends, I have slowly shifted my view. Every twentieth or so action being this amazing, supreme thing that just automatically got me out of trouble started to infringe on my character build (3.5e Int rogue, with an absurd amount of skill points per level and a horrid amount of max-ranked skills) - simply said, investing so highly in, say, lockpicking, trap making or knowledge meant a lot less if I could just luck out. Or others, who had no ranks in these skills whatsoever could just do the same if RNGesus was feeling benevolent. Same for the opposite, horribly failing on rolls with a modifier close to +20 (including inspirations, circumstantial bonuses etc) was just horribly anticlimactic and felt extremely out of character. Everyone has poor luck sometime, but a thief this good should not permanently jam a lock just because he's had awful luck, or a bard so smooth that he could convince a dragon to do a loop-de-loop for fun shouldn't struggle to haggle a price of a healing potion by three gold pieces and get banned from the store in the process. On the flipside, a rogue with the charisma modifier of -2 should not be able to haggle for potions *at all*, let alone land a daylight robbery level of a bargain just because the icosahedron landed on a specific number. I have since embraced the idea you spoke of, that of best/worst case scenario within reason. I much prefer it.

@KingBobXVI

Жыл бұрын

I agree, especially with critical failures. In a non-d&d game I'm in (Rifts, it uses a decader skill system - roll the two d10s and add up the result to get a number from 0-99, you want to roll _below_ your skill %), it gets annoying having horrendous failures by virtue of being the one using the skill more often. Like, my character pilots a spaceship, and at one point, I rolled a critical fail to land it, which resulted in a completely crashed ship and nearly dying, and bad in-universe rep as a pilot. The character's pilot skill is at like 85%, which is quite high, so it really shouldn't be a thing that can happen. I think another point though is that for basic things, rolls should just be omitted - if you're attempting something truly difficult, you know, a feat of skill, it should be rolled, but for the typical? Just auto-succeed. Like in D&D, a master lock picker shouldn't even need to roll to pick a common house lock.

I like the dungeon dude’s ruling. A nat 20 gives the best case scenario. Like, the BBEG finding the attempted flirting cute or humorous instead of casting disintegrate on them

The rule I'm currently using is that a nat 20 counts as a roll of 25, and a nat 1 counts as a roll of -5. All modifiers are added from there and the result checked. This makes it very clear to the players that nat 20 doesn't allow the impossible, that there are still limits to what it can achieve, but keeps it an exceptional result... and also enables highly skilled characters to reach a point where they simply can't fail in certain simple situations.

@harrisonhurst6480

Жыл бұрын

Pathfinder does something similar to this. A Nat 20 adds +10 to the result and a Nat 1 -10.

@krysbrynhildr

Жыл бұрын

I'm almost certain that 3.0 had a rule that was basically this for Nat 20s on skill checks, which generally meant success because +30 beats most sane DCs and insane DCs are for when you're playing with "Epic Levels" which every later edition stopped having entirely.

I usually allow nat20 shenanigans, if hey don't violate the rule of cool and rule of fun.

I always like the explanation of “the best *possible* outcome”. For example, a 20 on seduction with someone who would never be interested isn’t a huge social issue. They don’t turn the guards on them or take great offence. Instead of a nat 20 basically becoming brainwashing and turning an NPC into a romance slave. Imagine it on strength or athletics check on a character who simply wouldn’t be able to do something, let’s say an elderly wizard, now suddenly doing Olympic level feats of physical skill

@Ironfist85hu1

10 ай бұрын

Nice idea, thank you!

I like the way that pathfinder second does it - essentially, there are four tiers of success and failure (crit fail, fail, success, crit success) and when you roll a 20 on the die, it increases your tier by one - which does mean that there are still instances where you can fail with a natural 20

I think one of the best reasons for keeping RAW is that allowing amazing things to happen on a Nat 20 encourages Craig to roll lots and lots of Nat 20s by "fudging" rolls. Problem players in one way are often potential problem players in ALL ways.

