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Excellent and a very useful review! Having watched your playthrough (another video), I had exactly the same impression. In one word, "clunky".

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, the word clunky is spot on. I'm glad you found the review (and other vids) useful.

@tommcdermott11

Ай бұрын

I agree. Had high hopes for this game, bought it right when it came out, was so frustrated with it, I sold it immediately. Some players love it, so to each his own, etc.

I played my first base game last night (Stalingrad mini game) and it took me close to five hours (I'm a slow learner). The outcome was close to the historic result and I enjoyed the play, difficult decisions to make, damn BB results when you don't expect them and I got the 6th Army out of Stalingrad just in time. I agree with you that it isn't a beginner's wargame, but I really like it, it would take me months to play 'The Dark Valley' for example (I like 'The Dark Sands', much smaller in scope). Anyway, thanks for your honest review.

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Of course, my friend, it's my pleasure, whether a majority of people agree with my opinion or not.

Thanks! I appreciate your review greatly. I like your fast delivery, your clear-thinking, and your nice explanation. And, I agree with your Pros and Cons; as well as your Final Thoughts. You have stated them better than I can. This game is not what I thought I read it was supposed to be: "even faster and easier" (GMT website), or "super simple" (consimworld). Nor does it allow one to "effortlessly resolve all battle outcomes" (GMT website). At its core, I think it must have originally been super-simple. But, it is not any longer. I also play a lot of complex games of many different types (I am not a "traditional hex and counter gamer"); but I find myself constantly digging into the rules here even after many hours of pushing pieces and working through the playbook. It is definitely not a game to use to bring a non-wargamer into the hobby. Nor is it game that allows you to finish in a couple hours of playing. It is a disappointment as it ended up being some sort of hybrid mess.

Very well articulated review. Spot on with my thoughts as well. I found "basic game" to be more confusing than anything, and generally a waste of time. You're better off just jumping straight to the full rules rather than struggling between two booklets. The player aids are also missing important game turn details. If I put this game down for a couple weeks or so, I'm gonna be forced to reread the entire rulebook since there are some important phases steps, and details that are buried in the book that don't appear on the player aids. This is extremely frustrating. And also, the designer's response to player requests on reworking those important game components was pretty much: "I'm not paid enough for this". Needless to say, I'll be selling this one and won't be buying again from that designer.

Wayne, thanks for the overview. I have this game on order and I’ve been studying the rules for about a week now. Went through the Playbook example of play also. I do agree the stated play time is too optimistic. This is going to be a tough one. On a positive note I see the designer, Carl Paradis, being very active and willing to answer any and all questions on BGG. 👍That’s a huge plus for me. This one is going to take some patience. What initially sold me on this game was the map design. Area AND hexes. Plus the war crimes sites. Never saw that in a game. Having visited Auschwitz twice, I like the rule granting a WSP for capturing these sites. In wrapping up as long as Carl keeps supporting his game, we’ll figure this one out.

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Go for it Jeff! And it's great Carl supports his designs after the fact. Not all designers do.

Maybe the intent of the advertising of this game as great for beginners was more along the lines of; great for a seasoned player who has learned this game to be able to introduce it to a new player? Arwulf made the great comment that the best game for a new player was one that one of your friends knows how to play and is willing to teach you, and that you have an interest in. Of course, if that's the case with this game, it could have been more clearly stated in the advertising for this game. Just a thought though. I don't know that I would call this a negative review, you were very clear about your pros & cons, but in a very straightforward way and not at all in a disparaging or negative way. I would just call this an honest review based on your tastes and preferences, which is all any of us can really do. Good vid.

@carlparadis1280

2 жыл бұрын

Yes this is the intent of the Basic Game: easy to teach to a newbie. I did this in about 20 minutes with new players. Spme people will like it, some not, like any game design you cannot please everyone. Hopefully it will not discourage some of the players out there that would otherwise give it a try. But hey, there are hundreds of designs out there to chose from, so everybody should be able to find the right fit for their gaming tastes. :-)

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent points Robert. I definitely would have liked to have seen more accurate advertising. In any case, thank you for the kind comments, as always, I just want to share my thoughts (and why I'm thinking them). Then let you all make your own choices with that information in mind.

