No room is perfect, no equipment is perfect, no recording is perfect. Equalisers and tone controls are the remedy to get the sound we love from all these imperfections put together.

@Sams911

3 жыл бұрын

McIntosh who is not swayed by trendiness and does their own thing has never left Tone Controls... and thankfully so... no better way to adjust the sound of a room / volume stage situation than with a 5-8 band EQ... it's ridiculous to believe otherwise.

@michaelangeloh.5383

3 жыл бұрын

This exactly, except for the recording-part; I will equalize for the setup, whatever equipment in whatever room that might be, and then the recordings sound whatever they sound like. I'm personally not going to mess with the through the listening-setup. But, when I really like the album and just don't agree with its properties, then I will just "remaster" it myself, which I've done quite a bunch. - Like some records will just seriously lack low-end, whether that's because they were Vinyl-masters transferred to CD or just incompetent modern mixes. Others will lack clarity because of some serious roll-off or poor mixing. Others will have more intricate issues like drowned vocals or other details. - And yea, touching it up like that is way more involved than turning a knob, but I will only set up my system as "neutral" as I can get it, testing it with loads of content I know the characteristics of well, and not touch it unless I start realizing my system isn't rendering something properly. :)

@stevenoconnor5693

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed

@Okuti8779

2 жыл бұрын

Very well said and explained. 😉👍🏽

@alexstewart8097

Жыл бұрын

Is they so choose , everyone could have their own INDIVIDUAL, PERSONAL tone control system , 'cause what you called imperfections might be somebody else's de light... AeLso in this, the land of the free, but for sure nobody should be propagandized, manipulated, hyped or, even less, be forced into controlling their tone...UNless their ears start bleeding, or something to that effect...Shema!!!

I've come full circle. After 30 years of audiophile puritan views on tone controls, I've realized (with the help of full range electrostatics) that life is too short to suffer bad recordings. Bravo to Schiit audio!

@alexstewart8097

Жыл бұрын

Yet it was those bad recordings that your heard by following said audiophile puritan views, like you called them, that made you hear and find clarification as to what constitutes TO YOU a good rather than a bad sound in this fallen world of fidelity on High with ''all these imperfections '', like Rajendra Chittar in his comment called them...but nobody should ever be propagandized nor manipulated into controlling their tone, whether coming out of Schitt, Naim or Sony, since after all, what to you are ''bad recordings'' might be somebody else's de light...Shema!!!

@RonRivet

Жыл бұрын

I just bought a Schiit Loki

Great subject, Steve. Prior to your short review of the Loki, I was very much in the “straight wire with gain” school of listening. Well, recently I was in California visiting my son and his family. My son and I being huge fans of Schiit gear, he and I along with his audiophile friend made the trek to visit Schiit’s audio store called the Schiiter (...no Schiit) just to look around. Jason Stoddard’s friend and long time employee gave us a demo of HIS favorite piece of Schiit gear, the Loki. Needless to say, we were so impressed with what this seemingly simple device was capable of, we each bought a Loki. For the audiophile nay sayers, I only have to say, for $150 it’s silly NOT to give the Loki a try. Yes, while we may well believe the recording engineer knows best, there are many other factors to consider when we are playing back that “perfect” recording on our HiFi system at home in OUR listening environment. The loudness we are playing back this recording, the less than perfect acoustic space, the sometimes imperfect match between our phono cartridge and preamp, not to mention poor RIAA equalization of many older records, magnetic tape degradation, overly bright older CDs, time of day, etc., etc. The list could go on an on and my comment is way too long already. Cheers, Steve!

@ck8420

4 жыл бұрын

I find that if the Loki is left on all day it gets kind of hot. Do others find this so?

@SubTroppo

4 жыл бұрын

If you go to hear live amplified music there is always a modifier whether it be the PA, venue or the mixing desk and its operator so for me it is pointless to sweat the small stuff when it ccomes to listening to recorded music for home entertainment. It is a rabbit hole I could dive down given enough money, it would involve hiring the musicians and someone to design and build a acoustically brilliant venue for them and me. So tone controls seem like something I could live with on audiophile gear. It would be interesting to hear the opinions of musican.

@falungongboy

4 жыл бұрын

Yes and your speakers, their position, etc.

@motorradmike

4 жыл бұрын

Penns Woody, absolutely!

@StewartMarkley

4 жыл бұрын

Michael Schroeder Great response Michael. Loved your references to Schiit in your language. About the demise of tone controls, the coined phrase “a straight wire with gain” may be what put the nail in the tone controls coffin. The so called sophisticated but uneducated (audio engineering related) audiophiles jumped on it and the manufacturers followed suit, so that was the end of the tone controls. Very good examples in why we should want them. Thanks for a well thought out response.

I understand the "piece of wire with gain" philosophy, but love tone controls and equalisers too :D

@bikdav

4 жыл бұрын

Speaking of equalizers, I miss the equalizer set up that JVC had in the 80s.

Perhaps if they weren’t called “Tone Controls “ but instead “Room Conditioners” then....hey presto...now acceptable.

@TheTrueVoiceOfReason

4 жыл бұрын

How about "Audio Quality Elevators"? They'd sell in droves!

@jamierobinson9097

4 жыл бұрын

Then how about shelling out 'Room Comditioners' at around 5K to audiophiles, and watch them snap the, up....:-))

@scottlowell493

4 жыл бұрын

"Soundscape adaptive tech"

@NoiseStaticBlur

4 жыл бұрын

Doesn't work because room equalizing DSP units exist and audiophiles don't mess with those either.

@jamierobinson9097

4 жыл бұрын

@@NoiseStaticBlur I think we were trying to be ironic! :-)) x

In the 80's I used tone controles. Then in the 90's I was told they were bad. "If you need tone controles, there's something wrong with your system." Ok. Fine. So, no tone controles in the 90's and 2000's. But recently (within the last 2 years) I've gone back to using them on an as needed basis. As you pointed out, they can help with a poor recording, but also with room acoustics, and of course, they help my modest system sound a little more enjoyable.

