did you get ispired by fortnine last video? 😅

@macevert

3 ай бұрын

I think a video takes more time than that😂. But a nice coincidence

@ChaosCauses

3 ай бұрын

Lucky coincidence lol! Been working on it all week.

@Tonyx.yt.

3 ай бұрын

​@@macevert yeah could be a coincidence or he is just very fast at video making, probably the first one

@CyberChrist

3 ай бұрын

I'd say that's one of the most recurring subjets regarding riding ^^

@oscar_bru8455

3 ай бұрын

i don't think so because fortnine said that you allways countersteer and that "normal steering" does not exist

1:39 If you look closely you'll notice you countersteer even when doing 15 km/h. It's true at very low speeds certain forces are in equilibrium and you don't need to countersteer but the slower you go, the more unstable the motorcycle gets and personally I can't go slow enough.

@happycamperjack

3 ай бұрын

That’s what fortnine proved the other day. There no such thing as “low speed normal steering”. Everything is countersteer

@FlesHBoX

3 ай бұрын

Check out the veritasium video about it where they have a bicycle that can lock out steering to one side or the other. Even at very slow speed, not being able to counter steer resulted in people losing balancing and falling because their brains already instinctively counter steer.

@Sven_H

3 ай бұрын

Even at very low speeds you have to bring the center of gravity a little bit into the direction of the turn. If you don't, you would simply drop to the opposite side. That's all the whole counter-steering-discussion is about: moving the center of gravity of your Bike/Rider combination into the turn. At low speeds this movement is so subtle, most drivers (me included) would not recognize it, but it's there.

@frekstaner

3 ай бұрын

Yes!@@happycamperjack

Actually, countersteering works on all speeds. With a motorcycle, you can't think about steering without knowing how it interacts with lean angle and balance. That's why steering while riding is different from steering while pushing the bike around (because one is balanced by physics, and the other is balanced by you holding the bike) Let me demonstrate that a motorcycle will still try to balance, even when not moving. While stationary, straighten your handlebars, and lean the bike without touching them, you'll see that the front wheel will still steer in an attempt to balance the bike. The reason why that happens is due to bike geometry, specifically the fork trail. If the fork had no trail or negative trail, the bike won't self-balance. You can confirm that by pushing your bike backwards, it will quickly fall. But if you push it normally, it will self-balance, and will keep moving until it stops or crashes into something. The longer the trail of the bike, the more it will self-balance, and therefore be stable, but at the cost of maneuverability. That's the primary reason a cruiser bike with its long trail feels stable, and a sportbike with its shorter trail feels sensitive to turning Nothing changes at lower speeds that magically stops the self balancing. At lower speeds, you just need more steering angle for the same change in lean angle. At 15 kph in the video you did a very wide turn, and the bike in the footage was already leaning, that's why we didn't see the countersteering in action. You chose to do a tight turn at the higher speed, which is why it looks like the physics work differenly, but they actually don't. As I've already explained, steering and lean angle will slightly affect each other even when the bike is stationary, there's no magic speed where they aren't connected I learned this from a Russian youtube video, "почему мотоцикл не падает?" by Jet00CBR

@CyberChrist

3 ай бұрын

Indeed, I'd forgotten that ^^

This is something that absolutely blew my mind when I learned about it. My dad has been riding his whole life, and when I started he told me "push the handle bars the direction you want to go" to which I I said "your crazy, no way that works". I couldn't believe how responsive the bike was to the slightest amount of forward pressure on the handlebars. A month later I took the msf, and I was in shock that the instructors never covered counter steering or how it works. To me, it's one of the most important basic things a rider should know, because it completely takes any guess work out of the equation when it comes to cornering. I see so many videos of riders running off the road on corners because they panic and "target fixate", but IMO those riders didn't fully understand countersteering because if they did they could have saved themselves (if they weren't going too fast of course).

@tbqhwyf

3 ай бұрын

If you came ot msf, then you can already ride a bicycle. If you can ride a bicycle, your body knows how to countersteer a motorcycle, no explanation needed

@spartanx169x

3 ай бұрын

the MSF course doesn't cover it because it will only confuse people. I learned to ride a motorcycle just like bicycle and was fine for 30 + years of riding.

@mark675

3 ай бұрын

It's amazing, how many people don't know about countersteering, even the ones that have been riding for 30+ years 😂

@spartanx169x

3 ай бұрын

@@mark675 You don't need to understand or know a certain term to be able to ride a motorcycle. If you can ride a bicycle you can ride a motorcycle. Its that simple, because the physics are the same. If you have to think about steering a bike you should not be on one.

