A 2.7 quarter mile time would mean that the driver has to pull at least 11g

@VaibhavBshet

21 күн бұрын

Some random florida man would be able to pull it off

@egj1975

21 күн бұрын

@@VaibhavBshet His fat will absorb most of the forces and brain damage wont be an issue.

@ssvis2

21 күн бұрын

@@egj1975 The brain is mostly made of fat, so this checks out.

@dodenmanniskan8846

21 күн бұрын

@@재준이 it's a very few seconds, yup. Jet pilots takes a bit less than 10 Gs on longer amount of time

@mythtorrent1808

21 күн бұрын

​@@dodenmanniskan8846fighter pilots take vertical Gs mostly which are much easier for humans to take compared to lateral gs. Still super impressive but nothing compared to these forces

8:36 Actually, the top fuel dragsters get some downforce from their exhaust, which is significant off the line

@tiagocosta791

21 күн бұрын

Exactly. They forgot about it. The exhaust pipe exit angle was actually reduced years ago, from the preferred 90deg. Was done to reduce downforce and thus speed due to safety reasons.

@PozzaPizz

21 күн бұрын

Insane to think that exhaust cases provide 1100lbs+ of downforce

@XBullitt16X

21 күн бұрын

@@PozzaPizz Its a form of thrust, in similar vein redbull used their blown diffuser this way.

@skitidet4302

21 күн бұрын

@@PozzaPizz Not when you realizes that you are burning about 2 gallons of fuel every second. At about 1.14 kg per liter, that means that you put out about 8 kg of exhaust every second. So to get to 1100lbs or 4900N of downforce, we just plug it in to our simplified trust equation to get the exhaust speed F = mv v=F/m 4900/8=612.5 m/s. So about mach 2 Can that be correct? The exhausts seem to be about 2 inches in diameter, one for each cylinder, this means that the total area is about pi*8*2.5^2 = 157 cm^2 = 0.0157 m^2. So with our flowrate of 612.5 m/s, that would mean we put out 0.0157*612.5 m/s = 9.6 m^3 of exhaust gasses every second. How much exhaust gas does 8kg of nitromethane produce when burned? Well that's a complicated question that depends on lots of factors like how clean the combustion is and how rich it is, but I think 9.6 m^3 is not a very high number seeing how you would require about 14kg of air to completely burn that nitromethane and that alone has a volume of about 18 m^3. ofc the combustion is FAR from complete in a dragster so us sitting at half that seems about right.

@Tasz_

20 күн бұрын

Today i learned why the exhaust points up on a dragster and comes out both sides. I always thought it was just cos it looks sick.

You want to fuel a car with Hydrazine? Chemists that grew up after the 60s just had a stroke.

@drunkenhobo8020

21 күн бұрын

Some of the Chinese Long March rockets use UDMH and N2O4. So best not to be in the flight path of one of those...

@Real28

21 күн бұрын

​​@@drunkenhobo8020 haha hehe tell that to the rocket they recently launched and then the first stage came back to earth just outside (or inside, couldn't tell) some rural village in China. I'm sure there will be no health effects for those people. The explosion was good sized, still had a ton of propellant

@publicenemynr5

21 күн бұрын

You'll make more power running on a mix of hydrazine and nitromethane than the regular nitro and methanol blend, but it is dangerous as hell since it's time sensitive and will spontaneously explode if you leave it for like 40min...

@thorwaldjohanson2526

20 күн бұрын

It's also incredibly toxic and carcinogenic.

@Angryspec

20 күн бұрын

Some of the military aircraft I’ve worked on had hydrazine for the emergency start system (think engine dies in flight and needs a restart). They had indicators on the side of the jet that changed color when exposed to it. If you ever were to see that indicator change color you better start running.

How's Project Inversion going? Is the ball still rolling on it?

@Tminus89

21 күн бұрын

Perhaps a scale model would be a good step up, through a collaboration with Project Air or Kevin Talbot for example?? Could be a fun video :)

@jamesdrummond7684

21 күн бұрын

yeah, I was wondering about exactly this. is it dead in the water or still in active development?

@ruroot8321

21 күн бұрын

Been hoping for an update on Project Inversion. Honestly feels like the project may have been cancelled

@Artiick

21 күн бұрын

@@ruroot8321 This is exactly what's worrying me

@Artiick

21 күн бұрын

@@jamesdrummond7684 Yep. Exactly what got me worried and prompted the comment

Hydrazine! - good golly. You could kill the entire grandstand in one pass.

@jackassplus

21 күн бұрын

let's add a second fuel pump for a nice safe oxidizer like RFNA while we're at it!

@michaelbuckers

16 күн бұрын

When you see green flames, it's hydrazine.