@mrosskne

Жыл бұрын

fortunately you can just stop inviting idiots like Craig back to your game

Shit like the example story at the beginning is why people never roleplay anymore and just roll-play. DMs nowadays need to look their players in the eyes at times and just tell them no. There's nothing wrong with denying something fucking stupid from happening

@theraven9107

Жыл бұрын

I know right! I have a friend that DMs a game and who comes to me for advice sometimes, and his biggest weakness is that he can't say no to the people at the table who are either related to him or long time friends, resulting in 1 person who has more free reign in the spies guild than the person in the spies guild (because conveniently their the godchild of the guildmaster), 1 person whose backstory and personal goals became the main focus of the campaign for nearly 20 straight sessions (nearly a third of the campaign), and 1 person who was immortal via backstory (he was a mob spawned by a dungeon, and due to setting stuff that meant the dungeon could just spawn a new one with the same memories and everything once he died)

@rylian21

Жыл бұрын

Dadgum right. Why, back in my day, we used to beat our players with a switch to keep 'em in line. These young whippersnappers all about having "fun" and "community" don't know a thing. It's about suffering and control, I tells you. Wasn't a proper session unless we made someone cry.

@PsionicCavalier

Жыл бұрын

@@rylian21 You're not doing it right until you bust out the steel chair.

I’m a new DND player and I was absolutely under the impression if you got a Nat 20 you could just convince anyone of anything. I also just like chaos so the thought of the whole campaign changing due to someone just convincing this person to give him his farm for free or whatever sounds super fun..as a player and absolutely horrible for the dm potentially. Thank you for the info I’ll genuinely think about it everytime I play from now on.

The rule I went with after learning from Pathfinder 2nd Edition is treating Nat 1's and 20's as a step down or up respectively while the thresholds for critical success and failure are 10 points above or below respectively. In a sense it symbolizes doing the best of their abilities with a chance of the challenge being too much for their characters' skill level if not outright impossible. You can still succeed on a natural 1, but it just means your character is a bit off their game at the moment. Example: Difficulty Class of 20 Critical Success is 30 or above. A natural 20 can turn a critically failing 9 into a regular failure. Same nat 20 can also turn a failing 19 into a success. Critical Failure is 10 or below. A natural 1 can turn a critically successful 31 into a regular success. Same nat 1 can also turn a successful 20 into a failure.

I made a homebrew with my sibling and their character and the sidekick I made for them (since it was just us 2) kept on rolling horrible numbers and it was super funny bc both characters were trying to show off and be cool but end up failing... The sidekick tried climbing up the mayor's house to sneak in for info and he fell like three times at least so he finally just decide to use the frount door 😂

@realdragon

Жыл бұрын

DM introduced my new character to the party. Our artificer rolled something like 25 on investigation to look for something that will help with our mission, I rolled 3 on stealth and that's how they found my kobold in a bush "hiding"

I would also like to add: A Nat 1 outside of combat isn't an automatic failure, and a Nat 1 in combat doesn't cause a fumble such as hitting an ally, breaking a weapon, hitting yourself, or tossing your weapon across the room, it just says you miss the attack and nothing more.

@soultpp

Жыл бұрын

This! I always HATED when our GM added extra problems to Nat 1s. He was mostly one for the weapon toss thing for far too long. Don't think he's done it much recently though, to which I am exceedingly thankful. I think he thought it was funny but I never did regardless of it happening to me or any of the others in the party.

@MM-rz8hr

Жыл бұрын

I agree, but there are always exceptions. One time someone in my party had advantage from faerie fire on an attack and rolled two nat 1s while casting green flame blade. That itself doesn’t mean much, but then the player explicitly asked the DM to make the miss hit himself because of the critical failure and the DM agreed. He took damage from it, but because of how green flame blade works he also got fire damage off on the intended enemy (which was the goal anyway since it was weak to fire). For me this is an exception because it was done in good fun and at the request of the player it might disadvantage. It was also very funny.

@krysbrynhildr

Жыл бұрын

Unless you're using the official optional rules for Critical Failures that have been a supplement to the game since 2nd Edition (though it only was included in the DM's guide from 3.0 onwards). A lot of these things aren't just "this weird house rule tons of people randomly came up with" they're official variant rules for spicing up the game that enough grognards liked to insist it was the base rules to the newbies they were trying to indoctrinate.

