Well short answer: they all grew up. Plus once Spider-Man proved teen superheroes could mainline a story, the sidekick idea lost its power

@JohnPeacekeeper

10 ай бұрын

Or the Sidekick becomes the hero in their own right, again, looking at Nightwing.

@MaxIronsThird

10 ай бұрын

Why do people keep pretending Peter Parker was a teenager for more than 3 years?

@A_Random_Ghost

10 ай бұрын

@@MaxIronsThird Err, it'd be weird seeing a teenager less than 16 fighting crime. After that you've just got 3 years of your teenage life...

@JohnPeacekeeper

10 ай бұрын

@@MaxIronsThird It's exactly this problem that led to One More Day

@JohnPeacekeeper

10 ай бұрын

@@A_Random_Ghost Counterpoint: Billy Batson in most adaptations still starts at 12. Though... Correct me if I'm wrong but the live action movies does still have him at 15, yeah?

They basically turned the sidekicks into their own main superheroes 🖤☯️

@thegreatacolyt1277

10 ай бұрын

Yeah

@chungdha

10 ай бұрын

@@thegreatacolyt1277 Or villians

@theblankyblankness

10 ай бұрын

Everyone at least gets a miniseries spin off. Rocket raccoon had 4 part series that was mid 80s late 90's and know one knew the Guardians until the movie came out.

@theblankyblankness

10 ай бұрын

I mean marvel had hit monkey an assassin's side kick is the ghost of an assassin/spy.

@thegreatacolyt1277

10 ай бұрын

@@theblankyblankness he had a shorts show in like 2018 too

I think the sidekick formula works best when the sidekick is there for more than just making the main hero or villain in some cases look good.

@bradxv

10 ай бұрын

for sure, when the character is their own person. aside from sidekicks tho, i feel like 2 buddy vigilantes is also pretty enjoyable

@ironmaster6496

10 ай бұрын

And that's why i hate what Frank Miller did to Robin, he literally was just there to show Batman was a badass (like literally every single character in his horrible comics), a mission that failed spectacularly considering how insane he was in All Star and strikes again

@ccelite3782

10 ай бұрын

Batman has arguably had better stories when he's alone.

@ironmaster6496

10 ай бұрын

​@@ccelite3782and Robin/Nightwing works better when he is with his own team

@sim4344

9 ай бұрын

@@ccelite3782 That is pretty arguable. Because a lot of people like Batman stories better when he's balanced out by the Bat Family. Batman is a zealot, and doesn't really have a lot of personality by himself.

With the popularity and success of shows like Teen Titans, I think general audiences have really come to accept the idea of these types of characters being the stars of their own story, rather than simply being bit-players in someone else's 😊

@crona1794

10 ай бұрын

Not to mention Spider-Man's arrival back in the 60's proved that teen hero's didn't need to play second fiddle to their adult counter parts.

@marcusstewart4141

10 ай бұрын

🎯

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

10 ай бұрын

I think you can have both in live action. If you have Batman adopt Dick Grayson and become Robin in a movie, then that opens up the possibility of bringing in the Teen Titans later down the line. But they never do that. It's always Batman being dark and gritty, and alone. It's it's kind of boring, and overdone. They don't let Batman grow or age.

@afriend5994

9 ай бұрын

You mean popularity and success amongst teenagers? That's the primary audience of the CW. Plus hard to call it a success when CW shows has virtually always lost money.

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

9 ай бұрын

@@afriend5994 just because that's the primary target doesn't mean it was successful. They refused to cancel shows like Batwoman despite horrible views, same can be said for a lot of other shows they made.

I think the way the MCU handled Bucky was a smart reimagining as a "sidekick"; a best friend is kinda like a sidekick. I'm excited for Brave & the Bold to finally handle the Batman and a young Robin (tbh I like Damian Wayne)

@ninjanibba4259

10 ай бұрын

I never saw Bucky as a sidekick, that would be Sam

@stevenscott2136

10 ай бұрын

For most of MCU Steve's life pre-serum, HE was the sidekick. Then a year or so of Bucky being Cap's sidekick (among a whole squad of others), then he's dead, then he's an enemy, then he's a partner, and then Cap's dead.

@LincolnDWard

10 ай бұрын

@@ninjanibba4259 In the comics, Bucky serves as a sidekick to Cap pre-ice, then Sam fills a similar role post-ice

@ninjanibba4259

10 ай бұрын

@@LincolnDWard this isn't the comics

@reaperraider999

10 ай бұрын

Im also excited for brave and the bold, I just hope that Dick Grayson is introduced at some point in the new DCU. My guess is that brave and the bold will give us an already established batman who at one point had Dick Grayson as his sidekick and has already moved on to Damian. What I hope they do not do is make Damian Nightwing and never introduce Dick.