@falungongboy

4 жыл бұрын

I think tone controls were in vogue during the 60s - 80s because albums after becoming worn hissed and scratches, so the tone control came in handy to damp that down!!

@vaughntonkin539

4 жыл бұрын

@@falungongboy They also had rumble/scratch switches that have 12dB/octave roll off

I like units with a tone control bypass. When not needed no sense being added to the path.

@Justwantahover

4 жыл бұрын

You mean the signal goes through less stuff. Maybe get some of those expensive FR drivers and no crossover. Going through less stuff. Maybe that's why audiophiles don't have much on the floor when it comes to amplifiers and preamps and DAK stuff etc. etc.

I wish there was an easy "tone defeat" button for rental cars. Every time I rent a car the bass is always set to the max. First thing I have to do in a rental car is fix that.

@rockobill7637

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah same here! And it is..it's always at max..sometimes the treble too..I'll bet whoever rents it after me thinks this idiot didn't know he could increase the bass...

@jortx

3 жыл бұрын

Here I thought I was the only one fidgeting with audio controls before leaving the rental car lot

@xaenon

2 жыл бұрын

@@jortx I don't rent cars, but I always have to readjust the controls after I let the boy drive my car. Even if he's just going to pick up something at the store.

When I started out in HiFi (this was in Europe) and bought my first components; in the 80's, Britain was, at least to me, the pinnacle of audio-design and knowledge, and there, it was all about "pure"; pure signal, as little "manipulation" as possible, as clean a signal as could be mustered, from source to speaker. So Amps like The Cyrus, or Onix were developed; on-off, input, volume: that was it! And we had small bookshelf speakers on huge stands and our turntables were simple; often you had to take it apart to change the speed (if it was possible at all!) and CD-players were tweaked endlessly; from the factory (Ishiwata and others) and by us, the users; taking them apart and putting in ring-deadening materials, painting the inside of the whole box, etc.. Not to mention cryo-treating the CD's themselves, and also painting the outer edge of the CD's with green marker.. it was all about maximising the output of "pure" signal from the source; we wanted to hear it like it was "intended"! So tone controls got a bad name; they distorted the TRUTH!! Now I realise there's no such thing as THE TRUTH so am happy to play around with sound-modes on my av-receiver to make things sound palatable; whatever makes me disappear into the music!! So absolutely; bring on the tone controls; digital, analogue; whatever floats your boat and helps your listening environment sound good!!

@StewartMarkley

4 жыл бұрын

BirdArvid You grew up and got wiser!

You are the best Steve. Thanks for this and all your other videos. Take Care

Because they'd rather pay 5k for a cable to do the same thing

@vinylcity1599

4 жыл бұрын

Lol, good one! Best comment!

@dougg1075

4 жыл бұрын

Best comment :) lol

@scottyo64

4 жыл бұрын

Lol funny but true

@carlitomelon4610

4 жыл бұрын

Indeed

@chrisvinicombe9947

4 жыл бұрын

Pssft pocket change my man 😂

IMO tone controls should have never went away. Don’t like them, run them flat. Tweaking is half the fun in being an audiophile.

@ampheat

4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely agree they have gone with the wind but never should have. That's why I use 80s pre-amps that give me a choice to use or defeat them.

@vaughntonkin539

4 жыл бұрын

flat sucks

@Sams911

3 жыл бұрын

McIntosh who is not swayed by trendiness and does their own thing has never left Tone Controls... and thankfully so... no better way to adjust the sound of a room / volume stage situation than with a 5-8 band EQ... it's ridiculous to believe otherwise.

Great video, Steve. Honestly, I am spoiled with the wonderful tone controls on my 70's Sansui and Pioneer receivers so I really didn't even know that people weren't accessing them as much. Once I have them set to my preferred sound, I kind of guard them and tell people "Don't touch those! Stay 3 feet back from the receiver!" I think that each speaker pairing with a specific unit is unique, so I could never do without tone controls.

4:10 In the late 1970s, the 1980s, and the early 1990s. Most mid-priced hi-fi systems (From about $2,500 to about $7,500 in 2019 dollars.) had a separate amplifier, a preamplifier, and an EQ. normally 5-band to 32-band for graphic-equalizers, and 3-band to 12-band for parametric-equalizers. So what was in one component in the 1950s, the 1960s, and the early 1970s was now in 4 or 5 components. (The reverb, dynamic expansion, and other effects, plus the radio tuner, would also each be it's own component.) When surround-sound became popular they started putting the radio tuner, amplifier, preamp, EQ, and effects all back into one component.

I really miss a loudness button that slightly boosts and brightens at lower volumes.

@QoraxAudio

4 жыл бұрын

Yup, same here. Luckily modern amplifiers with a DSP sometimes have features like loudness.

@robtremble2277

4 жыл бұрын

I had a MX 112 that best loudness button

@vaughntonkin539

4 жыл бұрын

Loudness is crap, esp the permanent type in small amplifiers and console grams and some suitcase RP's, it degrades when vol knob reaches past 60%, smiley curve becomes plateau curve, just use tone control or bass/treble controls, I personally un-wire the loudness caps in such equipment and have a vol control that is linear throughout the full rotation

@StewartMarkley

4 жыл бұрын

vaughn tonkin The loudness contour changes because the ear equal loudness contour changes as a function of SPL, which is why it’s called a loudness control. I always used it on my Crown preamp as I often listened at different levels depending on the song. I don’t foresee it coming back however even with the standalone tone controls that are finally emerging. But it’s really nice to see some manufacturers address the need for simple tone controls, and actually improve them with some extra flexibility beyond the classic bass and treble controls.