@Miix151

3 ай бұрын

​@@MM-rz8hrcool

I always liked how my forever DM did it; a nat 20 doesn't necessarily mean you succeed but it can cause things that maybe shouldn't happen to at least be possible, depending on what the roll is trying to do the impossible just became pretty hard. Trying to seduce a dragon? It will work but you better speak dragon, and how to actually flirt with one. Want to get a npc shop keeper to give you money? Sure but you better have a cover story something like; "Im a gold inspector" and hope they buy it.

Gotta love random Nat20’s. My dragonborne was stuck in a room filling with water and with a Nat20 my level 5 paladin ripped a stone podium from the earth and threw it into a wall to try and escape. The wall didn’t break but it definitely was a cool adrenaline filled moment for us all.

Has anyone seen an unsupervised burger?

I really like the relaxing final fantasy fishing going on in the background. I hope over the course of these videos we get to see the fishing level slowly go up for the crab king

Often in many TTRPG books, DnD included if I remember correctly, state that you should only allow rolls for things that are possible, where meaningful consequences can occur should it result in failure. If its straight up impossible, no roll necessary, it doesn't work, and you need to try something else. If its something way to simple, like opening a door that isn't locked or trapped but is just kind of heavy, no roll required. Just let them open it and maybe let the party know it might take some time to open, assuming time is a factor that matters in your campaign in a significant way.

@sethb3090

Жыл бұрын

That's true, but I keep a fourth category - for when someone's being obnoxious and repeatedly asking to roll despite clear warnings.

@notapplicable6985

Жыл бұрын

In other rpg books, that the dm rolls things like perception for the players, because they will metagame regardless

A nat20 isn't always an automatic success, sometimes there's things that are, by design, impossible. If I was the DM of the player that wants to do something impossible, I wouldn't even allow them to even roll and, if they insisted a lot, I would let them roll and, no matter how high the roll is, it'll be a fail and shut down any problematic shenanigans that wanted to do. And if they get mad because of this, I would kick them.

I always thought this was a smooth brain home rule. Sure, you can roll to see if you can jump to the moon, but no one can ever simply jump to the moon, so you're gonna fail. On a 20, you might get some flavor about how great your effort was, but you'll still fail. Also, I'm pretty sure I've read official content with DC checks of 30, which are meant to fail, even on a 20, if you lack the appropriate modifiers. Failing on a 20 just seems like an integral part of the game's design. So extremely difficult strength tasks won't be possible for twiggy arm wizards who dumped their strength stat and scenarios like that.

Sometimes making the NAT 20 a fun role like nothing is here yet you roll nat 20 on perception? "You see 6 giants above you eldritch creatures towering over you for a few seconds, holding onto a person and dangling them around until they move them closer to you afterwards your vision fades and you're back to where you are." That is a funny and good Nat 20

"i trick god into undoing himself" "roll for it" "nat 20" "god ceases to exist and you take his place" "awesome"

Crit crab works so hard for us

The rules as written way (Skill checks don't crit) was the one I learned. I personally think its best this way. 5% feels way too often to be pulling off impossible feats to me. However even without auto success crits, I do like the idea of celebrating and rewarding a natural 20. A bonus effect or advantage gained on a success, failing but gaining some kind of benefit in spite of it, maybe even lowering the DC by a point or two and letting the check succeed if it was fairly close to success anyway. Heck, I would even be fine with just taking the opportunity to inject a little razzle dazzle into the story, help my character look cool.

My group just uses the NAT 20 rules as written. Just last week someone rolled a NAT 20 on a perception check with a total of about 25 for perception and the DM still ruled they did not find what they where looking for by just using perception.

The bethesda line really resonated with me honestly. One my big things as a dm, is letting my players feel like there chars are special or unique. Not just picking stuff out or the book, so i always incorage them too make and idea for a power there char has, or backstory reasons too be able too use weapons or cantrips not in there class pool, and i always allow stuff within reaspn, and if its too broken i work it out with them too make ot fair but still have it the way they want. It make people feel way more attached too there chars and makes them enjoy the experience i find.

I use the Nat 20 rule on abilities, but I ONLY ask for rolls where the outcome is variable, and I also tell my players at session zero that there will be rare occasions where a Nat 20 won't be enough and I will ask for their related modifier. People understand that they're playing a game, and they understand that Nat 20 creates fun silly moments, and they also understand that sometimes that 5% chance at succeeding needs to be taken away. Trust your table to work together to create the experience.

