It's a good move to copy Ferrari's car as long as you don't copy their strategies.

@xeakpress2718

Жыл бұрын

Strats sold separately happily

@forzaferrari9912

Жыл бұрын

Brilliant comment, wish their strategy was as sharp as this one!

@jeanc3167

Жыл бұрын

Genius😂

@justinburley8659

Жыл бұрын

Bullshit

@lisa_monalisa268

Жыл бұрын

People usually only copy things that are good.

I haven't worked in CAD in more than a decade but - given my experience and working with those much more skiled than I - I know that these regulations just make it more time-consuming to copy competitors, and not at all impossible or even really 'difficult' for a skilled CAD designer. These shapes are easy enough to replicate just from photos, it's the dimensions that are hard to get right - but then again, all of these componenets fall into the regulation areas, so it's not hard to guess the dimensions when everything has to fit into certain 'boxes' in relation to the area of the car it's in.

@Cafferssss

Жыл бұрын

Underrated comment this.

@lucas_t7golfs

Жыл бұрын

Actually great insight 👍

@Dean0017

Жыл бұрын

I think you oversimplified. Every change is more CFD driven. I also think that it's more of a concept change and the ability to package the Ferrari components the same as Ferrari. The CAD is irrelevant.

@Errafri

Жыл бұрын

It's the point. More time consuming means more money, more personel needed to do it. If you are in a position where copying cost more than just doing a couple of tests on your own design, you are heavily pushed from copying. You end up doing what Haas did, aka. Get inspiration in what kind of design you are going for and developing your own.

@PunnamarajVinayakTejas

Жыл бұрын

In addition, you can get a rough approximation of the opponent's car and hope to converge at the same local optimum they arrived at through CFD iterations.

That small "El Plan" detail in Alonso shoot is brilliant

@fiole666

Жыл бұрын

El Plan was just to come back to F1 with Renault, he said it. It's over now

@0megalul309

Жыл бұрын

@@fiole666 it's la mission now

@purwantiallan5089

Жыл бұрын

@@fiole666 Ayumu Uehara Masterblan?

@purwantiallan5089

Жыл бұрын

@@0megalul309 Mission Failnow.

@Umar-gw6fy

Жыл бұрын

@@purwantiallan5089 I hate that you’ve moved from spamming carwow videos to spamming many f1 type videos stop it thanks

4:09 : when Adrian Newey come to check your aero chassis, you know you are on the right path :) 7:25 Grosjean's engineer is still at Haas

@purwantiallan5089

Жыл бұрын

Haas wants Grosjean back.

@itsmeayansheikh

Жыл бұрын

@@purwantiallan5089 somebody hit me

@MrSilverfish12

Жыл бұрын

Engineer you mean.

I'd say it's very different from the "tracing point" scenario. Just like the "Green Bull", understanding which aero philosophy you have no choice but to pursue is understandable. Especially when there's going to be greater mutual intelligibility between Haas and Ferrari than Aston and Red Bull. To flip this scenario on its head, would everyone have accused Williams of copying Mercedes had Merc been leading the title and Williams the mid-field? (Re: the zero side-pod concept.) It's an interesting paradigm to consider.

@purwantiallan5089

Жыл бұрын

Ayumu Uehara also copied Ferrari 2022 car in terms of this.

@gammacorp

Жыл бұрын

245 thumbs up from people with the memory of a gold fish. Racing point copied the Merc and everyone lost their shit.

@torbinzix1

Жыл бұрын

@@gammacorp yeah, I really don't get the double standards

@Grant80

Жыл бұрын

Good point. Although, I’m surprised with all the uproar over racing point this is still allowed

@damarfadlan9251

Жыл бұрын

@@Grant80 Racing Point is like Force India hybrid.

Just like the Aston Martin red bull copy, teams stop caring if it’s not quick

@purwantiallan5089

Жыл бұрын

Haas got Ferrari masterblan working.

If there not actually breaking into the Ferrari garage and stealing data then I guess it's fine to copy design elements

@purwantiallan5089

Жыл бұрын

Haas may got major benefit for that.

