Alhamdulillah, Shabir Ally for the clear explanation. I am glad that I stumbled across your earlier speech and lectures. I am following you current channel. May Allah be Pleased with you effort.

All my Christian brothers and sister please have a second look!!!

@mukhtarogle2716

6 жыл бұрын

Jamshed Khokhar read john 5:30. I BELIEVES in WHAT JESUS (PBUH).HIMSELF SAYS. Not his DISCIPLES.and none of DISCIPLES has no LAST NAMES?? Mone of Paul john mark Mathew..... Seen JESUS.!

Great debate!

What a great debate cum dialogue. Enjoyed it. Best of Shabir and Best George came out. Praise be to God.

ISLAM is an ARABIC word and connotes SUBMISSION , SURRENDER & OBEDIENCE .As a religion ,Islam stands for complete submission and obedience to ALLAH . , Everyone can see that we live in an orderly universe , where everything is assigned a place in a grand scheme. The moon , the stars and all the heavenly bodies are knit together in a magnificent system .They follow unalterable laws and make not even the slightest deviation from their ordained courses .

As long as you comprehend, that fine! " the basic of any language is communication" English is a foriegn language to me. I can express my self better in my mother tongue.

I still looking for the answer...did they answer the question?

yes Paul is the Founder of christianity

@behoiderguard4853

10 жыл бұрын

So you do not believe what the Koran teaches? You, the guy with the silly name is able to proclaim that which has been around for thousands of years and been confirmed by the Koran and endless scholars over antiquity are able to just tell us all previous Abrahamic teachings about God are a result of one man, Paul. Wow your arrogance will send you to hell.

@jamalkhan3708

4 жыл бұрын

Aisha and warka was founder of Islam🤣 and don’t forget satanic verses😆

@zzzpal8837

4 жыл бұрын

Tijani - Paul is not founder of christianity - he is the founder of Paulianity. There is no religion called christianity. At least Jesus never preached it. The modern so called 'christianity' is a amalgamated version of Roman paganism and Paul's doctrines.

@cent7169

4 жыл бұрын

@Tony Ang so ur Arab speaking Christian Brothers worship Satan cause they call God as Allah😂

@cent7169

4 жыл бұрын

@@jamalkhan3708 where the hell did u get that ignorant finding 😂🤦‍♂️

Kneeling - 1 Kings 8:54; Daniel 6:10 (and prayed three times per day); Acts 7:60; 20:36; Ephesians 3:14; Philippians 2:9-11. Standing - 2 Chronicles 20:5. Facedown - Numbers 16:22; 20:6; Joshua 5:14; Revelation 7:11. Hands Raised - Psalms 134:2 141:2....nothing about your way

The analogy I gave you about you is the simplest way to explain it to you if you are struggling to comprehend the relationship in the Trinity. The one about you being a Son, a father and a friend,..If you are a Son to your parents, a Father to your children and a Friend to your colleagues, you are looked upon in a different manner but are still the same person..... that is very very easy to understand

He equalled himself with God by uttering those words; that was what pissed the San Hedrin off, not only that his actions also pissed them off; healing people on the Sabbath was totally against their religious rules, making new commandments and proclaiming new rules and telling people what God really wanted as opposed to what the religious leaders wanted....this in totality is further affirmation that Jesus is God, and that he is one with the Father and the Helper, so the 1 God is still intact

Jesus fills you with SO much peace, love, and joy, that you wouldn’t even begin to imagine. Jesus WILL change your life for the better! Every day I wake up and willingly praise Him because of all the love He constantly shows me and provides me with. Jesus Christ is Lord; through Him you'll definitely make it to Heaven. He’s the only way to Heaven. Real worship comes from an intense burning desire within you - it’s not something you do just because you think it’s mandatory. God bless you all. :)

This act is reflective of course in how humanity can be tempted; Yeshua was faced with turning against God but resisted, this is how he teaches us to be, who else is perfect enough to totally resist evil ? Who else is perfect enough to make the perfect message ? It makes complete sense the deeper we go into this whole concept

If you follow the preachings of Jesus Christ,helping those who are in need, peace in your heart..that is almighty..you feel happy always..

