Hey everyone. Technically two videos today. I'm launching a new channel that talks about media and pointless things. Our interests I think are similar so you may like it. Such as say Deadliest Warrior. A show that took two historical warriors and slammed them into each other. Check it out if you want. kzread.info/dash/bejne/i4qmyNmshrGtaKw.html

@sumitmegadrive

2 жыл бұрын

Did you know John Tyler’s grandson is still alive

@christopherhoffer6643

2 жыл бұрын

What if the Spanish-American War never happened?

@johnlocke5728

2 жыл бұрын

I miss Hawaii

@matsal3211

2 жыл бұрын

What If ron paul became president either in 2008 or 2011

@TheLadyBlerd

2 жыл бұрын

Just watched the Deadliest Warrior love letter to pop history comment - hit right in the feels 🖤👍🏿

The Hawaiian flag history was the most surprising part for me, honestly. I didn't expect that the king simply liked the Britain flag and said "why not?"

@lucascaetano7920

2 жыл бұрын

If I'm not mistaken it was also meant to be a combined american and british flags, since they were they're main trading partners. Basically, it was saying they liked them both equally

@lucascaetano7920

2 жыл бұрын

Though I'm not an expert, so don't quote me on this

@sakataginko9092

2 жыл бұрын

@@lucascaetano7920 I guess this was a later interpretation they made to justify it

@androzani

2 жыл бұрын

For the most part, the flag was supposed to be a neutral and trade friendly symbol to the British, Russians, and Americans. Hence why it looks like three flags are shoved into it.

@____Carnage____

2 жыл бұрын

@@lucascaetano7920 You’re right, the US was our main trading partner at the time since Hawaii was producing a lot of sugar cane and Pineapples and the US just ate it up. Literally

The elephant in the room here is that Japan would find Hawai'i a highly desirable naval base, either in WWI or WWII. Imperialism had touched nearly every single corner of the Pacific, only Japan and Siam were fully independent. Even the German Empire was desperate for any slice of the colonial pie that was left.

@jeffreydudgeon4579

2 жыл бұрын

That really is the elephant, which I don't completely believe the British wouldn't have annexed Hawaii at some point either. Because at the end of the day, some imperial power was going to look at Pearl Harbor, a sheltered deep-water harbor right smack in the middle of the vast Pacific Ocean, and claim it for their own. Hell, America wasn't even all the keen on annexation.....until the Spanish American War, and they needed a coaling location on the way to their new territories like the Philipinnes.

@Spongebrain97

2 жыл бұрын

Not to mention the large Japanese Hawaiian presence on the islands an alternate history could see imperial Japan using the same claims the Germans made of reuniting ethnic Germans in the Czech Republic, Japanese people with the homeland and conquer the islands

@robertortiz-wilson1588

2 жыл бұрын

My thoughts as well.

@roberteischen4170

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. I was thinking Japan would Eff the island nation up like, so bad. Did you see what they did to all the other territories they occupied?

@ProfTricky3168

2 жыл бұрын

Does relate to the topic but there’s a German March talking about Honolulu.

A minor point toward the end that I would like to disagree with is the status of the Hawaiian language. Despite the decades of influence from American-descended plantation owners and other businessmen, the Hawaiian language was very much the lingua franca of the country, and many of these Hawaiian-born white businessmen were fluent speakers (and even ran several Hawaiian language newspapers). It was only during the US occupation that the language was discouraged.

@cruzgomes5660

2 жыл бұрын

What would you say is the best way to learn it today?

@alexandermuto467

2 жыл бұрын

I would actually argue that Pidgin (Creole hawaiian)was more the dominant language after english not hawaiian. Even today most people can speak and understand pidgin in hawaii but not hawaiian. Pidgin became a dominant language in hawaii as the different migrant worker camps, Literally separated by race, needed a common language to communicate. Pidgin developed as a hybrid language encompassing words and vocabulary from hawaiian, Japanies, english, chinese, tagalo, and much more. Even today if you go to the supermarket and ask for “tako poke” tako is Japanese for octopus and poke is hawaiian for a style of raw preparation usually involving ahi (hawaiian for tuna).

@alexandermuto467

2 жыл бұрын

@@cruzgomes5660 honestly go to a hawaiian emergence school as a kid, join a hula club, or find an uncle to talk story with.

@gamermapper

2 жыл бұрын

Americans are so hypocritical... Requesting Tibet or Xinjiang to be independent but not Hawaii... Hawaii annexation is illegal, hopefully one day Hawaii will be free again...

@jeffbenton6183

2 жыл бұрын

​@@gamermapper But most of the people who live their aren't ethnically Hawaiian. How would an independent Hawaii even work? Why would a majority of people who live there want to be independent? It would be just like the State of Hawaii, only independent - it wouldn't really have the independent cultural identity it had before annexation - it would remain the mix of American, Polynesian, Japanese and other cultures that it is today, except the economy would tank. Most of Tibet, on the other hand, is 80% ethnically Tibet. It would be culturally Tibetan. There wouldn't be so much confusion about what it really means to be Tibetan. It's also not like the US government is squashing dissident in Hawaii. The reason why the PRC's activities in Tibet draw so much condemnation is because their inherently condemnable. Though the US annexation was wrong, there's really nothing that can be done about it more than 100 years in the future.

Fun Fact: In 1843, King Leopold I of Belgium tried to colonize Hawaii. This wasn't in the video. Leopold I was the father of Leopold II, the monster that had millions of people killed in Congo, the lands that DID become a Belgian colony. The Hawaiins dodged a bullet there.

@TommyElijahCabelloReal

Жыл бұрын

Bro that's not a bullet, that's a whole Panzer tank shell

@mreraser2968

Жыл бұрын

Lucky Hawaiians.

@xxxBradTxxx

9 ай бұрын

Belgian colonization was not as good as British or Dutch colonialism

@thetangaledbug7670

6 ай бұрын

Belgium was just brutal and cruel in their colonialism, Hawaii would've been reduced to a third world junk hole like Haiti or something. Ultimately, what Americans did was a saving grace for the islands..

@socialistrepublicofvietnam1500

5 ай бұрын

That isn't a bullet, that is the full thermonuclear bomb

Really glad you covered this though. As a native Hawaiian, with my family living here for a lonnnnggg time, it's really appreciated.

@AndrewMellor-darkphoton

2 жыл бұрын

hi

@alw2839

2 жыл бұрын

@@madrexertheboredtm7728 Polynesians be like: Mr Worldwide!

@MrGreghome

2 жыл бұрын

@@madrexertheboredtm7728 they arrived by boat last summer.

@therealspeedwagon1451

2 жыл бұрын

I have a question for you; do you like tourists? Because I rarely see them but even I don’t like them. Sure they could be a great cash cow you can milk the life out of with “Hawaiian” stuff but still, I’ve heard a lot of native Hawaiians hate tourists.

@estoniaisunderrated5120

2 жыл бұрын

I’m getting stationed in Hawaii soon. I’m curious are native Hawaiians glad to be apart of the USA or do you think they’d prefer to be independent?

If Hawaii wasn't annexed by the USA, then Spongebob wouldn't be the same without Hawaiian music.

@coleomantenforty8747

2 жыл бұрын

Truly, the darkest timeline. George Orwell has nothing on that.

@Oldskoolguitar

2 жыл бұрын

Damn, good point.

@blob7963

2 жыл бұрын

and the sky would just be blue

@sacz20isstill21

2 жыл бұрын

Spongebob would be different too.

@michaelsayavong2656

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe Spongebob in that timeline, the show uses Caribbean music instead? Without the U.S annexing Hawaii, the most tropical places in America would be in the Caribbean.

Correction: Polk didn’t just “sometimes” call for war against Britain. His 1844 campaign slogan was literally “Fifty-four Forty or Fight.” As in, the northern border between Oregon and Canada was to be at 54°40’N or we would invade Canada.

