I think the talismen and signets are much different. Being able to use the talismen right away makes them much better than the signets

@markdziamski4859

Жыл бұрын

💯 agreed. The talismans are way better than the signets

@anonymoususer5351

Жыл бұрын

Aight hear me out. Signets can also be used right away as they enter untapped, they only ever cannot be used the turn they are played if you have two mana. This means that this upside that Talismans have is only ever relevant on turn 2. On turn two their ability to be used right away would only be used to cast a 1-drop. But if you had a 1-drop it would have been played turn 1. The conclusion to this is that the Talismans' ability to tap without mana is only ever a real upside when you have a one drop to cast on both turn 1 and turn 2, assuming neither one drop was a mana dork (because then you could just activate your Signet anyway). So my question is: how many times have you ever wanted to play two non-mana dork 1-drops turn 2 in conjunction with your mana ramp?

@leobro6398

Жыл бұрын

@@anonymoususer5351 ok, imagine playing a draw spell and having 2 mana left. amomg the cards you have drawn there is a talisman and a 1 drop. With the talisman you can play both. With the signet you have to decide. And these corner cases just pile up. Talismen already arent the cream of the crop, so this difference means make or break for me

@davidiswhat

Жыл бұрын

@@anonymoususer5351 They also lead to awkward turns where you can't have the mana for Mana Drain/Counterspell, Necropotence, etc. The color filtering of Signets matters less as you upgrade your mana base. It's why a lot of cEDH decks don't run Signets but run Talismans.

@joshholmes1372

Жыл бұрын

Talismans are so much better. Especially as they act as a mana source without conditions vs requiring another untapped piece to use.

The green/non-green distinction only on talismans is not enough, the whole tier list could have been split in two: green/non-green.

@cabbagedestroyer1693

Жыл бұрын

Cultivate in mono green deck? Completely trash. Cultivate in three colored decks? One of the best mana fixer.

@dac314

Жыл бұрын

I definitely see their point in setting apart the green mana rocks vs other mana rocks, but I still like having them around. Especially when creature based ramp might get shut down or actively impeded. I play a Gruul signet in a red/green elves/dragons double tribal deck. Don't look at me like that, if someone wastes removal on a signet I'm winning out in that situation.

@odstp1tv1pr37

Жыл бұрын

@@cabbagedestroyer1693 would cultivate not be better in a mono green deck as there is far more basics? I’m many of my three color decks I don’t run very many basics

@cabbagedestroyer1693

Жыл бұрын

@@odstp1tv1pr37 why would you tun cultivate in mono green when there are sp many better options? Unless you are doing landfall/ramp deck.

@odstp1tv1pr37

Жыл бұрын

@@cabbagedestroyer1693 I do play mainly landfall, but other than sky shroud claim, nature’s lore, and three visits. What are the other directly better options? And how is cultivate better in a three color deck than a mono colored deck?

Caravan Vigil and Primal Growth are 2 ramp spells that are criminally underplayed, and easy recommendations for decks that like sacrificing their own creatures. In the decks they fit, they're hard to beat for their costs.

@jajahatman8842

Жыл бұрын

Oooooo they could be great in my Ghave deck

@qwormuli77

Жыл бұрын

Caravan Vigil is tech I didn't even know about. 1 mana untapped Rampant Growth with a really easy requirement, plus a pretty strong "alternate" main cast you can use for t1 mana fixing if necessary. Damn, that's strong in the right deck.

Found your channel recently but I love your content! Your videos have helped me build my first ever deck, keep it up 👍

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

That’s amazing to hear, who is the commander? 😄

wayfarer's bauble is 3, but I think it's important to note that its not necessarily 3 on the same turn. If you have it in your opening hand, you play a land, get it down, then it's still ramping you on turn 2. Unless you had a sol ring in your hand, you probably weren't doing much with that turn 1 land anyway.

A lot of these are too situational to put on an objective tier-list. Like a lot of people have already said, faeburrow elder just isn’t the same in a 2 colour deck as it is in a 5 colour deck. Also applies to mana vault, etc.