May Allah keep blessing you really you give me inspiration I'm the grandson of Ali Dhaka Bangladesh Muhammad

To confirm if "Speculation" or not needs proof, not mere words from unknown people!

The easiest explanation by analogy is yourself; when you are a son to you parents or a brother to your sister and a friend to your pals...what changes in you ?

Dr shabir - calm n composed

Paul is the founder because Jesus did not teach Christianity. Jesus loyal followers were not happy with the hijacking, called him being deceived Satan.

@holdinmcgroin8639

9 жыл бұрын

Abdul Rahman St. Peter and St. Paul preached the same thing, and St. Peter gave St. Paul his full endorsement. They were suspicious of him at first, because he used to be a vehement persecutor of the early Christians, prior to his own conversion.

@harry-qy2fz

6 жыл бұрын

Yaa.. Jesus never did mention/say or spread Christianity.. he knows nothing about the religion of Christianity

So, being a Christian means that you have encountered the true and living God and that you have undergone a change in your heart and soul. It means that you are not restricted to your own concepts of right and wrong in order to please God because you cannot please God by what you do. God will only find pleasure in you through Jesus Christ. To be a Christian means to follow Christ, to desire Him, to fellowship with Him, to be indwelt by Him, and to bring glory to Him in your life.

Anything we say, think or try to know about God must be limited because of our earthly limitations; we can never fully understand this mystery just like we can never fully understand the science behind the Cosmos...yet you would have him (or her) limited to human earthly restrictions. It makes complete sense to our human understanding and relationship for this creator to show his creation how to be ... it's like you showing your own child how to walk, how to talk, how to be a good muslim, simple

The key to this is contained in His words, after the Resurrection: "I ascend to my Father and to your Father" (John 20:17). He always spoke of MY Father, never of OUR Father. He said to the disciples: "Thus then shall YOU pray: Our Father", etc. He everywhere draws the clearest possible distinction between the way in which God was His Father and in which He was the Father of all creatures.

@acesin-et7pp

2 жыл бұрын

Lords prayer "Pray then like this: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Excellent indeed respected big brother Dr Shabir Aly❤ May Allah Subhan wa Taallah bless us all and grant us the Janat ul firdaus Inshallah, Aameen!

good stuff

I was responding to a comment already made, the Trinitarian command is in the Bible several times the command to baptise in the name (singular) of Father, Son and Holy Spirit for example, and the prayer most often used by Islam is the Shema, but of course the Shema actually refers to a unitarian God, check the echad and yachid

Fyi Quran 9 : 30-33 He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! Jesus clearly states that he is a servant of God.

@temporaryaccount5307

Жыл бұрын

Jesus never said that. In fact, per ur profit, he said Jesus was moses’ nephew. The real Jesus said that He and the Father are One. Is allh a father? Nope

@abdisaleh8841

Жыл бұрын

@@temporaryaccount5307 that’s what “John and Paul” (actually unknown authors just wrote that

@temporaryaccount5307

Жыл бұрын

@@abdisaleh8841 lol is that ur way of avoiding answering how ur “all knowing god” and profit made such a mistake? And unknown authors? Is that why u said “John and Paul said that?” Smh Tell me who wrote ur endless array of Qs. I’ll wait.

At 58:22 the Doctor should have taken his declaration of faith

I don't mind either way; just as long as it is on here, where the debate relates

In terms of prayer, it is very helpful when we can relate to Jesus as the human part of God; we can relate to a unique and perfect person with human traits .. this can be good in prayer and thought as we have the most perfect human to copy and reflect upon. That is unique in itself just like the message; an identifiable deity ... that very fact brings God closer to us in prayer terms

So your question is well answered in a simple way, easy to understand, children at playschool pick that up as it is so simple to comprehend and is actually part of our reality in this life..it is even being acted out in these exchanges... we "know" each other in a different sense..but either one of us is still the same. So the next time you have to think about the Trinity; think of yourself

Therefofre...your parents will love you as a Son, your children will love you as a Father and your colleagues will love you as a Friend...in each case you are still you....you have not changed one bit....not one iota...therefore it makes no difference whether you are loved as either of the 3. That is the simple and relevant and accurate analogy

People don't read the scriptures man,, You put it very well redbenss.. Thanks man, May God give people a good eye and understanding to seek the truth

This is an issue that had been debated over the centuries; how does God involve or interact with his creation ? The ancient Greeks who debated even if there was a creator covered this well, long before there was a Yeshua thought about. There is no paradox between a creator and this creator being involved in his creation; that would be limiting what God can do. If God can come as Holy Spirit for example then what is to stop God taking part in his creation in a way his creation can comprehend ?

