you would think that after the Jules Bianchi accident they would have learned their lesson but apparently not. and there are so many similarities between that accident and the potential accident that could have happened here

@mykswappedescortmk2

Жыл бұрын

I kinda disagree and here’s why….. The FIA did what they could to neutralise the race. The SC was on track and double waved yellows were being waved so even if Gasly didn’t know what had happened, there were proper safety protocols in place to warn a driver there was a hazard ahead. Jules Bianchi lost control of his car under double waved yellows at 76mph and tragedy struck so why would Gasly decide to pass the scene of Carlos’ crash at around 130mph? Had the tractor not been on the circuit when he passed, he was still putting the lives of the marshals that make motorsport possible, at risk. I agree the potential for a serious accident when a tractor is on track is high, but that risk is neutralised by drivers doing their best to drive in a way that’s keeping them and everyone else safe when passing the scene of a crash that he knew was there from passing it 1 lap earlier. Many lessons still need to be learned and that’s on both sides so to lay the blame solely with the FIA is failing to address where Pierre should have done things differently himself.

@Coach_Shiner

Жыл бұрын

@@mykswappedescortmk2 did you not see the onboard pictures? Pierre can't Fucking see 5 feet in front of him. How can he see an unlit tractor?!

@mykswappedescortmk2

Жыл бұрын

@@Coach_Shiner exactly why he should’ve been going much slower. That’s my point exactly.

@AD-df5tm

Жыл бұрын

The biggest similarity is that Gasly was also speeding under yellow flags.

@edwb5647

Жыл бұрын

@@Coach_Shiner my guy if you send it at 200 km/h in poor visibility you can see things around you for just milliseconds. But if you are going at 70km/h your brain can realise the situation, react quicker, see the things around you better and faster. Neither Bianchi and Gasly did the same method and look at the consequences... imagine driving in a highway in fog condition. Do you drive fast at 130 km/h while saying "I cAnNoT sEe A tHiNg!1!1!" or do you go slowly so you can react to anything that happened around you that you can't see but you can easily avoid thanks to the slow speed? I leave this question to you

Imagine being a new fan and this is the first race you see... It was confusing for us, it was impossible to understand for them.

@awsomestleaperd78

Жыл бұрын

What was confusing about it

@StefanVerkerknl

Жыл бұрын

@@awsomestleaperd78 Somebody who just escaped death being punished I guess?

@awsomestleaperd78

Жыл бұрын

@@StefanVerkerknl i don't think any new fan even noticed that that had happened, So 'impossible to understand' doesn't really correlate.

@srijanvarmaofficial5657

Жыл бұрын

​@@awsomestleaperd78 not a new fan but i didn't notice it too the race was already shit enough

@awsomestleaperd78

Жыл бұрын

@@srijanvarmaofficial5657 ...the race was great.

the tractor should never have been out on a live race track, regardless of what driver is where or how slow, the FIA clearly never learn

@emilwulff2073

Жыл бұрын

Ik

@thesaint5991

Жыл бұрын

gasly should have never driven that fast regardless of if tractor was on track clearly drivers never learn.

@patriotic_car5944

Жыл бұрын

@@thesaint5991 yeah drivers should never drive fast under double yellow but there was a bloody tractor out on an active track do you not remember 2014?

@filippomanzini6741

Жыл бұрын

@@thesaint5991 you can acquaplaning even at 70-80kmh and die if you hit a tractor

@greenlantern7959

Жыл бұрын

There was a tractor on track at Monza 2022, under SC, and nobody blinked an eye except to complain that the race finished under SC.

I think that, under dry conditions, recovery vehicles should only be brought out if the safety car has collected all cars. In wet conditions, the session should be red flagged and only restarted if everything is cleared. Also, these recovery vehicles need much more lights to add more visibilty.

@nert-13

Жыл бұрын

Exactly what I would say, except add that an 80 km/h limiter be imposed in safety car conditions, until all debris is cleared up. VSC, safety car, etc. All 80km/h

@F1ll1nTh3Blanks

Жыл бұрын

For me, it's blanket, if industrial machinery is on the tarmac, cars shouldn't be. Ever, imo.

"No respect for the life of the drivers no respect for the Jules memory incredible 😡😡😡😡😡" -Phillipe Bianchi

@anamacklis2355

3 ай бұрын

sad but true :(

I'm still surprised that none of these recovery vehicles have lights on them.

