For anyone commenting that ABUR Dual Lands should be in S Tier, here is the reply you will get: "OG Duals are in A Tier because they are largely unavailable. Price hardly factors into it at all. This is basically just a jab at the reserve list which we have hated on in several videos in the past. We don't like that these game pieces' supply cannot *ever* meet demand, which is the case for reserved list cards and zero other magic cards."

@JD-gk7eh

3 жыл бұрын

I think everyone understood why you rated them as you did. It was clear. It's just that people didn't think that was valid if you're ranking the dual lands just on how powerful we are and that's what people are really saying when they post that. I also disagree with the rating there but I thought this was a really fun video and enjoyed it otherwise :)

@dino-wer-kuh3498

3 жыл бұрын

poop face! respect my authoritah!

@alslayer18

3 жыл бұрын

I think they should have been placed in poop tier to really send a message :p

@discoviolenza1984

3 жыл бұрын

I recently took all my original dual lands out of my decks and found out it barely matters. There are enough good lands now that you don't really need them.

@JD-gk7eh

3 жыл бұрын

@@discoviolenza1984 I don't play any of mine in Commander either. I keep them for Legacy. They matter a lot more at comp levels in decks that are trying to abuse Ad Nauseam (which is another Legacy deck that doesn't function at all without OG duals, no shock swap possible). But still, they are strictly better than any of the others.

Should have given OG duals and Fetches their own tier: U for unavailibility

@Greg501-

3 жыл бұрын

Also, Fetches are 5 color lands, change my mind

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

Fetches are DEFINITELY five color lands, although we decided to lump them into the duals. Easily the best lands ever printed!

@tatsuhirosatou5513

3 жыл бұрын

@@NitpickingNerds fetches are really overrated, they are good but there is no reason to play them in a 2 color deck unless it's landfall the deck thinning just isn't relevant in edh.

@AsgneonthebesT

3 жыл бұрын

@@tatsuhirosatou5513 depends, if you can fetch mystic sanctuary in 2c then it's still likely worth

@tatsuhirosatou5513

3 жыл бұрын

@@AsgneonthebesT only if you are playing a very specific type of blue deck, mystic sanctuary is in the same over rated boat.

1:48 ABUR 2:49 BICYCLE 3:38 BOUNCE 4:59 CANOPY 6:44 CHECK 7:40 CREATURE 9:02 CROWD 10:17 DEPLETION 10:53 FAST 12:50 FETCH 15:35 FILTER 17:18 GAIN 18:07 GATES 18:43 KAMIGAWA 19:14 NEW TAPPED 19:45 OLD TAPPED 20:45 PAIN 21:42 PATHWAYS 22:43 REFUGES 23:07 REVEAL 24:14 SCRY 25:33 SHOCK 26:30 SIGNET 27:43 SLOW FETCHES 28:50 SNOW DUALS 30:21 STAY TAPPED 30:42 STORAGE 31:49 TAINTED 33:13 TANGO 34:04 TAPPED PAIN 35:13 T.T.SNOW 35:43 TRIBAL

I love how you guys are very politely fighting about Fast lands the whole video.

One day there’s gonna be a episode of a tier lists of all the tier lists!

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

Ooooo for when we inevitably jump the shark

@nicklurch5984

3 жыл бұрын

I'm here for it

@bradwinward1237

3 жыл бұрын

Please actually do that! Thatd be so funny

@demolisherman1763

3 жыл бұрын

@@NitpickingNerds is edh shark tribal a thing if so I may need to do something?

@GabetheFrog_

3 жыл бұрын

@@demolisherman1763 I would love to see that

The enemy painlads are the first lands I buy for every deck where I can fit them. They definitely have the highest playability/cost ratio of all dual lands. I'll be very happy when they reprint the ally painlands into the ground.

The storage lands are bonkers if you have interactions with the counters. My Atraxa deck loves them. Notable things about them: they don’t need to be untapped to remove counters. and you can remove any amount of counters.

@dino-wer-kuh3498

3 жыл бұрын

"This very bad card is not bad in this very specific scenario! Therefore its not bad at all!"