@Basimilus

Жыл бұрын

Same with Nature's lore vs farseek. 1-2 colour deck, nature's lore is pretty good, 3-4 colours and Id rather play Farseek.

@JohnDoe-vc5qb

Жыл бұрын

@@Basimilus completely agreed

@wchenful

Жыл бұрын

​@@Basimilus Nah, in any number of colours, nature's lore still destroys farseek. Duals and shocks make both of them 5c ramp but nature's lore comes into play untapped which often leads to lines like t2 natures lore > breeding pool untapped > mystic remora. The difference is pretty staggering.

26:15 As long as I'm S-Tier in everyone's hearts ❤️

@pauldyson8098

Жыл бұрын

I believe in you, Bauble.

@spurcalluth6300

Жыл бұрын

First up (in our hearts) is Wayfarer's Bauble. It's great that you're back to being budget.

@WayfarersBauble

Жыл бұрын

@@spurcalluth6300 Where I should have been all along! Plenty of me to go around ❤️

@spudster8887

Жыл бұрын

Get in my bulk pile you beautiful bauble

@faultywiring1004

Жыл бұрын

I play you in every deck it's okay sweetie

I think you're undervaluing Explore and especially Growth Spiral a bit. They're mostly cantrips with useful text tacked on. You don't play GS to ramp, you play it when you have a counter or similar on hand and it wasn't the right time to use it

@joelmacgregor2615

Жыл бұрын

It’s all about that instant speed action

@wanderingwatcher3981

Жыл бұрын

I personally prefer Explore/GS to Rampant Growth. It's better when mana flooded as it gets rid of one of your lands in hand and maybe your next draw isn't another land. From my experience, around 2/3 to 3/4 of the time Explore will ramp. Rampant Growth is always a land in your hand and always ramps but consider this - 3 Rampant Growth + 1 other non-land card is about the same (maybe slightly more) ramp effect as 4 Explore. However, 4 Explore will let you see 4 new cards out of which 2 should be non-land. In sum, Explore adds less sudo-lands to a deck for similar ramp effect, while costing around 25% more mana (because more Explore cards must be cast for a similar ramp effect). This is better late-game when card advantage matters more and is also an additional reason Growth Spiral is good in control / reactive decks. Note: Using Rampant Growth, a fetch, slims your deck's land count - increasing the chance of non-land, but this effect is very small in commander because the decks are so large. Drawing more non-land cards with Growth Spiral is more tangible card advantage.

Good content and great insights for people who might need some help figuring out what pieces they need. U do find it hard to talk about ramp spells without considering what's being ramped into. Of course in edh that becomes a bit of a dubious question as you're often ramping to be able to cast multiple spells a turn rather than a playset of a big thing you're almost always able to find. But the discussion of, for example, rampant growth versus cultivate for me tends to be the difference of running a 4 mana or maybe a 5 mana commander where I would never run cultivate in a deck where I want to power out said 4 mana commander. This is of course not the video to have that discussion but I would've liked a mention.

Great video! Been looking for a guide like this!! And fun to watch

This is a prime example why green never needed treasures

@qwormuli77

Жыл бұрын

For the last time, inclusions are decided on what fits what, not on what is needed. Every color needs the things they are bad at and are plentiful in the things they are good at. Nobody goes "this is a prime example why black never needed more kill spells" and I think you might want to learn from them.

@zacharybecker8228

Жыл бұрын

@@qwormuli77 treasures fit red or black or white alot better

@Ashes_to_Ashes200

Жыл бұрын

@@zacharybecker8228 But green serves the purpose and aesthetic of mana generation. Out of clues, food, and treasures, treasures are the only one that make sense for it because there isn't any +1/+1 sacrifice artifact

Sad to see Springbloom Druid didn’t make the list this year! Although I can easily see myself running out of basics if I fully utilized that things power, and maybe that does hold it back, but I still think it’s better than Harrow.