"The Top Gear flag" Alright boys, pack it up, we've just found all the gold we could ever need

It seems like this is a pretty recurring theme throughout colonial history. The moment of takeover happens long before the colony or territory is officially absorbed. For so many places, once a powerful empire discovered something like rubber or sugar or oil, there really wasn't anything they could do.

@cdcdrr

2 жыл бұрын

Ironically, not even white colonists were safe from this. When they discovered gold in the Transvaal, the Boer settlers' asses clenched up so tightly in fear, it was probably the event that created the diamond mining industry as well, as you could crush coal into diamond from it.

@wisdomleader85

2 жыл бұрын

You can change history, but you won't change human nature.

@mint8648

2 жыл бұрын

Japan will take hawaii

@christiandauz3742

2 жыл бұрын

Nothing short of time-travel and very early Industrialization would save Hawaii

@user-vi4xy1jw7e

2 жыл бұрын

@@AxxLAfriku wut

Paulet thinkin' be like: They have Union Jack on the flag, must be some kind of british haters

@themaskedperu-man5547

2 жыл бұрын

@@openpage8891 No, I won't Buy your Scam, Scammer

@pashauzan

2 жыл бұрын

@@openpage8891 I got a stroke reading that

@Orinslayer

2 жыл бұрын

Paulet be like "The risk I took was calculated, but boy am I bad at math."

The ending was a nice touch, giving hope. It makes me glad to see the Hawaiian identity and language coming back to prominence as of late

@juliusnepos6013

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah

@mgread51

2 жыл бұрын

> when the majority of people who push for it are only like 10% Hawaiian and don't even speak it. Lol ok buddy

@thetangaledbug7670

6 ай бұрын

​@@mgread51what are you even saying??

The “a’ole” killed me. I have a Hawaiian sister-in-law, after spending a good amount of time around her we picked up the habit of saying it instead of the standard “knock it the fuck off!” when our kids (or dog) got on our last nerve. It works.

Considering both the US and Great Britain almost went to war over a pig, I can see a war breaking out over Hawaii (or maybe the Sandwich Islands or whatever they’re called in this timeline).

@cannonfodder9248

2 жыл бұрын

🥪

@mint8648

2 жыл бұрын

Japan

@lordmeow

2 жыл бұрын

Wait, a pig?

@16ktsgamma

2 жыл бұрын

Makes sense to me.

@thecommisarsballad7261

2 жыл бұрын

@@lordmeow en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War_(1859)

The story behind the Hawaiian flag: During the War of 1812, Hawaii wished to remain neutral as the US and UK were its two biggest trading partners so Kamehameha wished for a flag to share aspects of the US and UK flags. The Union Jack part of the flag represents the island’s historical friendship with the UK while the stripes represent the island’s historical friendship with America.

@rimfire8217

Жыл бұрын

Huh. wow. To me thats kinda sad to be honest. Because Hawaii Modeled itself after what other people wanted.

@etops8086

Жыл бұрын

That is wholly untrue. The stripes on the flag were originally sequenced white-red-blue and are believed to be modeled after the Russian flag used over the Port of Lahaina in the early 1810s. It was the only flag they had, receiving it from an abandoned Russian colony. Later a British captain that had sold Hawaii its first modern warship offered their ensign to fly over the port in lieu of the Russian one. It is widely accepted that King Kamehameha saw aesthetic value in the flags and designed the Kingdom of Hawaii's flag after them. This may also have been in part driven by the Hawaiian monarchy's Europhilia at the time. The navy ensign of the Kingdom of Hawaii still retained the white-red-blue patterning and the official kingdom flag was standardized to red-white-blue in 1843. Hawaii played no role in the War of 1812, though infrequent Hawaiians served in the navies of both sides. The Kingdom didn't really have an opinion on any major US conflict until the Civil War, where it pretty wholly supported the Union.

@juliangenilla2428

Жыл бұрын

False

@williamevans4894

Жыл бұрын

The war between the United Kingdom and the USA was between two countries

I always enjoy the historical context you give for these scenarios. Half the video is explaining what the politics and world views were at the time. Makes a great video

Thank you so much! I'm a big fan of your channel and just started doing research about my own culture as well. This is more well timed than I ever needed.

In all honesty, I think that an 1812-style war like the one described here as probably resulting in British control of Oregon puts a major roadblock in any future ideas of manifest destiny- both in the fact that American pursuit of manifest destiny would have resulted in a humiliating and unpopular war, and in that any future attempt against Mexico would be seen in sectional terms. We often forget that Polk was successful because he was able to articulate a version of manifest destiny that expanded US territory on both sides of the Missouri compromise. Loss of Oregon would make Texas annexation (already a contentious issue) even more controversial with no free soil to balance it out, and indeed, the British might make a guarantee of Texan independence part of the treaty. I could probably see California rebelling against Mexico and becoming an independent, British-aligned republic. I'm more uncertain as to the future of New Mexico, but they tried for independence in 1837 and could very well try again. In any case, the Northwest would be part of Canada, and the Southwest, whether split between Texas and Mexico or a region of several independent republics (I could definitely see the Mormons trying for independence in this timeline, as I think they probably would have still gone to Salt Lake) wouldn't be American either. Now, I think the opening of Japan was inevitable, and I think a fairly recognizable Meiji restoration could probably happen. This has some interesting implications for a world like this, in that America is much less of a concern and Britain is much more of one. How this would proceed I can't really say. But I do think that if Hawai'i is independent, Japan may be a little more emboldened in confronting the local government, especially over the mistreatment of their citizens. And of course, imperial ambitions could easily come into play here. At the very least, they'll probably want a naval base. The fate of Alaska is really up in the air here. The British didn't want it (they left it well alone during the Crimean War, though they were at war with Russia and could have easily taken it). If Russo-Japanese relations unfold as in our timeline, I could see it becoming Japanese, but I think a different geopolitical situation could easily butterfly the Russo-Japanese war. In that case, does Russia keep it? Does it become independent? I really don't know.

@HeavyMetalorRockfan9

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think the Japanese would have taken Alaska, maybe the Aleut Islands and one or two ports but thats it. They couldnt take too much in the Russo-Japanese war because the European Imperial powers would've attacked them in response. Japan would certainly take Hawaii, and I could see them creating rubber plantations there as well. Taiwan would also be more aggressively populated, and they would eventually take the Phillippines. Their expansion into mainland asia would be more restrained, and they would have access to all the resources they didnt have on the main islands in this scenario, since there is no America competing for influence in the region, while the European powers were rather disengaged. The British would not pay enough attention to the Pacific to stop this, so unless the Pacific coast/and a bit inland were to actively compete for influence in the oceans, I don't see it turning out any other way.

@compatriot852

2 жыл бұрын

Idk why that was put in. By 1840s, America had a booming military similar to Prussia and would have easily crushed any British presence. That's like saying Napoleon III would have burned down Berlin. Almost impossible But a whole war in itself would have been extremely unlikely and probably would have been a simple apology

@romanfan250

2 жыл бұрын

Something tells me Santa Anna would lose... Somehow, against Deseret in 1857. Something so stupid it makes his literal 'loss by DUI' look like a pultizer prize.

@redkraken6516

2 жыл бұрын

@@compatriot852 the problem is, unlike 1812 British can mobelize all they resourses against USA, so even if 'merica successful in the begining, when british navy comes to east shore it's over.

@jonnunn4196

2 жыл бұрын

As I see it, a US - UK war right then, would probably immediately prompt Santa Ana to attack the then Independent Republic of Texas. This causes a two front war, but the most likely result is Mexico still loses even though Canada now gets all the disputed territory between Maine and Nova Scotia and possibly Oregon Territory.