Have you read the parable of the Prodigal son ? This gives you an idea which is easy to comprehend. There are pointers ... it's like the "wet paint- do not touch" sign ... don't eat of the tree in the middle of the garden..that line has been used so many times in comedy routines, it is about our human nature. The big picture is that mankind doesn't take guidance, makes an arse of things, a saviour comes and saves everyone, think of Superman; Star Wars as they used this idea as picture form

On the Holy Spirit, as with all the other prayers, there is a whole host of them..for example...Act of Consecration to the Holy Spirit On my knees before the great multitude of heavenly witnesses, I offer myself soul and body to Thee, Eternal Spirit of God. I adore the brightness of Thy purity, the unerring keenness of Thy justice, and the might of Thy love....which is just the start of one paryer to the Holy Spirit

@4zX289 and as a muslim (one who submitts his wil to God ) just like jesus (puh) was one who submitted his will to Allah is a muslim I also thank you for watching and your positive comment

So , to avoid the conflict of "favouritism " , the Prophet PBUH him ordered form or his camel to decide the locate by letting it walk and settle in the place that it naturally chooses . This wisdom from the prophet relied solely on his camel solved the problem . ( this was a lesson time for you ) . . * Where in the Bible do you see the riding of the camel Prophecy being fulfilled ? . who in the Bible was the prophet that rode the camel to full the prophecy of Isaiah 21:7 ?

using ONE camera is boring. it would be interesting to show the other human being in the room!how they interact, body language, facial movements, etc.

And it is perfectly logical; it was in ancient Greece that logic was debated so well and often and is the foundation of Philosophy in modern terms. The whole Arostotelian Prime Mover was dealing with a creator that was either involved or had let the world "free wheel" in effect. It is illogical to suggest that if there is a God, he/she would not be able to be involved in the creation; effectively by his act of creation he has already been involved, and since there is no time in God, is involved

"UNLESS, we sincerely repent before God and ask for His forgiveness" - when do you think a woman who commited adultary sincerely repent before GOD and ask for HIS forgiveness? after the 1st or 20th stone ? why does not GOD forgive her?

Whe I recite the Our Father I am using the prayer Jesus taught us when showing how to pray...that very simple prayer is extremely powerful with it's message and content and is prayed to God the Father ... but still to God

Absolutely no problem to answer you. The first one is analogy; very simple and straightforward and you answer it yourself; God showed his love for his creation in a manner that would be easily understood in the time of the day (1st born son) and of today in many cases. 2nd & 3rd, as Jesus is God in human form, did give of himself, but in a way to conquer death (mortality) for US..not for himself; this is salvation of course, 4thly,God didn't kill his Son...we did, and he accepted if freely

We praise the Lord for His wonderful salvation. God the Son became Man and died upon a cross, taking upon Himself the punishment for our sins. When an individual puts his faith in Christ as Saviour, God cleanses and forgives him, and gives him the gift of eternal life (Jn. 3:16; Eph. 1:7).

I've read parts of the Koran; I studied under Jesuit Priests; 1 could read and speak Hebrew and Greek and lived in the Holy Land for many years; one of the others had the Koran as his 2nd favourite Holy Book ...my view is that the Koran is very Old Testament in style; for me..Jesus trumps all because of his inclusiveness and his message being unique and eternal ... but that is only my view; you of course are entitled to yours

His expressions clearly prove that He claimed to be of the same nature with God; and His claims to Divine Sonship are contained very clearly in the Synoptic Gospels, "Did you not know, that I must be about my father's business" (Luke 2:49); "Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven,

I've already stated it is the soul that survives...not our brain which is part of our earthly body; this is common sense, why would you want to deny that ? It is the soul that lives on, this part of you that came from God in essence; going back to God. .... Plus....

are paul came and hear by his ear what prophet jesus speach?