@CaptTelnet

3 жыл бұрын

@@dino-wer-kuh3498 I never said that! You seem to be confused. Let me help you out: “storage lands are bonkers ***IF***” I highlighted the important part of the sentence since your reading comprehension seems to be on the poor side. I’ll explain further, so you won’t get confused again. The “implication” (a conclusion that can be drawn from something not explicitly stated) was that they aren’t good if you don’t have a way to manipulate the counters. I hope that helped. :)

@dac314

Жыл бұрын

They really do pop off with Atraxa, or ANY proliferate triggers. Notably, Evolution Sage, with a proliferate landfall triggers, and Flux Channeler, an Inexorable Tide on a body in blue. These are not hard-to-come-by cards, they're staples of the counters Archetype, which itself is a staple of the format. That other fool was trippppin

This aged well. The pain lands getting reprinted in a massive standard product was amazing ! Most are under a buck! Totally got a ton of them for my decks. Also Yavimaya coast art is gorgeous

The blue and white storage land specifically is very powerful in a control/ flash/ blink based deck or similar, where you keep your mana open until the end of the enemy turns anyway. Allows you to pool unspent mana and eventually there will be a turn where you play Draining Whelk and Bogardan Hellkite at once..

I'm so glad my playgroup has decided to errata the new snow dual lands to just be OG duels, no snow and no tapped

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

I actually heard about a lot of people doing that! How has it been going?

@sethmassacre

3 жыл бұрын

@@NitpickingNerds most of us already have duels, it's nice to bring everyone to equal levels and also not have to shuffle $600+ lands

@omahonda

3 жыл бұрын

This is genius!

@Ixidora

3 жыл бұрын

I think I will bring this idea to my playgroup, since they're common I'd have no problem just covering the snow and enters tapped with sharpie so they don't confuse the couple guys who built actual snow decks.

@CodeTitan

2 жыл бұрын

big brain

The Golgari man land has deathtouch, so it can sometimes be a surprise trading blocker. Then again, I don’t run it anywhere, so it doesn’t go everywhere.

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah we think the creature lands are pretty bad, but four of them have fringe uses and I'd play any of them in a budget deck

@TheSkanksta

3 жыл бұрын

the ones you put counters on are honesty pretty good with vorinclex. turn into a 6/6 not a 3/3

What about choice lands, from jumpstart where they produce one pre-chosen color and one other color?

@qwteb

2 жыл бұрын

Thriving lands? They're better than tapped dual lands but theyre still tapoed

@gurukimci

2 жыл бұрын

@@qwteb - and not fetchable.

@bijanae

2 жыл бұрын

They're decent budget lands in 3+ color decks

@66exe

2 жыл бұрын

Those are essentially just tapped duals. Slightly better if you have to mana fix for 3+ colors but as they said, there are better available choices in 3 color

Storage lands ( 30:42 ) are definetly poop-tier... unless you are playing Atraxa or with any Proliferate-shenanigans, then they rise straight up to A tier (or even S) :D

@FelipeSilva-bq7dk

3 жыл бұрын

Storage lands are a big trap in Atraxa, because she demands FOUR different colors. One in your first turns will kill your plans so hard...

@Feyamius

3 жыл бұрын

I'm running the Dimir one in Zaxara without much proliferate stuff, just for having a way to store unspent mana over a few turns. I'm not sure how good it is yet though, bc Rhona.

@CaptTelnet

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed. I’d also recommend “city of shadows” for even crazier Atraxa land shenanigans. The recent reserve list buyouts have made it quite expensive though.

One of my favorite things about magic is all the nicknames for cards. My favorites for the lands are man lands, bicycle lands and crowd lands. Great video guys, keep it up

Think of the bounce lands as a tapland that gives you a single card card advantage. You play lands 3 times, you get 3 mana after 3 turns. But now you've only needed to use two cards for it.

@tobiasfikkert2241

Жыл бұрын

I agree, i think the bounce lands are quite underrated... In a vaccuum, yes they dont do much besides fixing your mana. But combine them with 'spell lands' like Mystic Sactuary, Bojuka Bog of any of the MDFC's and the bouncelands become a lot better. If your deck has some ETB's on the lands i recommend looking at the bouncelands. Besides that, the're so cheap, so any budget deck can afford them.

I agree from an availability and pricing standpoint, but OG duals are S-tier. You shouldn't let those factors influence their placement. If Shock lands or guildgates suddenly jumped their prices to the 100's of dollars would you knock them down a tier? Og duals were once cheap, but now expensive. I don't think that changes the power level of that card. Especially when your title is "Dual Land Tier List | Your Complete Guide to Dual Lands in Commander" something like this might confuse newer players. Love the content your making, Keep it up.