Do you guys prefer to have your players decide what they want to do, roll, then act out the result? Or act out the situation, roll, and then the result occurs? I like them acting out the situation first because the way something is said or done and spur of the moment inspiration can really change how effective their methods are

@rodrigocampos1302

Жыл бұрын

the players decide the actions, the DM decide if that action calls for a roll or not

Cool video I'm excited to see you stepping out of your comfort zone to make a non horror story video

That "superhuman strength feat" does have a few examples in the real world, like "Hysterical strength" (where humans can suddenly lift cars etc), so it could be possible to do some extreme things if you are in a dangerous situation

@simsom4343

7 ай бұрын

@@Squeekysquid I mean, who's to say magically enhanced humans don't get hysterical strength moments on a higher level than normal humans, I dunno

I like to see Nat 20's as, "grats, you don't automatically die from that stupid action." did you try to tackle a dragon that's nice. your nat 20 means he laughs at you and takes pity on your stupidity and chooses not to fire breathe weapon you into ash.

My idea for a home rule concerning ability checking Nat20 and Nat1. Nat20: You did even better than you expected. Add your proficiency bonus to the result. Nat1: You overestimated your abilities, or missed a significant detail. Ignore any proficiency or expertise when determining the result. (Optional: if a class/character feature allows you to change the result of the roll without rerolling, such as treating the roll as a 10, still apply this detriment).

@viraltang

Жыл бұрын

I kinda do the same except I let the proficiencys or lack there of sorta get them out of the absolute worst situation. "Unfortunately because of that 1 you don't swing but your dexterity is enough that you only break your arm fumbling in the ropes and not ending up a splat on the deck."

@harrisonhurst6480

Жыл бұрын

So... Do you not normally let them add the proficiency bonus if its not a Nat 20?

@viraltang

Жыл бұрын

@@harrisonhurst6480 Sorry I misspoke. Yes I do I just use their proficiency bonuses as a way out of the worst possible scenario in the case of a natural 1. Except in combat.

i love the new editing keep up the good work

Dms who don't communicate with the players, what they think would be fun and what they want, they are a bad DM. I love being the DM and I love to talk and see what my players thoughts and likes are when playing, so it really passes me off when other DM'S won't even listen to what the players want, even if it would make the campaign more fun for everyone. I love your videos and I agree with your statements, I hope I'll never have to show this video to another bad DM again, but it's wonderful to have on hand, thank you.

Craig should eat a burger and chill ngl

I like the "best result you could possibly get" rule. Speaking of critical successes and failures, some other TTRPGs I've played in the past have critical success and failure charts (for combat mainly) that read like lists of war crimes or the monthly report of an illegal organ harvesting ring. You'd be lucky to only swallow your own tongue.

I forget exactly where it is in what book, but there is a passage that states "a player makes roll when success or failure is not certain" (or something close to that). I always direct people to this little nugget because it really helps new players and especially new DMs.

@sergeantsharkseant

Жыл бұрын

Oh yeah an important part often ignored in DnD but a core part of GURPS with auto successes

Player tries to jump and 80 foot gorge. Nat 1: You choke at the last step and awkwardly tumble over the edge to your death. Nat 20: You run and leap forward mightily. To the awe of everyone watching you make it nearly halfway across the gorge before falling to your death.

I personally like the "you succeed but" for things that are impossible. The worlds I build, while not realistic, have a certain amount of grit. "You punched that reinforced door and the hinges happened to be a bit old, leaving it on the ground, but you still put your whole weight behind it and broke basically all the bones in your hands, meaning you're going to have disadvantage on attack and dexterity rolls until you get patched up."

Yo! My boy edited this! Great job my dude. Here's to more fun videos

I make these rules known for my table at session zero; 1. You can swap 1 attribute point from race bonus to an attribute suitable for your background during cc. 2. Healing potions are used as stated in the rules (action) and 3. Asking the King for his crown and rolling a nat 20 means he doesn't have you executed and he laughs it off.

@alexanderbeardsley5465

Жыл бұрын

thanks to the one book WoTC released, Mordekainen's book of something which has pretty much almost every single playable race in dnd 5e they made a rule that the race stat bonuses are now homogenized between all races and retcons the stat bonuses in the phb. all races now have a flat +2 to 1 attribute of the player's choice and a +1 to another attribute of their choice. its why when you create a character in dndbeyond it lets you toss the racial bonuses wherever you want regardless of your race. it might seem lazy but honestly its the best approach to it and gives players much more freedom.