@vaughntonkin539

4 жыл бұрын

@@StewartMarkley I hate the way the tone curve changes when vol ctrl goes past 6/10, I like the vol control to be a straight potetiometer without loading caps dictating the response, I do use bass & treble controls to fix the sound, the vol knob doesn't dictate the response according to position without LN button engaged, on midget amps that have full time loudness, I get in there and rip it out, again giving the amp uniform response throughout the vol knob range

I am an audiophile and I have struggled for years finding the perfect sound without Equalisers or tone-control. Different speakers, different amps, different kabels but never did I find the joy in listening music as I did in my teenage years, when I had a Siemens audio system with a double 9 band equalizer. And then in 2012 I sold al my audiophile stuf, I was fed up with the fact that no system was able to give me joy with all sorts of music and recordings. I bought my first AV receiver, a slimline Marantz NR1604, with Audyssey room correction. After some trial and error I learned how to use the Audyssey equalizer in the right way, and I was stunned, this sounded so mutch better with the same speakers that I allso used on my previous amp. This 7 channel, €699 receiver gave me back the joy in listening, I have used this receiver for 6 years and then upgraded to the Marantz SR5013. I have spent 10 times as much money on amps in previous years but it did not give me the satisfaction, so for me there wil never be an audio system without an equalizer again.

Kudos to Yamaha for still having tone controls on all their stereo amps

Happy owner of the Schiit Loki. I see no negatives so far. Love being able to tweak poor recordings a bit. Bring back the Loudness Button!!! Love it for late night casual listening!

I'm lucky enough to live about five minutes from the Schiit store on Market Street in Santa Clarita, CA. I was there for several hours yesterday talking to one of the founders (fantastic guy) He gave me an incredible demo of the Loki, and to make a very long story short, it blew me away. Even on a 1970 Carpenters CD the Loki made that recording sound alive. You could hear Karen Carpenter's lips forming the words. The sonic experience was like the difference between a 1970's TV and a flat-screen OLED. There was that much of a difference in clarity and imaging. Even on a Rat Pack live CD, I could hear the atmosphere of the room. Dean Martin was alive and singing right in front of me. It was almost holographic. Then we switched to acoustic guitar. The metal sound of the strings rubbing against the fingers was magical. For each selection, the Loki was turned off and then on. You suddenly realize how flat and boring most recordings are when the Loki is disengaged. When it's suddenly turned back on every cut is alive again. I've gone on way too long, and there is so much more to say, but I'll just say that I'm excited to purchase one and hear everything I've been missing.

I bought a Schitt Loki and its the best tweak for correcting a bit of bass emphasis in my listening room. Love it

I'm still using the Sansui integrated amplifier I bought in the summer of 1972, and I'm so glad it has tone controls! My room, in the house I've been in for the last year, is pretty bright, and I just haven't had the energy to fix that, yet. Add some bass. I'm happy.

Great topic Steve. I have 3 Luxman preamps from the late 70s all with tone controls. Luxman CL35 MkIII (tube/solid state), the CL350 (solid state) and the C1000 ( solid state from Tim de Paravicini). The C1000 has a linear equalizer too. Some the newer Luxman integrated amps have tone controls. It’s nice to have the option of using the controls and I like the look of their designs.

Yes, yes. I want to ENJOY what I'm listening to, if some old recording has irritating, squeaky, highs, or is all muddy, I'd love to be able to dial it in, or at least make it not irritating. Thx Steve

Hey Steve I've had my EQ since 1985 and it's an audio control 10 and I'm still using it to this day with all my gear,,,,,And I love the fact that I can control the sound no matter what I'm playing

Good point! Having worked mixing live sound, EQ is part of the equation. Every channel of a mixing console whether it is analog or digital has individual tone controls. As far as I am concerned it can be part of being an audiophile. SAE Made parametric EQ,s that were great. There are many EQ’s in the musicians, commercial install and recording engineers Marketplaces. Why not in 2 channel audiophile systems.

All speakers aren’t the same people listening aren’t the same so tone controls should be there listeners might not like the sound coming out but when they can adjust it it’s wonderful

Very interesting. I have always loved to mess up my tone controls to achieve the sound that I wanted to listen to. I do not dapple in audio like I used to but I do spend a lot of time with digital photography and I find it interesting there are is a large number of people who hate photoshop or any other raw editor because they feel that they should take pictures straight out of camera not realizing set the camera is doing the processing for them. I suppose it's a differences between being an artist or artistic versus being just a user. I just subscribed to this very interesting channel, thank you for sharing.

As a live sound engineer, Tone controls are useful for treble heavy speakers that are bright or bass that is super boomy, I like to cut rather than boost frequencies and only by 3db to 6db 👍would love to hear others input.

@craigellsworth3952

29 күн бұрын

That is the trip. Most people ADD here and there. Sometimes taking away can improve a recording.

I totally agree with the tone controls...These settings really enhance and improve the listening experience. For example when I listen to classical music, I usually increase the bass level and sometimes the trebles to hear the orchestra much better (depending the sound quality of the CD I am going to listen to), and when I listen to rock music I lower the bass a little bit, so I can hear the higher tones, the instruments, the voice, and all the details a little bit clearer and better. It's a very useful feature the modern audio systems have that actually helps me a lot.

Yeah, Steve! I used to have tone controls on my Kenwood KR-9600 receiver and haven't had them on any piece of gear since, EXCEPT when I purchased the NAD 325BEE. That little amp had bass and treble tone controls. Very well executed and effective, those tone control were, as they allowed for this little amp to get "tuned" to the listening room and fool my ears that I was listening to a much more expensive system. Mind you that this little NAD was in a system with the CAL CL-15 CD player and Totem Acoustic Hawk loudspeakers. I'm a believer in tone controls, yet my current system has none. I might have to pick up a Schiit Loki to find out what I'm missing....

You're absolutely spot on Steve. I play and record music and eq is indispensable in the initial process and mastering. I control the final mix and recording that my listeners hear immensely, for the better or worse! Why not have the ability as a "listener"/"audiophile" etc to do the same for numerous variables including and most importantly to please one's ears! Recently bought a vintage Pioneer SX100TW and it has tone controls which I use, and oh my, a loudness switch which I use as well! (don't tell anyone). The Schiit Loki is tempting as are other more extensive eq devices in pro audio music stores. Great topic.