@RussianPS3

3 жыл бұрын

They wouldn’t because shocks and fetches can be reprinted and would never go that high. OG duals will never be printed again. They also explain their reasoning in the first few minutes, I really don’t think anyone would get confused tbh

@shaneskeffington4310

3 жыл бұрын

@@RussianPS3 I'm sorry do you have a crystal ball that can see the future? Back when the RL was made people said the same about Duals. Revised was printed to oblivion, they will never be expensive, and yet here we are. Now, do I really believe that shocks or other lands will get that high, NO. This is a Tier list video on dual lands said to be a complete guide, and it's not. If OG Duals are not listed correctly it's not a complete guide. Have you ever played one of those mobile games where people spend ridiculous amount of money on summons for a specific character? They tend to be the best ones in the game. Yet they have low drop chances and people have to spend crazy money to get them. for the purpose of tier-list money does not influence the power of a card, the stats do that. While I understand their logic in the video I believe it to be flawed from a tier list perspective, but ultimately it's their video they can do whatever they want with it. I wrote that comment in a hope that it would help because recently they keep bashing the RL because of its price in almost every video. Sometimes you just have to accept what it is and move on. The Ides for videos they have made recently I have loved, but stop beating the same dead horse. Hope this helps clarify things.

@tatsuhirosatou5513

3 жыл бұрын

@@shaneskeffington4310 I agree with them that the reserve list should go but you can speak against the reserve list without misrepresenting the cards on it.

Now you have to do a tri land video, although that would be pretty short: S: Triome lands C: tap lands from Shards and Khans D: Murmering Bosk, and Tournament Grounds Poop: Crypt of the Eternals, Invasion Sac lands, Lair type lands, and Homelands lands at the bottom

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

SO MANY POOP TRILANDS

@JD-gk7eh

3 жыл бұрын

Man, it's hard to find someone who even remembers the Lair lands XD

@nobodyimportant72

3 жыл бұрын

If you have any "come into play" lands the lairs aren't all bad as they enter untapped and you can tap what you return. They do slow you down a bit if you have the lands in hand however.

@madOsna

3 жыл бұрын

Don't you dare disrespecting my Homelands-Cycle like that!

My personal experience with bounce lands is that they are super niche for combos, but unless you have a way to really abuse them, they’re like top of poop tier. They’ve just never been all that great and are usually a tempo loss. Gain lands I’d say are better because while they only give you one life, that’s one more point of damage an opponent needs to deal, that’s one more Necropotence activation, that’s one more mana for a card cast off of Bolas’s Citadel. One more life in general is, while barely noticeable, going to be far better on average than returning a land. In my experience, at least. Obviously, if you have landfall effects and/or can play multiple lands a turn, bounce lands look much better, but so do storage lands in Atraxa. But again, my personal experience has me putting them in poop with the storage lands for the average deck.

@Blackvolttage

3 жыл бұрын

The idea is that the bounce lands enters tap but "draw" you a land card. In practice they are way worse, but if you had a single dual land in your deck, the bounce is the best of the tapped bunch

So where do the "artifact taplands" and the "campuses" go on this list?

@thomaswhite3059

2 жыл бұрын

Campuses are poop tier definitely

Old and ugly? The invasion tap lands are gorgeous

@joachimwessmark2601

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, Thank you

@mr.dreampants8095

2 жыл бұрын

I felt personally attacked lol

@peterrevilla1828

2 жыл бұрын

@@mr.dreampants8095 They didn't know what set it was, meaning they are newer players, we love them Cuz we grew up with them. But yea the art is beautiful!

@peterrevilla1828

2 жыл бұрын

@@joachimwessmark2601 They didn't know what set it was, meaning they are newer players, we love them Cuz we grew up with them. But yea the art is beautiful!

@joachimwessmark2601

2 жыл бұрын

@@peterrevilla1828 You might be right, I guess it's hard do differentiate between nostalgia and actual preference sometimes. Still love the old style though.

Batteries land (storage) are actually not poop, I always put at least 1 in every deck, they tap for colorless if you need but it can lead to some pretty explosive turns later on, the key is to spend your mana doing things and only put counters when you have some leftovers. they produce both colors in any combination and if you play any proliferate shenanigan you can get quite a payout from these. def better then a straight up tap land

@wolftree6365

2 жыл бұрын

They're useful in (X) cast decks such as Hydra Simics or in any deck where you might end up having 1 mana left floating at the end of any of your turns.

