Never knew what upside downs are better thanks for explaining

@Shivin_Sachdeva

9 күн бұрын

😂

@agustincuevae

9 күн бұрын

They aren't, depends on components inside, not the position

@WillPower46

9 күн бұрын

Conventional forks that are correctly sprung for your weight and have emulators fitted will be better to ride with than a $10 000 pair of USD forks that are over sprung which is often the case. As with all suspension unless it is correctly set up with the correct spring weight and oil viscosity, air gap and valving for the conditions where you ride the USD forks will be far too “hard” and make riding bumpy roads absolutely brutal.

@Tonyx.yt.

4 күн бұрын

​@@WillPower46why are you spreading lies😂?

@OldManShoutsAtClouds

Күн бұрын

​@WillPower46 so conventional wins when it's absolutely best case scenario for conventional and absolutely worst case for inverted forks. Got it... lol

What I really learned from this video was finally, WTF unsprung weight is

I have had both, for everyday riding there are not much differences, but when you push a little, upside down forks gives you more confidence of control

MAN LOVE THE COLOUR ON THE R1

Solid comparison! The thing I'd add in support of right side up forks is them being more compliant, even when set to a stiffer setting, as they have quite a bit more flex built in than usd forks. I actually figured this out by accident one time when rebuilding a set of air forks and, after having lowered them 2" and shortening the springs, forgot to air them up. The forks were bottomed out and I took the bike out for a ride. Obviously big hits here rough (like riding a BMX bike) but just riding around on surface streets at traffic pace, it wasn't that bad. There's always going to be a baseline of compliance built in to non USD forks that you really can't get with the rigid USD forks, and it's why I don't use them on any of my builds.

@exothermal.sprocket

9 күн бұрын

Certain flex, yes, but they also have a lot of unwanted flex, as in, the forks stop remaining parallel and the front axle starts pointing in directions that the triple tree is not, or when the motorcycle frame starts to lean over into a curve, the front tire doesn't follow that angle exactly because of "splay". This can get very dangerous in some cases if a motorcycle is being used for racing or someone is putting a lot of speed and power into it, as these flexy fork issues can start dangerous steering oscillation and cause a wreck.

The “why” conventional was standard is almost right, but it’s not really about seals being better today. It’s about potential damage to the stanchions CAUSING leaks. You can see this reflected in the design of front fenders today: Even the best seals can’t seal against a pitted and rusted stanchion. It’s easier to protect them on conventional forks because they are further away from the road. Closer to the road is where they will get sand-blasted by road debris. Conventional orientation often puts the sensitive parts behind a fairing or windscreen to protect them from the elements too. Look at the front fender design of a 2007 EX250F or EX250H compared to a 2008 EX250J/K. Both bikes have conventional forks, but can you put your finger on what makes the updated fender design look more modern? It’s the extra side fins protecting the forks. That’s right: The 2008-current Ninjette is pretending it has USD forks to look more modern so it can play with the big boys. ;) Yeah. It’s better to have a conventional fork if your seals are leaking but it’s also less likely to leak and leaks aren’t always the seal’s fault.

@langhamp8912

9 күн бұрын

Conventional forks used to have a big problem when the rider ahead of you kicked up debris and tiny bits of sand into the forks but all that went away when fork protectors became standard. I don't think I've seen a recent conventional fork bike without fork protectors. I don't think it matters much compared to the better quality suspension components we now get on modern bikes. The last three bikes I've owned have high and low speed compression damping which makes a huge difference.

My little 200 cc has shown adjustable conventional forks at front and I am pretty happy with it

At 96 yamaha thunderace still had conventional fork. With massive 48mm inner tubes. R1 had usd at 98. R6 had normal for very long time.

I had regular forks on my '08 Suzuki SV1000S (which is a powerful, yet chilled sport tourer), which was fine, but the bike did feel "spongy" and not as direct in corners, very comfortable though. Then later I had an '09 Honda CBR600RR, which had USD forks, and obviously, being a sport bike, it felt much more stiff, snappy and direct in corners, but a bit more uncomfortable on longer rides, etc. But overall, I love the look and feel of USD forks, I was actually even considering doing the GSXR1000 fork mod on my SV1000S, which is apparently a very nice upgrade to the SV1000S.