@deakksyy

Жыл бұрын

@@purwantiallan5089 *cough* *cough* McLaren fine *cough*

"They do not fook copy my car"

It's okay to copy the fastest car, especially if you don't have serious resources like Redbull or Mercedes to come up with your own. On pure pace Ferraris do have a leg up on everyone else at the moment.

@gamingnoah9807

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately their results dont reflect their car performance

@Ceece20

Жыл бұрын

I’ll say it again, having the fastest car on Saturday doesn’t mean squat when you aren’t the fastest overall on Sunday (meaning you get 1st place). Ferrari has a good car, but let’s not pretend that they have the best Sunday car.

@subsecondf1968

Жыл бұрын

@@Ceece20 Its not awful on Sunday though, Both Red Bull and Ferrari are pretty equal

@gistrobaguette7566

Жыл бұрын

@@Ceece20 Ever since their rear wing update in Spain they really do have the better car both in quali and in race

@Ceece20

Жыл бұрын

@@gistrobaguette7566 really, so tell me who has won more races since then? Redbull or Ferrari? Quali don’t mean crap when you don’t win Sunday.

All the “green Redbull white Ferrari” are a bit silly. We started the season at the start of a new set of regulations with different takes on the new rules across the grid. As teams get a better understanding of these regs and want to develop their cars obviously they’re going to look towards the best interpretations

@goblokidinahui4420

Жыл бұрын

theyre jokes

It would seem obvious if you are Ferrari to use Haas to increase development of certain items, sharing development time. Both teams would benefit.

It’s something thats been going on for years with all teams and nothing wrong with that. Example: How many times were Neweys innovations and designs copied by other teams (one example the seating position of the driver in the FW17 and FW18, ended up being copied by all teams and are the standard seating positions we see in cars nowadays). Copying any component and making it work with the overall package is something that is hard to achieve. So hats off to any team that manages to duplicate a component and make it work. Hopefully Haas sees some solid gains with the new package.

@jeffsteyn7174

Жыл бұрын

Yip and how AlphaTuari looks almost exactly the same as redbull since even before the season started...nothing suspect there

Why wouldn't they get away with it? The 2020 Racing Point was legal too (apart from the brake duct)

@simonb4757

Жыл бұрын

Maybe because they changed the rules since then to ban the exact thing Racing Point did...

@NexuJin

Жыл бұрын

I remember they were fined.

@MrSniperfox29

Жыл бұрын

@@NexuJin Fined, and docked enough points to cost them 3rd place in the constructors championship (and thus more money)

@NexuJin

Жыл бұрын

@@MrSniperfox29 thanks for the addendum

@adamn7125

Жыл бұрын

@@simonb4757 they only banned 3d cameras and other cheeky stuff but copying in itself wasn't banned

I'm curious about how the FIA go about policing the no use of technology to analyse the competitors design. Teams could easily come up with their "by hand" design after analysing the competitor's with technology.

@joelambert7128

Жыл бұрын

Photogrammetry, a technique which generates 3d meshes from a series of photographs, requires specialised software, while other 3d scanning techniques require specialised physical equipment to go along with yet more specialised software. Even if teams have a legitimate use case for the tools/software in the design and manufacturing of original parts, there is clearly a process for the FIA to check what data the teams store and work on, or else the FIA could not enforce a limit on the hours of CFD simulations each team may run yearly. Of course, teams might make use of off-books computers, but they would run a risk in doing so - it only takes one busybody working in a printer-copier shop in Woking for these things to unravel.

@arconada

Жыл бұрын

@@joelambert7128 But when there's a will there's a way, if they already have the technology and really really want to obtain such data, I doubt a mere "don't do it" and checking what's legally going on is going to deterr them. It's F1, that's how they work, loopholes and shady stuff just to get the edge on the rivals. It's not like they can prove everything (Ferrari enging comes to mind). This one seems like it's easier to hide than other things

@NexuJin

Жыл бұрын

When it's "hand made", there should be iterations of the design during the creation process. As the data are probably centralized stored somewhere on the team server, there should also be metadata on whom added what when. Much like software source code repository.