@ztwntyn8

7 күн бұрын

@@michaelbuckersthey start the sr 71 engines on trimethal borane and it is also green

Monopropellant dragster... sounds like straight out of Kerbal Space Program.

The trick to using hydrazine as a fuel is the added weight of the space suit for the driver.

@jedswift

20 күн бұрын

And the crew, audience and the residents downwind...

@riccardo9953

20 күн бұрын

drivers are expendable as long as they survive the race. safety is second to human greatness

Nitro cars use aluminum rods and actually shorten during a run from the high cylinder pressures. They act somewhat as a shock absorber compared to steel or Ti rods.

@Gu1tarZer0

21 күн бұрын

I knew they rebuilt like, constantly.. but every single run!?

@compt3ck

21 күн бұрын

@@Gu1tarZer0 Yes rebuild every single run and they only have about an hour to do it between rounds.

@bazooka712

21 күн бұрын

Waiter, waiter! More rods please!

@Scootermagoo

19 күн бұрын

They rotate thru 6 to 8 sets of rods per weekend, they measure the rods to keep the lengths equal from the shortening to make set's and match pistons to them. the rods and pistons all bend down, so they measure the rods and the piston depths and match them up as best they can and adjust the compression ratios with them, the newer and longer the rod and taller the piston the higher the compression, then they adjust the compression ratio with the copper headgaskets to make even consistent power thru the life of the parts. I suggest watching Clay Millikans ytube channel on how nitro cars actually work.

@Gu1tarZer0

19 күн бұрын

@@Scootermagoo Ye nitromethane is a weird beastie. The main thing was I just thought they rebuilt maybe 4 or 5 times in a day (and maybe have 1 or 2 spare motors depending on the team's budget/class) Might check it out sometime- though I'm really more into open wheelers and tuner cars.

The change to exotic materials does lower mass but it also dramatically changes the dynamics of the entire car, and when it comes to Top Fuel dragsters the mass of the frame and the very tuned way it flexes is specifically part of the process of getting the tires to grip the track. I think you would have to lengthen the chassis to get some of that back. And the tires struggle mightily to hold the 11000 hp now, doubt they can hold twice the power.

@malachiinman8046

21 күн бұрын

I am sure the tires will be FINE 🔥

@SpadajSpadaj

20 күн бұрын

And if you lengthen the chassis you have to offset increased torsion, torque, whatever. Which could mean you'd have to increase mass...

@zeroinfinity5864

19 күн бұрын

I don't think the driver can take it.

@Scoots1994

19 күн бұрын

@@zeroinfinity5864 Sure they can. The force is all in one direction so they can do a lot to prepare for it. The key is the short duration.

@michaelc3977

15 күн бұрын

@@Scoots1994 Nonsense. The drivers poo literally comes back out their bodies through their mouths and fills up in the crash helmet. I've seen it before in '78 when we changed the rubber compound.

Dragsters are rear wheel drive, but also designed so under full acceleration, the front tires are barely even touching the ground. So 95% of the weight is on the driven wheels already during a run.

@DapperHesher

20 күн бұрын

This. AWD would add nothing to the equation.

@user-tz4lr8xe4d

19 күн бұрын

If you add ground effect to the front, you can put the front wheels to the ground(like fans etc)

@Scootermagoo

19 күн бұрын

@@user-tz4lr8xe4d it wouldn't do a thing, the cars are 30 feet long they have all the leverage they can get, they are lifting the front tires and using wheeliebars now.. You have no idea what you are talking about with ground effects. And fans.

@user-tz4lr8xe4d

19 күн бұрын

@@Scootermagoo fans are used to suck the car to the ground but they'll still fail prolly because of the acceleration. It's immense that it's basically just useless

@Idiomatick

14 күн бұрын

@@Scootermagoo You'd have more tire contact area with more tires tho...

I saw Sammy Miller when he took the record at Santa pod, I was 11. I've spent the last 41 years as a Toolmaker and development engineer because of people like Sammy Miller & Angus McPhail on Jade Warrior. As I understand it, the conrods in nitro burning engines are forged aluminium alloy. The reason being that the percussive force of the nitro exploding can shatter steel or titanium. Another piece of nerdery is that the rod length shortens after each run as the rods compress under the force.

There's a component of tire grip that you seem to have missed. The rubber tread of the tire on a top fuel car is actually FLUNG into the pavement by centrifugal force. This is only possible if the tire is allowed to grow in diameter, which also results in the lifting of the driven axle.

@philgiglio7922

20 күн бұрын

And a change of the final drive ratio

Top fuel dragster doesn't have a transmission, they use a centrifugal clutch, and direct drive and a the reverse gear is in the rear end.