Another thing to note, the fancy golden coatings on the shiny part of the fork are there to reduce friction, the tendency of a telescopic fork to stick before releasing and going through a stroke motion. This is not usually a problem until it comes to small vibrations and bumps that aren't big enough to force the fork to move, and you have a high speed compression damping circuit that's trying to bring more compliance to the chatter on a road surface. High speed damping circuits are only available on very expensive forks and shocks (you can also buy them aftermarket for certain motorcycle models). The further over a motorcycle leans the less able a fork is to absorb bumps and the more a frame has to flex to do that work. The bumps are now acting like a twisting force on the motorcycle steering yoke, rather than a perpendicular compression to the fork. Ducati once made their Panigale frame too stiff and the superbike was very difficult to keep good traction at high lean angles, because naturally the fork and rear shock cannot comply with the ground surface nearly as well as the forces are sideways rather than perpendicular.

Video idea: Convert that MT07 to USD setup

@chrishart8548

9 күн бұрын

Even the MT-125 and the MT-03 has USD why not the 07 ?

@mrstfu

9 күн бұрын

@@chrishart8548 The MT07 is Yams bread and butter, selling tons of bikes to new riders that won't notice the difference for a long time, bringing in loads of profit for Yamaha. Changing a known formula, and thereby increasing production cost and sales price for something that most people won't notice, makes no sense. The 03 and 125 were probably designed with USDs from the start, while not being such a huge part of their profit estimates. Comes down to the dough, every time

@JamesParus

3 күн бұрын

Bike like mt07 are more about the balance of the components and when done right it is a fun bike that works better than it parts look on paper. Even experienced rider wont fault that bike for the type of fork it has. It's entry level bike and that's it.

@chrishart8548

3 күн бұрын

@@JamesParus well some people just won't buy the MT-07 because of the forks

I know I need confidence and safety along with my speed runs to the coffee shop!😊. I often put my knee on the road through the drive through…😊. And when I break quickly at the order booth…USD forks really make the difference 😊. You really have to be doing some serious riding to appreciate the difference…other than looks.

Using words like "better" and "best" assumes that we all have the same goals or needs and are usually completely subjective. USD forks are definitely more rigid, but that results in a stiffer ride with more feedback. There are occasions in which a stiffer ride is worse, like rough terrain over long distance. Conventional forks are less fatiguing than USD forks and provide a more dampened, softer ride. Casual bikes, like commuters cruisers, tourers and many dualsports use regular forks to aid in more rider comfort and less fatigue. Also, (the most perfect bike for regular people) the DRz400S forks are fully adjustable for rebound and damping. Performance bikes benefit from performance enhancements, but some bikes derive their desirability from comfort.

@Tonyx.yt.

9 күн бұрын

you dont get the difference bewteen torsion rigidity and spring rigidity😂... also upside down had lower unsprung mass

@AntaresSQ01

9 күн бұрын

This is not categorically correct though. USD as a design is superior to RWU, flex can still be engineered into an USD fork by the way of thinner stanchions etc, the design of the USD fork simply means they get better seal life (if adequately covered by a mud guard) and superior resistance to abuse for a similar spec and weight RWU fork.

@Claude1100

9 күн бұрын

@ werepat Beautifully put 🤟🏽

@carlmayer691

8 күн бұрын

All about FEEL.. take two bikes one w/ non-USD and one with, average experienced rider .. couldn't tell the diff... the triple trees on a USD offer less flex.. you put a aftermarket set of quality upper and lower yokes on a non-USD fork... just as good as any USD... aesthetics.. personally I like the older style non-USDs.. Proper set up, correct spring rates, fluids .. they work as well as or better any of the floor factory set USD.. remember we're speaking of SHOWA, KAYABA proprietary suspension.. meaning their suspension vendor either SHOWA or Kayaba .. WP, even Ohlins (unless aftermarekt) are built to the said manufacturers price point and specs.. a lower spec USD fork.. standard Kayaba could be inferior to an up spec SHOWA non-USD all depends on the manufacturer spec and price point.. We're not speaking of $10-20K Ohlins WSBK or MotoGP spec fork here.. mass produced proprietary suspension is only as good as the manufacturers set spec sheet...