@vaughntonkin539

4 жыл бұрын

Turn off that bloody loudness switch, it degrades sound when vol knob reaches 65% on weak program material

Just watching your video from france on my old Technics amp, i turned left the bass button as every night, quiite useul. nice videos take care

Very pertinent!!! Tone Controls were a-l-w-a-y-s included with Dynaco, Hafler, and Parasound. I like them and have always used them...on specific necessary situations. Otherwise, the "tone defeat" button is always handy!

I'm thrilled with what my Loki has done for my home setup. Now I wish I could cough up the cash for more of them haha

I love the nice graphic equalizer on my older JVC SR-301 receiver. For me It’s a useful tool. For me it is acceptable! 👍🏻 “to each it’s own”.

Wonderful review I completely, I agree tone controls are a must. I always wondered why they stopped making them. I use software tone controllers because I cannot find any. I love listening to good music, no matter what genre, I listen from Folk, Classical, Irish, and Italian folk, old bollywood, Pop to Rock in different languages, if the song appeals to me I listen. All my purest friends do not want an equalizer or a sub and listen to only a certain stream. For me music is what one likes and how one likes it, there are no rules, no one should decide how and what you like. An equalizer comes very handy when you are listening to very old recordings, old blues, Mariachi recordings etc. you can tweak it to bring out what you like best.

Great video. Don’t forget the unusual but effective system on Quad preamps.

I was taught that room acoustic design combined with a pink noise generator, calibrated mic with frequency display graph and multi-band eq rig was key to getting the best flat audio reproduction (back in the 70s) ... was that wrong? I experienced Trinity Colleges Listening Theater when they added an incredible 70mm projection and matching sound system, just for Apocalypse Now and a few other 70mm movies, back then. It was amazing! You were IN the movie! But I knew where to sit ... 12th row, center where they had used a n-echoing head to calibrate the system (with a full theater of volunteers, of course!). That was sound!!! You could feel the choppers approaching before you could hear them. The only thing missing was the sense of smell. LOL

I like having the option to color or to correct the sound if needed. I have had my 12 band equalizer for like 15 years now and I couldn't imagine my system without it. Also tone controls is one of the reasons why I use vintage gear.

Hello Steve, and yes to tone control. On the topic of EQ I refer to that more for room correction then "tone control. With my Yamaha I am able to go pure direct and still accentuate via EQ. I am one of those Vietnam era vets that got into gear as an investment (duty free/tax free) and have not looked back ! But yes to the tone controls for all the obvious reasons you mentioned.

When I first got into high fidelity in the late 1960s, My first system was an Allied Radio Knight 44 watt amplifier Model 940A. It had tone controls and a "Contour" switch which is the same as today's "loudness" controls. It was a basic tube design with 6BQ5 output tubes. I was into the "purist" idea of always listening with the controls centered (flat). The problem was that when set for flat, you needed to listen at rather high volume to get decent sound. I live in a duplex now and I can only play loud if my neighbor is not home. I tend to play at a lower volume a lot of the time and the tone controls are a MUST. I would NOT buy a product that doesn't have tone controls in the preamp section. I also use a ten band per channel octave equalizer (Biamp model EQ/210) to adjust for the roll off of the low bass that is specified to be down 3 db at 30 Hz. As well as adjustment for the room. My current system is centered around a Marantz 3300 preamplifier and Marantz model 250 power Amp, driving Acoustic Research AR-3a speakers. Also included is a Thorens TD 125 turntable with a Rabco SL-8E tone arm.

Even when I had equipment with tone controls, they were usually set "straight up" or "flat" anyway. Just sounded best that way to me. My new stuff (PS Audio) has no tone controls, and they sound awesome!

When I was running Monitor Audio speakers with a Denon stereo amp in a small room I was glad of the Denon's tone controls allowing me to /remove/ some bass. With my new Marantz I have Bass, Mid, and Treble controls, as well as a Direct Mode. I rarely use them, and it does sound different when they're in the circuit, but it certainly doesn't sound bad. Can't see a problem in having them there, personally.

After decades of avoiding equalizers and tone controls, I started experimenting with Sonarworks True-Fi headphone equalization software and was intrigued by the results. Finding it a bit limited, I went to their Reference 4 Headphone software. After using that for a while, I started to get dismayed that many of the headphones I was using were not supported by it, nor would they ever be. I latched onto the EqualizerAPO freeware with the HeSuVi add-on which allowed for complete customization of the EQ curves, and came with pre-set curves for over 700 in-, over- and on-ear headphones. I played with that for a long time, but I realized that I was just equalizing different headphones so they all sounded the same. It was then that I realized that I preferred the un-equalized sound of most of my headphones, reveling in the differences, and so I am back to avoiding equalizers.

I love Tone Controls and EQ’s. When I bought my current system, I specifically chose Parasound Halo products because the preamp had tone controls on it. I could’ve spent more money perhaps, bought something better, but I like having the ability to tweak the sound of my music. That’s also why I love vintage products as well.

RME-ADI 2 has one of the most customizable EQs and I love it, and I didn’t think I’d use it when I made the purchase.

@bradystallings4739

4 жыл бұрын

me too! RME-ADI 2 DAC/PREAMP, 5 band "parametric EQ" plus Bass and Treble knobs, B & H video/audio NY city. $USD 1150. (remote included) A bit complex but it is GERMAN !!

