Thanks so much for having me on Johnny! This episode is one of my favorite pieces of television and an excellent treatise on understanding trauma and our conditioning. I'm so glad I got to break it down with you!

@WatashiMachineFullCycle

2 жыл бұрын

This was my absolute favourite video Johnny has put out to date, and your insight was a huge part of that. New sub incoming 💜

@MoonstarWStarmoon

2 жыл бұрын

I liked a lot of what you had to say!

@onyxd6270

2 жыл бұрын

It's a powerful episode Thanks for ya both helping explain it to everyone

@freechurro17yearsago84

2 жыл бұрын

Love ur videos and covers!!

@SoVidushi

2 жыл бұрын

Great analysis!!

Diane was hesitant to write the Ivy Tran series because she thought that it wouldn't help those who went through similar experiences but funny enough, because she was an avid fan of Horsin' Around, that helped her get through her horrible home life

@cometleijon964

2 жыл бұрын

never even realized that! thats such a good point!

@MY-wo9yb

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah and you can even put that on the whole show itself - they did a COMEDY to help people with mental health struggles feel understood

@ReyRecaps

2 жыл бұрын

“Some people like silly stories”

@mizure384

2 жыл бұрын

Good point Sometimes, its not relating to a similar situation that makes people happier Its watching a situation better than theirs to give them hope to work towards it

@veebezoo5175

2 жыл бұрын

much like how sonny, reading the rough draft of her book, felt a sense of belonging knowing that it's okay to be disappointed in people you love. i always assumed this was about his parents breakup. this probably helped him warm up to his dads new girlfriend (diane)

I really like that Diane gained weight after taking her antidepressants. And that no one brought it up in a negative way

@chasegreen4103

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely one of the hightlights of the show! It's on par with Todd's asexuality

@mochaest1994

2 жыл бұрын

I thought it’s because you eat a lot while depressed heh like me 🥲🥲

@elizahamilton5599

2 жыл бұрын

@@mochaest1994 it’s actually to show she had time to eat and embrace the Chicago lifestyle. Her gaining weight showed the audience that she took her medication and was happier for it😊

@elizahamilton5599

2 жыл бұрын

@@mochaest1994 also Diane said earlier that her medication made her gain weight but her weight gain shows the audience that her take her antidepressants

@mochaest1994

2 жыл бұрын

@@elizahamilton5599 oh ok I think that part went over my head, I’m happy Diane is okay in the end

I love how they dealt with such a specific issue for artists in this episode--that just because you have pain or trauma, it never means that you have to create art out of it. Not everyone can or should do that. Sometimes you just have to write a different book.

@TheHealerIzAwesome

2 жыл бұрын

That's very true. I've tried writing songs about my trauma and past but I was never able to make anything out of it. Turns out that, instead of writing songs about the bad parts of my life, I needed to write about topics I love and am fascinated by. Such as the history of espionage. And I wouldn't have figured that out if it weren't for the anti depressants.

@MsLPSFOREVER

2 жыл бұрын

Yes! This was so important. I've managed to break down SOME of my trauma in one of my books, but it won't always be that way. I'm also trying not to make the story ABOUT me and about my characters instead.

@sunphoenix1231

2 жыл бұрын

Or even do anything related to trauma, by being a therapist, counselor or support specialist. It feels like sometimes we have to help other people to help ourselves but the best thing for some people to do is just focus on what they like. I know I feel like a failure when I can't help people in the way that they need help.

@randompromises1038

2 жыл бұрын

oddly enough, i can write about my traumas from a fictional perspective, but can't actually write it in a sort of autobiographical way whatsoever. it's easier for me to approach it at an objective perspective but when it comes to personally digging up those feelings, i find it damn near impossible.

@uniraffesaur

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheHealerIzAwesome T H I S. All my life as a writer, I wanted to try to use my own experiences in my work like I'd always heard. "Write what you know" after all. But I just always felt so weird and unnatural trying to funnel my experiences into a fictional context. It turns out I just create a better story when I lose myself in an escapist narrative rather than using it to directly go through and relive my trauma.