@fredrikholmgren5287

21 күн бұрын

hm, check reality

@mxtuner3351

21 күн бұрын

@@fredrikholmgren5287 He's right. They never shift gears. The gearing is done with the rear tire diameter growth from the beginning until top speed. And the clutch and its adjustment are key to making a good run

@DapperHesher

20 күн бұрын

They have a transmission, they just don't have ratios. It's one final drive.

@gregrowe1168

20 күн бұрын

Who would be able to shift anyway? You’re literally strapped in a rocket like Wile Coyote. You’re just hoping it doesn’t explode like his always did.

@Scootermagoo

19 күн бұрын

@@DapperHesher No actually they have a clutch, the output goes into a reverser and then a output shaft to the rearend. They do not have a transmission and haven't used a gear change in close to 30 years now.

"0-60 acceleration tests have been the go-to statistic for drivers all over the world" Correction: "0-60 acceleration tests have been the go-to statistic for drivers in about 5% of the world"

@pierremarcoux9465

21 күн бұрын

Probably just in the Antarctic, where it is too cold to use Metric :)

@bongwaterbojack

21 күн бұрын

The only part that matters, yes.

@Kingstallington

21 күн бұрын

0-62 * 🤓

@SimonBauer7

21 күн бұрын

average US citizen...​@@bongwaterbojack

@travisobrien1533

21 күн бұрын

In the racing community, using imperial is actually very common. Most drivers would refer to their speeds in MPH even in metric using countries

Pretty sure top fuel dragsters in current form are running regularly under 4 seconds for quarter mile runs, so unless I misheard, I don't think your quote on the fastest top fuel quarter mile drag run of 4.4 seconds is correct. So, the theoretical speed you originally calculated of 3.8 seconds is actually spot on and quite common. Brittany Force has recorded a 3.665 run of 338mph as the fastest ever.

@tjdjultima

21 күн бұрын

NHRA runs 1000 feet not 1320

@tiagocosta791

21 күн бұрын

Not true. Current top fuel competion in the US was reduced to 1000 ft.

@notmilandia8461

21 күн бұрын

Currently Top Fuel dragsters do not compete full quarter mile, instead they do 1000 feet runs. Granted, with todays cars set up for quarter mile, they probably could shave a bit off from that 4,4 second time. But not much.

@johnnyboy114

21 күн бұрын

@@tiagocosta791 then I take it back. I wasn't aware of this.

@bigsellers7953

21 күн бұрын

@@notmilandia8461 did some extremely basic math based off the fastest top fuel pass, 3.641 @ 338.48, if they kept rolling after 1000 to 1320 at 338, it would be a 4.28

The biggest reason exotic, lightweight materials are not used in Top Fuel or Funny Car racing classes is the fact that those engines produce anywhere from 11000 to 18000 horsepower, and lord knows what the torque output is. That much power would rip apart carbon fiber like so much wet paper. The chassis would explode on the starting line well before 10% of the maximum power is produced. The mandated chrome-molybdenum steel tubing chassis is strong enough and flexible enough to take the power that is output, but still requires frequent inspection of the welds in the chassis.

@justaviel3485

5 күн бұрын

Uhhhh... torque is usually 7000 PLUS lb-ft which worries me

Why not strap a large solid fuel rocket calculated to burn for 1.5 seconds on the chassis? It solves traction, power en weight at once.

@MazdaRX7007

9 күн бұрын

Might as well put a behind it to increase force at that point.

Other than a few force/mass unit confusions, Driver61 certainly covered the bases if we restrict ourselves to a rubber tire-based force transfer concept. The only other thing to note is that the thrust force for a rubber tire is limited by the shear strength of the rubber itself. How about using a captive rack and pinion that runs the 1,320 feet? Steel has a lot higher shear strength than rubber. If we go completely "no rules" the limitation comes down to how much acceleration can a human stand. Does the human have to be able to control the vehicle? Does the human have to be in the vehicle? Col. John Stapp, strapped into a rocket sled in 1946 through 1951 survived up to 42.6 gs. Assuming that could be maintained over the ¼ mile the time would be 1.38 seconds crossing the line at just under 1,300 MPH. The human would not be capable of operating the vehicle during this, likely being unconscious, with broken bones, bleeding retinas etc. Col. Stapp was temporarily blinded by this; his friends have noted that he was changed by the experience. The fastest accelerating machine I am aware of short of an artillery shell is the Sprint short range AMB. Capable of 100 g acceleration. Lay it on its side (wheels or no), start it up and it will pass the ¼ mile point 0.9 seconds later passing 1,980 MPH, coming up on Mach 3. This assumes that aero drag would roughly cancel the decreasing mass as propellant was expended. I would not want to be in the stands, or within a mile. 20 if downrange, unless in a bunker.

I believe current top fuel dragsters are traction limited about 2/3 of the run.

@thebaddestogre-3698

21 күн бұрын

Yup, literally the clutches slip all the way past 200mph to limit the power getting through the tires.