Judging by your analysis of what Hawaii would be like in this alternate timeline... It reminds me a lot of the Northern Mariana Islands. Natives barely exist there, mainly made of an upper class of foreigners... Still a beautiful place, but mainly an economic area with tons of unemployment and tourist trap for foreigners. Lived in the NMI and this version of Hawaii wouldn't be all that different from that at all. Consider looking into more into the NMI sometime by the way -- Fascinating stuff. Would disagree on the idea of them becoming a state ever though -- The citizens of the NMI would never vote for it for a fascinating variety of reasons, assuming it is a vote, anyway.

@redcoat4348

2 жыл бұрын

This all sounds pretty interesting. Why wouldn't they vote for statehood?

@thereareantsbehindyoureyes7529

2 жыл бұрын

@@redcoat4348 idk about their politics but they are just north of papua new guinea and east of indonesia so the distance may play a role

@jonnunn4196

2 жыл бұрын

To become a territory ... no vote. To become a state, yes, a territory has to vote to become a state- congress can still decline to make it one.

@kimarna

2 жыл бұрын

Makes us think of Easter Island, Spanish colonialism and Catholicism destroyed the entire culture and language, all gone :

@ThatOneEnder

2 жыл бұрын

@@redcoat4348 The tl;dr of it is because taxes and other issues that would arise from being a state, like various federal regulations. It's complicated as hell. The reasons why they wouldn't differ from person to person. They also don't want to become a terrority somewhat because of mostly the same reasons, as commonwealths are pretty much essentially getting all the benefits of being "American" but none of the regulations. My dad, who worked with a lot of the higher ups in its biggest industry (gambling, of course, since there is quite a lot of Chinese tourists) mentioned before that it felt like the whole place was like a libertarian pipedream -- with all the issues of libertarianism too. The whole place is pretty much controlled by the casino -- or at least was until the FBI realized something was up, after a solid 5-10 years of the con... Christ, and I haven't even mentioned that after the 2019 typhon Yutu hit (I personally went through it! It sucked!), it went on an economic downward spiral, which then right after the pandemic hit and from what I have heard it has gone even further downhill. It's not in a good place right now and yet they *probably* still wouldn't statehood because of various regulations. Not sure though at this point, it has been 2 years since I've been there and since then things have changed a lot most likely. (take all this with a grain of salt, mind you, as this is pretty much friend of a friend told me things here with most of which barely is in any news site. It's hard to track down any sources other than just going there directly and finding out all of it for yourself unfortunately. would love some major org to really cover it or some documentary, insane stuff

Hawaii would probably still be a popular tourist spot for post war japanese. Koreans too. And I'm sure it would still have some tourism from America, despite not being a state

@namless3654

2 жыл бұрын

Also it wouldn't surprise me if japan colonized it pre war war 2

@alanpennie

9 ай бұрын

Probably still quite a lot of US tourism. But visa and currency problems would limit it.

@jodij2366

2 ай бұрын

Depending on how the relationship with the British evolved, perhaps popular with Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders as well.

Warning: long nerd paragraph no one asked for I think something really interesting would be if King Kalakaua was never stripped of his power and his plans for Hawaii were lived out. This scenario is basically impossible but it still presents such an interesting alternate timeline. Kalakaua was extremely flawed but he definitely had some interesting thoughts on how to preserve the kingdom’s future. He traveled the world introducing Hawaii to monarchs and emperors in an attempt to increase Hawaii’s visibility. For example, he was the first ever person to be honored with a state dinner at the White House, the first monarch to circumnavigate the world, and he made many alliances and negotiated many trade deals on his trip. It seemed like he wanted to make Hawaii not only known around the world but respected as a kingdom. Going off of that respect aspect, he tried to modernize Hawaii or at least bring it to a state that mirrored the West. He had Honolulu powered by hydroelectricity before much of the world had even switched to electric lighting and had personally met with Alexander Graham Bell and Thomas Edison to discuss (and adopt) their claimed inventions. Kalakaua’s most interesting policy in my opinion was that he encouraged immigration by negotiating with many nations like Portugal and Japan to import workers and families. His idea was that the native population was dying off and that if he brought in more people there’d be a chance that some aspect of Hawaiian culture, no matter how muddled, would live on through these transplants. I always found that so interesting. Kalakaua is known nowadays as the man who reinvigorated Hawaiian culture and it’s interesting to me how his love ran so deep that he was willing to sacrifice a homogenous Hawaii just for the chance that his beloved culture would survive. He did some other interesting things as well like how he sent Hawaiian children to European colleges, opened embassies in many countries, and even tried to form a Pacific confederation with the few remaining independent island nations. Another thing I found interesting was his relationship with Japan. He was able to negotiate the immigration of Japanese laborers even in an era where Japan refused to send their citizens abroad. He met with the emperor personally on at least two occasions, tried to negotiate an annexation (of some sort) of Hawaii, and he even tried to marry off his niece to the Japanese royal family. He knew that Hawaii wouldn’t survive independently without the support of a major Pacific player and it’s interesting to me that he chose Japan over Britain and the US. Their relationship is reflected in that Japan was one of the nations that dispatched their navy during the overthrow (before they of course backed out and recognized the new republic.) Who knows, maybe Hawaii would’ve allied with Japan during WWII had it been given the time to build a stronger relationship. Obviously this whole scenario is incredibly unlikely and literally so much would have to change to accommodate it but nonetheless it’s such an interesting alternate timeline if your suspension of disbelief can hit the international space station. Btw I’m not his historian or an expert please be nice to me I’m just gushing about something I find interesting. 🙏

@daeseongkim93

2 жыл бұрын

This is a wholly realistic scenario if Kalakaua had more time on the throne. I read his autobiography on his world tour and basically captures this brilliant picture you painted. If you ever have the chance to visit Iolani Palace, you could see that he cultivated relationships and recognition of the Kingdom of Hawaii with almost two dozen European, Latin American, Asian independent kingdoms and empires - you'll see the treaties, the honors and decorations, medals, and documents from these various emperors and kings of the time. If imperialism had not existed at the time, the Pacific Nations Alliance would have been incredible - too bad Tonga and Samoa were mired up by British and German influence. And the relationship with Japan would have occurred, I feel like Hawaii would have been given the choice of neutrality in WWII if it was never annexed by the U.S. but would still choose to join the Axis as a supporting nation of Japan like Thailand had done, out of mutual respect.

@deoccupyhawaii6268

2 жыл бұрын

Did you know Hawaii has actually been illegally occupied for 129 years?

If Hawaii wasn’t annexed by the USA, I could imagine a sort of major battle for it happening on Hawaii with Japan and USA during WWII because Japan would totally want to annex Hawaii to use it as a major airforce and naval base and probably conduct an invasion force for Alaska or even California.

@taptiotrevizo9415

2 жыл бұрын

Umm I think the distance between Hawaii and Alaska and California says otherwise

@KangaKucha

2 жыл бұрын

They did bomb Alaska in the war anyway. In my Alternative World History though, Alaska is Canadian should it might not be as affected. Yet your right that Japan would have attacked the west coast of the USA. Likley by an attack like Pearl Habour, not an invasion.

@shubhamphadke4724

2 жыл бұрын

I think japan would have used hawaii as a strike base against the US

@KangaKucha

2 жыл бұрын

@@taptiotrevizo9415 I'm afraid it doesn't matter if Japan has a base in Hawaii to launch an attack. An invasion is unlikely though but something like Pearl Habour would occur on the USA West Coast instead.