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

Just not played as much as all these

@Dinoking9996

10 ай бұрын

Same with travelers amulet

I will defend Commanders Sphere in 4 and 5 color decks for mana fixing. Edit: I am building a 3 color, non-green, deck and I will make some changes to my mana rocks based on this. (Adding Talismans.) The deck I’m working on is Oloro, Ageless Ascetic, if you’re curious. 😝

@Oxygen1004

Жыл бұрын

Chromatic lantern is way better for mana fixing tho, Commander sphere is outclassed by both that and signet. Only reason to play it is if you have something that deals with artifacts being sacrificed

I think a nice little addition to video styles like this would be a card that you guys are surprised that is not in the top 25 cards

I haven't played (or watched your content) in about a year, but just saw this video and wow Joe you looking fab, I love it!

I put all my decks on Moxfield and it did help me get way more organized, and also helped figure out the expensive cards I could sell off

I was just thinking about updating the land base of one of my older janky-er decks, and this will help me get some good ramp

I like to use Thran Dynamo (for non green) and Lotus Cobra (Synergizes with green's land ramping and also if played on turn 3, can refund one mana if you play your land afterwards, which may help you cast colors you may be missing in your mana pool)

I think there is an argument that 1 mana dorks should be A tier and 2 mana should be B tier, simply because they do not tap on the turn they come in and they do die to sweeps. Their synergy with your deck not withstanding they are objectively worse than the best land ramp in a vacuum. Would be cool to see a tier list for some of the more casual artifact ramp, i've found myself playing midnight clock, cursed mirror and strixhaven stadium recently when powering down my decks.

Sometimes I'll play arcane signet only in three color green decks where green isn't the dominant color. There's many times where I'll have green ramp in my starting hand but no green sources. Being colorless kinda gives it that edge in three color decks where Mana fixing is a lot more crucial. But yeah only play it if green isn't the dominant color.

@faultywiring1004

Жыл бұрын

I choose to run it anyway because it's untapped, playing it then another dork feels good

@Sinistra359

Жыл бұрын

@@faultywiring1004 yeah definitely playable even in green decks

@spudster8887

Жыл бұрын

In 3+ colour decks its a bad choice to not play arcane signet. I own exactly 1 deck without arcane signet in it, and thats elves for obvious reasons. You need a very good reason to not run it imo, and just being in green isn't a good enough reason. I genuinely think people overrate land ramp

@Fausto_4841

Жыл бұрын

@@spudster8887 i've got a few rocks in my elfball. my local meta is very wipe-heavy.

@spudster8887

Жыл бұрын

@@Fausto_4841 my condolences hopefully your local meta gets with the time soon

The youtube algorithm got it right in recommending this video/your channel. Great job on the content!

I saw the moxfield symbol & thought it was a trap I still didn’t see it coming lol

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

We are too strong with the ad placement!!!

Been waiting for this one.

This is one of the best tier rankings I've seen for ramp. Great Job! The only change I'd make would be to change the "poop" category into "archetype-specific" - and then put cards like Mirari's Wake and Faeburrow Elder there as well. Two other amazing ramp cards that didn't make the popularity cut are: Tempt with Discovery which in casual play basically says (3G: Search your library for any 4 lands including non-basics and put them into play) and Kinnan Bonder Prodigy is (UG: +1 mana ramp for dorks and rocks)

I missed Fertile Ground for me its right behind Overgrowth! Great vid and cheers!

Oh baby now this is a tier list I can get behind.

Land enchantment ramp is good because it's not usually enough of a threat to warrant single target removal and there aren't many enchantment board whipes. Plus not many people run land destruction and when they do, they target high priority stuff like urborg, cradle, maze of ith, etc.

I have a question for you guys: during Commandfest Montreal, what days will you be there? I can most likely only make it on Friday, but I would love to see you two in person!

Beezy, that fast mana convo happened at commandfest while you were playing with me in a four pod. I’m the guy with the mono white deck with all the 0 drop mana rocks. Lolz

You guys missed my favorite ramp spell. Retraced Image, from Torment, for the mono blue ramp. And yes playing it on turn one sets you back a card, but you're mono blue, you're going to be drawing all the cards anyways.