@SGIMartin

21 күн бұрын

@@thebaddestogre-3698 yeah, and then fuse due to heat afterwards - motor lasts around 900 revolutions under load(burnout and run) until a full rebuild. They're wild machines, and video really does not convey the feeling of being next to an 11000hp nitro engine

@sgkingly8392

21 күн бұрын

​@@SGIMartinIt really doesn't, I went to my first nitro event earlier this year and I've never experienced anything like it (even having stood next to fighter jets) totally unforgettable

@mxtuner3351

21 күн бұрын

@@sgkingly8392 I remember my first NHRA top fuel event. It truly boggles the mind when you see it and feel it in person the first time

@sgkingly8392

20 күн бұрын

@@mxtuner3351 I've seen rocket launches and fighter jets up close and honestly nothing comes close to top fuel, it just boggles your mind. You literally can't imagine what it's like to sit in the stands and feel those cars go past

I've watched a video about top fuel dragsters some time ago and apparently their designers could easily increase the power, but then they couldn't put it down, so I don't think your estimations make sense. Probably removing most of the power part of the video would not make much difference in real time, so it would be more like 3.4s assuming the rest stays constant... which is slower than that alleged unofficial record of 3.22s. Still, I don't think these calculations can be taken seriously.

@mxtuner3351

21 күн бұрын

The 3.22 was for 1000 feet, not 1320. They quit racing 1/4 mile a number of years ago

Problem with top fuel dragsters, is the are heavily restricted configurations, so they cant even modify their cars to make them faster, such as better superchargers, or non hemi engines, or non v8 configurations

@KingOfAllJackals

15 күн бұрын

Yup. I doubt those pushrods are in there because they’re better than OHC. Tire geometry (and number😉) is fixed. I think the final drive ratio is too. Everyone is point out that AWD is kinda moot because it’s basically impossible to keep the front tires down. Now throw tires that are 2x wider and can balloon even more and put two drive axles in the back (along with the active ground effect fans) and things would get seriously crazy.

What happened to the tunnel experiment?

As a motorcycle rider, i can tell you that rear wheel drive is only slower if your rear wheels don't have enough grip to lift the frontwheel of the ground

By the way there is different types of compounds used for drag racing tires as well as different prep for the strip itself so if you're on a big tire car you're going to be running less track prep so the tires can actually slip whereas with small Tire cars they're going to be running more track prep because you don't want the small Tire cars that initial slip

Another BRILLIANT video Scott! It is incredibly interesting how you pull all the variables together.

Hypergolic fuels in a piston engine?! That HAS to be right on top of the worst possible ideas in propulsion technology... Also, top fuel dragsters are running their tires at the very limit of their grip. If you doubled the power and halved the weight, where would you get the grip from to transfer said power it into the ground? Thinking about how grip works, there has to be a maximum balancing between grip to transfer the power and rolling resistance. The optimum for force transfer would be to concrete the tires to the ground. The optimum for rolling resistance would be tires covered in soap or oil or better yet, not even touching the ground. Increasing one necessarily takes the other away from it's optimum.

@wildcard4515

21 күн бұрын

I was half listening then did a full on double take and rewind cause I KNOW he didn't just say we were gonna fuel this thing with hydrazine.......

@cosmicdestructor

12 күн бұрын

I mean, he LITERALLY said; _use fans to suck the car_ like the McMurtry, then turn them off to reduce rolling resistance

Another key factor consists on reducing drag. Specially, if fans are added, it may be possible to decrease the rear wing size, improving aerodynamics.

@jackassplus

21 күн бұрын

Fans need power. Power needs batteries, batteries add mass and take up space, increasing the aerodynamic cross-section. Besides, the downforce from the exhaust is considerable. (~1000 lb (450kg))

@ollep9142

21 күн бұрын

@@jackassplus Some of the additional 11 kHp of the main engine could possibly be used to drive the fans. I'm not sure that fans could provide the required ~20 kN of downforce consistently during the entire run though.

@AdemyrDiaz

20 күн бұрын

When thinking about mass and weight realizing that the earth moves around at 67,000 miles PER HOUR (107,000km/h) is crazy, it could be real

Not as fast as I can click the like button

@anythingsettings

21 күн бұрын

Good one😂

I used to think Drag racing was too expensive for the amount of track/seat time but watching Cleetus Mc Farland videos has made me really respect it and how fast they can go in drag cars on good prep, but they don't do much of it in Ireland 🇮🇪

@heartsky

18 күн бұрын

Used to watch top fuel on tv with dad back in the 80's. Watching Cleetus has me excited again about drag racing. I so want to do it now.