I’m a vintage guy. I started out using my dads vintage pioneer tube amps. Those both have bass and treble controls. I eventually got into Mcintosh gear for my own system. I have a mx110 preamp and that has bass and treble controls. Its so necessary to me. I have a pair of klipschs cornwalls, a pair of ar3a’s, and quad esl 57’s. They all sound their best with different tone control settings. I recently tried hooking up my dark voice headphone amp to the tape monitor out on the mx110. I’ve never heard so much detail extracted from my vinyl. It almost made me cry it was so beautiful. But the tape monitor out by passes the tone controls on the mx110. I feel a helpless or lost without it. The sound coming from my Sennheisers is excellent but I feel like I want to tweak the tone here and there, but I can’t. So I was thinking about getting the shiit Loki, or at least seeing if it will work in this situation.

I definitely like having the option of tone controls. Everybody has a different idea of what sounds nice. I like a bright sound and feel that my speakers sound much better with a little bit of a treble boost. I also tend to dial back the bass a touch on some music, but not all. It's fun to play around and see if you make the overall sound more pleasing.

I make records for a living and couldn't do my job without eq. I think tone controls are essential as no one has the same room or furnishings or uses the exact same equipment. Thank you for your great videos as always.

The 5-band eq built into my Mac receiver is a big help for spoken-word listening, especially when my big nearby window is open with the dull hum of the city coming in. The treble boost is invaluable. Like right now, listening to Steve and other people talk on KZread on the first really warm day of spring. Other times it re-makes a barely-listenable recording with curiously washed-out and attenuated bass into something highly listenable. (And re-listenable.) Flat listening's always good for discovering a recording's character, though.

I have just sold my "Audiophile Modern Equipment" and went back to vintage audio. One of the main reasons was tone control, especially at different volumes. Since COVID, my wife works at home, so I cannot listen to music at louder volumes like I did before. I found with my Usher speakers that they really needed power to come alive. At low volumes, they just did not sound full and proper as powered by the Rega Aethos. When connected to my Harmon Kardon 930, I was able to add a Contour (loudness) and boost the tones so that the sound is full at very low listen volumes. Then there is the challenge of my room which includes a Livingroom, dining room, large hallway, entrance to kitchen and stairway to the basement. The room itself acts like an equalizer, but outside of my control. I find that I quite enjoy having the ability to change that using my HK 930 combined with an EQ8 to compensate for my room and also the listening volume level. I also adjust for older recordings, tapes and cassettes to enhance my listening pleasure. I now believe that if you have a dedicated listening area designed for sound, and only listen to amazing recordings, then the Class A/B approach without tone adjustments would be desirable. I guess it comes down to what you enjoy and I am finding now that I am enjoying the music, all of it, without regard to the recording quality since I can easily adjust the sound to make it more enjoyable to my ears in my listening environment. Now its all about the music :)

Well, interesting that you brought it up right now, since I am experimenting with a new setup. A few months ago I finished restocking some old 3 way speakers of mine with parts from Dayton and Fountek ... now I completed the setup with a DAC, the smsl sanskrit. The amp is a Denon Receiver, model 1911. For now its configured in stereo and I prefer the "pure direct" mode, its indeed the most brilliant one. And with that new DAC its even more crystal clear, sometimes it feels I could grab the sounds from midair, even with this budget model of a DAC ... amazing! Maybe the pure signal processing is the right way, leaving EQ's n stuff for the software. Oh I forgot to mention, the hole thing is fed by my PC. I use foobar for musicplayback. An upsampling addon to bring the samplarate up to 88.2KHz ... the sanskrit is then set to 352.8KHz. Any thoughts on my ramble? :-)

@baldevis

4 жыл бұрын

I've come to the same conclusion about eq....it should only be in the digital domain - no hardware. My PC-based system uses the Peace EQ software, but once the signal leaves the PC I keep it as clean and high-quality as possible, including high-grade cables and interconnects. I personally need EQ to enjoy my music and always have. But years of experience with analog EQs has put me off of them. They do too much damage to the resolution of the signal.

@Kapitaen_Flauschbart

4 жыл бұрын

@@baldevis Agreed! And the term "resolution" hits the nail!

Good ol' Steve ... you gotta love him ! He's opposite of Paul ... I made a pro grade pre amp and it has a little button on the front panel that simply re routes the signal path via an active tone network if the signal needs adjustment...

@Wolfgang3418

2 жыл бұрын

Do you mean you have all the knobs shielded and only the bypass-switch on front? Please explain. I'm about to build an Elliott-EQ these days, esp Project 75.

very good question ...and great video !!

I love having tone controls, at least basic like bass and treble. I would love to see more manufactures bring them back as long as if it is fully bypassed.

@GisliKarlGislason

4 жыл бұрын

Yamaha amps have tone controls with and a pure direct mode that bypasses the tone controls

@falungongboy

4 жыл бұрын

My optimus equalizer has bypass, comes in handy to compare changes!!

I recall the first time I was shown a "graphic equalizer" in the late 70's. I remember how nice the sound was from his stereo and said so. Which he replied, "Yeah, watch this..." and started playing with the equalizer... he was not so much, as he explained playing with the music but adjusting for the room acoustics. I must say what was nice sounding turned in to brilliant sound.

I used to have my input / outputs as "direct" mode, no coloring of the sound etc. And it does provide more details in the sound when you do that, especially if you have a good DAC. But lately I've thought to myself, well.. I enjoy the sound a bit more this way. And I started using the tone controls. And I enjoy the music more now.

My main preamp only has two volume knobs (except selector). And yes it's circa 1986. I have another preamp (NAD) with the whole works, tone, balance, infra defete, bass boost, etc. I enjoy switching them out periodically and throw into the mix a small tube integrated amp with just a volume knob. No clear winner. That Schiit piece looks like a fun addition to most anyone's system.

Equalizers are a must. I have Teac =izer from the mid 80's with a Hafler 60 wpc amp and preamp. Will be upgrading to a pair of Schiit Aeger 80wpc monoblocks, Freya S and of course, the Loki.

My tube amp has no tone control's and tried living with out them for about a month. I decided to pull out my Pioneer SG-9500 12 band EQ that I've had since new in 1976 and due a cleaning and Deoxit fader lube on the sliders. Once done I added it into the system,sliders are quiet and turned amp up with no music and it was completely quite. Really happy with the way it sounds now ! Would like to get the new Loki Max, but for now the Pioneer is working great for a 47yr old piece of equipment .