When I watch this episode, I always think that part of the reason Diane finds it so hard to quantify the abuse she suffered as a child is that her parents were abusive in a much more subtle way than BoJack's parents (who drank, fought in front of him, and repeatedly blamed him for their horrible lives right to his face) and even Princess Carolyn's mother (an alcoholic who relied on her far too much). And Diane knows about BoJack's parents. I can't help feeling like she's subconsciously comparing her unsupportive, sexist father and mother who never forgave her for leaving home to his much, much worse parents and second-guessing herself about whether it was really "that bad". And I like that the writers went with the more subtly crappy parents for Diane, because it shows that parents don't have to scream and yell and hit to mess a child up.

@sakurashy8492

2 жыл бұрын

Wouldn’t it be ironic or poetic or something if Bojack decided to write his own book of essays on his trauma? After he gets out of prison and he needed to a project to distract himself. It started out as a way to reflect his actions and overtime he makes a best selling novel. It works for Bojack as it can be his revenge against a father who wrote a flop.

@yamato6114

2 жыл бұрын

Ah yes. The “it wasn’t that bad” statement… Often if people suffered from a toxic relationship and it was more subtle, they are reluctant to admit the relationship was abusive because it wasn’t as bad as the extreme examples. I remember the time when I was 15, an adult man whom I trusted sent me sexually charged messages on Skype and coerced me into a digital sex roleplay. He even sent me a nude of himself. Even today, I struggle to call that sexual abuse because hey, at least he never touched me right?

@taurus7911

Жыл бұрын

@@yamato6114 Fuck man… I know exactly how that feels.

@maddymooo

Жыл бұрын

This is how I've felt in life. My parents were extremely emotionally abusive. However, I doubted I was abused for ages. I was isolated, so I had no idea parents shouldn't scream at their children. That parents shouldn't keep telling you you'll die at 30 while you're eating ramen noodles. However, I knew there was worse. My parents even brought this up. My mom used examples of her time in social work and recent events. "I had patients who parents said they would kill them!! There was a grandmother who abandoned her grandson at a gas station!" They even brought up the Parkland shooting once. Very nice, mom. My point is, this happens to so many people who weren't so blatantly abused compared to others. I had no idea their actions were considered abusive until I was 14 or 15. Rough stuff.

@Lillireify

Жыл бұрын

I relate to Diane so much, especially with her knowing she was abused and simultaneously doubting that because my father wasn't conventionally abusive by being an alcoholic or beating me or mom up or anything that screams "abuse". The worst part is I'm forgetting so much stuff because I went to therapy!! Before it I couldn't describe what was abusive (and everyone doubted my story which frankly didn't help), and now I'm having trouble remembering. I still have a lot of anger towards him about being both abusive and neglectful towards me But at least I think I'm not afraid of him anymore, which is nice!

This character arc of Diane's makes her a counterpart to Bojack's father Butterscotch. Both are authors struggling with what they consider their magnum opus; Butterscotch has his "great American novel," and Diane has her essays about her childhood. They each run into difficulties completing the project. Diane suffers from writer's block on account of her not actually WANTING to finish it for any reason than to prove that her abuse was "good damage." Butterscotch finds himself ostracized by the writing community he sought to be a part of because his views were considered outdated. The difference is in how they approach these complications. Diane eventually accepts that working on her project is detrimental to her mental health, and while she doesn't exactly WANT to be writing middle-grade children's books, she's happier working on that project and admits to herself that getting side tracked with the shopping mall detective story was the first time she'd had fun writing in a long time. Butterscotch, on the other hand, adamantly refuses to compromise. He eventually does publish his "great American novel," and...it's a spectacular failure. A failure which Butterscotch is so insecure about that he resorts to straight-up challenging people to old school duels over it. When he finally finds someone crazy enough to accept the challenge, he ends up tripping and braining himself on a rock. Butterscotch is what Diane could've become had she been stubborn and refused to compromise for the sake of her own mental health. Essentially, his stubbornness destroyed him and even cost him his life in the end. As Diane kept trying to force herself to complete her memoirs, her depression kept getting worse and worse. To state the obvious, depression often leads to suicide. So it's not unreasonable to speculate that if Diane had considered down that path, she'd have eventually tried to hurt herself or worse.

@Johnny2Cellos

2 жыл бұрын

love this parallel

@MoonstarWStarmoon

2 жыл бұрын

What a nice analysis!