@spartanx169x

3 ай бұрын

@@tbqhwyf EXACTLY and any explanation will only cause confusion and fear.

counter steering applies at speed above 0 mph, on a stand still just turn your handle bar, notice how the bike wants to lean :D even on a stand still its counter steering :D Magic

Very cool. I use countersteering all the time and has saved me in some troubling situations. Good job. The gyro effect. 😎👍

What a fantastic video. Some solid talking points.

This was the first day topic at legally required riders safety course in my state, for 21 and under, in 1998. Most useful tip for a first time rider.

love your skill,fitness,smartness and passion for riding..you teach us so effectively that i become now an expert ,yet improving though your videos thank you handsome ,young man blessed you are to be so nice to riders like us

Awesome video. Overthinking it is something that I struggle with. When I think about doing it, for some reason I can't.

@divyansh7264

2 ай бұрын

they shoudln't have made these videos i am getting ocd

@countryjoe3551

Ай бұрын

@@divyansh7264 LOL!!

Well, another great video! Thank you man! After all it comes to a combination of both push and pull, but only after some time spent on the saddle. A lot of people do not think about it,because they do it without knowing. Hope things do not get messy after you ask them to think about it. Me personally prefer to push and drop the weight at the side I want to go. Easy as you just described it. For going out of the corner use the opposite. Get well we need you on the bike again!

Hey, I really enjoy your videos and I wonder if you could do a video about going camping on a super sport like for example on a cbr or a zx 10

Thanks for this video! What a coincident, you cover the same topic as fortnine in the same week. They should coordinate better with your content scedule. I push most of the time, but always push and pull like on a giant steering wheel of a chool bus or so, if I have to do a tight turn, a combination (left/right or right/left) turn. keep up the good work! Your videos are very entertaining, are easy to understand when not fully awake in the morning and visually very pleasing.

Perfect timing while I’m painting my wheels so I’m not bored

oh how i'm waiting for the summer!

Thats actually good content 😊

countersteering: inertia & the difference of mass between the wheel & the rest of the motorcycle. the effect is present from whatever speed > 0, it is just noticeable at higher speeds.

Nice video!! In my opinion the way to do it is to push and pull at the same time. It is like to take a steering wheel just with one hand. Taking control with two hands is always better

Gonna try this, wish me the best of luck

Counter steering had save my life a lot

fortnine and chaos causes make video on same topic on same time.! is a deadline approaching on the world to learn counter steering.?

Push or pull depends on motorcycle. On my previous sportbikes, with the short wheelbase and rake angle, pushing felt more effective, now on my current bike (naked muscle bike, similar to a cruiser but taller) with a long wheelbase and rake angle pushing takes a lot more effort than pulling. Ideally you want to actually do a bit of both, smaller forces on each hand makes control a lot finer than putting all of the steering force on a single hand, and you also want to be more dynamic with your steering method if you're using handlebar controls like the clutch and brake, it's better to be able to balance the forces since pulling the brake lever may introduce a slight turn of the handlebars if you don't counteract the force on the other side.

Great video! I push to countersteer.

I was thinking whole year if I am doing right by pushing/pulling handlebar while riding to turn 😄 Now I will know, thanks!

I rode bikes for 30+ years and until I started watching KZread I would not consider normal steering to be counter steering. Physics wise of course that is what it is. But I never considered it as such. I think for new riders it can be very confusing and calling it countersteering will mess people up until they get some experience. I always tell anybody, if you can ride a bicycle, you can ride a motorcycle. In my head, countersteering is what they do on dirt track ovals. If Somebody had tried to explain it to me when I first started riding I would have struggled in riding.

@FlesHBoX

3 ай бұрын

This is 100% true. I rode bicycles constantly as a kid. Nobody ever had to teach me how to counter steer. Every 5 year old that hops on a bicycle for the first time learns to counter steer instinctively. It takes very little time for your body to learn this, after all, our bodies have managed to master gravity and balance and proprioception a very long time ago. Trying to "teach" someone something that their body already knows instinctively only serves to make things harder and hurt the new rider's self confidence when you start trying to force your body to do the opposite of what you THINK it wants to do, but it is in fact already trying to do what you didn't even know was a thing yesterday.

@benfennell6842

3 ай бұрын

I need to know who these people are who are struggling with the concept Like as soon as I heard about this when I was 13 I jumped on my bicycle, tried it, and it worked. The physics were obvious, of course making the bike fall over lets me turn that way. Who is seriously struggling with this concept???

@Momfasa

2 ай бұрын

To be honest, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Bicycle and motorcycles are two completely different things to master.

Excellent explanation, easy and self-explanatory. Greetings from Chile, Latin America

funny, the video still shows counter steering occurring even at very low speed, because it happens at any speed :D

Wait, do you guys have UK style powerpoints?

Fort 9, Moto jitsu, now you are making a counter steering video 😂

1:31 my friend even at low speed you initiated turn by countersteering but its not so visible because it was very subtle. Its visible when played at 0,25 speed. You just did not realized it.