I'm glad you did this because when I theorize about stuff people seem to have blinders on past what they can see in front of them right now

damn taks for the sponsor i was about to skip but it is cool and useful

Are we going to casually ignore the idea of cutting weight to an absolute bare minimum, then strapping on a load of fans which likely weigh as much as what you've just battled to remove? 🤔 Plus the insane levels of G the driver would be under likely require heavy pressure suits to be worn.

@Shocker99

21 күн бұрын

Same goes for the engine

@DapperHesher

20 күн бұрын

You can raise the amount of power you can apply to the ground however. The clutches on Top Fuelers only fully lock up for the last 300 - 400 ft. of the run. Not to mention the barn door wing could be replaced with the fan force streamlining the car a good bit. You honestly woundn't need E powered fans. You'd just drive them off the transmission like the BT46B.

@palleppalsson

20 күн бұрын

"Plus the insane levels of G the driver would be under likely require heavy pressure suits to be worn." What even is this statment? Pressure suits doesnt save you from Gforces. And G-suits doesnt weigh much but they only marginally spare you from y-axis geforces. (like pulling a loop in a plane)

@Scootermagoo

19 күн бұрын

Our announcer friend doesn't know what he's talking about, he's playing with a 20 year old playbook. First they do not race nitrocars past a 1000 feet. So he's already wrong on pretty much everything he said. Second off the engines can't make unlimited power they are near the edge of hydrolocking the engines as it is. They literally cannot get more fuel into the chamber. Second off the cars are heavy due to the rules. Not because he made them up. The NHRA and the insurance companies have been slowing nitro cars down since the 60's. The 3.20 rear gear is used to limit top speeds under 350mph, the tires themselves will come apart if they go much faster. The engines have 8800rpm limiters on them, granted nitro doesn't care it'll run without a distributor as some race teams have learned. We wont talk about removing the second and at one point third magneto from the engine to limit power or the blower restrictions or... I wont even get into the problem with turbo chargers and the power they would add to the equation. it's not even close to possibly knowing the limit of the engine itself due to just the restrictive rules the tuners have to face, imagine the power 2 140mm turbos could add to this alone removing the blower as the actual restriction. Our man here doesn't know for which end his ass is speaking in this case.

@elonmuskes4874

19 күн бұрын

Why do you need a driver. Could a robot not drive a vehicle in a straight line for 2.7 sek? Or maybe the aerodynamics of the car could keep is straight. What about a hydrogen power car? Low mass high energy density (at high pressure) it could also cool the engine

Glad to see some of the science of drag racing as I just recently went to the Don Garlitts Drag Racing museum and drag race museum hall of fame

I have another idea. remember that man hole cover, sealing an underground explosion, that got blasted into space? how about putting wheels on it and call it a car?!

@MazdaRX7007

9 күн бұрын

Sir, that would make the car a projectile, and the guy inside would turn into mulch. That could work in an rc category ngl, canon projectile on wheels basicly.

Saw legend 'Slammin' Sammy Miller do the Quarter mile 386mph run. Excelleration was clocked at 12G. 0-100mph in 0.36 seconds. First thing if watching 2/3rds along the track on launch you see the white shock wave . Then could hear the car over the Tannoy system before the actual sound hits you. Also saw him, again at Santa Pod do a 3.00 second run but for some reason it wasn't classed as official. I asked him about the force on his body. He replied because he was moving seated in a forward line position it wasn't an issue as unlike an aircraft that turns the blood doesn't try to rush to your head or feet so don't need a G-suit.

@haaxeu6501

3 күн бұрын

Exactly, lots of people in the comment section confused about that.

you're aware we want more of your videos right?

The top fuel dragsters are just a 4 second earthquake, Vanishing Point is an RPG

I'm old enough to remember when CalTech scientists declared "Given UNlimited horsepower & UNlimited traction, no dragster could ever go faster than 180 mph in the quarter mile." VERY shortly thereafter Tommy Ivo ("IF" I remember correctly / l'm old!) did it! 👍😮

@clintonherring

21 күн бұрын

You know you can just google facts before typing stuff on the internet

@Scootermagoo

19 күн бұрын

Imagine the fool that said they then seeing ohh let's just use tom bailey's street car as an example... Some people are just not that smart.

@ik749

16 күн бұрын

@@clintonherring yeah, but to google facts before writing every single comment is not worth it. Its just internet.

@clintonherring

16 күн бұрын

@@ik749 yep on the same page.

@ik749

16 күн бұрын

@@clintonherring full sentence?

The pause face that the video ends with 😂😂

Build a road with both lower and upper surfaces, so the rear tyres are held bottom and top. As they expand they push outwards on the upper and lower surfaces, providing maximum traction. The wing for downforce is replaced by pushing the 2 rear axles apart. Ultimate traction... @Driver61

I doubt the effect of AWD at maximum acceleration. It is like the opposite of braking with a bicycle. If I brake hard enough and have the grip needed, my weight shifts completely to the front wheel and I can lift the rear wheel. This is how I get the shortest stopping distance. With accelerating a dragster it is the opposite. Acceleration transfers the weight back and the front wheels don't have anymore grip.