@Salty0

5 күн бұрын

A fork that performs the same task, geared towards street riders, can be serviced easily, and is cheaper! Take (a fraction of) my money :D

great explanation - cheers!

Another plus for rightside up forks fot me is when i go ofroad though mud pools, the shiny parts stays shiny longer :p

In japan still using normal setup because it's easy to work and never fail for safety when seal broke the oil stay on tube sliders

@Big1_

4 күн бұрын

Don´t believe this guy, my 1998 Hornet 600 normal forks are stronger and rigid than the new Hornet 2024 nonadjustable upside-down forks.... This guy is talking bs, he doesnt know what is inside of a normal fork, the Spring type, spring rigity, oil type, oil seals, etc A well made Normal fork is much better than a cheap upside-down fork

@JP.Alonso

2 күн бұрын

Trends...

very insightful👍

I'll say again you did an amazing job with that R1. It looks incredible.

Amazing video. I've learned quite a few things about suspensions

Gosh I remember when adjusting forks meant changing the fluid for a thicker viscosity, 5,10,15 etc. or adding a spacer at the top of the springs, or not. Fancy that.

Man, that color in that r1 is amazing.

Thorough , informative and simple. loved the content.

One advantage of right side up forks is that you get less road salt and brake dust on the delicate chrome, this helps if you ride a lot in winter, I tend to be somewhat careless with my bikes sometimes and you can get corrosion on the fork chrome if you forget to wash it, with conventional forks the chances of this happening are smaller

In MTB Rock Shock released an inverted fork a few years ago (the one shown in the video), but has not become the standard for high end forks, other than Cannondale’s Lefty, single arm forks. That is something I would love to see coming to motorcycling.

My honda grom has usd forks, lovely stuff

Your r1 is looking nice man

A pretty recent subscriber here. Love the content👍 I really miss you baseball cap though😊

thank you! i now understand usd forks and can talk to the salesmen at the dealership with confidence! win!! the R1 looks incredible btw

Upside down forks are inverted Monotubes, just like Bilstein's used in race cars, and many Subaru's. And the copy of Bilstein... Ohlins! KYB also did inverted Monotubes for the Subaru Impreza WRX. not to mention all the others that have come after like Reiger. the best thing about Monotube shocks, is they hold more oil, but they hold the oil at the top, there is a thin (was 9.5mm but later upgraded to 10mm rod that extends down to the bottom of the shock body *that is why there is a nut on the bottom of Billsteins in cars, and there can also be a very thin rod inside that other rod, that can be turned to adjust (open/close) any bypasses to send fluid around the Valving to soften the low speed (and the high speed whilst it doing it), but thit that setup, the rod is 12mm as in Ohlins with adjustment. one of the benefits is that only the shock body and inner rod are the moving parts and the reservoir that hold the oil is at the top where it doesn't really move in relation to the vehicle, however, unlike twin tube shocks where the oil is pushed up the inner tube and drains down the outer tube (with a valve at each end of the inner tube, one for bump and the other for rebound. the Monotube which has a piston separating the Nitrogen from the oil, and another piston that has valving on either side of it to control resistance for bump and rebound, It can run in ANY orientation as the oil doesn't have to drain down an outer tube, to reach the bottom of the inner tube. l see rear shocks in cars that appear similar to factory Twin tube shocks. And with upside down with an extra tube over the top. the only reason the outer seal would leak is if the inner seal has gone, replacing the outer seal does nothing, because that's not the problem. and the weight? well on a Motorcycle with a monotube shock the weight is in the oil at the bottom of the shock, so upside down shocks are NOT actually lighter at the bottom, they just hold more oil and resist fade, have a better and EASIER to change valve shim stack & can be fine tuned much easier... yes these high performance shocks are EASIER to mess with!

Conventional forks are lighter and cheaper. I don't race on the track. Norton Roadholder Frorks gave a superb ride and simple maintenance. I currently ride a VFR. Handles brilliantly. Look I have changed the oil once just because I'm Picky.

What a refreshingly well explained video! Instant like and sub from me.

Great explanation! 👍 Now explain that 99% of riders can’t tell the difference.