@simonkevnorris

Жыл бұрын

They do have lights just not high his ones. But I agree the lights need to be reviewed.

Amazing job to provide such a clear and detailed analysis that fast! FIA isn't really doing enough to prevent these situations, this has to change

Everybody seems to forget the LED panel(s) didn't show a >> double

@thesaint5991

Жыл бұрын

if only the cars had a LED display that provide instant messages regarding double-wave yellow SC and red flag details ... oh wait they fkin do

@StefanVerkerknl

Жыл бұрын

@@thesaint5991 Question is: did the double yellow show up on his dash? I don't think so. Otherwise he probably would have slowed down. And I also think that the status on the dash is the same as the LED lights on the side of the track.

@AD-df5tm

Жыл бұрын

@@StefanVerkerknl dude, it had been double yellows for like a whole lap. The freaking SC was out.

@Argosh

Жыл бұрын

@@AD-df5tm the SC comes with required time deltas... So yeah, he followed those...

They had zero respect for Jules, they will never learn. #ForzaJules

@thesaint5991

Жыл бұрын

if there was 0 respect halo would never have existed so stfu...

@Hi-db5cd

Жыл бұрын

Wasn’t it more of a mistake?

@Argosh

Жыл бұрын

@@Hi-db5cd a mistake? They put a tractor on track. At Suzuka. Where Bianchi died because of a tractor in a gravel pit. They might as well have put the damn thing on his grave for all the shits they give.

@Hi-db5cd

Жыл бұрын

@@Argosh that’s for sure. But I don’t think they intend to have a loss of respect for him. It’s just disorganisation.

@Argosh

Жыл бұрын

@@Hi-db5cd their intent is irrelevant. You don't have to intend to insult someone. Their negligence is the insult. It shows they don't care. Jules is dead, so he's no longer relevant, no longer profitable...

You are absolutely right. FIA really sucks at this moment. At Singapore we saw marshall still on the track and race director just got green flags and the leading pair were approaching this turn, where the marshals were. That was dangerous and this situation in Japan was dangerous not only for marshalls but for drivers too. For me as track marshall who been in Austria GP this year. I know the risks but It's scary what can happen to me because of bad race management and F1.

Ridiculous and it wasn't just gasly, I think the whole grid went past it because Riccardo also drove past it

@angieng8633

Жыл бұрын

Yes, Max's onboard had the tractor there. So did Perez who commented on radio why is there a crane on the track, they already lost Jules. Lando Norris onboard also has image of the same tractor. Norris tweeted that it's unacceptable.

@SamiiTubeHD

Жыл бұрын

@@angieng8633 Under SC, it would be standard practice to do so... I get that the weather is terrible and causes issues with the visibility of the vehicle, but it is primarily Gasly's fault for not obeying double-waived yellows / SC.

@AD-df5tm

Жыл бұрын

Of course they did, it was under safety car. They always bring out machinery to remove cars under the safety car. I swear half the people outraged by this have never watched a race before. If Gasly was driving like he should have been (under SC speed) there would have been no issue.

@jiasd123

Жыл бұрын

@@AD-df5tm you obviously don't know what you're talking about because this wouldn't have been the topic of discussion otherwise

@lamp2391

Жыл бұрын

@@AD-df5tm bianchi went off at less than 100mph, speed is not a factor in those situations

Thanks for your quick quick work.

This is definitely the one track that something like this doesn't need to happen. The FIA needs more consistency

The big difference between here and Monza is that the field had caught up to the safety car, so they are all expected to be in a single file under dictated speeds. At suzuka however the cars were still catching up to the queue, I don't understand how this error could have been made, its concerning really that mistakes are still so prevalent even with experienced race directors on the helm.

Very concise! You describe what we're all thinking. Can't believe some commentators are blaming Gasly.

@maxb4085

Жыл бұрын

Gasly is partly to blame though. He was going too quick even if it was only Sainzs car on the track, his team also probably should have said there was a crane on track and to be careful through that section and not go 250kph. And I am not saying what the FIA did was right, the crane shouldn't be out while the race is under SC conditions and not everyone is behind it but Gasly shouldn't be free from some blame of the incident.