There is a difference when playing more colours. Faeburrow Elder for example in a five colour deck ist very different than in a selesnya one. In general i think magic is too complex for these tier lists, no matter how popular they might be.

@ColorwaveCraftsCo

Жыл бұрын

I don’t think most people are making deck decisions based solely on a tier list. They are just a bit of fun

My niche use for Faeburrow Elder is that it goes infinite with Najeela (not a high bar to clear, I know) if you also have U and B permanents out! The vigilance is the key, as you can declare it as an attacker, then tap it for the mana to activate Najeela, untapping it.

I believe there is one mana ramp method that was not mentioned and doesn't get mentioned nearly enough... COST REDUCTION... stricly superior than rocks in my opinion based on how cumulative it is, so mentioning at least the amulets would've been nice... Ps: Suggestion on a video either on cost reduction, or previous staples and the cards that pushed them away

@charliewright2667

Жыл бұрын

They said at the beginning that it's just the most popular stuff on edhrec which the amulets aren't bc of price (wotc pls).

@qwormuli77

Жыл бұрын

Goblin Anarchomancer is a budget allstar for me and good for many non-budget deck, too.

Would have liked to see your thoughts on some of the more recent ramp like deep gnome terramancer, archaeomancers map etc and where they would fall in this list

@qwormuli77

Жыл бұрын

I think it could be argued that they are more of counter ramp cards than actual ramp, as they do better with fewer (land) ramp cards in your deck and don't get you ahead by default. In decks without land ramp, though, they're really, really, strong.

I like that you said we couldnt guess when Moxfield plug would come but then you had it visible in alphabetical order from the start. 🤣

Yo, Joe, fresh new cut! You're looking fresh and clean, props to your barber!

Could you please keep a small image of the card you’re talking about underneath the video window for the duration that the card is being discussed? Tyia

A very underrated ramp card in my opinion, is priest of titania, it not only taps for your elves dorks but also your opponent's. You can easily get 4 mana by turn 2 with it

One piece of synergy that places the land auras above dorks for me is land untappers. Kiora's follower, voyaging satyr, some versions of kiora, garruk wildspeaker, franctic search... I've found myself building around that kind of ramp package more often than the usual suspects of three visits, sakura, etc. I even end up including the other land auras that cost more a lot of the time.

@CmdrUD87

Жыл бұрын

Vizir of the Sands

I think that Cultivate and Kodama's Reach become more valuable in decks with a critical mass of 1-mana dorks. It's much better going turn 1 dork, turn 2 Cultivate than turn 1 dork, turn 2 Three Visits.

@qwormuli77

Жыл бұрын

But if you have mana dorks, you probably have either creature or graveyard synergies. Those decks would choose 3 mana creature ramp and spells like Primal Growth, which benefit from the same mana cost.

@golgariguy

Жыл бұрын

@@qwormuli77 Yeah, also. Depends on the deck and on how many ramp spells you want!

Must say I just watched a video from 2 years ago and Joe looks like he has lost some weight since then. Keep up the great work.

Mirari's Wake is not ramp, it's a wincon :)

You mentioned a lot about how Harrow works for landfall decks, but don't forget about the power of Harrow in graveyard decks! There's plenty of decks that are just happy to throw a land into the bin incidentally, and Harrow is more than happy to oblige.

@henryzelman4541

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I can’t imagine cutting Harrow in gitrog

Nice, a video and it's my birthday =D

signet and talisman in the same square is tuff cause getting your 1 mana on the turn you play it can be huge

Hey dudes, I was wondering of there's a reason you don't keep the card you're talking about up until you're ready to place it. If you're not watching the video straight through, it gets hard to follow what you're talking about.

Elves of the deep shadow is the newest mana dork I found that I love now

I am watching this and realising how much of a "ramp privilage" i have playing Derevi (not stacks for god's sake).

Sooo as a newish commander player, if I play a lot of 1-Mana Dorks, do I still play the 2 mana ramp spells over cultivate/kodama's reach? I mean a turn two cultivate seems better than a turn two three visits.