I assumed the trend of making the main superhero more relatable was what caused the idea of the sidekick to fade away. Previously, the main superhero was larger than life, a paragon of justice to whom no one could relate; as a result, the sidekick was added to provide the reader with a connection to the comic's world and display a new side of the main superhero. Spiderman may not have been the first to make the main superhero more relatable, but when he first appeared, Spidey was essentially a sidekick trying to play the hero without any guide rails.

I think one of the biggest reasons why sidekicks don’t appear on-screen is kids age quickly. Movies get green lit every 2-3 years. You have a 9-year-old portray Robin, then boom, he’s 12 by the sequel. You do a trilogy and he’s 15. Puberty kicks in and maybe a disinterest in continuing to do the role. Yes, a good writer can take into consideration aging, but I don’t think it’s easy.

@ashleytuchin7693

10 ай бұрын

That's the same issue the Shazam movies had. By the second movie Billy was already looking too old for the 'kid turns into an adult superhero' premise.

@EZ-IZZY1995

10 ай бұрын

That's why they need to find kids like Ralph Machio. Dude went through puberty at like 33

@janaekelis

9 ай бұрын

there are very few actors who look eternally young too. for example, the cast of Stranger Things is allowed to age as the story progresses over YEARS. so they are always portraying the age they are. another netflix series, On My Block, manages to cast young adults who are permanently youthful. the actor for Ruby is joked on for being the shortest and most childish of the friend group and plays a 13 year old at 22

@janaekelis

9 ай бұрын

​@@EZ-IZZY1995he still looks younger than 61 as of right now!

@rickymorphew2245

2 ай бұрын

exactly what im worried about with damian wayne. love the character and cant wait to see him. but it might end up being another umbrella academy 5 situation,

Surprised you didn't mention how Snyder literally killed off Superman's original sidekick Jimmy Olsen so early in Batman V. Superman as another example of preferring them dead over alive. The other important one would be Lego Batman, which directly confronted all the things you're saying here, both some of the silliness, but also the youthful innocence and family elements. It really did show the value of a sidekick, even when leaning into the ridiculous parts of the trope.

@oliverbrownlow5615

9 ай бұрын

Starkids' satirical *Holy Musical, B@man* likewise had some important things to say about the meaning and purpose of sidekicks.

@trevturp6891

7 күн бұрын

Jimmy Olsen isn’t Superman’s original sidekick.

Superboy was NOT a sidekick. He was a young, teen aged pre Superman.

@PrincessLioness

10 ай бұрын

This video is not well informed. ​​⁠Thor has a side kick now (Love), Ant man has his daughter, Dr.Strange legitimately had a kid sidekick, one of the alien kids joined joined the new GOTG team at the end. Ms. Marvel in The Marvels. The mcu is doing this and the video doesn’t mention it at all.

Another point that's worth mentioning is that unlike when Robin debuted, it's now considered acceptable for a teen to simply be the main hero themself. That was a big controversy when Spider-man was introduced in the 60s. If you look at the MCU, we have young idealistic characters in Ms. Marvel, Spider-man, Riri Williams, and there is even one case where I'd say be do see the hero/sidekick dynamic: Hawkeye and Kate Bishop. "Thor: Love and Thunder" ends with him adopting a young sidekick, and even enlisting/empowering young children to fight in the climatic battle. And then there's Miles Morales in the Spiderverse films, though obviously that's not live action.

I firmly believe sidekicks like Robin, Bucky, Kid Flash, Wonder Girl, Superboy, Speedy, Aqualad etc... all share a massive importance in the superhero genre, they give youthful hope to readers/viewers in a cynical pessimistic world. Young Justice especially proved the importance of sidekicks. Sidekicks like Robin give Batman hope for the future generation as when Dick lost his parents Bruce saw that little boy who could've fallen into the same empty abyss he went through, so by instinct he offered to give him a home a better life than he had and Bruce raised Dick to be a good man, a partner in crime fighting, a hero of his own right and above all else gave Bruce a son to love, and thankfully Robin would continue with other Robins like Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Damian Wayne, Stephanie Brown etc... Im especially hopeful that we officially have confirmation that the DCU Batman will have the Batfamily and Damian Wayne Robin, and hopefully we can see a resurgence of sidekicks in live action well written CBM's

@benskywalker7

10 ай бұрын

Yes, I completely agree

@mbogucki1

10 ай бұрын

I have to be honest and say those "sidekicks" never gave me youthful hope, even as a kid. In fact Robin more or less annoyed the crap out of me as a wholly unrealistic character. The only time I could stand him was in BTAS when he was a college student. His costume never made sense either. Now as Nightwing that is a different story. I personally really hope that Robin never makes an appearance in Matt Reeves Batman films.