@chasegreen4103

2 жыл бұрын

He had to compromise work wise (working for Butterscotch's company) so it probably fueled to stubbornness with his novel

@zachausler-rawle3773

2 жыл бұрын

@@Johnny2Cellos just liked ur reply so u now have 69 likes 😎

@alexvaughan1013

2 жыл бұрын

@@zachausler-rawle3773 Such a beautiful number, 69!

one thing i think is interesting about the belle room is that mr peanutbutter mentions how hard it was to get all those fake books or something, and like, a bookworm like diane would obviously want real books, which kinda goes to show how little mr pb actually knows about diane

@chasegreen4103

2 жыл бұрын

I've definitely thought about this!! How boring it would be to spend time in a belle room or library filled with books that you have no interest in reading. Imagine if you're in a library filled with thousands of books you've never discovered but are right up your alley. Give me a nice couch and I would spend weeks in that room

@MK-ophelia

2 жыл бұрын

Right? He so completely didn't understand her, I don't know how people can get mad at her for being upset with him.

@geministrial950

2 жыл бұрын

@@MK-ophelia I must admit i reacted badly when i first watched that episode, but that's just because i am sucker for grand gestures lol. When i stepped back and saw the bigger picture i realized that this was really a case of PB ignoring what his significant other wanted in favor of his own ideas and wants. No grand gesture will ever make up for being an uncaring partner.

@brandonjohnson994

2 жыл бұрын

This made me think about The Great Gatsby. In that book Gatsby has a huge lavish library full of books. When it's discovered that the books are fake its seen as a superficial display of opulence. It could very much be interpreted in a similar way here, but instead of in relation to the character's self image and insecurity in the case of Gatsby, it's meant to refer to emptiness and misunderstanding in PB and Diane's marriage. Just musing, love the content Johnny, keep it up.

@manband20

2 жыл бұрын

It reminds me of the quote from the Tim Burton and Johnny Depp movie "Ed Wood" about the man of the same name who made awful terrible movies and was a total carny in real life. Context: A fake tombstone falls over in the middle of a shot, but Ed wants to keep going and pretends it doesn't happen. "Nobody will ever notice that. Filmmaking is not about the tiny details. It's about the big picture!" Even though his heart was in the right place, it was a hollow gesture that had no little regard for Diane. The only "attention to detail" was the half-assed smiley face on the globe (which still makes me laugh to this day because fuck is that dumb thing so funny lol)

Diane was quite a relatable character for many. A struggling, millennial-aged person trying to fill that void of wanting to make a difference in the world, but not knowing how and often questioning if it is even worth it, yet not giving up. Wanting to do good but always worrying about how genuine the root of that "want" is.

@nbac26

2 жыл бұрын

That's beautifully expressed, thank you. I totally agree

@notaburneraccount

2 жыл бұрын

That is exactly how I feel. Well said.

@Ale-rq1nz

2 жыл бұрын

this is why she’s one of my faves

@calebmccardell7030

2 жыл бұрын

Wow this is such a perfect encapsulation of this generation.

@KD-ou2np

2 жыл бұрын

You put that very well thanks

It sucks some people have to justify their trauma by saying it made them stronger. You can be a strong person even without a sad backstory.

@axelpatrickb.pingol3228

2 жыл бұрын

Gotta love the human mind and the mental gymnastics needed to justify just about anything...

@Pheatan

2 жыл бұрын

Its part of coping. Its easier to say your trauma made you a better person than the more realistic answer which is that it doesn’t affect you or affects you negatively.

@SleepyKwee

2 жыл бұрын

It's a way of accepting/coping, when someone goes through such events, they will try to grasp at straws and convince themselves that they've come out better for it. It's not always reality, sure, but it makes you feel like at least something good came from it. That all your suffering was worth it in the end because if not, then it's just pain you've endured for no good reason.

@veronicapiccinini7956

2 жыл бұрын

They say “misery builds character” but it can also destroy it. Bully apologists, for example, use this as an excuse to sit idly by and allow bullying to continue, believing that the abuse will make the victims stronger. The results: not so much. While it is true that people have become stronger in the face of adversity, this does not mean adversity always makes someone stronger. The key thing is that adversity does build character if you do something to overcome it, many bully apologists forget this fact when the victim is clearly overmatched and/or has no one to recur. Remember, if you are being bullied and it's too much for you, there's no shame in seeking help; and best of all, your actions count towards building character. Even if you DO something to overcome it, if the trauma is strong enough there are good chances of developing post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). And even if you DO avoid the PTSD, there are good chances you learn physical violence is a perfectly good solution of any adversities.