@dac314

Жыл бұрын

@@wolftree6365 which is fairly frequently, if you're holding up mana for interaction, or have some floating mana at the end of any given phase. Also they could benefit from any proliferate triggers that occur. Low C ordinarily, high A with synergy.

If you put slow fetches into C because of landfall triggers, then bounce lands belong there too. Plus bounce lands also let you reuse other ETBs like Bojuka Bog.

The enemy pain lands are the best budget option. I hope WOTC reprints all of the ally cycle sometime. I can't believe they haven't reprinted some of them since 10th edition.

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

It's been so long! Couldn't they have made their way into a core set or something by now?

@FurLbauth

3 жыл бұрын

@@NitpickingNerds they are too busy reprinting temples into core sets

You guys are SERIOUSLY underrating bounce lands. SERIOUSLY. As you even stated - they are two lands in one card. Two. Makes a 3 land starting hand a 4 land starting hand if one is a bounce, AND you still have 4 playable cards in hand. One of my friends pretty much calls them card draw - when you play the card, your hand has the same number of cards in it after playing as before. And, because you can bounce a tapped land, there is at least as good a tempo as scry, bicycle, ect lands. Late game, bounce a scry land, get an additional scry. Or bounce a bicycle land, and cycle it. If you tap that bicycle land first, it only costs 1 additional mana to get that extra card draw. Early game, bounce a basic, then you get your fixing and you are able to not lose any tempo cause you can play your basic next turn. Bounce lands are: Fixing. Card Advantage. Double card advantage with cycling lands. Enabling of multiple strategies. Value in doubling a land's ETB. Bounce your MDFC spell lands. Bounce Lands are B Tier.

@brandoncreek5709

2 жыл бұрын

I pretty much will only use them in decks that want to play multiple lands in a turn or in a deck that wants to use stuff like Amulet of Vigor. That or budget decks. Even decent fixing for my Naya deck.

@RagingRevine

2 жыл бұрын

People like to use the bounce lands because they think it's an advantage. But you can't play them t1, t2 you take back a land and have access to 1 mana instead of 2 ( still 2 mana ) and t3 when you play your 3rd land, you have access to 2 lands...again equalling 3 mana. So you save 1 potential draw for a MUCH slower hand. And any other bounce land after that, delays your turns again. This means you're not playing anything till turn 3 unless it's 1 mana. So you're not really ahead unless you start with exploration. And the ''card advantage'' doesn't even make sense because it still forces you to draw into more lands or else all you did was not playing anything for 2 turns. Also, it forces you to discard a card at the end of t2 because you have 7 cards t1 ( after initial landfall ), t2 you have 8, play bounce land, bring back a land and now you have 8 again. And the last thing....strip mine.... which a lot of people run. If you play a tap land and someone starts blowing lands up, you're getting 2 for oned and if it's early game, you may as well just scoop. Unless you're playing a 2 color landfall deck or titanshift, i would really consider getting something else unless you're on a budget.

Great video, and very helpful! I'm fairly new to EDH, and honing in my mana bases has been an interesting if at times a little frustrating challenge. A lot of good notes here to consider -- thanks!

Signet lands are amazing from trasforming colorless mana into colored. I played a couple of them even in certain cedh decks, to transform mana from sol ring / mana crypt / mana vault into colored mana. They definitely should be rated higher

I would rate the Bicycle lands B if I compare it too their C counterparts. A toer better imho. Cyclable, fetchable👍🏻

In my experience, the signet filter lands are surprisingly playable in specifically budget 5 color decks that require producing WUBRG. When I build those decks, they tend to overproduce green (because mana dorks are super easy cheap ramp), so having Signets and signet filter lands actually comes in pretty handy. Decks should definitely be built with manabase in mind though, so gotta avoid double blue counterspells and such.

I have come to love signet lands for allowing colorless sources in 5 color decks. Makes running ancient tomb and sol ring in Golos way better. Also the nonred ones are super good with rituals like jeska's will

@infamous0ne789

3 жыл бұрын

I agree! I use signet lands in non-green decks that run colorless rocks. You can add Mana Crypt in there for what the signet lands work well with.