@arconada

Жыл бұрын

@@NexuJin I see. I assume faking iterations would be too big of a hassle. Metadata can be spoofed, depending on the system. But that makes sense

@aswadsaswad1759

Жыл бұрын

More than that, how are they policing the wind tunnel hours and CFD hours? Especially of the teams who share those research tools! Haas with by far the most wind tunnel hours to use yet no budget or motivation to use on doing research and updates, based in the Ferrari factory with ferrari who have hardly any wind tunnel reaserch hours to use,..and a massive budget burning a hole in their pocket!! How are the FIA are making sure no data or wind tunnel usage is being shared between the two teams

So you can make it "look" like a Ferrari but that doesn't make it "work" like a Ferrari. I'm under the understanding that you have to "show" the FIA the work and testing behind the designs. That's what put the Aston Martin buzz to sleep when accused of copying the Red Bull. AM had submitted the designs months earlier. As for HAAS, the better they do "if they do" the more arrows will be thrown at them, just as anyone up the ladders receives. If they start to climb up the rear wing of the Mercedes then all hell will break loose with Toto. Me thinks this is not a worry for this season. But it's fun to think about,

This year's Ferrari is possibly the most beautiful of the modern generation 😍

@VanCough

Жыл бұрын

Yes the prettiest and fastest design. Unfortunately, their engine team and strategy team let them down

When new regs come along peopel try different things but eventually teams converge on the designs that work. I mean by the end of the previous regulations cars all looked relatively similar, doesn't mean they straight up copied each other.

Interesting video! Great work.

Let HAAS score some points man😂 they had a hard time last season

The next top move should be Steiner - Binotto team swap. Then Ferrari would be champion while Haas a top-5 team

Enjoyed your video and so I gave it a Thumbs Up

i love these kinds of videos. im far more interested in the technical side of f1 than all the annoying drama

3:59 haha cheeky🤣

Aston / Williams: RB inspired aero Haas : Ferrari inspired aero It's no big deal

@tannedfrog8908

Жыл бұрын

Yet people made a big deal when Aston did it

@riccardovurchio5146

Жыл бұрын

Maybe ‘cause Haas is a Ferrari team, using Ferrari parts?

@PPpaladin

Жыл бұрын

@@riccardovurchio5146 only engine, everything else is made in house (literally every parts cannot be shared since nothing is really "standard" in F1 ) or F1 supplied (regulation)

Ed Straw is gorgeous.

you can copy a care as long as its not done with 3d scanning, where you actually get the geometry of a car.. so yeah...

It's a ferrari test car. they (ferrari) are making and testing new parts on the haas to see if they work or not. Haas use the ferrari wind tunnel and are based in marrinelo with ferrari. It makes sense for ferrari to test parts on what is essentially their B team

I want to know how the race knows how teams feel about certain tracks, like how do they know that haas doesn’t feel great ab spa or silverstone. I need this for fantasy 😂

@sauloborges1377

Жыл бұрын

Some cars have better straigth line speed, some are good at slow corners other excel at high speed corners (especially this year). You look at what the tracks has, and what had performed well last races there. You then compare that with what cars this year are showing, so you can have an educated guess. At the end is just a guess and surprises are not only expected but welcome.

what is the coke bottle area? I can't spot it. Is it the rear engine cover ?

Very nice video. As long as they stay away from Ferrari strategy the HAAS team should do fine.

@purwantiallan5089

Жыл бұрын

Lanzhu Zhong wants to be like Binotto.

It’s a sister car, same as Torro Rosso with red bull ,

I just can't believe when two teams are that close to even share their windtunnel that Ferrari doesnt get that windtunnel data. It's not allowed, but with an extra sensor here or there (Ferrari knows all sbout that) im sure it still gets to them.