@BrendanP

Жыл бұрын

@@maxb4085 Pierre has no blame. When he was in that area of the tractor he was going SC speeds because he was under the SC. It changed to a red flag as soon as he got to the tractor, which Pierre did not see. Slapping a penalty on him is just so silly.

Matt you near enough summed it up. Safety first is the most important thing

Excellent commentary.

👍🏼 Short and clear explanation post. And a new subscriber.

There was a clip of the on board of Gasly showing the Marshall having to move away from on coming Gasly unexpectedly. This is definitely really damagerous.

@thesaint5991

Жыл бұрын

yea you would think a redflag a double waved yellow and a fkin tractor would slow gasly but he still fkin open throttle and passed by the next tractor where marshals where picking up sainz's car. Dude was busy shouting on radio instead of slowing the fk down.

@EarthKuma

Жыл бұрын

@@thesaint5991 I don't think that is fair to say. I don't think the tractor should have been on the track in that condition with low visibility. And if you look at Gasly on board you can barely see anything until it is too late. The red flag literally came out 1 seconds before Gasly reach the tractor and he was in the turn at that time and was looking at the turn that is bearing right where the red flag was on the left. So it looks like Gasly did not even notice the red flag until after passing the tractor. When Gasly enter the hairpin it was still on safety car warning on the electronic board. In addition, the penalty was for after Gasly had pass the tractor where he was most likely distracted, since he basically though he could have died.

@deerlord2363

Жыл бұрын

@@thesaint5991 Pierre was following the delta, this isn't his fault. They shouldn't have sent out that tractor, especially in those conditions. They didn't learn from Jules' tragedy...

@AD-df5tm

Жыл бұрын

@@deerlord2363 no he wasn't. He passed an accident under double yellows in 5th fucking gear. He was later clocked at 250km/h under the red flag. Stop trying to excuse his insanely dangerous driving. He is honestly lucky he only got a grid penaltiy for this.

@Argosh

Жыл бұрын

@@AD-df5tm he already was slower than the FIA time delta... They wanted him to pass the tractor 7 seconds before the red flag going even faster... And he's not driving your mum's fiat punto, going 250 while in a heartbroken rage about the FIA and under adrenaline because he just could've died is maybe a bit more understandable than you'd think... That's the normal speed they use to catch up to the safety car and the time deltas...

Not only was a tractor on track, a marshall was on track as well and almost get hit

The quality and the speed of production is amazing.

Hi Matt. Potential video idea. I would love to see you try and make a diy pit board or one of those boards they drive to at the end with numbers 1 2 and 3.

I might be wrong but didnt Jules lose his life at suzuka because he hit like a tractor? If so then youd think they learned from that eh?

@jaywright9924

Жыл бұрын

He did which is why this incident is doubly insulting and serious

@simonkevnorris

Жыл бұрын

While that is true he went off behind a safety car (the track was under yellow flags at the very least) and was trying to catch up with the pack.

If Abu Dhabi 2021 was bad this is worse for their public image. Showing that you don't care about the drivers really damages the 'safety' aspect of f1. P.S. This is probably the best video I have seen going indepth about today

I don't understand why Gasly kept such high speed through the scene of the crash, even if the tractor had not been there. He obviously knew where the crash happened, so slowing down and taking it easy when driving by just makes sense. He wasn't far behind the SC queue and would've easily caught up with it even if he slowed down. I also thought it was a pretty obvious red flag situation. I was surprised it took them that long to deploy it.

@Argosh

Жыл бұрын

Because he's required to stay within the safety car deltas...

@tar2740

Жыл бұрын

@@Argosh At all time safety has to come before delta times.

@CaptainJEEERRYY

Жыл бұрын

@@Argosh that's during VSC, not SC. And it means the driver has to go slow, not fast.

@Argosh

Жыл бұрын

@@CaptainJEEERRYY that is incorrect. The almost identical regulations apply under both VSC and SC: "No car may be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person at any time whilst the safety car is deployed. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane." "All competing cars must reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart. In order to ensure that drivers reduce speed sufficiently, from the time at which all Competitors have been sent the “SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED” message using the official messaging system until the time that each car crosses the first safety car line for the second time, drivers must stay above the minimum time set by the FIA ECU at least once in each marshalling sector and at both the first and second safety car lines (a marshalling sector is defined as the section of track between each of the FIA light panels). The stewards may impose either of the penalties under Article 54.3a), 54.3b), 54.3c) or 54.3d) on any driver who fails to stay above the minimum time as required by the above."