@DapperHesher

20 күн бұрын

Yup, the front wheels are essentially unloaded.

@gort8203

15 күн бұрын

Of course there is weight transfer to the rear, but there is still weight on the front so those tires can still do work, not just not as much as the rears. Especially if your car is designed to maximize the AWD and weight is biased accordingly.

I would love to watch someone build this machine. The amount of problems that need to be solve would be massive but ground breaking i imagine.

@jackassplus

21 күн бұрын

You'd have a hard time finding anyone to drive it. Most of the current Top Fuel drivers don't believe that they could safely or reliably finish a 1/4 mile run safely using the current cars. (some of which destroy themselves in 1000 feet.

@gregrowe1168

20 күн бұрын

You’d need Elon Musk to sponsor the project. It would be the most expensive race car in the history of mankind.

that 3d animation of a dragster engine -- do the piston skirts really get that close to the crank counterweights?!

You didn't take into consideration that top fuel and funny cars are limited to a 3.20 rear end gear ratio. That should have some effect on the acceleration.

very skeptical about some of the weight savings ideas in this video. especially the motor ones. also did you add the fans in on the weight equation?

If a Top Fuel Dragster makes 800 pounds of thrust at the exhaust tips then you can see how the 0-40mph down force is created. What they need is dynamic exhaust to change from down force to longitude and gain the speed on the back end.

how is the finish time measured? is it the front of the car or the back of the car? or the centre of mass? could you make the car elongate itself during the run to get to the finish faster?

Nhra actually has the nitro classes rather restricted to keep speeds down. They could gain a lot of power by unrestricting the blower and final drive alone.

I don't think we'll ever see the likes of Sammy Miller and his amazing car, Vanishing Point, any time soon. That thing was absolutely amazing, and it's performance was difficult to convey to anyone who never saw it.

if you wanted the fastest quarter mile this is my proposition where i recon sub 1 sec is possible have the floor and ceiling as rotating roads, like treadmills and keep the traditional right angled triangle shape of a drag car, have wheels on the front and back of the car, pointing up, with motors helping the car go quicker, this way, when the car takes off it will wheelie and have two wheels on the floor and 4 on the ceiling although whats wrong with having like 20 wheels helping out. also have it in a flying start because not worrying about acceleration means the car can start slowly, like two miles ahead of the 1/4 mile so it can reach its top speed for the start of the 1/4 mile and then with all this and the treadmills i think a car could do a sub 1 second 1/4 mile.

That McMurtry just raised the bar more than anything in the last decade or two, that fan system changes everything, handling is on a different level now

Please update us on Project Inversion!

I saw Vanishing Point and Natural High race back in the early 80's at Englishtown New Jersey. It was unbelievable how fast those two cars went compared to everything else in any class at the time. They couldn't go full throttle at that track due to the size of the track, but it was impressive.

The driver staying alive is the limit.

1:14 ETH in under a second!

The connecting rods in those top fuel motors can also be made out of aluminum typically the blocks the heads, and the connecting rods are all made out of aluminum to reduce weight. But there’s significant longevity loss. Most of the big cars in NHRA use aluminum connecting rods when you get down bracket racing motors we use H beam steel rods. This is because at the top end you can be on and off the throttle killing numbers and it puts a lot of stress on the connecting rods and the crankshaft, and aluminum rods just can’t do that for a long amounts of time like these bracket motors need too.

When you considered the changes in weight when adding the fans, did you figure for the weight of the fans and supporting hardware?

Definitely went way over the top on your estimate, explained by many comments before mine. I do feel like if budget wasn't a limit, 3.5second quarter mile may be possible, but idk about much below that

Could put a cable and pully like an aircraft carriers launch system down the center of both lanes and instead of pulling the cars all it would do, it would allow you to pull down on the car near the rear. This would allow you to get the best grip on the tires and allow the car to move down the track with the "Pull down cable" moving with the car down the center of the lanes underneith the road surface with just a slit in the Lane where the cable comes up to attach to the car, like an aircraft carrier has down the center of some of the runways

Two things, one Top Fuel / Funnycar dragsters don't have transmissions they use a direct drive multi clutch pack which is setup to slip off the start in order to control power delivered to the rear wheels. 2nd less know is that the engines exhaust is pointed up and back for a season to push down adding traction and back for thrust forward the exhaust plays a bigger factor than most realize...

Something I remember from a Cleetus Mcfarland video where is friend Kevin was building one of his road legal drag cars was the work they did on the rear suspension. They changed trailing arm angles to make the vehicle squat under hard acceleration transferring more of the vehicle's weight to the rear wheels. That car (Mullet) has done a 6.8 quarter mile so far, and drives to the meetings.