@justice_productions_

10 ай бұрын

@@mbogucki1I hope he does because that logic is so outdated. Robin is important. And you don’t get Nightwing without him.

@mbogucki1

10 ай бұрын

​@@justice_productions_ How is it outdated? A tiny pre-teen boy fighting criminals in a hyper real gritty environment while wearing short-shorts will look utterly ridiculous. The only way around this is to make Robin in the style of Arkham Asylum games where he is an older teen and wearing body armor. Finally I disagree, you can absolutely skip the silly Robin persona and just go right into Nightwing.

@justice_productions_

10 ай бұрын

@@mbogucki1 But then you can’t do Jason Todd, it’s also outdated now that we’re in an era that embraces silly stuff in the world of comic books. It’s 2023 not 2003

The sidekicks offer a setting of apprenticeship where the master teaches the younger hero. It also allows the audience a platform to delve into the logic and creed of the main hero, while creating a younger version for the audience to identify with. Keeping sidekicks young offers a gateway to new audiences as well.

Another problem might be “studios want every superhero movie to be a franchise” and it’s hard to make a franchise of “young heroes” when it takes years to make a sequel and the young actors age with that time

Technically I don’t think Superman had a sidekick. Originally Superboy was just Clark as a kid, then when Kon/ Conner came along, Superman didn’t really have much to do with him. Unless you count Jonathan as a sidekick.

@isolationcowboy1201

10 ай бұрын

I was actually about to type this. Superboy(Conner) is barley a sidekick to superman. Supermans real sidekick is either Jimmy Olsen or Krypto his dog.

@rahulray9983

9 ай бұрын

Entire Justice League is Superman's sidekick

@stephanberger3476

9 ай бұрын

THIS

It's funny how you mention bucky, because in the main marvel comic continuity, the apparent death of Bucky was the turning point in marvel when their heroes decided not to have younger sidekicks around in-universe. After that any younger heroes would either be students like the X-men, or form their own team like the runaways or the young avengers.

@melissaharris3389

9 ай бұрын

MARVEL realized that having their heros engage in child endangerment or straight promoting child soilders was a bad look.

3:09 You forgot the Robin in The Dark Knight Rises. Also 6:26 The new Marvel films and shows, show us that yes we are living in a world seeing a rush of teen sidekicks.

@trevturp6891

7 күн бұрын

How are we seeing a rush of teen sidekicks in The M-She-U?

Robin has always been my favorite character in superhero media, I hope he's done well once he makes his big return in James Gunn's Brave And The Bold. Also, would X-23 count as a side kick? With her appearance, they were able to pull off the "adolescent kid takes down men twice their size" trope.

@YuzuMelodious

10 ай бұрын

I don't think the word "sidekick" fits Laura. In Logan (2017), she starts off as the tritagonist (obviously as the film goes along she becomes the deuteragonist). And yet the story revolves around her as without her, there is no story in comparison to a supporting character. This isn't even mentioning her very original counterpart from the X-Men Evolution show where she may be a kid, everything she does is all according to her own agency.

@migooolllb3823

10 ай бұрын

​@@YuzuMelodious agree

To be honest, I love The Tick's take on sidekicks; how in that world sidekicks are kind of treated like second-class citizens despite the vast majority of superheroes being rather dumb. Although The Tick at least is besties with his sidekick, Arthur... and would be completely lost without him!

There's also the whole CHILD ENDANGERMENT thing with teen sidekicks. It may be more apparent in a live action movie than a comic or a cartoon. Or not.

Another more recent shift is having the teen superheroes (who lead their own titles and their own teams) being youthful contemporaries to their namesakes rather than sidekicks. Miles Morales and Kamala Khan are alongside Peter Parker and Carol Danvers and not under them. The same can be said of Nightwing.

the problem is everything has to be gritty, dark, "grounded" but somehow not realistic, also i think they're afraid what parents would do if they featured a child superhero into one of these worlds cause they'e be afraid their own kids would try to emulate those hero kids and do dangerous things

@superafrikanmedialabs8237

8 ай бұрын

THAT PART!!!