@laufetc

2 жыл бұрын

@@carlparadis1280 I don't think it is a matter of "taste" as you suggest. I like area games, I like card draw mechanisms, I like clever mechanics, I like the East Front, and I like strategy games .... so this should fit a nice sweet spot. However, it seems that the concepts that are clear to you are poorly presented in the rules and play aids. Many mistakes are made by players after repeatedly reading and re-reading the rules, play aids, and playbook. There might be a really good game in the package, and it might be clear to you. But, there are too many places to stumble along the way.. After 3 full attempts to play and about 20 hours of study/playing, I can only say that I still haver to keep looking up the rules. That is decidedly NOT a simple game to learn.

Love your Honest reviews, Wayne!!

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Nice seeing you here Tom, and of course I appreciate the kind comment.

One thing is for shure, it is not as light as it seems at first sight.But for me this is a great plus. I enjoy it because of this. It is a great level of complexity with satisfying depth. And for this it play very smooth, fast and the Rules as such are not that much. It reminds me a bit of , Bayonets and Tomahawks, in the way of a new and bit more modern interpretation is done and the complexity is more up then you think at first. And insight of depth and posibilitys comes with more plays. Your games in most of your reviews are tend to be on the lighter side, and maybe this one is simply not what you was suspecting. It is not a light game. In my opinion, your points in the review speak more of personal preverence than for game design. What the game does and the way it want to represent it, is really fresh, interesting and at least for me, coherent. I like your reviews but for this my Opinion is very different. Just wanted to say. Thanks for all your very good Videos and your way to look at the world of games!!! Greetz from the Black Forest, Germany ! Volker

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the comments, Volker. Obviously, we disagree on multiple things (I find the combat system over-engineered, and the rules a slog), but as you said, it is OK we have different opinions. If you are enjoying the game, then definitely don't let my thoughts or anyone else's stop you!

They said this game would be more easy to learn than No retreat russian front which I have, but it is not the case. I gave the rules a read thru twice then put it on the shelf where it has been collecting dust ever since. I did not even punch out the counters.

@WayneHansen

Жыл бұрын

I agree James. It's definitely not a beginner/easy game.

Thanks for the honest review. I sort of considered getting the game, but not now. Good Job.

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Always glad to share my opinion, you know that by now Mike!

Received this game a few days ago and struggling with the rules too. The answer from the designer is to use de Basic Game BUT for the Basic Game you need All the rules anyway AND take in account the exceptions that make the game “basic” so there is more things to consider. Player some games like Pendragon and Hitlers Reich but this one thinking in selling because not sure how much more time and effort to make work.

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

You're not alone, unfortunately. And while I respect the designer, Carl Paradis, I take issue with his statement that the game is easy to learn because he can teach someone how to play in 20 minutes. I imagine most of us would have a far easier time learning games if we had the chance to sit down with the designer!

Thanks again buddy for the review, its tough being a solo player wanting so much to enjoy a 2 player game in solo mode when there really isn't one.I'm sure I will enjoy this one more with an opponent but I'm gonna give it a whirl solo anyway..Take Care

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, exactly David! Hey, give it a shot, worst case you don't like it, best case you found a new game you like to play.

Thanks for the video. AW was supposed to be an easy alternative to No Retreat. Think I'll stick with No Retreat.

Thank you for this video and your play-through video. Both very much appreciated. Absolutely agree, as stated on the GMT site, "...making it perfect for introducing new gamers to the hobby..." Ummm, I don't think so. A game like Undaunted Normandy is a good game for beginners in the wargaming hobby, not this one. I got this game mainly because the GMT site said this was faster and EASIER to play than No Retreat, and it's not. It's not harder, and maybe, a tiny bit, it's easier. But yeah, I agree, I really had to grind to grok the rules. Maybe if you are one who is used to playing Empire of the Sun and Paths of Glory every week this would be "easier", but not for me. (It would have been really nice if that 4 page "beginner" rulebook was all that one really needed to read to actually play the game--that would have been great).

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

My pleasure Gordon and thank you for sharing your thoughts on the game.

Interesting stuff, thanks Wayne. I was thinking of giving this a try but waited for your review as it seems our tastes sometimes cross (I think you pointed out somewhere on BGG!). I might wait for No Retreat when it is re-vamped, sounds like you haven't had a go at that one yet?

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Nope, haven't touched No Retreat Russian Front yet. I've eyed it over the years, in fact I think I even owned it once, but didn't get an opportunity to play it.

I hated the rulebook and found a bunch of errors in it when I tried to learn the game before it was released. This was quite a while ago. I wasn't a playtester or anything. I just happened to find the game on BGG. I posted about those errors on BGG and first the designer seemed thankful and even offered a free copy of the game. But when I kept finding more errors and posting about them he sent me a private message telling me to delete my posts and stop exposing any more errors because it was bad publicity. This was offensive to me so I declined the free copy of the game and of course didn't delete any of my posts. I couldn't learn the game from the rulebook btw despite wasting many hours on it. I even created a personal TTS module for it. The example of play in the Playbook had multiple errors too.