Great philosophers like Avicenna and Aquinas did this long ago for Islam and Christianity respectively; if God is beyond our understanding how else do we come to know him at all in any way ?

Yes..clear

Jesus said, "His words will not Pass away" No need to say "I am God,I am God.." No need to say "I am fasting, I am fasting..." The followers of Jesus are called Christians.. What Paul gained of this?

Nope its described in detail what you can do or not. I rather use messages were we can express thoughts and more information.

and baptise in the name (singular) of Father, Son and Holy Spirit...a trinitarian command. The evidence as set forth in the Bible to confirm Yeshua as God is overwhelming in it's entirety, that is why you needed for example to only give part or a selective line from scripture, because when read in context and entirety it is affirmation beyond doubt

You clearly misunderstand the term Son of God....do you think that means just a straightforward similiar relationship that you have with your father ?

John 14:1-4 “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And you know the way where I am going.” John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

There is no confusion or contradiction in the Trinity...unless you want it to be so; you only need to relate to the analogy of yourself which is a good analogy..aren't we made in his image ? You can use the term of Love which is also important sinced we believe God is Love. If you love your parents and love your children and love your wife...what love is it you use ? Is that 3 different Love's .... or the same ?

Mostchristians don't actually follow what Jesus preached but follow what They think Paul implied.Therefore the debate.

The Father gives of himself completely for both his sons in the parable; this was what God did in coming to earth as man, in amongst his creation; God did not kill God...we killed him as already stated...we do that every time we turn away from God. The Father sacrifices the lamb to celebrate the retunr of the prodigal son, but never...never... rebukes him or has wrath or anger against him...never...so you have a complete loving Father God...See that ?

Christians affirm that there is only One God, not three gods. The doctrine of the trinity states that there is One God in whom there are three subsistent relations (i.e., persons)."Person" does not refer to a "god" in the doctrine of the trinity. We do not believe that there is One God and Three gods; but One God within whom there are three subsistent relations, or eternal modes of relationship.

Since Muslims can’t pick on Jesus Christ because Jesus is Muslims prophet, and perfect sinless man with out any faults. So just to defend Mohammed they pick Paul. So pathetic.

The same God said that nobody can change the words of the god.

That is no description..... what does he look like ? Describe him to me ? Those words are similiar to what is used in the Creed in Catholicism...but you have not described him so that I would know him (or her) if God were to come here on Earth

I have answered it; God is God the Father, Jesus is God the Son and the Holy Spirit is God in spirit ... the analogy is understood by playschool children...really true. Jesus was showing us how to pray ...therefore..he tells us..Our Father in relation to the prayer..there are other times he used the term My Father to denote his unique relationship..all in context...all known and understood long before Islam and Muhammad came to be

Dude it is very clear! even if u pray 5 or 5000 times it is useless, if you dont follow what I said i.e love ur neighbours as u love urself! understand?

It is the same with the prayer he taught us; Our Father who art in heaven etc, but of course he precedes it with...this is how we should pray...it is instructional. Do you think the early Christians didn't check these things ? Of course they did, they were being asked similiar questions then as now; Atheism is older than Christianity, for goodness sake have you ever read the Classics ? The ancient Greek philosophers debated this type of thing hundreds of years before Jesus

Nope, that was a prayer from Psalms he was quoting; it is recorded in the Bible that he was still praying and showing us what to do; good tip to concentrate on God as opposed to all the people we are leaving behind in a sense; which is also part of scripture

Basic Christian theology teaches that Jesus had two natures. He was both divine and human at the same time. This teaching is known as the hypostatic union; that is, the coming-together of two natures in one person.Read Philipians 2:7-8,colossians 2:9. Having explained this, when Jesus says "Our God" it must be understood that Jesus is speaking as a man. But it does not mean he does not possess the divine nature as well.