@CaptainJEEERRYY

Жыл бұрын

​@@Argosh Sure, the rules may be pretty similar, but you're misunderstanding some important stuff. 1. "drivers must stay above the minimum time set by the FIA ECU at least once in each marshalling sector and at both the first and second safety car lines" -- They have to be positive on the delta = slow, not fast. This applies to the entire VSC period, but when it comes to the SC, it only applies to the queue. It doesn't apply to a driver who's catching up with the queue. Gasly was going fast because he was catching up. So the whole delta thing is irrelevant. And if it did apply to drivers catching up, he would've broken the rule because he was going fast, not slow. Every lapped driver would break the rule when they unlap themselves and try to catch the queue again. 2. Driving slow at that location at that time would not have been "unnecessarily slowly" because there would've been a good reason for it. And going at racing speed through there is what I would definitely call "potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person".

Agreed, Matt!

You’re right Matt, it really angered me that that was Sky’s response to the incident, I do agree that there isn’t enough incentive for driver to slow under double yellows but the whole point of this incident is the fact that a tractor recovering a car that had aquaplaned was on the racetrack within the white line with no warning or no protection for the drivers, totally totally unacceptable, one death was too much you would’ve thought the FIA would have learnt from 2014. Some people are talking about the fact that it was a SC, however Pierre was under his SC delta so he followed the rules as laid out by the FIA

In the FIA report they said tractors should have a shroud around the tyres. That was never implemented.

Well said.

The fact that this isn't even close to the first time since is more concerning than the fact that its happened.

Safety car situations are flawed for several reasons, one of which is when someone is not in the que and thus playing catch up. You also see this weird and dangerous situation very often when we swap from VSC to SC and cars have to speed up to catch the train, even going past the location of whatever has just caused the incident. They have deltas, but there should just be a very restricted and hard speed limit in the zone of the incident itself at ALL times

Well, here is my (controversial) view on the Gasly-tractor-Incident: Obviously, a accident would have been very dangerous at that point as we learned in the past and I don't want to play that down in any way. I also understand the emotions of the drivers whose life can depend on such decisions. However, I think this is also a bit of an example of the people wanting to blame the FIA again. Surely, Gasly wanted to catch up to the safety car queue and we see drivers do that every race. That is understandable, but as the data shows, he was driving significantly faster than the other drivers (~250kph, ~30s faster in that 2. sector from what I understand. Please correct me if I'm wrong!), which should also be considered, as a significant reduction in pace is actually mandatory and on the onboard video you do see the blinking light signal before the affected track section turning red and that he would have had enough time to at least slow down more. In fact, the other drivers drove past that tractor too in the same lap, the difference being that they drove past behind the safety car and thus were much slower, and none of them complained about the tractor. (Many of them did, but not in that moment as far as I know, but only after they took in Gasly's reaction and after they thought about it out of the car. Again, please let me know otherwise!) So I kind of feel like Gasly took that risk of driving fast and he is responsible for that decision, may it have been a conscious or unconscious one. In addition, having a tractor to recover a car on track when the race is neutralised is not unusual and we have seen that in the past many times. On other tracks, I never heard people complain about that since it keeps the show going, even under similar circumstances. Imagine a driver being injured and needing medical assistance. The ambulance/medical car would also need to enter the track while the safety car might still be leading the field around the track. Many people also asked the question if the tractor needed to be there at all while cars were still on track. In the case of an ambulance, there surely is no question about it and on the one hand, why should it be different for a tractor? To the other drivers, it does not make a difference what vehicle they should slow down for. On the other hand though, it seems to me as if the race control already knew there would possibly be a red flag when the tractor was dispatched and I especially think, that, considering the conditions, it may have been better to first evaluate other options to find a better solution than to dispatch a badly visible tractor into the spray and fog. Nonetheless, that's partially what yellow/red flags and the safety car are for. I also hear people argue, that Gasly may be distracted by his cockpit display and he does not see well due to the weather conditions. But isn't that all the more reason to slow down if you can't handle the conditions safely, in particular during a red flag? And obviously, he knew where the crash happened and that a tractor or marshalls could be on track to recover Sainz's car sooner or later. Hence he should have slowed down more regardless of if he knew there already was a tractor on track or not, because there could always be one the next time he goes around if there wasn't one. I should also add, that, while the drivers want the FIA/race control to take every single safety meassure, which is totally understandable and justified and the right way to go in my opinion, they should also ensure the safety of not only themselves but also the other drivers and marshalls by respecting the rules of slowing down during double yellow/red flags or safety car periods, which we often see them not doing enough or not at all in some cases. I do see that they feel the pressure to do that though in order to gain a competetive advantage, so maybe the FIA should be more harsh when it comes to penalties regarding such violations. I don't think a gentlemans'-agreement-kind-of-rule that is not strictly enforced will ever work with this matter, because some people will always go for an advantage, just as in any competitive sport. I admittedly do have to say, the track section the tractor was on is very unfortunate and I am quite shocked how badly and late you can see it on the onboard videos. I would think a vehicle like that in such conditions had to be much more visible and more foglights would be necessary. This barely visible from the far, the tractor should not have been there without more lighting. From what I can see, there also was no sign that, different than the lap before, there now was a tractor on track. (I do not know if white flags are the ones to be used here, but they are better than nothing.) Additionally, the drivers association already complained about a similar incident in Singapore beforehand. I also want to emphasize again, that I am all for safety and that nothing can ease the pain of the tragic accident of 2014, particularly for the friends and family which Gasly is a part of. But I think some people need to see things from multiple points of view sometimes and realise the FIA isn't always *completely* at fault for everything. In my opinion, Gasly didn't behave the way he should have and is partially to blame for the drama about this incident. He also isn't the first one to behave this way, nor will he be the last. I do not want to exonerate the FIA though. They definitely handled things wrong too. And this is like the millionth wrong decision race control made in the past years that endangered the safety of the drivers. They need to step up to their mistakes and change something, but so do the rules and drivers regarding this issue. You do not have to agree with me and are entitled to your own opinion of course, but if you choose to reply, I ask you to remain kind, objective and factual. :)

