Queen vs 2 bishops is actually a general win because the fortress can usually be prevented. Same with Queen vs bishop and knight

@chessWoRpire1449

Жыл бұрын

Yess

It was cool but I thought you'd actually show the 4 piece mate against queen! BTW tablebase currently solves every endgame with at most 7 pieces on the board. Incredible!

@ChessVibesOfficial

2 жыл бұрын

I couldn't do it, Arthur! Actually I didn't have a lot of time to keep trying but it was rather difficult against stockfish

I love analysis of positions like these, even when they're not likely to happen often... (getting to the endgame with all 4 minor pieces against a queen, and no side has any pawns, is probably extremely rare) But I love it! And I love the way you explain everything, NM Nelson! Thanks!

Amazing video Nelson. Tx for sharing 👍🏽👍🏽

Loved this content. More of this please!

On the winning position half of this video, I would much rather see the actual winning strategy, rather than the random moves that we actually got.

2 knights and 2 bishops against a queen looks like a lot of fun

The win for white is the 4 minors, but I have no clue how to do it so I might rather have the queen because there is very little chance for me to lose that, the 4 minors especially with no pawns on the board means I'm going to have to be pretty precise and make sure to always be looking out for queen checks which is something I occasionally miss even with a bunch of pawns alive.

@davincitoredivinott1508

9 ай бұрын

Same for me, I would pick the queen vs 2 bishops in a real game

Very interesting content. Keep it up man🙌

Number 2(right) for win for white. 1, (left) draw.

i feel like the win for white on the second one comes from replicating the bishop fortress from the first case, but now you have two extra knights as compared to black on the first one.

Assuming the positions are supposed to be close, one of them is Q vs bb and one is Q vs bbnn, so you can kind of cheat the calculation and assume the bbnn is the best position.

youtube started suggesting me your videos a few days ago and i liked them all. you have a very sympathetic face, so i'm subscribing now.

My favorite chess channel without a doubt. Amazing content like always👍

Tbh I would be happy to get any one of these endgames in a real game just cuz they are so rare

My choice would depend on how much time I had. If I had loads of time on the clock, I'd want the four pieces. But if I was low on time, I'd want the queen.

I think in all 3 positions it might be extremely difficult to make any progress in less than 50 moves, unless you know what you are doing.

i think queen vs 2 bishops is a win in many positions, but it takes more than 50 moves so its a draw by the 50 move rule

@martinclever342

2 жыл бұрын

True, but the first position seems to be an "actual" draw. Otherwise, it would say "win prevented by the 50-move rule" in the tablebase.

@MKangu

2 жыл бұрын

No it looses easily!

@michaelf8221

2 жыл бұрын

@@martinclever342 @avinash actually this first position was a win for white. the DTM 52 measures in half-moves or "ply." So it was saying it was a mate in 26 with best play, which is definitely within the 50-move rule. Of course who's going to make all 26 of those moves with perfect play...

@nacho__063

2 жыл бұрын

could you explain the 50 moves rule?

@nashwinder

2 жыл бұрын

@@nacho__063 if 50 moves are made without pushing a pawn or capturing something, the game is a draw

Actually Q v 2B is almost always winning, although it might take more than 50 moves. The construction you showed in the video (bishops on f6 and g6/f7) is the only way to draw and white can generally stop black from getting to that construction. Q v B + K is very similar, again there is only one drawing construction in the corner (king on h8, bishop on g7, knight on e5), Q v 2K is a lot more drawish if the king and 2 knights are close together. Other interesting endgames are 2B v K and R + B v K + B (opposite colors!), both are winning but often take more than 50 moves.

Thanks for sharing

if 3 pieces are more like 10-11 points of material, that basically means the 2nd position is a game where you're up 5-6 points even though material is just +3 1st position is just +3 also you need at least 5 points of material to checkmate (excluding pawns)

In the 2 Bishops strategy it looks to me as if White's best strategy would be to immediately check Black's King. That means Black has to choose one of the Bishops to be pinned to get out of the check. If Black makes the mistake of moving his King, he's risking getting it pinned on the edge of the board, so he has to keep his options open and can only defend his Bishops. While White can't win easily, White might be able to force the draw out, if his Queen makes the correct moves. There look to me to be few moves that would win it for White on that board, so White obviously has to force the draw instead. I don't think Black can get out of a draw being forced without losing a Bishop. If that happens, Black is at risk of getting pinned on the remaining Bishop, and his King suddenly runs out of options. White's King being where it is also poses problems for Black, the Bishops can't move to attack it easily, because if they do they'd have to risk getting taken by White's King. While they can defend, they can't really attack without a serious risk to Black's King getting pinned on the edge of the board.

@DarkVoidIII

2 жыл бұрын

You also didn't show what Stockfish would play as Black on the first position. It would be interesting to see what the computer thinks it's best move is!

Good channel man.

as a noob, my brain: "why would i ever take 9 points over 12? it has to be the queen, otherwise the video might as well be titled Why are 12 points better than 9?" nelson: "it's a little more complicated than that." love you man, really appreciate the content.

Super, make please video how to win endgames: queen vs two bishops or bishop and knight or two knights

What book are these positions from? What's that old book you showed at the beginning?

I liked it,but i want to know how you checkmate in the wining pisition!😀👌💯(please.make avideo with the check mate)

"Never assume that you know what stockfish will do"

Exactly the kind of stuff I want to see. Could you explain some simple end game "rules" like 2 knights = win or lose or draw?, 2 bishops?, etc. And maybe also show how those types of wins would play out?