@taptiotrevizo9415

2 жыл бұрын

@@KangaKucha I don't think the usa would get even involved against Japan since If Hawaii isn't a US territory then the Philippines definitely aren't and are probably a territory of Japan

It would be interesting to see how the government and culture of an independent Hawaii would turn out Edit: My general prediction is that things like the Bayonet Constitution would still eventually happen. It would become an apartheid republic eventually likely falling under British influence. Then, I think it would probably be integrated by the Japanese in WW2, though assuming they are still on the losing side, it would probably go back to independence even if only nominal independence. They would be under heavy British influence with an Anglostyle Constitutional Monarchy, and they would probably slowly become more and more independent until they were totally independent by the 21st century. They might be a commonwealth nation tho, depending on if their constitutional monarch is from their native line, a new line, or is the British Crown. Or maybe it would still be an American ally and station US naval assets in their country. That would also be very possible.

@jaguarmemez

2 жыл бұрын

It used to exist until the US forcefully annexed jt

@FlyingAlfredoSaucer

2 жыл бұрын

@@jaguarmemez I know, but not for very long

@kobra6660

2 жыл бұрын

The kingdom of hawaii would probably still be under a monarchy and would've been a close ally for the us there really was no need to invade and steal hawaii

@matsal3211

2 жыл бұрын

What If ron paul was president

@bg1052

2 жыл бұрын

@@FlyingAlfredoSaucer Not for very long? Hawaii was independent for 103 years. From 1795 to 1898.

I enjoy your alternate history so much, I love Tiberian Wars so much, I really hope you do pursue that topic on Pointless Hub.

This is your best video in a long time! Thank you Cody!

Me and my friends have discussed this multiple times. We’re all Native Hawaiian and it’s nice to see a video discussing this outside of our home. Greatly appreciated and very well thought out and made!

@hackman669

2 жыл бұрын

So in modern times Hawaii is better off under American rule due to tourism and the independence of being a state?

@warfighter3128

2 жыл бұрын

@@hackman669 I guess you could say that yeah. I mean it still sucks. Natives and other Locals can barely afford housing for one thing, so a lot of us move to the mainland. And tourism is slowly destroying our ecosystems. Still, we are mostly left to our own devices. And preservation efforts have improved. Overall it isn’t so bad. There are still problems, a lot of them actually, and I think there will always be some form, however small, of bitterness since we were held at gunpoint all those decades ago, but we persevere. We make the best of what we got, and try to improve things however and whenever we can.

@catboyjohn

2 жыл бұрын

dude alternatehistoryhub made a terrible video, don’t be a shill for america

@warfighter3128

2 жыл бұрын

@@catboyjohn I’m not being a “shill”. You think I like what they did to my home? Fuck no! Me, my friends, and my family hate them for what they did to our land, our people, our culture! I’m just saying it could’ve been a lot worse for us! But there’s nothing any of us can do about it except keep our culture alive and move on.

@thewildcardperson

2 жыл бұрын

@@catboyjohn lol he's right tho America saved your asses again and you wanna complain about it just like everyone else we save we should let your culture die and just set up some McDonald's on your islands and volcanos

I'd imagine that Hawaii can manage to remain semi-independent under Britain, in a similar way as the Trucial States (now known as the UAE). The British also had a lot of influence and investment in the UAE. Also, like the collapse of sugar prices in this scenario, the UAE suffered when pearl prices collapsed.

@fuynnywhaka101

2 жыл бұрын

and Tonga too which kept is own monarchs and was more a Protectorate but never gave up its own sovereignty

@lordmeow

2 жыл бұрын

Id think Hawaii would be a protectorate, or have some autonomy. And also because of Hawaii's position in the middle of the atlantic and britain having a very good navy they would likely invest in infrastructure and ports

@jacklang3314

2 жыл бұрын

@@fuynnywhaka101 Uganda as well, with the added clause of Ugandans being the sole group able to own property.

@wannabehistorian371

2 жыл бұрын

@@jacklang3314 Nice.

@angusyang5917

Жыл бұрын

but unlike Hawaii in this timeline, the UAE was able to replace the pearl industry with oil, becoming one of the richest nations on the planet.

this feels like a throw back to what your usual content was when I was younger

1:16 That’s a real “Open the country. Stop having it be closed.” moment there.

0:25 Cody: "Hawaii is unique because it was a country before it was a state" Texas: WOAH there Pardner, y'all forgettin' 'bout someone!?

@StephenLynx8492

2 жыл бұрын

Vermont: (Cries in the corner.)

@PomaiKajiyama

2 жыл бұрын

Those are countries of Americans not an actual country. The Republic of Texas and Republic of California were both fake nation states whose only purpose was to surrender to the USA.

@robertortiz-wilson1588

2 жыл бұрын

@@Fahadalbassam07 California didn't. Still a garbage state right now though.

@GeneralissimoJiang

2 жыл бұрын

@@PomaiKajiyama uhm.... the Republic of Texas existed for 10 years and had international recognition. The original intent was to join the Union but America didn't support it. Then things shifted a bit with the election of President Mirabeau Lamar, whom was a Texas nationalist. He wanted Texas to remain a sovereign state and grow to be an empire of sorts. Obviously that never happened and due to problems with him raising the debt and the failures of the expeditions he hosted. The Unionist candidate, Sam Houston was reelected and 4 years later, thus Texas was annexed.

@GeneralissimoJiang

2 жыл бұрын

They also had a functional Army and Navy and an official currency (which quickly became useless due to the debt owed lol)

Having lived in Hawai'i for significant time-- mostly as a military veteran-- and after hearing the stories of how Marines took over Iliokani Palace, and the Kamehameha Family: I feel like I understand/can sympathize with the local population (all 5% of them) over their resentment of military and people from the Mainland.

@flathead3233

2 жыл бұрын

Hehehe all 5%

@daeseongkim93

2 жыл бұрын

It's Iolani Palace and 5% is a gross underestimation. Hawaiians and locals make up 80% of the actual Hawaii population, and transplants (Mainlanders) make up 20%. Those locals and Hawaiians who are pro-independence and really resent the military are maybe 5% sure, but I'd say that at least a quarter of the local and Hawaiian population if not more sympathize with independence and dislike the military as much.

@chris7263

2 жыл бұрын

@@daeseongkim93 without even looking up your statistics, I can tell something is wrong. If it's a 80/20 native/mainlander split, then how are you counting all the people with Asian ancestry?

@mgread51

2 жыл бұрын

@@daeseongkim93 I'm guessing you're counting people with a whole 2% native Hawaiian heritage huh?

@HyperK7

2 жыл бұрын

Just looked up the actual statistics according to the US Census. The population of the Hawaiian Islands is roughly 25% White, 10% Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander, around 24% mixed, 38% Asian, 10% Hispanic or Latino, and 2% African American/Black. All number are approximates, there’s another category labeled ‘white alone, not Hispanic or Latino’ at just under 22% but that one throws off the numbers a bit. You can check the Census for exact. Also, I’m not sure I would say all of the Native Hawaiians are anti-military. I know a few Hawaiians serving currently and such. Being against the mainlanders, yeah I can see most of the natives having that perspective.

More Cody content! I've been watching since 2014 and can never get enough!

I love all the enthusiastic shaking your photos and little avatars always make.

Having grown up in Hawaii, I'm really happy that Althistoryhub decided to give our islands some attention. My friend is partially Hawaiian and also a hawaiian ultranationalist, I think he'll enjoy this a lot!

@gwinnr6134

2 жыл бұрын

Ultranationalist.... wait...

@mappingshaman5280

2 жыл бұрын

What does a hawaiian ultranationalist look like? Do they just want an independent hawaii? Some sort of hawaiian empire? Kill all the non polynesians?)

@hawaiian645

2 жыл бұрын

I am that Hawaiian ultranationalist

@UTTPOfficerBennie

2 жыл бұрын

Hawaii ultranationalist is basically neo-confederate.

@ZeteticPhilosopher

2 жыл бұрын

@@mappingshaman5280 Hawaiian ultranationalism is polynesian. The native Hawaiians are the nationalist group. They’re moderately more pleasant than other ultranationalists, but still rather nasty, in my opinion.