Good one

you bought mt07 🤔 have not seen this bike before 😄

A fork that performs the same task, geared towards street riders, can be serviced easily, and is cheaper! Take (a fraction of) my money :D

I love my 06 upside down the right one started leaking again its awesome

Sometimes simple USD forks were used on basic bikes - must be cheaper to make. Often they were grease lubricated. An interesting application for full sized bikes was the Dowty forks of the 1940s. They were adapted from WW2 aeroplane landing gear, saving weight of steel springs. They reportedly worked well when new, but sealing was not perfected so USD didn't take off then. Bad seal didn't just mean oil leaks - you lost your air spring too. Dowty still in business I think, making suspensions for Airbus.

I would choose a motorcycle with a conventional fork for commuting. My bike though has an USD fork and every 10000 kms I need to pay to rebuild the front (new seals, oil etc)

Havent really tried "normal" forks. However owning 90's Ducatis with USD forks do however show why they sometimes can be annoying (leaking forks)

Usd is not a costly or premium stuff.. In India we have so much own brands using Usd in their products. Which are not costly at all but, provides good performance. For example, in bajaj Ns400Z which costs less than a yamaha R15 but have 43mm Usd and it's very very reliable.

@ayushya0007

9 күн бұрын

And even hornet 2.0

@onepunchman6165

9 күн бұрын

"Reliable" isn't a word I would use with Bajaj.

@_Ulisses_

9 күн бұрын

@@onepunchman6165 KTM and Husqvarna motorcycles are also made by Bajaj. And those are not known to be "unreliable".

@ayushya0007

9 күн бұрын

@@onepunchman6165 sometimes

@NOTAPRO

9 күн бұрын

​@@onepunchman6165bajaj needs maintenance only Keep it in good condition it will last forever

I went from that very MT07 model to a gen 3 MT09. The Gen 3 has the USD and i immedialy felt a differance. It could be because they were set up better for my weight on the MT09 but i can't help feel it was partially also because the were USD.

did you try fork shocks? I've using them for more than 10 years, and I never had any seal problems...

its all abouth unsprung weight so with racing they put the part that is heavier on the top so it can work the suspension

I'll take the more durable one, thank you very much.

Your MT-07? When did that happen?

I hate conventional. Every bike i have uses inverted. I even paid more for an r1m just for the Ohlins suspension!! Love my 18 r1m!!

My conventional forks were leaking after the bike not being used for a while, because the seals dried out. With USD forks, the seal lives longer when not in use, because there is oil against the seal.

@bluddyrowdy8757

2 күн бұрын

Yeah thats a Good Point !

Both works well for me

Can you do a video explaining how to set up suspension for dummies I have the same r1

@loftyintentions1985

9 күн бұрын

Dave Moss tuning.

I missed something somewhere. Where is the MT09 and where did the MT07 come from?

Also, greetings from Ireland 🇮🇪 Great video 👍

I have had bikes with both conventional and USD forks and tbo unless you are a race track fanatic they make very little difference in the real world. Currently I have had conventional forks rebuild and customised for my bike and weight by Maxton, they are noticeably better than any stock forks of both types I have used on real roads, not tried them on a track yet.

Whats next for the R1?

Awesome

Well also normal forks like old Yamaha r6 are adjustable in both directions .. it’s not that you can’t have adjustable forks it’s just a money thing like usd as well

Difference is I’ve never had an upside down for seal go on me, had a couple on the normal fork, simple.

I always supposed the inverted suspension was better but never knew why. I only rode conventional ones but I have bad experiences, probably because they're cheap. I'm in urge to change them now, oil-rings doesn't seal at all and I'm running out of oil. A typical trip around the city is like an off-road adventure!

@mydroidid

9 күн бұрын

More like cheap person than a cheap bike. You will only notice the difference on a heavy bike at high lean on flowing bumps. Light bikes regular is better.

Inverted forks also mean the bumps are absorbed into the body of the bike, not into the front wheel, which is much better for stability …

There's still a market, albeit limited, for quality RWU forks. Ohlins still produce their Custom 43 RWU forks with full adjustability, which will set you back about £2.5k. RWU definitely looks better on retro models and I'm surprised Norton didn't go for those on the 961, rather than the USD option.

