To me, even if the details are greatly exaggerated, it's still very difficult to imagine how an entire army even half that size could have been lost with no survivors in a sand storm. The thing is that even one Roman legion on the march can't do it as one big mass of soldiers, they have marching columns that stretch out over miles, and that's only 5000 people with far less use of baggage trains than the Persians would have had. An army of 50000 would be dozens of miles long, or at least have separate marching columns split up taking slightly different paths, but even those would be miles long with baggage trains of their own as well. It's inconceivable to me that out of all these extremely long lines spread out over dozens of miles, not one of those people found a rock out cropping to hide in? Or was able to take cover in a wagon? Or going through a valley out of the way of the sand storm? Or even just missed the sandstorm entirely because they were in the back? 50000 soldiers over dozens of square miles couldn't find a single way to ride out the storm? It seems unlikely, boarding on impossible

@TheEudaemonicPlague

2 ай бұрын

I don't think you know how big a sandstorm can be....

@huntclanhunt9697

2 ай бұрын

Sandstorms can cover hundreds, or even thousands of square miles.

@Facetiously.Esoteric

2 ай бұрын

Bordering.

@mombaassa

2 ай бұрын

If an entire group is lost/die in an expedition, then there is no one to report the details. So, we won't know, if more than one calamity befell them. For example, hostile forces may have attacked them, their water/food supply was contaminated, an epidemic broke out...etc. Such events and a sandstorm, are not mutually exclusive. A large army may cope with such a set back, but two or more catastrophes, perhaps not. Indeed, one event, may precipitate another. An army weakened by disease or a sandstorm, is more likely to be targeted by other parties.

@LTPottenger

2 ай бұрын

It would be insane to send 50k people army to one area like that with no way to get water easily. I would guess they could arrive there, then after that one little problem and they are done. No water no food, try to walk out and die in the sand or get run down one by one.

The upvote button is not working, so i give you this 👍 so future archaeologists can see you got another upvote.

Almost midnight here and there is a new Historian's craft video? Sleeping has to wait.

I like your fourth theory. There was a great deal of intrigue surrounding the behavior and official history of Cambyses II. Most the the third book involves spurious stories about what a crazy dude he was. However, one point to note about the story of the lost army is that the supposed force of 50 thousand men were not the main force of Cambyses army. It is recounted that Cambyses split off this number from his main force, and sent them to a temple of Zeus (which were all over the place), while his main force went to do battle with Ethiopians. Furthermore, Herodotus makes it clear that nobody really knows what happened to this sub group of the army, and that the story about the sandstorm came from a few desert tribesmen. The entire story is very much a side note, and is not presented as established fact, only as a rumour. Given the sheer amount of rebellion and intrigue that is contained in the third book, concerning Cambyses, I think it is highly probable that this sub group of 50 thousand soldiers simply deserted Cambyses. That is to say, the whole mission to the temple of Zeus may be a story invented to account for mass desertion in the overall Persian contingent. There is no mention of which person Cambyses appointed to command them, and when he comes back from his disaster in Ethiopia (everyone starved before they engaged the enemy), he does not go looking for them. Nor does it make a lot of sense that Cambyses would launch a major campaign against Ethiopia at the same time as dividing his forces. It's worth considering that Herodotus himself does not make a big deal about this story, and that the popular fascination with this "lost army" is very much a creation of later historians. The entire affair is but one paragraph in the third book. "26. Thus fared the expedition against the Ethiopians: and those of the Persians who had been sent to march against the Ammonians set forth from Thebes and went on their way with guides; and it is known that they arrived at the city of Oasis, which is inhabited by Samians said to be of the Aischrionian tribe, and is distant seven days' journey from Thebes over sandy desert: now this place is called in the speech of the Hellenes the "Isle of the Blessed." It is said that the army reached this place, but from that point onwards, except the Ammonians themselves and those who have heard the account from them, no man is able to say anything about them; for they neither reached the Ammonians nor returned back. This however is added to the story by the Ammonians themselves:-they say that as the army was going from this Oasis through the sandy desert to attack them, and had got to a point about mid-way between them and the Oasis, while they were taking their morning meal a violent South Wind blew upon them, and bearing with it heaps of the desert sand it buried them under it, and so they disappeared and were seen no more. Thus the Ammonians say that it came to pass with regard to this army." The preceding paragraph mentions the division of forces: ".......when he heard the report of the Ichthyophagoi he began the march, ordering those of the Hellenes who were present to remain behind in Egypt, and taking with him his whole land force: and when in the course of his march he had arrived at Thebes, he divided off about fifty thousand of his army, and these he enjoined to make slaves of the Ammonians and to set fire to the seat of the Oracle of Zeus, but he himself with the remainder of his army went on against the Ethiopians."