@sunstrid3r44

Жыл бұрын

If you have a consistent way to play mana dorks on turn 1 you can jam a bunch of 3 mana ramp in your deck no problem! If you almost always have 3 mana on turn 2 it is usually better to play the most powerfu or useful/synegistic 3 mana ramp than 2 mana ramp

I like the 3 Mana fetch a land dorks like wood elves and Farhaven elves in my Adrix and Nev deck (with a landfall subtheme ofc) as all my 2 Mana ramp is either a spell or just Steve anyway, and it's great to have ramp options that synergize with your commanders gameplan Steve deserves his A-tier spot, put him under mimic vat!

@sharkmanyt4431

Жыл бұрын

Who the f is Steve

@spudster8887

Жыл бұрын

@@sharkmanyt4431 sakura tribe elders nickname is steve

@sunstrid3r44

Жыл бұрын

I love fetch-dorks (even that one from... m19? m20? The elf that fetchs from the top 5 cards) in my Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire deck The synergy is amazing and my playgroup is balanced in a way that 3 mana ramp isnt as harmful as i see people saying

@sharkmanyt4431

Жыл бұрын

@@spudster8887 oh yeaahhhh

Man I haven’t played as much magic since the pandemic started. Love your content.

Shoutout to my man Dreamscape Artist, the jankiest blue ramp you ever did see

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

I have him in an Oskar deck, and he is SOOO good there

I think one thing that needs to be taken into account with cultivate is purely just how large your commander is. If your commander is only 4-5 mana, cultivates drawing of a basic is somewhat meaningless, you hit 4 mana after playing it. However, if your commander is 6 or more mana, the ability to reliably continue playing lands turn on turn isn't something to simply ignore. It still isn't close to being the best ramp spell. Skyshroud claim still kicks it in the dick, and all of the two mana ramps that allow you to pull out dual lands are better too. But when there's a more long term goal, and you're not playing your ramp spell on 2 or 3 with the intention of the next turn being a pop off, rather just another stepping stone, I'd say it certainly has a better place there.

Happened like 3 days ago: Turn 1: Island, Solring, Arcane Signet Turn 2: Coral Atoll (bouncing the Island), Thassa God of the Sea (Commander) Turn 3: Island, Caged Sun Turn 4: Island, Expropriate (gaining control of all commanders and table surrenders) After that game Expropriate got banned from my playgroup. Now was it the Expropriate or the Sol ring that caused the problem?

@sharkmanyt4431

Жыл бұрын

Expropriate

@qwormuli77

Жыл бұрын

Both. Edit: Props on that Thassa as a commander, though. Have had one bouncing around since OG Theros and haven't actually though about helming a deck with it. Might you have a list for your deck anywhere?

What do you guys think of „Rampant Rejuvenator“? I knie 4mana Ramp cards are not really good, but the Potential that that card has is just so big. I personally play it in my Mazirek Sacrifice Counter Deck. Through my Commander and other Support cards I can make all my Team including the Rampant Rejuvenator really big and then make it hard for my enemies to swipe the Board cuz otherwise I’ll just get even more value through ramping and filtering out so many lands of of my deck. Oh and not to forget that those Lands come untapped Even exile effects are useless against it because I always have a sac outlet ready and wait to Play my Commander and other cards that wanna get big quickly until I’m set-up

I definitely don't agree with you on talismans, but I understood the point you were making. In off color decks however, they are impressive. Baiting out removal on my artifact ramp is top tier, although I find my opponents wait for my better artifacts and enchantments anyway. Mind stone draws you a card and taps for colorless while talismans color fix in non green decks, saving you space for more spells. How are they poop???

I don't think the fear of harrow getting countered is justified for where it is on the list. At least in my group and LGS people save counters for the big game winning stuff

Shout out to my fav mana rock: Inspiring statuary! I love me some tapping my equipment for mana! Or treasures, or vehicles. Dumping all that mana into a nice x spell like genesis wave or a fireball effect

Moxfiekd solid S tier. If I start with a battlefield full of moxen I’m gonna run away with that game quickly

Its a kinda specific ask, but id love a generic tribal support tier list! The best cards that can support any tribe (assuming colors)

Hair looking clean Joe

I know this will be a weird one, but Victory Chimes is secret tech ramp IMO. I've been using it in my oloro deck and man, getting the big guy to draw EVERY turn for basically free is insane. Ayli activating every turn is like psudo board wiping. Pretty much every 1 colorless mana activated ability becomes 3 times as powerful with Victory Chimes.

Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth are great because they so innocuous. People save their spot removal for bigger targets so they're sticking around unless there's a wipe. I undervalued them for a long time, and now I slam them in every deck I can

I only have Faeburrow in my Reaper King commander deck. It's the only place I've found a home for it despite loving the card.

Haven’t watched the video but you already KNOW the moxfield ad is at 16:32

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

Close but NO CIGAR

@matthewbell4897

Жыл бұрын

@@NitpickingNerds The grind never stops 😤

A lot of ramp is very deck dependant. In my Atraxa deck, I'd much rather use cultivate and kodama's reach than mana dorks, because most dorks make green only, while these two, while slower, fix my colors. Since in my group, we don't run expensive lands. So fixing colors, even with basics, is really good. And Atraxa is 7, so I have plenty of time to ramp up with 3 mana ramps. Command Sphere is still really good in 4-5 mana decks, or any deck that doesn't run green. So yeah this topic is very debatable with each and every deck.

Liked the video. What about mana vault??

I think the fact that Mirari's Wake enables explosive turns after you untap with it should help give it a higher rating. Sure, I understand your rationale for saying it costs 5 mana, then you untap with it and get the mana back and are only "breaking even", but now you can cast spells up to 10 mana value, or up to 12 if you play an untapped land on that turn. Casting spells up to between 10 and 12 mana are game changing/winning. Mirari's Wake may be inefficient to cast as a sort of ramp spell, but if not dealt with can win you the game shortly after.

@qwormuli77

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. People tend to consistently forget the heavy upsides of stockpiling mana or splitting mana costs, while still remembering the heavy disadvantage of large single costs. It goes both ways. Mirrari's wake is still a risky investment, though.

@zacharybecker8228

Жыл бұрын

It's also an anthem that helps token decks alot

Where does sevinnes reclamation fall? One of my favorite ramps!

I reduced the decks in which I run cutivate. I agree that 3 mana ramp is just kinda bad atm (which is a real shame, since I love the slower commander gameplay). But the upside of cultivate, when you don't have lands lands in hand just feels sooooo damn good. In that sense nature's lore feels kinda bad, since if you dont have a land in hand you just payed 1 mana for your land drop. Don't get me wrong 2 mana ramp is better, but the feelsgood part of 3 mana can be kinda nice

Moxfield really is the best ramp spell. Glad you guys were able to highlight that 👍 PS. Mr. Cherries, Loooookin’ Gooooood bb! Whatever you are doin’ it’s workin’ 🔥

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

Awww thanks for the compliment means a lot to me

Beezy's smile is very infectious

So I heard something with sakura-tribe elder with skullclamp. Do you get the 2 draw and the land if you put skull clamp on sakura-tribe elder?

@qwormuli77

Жыл бұрын

Not by default. SBA makes Steve die before you have the priority to activate and sac him, so you just get the two cards. But any toughness boost does enable that play and nets you the land. Still a great option for the late game, though.

@GripCitadel

Жыл бұрын

Try Bequeathal

Big disagree on faeburrow elder, in your 3+ colour decks its realistically another bloom tender. A 3 mana dork thats tapping for 3+ mana per turn? Thats a threat that people have to deal with or you will get out of hand pretty fast. Also putting skyshroud claim above it is kinda funny, when skyshroud is EXTREMELY clunky, to the point of basically being unplayable unless you're a lands deck. If 3 mana ramp isn't where we wanna be, 4 mana ramp is in the realm of wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

@ed8054

Жыл бұрын

I was going to say this exact thing. Honestly, decks with white and want bloom tender would also run faeburrow. In those decks its 80% as good.