I’d love to see a video about if Zheng He’s expeditions had continued after 1433. I think that it’s fascinating to imagine how Ming China would have compared against Western Europe from the late fifteenth century onwards; they definitely had the resources to make more expeditions like Zheng He’s, just not the initiative.

@JosePineda-cy6om

2 жыл бұрын

The world, or as a minimum southeast Asia and Eastern Africa, would be heavily Sinicized instead of Europeanized. With some luck, Japanese or Chinese merchants would arrive to the New World before Colombus (not impossible, remember the Spanish fleet would travel once per year the route Philipines - Mexico, back and forth), I believe colonisation in the New World would've been much more gentile, if it followed the mostly hands-off Chinese colonisation of southeast Asia

@slyninja4444

2 жыл бұрын

As someone who's studied east asia, I think Zheng He's expeditions are a bit overrated. They were not about colonialism, exploration, or even trade. They were about tribute and vassalage to the Emperor. *CONTEXT* The Yongle Emperor (Zhu Di) who commissioned them did it to solidify his legitimacy after overthrowing his nephew (previous emperor), by forcing other kingdoms to pay tribute to the Emperor. This was not trade in the western sense. The tributary voyages stopped as for one, they were becoming expensive, and two, future emperors did not need to prove legitimacy like Zhu Di did, and hence the voyages were seen as more trouble than they were worth. And even if they continued, its unlikely you would get a Chinese colonial empire (at least in the western sense). For one, there was no religion to "convert the heathens" to. Two, China already had plenty enough resources to sustain itself, and three is the merchant class was the lowest class. Western colonialism happened due to a high merchant class being able to exploit other lands for profit. In China, even wealthy merchants would most likely try to gain government jobs rather than settling some other land for profit. It would simply result in tributary vassalage, and not European style colonialism. In addition, this would not rule out the possibility of an Opium War (or similar conflict). The Opium Wars happened as the British had to go through China's tributary system for trade. In addition to Britain having little the Chinese actually wanted. Contrary to popular belief, the Opium wars didn't happen due to China isolating themselves from Britain, but because the British had little of interest for the Chinese to buy. *HOWEVER THATS NOT TO SAY EVERYTHING WOULD BE THE SAME.* The one thing that WOULD probably change if China remained open to the outside world would be no Qīng (Manchu) Dynasty. Let me explain: The Míng Dynasty's main problems started after the Jiājìng Emperor refused to trade with Altan Khan. Altan Khan did not want to take over China, but rather simply wanted trade relations (largly due to Mongolia's harsh climate making agriculture near impossible). Refusing to trade resulted in Mongol invasions, resulting in the need to build more of the great wall, resulting in the draining of the treasury, resulting in revolts, resulting in the Manchus being able to conquer China. If the Jiājìng Emperor agreed to trade with the Mongols and Manchus (Jurchens) on equal terms, Altan Khan and the Manchus would be vastly disincentivized to invade China, not only due to their desire for trade being satisfied, but also to avoid antagonizing their trade partners. The Míng sections of the great wall would henceforth not be built, however I don't think this would make much of a difference as bribary often resulted in people being let in regardless, not to mention the Manchus were allowed in BY the general running the wall at the time (rebals kidnapped his father resulting in him defecting to the Manchus's side). Also it's important to note that the Manchus did not succeed on military might alone, but also due to the dynasty having already collapsed with peasant rebals trying to claim the throne. *SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?* A number of things: For one, Tibet and Uyghurstan never become part of China. Instead probably being conquered by the British and Russians respectively. Two, the Manchus would still form their own Empire, but with a more stable Míng Dynasty as their trading partner, they would probably only conquer (all of) Mongolia, Transbaikal, and Amur. Becoming a tributary buffer state against Russia. Queues and Olbo Jackets never become staples of "Chinese" culture. Three, and most importantly *china would have guns.* The Qīng in our timeline were able to make firearms, however they were constantly afraid of a Han Chinese rebellion meaning they were never able to implement them properly. The Míng already had western cannons in our timeline meaning that it is perfectly reasonable that they would eventually have guns too. This would mean that any opium war style conflict might go more in China's favor. It is also possible that China might isolate itself due to a Christian rebellion like in Japan. Christians were spreading in the Míng Dynasty in our own timeline, and given that Christianity contradicts the belief in "The Mandate of Heaven" it is also possible that the Míng isolate themselves just like in our timeline (just 150 years later). Thus resulting in similar humiliations to this altranate Míng like what happened to our timeline's Qīng.

@wannabehistorian371

2 жыл бұрын

@@slyninja4444 This is fascinating! It’s a very different timeline, but not in how one may expect. Though wouldn’t more expeditions drain the treasury too?

@slyninja4444

2 жыл бұрын

@@wannabehistorian371 Yes, however it would have been smaller voyages (at the very most going as far as India) funded by the treasure that in our timeline would be used for the great wall. Again, I think the Great Wall (more specifically the Míng portions of it) is also a bit overrated. Corruption was a massive problem and people were often able to bribe their way through. In fact the last Míng General (Wu San Gui) actually opened the gates and let the Manchus in after a peasant rebal kidnapped the General's father for ransom.

@randomka-52alligatorthatis34

2 жыл бұрын

Ah yes, Victoria 2.

This is actually really interesting. I never knew anything about the history of Hawaii. Fascinating to see how it is so tied to the idea of manifest destiny.

My issue with this possible history is with the war between the US and Britain. If a war after 1812 happened between the US and Britain, British North America would have failed to the US. That is according to all British military officers writing about what worked and didn't work in the war of 1812 and what would have happened if that war continued or if a future war with the US happened. Those British officers contend that had the war with the US continued in the war of 1812 that the US would eventually take over British North America. This was because the US had it's whole population right there and could keep making armies over and over again until the North fell. The British on the other-hand could not constantly keep sending forces to America and could not send large forces ever due to supply issues. That is why the British military recommended to their parliament to make peace with the US when peace negotiations started. After the war they then wrote books explaining how Britain should look to avoid war with the US whenever possible because a future war with the US would have resulted in British North America falling fast. After the war of 1812 the US actually established plans to take British North America should a future war break out. This would have resulted according to British military officers in the quick fall of British North America to the US. This doesn't mean that is the end of the war of course. Britain still had the stronger navy at this point. and could have besieged the US coast line like they did in the war of 1812. Such a blockade would have worked the same as it did in the war of 1812 in that it would greatly hurt the US economy but it would not fully stop the economy as the US coastline was to big for the British navy to fully blockade. The US also as a result had the ability to continue to constantly build ships and due so quickly as the US has shown whenever it has been in a war that if it needs to build ships it can do so at a insane speed (see the war of 1812, the Spanish American war, the US Civil war, WW1 and WW2). So in the end I think such a war would have ended in a negotiated peace. The US would give back most of British North America to Britain and get Oregon and a agreement from Britain to leave Hawaii alone. Because what few people ever read about is the majority of the US population and politicians did not want British North America to be a part of the US. This was voted on in the US Senate and Congress twice before the war of 1812 (what the US would do if it ever gained control of British North America) and in those votes the US Senate and Congress both agreed twice in large numbers that the US did not want British North America. Many of you reading this may find this insane but it is true because the population of the US did not want to add a large Catholic population to the US (which was the majority of the population in British North America at the time).

@K9TheFirst1

2 жыл бұрын

I could see the Catholic bits (Quebec I presume) being made a territory, and later on a puppet. Sort of like a northern Cuba. But the rest I still see being made US land. If nothing else, it would make sense to annex everything south of the St. Lawrence, that's a natural border region right there.