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Some (emphasis some) designers and publishers are less willing to accept criticism than others. There may be a reason my comped review copies have slowed to a crawl. It's definitely not the channel, as we are one of the largest wargame channels on YT. I think it has more to do with my honest reviews.

I quite like game, but as you said its unlike any other and takes time to learn all those different mechanics. This basically is 2 player game, solo you can but its not so good as many others solo.

Thanks for making the video, very well made! I do not agree with all your comments of course, especially about the Combat system. You did not seem to have tried the Basic Game: it plays super fast and is much easier, you should not dismiss it out of hand, this was the version made for beginners! And sorry to see you did not like the game much, my « No Retreat! The Russian Front » would be more to your liking then, as it’s more « classical » in design, did you ever tried it?

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Carl, thank you for taking the time to respond, and being so calm about it. Not all designers react as well to a negative review. It is a sign of a professional. About the Basic Game, it's true I did not try it; my reasons why are in the video, so I won't rehash them here. I have not played No Retreat Russian Front, but I would like to someday.

Curious how you would compare this game to No Retreat: The Russian Front. The similarity between the two games had me hesitant on getting this. Thanks

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately I haven't really played the No Retreat series. Ok, that's a lie, I've dabbled in a game or two... but I don't know enough to make an informed comment on them. I would like to pick up NR: Russian Front and really dig into it.

Good review. Btw, Riga is pronounced like "Ree-gah", not "Rai-gah"

Once again, well done Wayne. The Cons you listed are basically the same ones that over time ruined the No Retreat series for me, so you should avoid those too. I watch your videos because I really like your presentations, and the honesty aspect (which comes across clearly as explained) is readily evident (sadly, this cannot be said of many reviewers). Keep ‘em coming, please!

@carlparadis1280

2 жыл бұрын

I beg to differ, he should like at least the first game (Russian Front) especially since the solitaire module is way more involved, and also the second. these are extremely fast-playing. The third and fourth are more involved, but the difficult topics needed it. :-)

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Steve. Question for you, is the Russian Front No Retreat game filled with less chrome? Have had several people recommend it to me.

Thank you Wayne Hanson for a thorough and excellent review. I don't have this game, but it does seem a little bit clunky to me. I think I'll pass on this one. Have you played the No Retreat game? What is your opinion of that game. I currently own the Avalon Hill Stalingrad, and The Russian Campaign, games, both with the updated John Cooper counters. Those games play fine.

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Hey John. I haven't played No Retreat enough to form a strong opinion, although I did enjoy what I did play. I'm looking at getting Russian Campaign reprint from Compass Games but my preorder hasn't shipped yet.

I actually love the combat system in this game, while a wargamer might prefer the classic add up strength and divide, for someone coming from outside it is much more intuitive and easier to grasp and compare strength of units.

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

Not picking on you Mikolaj, but these kinds of comments make me laugh. When it comes to Absolute War I have heard the equivalent of both "It sounds like you don't know wargames" AND "It sounds like you expected a wargame" 🤔

@mikolajwitkowski8093

2 жыл бұрын

@@WayneHansen I think you may be missing my point, let me explain, my partner has recently become interested in wargames, coming from mostly eurogame background. For her the classic divide 20 by 12 and look at the table is a turnoff. This combat system makes more sense to her.

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

I think people are going to view this game through a lens made of their own experience and expectations. I did, and found the final product underwhelming. But I've heard from different types of people who disagree with my final thoughts on the game, and their reason why my opinion is wrong is hilarious. I have old wargamers that say the game is more complex than I'm comfortable with (laugh) so thats why I didnt like it. And I've heard from eurogamers that the game is not like most wargames, its easier, therefore I must have been expecting a complex game (wrong).

@mikolajwitkowski8093

2 жыл бұрын

@@WayneHansen sure and I am not saying you're wrong, simply that while you may not see the benefit of the combat system someone with different background may.

@WayneHansen

2 жыл бұрын

That goes for anything I said. I think the game is harder to learn than it should be based on the complexity and experience you get out of it, others may disagree. I do not believe it is a beginner game despite what the designer calls it, others may disagree. I do not think the Basic game book is well designed as it forces you to check the regular rulebook for certain rules and systems, others may disagree. I could go on. This review is my opinion, others may, and do, feel differently.