@dj1rst

2 жыл бұрын

Two knights is a draw, two bishops is a win, knight and bishop is a win. I once was blizing and in the endgame all I had was the knight and my opponent had a pawn and a bishop and my time was running out. In the last second I could either take the pawn or the bishop and I took the pawn because i knew that this was a draw. If my opponent had a pawn he could win. So my time ran out but it was a theoretical draw and therefore because of insufficient material the result was that it ended in a draw.

@drvofoka7033

2 жыл бұрын

@@dj1rst >knight and bishop is a win Yeah if you're 2K+ or playing a daily game lmao.

@michaelf8221

2 жыл бұрын

@@drvofoka7033 Go through the lichess studies and search for "advanced endgames you must know" - it's under the staff picks. In that study, the knight and bishop mate is broken down and explained really clearly for anyone to figure out.

@drvofoka7033

2 жыл бұрын

@@michaelf8221 Man I'm aware of HOW to do it (like the general strategy). Pulling that shit off when you're on the clock is way too hard though.

@RMF49

2 жыл бұрын

@i02 Two knights v a pawn can be a win but not always. Depends on how far advanced the pawn is. I think the procedure is, you blockade the pawn with one knight then corner the king with your king and other knight. Then run your blockading knight over to help checkmate. That releases the pawn and avoids stalemate that would otherwise occur with king and two knights v king. But if the pawn promotes too soon before your knight can get over to help checkmate it fails.

Try 2B+N v R... a win but 2N+B v R (probably) isn't as the Bishop can be taken :-)

Answer:

The four pieces - by far. Lots of practical chances for the defending side to blunder (in real otb play, not tablebase analysis). Only snag might be you win the queen and then have to demonstrate than you CAN mate with K+B+N.

The one on the left looks like a fortress to me. Bishops never move. Black king simply shuffles within the four squares f/g/7/8. White king is in a box. White queen can only attack laterally. But after more thought I see one problem with my idea. If white parks the queen on e6 that prevents black from just shuffling the king. A bishop will have to move and now it gets more complicated. I still think the one on the left is a draw and the one on the right is an overwhelming material advantage. Hard for a human to make progress while avoiding checks but probably a piece of cake for an engine.

Make tal games videos in his games there are so many sacrifices,tactics and complications

queen vs 2 bishops is a win prevented by 50 move rule

I don't want to sound mean Mr. Lopez, but queen vs two bishops has been proven by modern computers to be a win, because white can prevent black from getting to the fortress position. That being said, the position you showed is indeed a draw because it can be transposed into the fortress.

but you didn't explain the second position, just played a bit

the draw is actually a forced mate when played perfectly

What I figured, though I couldn't say how other than 4 pcs against a Queen. (I see you now have a full row of red-brown chess pieces on your board in the background.) (A mate in 52 moves - piece of cake! lol)

I thing the hardest forcing endgame was nnk vs kp...

I guess right! YAY

Please make a video about how to play against English opening as black....

Of course, with pawnless endings there's a "win", and then there's a "win in 50 or fewer moves". If it's the former but not the latter, well, that plus $1.59 will get you a cup of coffee.

IMO at a sub 1500 level having a queen is much easier to play.

Against 2 bishops, when queen is on e6 and black moves King to g7, what is black supposed to do if you move white king to f4?

I think 3 positions is too hard to grok. Comparing 2 variations of the same problem works and comparing 2 different positions works.

That end game book looks old!!!!!

I know 4 miners is better than a queen, but I rack the disciprine to use them properly!

Left one by thumbnail and the right one by video means the 4 piece endgame (honestly commented before video) Nice video thanx.

Wtf i have to know if you ever beat stockfish with the bishops and knights vs queen

I think 4pieces is a win because three pieces already outperform the queen. You told this in the last video.

I guess the left one is a draw and the right one is a win, so let's check now by watching your video !😁

So you have table base 7 piece. Was mate in 62

Very nice

Good night from Indonesia. Again, this video format should also stay forever!

Its a loss because the queen can maneuver with those 3x3 on either side

Good video

just by looking at the thumbnail, position 1 100%

Didn't Alpha zero beat two bishops with a queen?

if even you can’t checkmate with four pieces then isn’t it just effectively a draw? it doesn’t matter what the evaluation is if you can’t produce the result

@feebas5545

2 жыл бұрын

There is a checkmate (tablebase) but hard to pull off against good defence

@YuuseiKurobane

2 жыл бұрын

@@feebas5545 i dont think theres practical chances but anyway this position will almost never be reached

@feebas5545

2 жыл бұрын

The practical chances would actually be very promising against a human. Problem is what stockfish manages to pull off

Cool

9:26 knight e7?

Or how to win two bishop against knight

@kenhoadley1798

2 жыл бұрын

constrict the Knights movements pin it and win it... happened in a high level GM recently - forgot who

@vladislavchessmate1567

2 жыл бұрын

@@kenhoadley1798 Try! Its very hard to win

But 52 moves to mate is still a draw, right?

@mynameiguess4956

Жыл бұрын

Its 52 moves in total not 52 moves for white (Its mate in 26)

Neither one

Didn't like it (sorry about that). I never saw how it was a winning position. I never saw what the winning strategy was, if there was any. Thank you for your efforts. May you and yours stay well and prosper.

❤

That one last rook, still holding on to being a white piece, while all of his friends have turned to red. Thanks for the content, Nelson! Gone up 250 points since I started watching your stuff. Keep it up.

Actually, in the "winning" position, with 4 pieces vs a Queen, you can only take the queen in 61 moves. If black plays perfectly, it is a draw because of the 50-move rule.

@xavierheisler9318

2 жыл бұрын

mate in 61 doesn't mean they take the queen on move 61 they can force the capture on an earlier move before 50 move rule and 50 move rule would reset so the position isn't a draw, it just means that with perfect defense the king would get checkmated after 61 moves

.