@namiy3499

2 жыл бұрын

i hate when ppl say "at least it made u stronger" i never asked to be stronger, i never needed to be stronger ? i was a kid who didnt need to be strong, i needed to be safe

This is an episode that really hit home for me. I've had similar thoughts for years and had never heard it spoken about out loud until watching Bojack. Gives me chills everytime I hear the line, "That means that all the damage I got isn’t ‘good damage’. It’s just damage..."

I still can't believe Diane's father was a teacher. He probably was a horrible one

@pagandaddy9458

2 жыл бұрын

Well, he was tenured, and from what I’ve heard, lot of tenured professors are horrible. They can’t be fired, plus they’re getting a paycheck, so they don’t care. So that just makes it worse lol.

@jaijaibinxno6064

2 жыл бұрын

Idk, some teachers can be terrible people but good teachers. I know cuz that's how my friend was. At least when we were still friends that's how he was

@mysterycass9072

2 жыл бұрын

I think it would actually be worse if he wasn't. If he was a good teacher, it meant that it wasn't him not being informed or lazy that was the issue. It was that he just chose not to teach Diane anything about her heritage.

@jaijaibinxno6064

2 жыл бұрын

@@mysterycass9072 I honestly think that this would make things make more sense since it highlights how vile Diane's parents were as people

@Pheatan

2 жыл бұрын

Hes being a dick about it but he’s not exactly wrong in that “Vietnamese history” is his job. Vietnamese history in his mind is very different to what Diane is asking. She wants to know about her personal attachment to the culture whereas in an academic sense, Vietnamese history is quite general, i.e who ruled the land, historical events, stuff that realistically has nothing to do with her. Honestly as someone with heritage in an Eastern Europe country, theres usually a reason why the family left, Vietnam probably sucked for her family and the U.S was a better alternative, so that idea was passed down to her dad, who now knows less than them.

My fiancé actually burst into tears over this episode because Diane reminded him so much of me. I'm also a nerdy writer who's dealt with a lifetime of bullying and abuse from my immediate family and my schoolmates, and against my better judgement I hope that my book becomes a success and a big "fuck you" to the countless people who've damaged me.

@vienna-mf8xb

2 жыл бұрын

How are you now?I hope you and your husband will have a good relationship for a long time!

@leorosenblum3823

2 жыл бұрын

i know i’m late but what is your book? is it published yet? :)

@chip0109

Жыл бұрын

I'm looking forward to reading your book!

@r4tz4sn4ckz

8 ай бұрын

im 2 years late, but i just wanted to tell you how amazing that is!!! i always get so happy hearing about people who had been abused (like me) move forward and fulfill their dreams. it gives me hope, knowing that we haven't given up.

I also love that in this episode PC actually does care about Ivy Tran. With the book of essays she was producing it up like usual bc thats her job, but with Ivy Tran she took the time to tell Diane that she legitimately liked it for what it was & she wants it to be available for her daughter

@kahaniwala121

Жыл бұрын

I always thought it was just her trying to get Diane to write more on it, but that’s just my cynicism ig 😂

@narlabegins

12 күн бұрын

​@@kahaniwala121Nah, PC may be cynical at first, but she's the most heartfelt character in the series. She would never say things like that if she didn't mean it.

Its pretty dope how the ultimate character development for Diane is finally getting rid of everything and everyone that was involved in LA, especially Bojack. She was constantly tied with him, cleaning up his messes, and forced to be his "guardian angel", something that she was extremely uncomfortable with doing. Letting him go means that she can finally move on with her life and not deal with the cloud looming over her head that is bojack. But its also interesting that despite all the toxicity that Bojack brings, shes still gonna miss and love him moving forward. Its a bittersweet but also equally appropriate way to end her character arc.

Honestly, Trauma isn't talked about enough in media. When they talked about it in BoJack, it made me understand that I do in fact have trauma from my abuser, and that after all of these years, I still do, even though I thought I was better. When they talked about it in Steven Universe Future, it made me realize just how easy someone can put up a disguise of 'I'm fine', even if something horrible has happened. Which made me realize I did that, and sometimes still do purely because of how I coped with my trauma. At some point in everyone's life, there will sadly be trauma. Some small, some big, but there is always trauma. So why isn't it talked about enough?