@professorbaxtercarelessdre1075

8 ай бұрын

@@superafrikanmedialabs8237 i had a feeling, and it makes sense, kids are crazy, its like they want to get hurt, me and my siblings certainly seemed to as kids lol

Probably the reason that I’m super excited for the new DCU is because the Batfam will finally debut in live action, sidekicks get a horrible treatment in live action and hopefully, brave and the bold will change that

It seems like most 'sidekicks' today are being more fleshed out and given the chance to develop on their own beyond just playing a supporting role to the main hero,which I definitely like

@dailydoseofsunshine2319

8 ай бұрын

That's cool but they're not sidekicks anymore

I feel like The Brave and the Bold and Into the Spiderverse will help bring back the teen sidekick into the main stream culture

I'm kind of tired of modern day storytelling when it comes to Batman. They always only focus on the same aspects of the character. They make him serious, dark and brooding. And alone. I'd say it actually holds him back. In the movies Batman is treated the same way Marvel editors treat Spiderman. With Spiderman they never allow him to age, get married, or have kids. It's the same with Batman. He remains checking the same boxes instead of letting him grow, and truly doing something different with his live action appearances. One thing we've never actually seen properly adapted was Batman as a father of Dick Grayson. Not only that, but a character like Dick Grayson opens up the world to the Teen Titans. That's a good starting point for a great DC cinematic universe. It would have made the DC cinematic universe stand out from the MCU.

I think it might also have to do with how fast kids grow up. Right now if you have a kid starting as early to mid teens. By the time the next movie comes out they’re in their 20’s. If they can make it work I would love to see sidekicks. As you said Hit girl works

@stevenscott2136

10 ай бұрын

In many ways, Hit-Girl is the lead and her father is the sidekick. Yes, he has more experience and is in charge, but she's the interesting one. And she functions just fine without her father in the sequel and replaces him with Dave... just like Batman losing a Robin and picking a new one off the street.

There's another issue with sidekicks. Their age. Actors age in real time and movies take years to make. Look at shazam. Billy was a kid in the first movie but basically all grown up by the second to the point that the Shazam actor still acting like a kid is noticable. There's a very brief window for these sidekicks to be adapted. I'd still love it if at some point we got essentially a big screen adaptation of robin's reckoning which is one of the best robin stories out there and would let you have a proper kid Dick Grayson taken in by Wayne along with a more age appropriate X years later robin who can grow into nightwing in later movies.

@klas-6

10 ай бұрын

The funny thing is that Shazam was more childish than Billy even in the first film

All of today’s kid sidekicks are from DC. Stan Lee hated kid sidekicks. He created Rick Jones as an anti-sidekick: a teenage supporting character without costume or fighting abilities. Marvel in the 60s and 70s was largely sidekick-free, despite Roy Thomas occasionally getting nostalgic about them.

@rustyshackelford4224

8 ай бұрын

Mind if you explain why sidekicks are stigmatized, please?

@janach1305

8 ай бұрын

@@rustyshackelford4224 As Stan put it, why would a superhero want to hang around with some teenager? Stan gave is young readers an actual teenage hero to identify with: Spider-Man.

@superafrikanmedialabs8237

8 ай бұрын

​@@janach1305Which was smart?

Another limiting factor is the aging of young actors. Just look at the latest Shazam movie. Shazam's entire gimick is based around a young teenager turning into a muscular adult, but now the actor playing the "younge teenager" is 21 years old. Some of the magic is just lost. A robin would get one, maybe two movies tops before its time to move onto the next one.

I think the sidekick went away because the comic book audience has grown up. When they first appeared young children were the predominant audience for comic books. Sidekicks appealed to the audience. Children could relate to children better than adults. Over time the audience grew up. Many adults who grew up on comics, like myself, still enjoy them to this day. Today's audience relates more to the adult superheroes than there sidekicks. The best example of this was the Batman and Robin series in the early 2000s. Dick Grayson is now Batman while Bruce Wayne's son, Damien, is the new Robin. The roles are now reversed. Dick Grayson was and still is the insertion character for the audience while Damien Wayne is the enigma. Batman is now Watson while Robin is now the Sherlock. Not to say that nobody related to Damien.

@rustyshackelford4224

8 ай бұрын

How come no one related to Damian Wayne? I don’t think that's really the intention of the character in the first place...