Great video! Thank you. I have played MTG off and on for twenty+ years and this video was super helpful as a list for what is available. I have missed half of these when they came out and it's nice to know of their existence. It's crazy to see some of the really good ones ive had in the past, that ive gotten rid of. Commander really changed up MTG in mostly great ways.

I asked you guys about this like 5 months ago! Glad you guys came around to it.

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

We got there eventually!

Loved this video. Been a lot harder recently with more and more "dual lands" getting printed to know how each compared to one another. Listening to this during work, would be nice to have some music in the background on low. Anyway, keep up the good work! :)

Great video, thanks! I have been looking all over for a good overview on this topic :)

When deck building, I always ask the question "Would I rather draw a basic over this?" If yes, I do not include it. Keeps it simple.

18:09 : Wrong image pulled up xD * I would argue that the filters should probably belong right next to the Check lands - the Check land requires you to have one of the two basic land types available, Filter lands just require any source that produces that colour (also going to have some serious issues if you don't get the proper colour on the next turn - also turn 1 isn't a real argument between these two since neither produce colour on turn 1 anyway) * I'd maybe argue for the filters going up to C - for one major reason, you can turn colourless mana into coloured mana (say you have a Mind Stone or something for example), that said it can't produce mana on its own, but that isn't really a problem after turn 1. (Obviously 2 colour-only)

@VampiricGamess

3 жыл бұрын

Beat me to it lol

@fd7003

3 жыл бұрын

They can´t turn colourless into coloured Mana

At first I didn't like the new snow duals because they come in tapped, but I've tested them a bit now and have found them really useful for my Turn 1 fetch target if I don't have a turn 1 play instead of grabbing my shock and putting it in tapped.

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly, that is why they are so awesome!

I largely agree with your list. The only ones I'd rank higher are the storage lands, since they enter untapped and can potentially ramp you. I like them in proliferate decks.

Every Commander player (especially new players!) should watch this. Great content, as always, gentlemen. I'll for sure be passing this one around! Great info!!

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

Are you sure? We only put duals in A lol :P

@blackhorizon40k81

3 жыл бұрын

@@NitpickingNerds I actually really liked the way you described how some lands like the pain lands and check lands were good -- stuff that may not be obvious to new players. I also really liked that you called out the ones that have basic land types, as that is also something newer players don't always see the value in. Great stuff, I'M SURE!!!!

I like to refer to the tapped-pain lands, “Pain in the A**” lands.

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

*comedy drums*

Cool breakdown as I wasn’t aware of all the dual land types. We’re even getting a new “Slow” land with Midnight hunt that I’d consider A or almost S worthy since you can hold it for your third land drop. Fast lands I’d rate higher as well BUT I would only play 2 of in a standard deck.

Finally, someone who agrees about Pathways! I see them as a auto include in two colors, but past that they are not worth playing. I love that Murmuring Bosk is just arbitrarily a Forest making it fetchable, and its also a pain land. The land is just a mess, and I love it for that reasons. I run it in Kathril just because it is fetchable, and makes all three of my colors. I have no way to make it come in untapped in that deck..........

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

YEah it is a triland for abzan and thats great

@Blackvolttage

3 жыл бұрын

The reason bosk is a forest is because the treefolk harbinger tutors a treefolk or a forest to the top (likely at some point in their designs they were actual Tribal Land types, then they decided against it)

@The_MechaGojira

3 жыл бұрын

@@Blackvolttage Very interesting theory. I like it! What if it's the opposite, and the Harbinger can tutor a Forest because Bosk is a forest?

@Blackvolttage

3 жыл бұрын

@@The_MechaGojira yes, bosk seems to be given the forest type to let harbinger search for it (and the harbinger search for a forest to let it bring his tribal land). That said, they didnt make the same thing for the other ones, thats why i think they were intended to be tribal lands before they scrapped the cobcept (but liked the harbringer/bosk interaction and shought a way to preserve it)

@tatsuhirosatou5513

3 жыл бұрын

I think you are definitely wrong about pathways they are great, yea they aren't fetchable but most people don't play fetches and fetches are over rated in edh, basic land ramp can't grab them but if you aren't playing green that doesn't matter and they are strictly better than a basic to top deck.

I really like shock, check and scry lands! The new pathways and snow dual lands and awesome too.

This video changed my life :). I was playing taps and duals and thought I was smashing it- until I got marmalized. Thanks fellas.