@DapperHesher

20 күн бұрын

Top fuelers are 100% hardtailed. No suspension. It's all in the deformation of the tire.

@BigMateo24

8 күн бұрын

The entire chassis is a giant ladder bar. The thing flexes and arcs in the middle under acceleration. They don't call them floppers for nothing.

It would be a bit difficult to get more nitro/alcohol mixture into the engine, currently, dragsters have almost liquid lock at TDC there is so much fuel being pumped into the cylinder.

Can you do a video on the "Vanishing Point" please?

@12:59 Top Fuel piston connecting rods are made from 6061-T651 aluminum, not steel or titanium.

I believe it may be possible to go much faster in a dragster if the rules allowed for the following: - Carbon monocoque crash cell - Low drag carbon body - Fan forced ground effects for downforce instead of using big wings - No restrictions on engine design - Supercharger could be an axial compressor design or a centrifugal supercharger. Turbos would also be allowed. - 4WD hybrid using electric motors in the front wheels powered by supercapacitors to aid in acceleration and traction in the first few hundred feet - Supercharger or turbos use electric motors to help drive them (along with the engine)

It’d be cool if f1 tracks used the same sticky track prep stuff over the entire track to see what really can be done if the driver knows grip is never going to be a problem

You mentioning hydrazine, a common fuel for spacecraft, makes me think - what if you upped to other rocket fuels? Hydrazine's pretty low end as far as those are concerned and mostly used in spacecraft for things like its simplicity and reliability, while launch vehicles use other fuels. For example, what if you followed the lead of most rockets and used a liquid bipropellant? For example, you can pair the hydrazine with something like nitrogen tetroxide (there are more efficient fuels, but fuel mass is a small amount so saving it probably doesn't matter much if it comes at the cost of power). If you're really crazy even go back to the '60s era rocketry and go for propellant mixtures including stuff like diborane and chlorine trifluoride

Why not use 1 large roller at the rear as a tyre?

Possible yes. But no sanctioning body would allow the rules to be broken to achieve it. Also nice that Tractor Pulls were mentioned those are something else. Also didn't you cover drag racing in a past video?

I was wondering if you were going to go with an “explosion based” car like the Project Orion spacecraft :D

It would be great if you interviewed a US Top Fuel Crew Cheif , the sports governing body the NHRA has been consistently trying to slow the cars down to improve driver safety and reduce insurance costs,, such things as reducing the distance to 1000 ft, restricting rear gearing, limiting the % amount of Nitomethane, minimum weight,banning electronic traction aids, banning Hydrazine etc, etc. Yet the best crew chiefs are able to overcome restrictions and devise engineering solutions to over come these restrictions and in many cases far surpass the previous performance levels. It would be very interesting to find out what they could actually do without any restrictions in place or no consideration of driver safety and available braking distance. These guys may be seen as grass roots but they are equally as talented as any engineers in any other wheel driven motorsports. I’m ignoring unlimited LSR vehicles because they are not wheel driven and powered by jet and more commonly rocket thrust.

At some point, the limiting factor is going to be geometry. Because the center of mass *has* to be above the road surface, the max Gs that you can pull is limited to the angle between the rear wheels and the center of mass. Fans and aero can help somewhat, but with a powerful enough motor, adding weight can actual increase the possible acceleration. If the center of mass was 50 cm of the ground, 2.7s to go 400m would require the CoM to be almost 6 meters in front of the rear axle. For the motor, you're probably better off going with electric motors. 600kg going 400m (1/4 mile) over 2.7s would require average output of 10MW, which could be accomplished with about 15 of the Koenigsegg "Dark Matter" e-motor. (probably an easier task than getting an engine running on hydrazine). You'd need 30 MJ (8300 Wh) of energy storage, which could be done with 128 kg of Skeleton's "SuperBatteries". Another option for the motor is to go completely unconventional, and use flywheels. Their biggest disadvantage is that they make it hard to turn, but that can actually be a benefit for a drag car. Another benefit here is that dumping all that angular momentum can help push the front wheels into the ground.

One slight correction, 1/4 mile isn't "old school". Everything except top fuel dragster and funny car still run the full 1/4 mile. And the only reason those two classes run just 1000ft is because it was deemed too expensive & in some cases not possible to extend the safety runoffs. So they found that space by shortening the race distance by 320ft.

Bruh I once drop so much acid I went naught to the next galaxy over in negative 2 seconds.

Interesting video, thank you I enjoyed it! I thought the connecting rods[13;00] were aluminum or titanium for their, strength, light weight and ability to absorb shock loads.