Answer: I wouldn't have a shirt to wear for dressup day at work when I only remember the morning of

@Bombsbombsbombs

2 жыл бұрын

what the funny

@MattlikestrainsOfficial

2 жыл бұрын

@@openpage8891 no that wierd link and ugly profle picuer

I appreciate the thought and research that went into this quite insightful video. As other commenters here have already said, the fact that Cody didn't get into Japan's likely efforts to take the islands does not diminish the video's high quality.

@kahrine1115

2 жыл бұрын

1881年、世界一周旅行の最初の訪問国として来日した国王カラカウアは明治天皇に謁見した際、ハワイ王国の安泰のため日本とハワイの連邦化を提案した。その時のカラカウアからの提案は次の通りである。 日本・ハワイの連邦化 日本・ハワイ間のホットライン敷設 日本主導によるアジア共同体の創設 カイウラニ王女と山階宮定麿王の縁談 同じ有色人種である日本人のハワイへの移民（当時のハワイは西欧からもたらされた疫病により、原住民の人口が激減していた） In 1881, King Kalakaua, who came to Japan as the first country to visit around the world, proposed the federalization of Japan and Hawaii for the security of the Kingdom of Hawaii when he had an audience with Emperor Meiji. time is as follows. Federalization of Japan and Hawaii Laying a hotline between Japan and Hawaii Creation of an Asian community led by Japan Marriage between Princess Ka'iulani and King Yamashina Miyasada Japanese immigrants of the same color to Hawaii (Hawaii at that time had a drastic decrease in the indigenous population due to the plague brought from Western Europe) 日本政府はアメリカとの対立を避けるため、これらの提案を「良友　睦仁」の御筆の入った親書をもって丁重に断った。 しかし、移民の促進に関しては問題がないと考え、1885年には日布移民条約が締結され、官製移民団が組織されるようになった。官製の移民は1885年から1894年まで続き、総計29,339人がハワイに渡った。 In order to avoid conflict with the United States, the Japanese government politely declined these proposals with a letter containing the writing of "Good Friend Mutsuhito."(Mutsuhito is Emperor Meiji real name) However, considering that there was no problem in promoting immigration, the Japan-Hawaii Immigration Treaty was signed in 1885, and a government-made immigrant group was formed. Government-made immigrants continued from 1885 to 1894, with a total of 29,339 people traveling to Hawaii. Please forgive my poor English.

This is my favorite channel on KZread. I hope you’re rich off these videos. They’re rad.

"Hawaii was unique because it was a nation" Texas and Vermont: "Are we a joke to you?"

@RiggsBF

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t forget California it was its own nation for about a month.

@davidroddini1512

2 жыл бұрын

Technically, California was as well for 14 days before joining the U.S.

@JosePineda-cy6om

2 жыл бұрын

It is unique because Texians (the way illegal Anglo settlers in Mexican Texas called themselves) wanted to unite with the USA from day #1 of their short-lived republic. They never really wanted the Republic of Texas to exist forever besides the USA, they wanted to be *IN* the USA. The 10 years it lasted were more due to US Congress debating incessantly whether to absorb it or not, than because of Texians' desires. The Hawai'ian kingdom was a good ol' conquest and absorbtion, pure imperialism

@legchairhistorian5496

2 жыл бұрын

Nation. Not country. Also the Hawaiian state was based on something else than American settlers

@16ktsgamma

2 жыл бұрын

California: Shortest Nation before becoming a state.

The story of Hawaii's flag is a little bit more complicated. Hawaii did use the UK'S ensign for a while, but during the war of 1812 it was decided to add an American flavor, in order to state their neutrality, therefore they added 8 stripes for the 8 main islands of Hawaii.

@catboyjohn

2 жыл бұрын

dude the colors are not american

@brookiecookie472

2 жыл бұрын

@@catboyjohn they're both red white and blue

@natenae8635

2 жыл бұрын

@@brookiecookie472 They aren’t there because of America or anything about America.

@elyenidacevedo1995

2 жыл бұрын

@@natenae8635 bruh it's a state obviously it has something to do with America

@kylerdaconquer0078

Жыл бұрын

true, but ironically the white on the top of the flag during times of peace represent the god lono (hawaiian religon) as Lono is associated with peace and makahiki season, and when the flag is upside down the red symbolises distress. btw, the hawaiians mistook captain cook for lono because he arrived on the islands during makahiki, also the white sails of the ship looked similar to that of the akua loa which also represented the time of makahiki

Aa someone born and raised here in Hawaii (and a history revisionist), this video was really awesome. The breakdown of the history that is oft forgotten to the speculative views were really well said. All that being said, if there was a WWII (or even WWI) in that timeline, what do you think would have happened? Either British or AXIS powers eying Hawaii as a strategic point could have had a worse long term outcome for the islands is still highly likely (like many commenters have already stated).

THANK YOU FOR COVERING MY HOME!!!!!! Your my favorite you tuber and now I like you EVEN MORE!

What if Russia joined the EU and NATO in the 90s after the USSR collapsed?

@theshlauf

2 жыл бұрын

Or take it next level, what if NATO had said yes to USSR's application to join in the 50's after Stalin died.

@wisdomleader85

2 жыл бұрын

Then NATO would lose its meaning of existence.

@geth7112

2 жыл бұрын

@@theshlauf big Brain NATO fight communism with communism.

@alw2839

2 жыл бұрын

@@geth7112 Democratic socialism*

@kavky

2 жыл бұрын

That would imply it had a functioning economy, moderate level of corruption, and no territorial disputes in order to join. And a non-corrupt Russia is just a silly idea.

Love your videos! Keep up the good work!

I loved deadliest warrior back in the day. You got my sub

ive speculated on this lots, great youve done it

I wonder if Japan would have just invaded the Islands instead then, since they just simply wanted more land, and tbh it would give them a better hold in the Pacific.

@HawaiianForgeStudios

2 жыл бұрын

They would, they threatened the US Government for the West Coast treatment of Japanese immigrants prior to WWII. The US didnt want a war with Japan at the time. Japan would have done the same to Hawaii, especially because David Kalakaua had a great relationship with the administration in Japan.

@wubbers662

2 жыл бұрын

@@HawaiianForgeStudios Making this an easy takeover of the island and exploting the weak spot of the US, cutting off the West Coast with the islands in the pacific

@frags6940

2 жыл бұрын

The battle of midway would of been followed by an amphibious invasion.

@TheEditFactory

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe Britiain likes Hawaii so much it would defend it?

@wubbers662

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheEditFactory Did you not see how well they defended their own colonies in WW2? Mainly Raj because they left them for dead

I still feel that even if Hawaii remained independent it would have been absorbed into the Japanese Empire during WW2 or even before the war as Japan was already expanding into the islands us to be held by the German Empire. And as the Sugar industry fails Hawaii would be in a prim position to be annexed. I think this senario is even more likely because the Island already has a large Japanese population imported by the Planter class making anexation easer. Hawaii would then most likely be developed into a alternate military base by the Japanese because Owaho Harbor is one of the finest natural harbors of the world so we could see an alternate battle for Pearl Harbor play out. Does this senario makes sense to y'all.

@HawaiianForgeStudios

2 жыл бұрын

This is likely due to even the plans by Hideki Tojo prior to WWII telling us exactly that, he wanted a similar state system that controlled all of the Pacific. (read about it in Tojo's section of Visions of War).

@wannabehistorian371

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, missed opportunity there. This would definitely be the darker timeline lol. If the local Japanese population show more loyalty to a possibly still existing monarchy or to their fellow non-white Hawaiian brethren like a lot of Japanese Americans were loyal to the US OTL though, maybe they might not be able to hold it for long due to sheer distance. How strong a hold they have depends entirely on how much the local Japanese population is willing to go along with it because the Japanese Empire infamously sucks at logistics.

@bella42291

2 жыл бұрын

The Kingdom of Hawaii and Japan where friendly but Hawaii had a neutral stance. There is no strategic reason for Japan to take Hawaii.