@spudster8887

Жыл бұрын

@@ed8054 Another card i think far too many people sleep on, outside enchantress is sanctum weaver. If your deck has like 7 other enchantments, slap her in your deck. In casual games, i think people heavily underrate ramp that will scale with the game

@ed8054

Жыл бұрын

@@spudster8887 I can agree with that. Sanctum weaver also has the benefit of going infinite with tons of stuff. I will say it depends on the playgroup though. Ive played with groups where they all have tons of removal for all kinds of permanents, so artifact ramp was useless. Wayfarer's bauble was S tier in that game lol.

@spudster8887

Жыл бұрын

@@ed8054 The way i see it is, if they're blowing their removal on my ramp, im just going to combo off in their face once they're down expending said removal haha

@mthlay15

Жыл бұрын

B for faeburrow elder for sure

I like the new hair, but in some camera lighting it looks completely gray and I do a double take like “did Joe age 20 years overnight?”

I definitely think the green signets/talismans work well in 3+ color decks because they are the fastest unrestricted casting cost that won't punish you for not having a forest in your opening hand.

@qwormuli77

Жыл бұрын

With five (and to an extent four) mana decks I can see your point, but if your three color green deck with green ramp doesn't have a green heavy manabase to employ that ramp and subsequently fix itself, what are you doing with your manabase? And most 5 color decks tend to require (IMHO) really pricy manabases to not constantly sputter, which tends to fix that with the power of hundreds of dollars in cardboard overpowering signets by default.

People sleep on the sheer power of Hour of Promise. Every Hazezon deck runs it, but don’t get distracted by the Desert clause or the zombies - they are incidental. Two lands no conditions is extremely strong - get Urborg and Coffers, get Dark Depths and Thespian’s Stage, get Field of the Dead and anything. It is ramp as a finisher, and it is savage.

I thought the Moxfield plug was going to be Mox Diamond!

You guys should a get NN stickers to go over the hp logo on the laptop until they're a sponsor :)

I think your evaluation of green signet and talisman is a bit off, first it’s fixes you if you don’t have acces to green mana which happens sometimes it’s 2 mana colourless untapped can lead to crazy turn with sol ring

@colinhofer7830

Жыл бұрын

Agreed.

The moxfield ad will be at 19:38 This guess was done at 1:25 I will reply when I get it right

@DionHB

Жыл бұрын

pretty close, i was hoping you'd go on ranting about Dylan to win for another 30 seconds so that I could say my timestamp was at least within the runtime of the ad...

Sad Robot below Cultivate? Did my boy dirty

Moxfield needs to make an app!

Wait, no Search For Tomorrow? It's a great turn 1 ramp spell! It's at least B tier by approximation, but could be higher

@qwormuli77

Жыл бұрын

Easily as good as Rampant Growth for most decks and often better. Especially good on a budget, as now-a-days it costs cents.

I agree with most of this I personally think harrow is better than cultivate it gives mana back

@sharkmanyt4431

Жыл бұрын

Agreed

I think Wayfarer's Bauble gets a lot better, the less taplands you run. The strength of the Bauble is that it's basically yet another 2 mana mana rock, cause you likely don't have a t1 play in your nongreen deck anyways. But with a somewhat budget manabase, it's more than likely that a tapland will be your t1 play. Sure you might be able to delay that tapland, but if you do, it will just be awkward to play later. That's why I often prefer 3 cost mana rocks, also because you can also go really synergystic with these.

Commanders Sphere shoud bottom of C. Ther is few stuff that i think you missed. 1. The Draw aspect is even more imporent if you draw it late game - this makes it not a "dead" card late in game. 2. Its super "cheap" in $ - i know it dosent metter in them of power. But this one is really cheap - you can like get 1 for each of yours deck and still spend less then 1 good meal :D 3. I dont know why but you never cosider that it cost "zero" colored mana... thats a super importent for lower power level multi colored decks... better then any Green Ramp for thoes deck.