So my first Batman film was Batman & Robin, so I have a nostalgic connection to that, but even as a young kid Chris O'Donnell's Robin was one of my favourite characters to play pretend as a kid. Just because a sidekick wasn't "age appropriate" doesn't always mean that kids don't relate; the father-son dynamic is what makes the relationship interesting.

@acecashman1237

9 ай бұрын

Yeah but in that movie their relationship felt more like a brotherly one than father-son because of the smaller age gap

I think Sidekicks work at developing a character as well as giving substance to their Superhero - so when the time comes the Sidekick can go and become a hero all their own and the Superhero can move on and reach newer heights. And if the Sidekick fails then at least pilot development can still proceed from there.

I think a big factor is that there just isn't a whole lot of space in movie screenplays, when compared to comics. A sidekick has to be central to the movie's plot and themes, or they're most likely just clutter that ends up being cut.

I like legacy characters so i love sidekicks, many of them are characters that are very important to the story of comics: Dick Grayson, Donna Troy, Roy Harper, Kara Zor-el, Garth, Wally West, Bucky Barnes, Rick Jones, Cassie Lang, Kate Bishop,etc.

I was thinking more so that the idea of having kids fight crime could be viewed as problematic since it's basically child endangerment, especially with Batman and Robin. Because superhero movies have become more grounded, issues like these would probably be even more criticized too

Hot take: Gorr's daughter could potentially be a pretty good sidekick for Thor.

What killed them is IMO live action films forcing them into lead roles or outright omitting them because of the implications of a child solider/ young male companion

Of course, the big problem with teen sidekicks in live works is that it pretty immediately makes a good chunk of the audience question the adults who are taking a 12 year old out at night to beat people up in alleys or whatever.

where did the sidekick go? we've discovered that adults who really want to spend a whole lot of time with teenagers generally don't have the best interests of the teenager in mind, and are often actively harmful. child protective services took those sidekicks away from their creepy non-custodial adults.

@davidlasdon457

10 ай бұрын

It's hard to believe there was a time when social services would've allowed an unmarried adult man like Bruce Wayne to foster a teenage boy.

@jeffmartin5419

10 ай бұрын

I would argue we still have sidekicks, just not teenage sidekicks (because that doesn't really work in 'grounded' superhero stories.) Iron Man has War Machine, Capt America has Bucky then Natasha and Sam, Thor has Dr Selvig then Loki then Valkyrie, Ant-Man has the Wasp (although they end up as each other's sidekicks pretty quickly), Nick Fury has Maria... the only teenage sidekick is Kate Bishop, and the whole premise of the show is "Hawkeye gets a teenage sidekick isn't that crazy!?"

💬 _“To have someone to talk to.”_ That function of the old school sidekick was replaced by “the guy in the chair”. Robin and his sort were created in a time before mobile communication, wifi, satellite, and A.I. were ubiquitous. So now everyone has someone in their ear (like Alfred, J.A.R.V.I.S., Oracle, Microchip, Spider-Man’s friend Ned, Ant-Man’s buddies, and half the cast of the TV show Flash).

imo, Batman: Arkham handled sidekicks very well. it's a Batman series, but at times the focus shifts to the side characters who I find to be as interesting as Batman himself. I'd give anything to see that level of respect for the characters in a live-action form

Thank you for making this video 👍

I'm surprised a very obvious concern never really gets addressed: it's one thing to depict adolescents & teens risking their lives to fight, apprehend or even kill in drawings or animation, but the stewards of these profitable licenses, who already have to deter kids from donning capes and jumping off roofs, have an even harder time if it's being done in live action by someone their own age with whom they may more closely identify. That'd be a good way to give some modern day Frederick Wertham the ammo to grandstand to the genre's stultification if not outright squelching.

Great video guys! ❤

Shout out to you for crediting Jerry Robinson with helping create Batman. Not enough people talk about his contributions. Iconic characters like Batman, Robin, and Joker would’ve been totally different without him

I also believe anime plays a role in this as well. Most youth in battle manga/ anime are often kids and young teens and the adults take them very seriously. For example look at Naruto/Boruto even for genin as young as 6 they aren’t seen as children when they put on their headbands, in the ninja world when you put on a headband you are treated like an adult and will be dealt with like an adult because to adult ninjas it doesn’t matter if your opponent is 6 or 66 they can and will take your life so you have to be ready to do the same. Or dragon ball z which had goku at a young age traveling the world and battling monsters and adult martial arts masters older then him. But I’m general in manga and anime young protagonist even sidekicks are given the proper respect unlike in comics today. Also I’d say that spider man probably played the biggest role in this because he proved you didn’t need a mentor to be a hero but his character also shows what lack of leadership can do becomes when Peter gets older he does take younger heros like miles or other up and coming teen heros under his wing, he even taught a class of heros at SHIELD for a time and when he joins the avengers he leaves the street level villians like shocker or vulture for miles to deal with and steps in when guys like Doc Ock or green goblin or carnage step up because they’re more dangerous and shouldn’t be left for miles to face on his own

I think the studios are scared because comic books characters are supposed to be ageless, and kid actors age quickly in between movies, which limits how many movies you can squeeze out of them. Tom Holland can only appear a teenager for so much longer. The actor who plays Billy Batson is no longer a boy, which made Shazam 2 awkward.