You are that analogy...you are 1 person who is seen differently by other people...and yet you are the 3 different persons in this relationship..the analogy is very very simple...even the atheists accept this analogy, just as they accept the analogy of water in 3 forms; liquid, steam and ice...just the same

Jeremiah 49: 19:“Like a lion coming up from Jordan’s thickets to a rich pastureland, I will chase Edom from its land in an instant. Who is the chosen one I will appoint for this? Who is like me and who can challenge me? And what shepherd can stand against me?”If Jesus was God,then God is lying according to this verse.In this verse God says nobody can prosecute him,but according to you,he was prosecuted.

Same "esse"...absolutely; confirmed by the people who were there with Jesus, claimed by Jesus himself, by his words, his actions, his "New Commandments" ... all affirmed ...long before Islam came to be

And yet at the same time you wish to question the intellect of the people who were with Jesus, the ones who walked and talked with him, and who were involved with the Apostles; the Apostles who Jesus commanded to baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the Trinity quite clearly from the lips of JC, and all long beofre Islam came to be

While here on earth as part of his mission to show us what and how to pray and be; Jesus prayed to God the Father; his unique Father. Jesus also claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath, another supporting claim to his uniqueness as God

The Nicene Creed gives a full explanation of the relationship between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit; all for human understanding, so God is the Father of Jesus and they are complemented by the Holy Spirit; we might even use the term "joined by" for ease of understanding...your problem is you don't want to understand it.

The Cross is at the centre of Theology; it is reflective of the interaction bewteen Heaven and Earth; God comes to Earth as Man in the form of Jesus; sound theology and mystagogy and highlighting a truth that God would "work for his creation"...does that make sense to you?

God said he will preserve Zikr(Quran),but for gospel and Torah,He entrusted the messengers and Jewish scholars to preserve them,but they didn't.

Islam is the truth!

St paul was a pope or bishop of the early church.

How can the human part not be part of God ? I suggest that ALL there is ...is God..we all go back to God in the end; this is our journey from God to God, plus there is that part of you; your very soul made by God that is beyond corruption and is part of God. This is what the message of Yeshua in the Bible is; God will never shun us or turn away

No; it isn't polytheism. The doctrine of the trinity consists in there being One God in three Persons or subsistent relations. Polytheism is the belief that there is more than one "god", not that within the eternal being of the one God there is three eternal modes of subsistent relations.

According to the NT , only fulfils the riding of the donkey prophecy in John 12:14 , and it claims that it only fulfilled that prophecy . There is still a missing fulfilment of the riding of the camel in the New Testament . . Perhaps you can ask that HOLY GOAT of yours to answer you this question and my two challenges about if it was not Muhammed PBUH !

Muslims have to justify MohMad as a prophet to contradict something. They can’t pick Jesus because Jesus is their prophet. And they can’t pick original first century disciples so they are picking on Paul.. pathetic Islam........ But we are proud of Paul.

@Ttcopp12rt

4 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/m2dtq7yElK_gmps.html Debating a similar topic on Paul with a Muslim in 2 days

@cent7169

4 жыл бұрын

Almost half of the New testament is written records from Paul, where are the written documents of the remaining 11 apostles (I removed Judas the traitor)?

The angel Michael controls the thunder

Also I want to take some of my words back. Which is "Your anti-islam cover is blown"

So, to the Hebrews, this term I AM is clearly of such significance; Jesus uses it sevral times when giving great discourse; I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE, etc and all these are well known long before Islam came to be. It is when Jesus uses these two words that Caiphas tears his cloak, a reflection of tearing the temple veil and is an affirmation from Jesus own mouth as to who he believed he was; all known and understood even by the atheists, long before Islam was here

Jesus had a body, was a real person, was worshipped and is relevant to mankind, he was dark skinned and brown eyed with black hair we can assert; given the location and time where he came from, but that he was real is undoubtedly true ... and we can legitimately pray to him since he is God and part of the Trinity...simple

I understood your comment, I just don't accept it or agree, there are certain things we can say are against God; i.e: being or doing evil for example, but for God to take on the whatever form he wishes, in the OT he was portrayed as a burning bush by Moses, this offended no-one but when we suggest a man; as Yeshua claims, it is seen as abhorrent but not to Christianity since it was founded on this fact and long before Islam came to be; there is no contradiction I suggest that is incompatible

Do you have a bible of what Jusus sais

I'm really not interested in converting anyone, if you are happy in your beliefs and harm no-one and help others then that is good, I'm sure there are atheists who live better than a lot of the most religious people...of all faiths. This is certainly the meaning of the parable of the Good Samaritan and it applies today.