@l.s.m.o3129

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree with your analysis. Just one thing should be added to your observation. His engineer should have warned him for the recovery wheel loader in the coming part of the track in stead of saying him where Zhou was driving in turn 13! All other drivers were driving around 30 km/h past the wheel loader behind the SC , consinderably slower driving and more driving on the right part of the track. Gasly was driving >200km/h past the wheel loader. Of course a lot of factors play part in this situation. But in my perspective more to blame GAS and his (team) engineer than the fia or the Marshalls.

@user-eo4nl4yt9t

Жыл бұрын

@@l.s.m.o3129 Yes, you're totally right. I also was a bit confused when I listened to the team radio why he doesn't say anything about that...

I think a crane between that long sweeper and the long straight to 130R and other strategic locations where 2 different sections of track are close together could solve the problem of vehicles needing to go on track. This was potentially more dangerous than the incident with Jules because the vehicle Jules hit wasn't even on track. True, Pierre could have aquaplaned at any speed.

Immediately when I saw Gasly tractor incident trending I thought of Jules. Thought the FIA would have learned there lesson by this point.

Gasly was allegedly -9 on the delta given on his wheel. People being critical of him have no perspective. He knew danger was there, but he was not expecting a full stationary tractor. Limited visibility, engineers barking in his ears, and the flags changing - yes he's supposed to be a top class driver, but he's not robot that can react perfectly to the situation.

Good lord, did they not learn anything from the Jules incident

Finally convinced my step dad to sit down and watch a race with me (Australian so we could actually watch Suzuka while the sun was still up) and this race understandably put him off of watching another race. The FIA really need to pull their heads in.

I’m really surprised by how Sky showed this all. Took them 30 minutes to even start to talk about it and then came out appearing to put blame on Gasly (who’s also got a penalty point for it). Considering how keen they were to wave a red flag previously it seems madness than one wasn’t shown until a whole lap after the crash

Even Sainz's off was almost collected by a Mercedes. That reminded me of Hubert Spa 2019 when a car that's already been hit, damaged and had its crash structure crumpled gets hit again at a high speed with very little cushioning for drivers leading to extreme g-forces and Hubert's sad passing. Cars will need to be better, bigger, but still lighter yesterday.