There's also something to be said about the rise of legacy characters in MANY forms of media. From Miles Morales, Kamala Khan and Sam Alexander, to Wally West, Jon Kent, and the mantle of Batman kinda a few times. Hell, look no further than ACROSS THE SPIDER-VERSE

@PrincessLioness

10 ай бұрын

I’m surprised he didn’t mention that the mcu has been steadily introducing side kicks/ legacy characters. Dr strange legit had a side kick in MOM. How did he forget to mention that?

I think it’s a crime that we keep making Batman movies and not including a YOUNG Batgirl and Robin. They are my favorite Batman supporting characters and it’s annoying that whenever they are portrayed in live action, they’re like 30

@benskywalker7

10 ай бұрын

Yeah but you can easily just get like a 18-20 year old that looks 15/16

guy in the chair, love interest, best friend… all of those would be too overshadowing to a sidekick that it would take so much effort to make work and feel good integrated into the film

The problem with having kids in movie franchises is that grow up too fast! A 13 year old Dick Greyson would be 16 by the second film then 19 by the final in the trilogy. Pointless

Shoulda mentioned Wolverine, Rogue and X23 both served as excellent subversions of the sidekick trope imo.

Christian Bale did it. He said, "Not Robin on my Batman movie." Because he was salty, he lost the role to Chris O'Donnell on Batman Forever.

Batman Brave and the Bold is going to be a very interesting film. If they manage to pull it off then this might be the film that breaks the mold (hopefully).

I also have another reason why sidekicks died summed up in one word, Spiderman

Great video.

Let’s be honest. The only one that’s really mattered has always been Robin.

In The Dark Knight Rises, John Blake is actually revealed to be Robin at the end of the movie. So practicaly we had Robin on the big screen, just not as Tim Drake.

I would like to see a film do Dick Grayson properly. To me it always seemed like a matter of showing that this kid who has lost everything (like Bruce did), but doesn't have the resources Bruce did. Make the point that he's determined to seek the justice his parents deserve no matter the cost and without thinking of the consequences. Frame it as Bruce taking him in because he knows the kid will not stop and will probably end up getting himself or some other innocent person killed. I would like to point out one major error in the video. No version of Superboy has ever really been a sidekick. The first version was just a younger version of Clark himself. The Conner version was intended as a completely new hero and only occasionally teamed up with Superman. Versions 3 and 4 (Chris Kent/Lor-Zod and Jon Kent) were both kids of Superman who briefly worked with him, but quickly got disregarded by hack writers through aging up and major character changes.

I would argue that you would need a few movies to establish the main character, before you use a lot of screen time on a sidekick. Like in the Hawkeye series. Clint and the universe is established, so it can use most of the time to introduce Kate Bishop.

An other problem is that today it is much less accepted that a teenage boy spend so much time with an adult man who is not from his family. People would think about pedophilia right away. Kids also spend much more time in school and with homework. It's easier to imagine a superhero turning invisible than a teenage boy hanging out long enough to fight crime with an adult man without the parents or the authorities doing something about it.

Probably the best Batman movie is cantered around his relationship with his sidekick - Under the Red Hood

Spider-Man popularized the idea of superheroes being lone wolves

In a weird way Miles Morales in into the spiderverse was Parker’s sidekick.

The Sidekick idea is out of fashion. The new popular thing is "The Guy in the Chair" it's even referenced in the spiderman movies as an important asset to the superhero.

The MCU have recently introduced two young sidekicks but they did so in the last installment of each respective franchise: "Thor: Love and Thunder" and "Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania" so who knows if well ever see them again.

And the hilarious thing is, kid super heroes are very popular and successful. Especially in cartoons and animes and the irony is a lot of the stories these kid super heroes are involved in are honestly deeper and more interesting then anything Hollywood would try and do.

@rustyshackelford4224

8 ай бұрын

What do you mean?