Now we can go deeper in theology; Thomas Aquinas in the middle ages is the great doctor of the Catholic Church, at the time his great Summa's went into God and humanity and mankind in miniute detail. Issues such as the esse' of each individual being were covered as well as that of God; a vast work on God....the bottom line is that in the Trinity...the essence of God remains; just as in you. You are still you whether you are brother, friend or son. It works perfectly. God is still God

And of course Jesus giving of himself...freely in the way he did...is like giving your life for your children...who wouldn't do that ? This is the real message as proclaimed by JC, love the Lord your God and the next is nearly the same, love your neighbour as yourself...everyone covered there; we just need to practise it now...good luck to those of faith and none

Well you would need first of all not to lie or be deceptive; we both know this is allowed in Islam... and don't get upset...I don't allow anyone to upset me irrespective of what they say or claim or imply, apart from that all is okay

And also as already said; the Christians of the time were challenged; God has always been questioned; Atheism is older than both Christianity and Islam, people were asking similiar questions then as you do today, the evidence to support the Trinity and Jesus is overwhelming in it's entirety...but you still never answered one question...are you a son to your parents; brother to your sister; friend to your colleagues ? Peace be with you too

I suggest it does, man didn't listen too weel when God was a burning bush and the commandments written on stone; how else would he show us "how to be" other than to be human ? Yeshua was foretold in the prophecies, so in effect the covenant God made with man ( a special one) was kept by God...but not man, so it makes complete sense for God to take whatever form he wishes and the best form for us as a "role model" is as the perfect man...Jesus, this is the concept and it makes complete sense.

It really is an indication of how little of the scriptures you are aware; the prone position in prayer was used by Christians long before Islam came to be Sonny, Jesus didn't pray as the Muslims do; he was a Jew, they pray mostly upright plus Jesus did not follow the Islamic prayer times (?) and there are lots of other references to prayer in the Bible...here are some

Everything I have written is relevant, true and makes sense, we are going over here issues such as Jesus being God and the Trinity which were all investigated and debated long before Islam came to be; Atheism and other God were around then; the birth of intellectual debating was ancient Greece where the creation by God (s) or none was thought and written and talked about, there are historical records to show what happened during the early Christian history other than the Bible

You never answer one question do you .... I was comparing the attributes of the Trinity..not the Trinity itself; you apply 99 attributes to Allah (there may be more ?) I was using 3 attributes of the Trinity...that is the correct way to use analogy

You have not even begun to understand what Christians believe about Jesus. The Christian teaching is that Jesus is "truly God and truly man". You have understood the first part of this statement but not the second ("truly man"). Within the one person of Jesus there are two natures- one divine and the other human. The nature of a thing determines how we speak about that thing. Since Christ has two natures we have two ways of speaking about him. Think about it.

You end up in a semantic wordplay, going round in circles when the analogy you are given is self explanatory....you do accept you are a Son to your parents...a Father to your children...and a Frined to your colleagues...don't you...If you cannot accept that fact then you would be denying a reality

And it is clear from the proposal you made for example with Mark that the Islamic interpretation is to suit Islam, so it depends on what way you wish to interpret it, but clearly the answer provided from the Christian view trumps the Islamic one, just as the idea of Jesus as God does also, but of course this was not reached in order to upset Islam; it wasn't around then, it was reached as an experience of living Jesus and what he claimed as well as acted out.

God did not come to undersdatnd how man works; he knows full well, he came to show us how to be...this is the point and this is the claim

I disagree with that completely...how can man be bigger than God ? Take for example the idea that in order to show "humanity how to be to each other" (and isn't this very relevant today?) God came here on Earth as "perfect man" to fully show humanity how to act and treat each other and treat God ? All the evidence in the Bible is supportive of this viewpoint