I’ve been riding since 2010, I don’t know how to explain what I do while riding because I just do it without thinking about it 😂

marc is insane 🤣

Looks like fortnine and he's been secretly meeting to plan a same video Anyways Nice work man❤

Chaos cleans exhaust. Revzilla cleans exhaust. Fortnine countersteers. Chaos countersteers.

nice video

in racing is countersteering only used to intiate turn in or through the whole corner, because when i see rider tucking the front the wheel turns into the corner so it just confusing me

I think only pushing or pulling is enough for going through a corner, a combination and pushing while pulling is only neccesary when you are in hairpins at high speed and you are already to one side and need transitioning or in the case of swirving.....

I can't get my head around this. I see it on the screen and I'm still confused! This isn't the first video I've seen on this subject, I've seen loads. I've been riding for over 30 years on and I've had more than a few track days. I deliberately paused this video and went for a ride in a large local car park. I couldn't really go over about 30mph as the car park wasn't big enough. My turns are tight, precise and exactly what I intended to do, but at no time am I counter steering, so either I'm doing it subconsciously and I can't see it or I'm not doing it at all. I've also noticed that this subject hasn't been around for that long, so how come it's only in the last few years at most that it has been talked about, why not 30 years ago when I started riding?

why watching your videos make me feel relaxing

Well, whether countersteering works at lower speeds is a bit of a contentious issue, these days, I'm of the opinion it does.

@ChaosCauses

3 ай бұрын

Depends on your idea of low speed. Hence why I used the pushing it around example as well

@CyberChrist

3 ай бұрын

@@ChaosCauses From my own impressions, as demonstrated by MotoJitsu's "Does COUNTER STEERING Work At 5 MPH?" video, countersteering works as long as the bike goes fast enough to self-balance, which isn't the case when pushing it, of course ;) But I'll agree that low speed bike physics are obscure, and admit low speeds are, by far, my greatest riding weakness. Unfortunately, I lack time to practice even light rear brake/hard lean/full handlebar lock/slipping clutch U-turns, which is a skill I'd really like to develop :( On a side note, I'd also like to know the best reaction course when the front gets forced in a rut, as often happens in cities with tramway tracks parallel to the streets. It never happened to me, but I suppose it'd end badly, and I also suppose you got that experience relatively often off-road, or know someone who knows ;)

@tbqhwyf

3 ай бұрын

​@@CyberChristin the video, 9 mph is mentioned as a low speed where countersteering doesn't work. As F9 has demonstrated, though, countersteering still works at that speed

@CyberChrist

3 ай бұрын

@@tbqhwyf MotoJitsu did one better at 5 mph, so I guess a redemption arc is in order ^^

@benfennell6842

3 ай бұрын

Countersteering is the only steering there is on a bike "normal steering" is a myth your brain created. You are countersteering any time you ride a bike. Try riding as slow as possible and you'll notice you always turn towards where the bike is falling, not to turn but to stay upright. This, even at 1 mph, you ARE countersteering.

countersteering clicked for me when I was doing fig 8 drill... when it clicks it just flows

well idk if i push or pull will report as soon as i fixed my bike xD

Does not work on all bikes. My first 2 bikes were off-roads, so sliding is riding. With my first 650, I heard about conciously countersteering for the first time from a CBR rider, so I had to try it. Nearly rolled the sucker... My 250 likes countersteer. My 650 V-twin does not at all. Goes where the steering points. Immediately. Maybe to do with centre of gravity and/or steering rake?

@benfennell6842

3 ай бұрын

It's so crazy to me how people can be do certain about things that are just objectively wrong... Not to be rude or anything, its just that there's a wealth of information on the subject of bicycle dynamics, all bikes countersteer as their only method of steering at all speeds >0

@kapteinsuperskoot6986

3 ай бұрын

Whatver, dude. Just describing my experience with my bike, not going against the science. Best of luck to you.

"To lean the back back up, just do the same thing in reverse." What the heck are you on about? That bike doesn't *have* reverse! 😋

Push left. Got left. Push right. Go right.

I push AND pull!!! Which equals "Balance" on both sides of the bars!!! ; >)

It's not about the speed! In the first clip, the reason that "direct steering" worked had nothing to do with the speed, the only reason it worked was because you were walking with the bike, holding it up. Any time you're on two wheels only (instead of two wheels plus two feet) you need counter steering to go where you want to go. If you watch your video very carefully, even at low speeds (at 1:35 in the video) you'll see the handlebars turn right for a brief fraction of a second before turning left. With the feet on the pegs, there isn't any other way.

how i remember it is push forward (not down) where you want to go

Can you do a video on knee dragging? I cant seem to get it right..