@RikkuTakanashi

8 ай бұрын

@@rustyshackelford4224 A lot of super hero shows/comics/movies aimed towards adults are filled with blood, dirty scenes and jokes, and have a generally negative atmosphere and use all that as filler in place of actual good story telling. You don't need to explore Bruce's traumatic past and why he is how he is if your focusing on him beating people bloody. A lot of the teen and younger shows involving the side kicks can't rely on those adult oriented gimmicks and have two main paths. Teen Titans is prime example. The, imo, good version of TT, the original, had its fun, zany moments, but it also would have fairly deep moments and yes, even some moments only the parents would get. The original went the good story telling route. The remake? TTG... Is brain rot... There is some semblance of story telling involved but it's the kind of show you purely watch to just laugh at the stupid or have as background noise. But, even a show like TTG still has a semblance of story and direction without relying on adult related gimmicks. (Though, tbf, they rely heavily on meme gimmicks.) Basically, aside from darker remasterings of sidekick related shows, most do focus on the deeper side of the characters instead of just cheap filler gimmicks. And let's not get into Anime with the depth they explore with their young hero characters. Even their most childish magical girls have some depth.

The next batman movie (not counting Robert Patterson) will be a Damien Wayne story, and apparently a good portion of the Bat family will exist. So that should hopefully help the problem

You forgot to mention that there’s technically a Robin in the Dark Knight trilogy, or more specifically, in The Dark Knight Rises. He just doesn’t really act as you’d expect Robin to. But it is implied that he takes up Batman’s role by the end of the movie.

And then we have Shazam... which has a kid hero and FIVE kid sidekicks Also didn't we get Stature (Cassie Lang) recently in Ant-Man 3?

@PrincessLioness

10 ай бұрын

⁠Thor has a side kick now (Love), Ant man has his daughter, Dr.Strange legitimately had a kid sidekick, one of the alien kids joined joined the new GOTG team at the end. The mcu is doing this and the video doesn’t mention it at all.

I think that a modern day Robin would be good for DC in their movies. All of them have their merit but I would like to see Jason and have him later turn into red hood. It could easily be a duology of movies.

6:23 Thanks to the Titans show, kinda 3 out of 4. This is why we need a Tim Drake or Jarro story.

*You forgot:* Robin appears in the Dark Knight Trilogy. He's played by Joseph Gordon Levitt. They literally reveal that he's an orphan and his real name is "Robin". He also figures out who Batman really is with his own detective skills, and finds the Bat-cave after Bruce retires; setting him up to be Nightwing. I don't know why so many people overlook this.

Truth be told, the Lego Batman movie has a great version of Robin with the youthful innocence. Plus, the Lego Batman movie is LEGITIMATELY excellent, funny enough.

I was surprised the video didn’t hit on how the mentor/mentee dynamic with a teenager has already been shown as viable with the MCU’s spider man. I could see a similar dynamic of Peter Parker and Tony Stark recreated for a Batman/Robin or the such

@hiptobedad

10 ай бұрын

Agree - using the sidekick trope to introduce a new character that then branches out on their own definitely works. I think Nolan was exploring this with the Joseph Gordon Levitt character in Dark Knight Rises. Though i enjoyed it, I think MsMarvel would have benefited from that. It will be interesting to see if she is treated like a sidekick or partner in The Marvels.

@PrincessLioness

10 ай бұрын

I’m surprised he didn’t mention that the mcu has been steadily introducing side kicks/ legacy characters. Dr strange legit had a side kick in MOM. How did he forget to mention that?

@PrincessLioness

10 ай бұрын

@@hiptobedadt’s not just Ms. marvel. Thor has a side kick now (Love), Ant man has his daughter, Dr.Strange legitimately had a kid sidekick, one of the alien kids joined joined the new GOTG team at the end. The mcu is doing this and the video doesn’t mention it at all.

It was actually the result of a larger social change. During and following the world wars it was considered normal for boys to admire/crush on older heroic men. So, Robin, Jimmy Olsen, etc.. During the Fifties the focus shifted to the nuclear family. Boys spending time with older non family members wasn't encouraged or modeled as heroic. So they shifted to more team dynamics to build readership.

The mcu has started including groups of children who help the protagonist in the latest movies as a replacement for sidekicks

I thought Superboy was just Superman when he was a boy, not a sidekick.

1:16 wait I'm confused, why did you use Steve Ditko pic for Bill Finger? Or am I missing something?