I like the NAD approach on my receiver. It has treble and bass controls, and a bypass button. I usually use the bypass, but have used the tone controls to improve some recordings.

The Loki is part of my headphone set-up (Schiit Modi 3 -> Schiit Loki -> Schiit Magni 3) and I love it! - I’m treble sensitive (and a bit sound sensitive), which means I listen at relatively low volumes. The Loki allows me to boost the bass a bit so that my music sounds full even at low volumes.

@Montreal_Audio_Systems

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly if your an audiophile your supposed to change gear not turn knobs to get your sound right.

@richardellard

4 жыл бұрын

@@Montreal_Audio_Systems That's funny, but you're completely right.

Wow, thank you very much for this video! Since I was a little kid 30 years ago I always honestly thought, that tone controls and equalizers werde something ONLY audiophiles would use!! I'd never thought it is something they would avoid... Why was I thinking that? Because all the professionals in music production, the musicians, the guys in the studio, even in the theater were I work now, had a lot of tone control possibilities. Big equalizers with dozens and hundreds of knobs and buttons always faszinated me, for all the skills and knowledge you need to tweek the sound to the prefered liking or need. I was always irritated by systems, that had no possibility of tone control in any form. I thought, yeah, they are expensive but they look cheap, because they never gave me that semi-professional studio feeling that I always related to true audiophily. Then, I guess, I'm not an audiophile, because I don't like lazy systems were all you can do is put an audio source in, press play and put the volume up and down - regardless if they cost only 20€ or 20.000€. If I love the freedom to control the tone too much to be an audiophile, I can live with it. Please, I hope nobody got offended by my comment!? It's just intendet as an expression of my confusion. For 30 years I believed the complete opposite to be true, than what I learned today in this video - that audiophiles always long for more tone control, not absolute purity. And at this point I find it hard to understand, this quest for purity! I thought pure sound is always technicaly impossible, when the audio signal goes through any kind of electronic equipment. That the only way to enjoy music in its purest form would be to actually go to classical concerts or to jazz concerts were they play on analog instruments without electronic enhancements of any kind (like microphones and amps)... Anyway! You've got yourself a new subscriber!

So glad you hit this topic. I love my Loki and just never understood this puritanical view. I listen to post metal, I want a certain sound. I listen to Anna Calvi, I want something different. Listening to music is generally a most personal experience for me and often with headphones. So yeah, I like it tailored to my preference and more options and control the better.

I have an entry level Onkyo 100 watt RMS stereo receiver with a tone control bypass. I first the music seemed to have less fullness than with using the tone controls to boost the bass and treble but now that I used the control bypass I think the sound is so much better without using tone controls. I've heard that tone control were intended to improve deficiencies in the speakers to improve sound quality. But with Onkyo receiver connected to Polk Audio speakers I don't there is any sound deficiency. My more more modest system sounds great without using tone controls that colorize the music. The sound is balanced and stereo separation is improved. If you like your music digital compact discs as much do, here's a tip that that will greatly improve your sound if your equipment has the features to do this. I use a combination CD and blu ray player. Connect an HDMI cable from your player to an available HDMi port on the back of your flat screen TV. Run an optical cable to a good quality digital converter and from there use higher quality RCA type cables and leave the source selector on TV all the time unless you have components that need to use another input. The sound quality will be amazing. It least is for me a vast improvement from using RCA cables from an a CD only player to your receiver. I have a Onkyo CD only player that was having some trouble reading a CD now and so I put it away and began using my blu ray player to play my compact discs.

Great discussion and quite interesting! I would like to offer a slightly different perspective why I often prefer to have less knobs. While I can totally relate to the purity argument, it is often also about consciously limiting choice. If there is a knob, I often find myself tweaking and second guessing etc, instead of just enjoying the music. There are so many options all over the world, so sometimes it is nice when the options are simply reduced to the bare minimum. It is similar to the tone knobs on a guitar, while at times incredibly useful, sometimes it is nice to not have the option and just play, and for a moment just skip the endless chase of tone. I am not saying this is a perfect argument, just providing some perspective.

I have a Denon PMA 2000 and the tone controls are my loudness function, when I play soft I use them, when I play louder I bypass them. I am lucky that I have the option and even think about getting a Loki as I am so happy with my mani. Schiit is a great company.

I use a Onkyo P-3060R pre with the matching M-5060R amp every day. The pre has bass and treble, mm and MC, you can flip L and R channels, mono, and you can isolate L or R mono to play through both speakers. And I love it

I like tone controls for bass, mid, and treble. A nice equalizer to go with it also.

I like the the tilt-controle in the quad 33 and 44 pre-amps a lot, specialy when you play vinyl

As we get older we tend to lose the higher frequencies of sound. Our hearing becomes limited and it is harder to hear the top end of the audible spectrum. An amp with tone controls enables you to combat this by turning up the treble response and perhaps also turning down the bass.

@aarongarney2118

4 жыл бұрын

This is why I’m after an EQ. Gotta bring the mids and highs up!

@upliftingsiren4946

Жыл бұрын

I have a roll off in the highs and im only 18 y old i also have slight stres tinitus so i love to boost the higs but i also like my bass

My Nimis has no tone controls but my old NAD had and could be bypassed. I don't miss them.

I made the mistake of getting a nice amp without tone controls. Now I’m using a Technics spectrum equaliser and super happy with it. Only cost $200 on eBay and it blew me away how good it is. Absolutely no noise and the soundstage actually improved. Best $200 I’ve ever spent.

Thanks for posting this video. Not only do I like bass and treble, but I miss having a tape monitor for connecting an equalizer. I have to use a separate receiver, with a tape monitor for listening to vinyl and another for surround sound. Why don't any of today's receivers have tape monitors? Let us have more choices.