Where can I find the video shown as a screenshot at 1:08?

Very well done

just some really bright lights on those tractors would already solve the issue. The tractor being there is normal procedure, it happens every time a car crashes and there is a safety car. here it is an issue because Gasly just simply couldn't see the tractor due to the weather, some lights would show where this vehicle is making it no different than a recovery vehicle on track in clear weather like usual

I think there need to be a better indication for the drivers to see where an incident took place so the drivers can slow down. Of course the tractor should not have been on the track, but what if the tractor was the medical car or an ambulance. These vehicles need to have a possibility to go an incident right after a crash.

I agree, the FIA clearly not looking at the bigger picture here, don't they remember what happend 8 years ago at the exact same circuit?! I was watching the highlights on Channel 4 today and all you could see was just rain and spray, if we can't see what is ahead with a slightly high up advantage, how can the driver's lower down in the cars?

According to the rules under double waved yellows you should be able to stop immediately. In this case he was going way too fast. Yes, there shouldn’t have been a tractor on the track, but why does no one care about the lives of the marshals? What if there was no tractor but he hit a marshal at that speed and killed them?

Apart from the Gasly incident but I think Hamilton almost collected a track marshall during the SC period, just shows how imcompitant the stewarding can be sometimes.

Very informative and well explained! Of course, deploying the tractor at this point is completely unnecessary. On the other hand I see the responsibility on the drivers/engineers side, too. This vehicle could also have been an ambulance to rescue a driver after a major impact. In this case marshalls also need to help the crashed driver as soon as possible and enter the track under SC conditidions.

Paul and Johnny shutting down Simon saying when he said it wasn’t gaslys fault at the sky pad was a shambles

Clear explanation. The situation would have been the safest if all cars were again present in the pitlane after the accident. Whoever ordered the tractor to go in earlier is at fault irrespective of the speed drivers were doing. At any speed, a tractor on the track poses a clear and present danger under any circumstance, particularly this one in Japan.

The team can tell the driver EXACTLY where the crash was, so the driver knows where to be extremly cautious. He was way back of the pack so plenty of time to get the news and drive safe

You have drivers complaining about visibility, aquaplaning and struggling to stay on track… and we’re putting tractors on tracks. Phillipe Bianchi said it best, they are ignoring Jules and what happened with him. KC and PDR blaming Pierre is wrong and utterly disrespectful to Pierre as a driver feels like they are punishing him for an FIA made mistake. Truly disappointing

I'm amazed he could make out it was a tractor in those conditions.

the regretted Bianchi lost his life in the same conditions 8 years ago at suzuka....

FIA issues UNO reverse card : Nope, not my fault.

This issue is more important than that "championship". FIA will try to burry this

Here is my thoughts, of course it's unacceptable to see a tractor, especially in this track under raining condition. It's not the first time the FIA / Race Control / Track Marshall thing SC or VSC or Red Flag = 100 % safe track. Remember Monza during FP in 2019 or 2020, or Perez in Monaco 2019. Or even this year in Monza with lapped cars allowed the overtake the SC while a crane was between the two Lesmo curves. But, drivers are also to blame (not particularly Gasly today) As a track Marshall on the side of the track, I'm often shocked by the pace of F1 under double yellow / VSC / SC (before catching the queue) and even red flag sometime. With that dumb shit of delta time, F1 are still very fast and can exceed 200 kph while marshals are on track. Sometimes in other spot where the main crash occurred, to clean the track for example. My solutions : - FCY / code 80 like in other categories instead of VSC / delta time. All the drivers limited at 80kph during hazard on track. Of course, F1 must keep temperatures on the tires / brake and it's maybe not that simple in F1 than in GT racing. Or - Pit lane closed during FCY / SC. Drivers will not be tempted to rush to the pits or to the queue while there is dangers on track.

It was insane... Something crazy happened...

Preach!

Absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable under those circumstances

The FIA doesn't care about it's drivers. Greed is unbelievably prevalent in f1. End racism is only convenient when the FIA and f1 don't get paid for it ie azerbaijan and turkey.