A bit late to the party, but I think this might be my favorite of all your videos. You really knocked this one out of the park. Like, this is super useful for new players and I think you were right about all of it! I DO agree with Joe that I think the fast lands should be higher. Its so important to get the right mana early, and less so later. In my 2 color decks, they are rockstars the first few turns, and I barely notice them later. The argument against them is that when you get them late game they are bad. But I find that by then I either don't need my 12th mana, or I have enough other cards drawn that I have other lands I can lay. I play them in Teysa and Feather and I can't remember a time they backfired.

I actually used the filter lands to remove the Signets from my Averna, the Chaos Bloom deck and up my land count for landfall triggers.

Hey guys love the channel! I'm the guy who asked about Survival of the Fittest on the enchantment list. My question is how come the reveal land is valued so much lower than the tribal reveal land? I think I'm just as likely to have an island or mountain as I am a Giant in an Izzet deck. Also the basic reveals aren't limited to tribal. What are your thoughts on that?

Hey guys, nice and interesting vid! I like and agree with the list here. My one major disagreement is that I think filter lands should be in A tier (or even maybe S). IMO they are so good. I'd also put pain lands above canopy lands (except if i'm in a 2 colour combo without much draw, i.e only one that comes to mind is boros aha). Constant loss of life every time is not really worth the draw of one card after saccing the land later on. Whereas with pain lands, i might use the colour part only a couple of times until i've fixed my mana. But yeah in anything 3 colour and above i'd prefer filter lands over both so i can comfortably lean into spells with more 2 or 3 of the same colour of pip, or indeed multiple pip colours in the casting cost :)

Great info; thank you.

Nice list, only one i would personally shift up a tier is the pathways. I play these even in 3 color spread so long as im running all 3 of the potential combinations of pathway, and I tell you it works out for me more often than not. Never really had issue with dead draws or a damned if you do/dont situation with them. Yeah it sucks that once you play them the placement on the land is permanent (unless you have bounce) but all i care about early and mid game is fixing my mana and the pathways do that beautifully, don't come with a caveat and dont come into play tapped.

Do the crowd lands come in taped if it’s at the point where it is 1v1 since some players got knocked out or is there still 3 opponents?

It's a great list. I would argue, though, that the pain lands belong at the very bottom of S. It's one of the few land cycles that can always get you 2 colors 100% of the time, without conditions. The fact that the enemy colored ones are dirt cheap is just gravy. You won't necessarily run every one in your color combination, but they are still playable at even the most competitive of tables.

I like the storage lands. Leave mana up for a response, if you don't need it, add a counter. Then on like turn 9 when everyone's stopped paying attention and big dick plays are starting OOPS 6 extra mana.

@rodgerlang884

3 жыл бұрын

I agree completely

The elemental one is the 5 colors. The flamekin village was in a precon (iirc, Darreti's one for some reason)

Genuine question about why the reveal lands are so low? I get they drop off as soon as you go to more than 2 colours but if you're playing a 2 colour deck surely they're better than the pathways?

Under my turn 1 Blood Moon, that i of course mulligan for every game, these are just ranked Mountains.

you should absolutely do a video like this for mono coloured nonbasic lands (excluding colourless) it would obviously be a pretty long one but might be fun

The bounce lands are better than you might expect bouncing lands with etb triggers can be super useful

I really enjoy this list. The one I really disagree with and wanted to talk about are bounce lands. My experience with these is that they are amazing in small numbers (1-3 copies per deck). The reason is that they basically are a tapped dual land that draws you a card (returning a land to your hand but then tapping for two is basically drawing a land). You don’t want to play too many because they obvious do not synergize well with each other (you would never want to have to bounce another bounce land). But the card value you get is great and they help you not miss your land drops. And they also synergize well with MDFC lands, since when you bounce a MDFC it’s like drawing a spell. Overall I think most power level 7 or so decks that play MDFCs want at least one bounce land.

I definitely disagree about bounce lands. The fact that you essentially get an additional land card to play on your next turn is quite powerful. I don't find it too compelling to worry about wasteland/stripmine, as not only is it generally frowned upon to use land removal on non-threatening lands, going down a land to make an opponent go down two lands is less impactful when you have two more opponents who are now essentially a turn ahead of you.