It seems like movie studios would rather just pair two superheroes together rather than add sidekicks. That way you still get the conversation partner, but they can also get fans excited. We’ve seen Spidey-Strange, Spidey-Iron Man, Thor-Hulk, Wanda-Vision, etc.

Antman 3 had his daughter as a sidekick. Thor 4 added a kid sidekick at the very end, but there's probably no future appearance planned. Carol Danvers is getting a sidekick in The Marvels soon.

@PrincessLioness

10 ай бұрын

Dr.Strange as well. There’s many examples this video didn’t. Peter parker as well was like a side kick to Iron man.

Robin is the only former sidekick in Titans. Maaaaybe Donna, too. Aqualad was barely in it.

I find it strange that James Gunn is having Damien as the first Batman sidekick in his DCU.

@Magdalena8008s

10 ай бұрын

How is it strange? It actually makes the most sense if you know the character..

@anubusx

10 ай бұрын

@@Magdalena8008s I thought they would introduce him much later.

@AhtuMondello

10 ай бұрын

It actually makes sense

@gagemartin7207

10 ай бұрын

He’s not though dicks already nightwing in the dcu

In movies an adult battling super powered baddies with a 12 year old is child endangerment.

I love how when you hover over the video on desktop it cuts to a part with Chris O'Donnell written on the screen in big text. So the thumbnail says 'who killed the sidekick' and when you hover it answers 'Chris O'Donnell' lol

Actually, part of the success of Superman and Lois is Alex Garfin being Superboy.

@jedgould5531

10 ай бұрын

Yes! And kind of, Jimmy Olson, with both Clark and Superman checking in as a father occasionally. 😊

“Tim drakes robin” excuse but if there’s going to be a on screen robin it better be Dick Greyson or Jason Todd. Both are way more interesting as characters than tim drake.

You missed the very obvious recent example of a sidekick in multiple big screen live-action movies. MCU Spider-Man was essentially (more or less) Ironman’s sidekick in “Civil War”, “Homecoming”, “Infinity War” and “Endgame”. And Spider-Man very much became a legacy-Ironman (in all but name) in “Far From Home”. Although Spider-Man being a legacy-Ironman has all been reset after the events of “No Way Home”.

After Robin, my favorite sidekick is Aqualad, mostly because I saw episodes of the 60s Aquaman cartoon series on Boomerang a lot as a kid.

So teen superheroes like Spider-Man and Ms Marvel can be brought into film, but the kid sidekicks have to either be aged up or deleted from it? Half of Batman's identity revolves around the Robin sidekick. It's more or less one of the reasons why Batman in film isn't working. Yeah, the Dark Knight Trilogy was good, but come on! What would you rather see? Batman going off against these criminals and supervillains with his adult superhero colleagues or Batman with one of the Robins, played by a child actor, by his side as he faces off against his rogues gallery?

We’re getting a new Robin soon!

MCU had Hawkeye and Kate Bischop

@1:16 That's not Bill Finger, that's Steve Ditko, the co-creator of Spider-Man.

I feel like this is only an issue in the movies. On tv we have had. Roy Harper on arrow, Wally west in the flash, thunder and lightning in black lightning, and you mentioned not having superboy but we currently have him in Superman and Lois. Hell stargirl had her own show. (Though I don’t know if she is considered a sidekick)

Are we sure that it was just the Adam West Batman movie and Batman and Robin? I distinctly remember Joseph Gordon-Levitt being Robin in the third of the Christopher Nolan movies.

Spider-Man was basically Iron Man's sidekick in the MCU for a bit...

James Gunn giving us Damian Wayne Robin is my most excited DCU plan. I still hope Reeves gives Pattinson Greyson but I doubt that’ll happen

@greatwuta

10 ай бұрын

No, one Robin is too many

I know it's been said before, but I think the other issue is trying to explain why a grown man wants to hang around teen boy, with no prior relationship. It gives off creeper vibes, especially in this day and age. Again, that might go back to your suspension of disbelief. I'm surprised you didn't bring up Robin's portrayal in Dark Knight Rises. As if drawing the bird symbol wasn't a hint enough, the movie all of a sudden drops at the end that the rookie detective had the nickname of Robin growing up. Again, the only way the movie is comfortable with Batman having a sidekick is having Robin be a grown up rookie detective helping Batman off on the side.

Could it be that sidekicks died because of changes in morals? People these days are not as keen as those in the past in having kids or raising a successor.

1:16 bro, i didn't know it was possible to tarnish two legacies at the same time lmao That's Steve Ditko my boy, not Bill Finger, (he was the artist of Spider-Man)