Although I agree with some of the comments made about how Gasly was still driving too quickly despite the double yellow flags and under the safety car condition, the tractor / crane should not have been immediately deployed like that. We all saw the dash cams of the drivers and they have low to almost zero visibility in that very moment. On top of that, the tractors / cranes / recovery trucks should have ample warning lights around it and the 1 deployed here hardly have 1. Even if they drive at only 100kph, the road condition could still prove to be dangerous with all the aquaplaning - 1 wrong turn and it can cost another life, not just that of the driver, but even for the marshalls. I don’t understand why they didn’t wait for all the cars to safely return to their pitstops or be boxed.

8 years after the accident you'd think they'd learn their lesson

what you failed to point out is teams have admitted they only found out about the tractor being on track from their drivers

100% agreed it was totally unacceptable

On top of that, Gasly was following the delta time, like it has always been under SC conditions. Stewards should know that.

@tar2740

Жыл бұрын

At all time safety has to come before delta times.

@richardmillhousenixon

Жыл бұрын

@@tar2740 Delta times are literally for safety as it has been pointed out many times to you elsewhere in this comment section.

@tar2740

Жыл бұрын

@@richardmillhousenixon What kind of safety is it when you have to do 200 kph on a wet track and you know there was an accident, possible debri/F1 car on/beside track, just to come within the delta time? The safety feature of delta times is that the cars stay close to each other so they don't have to do 200 kph to close the gap again. The delta time has a use only when the cars are bunched up.

I can see why teams didnt run full wet tyres no matter how bad the conditions were. With so many high speed corners those full wet tyres with those deep grooves will overheat alot and become useless very quickly.

I mean this is not even the first time it has happened in the past few years. There was no noise about it but there was a tractor out during one of the FP sessions for Turkey in 2020. It was just very wet and slippery, no major visibility issues so that's prob why it wasn't mentioned but it's one of the main things that led up to the start of Micheal Massi criticism. If the FIA keeps making those Massi era mistakes, then what's the point of sackings and structure changes. The FIA is a mess, across different motorsports too. They have to have massive changes or someone is going to die and it's going to be too late to change that.

They also gotta make track vehicles more visible because in Nascar the second there's a caution all the track vehicles light up like Christmas trees even when they stay behind the wall. Also they shouldn't have been racing in those conditions in the first place

I think Gasly should have been wayyyyyyyyy slower, as he knows its a dangerous part of the circuit as hes seen a crashed car there before, and the track conditions were also horrendous, but there should’ve been more warning about the tractor

The FIA has to write a specific condition "yellow flag double warning: tractor on the circuit" and this would perfectly tell the drivers what kind of extra precautions they has to get.

completey agree.

Pierre was respecting the delta, the crane shouldn't have been on the track as cars were still going round, the red flag should've been thrown earlier, or the crane deployed later when all cars were neutralised. There should never be a crane on the track when some cars are still going fast, especially not in the wet. After the Jules Bianchi incedent 8 years ago we shouldn't find ourselves in the same situation. R.I.P. Jules

It’s a tractor, on Suzuka, in the rain, and the driver nearly involved was French.

Fia should actually impose a speed limit on a sector sector communicated to thedrivers by race engineers where marshals or medics are rushing to help with a crash or simply a red flag. Yellow flags, SC or VSC are hardly always observed by drivers.

“It’s all for TV people” - Kurt Busch

All cars should have been bunched up before they proceed to drive a recovery vehicle onto the track Two additional measures they need to take is big orange lights on the recovery vehicle even for sunny conditions. And mandatory team updates to the driver telling them where the stopped vehicle is SPECIFICALLY, where the pack is (if they are behind like Gasly was) if there are marshals on track and if there is viable debris Gasly wasn't blameless for this incident. He was speed for sure but the rules allow that. However his team failed to tell him where Sainz's car was or any small details like that This is a team, driver and FIA failure

Gasly was speeding on another part of the circuit, not where the tractor was located.

Don’t forget that there was a tractor on Vettel’s onboard as well, and I believe this was before the red flag

I guess their minimum driver deaths before the FIA reacts to these issues is not just one dead driver.

why the tractor doesn't have any hazzard light?

Even at monza I personally don’t believe having the recovery vehicle on track was acceptable

Fia- a cowardly crew to punish him for speaking up. What a dis functional outcome from a leadership perspective. Punish the driver for speaking up?