Now this is how you build a car for combat

Take the dragster to the 1/8 you won’t need as much fuel means less weight

Either steel is 5 times denser than carbon fibre or carbon is 5x stronger, per kg, than steel in these appplications, I think you meant the latter. I enjoy your videos, and the way you make these things more approachable for the masses and look forward to more of your content in the future, thank you for your time and effort put into them.

Here's a pothead idea: what if you put jet engines on the car, but they are all facing downwards without providing any propulsion themselves, only downforce?

We can always ask Jason from Engineering Explained to do the calculation check 😂

Insane ! I LOVE IT ! :)

Eliminate wheel slip. Use cog-drive for the wheel to track interface.

I just saw a video yesterday that a drag car hit 417mph with a 1/4 mile time of 5.76 seconds. Crazy!

How about tires which have steel spikes which perfectly fit holes in the track. The acceleration and g forces would be off the scale

im calculating 26000hp, you may need a bit more power since it wont weigh in 600, also need to take into consideration the down force and 26000hp would be net horsepower, you are gonna need even more horse power to take on drag and tyre friction, but to reach such speeds in such short time, it would be better just to strap a solid fuel rocket engine. So you decrease in mass more and have lots of power and the engine can last as long as needed. My take on it.

Man forgot the huge rear wing which works opposite like in idle it do not increase the grip but when moving makes the car slower we need to replace it with some aerodynamic vents with the fans

At some point, the driver’s reaction time becomes a factor too. A couple tenths either way makes a difference. The pavement itself also becomes a limiting factor. In order to get perfect acceleration, you need a perfect surface to do it on.

By the time you're using hydrazine you may as well just switch to a rocket engine. Especially considering that hydrazine is way to unsafe to have spectators near the track

As for creating more power...Last time I checked the rules regarding computers for controlling ignition timing and fuel injection restricted them to passive data gathering only. After each pass the data gathered is analyzed and tuning adjustments for ignition timing, fuel curves, clutch tuning, and chassis tuning were then made manually to add or subtract power, clutch bite, tire traction all based on what the crew chief felt the track surface and atmospheric conditions could tolerate. In some cases an 11K hp engine might be detuned to 9.5K for example if track conditions were resulting in "Blowing off the tires" on the launch or later when the clutch fully engages. But if they were allowed to use closed loop systems capable of monitering wheelspin, clutch slippage, chassis flex, fuel/air ratio, spark advance, exhaust temperature, etc... and making thousands of adjustments in nano seconds the way flight control computers do exactly that on planes like the F22 then I would be willing to bet it wouldnt take long before we'd see dragsters acheiving between 1 and 2 seconds quicker elapsed times. Which is the exact reason they do not allow these systems in Top Fuel drag racing. Currently these cars are already so quick that even an experienced driver can have a hard time reacting quickly enough in the event that something goes wrong. And things do go wrong.

Would we even need the huge spoiler if we had Fans? I bet that would also save some weight

problem is the loss of weight would affect traction , I think the fan system would be heavier than anticipated especially if its electric .. My guess would be .5 to .7 reduction from the current times.,, I think the fastest times would be achieved when removing traction from the equation partially.. A current dragster with a solid rocket engine lit when the gas pedal is floored would likely produce insane numbers.

At what speed would the vehicle cross the finish line?

imagine instead of just rubber tires, you have gear teeth on the outer edge of the wheels that lines up with a rack on the ground for the like the initial 50 feet. you wont need to worry about the traction nor need fans for ground effect.

You could vastly increase the power with an unorthodox engine. For example, the fuel pump on a Saturn V, first stage F1 engine, the rocket nasa used in the Moon missions, made 35,000 hp. It ran on kerosine and oxygen.

hello! leave jet rockets outside if propulsion on wheels is concerned. An active rigid rear axle on most drag racing cars can push the tires down more than the car weighs and it fucks up just counting on the weight of the car when its slamming the tires at the start and on every shift and every gear 😀

How about a four wheel drive dragster with equal tires all around, with the engine (or engines) located near the front so weight on the tires would be roughly equal while accelerating, and fans for traction - and, of course, 22,000 HP!

Hypothetically as fast as the fastest airplane, the wheels would be touching the ground but the thruster would just be using them as bumpers

Using exotic material, it is more likely to boots the power up to 3 gazillion horsepower. Using an exotic frame would reduce the weight by 150%. So with that much power and a negative weight it should be doable, right? Well let me tell you, we tested it out after doing a lot of calculations and the result was astonishing. The car arrived at the finish line right before it started. Truly awesome, don't you think?

Carowinds in NC used to have a roller-coaster that went 0-60 in 1.1 seconds. It was mind blowing how hard it accelerated. I wouldn't ever want to go quicker than that. Acceleration was linear and maxed out at 120mph in 2.2 seconds.

Update on project inversion please