@BORN-to-Run

2 ай бұрын

Thank you. It's certainly conceivable that a sand storm took them out. We may just have to wait until a violent North Wind blows to uncover what the South Wind buried.

@GothPaoki

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for actually taking the time to make that comment. I think the note about Herodotus not treating this seriously is a very important detail in understanding this story cause many people would just outright dismiss it because of Herodotus reputation and ofc on the other side it also shows that delving too deep on it is also probably not worth it.

@nodescriptionavailable3842

2 ай бұрын

Cool story bro

You wouldn't send 50,000 men to conquer a remote oasis. The logistics would be incredibly difficult. Like many ancient writings it's true but not factual. Well done video.

@qboxer

2 ай бұрын

It wouldn’t be inconceivable that Herodotus exaggerated or was fed such information from a source hostile to the Persians.

@vorynrosethorn903

2 ай бұрын

He's literally just writing down things people tell him that he thinks might be interesting, I'm sure the local legend was pretty spectacular. We would know the truth of it unless we find the army as it isn't uncommon that the historians are proved overly sceptical.

@surters

2 ай бұрын

At least 3 other example of people thinking they know the desert and they could make it. 1. Alexander the Great, who nearly died in the desert on the way home from India, 2. A roman General trying to conquer Saba, was mislead in the desert by a local guide, 3. A British army during the Sudan war, was advice to take a different route by a local. All 3 ended bad. Anyway it wasn't were long after the event the Herodotus wrote it down, like 40 year?

There's been a couple armies that went missing in the Egypt desert i know of a roman army that the remains of some of bodies were still found decade's after their deaths.

Interesting video. In 1996 the italian archaeologist Castglioni organized an in depth expedition in the area. He found a mass grave with plenty of human skeletons, hundreds of broken jars dating back to the VI century BC. Few jewels , an akinakes ( a persian or schityam sword ) a part of a persian ( undoubtly persian ) horse harness, some arrow points.Many of these finds are showcased in the Castiglioni museum.

Why should it be so strange that an army gets lost and dies from a sandstorm in the desert? Deserts are dangerous. Sandstorms can be extremely dangerous. Even today. No, it was probably not 50 thousand troops, but 5 or 10? Perfectly realistic. And still "an army". And even 50 thousand is not impossible, just less likely. Siwah or Dakla, either is plausible even if the original stated turn of events isn't. But things gets skewed when retold. And if less than 1% of the army manages to get back, well, any historian would likely call that being completely wiped out. I also recall reading back in the 80s about there being a small but steady stream of trade in artefacts in the region that was being assumed to originate from this lost army. But since it was profitable for the desert people who did the selling, obviously they had no interest in showing where it came from.

@neilreynolds3858

2 ай бұрын

I lived in the Mojave Desert for 30 years. I think it could be easily done by the desert. You learn that we're just ants crawling on the surface of the globe and not the arrogant kings of creation.

@Hannibal-Barca

2 ай бұрын

I find it unlikely that not a single local would open up at the prospect of getting rewarded

@DIREWOLFx75

2 ай бұрын

@@Hannibal-Barca The desert tribes in the area makes the Afghan clan culture look openminded(despite otherwise being radically different). If the chief or head lady of a tribe declares something "not for outsiders", the rest of the tribe WILL stick to that no matter what, simple as that. And the trade in artifacts from the desert has literally been ongoing for hundreds of years and provided a steady and relatively easy source of income. A reward would have to be MASSIVE to be worth sacrificing that.

@kawadashogo8258

Ай бұрын

I think what's considered strange isn't that an army could be destroyed by a sandstorm, per se, but that no solid evidence has ever been found for what would have been a fairly significant event.

@DIREWOLFx75

Ай бұрын

@@kawadashogo8258 Sure, but what if said evidence is buried under a 150m tall sanddune? That's the problem with deserts, it can take some tiny little change in conditions, and suddenly the winds change and the sanddunes that were there for centuries are gone in weeks or even days, while new dunes form somewhere else.

your shit is legit m8. keep em commin

@TheFallofRome

2 ай бұрын

Thank you!

I vaguely remember seeing or hearing somewhere that cambyses wanted to conquer Carthage but his naval forces were Phoenician and refused, is there anything to that? Im assuming he wasn't going to try to lead an army by land from Egypt to Carthage

@herbthompson8937

2 ай бұрын

I know Carlin says that about Carthage and the Phoenicians in his Kings of Kings series....so possibly

@VineFynn

Ай бұрын

​@@herbthompson8937I was told by a historian that carlin is a bad source

Remember a British actor who served into North Africa WW2 in an interview say he and his company got caught in a sandstorm stating you couldn't see the hanky held arms length, ended up not knowing where they were after storm and that they all feared they were going to die. Due to that interview, I believe the army could have been lost.