One nat 1/20 moment i had was quite intuitive, and all of my friends rule similarly as we all dm. My 20 str fighter freshly joined a party (decently late into the campaign) and was requested by the warlock to assist in getting into a tavern room which held a sleeping guard, and a key we needed. Brilliant idea, asked the warlock to heat the lock of the door and my fighter was going to try and force it open, just hoping i would roll high enough that it would work. I thought worst case scenario is i hurt myself and dont open the door. I roll a nat 1, and the DM just goes "Well, on account of your being built like a brick shit house you get the door open, the whole door. You broke the door off its hinges and fell into the room with it." And it was a moment of silence as he describes the amount of noise i had just made, and first instinct was to ask "can i roll a dex save to not fall." And proceed to roll a nat 20. My fighter scurried the hell down the hall and out of there, whilst the warlock cast invisibility and waited for the guard to go back to sleep, and retrieved the key. It was a simple case of task failed successfully

I’ve been using a modified version of DingoDoodles Crit rules. Three nat 20’s have been rolled 2-3 times in this year long campaign and holy crap has it been epic each time

@harrisonhurst6480

Жыл бұрын

I hate having to confirm crits. What if the only way I was able to hit him was a Nat 20? Now I have to do it again or my "Amazing Attack" bearly does anything.

@DwarfDaddy

Жыл бұрын

@@harrisonhurst6480 i think you replied to the wrong comment

I like either the rules as written (combat only) or a bit of a house rule where you can get critical successes on non-combat rolls, but it doesn't mean you can do the impossible. Like you can't kick down the fortified door, but you kick it really hard and maybe dent it a bit more than expected and look cool. I do like the video's proposals though about giving alternate paths on a nat 20. Never really heard of that, but it's a really great idea. For the example of the nat 20 on a persuasion roll though, I've seen some DMs use a chart that takes the NPC's opinion of the character into account. Like if they hate you, they'll be less likely to kill you, but still won't do anything you say, or if they are neutral to you, they may like you a little better, but still won't give you the shirt off their backs. I remember it being like 5 columns with "hostile", "dislike", "neutral", "like" and "adore/love" or something along those lines and 2-3 rows for failure, succeed and maybe a middle ground and nat 20 just maybe moves you up a column. One thing I really liked about Pathfinder when I was looking into it for... umm... previous developments... was how well they define what a nat 20 gets you and it's not crazy like it has become in D&D.

I never let a nast 20 ruin my story especially with a persuasion check. One success doesn't mean someone is going to give you their whole lives wealth

Homebrew rule pitch: if you roll a nat 20 on a skill check and don't succeed, you can reserve that "fail 20" for later. The next time you fail a skill check of the same type, you can use one of your fail 20's to reroll once. If a player starts spamming unrealistic checks (trying to punch through every steel door they see, for example), they may lose the privilege of earning a fail 20 at the DM's discretion.

I've been a nat-1 nat-20 guy my whole life, but this video has inspired me to make a better system for it. "Absurdity scale" is now a thing.

The builder rolled a 20 when he installed that door. Your leg falls off.

If you fail on a nat 20,you don't roll, you just fail.

Personally, I let the nat20 in skill checks fly BUT it does not guarantee success. If you try to talk the king into giving you his kingdom, a nat20 doesn't just hand you the crown, it'll get him to laugh your joke off instead sending you into the rainbow of failure states.

I keep to the RAW for nat 20s. Guarantee crit in combat, auto stabilize, and good in skill checks. The reason being is to let the player's great skills overcome a bad roll. That gives folks so much appreciation for how their character has advanced. I also find that so many folks play with the "nat 20=superhuman success, and nat 1=crit fail" dynamic that not murdering them for nat 1's is refreshing.