@daeseongkim93

2 жыл бұрын

Having been a volunteer docent at the Iolani Palace and Hawaii Judiciary Museum and a Hawaii local who has spent considerable amount of time immersed in Hawaiian history. The Japanese Empire respected Hawaii's neutrality, right up until the U.S. actually annexed it. King Kalakaua had even proposed the marriage of Emperor Meiji's daughter to his own son, though this idea didn't go too far as the King had passed away, the son had married off to a Hawaiian noble, and Emperor Meiji declined the offer due to conflicts closer to home. I'd reckon if WWII were to occur and Hawaii was still independent, Japan would have respected Hawaii's neutrality but the Hawaiian monarch would actually go the same route as Thailand and joined the Axis in a supporting role out of respect for Japan. Many Asian countries were inspired by the Japanese belief in nationalization, and ridding them of their colonial overlords with the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. In this case, the Japanese would help get rid of the white American sugar barons and growing American influence that Liholiho, Kalakaua, and Liliuokalani were afraid of. Just like in Thailand's case, there would have been factionalism in the royal court and military with siding with Japan; Duke Robert Kalanihiapo Wilcox and Prince Kalaniana'ole, Prince Kawananakoa would have all been on board with joining Japan.

@wannabehistorian371

2 жыл бұрын

@@daeseongkim93 I mean what’s the point getting rid of colonial overlords if they just replaced them with new ones eh? Indonesia, Hong Kong, Singapore, and the Philippines sure know. Hint: It wasn’t good. But sure, they sure cared about nationalization there. Don’t know what kind of Imperialist propaganda you’ve been fed but Co Prosperity Sphere was that, propaganda. Not sure if that’s your actual name but if you actually are Korean maybe ask your grandparents about it.

Ayeeee, another Alternate History Hub video. My day just got better, haha.

I FORGOT ABOUT DEADLIEST WARRIOR! You're getting my instant subscribe for that channel by just mentioning it.

Nothing like the feeling of coming home from school and being 7 minutes early to a history hub video

I see a retrospective on Deadliest Warrior, I subscribe. That's just how it works.

I'm so grateful for Hawaii. I went there in March for my honeymoon and it was absolutely incredible. The people were so rediculously nice. Their culture is so rich and beautiful.

That was a very heartwarming message in the end!

I see that you’ve removed the apostrophe in the decades after Mr. Beat called you out XD

It would be interesting to see a video on what if the Ainu tribes of Hokkaido managed to unify, get independent, and modernize

@JosePineda-cy6om

2 жыл бұрын

Ainu didn't just exist on Hokkaido, but also northern Honshu, Sakhalin and the Kurils. They were fought to near extermination on Honshu by the ethnic Japanese, and the last Ainus intermingled with the Yamato people and all that remains of them are some words in their dialects of Japanese that come from Ainu, and some traditions like hunting bears with spear. In Sakhalin they existed until Stalin times, when they were in part exterminated in part mass-deported to Siberia - the surviving ones assimilated to other ethnic groups and dissappeared, same in the Kurils. And as to them modernizing... almost impossible. They were fighting the Japanese ever since the Middle Ages, but very few of them abandoned their semi-nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyle to become farmers, and the few of them that did quickly became culturally Japanese. Becoming subjects of Japan, China (which at times claimed Sakhalin) or Russia was almost unavoidable.

I’m sorry. Wait. Pointless hub. They’re…the same guy? I feel stupid now.

The "Hub" brothers are the most underrated youtube siblings.

@SanFranFan30

Ай бұрын

@cathyhawaii lmao

Can you do a video about interwar Lithuania? The period has many interesting subjects and ideas that can be explored...

I love Hawaii my dude keep it up!

I just happened across your new channel and thought the voice was very familiar. I click on this video and the first 12 seconds answered my questions

Awesome analysis

It's always nice when you realize you're in the good timeline in a given scenario

Love the Dickfigures reference, I miss that show

One of the best vids ever

Can we get a “Entire Lore of Halo” video, like the one you did on Fallout?

@KonEl-BlackZero

2 жыл бұрын

Bethesta paid him for that video

You should do a video about the Wolfenstein universe. Like the one you made about Fallout.

Hawaii is interesting to me in that when I lived in California, I knew a lot of people who were from Hawaii but none were actually native Hawaiians. They were mostly Filipinos but they identified more with Hawaii than the Philippines and referred to themselves as Pacific Islanders

I loved the Deadliest Warrior video, and did you say “Tiberium Wars”??? I’m gonna subscribe NOW

WAIT THIS GUY IS POINTLESS HUB!?!?

Paulet was ready to throw down. Gotta respect that 😂

A restored Kingdom of Hawaii was mentioned in a book from the Wingman series of novels. In it Hawaii was impoverished, organized crime was rampant, and corruption was rife. Not to mention they were constantly under threat of attack from outside forces.

Finally the I've been waiting for is here.

Congrats on 2 mill

Yeah, that is true. While the US annexing hawaii wasn't ok, in the end it's probably the best thing that could have happened to it. The natural beauty is still here. The Hawaiian language and some elements of the culture, even if only by threads, hung on and is not wholly dead. We have actual money in the form of tourism. We have secured rights and protection from any invader. I'm not sure there's any other scenario that ends up as good as the one we're living in, overall.

@HeavyMetalorRockfan9

2 жыл бұрын

This is typically what american imperialism looks like tbh - yeah its fucked but the alternative is somehow worse

@legchairhistorian5496

2 жыл бұрын

Why wasn’t it okay?

@potatosalad9085

2 жыл бұрын

@@legchairhistorian5496 it was still conquest and that's frowned upon nowadays, something about national sovereignty and coping

@alexanderfurrows7946

2 жыл бұрын

I disagree, the Hawaiian native people (or at the very least their monarchy) were extremely pro-British. Specifically, after unification a delegation was sent by the kingdom of Hawaii to America and then Britain to see which country they wanted to be ‘protected’ by - when the delegation arrived in Washington they faced racism by the Americans (because Manifest Destiny mode), but when they arrived in London they were treated like a real diplomatic delegation (because the British were used to having formal alliances with natives like the Iroquois or the Indian Rajas). Due to their experience with the Iroquois and India, the British were far more used to establishing protectorates as disposed to colonies - meanwhile manifest destiny meant America was more used to expelling natives, and settling land. I don’t quite see why the independent kingdom would be more segregated and dominated by planters than it was IRL.

@Karlach_

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexanderfurrows7946 Ah well, it doesn't matter because in the end what happened happened and what happened can't ever be changed as secession from the Union is illegal so all that's left to do is to debate over the could've should've would'ves like so many other hypotheticals.

This really puts the Native Hawaiian Independence Movement into perspective. Yes, their colonial history was dark and ugly, but after watching this video, it’s clear that things could have turned out much worse for them.

@deoccupyhawaii6268

2 жыл бұрын

Hawaii is not America but these sovereignty groups have all been Americans. We're repatriating now and reclaiming our rights in our jurisdiction. Tell every Hawaiian you know to repatriate.

@Velesk-hn1wm

8 ай бұрын

@@deoccupyhawaii6268 Since Hawaii became a state its been open to immigration from the US mainland and now there are a lot of people who are not indingenous living there. You can't just turn the clock back on those islands, they're no longer the country you want them to be. Instead of this farce how about advocating for financial support for native Hawaiians. Getting them access to education and state support for starting their own businesses. You know do something that could actually benefit the state instead of LARPing.

@valdewar8093

6 ай бұрын

This is dumb.

Just found my new favorite hub

Interesting. But two things: 1) If the theoretical war you mention DID occur, I think it would have just delayed a takeover. It probably would have been annexed by someone (probably the US) a while later. 2) There are probably quite a few scenarios where the islands are split up in some way. For instance, one outcome of this theoretical war could have been that the UK protects some of the islands, but not all.