@Clyne-sv4hd

2 ай бұрын

Actors name please?

@LarthV

24 күн бұрын

Sure, but 50.000 is still a considerable number to vanish without a trace. It's just on another scale compared to the few hundreds of the battalion, I assume.

Yay, a new vid! Please, please make more playlists. Make an "all video" list too, so I can put you on repeat. And hopefully, fall asleep. 😊 What a pleasant way to relax.

Fantastic video. Personally, I like the Sandstorm theory, where somebody played Sandstorm by Darude, the soldiers had a rave and all died from a bad batch of ecstasy.

It is always a good day when you upload another video :)

You continue to drop the best history content on KZread. Love your channel, keep up the great work!

Subscribed. Excellent brief investigation into this intriguing story. Thanks.

Another interesting video, love this channel and appreciate the content. I learn something new each time

Very interesting! Thank you Mike!

Fantastic! This one a truly vexing mystery.

Nice, very interesting topic

Plenty of armies were lost crossing bodies of water. It is entirely conceivable that armies have been lost crossing bodies of sand. Being ambushed and beaten by rebel forces is also entirely believable. Let's not forget that Herodotus wrote down stories he encountered during his travels. It is highly unlikely that those stories had all the details right and likewise it would not be surprising if Herodotus made several mistakes writing things down. I think people would do better to accept that stories are stories and they are a great starting point for learning and investigating. I think the stories are also quite telling of people. Recall what Herodotus wrote about people living far north... :P

I remember reading this in Herodotus Histories. I always wondered if, maybe, with radar, some large amount of metal could be detected. Given the dry sands, ground penetrating radar should work quite well.

good video!

Thought the Scorpion King got them 😂

@comentedonakeyboard

2 ай бұрын

Njet they secretly defected to the Carthaginians Only published in Hunt for Red October in coded form of course😂

Please more mysteries……very enjoyable genre, god bless

Another theory: If Cambyses was fighting an insurgency that was based in the western deserts his generals certainly would have taken BOTH Dakhla and Siwa as well as any other large springs. So perhaps this army was lost from the combined effects of sandstorms and spreading its forces out too thin. Trying to hold all the population/water sources at once is basic desert fighting 101 but in that region in the face of an enemy practicing asymmetric warfare you have nowhere to go if the plan doesn't unfold perfectly. Imagine taking your first oasis and then splitting your forces to hold it while attacking the other. If that secondary attacking force was effectively blocked from the next water source they would certainly face annihilation and once they were eliminated by the environment, thirst, and enemy attacks, the second force would then be much easier to deal with. How many stragglers would be able to return to the nile if thirst was why they were defeated in the first place? In this theory the army would be lost in the desert sands between the two oases not between the oases (oases is the plural form of oasis) and Thebes. The army wouldn't be a cohesive force. It would have be split up on purpose to hold each oasis and later it would be split up even further as the men drifted off into small groups or even individuals desperate for water that they could not get from the enemy occupied oases.

Man it would be so awesome if we find a whole persian army perfectly preserved in the Egyptian sand. The things we could learn from such a huge discovery about warfare in antiquity. Also as someone who is reading histories right now you got to hand it to Herodotus. He has material for hundreds of KZread videos. Might I also add thaz, although I am no historian myself, I find the whole angle of this having been a campaign of Darius a bit weak. Herodotus main sources for Egyptian events, culture and history do not seem to have been persian but rather Egyptians such as these priests he constantly mentions in book 2. I don't think Herodotus Egyptian sources would have any reason to follow the propaganda narrative of Darius. Nonetheless this was once again an excellent and interesting video!!!

Interesting.I cant remember hearing of this before.So many good channels on youtube now! A thought: Mid latitude desertification has been happening since the last ice age and by it's very nature went through an accelerated phase.It's unlikely the ground level is anywhere near what it was.In theory even oases can be covered by dunes,only to pop up in another valley. So its kind of cool we can find any evidence at all.

3:31 cat-a-pult?

Any update on the Scythian city Gelonus 🙏

Right! That's a plausible theory. An implausible theory, however, always involves involves ancient aliens.

Who are we to doubt the power of Amun Ra? If Amun wanted to destroy a heathen army of 50,000 with the sands of the desert then so be it.

They call Herodotus the father of history and the father of lies. He didn't spend much effort trying to differentiate the two. If you can lose whole cities to the sand, why not an army? It should be easy. I lived in the middle of the Mojave for 30 years and there were times when there were gale force winds for a week straight. You didn't go outside unless you absolutely had to. We divided it into windy, which meant the wind was trying to knock you down and breezy when it wasn't. It was windy for a week straight. They close the roads because the DOT people can't see the hoods of their trucks through the sand storm. There was one guy who said he saw jackrabbits flying through the air near Bakersfield. I believe it. They had 100 mph winds in the town of Mojave while I was there.