I love the fishing backgroundo XD Is so in hit with the theme and story

My bf generally plays “the rule of cool” When you role a nat 20, you have a chance of having an epic or completely absurd occurrence happen. No matter what it is, it’s going to be entertaining However, for a more horror themed campaign he ran, a nat 20 isn’t always a good thing. We once had a bard who got a 20 while using detect magic and they basically got to see an eldritch abomination, it’s like their eyes got to witness a rift in reality itself. I think they almost died because of that

The following text is from something I've wrote out awhile ago and just copy and paste as a response to the nat 20 conversation that pops up every so often. Could use a bit of a touch up but basically the same thoughts now. And looks like the new edition is going to be using nats In skill checks which I like ☺️ Here is my view on it. although crits are for combat, i don't see a problem letting Nat 20s and Nat 1s be instant success and failures. Of course this is up to the DM and should be discussed with everyone involved before the game. Addressing the elephant in the room. Yes the rules say it's for use in combat, but…. The rules also say "As a referee, the DM interprets the rules, decides when to abide by them, and when to change them." (Page 4, 5e DMG) Everyone has their own opinions on it. Although the rules do say for combat, i don't see the problem in it. In the end do whatever you and your group find the most fun, after all it's just game and games are meant to be fun. That's not to say you can do the impossible, hell no, why make a roll if something is impossible in the first place? It's just a waste of everyones time. Only roll for things that have a chance of success or failure, you shouldn't have to roll for something stupid easy in everyday life why roll for something that's not even possible. With a 5% chance of instant success or failure not even being a lot it makes those nat 20s more exciting in my opinion especially if you're not running combat constantly. If someone is worried about their failure being a 5% chance they can get help from their party with the help action to get advantage (making more cooperation at the table), pick up the lucky feat, etc. Even an novice can stumble into success, the phrase being "beginners luck" and experts can still make mistakes. Take a look at combat for example in which proficiency is used, which proficiency is another way to say skill. Even a novice lvl 1 with a +2 to hit can hit a enemy with a 23 or even higher ac character. A slim chance but possible. Same goes for a veteran level 20 with God tier abilities maxed out hitting capabilities plus +100000 godly weapon etc, if they roll to hit a simple rat (10ac) and they roll a one and don't have an ability to change it… they still miss. All that "skill" as a fighter and they can still miss because it's possible. Nats are also used besides combats… in death saves, When you make a death saving throw and roll a 1 on The D20, it counts as two failures. If you roll a 20 on The D20, you regain 1 hit point. Why not make nats universal success and failures for everything then? The excitement and terror the table gets is electric and makes those moments memorable. Really it's up to your group's with final say of DM in regards to what you find more fun. It's not illegal to play against the rules, their more like guidelines. Just like with Uno, no one listens to Uno about the rules 😅

Nat 20, the shopkeeper laughs at the joke; nat 1, the shopkeeper gets pissed and throws you out of the store.

I like the idea of my players rolling a nat20 history check as them realizing connecting the dots and having some kind of realization about what they'd like to know based on their characters past or backstory. It makes rolling a d20 an opportunity to enrich the story. I agree with what you've said though 100%

When my friends or I DM, we always treat nat 20s like a big deal. Idc if it's not by the book, it's nice to let your players be happy, and if you're in the zone you can make the scene awesome

@CorrosiveCitrus

Жыл бұрын

Rule of fun, it's what were playing for afterall :) Our table rule it the way it is in the DMG as it keeps the immersion intact for us, and that's what we find fun - but if we're doing a one-shot to take a break from the main campaign, things are overall less serious and almost all the rules become loose haha

I think the solution to the “seduce the dragon” rolls and others like it has always been to simply have them automatically fail these action without rolling. The old school way.

loved the intro edit ^^

🍔🦀

@Hansthemindflayer

Жыл бұрын

All praise the mighty burger!

"I, not you, decide when to throw the dice. Everything outside the setting is my job to manage."

I love your method of crit fails and successes on skill rolls, I use it to For example if a part barbarian (low level) tries to kick down a 3 ft thick vault door (impossible cr): 1: critical fail, you injure yourself, 1d4 damage and you limp for the next 10 rounds the door does not move 2-19: you injure yourself, 1pt damage some dust falls from the door 20: you kick the door at its hinges and see some very slight bending, the door doesn't open but it's going to swing funny now when it is

Here's an idea that may or may not already be a thing: Special items or artifacts that change the effect of rolling a particular number. Or maybe integrating it into character creation, choosing a skill or attribute at the start that gains additional benefits from criticals.

one of my DMs had a system for doing "impossible" tasks when you got a nat 1 or 20. coin flip. you wanna break down that door and you got a 20? heads, you succeed. tails, you fail admirably (maybe they pry the covering off the lock, letting the rogue tinker at it.) you rolled a nat 1? heads, you failed but no harm comes to you. tails, you've messed up and done something harmful (like hitting the vault door triggered an alarm or trap of some kind)

The critical success/failure on skill checks is in the DMG - and even there it is optional ("you can *choose* to take such an exceptional roll into account when adjudicating the outcome") - but not the PH; that's maybe why few parties use it: they do not even know it exists.