When you look at your phone during class and this notification pops up. Bloody delicious

The Hawaiian Empire would crush us all

@juliananievera1589

2 жыл бұрын

@@openpage8891 bro stop

@JPA_Games

2 жыл бұрын

@@juliananievera1589 Open page is a bot, so it can't stop. I've reported it a few times, and you should as well.

@juliananievera1589

2 жыл бұрын

@@JPA_Games yes

You got me interested I miss that show

Alternate history hub finally made knowledge hub

Good job with this video. I can see you put in time and effort. It’s honestly something I think about sometimes, what if Hawaii stayed independent? But I never wonder ‘how’ it could have occurred. But I do wonder if Japan would have made some sort of attempts to take over the Hawaii if the Asian population got exponentially big.

@deoccupyhawaii6268

2 жыл бұрын

Japan gained it's independence through recognition from Hawaii. Treaties between the two countries still exist.

@kahrine1115

2 жыл бұрын

1881年、世界一周旅行の最初の訪問国として来日した国王カラカウアは明治天皇に謁見した際、ハワイ王国の安泰のため日本とハワイの連邦化を提案した。その時のカラカウアからの提案は次の通りである。 日本・ハワイの連邦化 日本・ハワイ間のホットライン敷設 日本主導によるアジア共同体の創設 カイウラニ王女と山階宮定麿王の縁談 同じ有色人種である日本人のハワイへの移民（当時のハワイは西欧からもたらされた疫病により、原住民の人口が激減していた） In 1881, King Kalakaua, who came to Japan as the first country to visit around the world, proposed the federalization of Japan and Hawaii for the security of the Kingdom of Hawaii when he had an audience with Emperor Meiji. time is as follows. Federalization of Japan and Hawaii Laying a hotline between Japan and Hawaii Creation of an Asian community led by Japan Marriage between Princess Ka'iulani and King Yamashina Miyasada Japanese immigrants of the same color to Hawaii (Hawaii at that time had a drastic decrease in the indigenous population due to the plague brought from Western Europe) 日本政府はアメリカとの対立を避けるため、これらの提案を「良友　睦仁」の御筆の入った親書をもって丁重に断った。 しかし、移民の促進に関しては問題がないと考え、1885年には日布移民条約が締結され、官製移民団が組織されるようになった。官製の移民は1885年から1894年まで続き、総計29,339人がハワイに渡った。 In order to avoid conflict with the United States, the Japanese government politely declined these proposals with a letter containing the writing of "Good Friend Mutsuhito."(Mutsuhito is Emperor Meiji real name) However, considering that there was no problem in promoting immigration, the Japan-Hawaii Immigration Treaty was signed in 1885, and a government-made immigrant group was formed. Government-made immigrants continued from 1885 to 1894, with a total of 29,339 people traveling to Hawaii. Please forgive my poor English.

There is actually a Russian fortress on Kauai called Fort Elizabeth.

I feel stupid for not realizing Pointless Hub is your other channel. I stumbled upon your Bumblebee movie video and was instantly hooked. But I was nagging at me that your voice sounded so familiar. Now I know why 😅

Never thought of this till now. 🤔

Ever consider the Soviet Union attempting to ally with Hawaii and establish a communist regime like in Cuba? That would've been a cool scenario to see an American reaction. Otherwise, great video! Keep up the great work!

@accent1666

2 жыл бұрын

*Meanwhile in the sixties during an Alternative Cold War* *HAWAIIAN MISSILE CRISIS!*

@fatrooster4632

2 жыл бұрын

I could see that happening. Like a sugar worker revolution against the planter class, led by a Hawaiian Castro, and the establishment of a communist govt aligned with the USSR

@Agent-Blaze

2 жыл бұрын

@@accent1666 Hmm sounds like that came from a specific HOI4 mod

@accent1666

2 жыл бұрын

@@Agent-Blaze you know what I'm talking about eh? ;)

@Joannes808

2 жыл бұрын

There was a Communist Party of Hawaii in our timeline as it was, until the Hawaii 7 witch-hunt trials. The Hilo massacre, Hanapepe massacre, the "1954 democratic revolution" (the title leaves things very anti-climatic, but you get the point). As you can imagine a living in a corporate territory where the governor was little more than a puppet for several racist corporate plantation elites would make the idea of communist revolution somewhat favorable.

Video Suggestion: What if the Spanish and Portuguese empires never collapsed?

Pointless hub is the GOAT

Nice point mate .

As a native Hawaiian I always imagine this situation and I made a joke in class with my friends that the native Hawaiians plus all the Samoans(really big people, if u don’t know look it up) could probably take over the capital.

Fun fact: The islands of Hawaii are in fact the peak of the worlds highest mountain.

@mappingmapping95

2 жыл бұрын

Tallest,not highest

@YaBoiDREX

Жыл бұрын

@@mappingmapping95 same thing

@mappingmapping95

Жыл бұрын

@@YaBoiDREX no it isn't Tallest refers to your hieght(Example I'm 6ft tall) How high you are refers to your elevation or the distance from the ground(Let's say I'm at an airplane and it's 33k ft above the ground,that is how high I am)

@YaBoiDREX

Жыл бұрын

@@mappingmapping95 Your just being pedantic

You know, the mentions of the Oregon Territory here kind of reminds me of a seldom spoken of figure in history that was fairly interesting to the region, and could have had an impact. Chief Comcomly of the Chinook Tribes. A lot of impact from the diplomacy and trade that he worked, to the fact that his, Grandson if I remember was the first person to teach the English Language in Japan. Just something the odd mention of the disagreements over the Oregon Territory reminded me of. There's a very distinct, interesting history there from the successful creation of the settlement of Astoria, to the early American Fur Trading Company there. From key figures that the chief saved from drowning, to his own diplomacy to manage to keep his tribe's position even as territory shifted between English and American, or the legacy of his lineage. Interesting historical possibilities in there.

Hey Cody, I absolutely love your show. I know you will probably never see this comment, but I was wondering on the plausibility of a certain scenario regarding the Americas. I play a casual alternate history roll playing ham I made up with my friends that is sort of like online d&d. In a particular scenario (this was done before your war of 1812 video) we had the U.S absolutely lose the war of 1812 while also being even more aggressive. In our scenario, the Hartford Convention goes through, and New England secedes from the Union, and takes New York State as well. Tecumseh doesn’t die, and forms a confederation comprising the modern states of Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois and Ohio. Time passes, and tensions build up again between the U.S and its neighbors. Another war is fought in the 1830s that sees the U.S lose again to the Native Confederation, New England and Mexico. Mexico in this scenario is stable as well as Gran Colombia, (since in this scenario Bolivar never goes onto Peru). Despite losing two wars, the spirit of Manifest Destiny is still present in the U.S, and although in this scenario Mexico never invites U.S settlers into Texas. Tensions arise again in the 1850s. Eventually, a war is fought between the U.S and Mexico, but the U.S doesn’t have the industrial capabilities or tactical leadership that it had in our timeline. The U.S loses again to Mexico, which takes New Orleans. We sort of stopped here (other things were going on in South America as well), but I was wondering what the plausibility of this scenario would be, and what would happen if this were our reality. Would the U.S be politically unstable, and surpassed by Mexico and New England? Would the spirit of Manifest Destiny have been squashed?

I think an interesting concept after seeing this would be, instead, to think of what Hawaii would be like were it never to have been discovered. It's not too unrealistic either, given the scale of the pacific and just how much of it went undiscovered centuries after the European voyages into it.

Hawaiians after watching the video: Well guys, it was a nice dream.

10:20 AlternateHistoryHub bustin’ out the rhymes

Would be nice to see a similar video on the Vermont Republic