I never understood why noone said anything about the tractor on track in Abu Dhabi last year's after a blind corner with cars on track still

I will fully admit I barely know a thing about F1 but for a sport that pushes the envelope of innovation and is so high tech that even their steering wheels are more powerful than my computer, is a JCB style tractor really the best idea they can come up with to get the crashed car out of the way quickly, and safely?

Agree the tractor should not be on the track while cars are still going through in those conditions. They also really need review the appropriateness of the delta times they set for VSC/SC, and to start properly punishing drivers going too fast under yellow/waved yellow/red flags. The speed he was going it would still take 70-100m to stop. Whether double waved yellow or red flag, that is WAY too fast.

That gave me chills, even right now... Instantly I thought of Jules Bianchi May he rest in peace 🕊️

Uh tractors do belong on the track under VSC, and safety car conditions. That's the whole reason they made VSC to begin with. What you aren't suppose to do is: go as fast as you can around the track under safety car, just because you are really really really far behind the safety car. Was this an accident waiting to happen? Yes. There are also other accidents waiting to happen all over F1. But to suggest that a tractor doesn't belong on track under safety car is ignoring the purpose of a safety car. That's literally their job. to slow the cars down to a safer speed so marshals can work on accidents or what have you. It isn't the marshals fault drivers take liberty with the speed limit when they are a lap behind the safety car. There needs to be clear procedures in place for a driver that pits under safety car, and wants to go as fast as possible to catch up to the pack, when it isn't safe to do so.

Agreed the eq should not have been on track. But under a red flag, Pierre should NEVER be in 5th gear in the rain. Unbelievable

Do you know what could have prevented all this? Having wet tires for when is wet....oh wait...

I think this hightlight a possible solution. For both regular safety car incidents and more extreme situations like this. Why is there no safety incident car? A car which is separate from the regular safety car but picks up cars which are behind or were lapped cars sent through, and then guide them through the incident area to keep those cars and the incident area safe. Could not just be used here but also say at 2021 abu dabi AND monza this year where you can send lapped cars through earlier if you KNOW there is another car waiting a corner or two before leading them through the incident while its being cleared and then let them drive at speed again when they passed the incident area. The problem is not really that there is a tractor out there when there is a safety car, it is that driver will need to catch up to the safety car because of pit stops or similar. A yellow/red striped flag before the incident area, limiting speed to 50kph during that are could also be a solution for both safety of drivers and personell but also to resolve safety car procedings faster as lapped cars will already have been dealt with when the incident is cleared. Not saying I have the optimal solution but we have 4 races now within 12 months in which A improvement should exist.

Radios ARE NOT a reliable way to tell drivers what is going on. Radio failure is usual in a wet race. Telehandlers SHOULD NOT be deployed on track whilst cars are 'catching up' to the safety car. I fear another biggie is coming if this continues...

Honestly I’m just pissed that the FIA haven’t learned from 2015, use your fucking brain, is it a good idea to stick a big tractor on the track with torrential rain where drivers can’t see shit? Plus the blame is 100% on the FIA, we could have seen a huge crash and a possible tragic crash at that

Crashed car on track + bad weather conditions >>> instant red flag, wait until all cars are in pitlane, recover vehicle.

What happened to Jules Bianchi, that was also under safety car conditions

It's like Imola '94

The whole point of the safety car is so that marshals and equipment can come on track. Gasly DOES bear some blame here. FIA should just remove the SC and red flag (with no car service) when they need to go on track. It would be safer, and would make the running order problem easier to solve.

There is nothing the FIA can say to justify this situation happening. I was about to say for once, the FIA was doing something right in letting the race start with the rain, and then quickly red flagging for unsafe conditions, but when Pierre came back to the paddock pissed, and we found out why, it was clear to me that they themselves created one of THE most unsafe conditions on track where a driver/marshall could have been killed. It's the fact that we just saw this in Monza as well--doesn't matter, rain or shine, because anyone can get caught out.

I refuse to see another driver lose their life for this sport, shouldn’t happen. So sorry to jules’ father for having to watch that. I am livid.

never let a tractor out unless the safetycar has all cars tailing it..... MINIMUM

2026 dangerous crash prevention tech is being proposed... well why not demo test it during extreme wet races now? Use it immediately deploy yellows or reds, warnings of incidents, where incidents and recovery crew are, which side of track etc.,. This should happen.