Me, who has only played D&D once and knows nothing about DMing: *”Interesting”*

My dm once said "no matter how high a roll, you can't throw a dagger at the moon and kill it."

My first dm had the thing where nat 20 made you succeed at anything when it came to checks. I met my gf through that group and weve been together for 3 years after that group disbanded over drama. We have a new group with old friends where we all takes turn to dm and nobody uses that homebrew for skill checks because its simply just emersion breaking.

I always saw a nat 20 as the best outcome for your die luck on a certain check. What it relates to it's just a moment akin to a goal in a football game or in turn a nat 1 is the other team scoring, I had a nat 40 due to an advantage roll and it was a feel good moment in the heat of a moment. End of it, the nat 20 is a feel good moment of luck to a dice roll.

I've known about the actual rule but it doesn't always feel as fun. I don't play anymore (yetqorking on it.) but I do practice for potential DMing by writing situations where it stays fun, mostly since I plan on tossing in the house rule of "nothing is guaranteed, but I will let you roll." Makes it easier not to get backed into a wall as a DM.

I had a player like Craig once he got … encouraged to find another table.

My group plays it similarly to you. A nat20 is the best case scenario for what you're trying to do. It doesn't mean you get everything you want, but it can point you in the right direction. The king won't give you his kingdom, but instead of having you thrown in the dungeon, or just laughing at you, he sends you to one of his advisors who tells you of an untamed land to the west you can try to claim for your own kingdom. The shopkeeper won't just hand over his inventory, but he's got some special stock in the back for adventurers willing to risk it all and bring him monster bits.

I had a broken rouge with a plus 17 stealth modifier. I threw a 20 on a sneak attack against a miniboss, casually walked up in front of him and teed off decapitating him.

A friend of mine made a cool system and we played a campaign to test it out: To (dramatically)over-simplify the system: the only die was a D6. If you rolled a 6, you got to roll another die. Theoretically a tiny knife could do unlimited damage but that was also proportionately unlikely. It worked really well for having unlikely events be unlikely but possible (sure, the DC for knowing that highly confidential state secret is 50, roll your 2d6+1 or whatever). Also great because there are, some really crazy moments where people just yahtzee (I once "golfed" a goblin with my warhammer sending him ~100 feet back, as mostly pulp).

I have a house rule at games I run. Since our group is based more or less entirely on roll20 which as standard automatically rolls at advantage. I allow Nat 20s and Nat 1s to be as stated "The best that could be reasonably expected", but if the roller produces the more elusive 20/20 or 1/1, that's when things get spicy. Because they're rarer, I allow for things to go a bit more crazy for them.

My first tabletop system was Deadlands. Not the current Savage Worlds mod; old-school Deadlands. Pretty straightforward roll system: each skill category has a die type (d4, d6, d8, d10, d12), and whatever level your skill is, you roll that many. You take the highest. But if any die comes up at its maximum value, it "explodes"-which means you get to roll it again and add what comes up to the max value. Multiple dice can explode in a single roll, and there's no limit to how many times it can explode. It is the _perfect_ balance of keeping things grounded in realism and still feeling like anything is possible. It was worth doing some crazy long-shot thing because maybe the dice would explode. And situations where they exploded three or four times, the energy at the table is _electric._ I have been chasing that realism/occasional-wild-luck balance in other systems, but nothing's quite measured up. Which means I both get _why_ this house rule exists (everyone wants their game to let them beat the odds like that), and am driven crazy by it (a flat 5% chance??? no, not even close, you're not my real dad).

"Best possible result" is not an immediate success. Sometimes the best possible result is the store owner not opening the trap door under your feet.

I'm equal parts blessed & cursed to have a DM who's actually memorised 90% of the rules.