The regulation is like the following: Copy allowed: - Yes: if the car fails (who cares) - No: if the car excels (especially competing with big teams) - Maybe: if you are a team with sizeable (more sizeable than your direct competitor) lobby power toward FIA

with the rules so strict, was surprised this year when all cars looked differently

@mohammadnashitsiddiqui2168

Жыл бұрын

I feel the same,how many different cars did we actually expect?

@kohikappu

Жыл бұрын

@@mohammadnashitsiddiqui2168 Maybe 2 or 3 just like in the past. But there were 4-6 of them, including that unique Williams flat outwash sidepod.

I don’t know if you noticed but u used a picture of a Ferrari with a broken front wing in the thumbnail

honestly seeing Haas performance this season compared to 2021, its been really encouraging. and if they can be "legal white Ferrari" to increase perf, then its fine

@mutantgeralt

Жыл бұрын

They aren't a white Ferrari though, that's the whole point of this video

@deakksyy

Жыл бұрын

@@mutantgeralt kinda wish they were like alphatauri. I understand their brand image is Haas, an American team but like damn it would be kinda cool

@sik59rt

Жыл бұрын

You can’t really judge them by their 2021 campaign since they wrote it off as soon as the season started to focus on 2022

@deakksyy

Жыл бұрын

@@sik59rt pretty sure they wrote it off as soon as they saw Mazepin in Bahrain fp1

@kohikappu

Жыл бұрын

@@deakksyy Well, Ferrari has Alfa Romeo on that regard.

They wouldn’t get away with copying their strategy

People have been alluding to Haas copying Ferrari ever since their beginnings in the sport even though it was always obvious that while there were similarities of concepts, the car pieces were never exact copies so it always was legal. It's getting a bit tiring that it's still a recurring topic of conversation after so many years.

How does this work with copyright law?

The issue will always be the transfer of institutional knowledge from personnel. If one wants a hill to die on, charge straight up that one & meet me at the top.

I saw what you did with Alonso at 3:59 hehehe

The main marketing aspect of the 2022 cars, is that they have underbody downforce, compared to the last gen overbody downforce cars. This means that the parts of the car we see, although important are not critical for the performance of the car. The Aston Martin with the Red Bull sidepods was nowhere near Red Bull levels, the Haas with the Ferrari sidepods was nowhere near Ferrari levels. The Mercedes with its "zero pod" concept has them unchanged for the whole season and is just now starting to find its groove. The performance sensitive areas of these cars are at the floors as the rules intended and the general shape of the car above does not seem to be as important, ar least for now.

Oversteery or understeery car? What would you prefer?

watching the engineer guy chew more than once was highlight of video

The el plan flash was CLASS HAHAA

IMHO the whole crackdown on copying has been a huge waste of time and energy, the one doing the copying will always be playing catch-up

So that's why everyone is always running around with the latest iPhone at the F1 paddock. You can't tell me they're not using the Lidar to get a couple of cheaky scans in there ;)

I think they talked with Ferrari on how much they could copy,seeing as they are engine supliers and they have a good friendship with eachother.

Like it was legal for RP, AM, and all the teams that follow similar design leads once they are proven to be successful.

Haas Team: We copied the Ferrari car but we are still slow Gunther: FOK SMASH DOOR

"El Plan" lol

looks same but dimensions are different? sounds legit, but w/o having understanding how the design changes this aspect or that from the last, leaves Haas scratching their heads and they rely on the red team for guidance haha

It does it design and development entirely independent from Ferrari itself *proceeds to show a Haas employee wearing a Ferrari sling*

Its not "scolloped"... its an EAR LOBE!!!!

Here to say I saw El Plan!

This is ridiculous. The teams are allowed to copy each other for the most part. When has it been any different?

This is like saying they copied it but they didn't "copy" it.

Haas: We eyeballed it.

I'm still surprised haas doesn't have more upgrades.

Even wondered if this might be a Ferrari test car? Maybe they're "updates" are test for Ferrari for next season. We all know Ferrari and Red Bull are almost out of money for development.