What is your name?

They probably ran into that one lost Roman legion and they proceeded to kill each other.

It was allways the weather

1:16 Wait a second -- didn't Cambyses live roughly 200 years _before_ Alexander? How could the oracle's tie to Alexander be a propaganda boon to Cambyses?

I thought Alex got his prophecy at Delphi... after roughing up the oracle. (The oracle was closed part of the year, and the kid wasn't having it.)

Now I wonder how often history was altered to make "pass the blame" to some one else.

@neilreynolds3858

2 ай бұрын

You mean like the nightly news?

👍

Didn’t they died in Am-Sher Oasis, killed by the green fellas?

Will siwa never know peace?

... ok but why is he throwing cats

@vorynrosethorn903

2 ай бұрын

Good luck.

1:17 yeah, I hated my real dad, too

Or maybe.... they were Isekaied.

First!!!

@andrewpritt8739

2 ай бұрын

Shut up

@Shtf132

2 ай бұрын

second!!

@wilsontheconqueror8101

2 ай бұрын

3rd!😊

@CrazyJaketheTerrible

2 ай бұрын

4th

@budakbaongsiah

2 ай бұрын

uhhhh, thirty-second?

50000 only!!😂😂😂😂 Come here in Assam, India where 1 lakh(100000) Cavalry force of Sultan Muhammad Shah in 1332 vanished in thin air while trying to annex Assam. This is said in Alamgiri Nama, a chronicle of first ten year his of Aurangzeb's reign, written by Mirza Muhammad Kazim. He writes "The whole army perished in the land of witchcraft and not a trace was left". Why "land of witchcraft". Bcoz it was thought to be the power of the deity Kamakhya Devi(chief deity in Assam) to which such happenings was attributed. This fear was there even in 1600s when Aurangzeb tried to annex Assam - many of his generals outright refused to join the campaign. It was Ram Singh Kachwaha who agreed to lead the expedition on the condition that Guru Tegh Bahadur be allowed to accompany him to ward off any evil. This is how Sikhism entered Assam. Though this didn't help in anything and the mughals faced their disastrous defeat at Saraighat and Ram Singh had to make a hasty retreat. This defeat was so complete that Mughals didn't look in the direction of Assam again and the land of Assam was remained free from the control of mlechhas till the arrival of british. Of course these things won't be talked about as they pertain to Indian history. The rule regarding Indian history and India in general is to not talk about anything except "caste, cow and curry".

@vorynrosethorn903

2 ай бұрын

The witch's took a liking to the British then, or did they just not send big enough armies for making them disappear to be impressive.

@sudipkumarroy3790

2 ай бұрын

​@@vorynrosethorn903It is not the witches. It was thought to be the power of the deity. Now who knows what the deity wants!! Even today pilgrims are barred from roaming around the temple premises and the entire hill - the temple is situated on hill called "Nilaparvata" or "blue mountain"- as supernatural beings are supposed to appear and carry out their sadhana to propotiate the deity - the deity is after all worshipped not only by humans but also others. The point of writing the comment is given in the last two lines. And btw this serves as a tight slap to all those islamists who mock hindus and call their gods impotent. These things are after all not said by the hindus but the mughals. Assamese chronicles as far as I know do not mention any such things.

@sudipkumarroy3790

2 ай бұрын

​@@vorynrosethorn903Btw another thing. Using black magic to win wars is not a recent concept it seems. Kautilya(3rd century bce) in his magnum opus Arthashastra advocates for such things and the entire Book 14 of his work devoted to such things. Whether later writers continued in the same line and whether any war were fought using such prescriptions in ancient India I don't know. But there are records of some Rajput clans(Rathores or Sisodias - not sure) resisting successfully Islamic invaders using such means. And then you have this legend. Now imagine trying to neutralise Kim Jong Un using black magic. No need to send any missile or start ww3. 😂😂 These things are of course not so simple. You may need the nails or hair of victim, then you have to select an auspicious time which must coincide with "vulnerable time" of the victim to decide which you need the victim's horoscope(now how do we get Kim Jong Un's horoscope?!😂). Then the one performing the ritual must be expert or it may backfire and kill the one who is doing the ritual. And most importantly you will have to face karmic repercussions. Like u can nuke or bomb any nation especially if u are US or Russia but that doesn't means their won't be any consequences.

@vorynrosethorn903

2 ай бұрын

@@sudipkumarroy3790 Being a Christian my approach to these things in the ancient one, demons are scary, magic is not, as we don't need to worry about what isn't real, though we should probably worry for the people engaging in them.