@CyberChrist

3 ай бұрын

It's a byproduct of going fast, not an objective to have ;) As long as you get out of your seat and are seamless enough, it'll come naturally.

@Stevo299

3 ай бұрын

👆 what he said. It won't happen when you try to do it. When you go fast enough and not worry about getting it right, then it will happen. Once you've done it, it will feel like one of the easiest things in the world. It's weird but that's how it works.

even in the slow version you are still couter steering. There is a slight turn to right.

Turning with motorcycle is just falling on your side, without actually falling over.

The only time counter steering crosses my mind is when riding with one hand

I push on Mondays and Wednesdays I pull on Tuesdays and Thursdays Iykyk

But isn’t that still going left when you pressing left to go left, it doesnt mean your going right at all don’t get why they explain it like that more people probably crash from the way it’s explained, you still turn ur handlebars left more than right anyway even if it doesn’t look it your leaning into it your so your going left ur not going right at all even if you lean vs press it yes your going your going to turn easier if your pressing but that still doesn’t mean your going right or the opposite way ur still pressing down left to go left like bruh

I do about 50/50

Do I push or pull. A bit personal. But both.. I think.

If you really are in tune with your bike and aware enough you push/pull at the same time. That allows you to make very fine adjustments while you’re going through a corner. Set your body position up, lean into the corner, push to initiate the turn then throughout the corner weighting the inside or outside peg along with push/pulling on the bars gives you the most control. Think of it like pulling a rifle into your shoulder. You pull with your right hand backwards and slightly pull forwards with your left hand. This creates a much more stable platform. Same thing applies to your handlebars.

Another video describing the only possible way motorcyles steer at anything above parking lot speeds. Whether you know it or not.

Im a “little of both person” depending on the scenario

didn't even know i was doing it 🙃

hi

0:23 Bad demo. When you push a bike, you're technically a tricycle and tricycles steer differently. There is no slow speed, fast speed steering. If you move 0 mph or faster, you countersteer.

Rider

Looking at you video 1:55 it looks like your wheels are not properly aligned. May be just a trick of perspective... but may be worth checking...

Noop, you ALWAYS do countersteering regardless of speed to initiate a turn.

countersteering is easy until you think about it.then everything goes to shit.

wow i'm early XD

I think we put way too much emphasis and importance on counter steering. Just like you (and Ryan recently) pointed out, anyone who has ridden a bike already knows how to do it and does it instinctively without even knowing. It's a skill we all need, but don't need to be taught. In fact, trying to wrap my head around counter steering only hurt my self confidence when I first hopped on a motorcycle, because it turned something autonomous into something manual (like how you can make people manually breath, it just turns something you're an expert at into something clumsy and less effective). Rather than just allowing your body to do what it already knows to do, we make it into something you now have to think about and focus on. The best way to teach a new rider how to counter steer is not to. If they've never ridden a bicycle, put them on one for an afternoon (it's a vastly safer environment to learn fundamental skills that translate directly to a motorcycle). By the time they have ridden a bicycle for a little bit, they will already know instinctively how to steer a motorcycle. If they already know how to ride a bicycle, then they already know how to steer a motorcycle.

@benfennell6842

3 ай бұрын

If you can't grasp the concept of turning the bars you might need to try a bit harder...

@deanmsimpson

3 ай бұрын

@FlesHBoX I disagree. Consciously counter steering is a game changer.

@benfennell6842

3 ай бұрын

@@deanmsimpson I think if all motorcyclists steered consciously it would cut down target fixation crashes by like literally 50%

never used it, never needed it...

@XtreeM_FaiL

2 ай бұрын

You will if you ever try a bike.

@dennis.lc8407

2 ай бұрын

@@XtreeM_FaiL you can‘t read can you?😂

@XtreeM_FaiL

2 ай бұрын

@@dennis.lc8407 If you think I can't, why you ask?

It’s absolutely complicated. There’s just some things we don’t have to understand to fully to acknowledge and put to use. In other words, it’s complicated, but there’s no need to complicate it…unless you want to… in which case prepare for a headache but kudos to you

Non make sense

Yknow what makes counter steering confusing? People saying counter steering is confusing.

@XtreeM_FaiL

2 ай бұрын

And people like in the video who don't understand countersteering and still try to teach others.

KZreadrs really are getting dangerous with what they tell people. There’s a huge error in this video.. did no one spot it…? 🤷🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

@sanchitjaiswal2979

Ай бұрын

What is the error?

Now explain gyroscopic forces and precession, because that’s why the bike leans

The term countersteering is absolute bullshit.

Guess who's been watching some Fortnine... 😂😂👍👍

No, you countersteer at any speed. The bike must lean to turn or else it will fall, at any speed. You are not direct steering at those low speeds, you just think you are. You are counter steering it first into a slight lean and then the handlebars turn