How come if the Haas was presented before the Ferrari? Only if Ferrari let them see their plans, but that is not very probable to have happened.

3:59 el plan boisssss

haas, alfaromeo and ferrari stays in the same hotel at remote races. ferrari has 3x budget by having 2 satellite teams. this is also same with mercedes + williams, redbull + alfa tauri, and so on.

HAAS sacrificed a full year to develop their 2022 car... and ended replicating a Ferrari !?

@Cesp43

Жыл бұрын

More they spended not of that year innovating their design, sharing possible designs with the Marinello team since they use the same wind tunnel, and overtime haas started to adapt ferrari's car since it was the better of the two. Atleast that's what I think.

So people are complaining about similar aero design while using the same engine?

The ferrari looks like a tadpole from a birds eye view

A thing to also point out is, apart from Haas, no team even if legal can copy the F1-75. It is macro perfected. They can do so with the Redbull but not the Ferrari.

Copying should be legal. There is no point making card that can't be their best.

I like the phrasing Haas has something

I dont get why this is hard to understand if u copy ideas by looking at pics ur fine. Long as u dont get data or designs

Ha ha, el plan at 3:58.

Eh, they should just open up copying freely. We'll get better cars and closer racing that way.

Because fans love my man G

Wow I just realized the the Haas Cars and The Ferrari Cars are the same

The reason why it's "legal" is because Haas isn't fighting for a podium or a win right now, they barely even finish top 10. Unlike force India/racing point back in 2020. If Haas is actually fighting in the front row, believe me, every team is gonna have a field day visiting the FIA office.

@mmonkeyman1403

Жыл бұрын

It's mostly legal because like Aston Martin in 2022, they haven't literally copied the Ferrari via scans or blueprints.

@purwantiallan5089

Жыл бұрын

@@mmonkeyman1403 AM 2022 love this.

3:59 el plan

well the green bull is deemed legal too so no biggies

This is the reason hass will neve rbe a front running team, they always follow others and dont take initiative

I’m sorry, this term was new to me… What are “supertimes, please?

Does FiA have a rule which says no team can copy another car design? If not then it's all hot air!

They let racing point do it

the grey haas livery is nois!

i mean what’s the big deal, it’s not the first time they’ve done it and they share a ton of information anyway🤷🏾‍♂️, they’re still gonna be slower no matter what

It’s inspiration not like they have Ferraris exact formula

Isn't haas mick's personal ferrari academy?

El plan! ✌️

F1 has always been about copying

We like haas, but we dont like stroll's team as much

Funny most recent Iphones and Ipads can scan with LiDAR and you can convert that data to 3D models..... FIA still lives in the middle ages... sigh Besides that if any team would hire real 3d artists who trained them to use photo to model in 3D .... they can copy it, although it's not like LiDAR scans :)

The cars look totally different especially in the thumbnail side by side 😂. None of it is exactly the same.

mick said hes ready to get a ferrari seat, but he is allready in a ferrari!

The Force India of 2020 was also a copy of a merc of 2019 and all knew it.

@captaintoyota3171

Жыл бұрын

Yeah but they where forced 2 develop this issues out of it themselves just like merc did. Just aston doesnt have ppl or tech to develop out of the merc in 21

EL PLAN! 😂😂

Big diff between sharing and stealing. First is done by Ferrari&Haas. Second is done by AM.

They get away with it because VF-22 stands for Virtually a Ferrari - 2022

EL PLAN!!!

they are not fighting for the title

I'm just waiting for the day Ferrari puts 3 hards and one soft on Leclerc

Big fan of HASS and Ferrari but do find it funny other teams got into trouble for coping cars.

F1 is a game of copy.. Why in blazes to teams do everything possible to block view of chassis with outer shell off. Right! Its because every other team is trying to copy what works on faster teams. With such tight regulation on outer envelope it seems amazing to me the assorted cars look as different as they do. Louvers make not a copy.. the underlying shapes are so different only a fool would say they are duplicates. Much fuss over not very much.