@tonywacholz6279

Жыл бұрын

I 100% agree with this. In my play group, almost nobody runs land destruction. And even if they did, they would never waste it on blowing up my bounce land. Doesn’t seem that impactful truly. You’re much better using the land destruction on a utility land such as Academy Ruins, War Room, etc.

For storage lands, you would have to have some big synergies with proliferate and stuff, and even then, only a handful because they will slow you down.

I find the Signet lands play really well if you are even kinda budget, since they are dirt cheap, and with any ramp they can fix you so effectively, as long as you generally need only 1 of each of your deck's colors. This is mostly true in a 3 color deck, but I doubt you'd hate them in a 4 color, especially if you run fast mana like Man Crypt/Vault, Ancient Tomb, or any other colorless ramp. I feel like they'd be awkward in a 5 color deck, but they don't require any color to tap, which plays better in a 5 color deck than a Filter would.

I am a huge fan of the Kamigawa duals. I use them as a 1 of. Mainly for the art lol.

I'm a fan of bounce lands. They're among the best etb tapped lands because they effectively offer card advantage, with the only drawback being they're more susceptible to removal. That downside is entirely meta-dependent though (and subject to there not being another more powerful target).

Trying to make my unfinished Golos(lands/landfall focused) deck a home for gates/mazes end, but what other lands are okay to add as well? I do have a number of creatures that add extra lands a turn or can play them off the top. Can I add the new dual snow lands as well? *I plan to have 40-45 lands in this deck*, p.s. I dont own fetches :)

@caseywellington4761

3 жыл бұрын

Put Archelos in the deck, it will turn all your gates into og duals

@drewlongbrakevibes

3 жыл бұрын

@@caseywellington4761 gotta love the turtle 😁

I love my bounce lands. Its weird cause I have put plenty of money in my decks but I just refuse to pay like $40 dollars plus for a land card. All my shocks and fetches are proxies on top of my D tier lands. If someone doesn't like that I just pull the proxy out and play my awesome cards with slower lands

@manarager3413

3 жыл бұрын

The reason they're so expensive is because manabases win games

In a three color deck if you have Kodama. Get 2 bounce lands and it's a inf landfall trigger. Makes me push them up to C tier

Dear Nitpickers, great content as always! I know this only dual lands! However since the fetch and slow fetches were discussed. I felt like that the panoramas can be a sweet spot. Technically you will lose "two lands" to fetch, but you don't lose an entire turn as the slow ones. Peace out!

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dison! We might include them in a trilands tier list if we did them, but they do end up playing out similar to fetchlands. They're good in budget if you need landfall triggers!

Great video, these are a little tricky to search out for folks who haven't been playing legacy and modern! I will say, though, when you say "guildgates" you show Rakdos Carnarium which should be a bounceland, right? at 18:08

Great video, i feel better now after getting flack for playing so many pain lands and grabbing lots of my beloved check lands. Sweet justification...

Appreciate this video. The only one I completely disagree with is the signet lands - which I've found to be great for mana conversion of colorless mana sources (artifacts and utility lands). They allow plays like turn 1 utility land (colorless land), turn 2 both colors available.

The Best of the tribal lands from that cycle was the treefolk one, Murmuring. It makes 3 colors and it is a Forest so it is fetchable. It taps for a green because it is a forest and it also a Pain land for BW. A Doran staple.

Omg this was such an awesome tier list

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you liked it!

Filter lands are my favorite lands of all times. Turn 1 you can still cast sol ring still which is great. No other dual land let you play a swamp turn 2 and still be able to cast counter spell. I understand everyone else's opinion on lands but filters will always have a special place in my heart ❤.

I know they speak from a position of higher levels of play than I'm at, but I LOVE bounce lands. I'm new to the game still, but anything that lets me play a land and guarantee one for next turn without really losing anything has a home in my deck.

I would move Filter to A, all C to B and Signet, Reveal, Bounce and Creature to C. Other than that, completely agree

Should the Midnight Hunt and Crimson Vow Slow Lands be one spot above the Kaldheim snow duals?

you said fetchlands will get a reprint in what set? are you referring to how they where "kinda" in zendikar?

@darron614

3 жыл бұрын

They're here now in Modern Horizons 2

Here's the case for the filter lands: Let's say you're playing Aminatou which is bound to have a lot of blue and white for blinking cards. But you want to include Necropotence which is BBB. what you should do then is add *Two* of the filter lands for black so that way you can cast Necropotence and keep relevant mana fixing..