Nice bike❤ the carbon

I gotto say that I have an conventional fully tunable "spork" (two of them) with low and high speed compression, dampening, preload and rebound, and it's air based suspension :)......Other than those Upside-down all the way....

When did he get a mt 07?

Great video, but if MV Agusta made a bike with no suspension I'd still probably buy it soo...

Since when have you had an MT-07?

Hang on when did you get an MT07?

How often do you have to change the rubber seal on usd forks? I don't want any oil on my breaks.

@Big1_

4 күн бұрын

Every time you change the fork oil, every 5 years.

I hate the usd forks on my CRF300L. Dirt and dings happen a lot off-road, I'm sick of changing fork seals. It's a defining characteristic of this model that the suspension is crappy cheap, non adjustable, and under sprung anyway, so what was the advantage over conventional?

I was going to to by a 2004 CBR 600rr but I couldn’t stand the look of the right side up forks

Please wrap the golden forks on your R1 to black or other colors, it doesn't go well with the Blue.

@ma3stro681

Күн бұрын

Ridiculous comment 😂🤡😵

Did you trade your mt09 for a mt07

The forks referred to as upside down preceded to one’s now referred to as normal.

Surron on top

USD forks are great for people who use their bikes to the max. I commute and use my bike to go on the odd tour of less than 3k miles. I’m also fat, lazy and about as sporty as your average office-working father of two. I’ll take conventional forks (with adjustability) if I can find them.

@Claude1100

9 күн бұрын

@903lew Beautifully put 🤟🏽

My BMW g310r has USD forks, still doesn't make it a good bike 😂😂

i mean my used 800$ chinese dirtbike has upside down forks but they still strong after 10 years

Mt07? What did I miss?

My 50cc cagiva cocis suprisingly has Upside-down forks. 😮

I may be wrong but don't you call the two main parts a cylinder and a piston?

When did the bottom yoke become the triple clamp??

@bluddyrowdy8757

2 күн бұрын

Because there are Top AND Bottom ' triple-trees ' mmmKay 'triple-clamp' or 'yoke' if you prefer, they are still called ' top and bottom ' anyways Cheers

Were is the mt09

So for normal riding not needed.

another advantage of a USD Fork is that the seal is always covered by oil from above. It minimizes Friction , and can potentially prolong the lifespan of a Seal.

@videosbruno

6 күн бұрын

When the seal fails all of the oil comes out, on the regular forks not

@JamesParus

3 күн бұрын

Most of the oil is inside the bottom steel tube where the damping and spring is. It's not 'all' against the seal. I have driven years with slight leak in usd fork. Just wipe it occasionally. Even normal fork leaks like a pig if the seal is really bad.

USD Forks are a high maintenance Rort Like 'disposable' unless you constantly renew not just the Seals, the staunchion as well..no problem on a high-budget, terrible if you wish for Years ( and more Years ) of reliable service from a MoBike .........

It feels like it is re-upload.

Long answer short: Flex, or lack of it.

No hat anymore? Who are you? 😂

did you sell our mt09

Never been this early before

is this video re-uploaded? i'm getting deja vu

My 50cc rieju has upside down forks 😂 is it necessary? Absolutely not. Does it add cool factor? Definitely.

Yet Ninja 500 still has RWU Forks

@veljko866

8 күн бұрын

Its a small 'slow' beginner friendly budget bike. Still great.

outdated ordinary looking conventional forks are cheap to cheap out cost and using the brand for a high price. an ordinary looking fork on the expensive bike was like a scam in the face.

which is best for hitting a deep pothole in the UK ? 😡

Let’s all make sure we understand this. If the shiny small part is at the top, THOSE are upside down forks. The larger tube at the top is the right way up forks. When tech was not so good the small shiny side had to be up in the clamps. They were this way for decades which Made them “conventional” Let me reiterate Small tube to the top = upside down Small tube to the wheel = right way up. The industry was running upside down since the beginning.

And USD forks look way cooler as well!

Motorcross works bikes were using upside forks in the 80s

@ChaosCauses

9 күн бұрын

Interesting, I did not know that! That's why there's no better sport than motocross

And my 955i Speed Triple has normal forks with full adjustment. Just saying.

Inner tube is for tyres not forks!

i use zipties for forks

Google yzr m1 frame rigidity More is not always better. ..