A few years back i had an ADC 10 band eq in my system. it had a "bypass" button, so was easy to skip the filters if i wanted. i never wanted. everything sounded awesome through a properly balanced system. admittedly i was running some homemade speakers, which probably benefited from it more than off the shelf ones, but it was certainly a valued addition to the stack of gear. Still have it in storage somewhere, the only reason it's not part of the current system is i can do all that in digital now.

=izers are a must. Have a Teac =izer and Hafler amp/preamp all from mid 80's. Will be upgrading to Schiit Aegir monoblocks, Freya S and of course, the Loki.

I discovered my equalizer settings several months after getting my receiver... it brings the speakers to life.

I love my old Mac pre-amp with separate bass/treble for left and right (I think speaker placement will sometimes involve different tone adjustment for left or right) and its variable loudness control also. Sorry to see those go as they could just put by-pass circuits in for those that don't want them. I guess I'm not in the "accurate" camp, but in the "tweak and sounds good" camp

I use the tone controls on my Sansui 3000A receiver and use an Optimus 10 band equalizer with it. There are always some adjustments that can be made to your environment to get the sound you like.

I use a Loki in my system,it's nice to have the ability to use or not use Tone Controls. Consist of Hovland,Proceed and Maggie 1.7i.

Got my 1980's 10 band stereo equalizer with the flashy dancing spectrum analyzer and I love the damn thing. Some recordings benefit greatly from small tweaks...

I would not have purchased my current high-end system without "tone" controls. I purchased the Legacy Audio Wavelet preamp/DSP/EQ with the Legacy Audio Focus XDs and love the tone control features that go beyond treble and bass controls. It allows me to determine how much base or treble I like and will never go back to not having this feature.

I remember back in 1980 graduating from my JBL 4311b's & buying my Dahlquest DQ-20s & the dealer ( still in business ) showing me the PS Audio preamp & trying to wrap my head around the fact that it didn't have any tone controls. It took a lot for me to take the leap but it did end up blowing my Kenwood C1 Basic preamp into the weeds none the less.

my RME DAC has Hi/Lo knobs and a full spectrum EQ if you dig in the menus. Very handy tool indeed.

I simply seek out vintage equipment - back when the manufactureers considered those controls normal and perhaps even essential. I especially like the Luxman L 480 integrated amplifier I have that offers further specific frequency cuts via some toggle switches. Even a loudness switch is uncommon, great for very low level listening. I find the Vincent SV 236 MK one of the few modern integrated amps that also feature tone controls. There are many times I have to use them to some degree due to what a recording lacks. I have been entertaining purchasing a Loki as well.

A couple years ago I had to replace my receiver and had to look long and hard at what was out there because not a whole lot comes with a "tape monitor" so I could use my EQ. You cant build and rebuild rooms, take down the family pictures for room treatments and take all your furniture out but one chair for every recording made. Rush sounds great out of the box, the Go Go's sound like they were recorded in a tin can. I like to use this example. What do you do in a car? You have multiple seats in different fixed locations, speaker placement is limited at best and you are not putting room treatments over your windshield. You have to do with what you have to work with. I have also herd some of the best systems in the world up to about a decade ago and imho they all needed a 10 to 20% drop in the 1khz range. I wouldn't own a system without a EQ let alone without bass and treble controls.

I grew up with Pioneer's 'Loudness'.I couldn't live without it. When CDs became the rage, I stopped using Loudness and felt it wasn't necessary anymore. A few weeks ago, I bought a pair of old Castle Warwick speakers for 70 Euro and quite frankly, I was very impressed with them, but I noticed they produced 'elevated highs' on certain recordings or music genres. So for the first time in decades (!!!) I'm using Tone Control to change the sound, not to boost bass or treble, but to reduce it (the treble, in this case). And the Castle speakers sound pretty amazing because of it.

@patriciawilson9666

Жыл бұрын

I have A Pioneer SX-780 and Sansui 551,5050 and a gorgeous G2000.The loudness switch always stays engaged on every unit.Always.

I don't use them on my Sansui but they are there, I keep them at 12 o'clock flat. My speakers are too sensitive and if I boost the bass it gets too boomy and if I boost the treble, the highs are harsh!

In my mid-fi days in the early 1980's, I had an ADC 12 band paragraphic equalizer. The center frequency of each band could be adjusted slightly up or down. I was very proud of myself for a few minutes the first time I zeroed in on a small problem, and found the exact frequency to reduce by one or two decibels. But that correction hardly changed the listening experience for that album. The equalizer was also audible when switched in an set to flat, and I eventually pulled it out of my system.

Everyones ears are different. Every listening environment is different and everyones music preferences are different. So, while not a high end listener but an enthusiast, I still have to say having a component equalizer or built in equalizer program only makes sense. In the early 70s I bought a lot of Pioneer upper level stuff while in Okinawa, including a manual slide equalizer with microphone, 24 or 32 frequency slider controls (I forget). Later on I bought a Techniques EQ with manual plus pre sets, a more complete control set and a hanging microphone plus test tones on a Cassette to calibrate the whole thing. Like it perfectly flat? No problem. Need to offset the heavy drapes in a room full of windows with carpet? No problem. Can it help with wood floors and paneled walls in an old turn of the century home? Yes. I enjoyed them immensely, and my son has all that equipment and enjoys them now. My current AV setup has built in programs for different types of response, music and environments, almost too many to use. I tailor the sound to my wife preference to hear voice clearly or my preference for a fuller more robust theater sound. Thankfully, I can have what I want.

I built my own speakers using high quality high efficiency drivers. Because of space constraints, I had to use smaller than optimum sized enclosures. This resulted in an early bass roll-off. Using the bass control on my integrated amp, I can bring the bass right up to where it is just right. It now also measures flat.

I loved this discussion. (and the shirt) Gotta say that if I could afford to update my amp regularly, then anything without tone controls, wouldn't get a look in,at my house! I use the loudness button,cut the base and the treble where I reckon the music needs it,and other times leave the tone controls flat,for example listening to a well cut cd. Tone controls are fab. Especially on amps with silver facias and big knobs.