I like the pain lands a lot. I really want them to get a full reprint into standard to make them more accessable.

@Vinterloft

2 жыл бұрын

They were printed to death for like 5 core editions in a row, 6th to 10th, in addition to starter packs for for example Mercadian Masques, Nemesis, Invasion etc. how are they not accessible?!?

You forgot to mention that, with a sol ring or something else that produces colorless, signet lands basically turn colorless mama into colored mana.

Thanks for this, I started magic again after 10+ years and there are so many new cycles of lands and things for mana bases (what dk you mean no one plays darksteel ingot anymore?). I feel like since most of your lists don't take into account budget you should just slot the ABUR at the top of A tier since that is really where they are if you're not considering price. That or make their own section or just leave them off.

That Paul Heyman reference? /Chef kiss

Pathway is underestimated its a B absolutely no Downside to basics. Very good Lands maybe even an A. And no, old Taplands are not ugly. Especially the red Green one. But fighting about poop or nearly poop is riddiculous, so whatever. Reveal and scry should switch places too. Its only scry1, and reveal in a 2 colour Dech has nearly no Downside in the Beginning.

What about lairs? They enter the battle field untapped but they bounce a land to do it.

Shards fetches, Tarnished Citadel, and any other land that comes in untapped and gives you access to colorless with some other high cost ability deserve to be higher than they are. Any land that can help drop another rock on t1 or 2 is good in my book

What are your opinions of those tricycle Triome lands?

Would be interested to see where you slot the tri colored lands on this list.

nitpicking nerds. just my cup of tea.

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

We are everyone's cup of tea :D

The canopy lands are $10 or less depending on color. Simic land is around $6 and Boros land is most expensive. They have fluctuated in price since their printing.

I use a few bounce lands in my landfall deck since I can play multiple lands per turn anyways.

Another downside to filter lands is, you cannot make a single mana to play one spell and leave the other mana up to cast another spell on a later turn. So on turn two if you want to play a 1 mana creature and hold mana up for a 1 mana instant response, you just cannot with them. Same is true for signet lands. They are still great lands though.

Filter lands should be above checklands. In turn one a checkland doesn't give mana and if you have other duo lands without types they will come tapped. While filter lands in turn one at least give colorless and function with other lands despite the types and even mana rocks, furthermore they give the upside of transforming one mana source if needed to give double of the same color.

Scry lands are my preferred land draw after turn 5/6. I think they are basically like “paying” 1 for a scry 1.

@dino-wer-kuh3498

3 жыл бұрын

If I already have to run ETB tappedlands, I for SURE would run those that can be fetched by lands and spells AND cycle. Temples suck

Got a "shorts" idea for you guys: in a previous video you guys referenced a handy "shortcut" regarding risen reef and ritez of replication. I'm wondering if there's any other considerate shortcuts you'd recommend to make gameplay more fun and less tedious for all involved.

@NitpickingNerds

3 жыл бұрын

Ohhh that could be good I'm writing that down

Great videos, keep it up! But the art and frame of the old tapped lands putes them into c for sure!

IMO Filter lands should move up to A; Tango lands, Pathways, and Fast lands should move up to B; and Bounce lands should move up to C. I understand them lowering the OG duals to A because of their scarcity and insanely high price, but if we base them solely on their power level in game they are obviously S tier.

I would have thought the signet lands would have been high C tier or low B tier

@Wackyfox

3 жыл бұрын

I have to agree - even though they don’t produce mana for free, you get back more than what you put in. They’re better than the Temples, certainly.

I largely agree with this list, except for the signet lands. I don't think it matters much that they don't do anything t1, since you should have another land in hand that can be played t1 (if you don't, why did you keep that hand!?). I would have put them in C personally. Having said all that, there are so many dual land cards I can also see why they would be lower on the priority list.

Hey my dudes where do you put the new innistrad duels.

@BOBSMITH-YouTubeStoleMyHandle

2 жыл бұрын

I like them better than the "fast lands" because in commander, you aren't trying to win in the first couple turns. So if I draw one in the first few turns, I just play the other lands in hand, and just make the new Innistrad duals my third land and it enters ready to go.

the snow tap duals are actually c tier imo because they have land types and are fetchable. played them in a tasigur list to fix my colours when using farseek natures lore or three visits.