You missed traverse the outlands, animist's awakening and shard convergence. yes, the traverse costs 5 and is dependent on a big creature out but in the decks, it fits in like hydras and or borbarigmose it grabs 7-infinity basics for 5. animist is a x spell that looks at lands from the top of your deck but in a hydra and or borbarigmos deck it's going to hit several and they don't have to be basic. shard convergence cost 4 grab 4 lands. i use it to grab triomes in big dragons.

3 CMC ramp is good in green because you play dorks and curve into it. T1- Llanowar Elf (or variants) into T2- Cultivate is a freaking power move.

@lightningstar-ng9tm

Жыл бұрын

why not turn 1 Llanowar Elf into T2 Nature’s lore, get a shockland, and play something like DRC or Skullclamp? 2 mana is just better than 3

Weirdly enough I find natures lore/three visits/skyshroud claim to be at its worst in 2 color decks since they can’t get both lands and there’s only like 3 non basic forest targets that tap for 2 colors that are already getting hit by fetches (revised dual, shockland, and maybe snow dual)

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

They’re probably at their worst in the enemy colored 2 color green decks, but we still love them. At least Ally colors have the BFZ land and the cycling land

@henryzelman4541

Жыл бұрын

@@NitpickingNerds thank for replying. I'm working on my Gitrog deck and I like the fact that they pull lands for landfall triggers that I can then sac to scapeshift, but at the same time Bayou and Overgrown Tomb are the only fixing I can get with them. Not to mention that I play 10 fetches that I can recur as well as harrow, springbloom druid, and roiling regrowth, so trying to have that many basic land targets is a bit difficult. Might just swap three visits, natures lore, and skyshroud claim, for 3 mana dorks

Not surprising me, moxfield had its own image!

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

You were shocked!

I bet the moxfield ad is somewhere around 16-minute mark

@snowhusk

Жыл бұрын

Two minutes off, ain't bad for a first shot at this mini-game)

Into the North? B-? Similar to Farseek but can get a forest as well but with negative of requiring snow land targets.

@sailorforce

Жыл бұрын

I actually think that Into the North is also better than Farseek, since in addition to snow duals it can also get Dark Depths, Faceless Haven, or Scrying Sheets, should those things matter :)

@sharkmanyt4431

Жыл бұрын

@@sailorforce dark depths is complete and utter crap in commander, and so is faceless haven

I get that I don't need that many rocks in creature decks, but the secret lair Golgari Signet looks way too awesome to not play.

@danielsniff6405

Жыл бұрын

It do be looking nice

I’ve gotten good returns from *Springleaf Drum.* Any creature you have can be a hasty mana dork for the turn.

@brianlinden3042

Жыл бұрын

It needs to be in the right deck, but I always love to see this card in my rat or goblin decks.

@sharkmanyt4431

Жыл бұрын

Springleaf drum is frickin GOOOOOOOD

The value of ramp varies wildly depending on the color you're playing. If you're in blue white, suddenly Gift of Estates goes from mediocre to great because you have no other route to pull land out of your deck. Navigation Orb starts looking good. Nothing is worse than missing a land drop to me, so anything that prevents this is worth a look.

@NitpickingNerds

Жыл бұрын

We are not huge fans of putting lands to hand but I do see the appeal

@dac314

Жыл бұрын

An Orzhov Clerics deck with Sword of the Animist and Journeyer's Kite, cuz we needs the manas, precious

Given that three visits and natures lore only get forest I think they are A tier not S tier. Arcane signet is more universal

@phoenixfeather463

11 ай бұрын

They fetch any land that has the forest supertype. So they can get dual and tri lands as well.

Lets get another list and include more creature ramp like, somberwald sage, joraga treespeaker, goblin archanomaster, selvala, shaman of forgotten ways, Thran dynamo, Mana vault etc.

Thoughts on Traverse the Outlands?

I agree with most of the list except faeburrow elder, it has always done work for me, especially if you’re able to untap it. I’ve generated 20 mana in a turn off of this three mana spell. If anything it’s a b- c+ card, but it’s insane in the decks that it’s in, just a worst bloom tender which is already an amazing card. Definitely an auto include in 4+ color non landfall decks.