@vaughntonkin539

4 жыл бұрын

Turn off that stupid cheesy loudness button, the sound degrades @65% vol on weak program when clipping no where in sight

@screedy1050

4 жыл бұрын

@@vaughntonkin539 Boo. Your 2 months too late anyway on the conversation. To each his own with what sounds best anyway.

I always Liked Luxman's take on tone controls, and one thing I sometimes bring in from the studio world is the old hardware version of the BBE Sonic Maximizer that makes all dull recordings sound fantastic again, but that one is more timing control than tone control...

Went back and forth over choosing Loki or a hi Rez DAP for my Xmas toy. Went with the DAP finally when I realized - it has an Equalizer! And yet...I know turning the Loki knobs would be more fun.

My personal opinion is equaliser definitely deserves a place in a setup.

@keithmoriyama5421

Жыл бұрын

Equalizers (not tone controls) are the damnedest things to use. The problem is every change produces a phase shift. Every change sounds like it's a change for the better but, it never sounds quite right... until you hit the defeat button.

I love great sound , but I'd rather be able to change my sound to my taste! All recordings are an illusion, audio is supposed to sound beautiful IMHO! The engineer tampers with the sound to give it dimension, and music sounds different in every environment! The recordings are all fake, why not enjoy YOUR sound!

@3lueant347

4 жыл бұрын

recordings are not illusion. They are a mediated representation.

@waylonkurts3938

4 жыл бұрын

I agree! The notion of "as the composer intended" is somewhat of a myth. Listen how you like it.

@timspence3092

4 жыл бұрын

I see this as something akin to interpreting poetry; the artist has some ideas of what his or her art represents, but each reader or listener is free to come to his or her own conclusions. Drawing from different experiences and perspectives than the writer may lead to ideas which are quite different from the writer's intentions, but which are equally valid. Something rather mundane to the writer might seem profound for a reader in a different time or context. Also I agree with Vinyl City when he states that audio is supposed to sound beautiful. Why would one want poor-sounding recordings to be reproduced accurately? In my opinion a good place to start when building a music system is to make it sound listenable for sustained periods even with lesser recordings and then dial in more "accuracy" without losing the "sweetness". Yes, please do enjoy your sound, and your own ideas of what this all means...

@michaelangeloh.5383

4 жыл бұрын

The recording isn't "fake", the recording is the recording, it is the way it is. It's a fixed entity by definition, it's a recording. - What's "fake", or an "illusion" is the way your perceive that recording. Like you said, the environment you're in, but also the equipment you use and how you use that equipment. - That's why we actually NEED control over the character-output, much like we need variable levels of output, as it needs to be adapted to the environment. - Imagine having a monitor, as in a screen, with no controls over its output. People would freak out because not everyone is in the same environment. Some need it to be brighter or less bright, some have different colors of light in the room. - It's not even about taste, it's about calibration and correction as well.

@michaelangeloh.5383

4 жыл бұрын

@@waylonkurts3938 The problem with that statement is that often the composer's intention isn't represented anyway. Many artists have no idea about mixing and mastering and what they experience in the studios will almost never end up on the recording anyway. - Yes, many will oversee and co-produce the records, because they're the artists after all, but considering how many records don't even sound that good, no way that's what they really intended. - On top of that, they're using completely different equipment from the consumer indeed, so indeed we couldn't even hear/experience it in the same way. - Look at Hans Zimmer's insane wall of speakers... Good for him with all his intentions of low-end rumble, but most of us won't experience that outside of the theaters.

Bring em back! Some sound engineers make bad choices. A little tweek by the end user can make the music more enjoyable.

At one time I borrowed a 5 band Parametric Equalizer from a buddy's store, Phase Linear I believe. Very interesting it was.

I know I am late to the party as this video was posted over a year ago, but here are my thoughts regarding tone controls. I have no problem with having or using tone controls. If you have them, you don’t have to use them, but if you want or need to use them, they are there. Being honest and up front about it, I process the hell out of everything I listen to. Many of my preamps have multiple bass and treble controls with different center frequencies. You also have to understand that most of my equipment is vintage from around 1956, up through the “golden age of audio” so nothing that would be considered to be ultra high end audio. I’m talking about things like my Pioneer SX-1980 type equipment and speakers like the Altec Lansing Model 19’s. I also utilize an active audio processor that has both a dynamic range expander and a set of variable notch filters which can be varied to control the roll in and out points and sensitivity. Depending on the system I am listening to, I frequently have a 12 to 20 band graphic equalizer engaged with a spectrum analyzer monitoring the signal and (heaven forbid) a reverb unit. Sacrilegious in most all high end audio circles. I use all these things as I have a number of rooms with complete audio systems in them, each with different preamps, power amps (some tube, but mostly transistor), different speakers and room placements. Every system sounds different, but can be adjusted to suite my tastes. After all the only true to live performance sound is in fact a live performance. Every recording studio is different as is every live concert hall. Anything you listen to in your home is sound “reproduction”, not sound production. It has be altered by the recording engineer, RIAA equalized (if it’s on vinyl) with any number of other tweaks and compensations. No recording engineer could possibly know in advance what room acoustics, speakers, speaker placement or components I am going to be using to listen to what has been recorded. So as a member of the group of the highest level thinking creatures on this planet (humans), I reserve the god given right to turn any knob, move any slider or use any method to make the sound from my home system sound the way I like it. After all, I am the only one who has to be pleased with the sound. No one else. My home, my system, my rules! :-)

Hi Steve, yes you are absolutely correct that "purists" think it is taboo to mess with tone controls because it represents a barrier between the source and the listener a.k.a audiophile. I find a happy medium by "allowing" myself to use my tone control to compensate for whatever source of music I am playing that perhaps fall short of whatever musicality I am hoping to achieve. It's OK to admit it...hahah.