@eellsler

2 жыл бұрын

i totally agree. trauma is so prevalent in many peoples’ lives yet it’s barely talked about in the media? it’s a really interesting topic that perhaps some shows or films don’t want to get into but when a show like bojack horseman delves into it, you know they’re going to do it right - and so they did. good damage really was one of those episodes that made me step back and think about my outlook on life and also made me realise that as much as i love todd as a character (he’s my fav), i relate to diane a lot more; this was difficult to admit because of how i saw diane. also, i hope you’re in a better place now. abuse of any kind is an abhorrent and traumatic experience and even though you may struggle mentally for a while, there are always people that are going to care about you. have a good day/night.

@Spicy_Pacifist

2 жыл бұрын

@@eellsler Thank you. I am in a better place, and my abuser is out of my life. I'd like to say I'm 100% better, but with mental and emotional abuse, that's sadly not really possible. I do sometimes slip up, like acting like how I was 'taught' to, or taking things too hard in fear of being judged and manipulated, (for example, my sister once said that my music is weird. Now I refuse to play any music of mine because I'm scared of being judged). But everyday is a new chance to get better, and to improve. I will say, the one line of BoJack that always makes me feel better, is the line Mr. Peanut Butter says to Diane. "If we met each other how we are now, we wouldn't be the same people." (I probably said it wrong but I hope you understand what I mean). As it makes me feel better, as through my trauma, I learned how to stand up for myself more, learned how to fightback, and I even learned more about myself in general, like my sexuality through it.

@j.o.g.j

2 жыл бұрын

thats why i believe therapy is for everyone even the people who are "fine", theres always something underneath

@Spicy_Pacifist

2 жыл бұрын

@@j.o.g.j Exactly! Sadly I tried therapy, but it didn't exactly work because since I was still very nervous about it, my parents would sit in with me to help me be more comfortable. Sadly they kept accidently talking about issues with themselves, instead of me talking about my issues. They didn't mean to, of course, as the therapist told them to stop once as they realized it was a pattern, and my parents apologized profusely as they didn't even realize what they were doing. But by then, I didn't want to continue because I felt like therapy was for others, not me. Which sucks, as I do have things I think therapy would help with, but I no longer have the time for therapy

@mochaest1994

2 жыл бұрын

I was mind blown when SUF mentioned trauma. Suddenly EVERYTHING made sense

What stuck out to me a lot about this episode was Diane questioning if her past was really all that bad. Big Trauma and Little Trauma is a real term psychologists use; big trauma is a large experience (ie. surviving a shooting) and little trauma is the accumulation of small moments (ie. being in an emotionally abusive relationship). Both are very harmful but little trauma is difficult to legitimize because when you only look at it one piece at a time, it can look harmless or even petty. It reminded me of when I would talk about an exhausting and manipulative family member, it just sounded like funny stories. Friends would laugh and even say they’d “love to meet him” because he sounded like a kooky character. Like how Diane’s brothers pranked her, it’s cruel but funny and just one piece to a larger picture where Diane was on the receiving end of years of harassment from her home and school. I think part of why Diane was struggling was because she believed her trauma was important but when she doubted her own pain, it’s like she was nothing.

My dissertation is about why well-intentioned people misunderstand others. In it, I use Mr. Peanutbutter and Diane's relationship as my primary example. Whereas, Mr. Peanutbutter over-relies on self-reference to understand her, while Guy conceptualizes her as a person outside of him and tries to cue into her mental state and what he knows about her to inform his helping interventions. I love how this vid talks about that dynamic!

@offbeatkiki

2 жыл бұрын

That is awesome.

Something occurred to me while watching this about Diane's Dad: Although he's a professor, he has completely rejected his Vietnamese identity and adopted a new one as a Bostonian. He doesn't have a solid foundation to his own identity so it makes sense Diane wouldn't either since he never modeled that behavior.

I know that it’s probably already said before but I think it’s pretty neat how Diane is carrying on the Horsin’ Around impact with her book, which is making people feel less alone with even if it was corny.

@roseolivas08

2 жыл бұрын

It’s the absolute best way to end her story. Now some other lonely asian American kid in Boston will be able to at least have an escape until they get out.

@offbeatkiki

2 жыл бұрын

This is an amazing take, thanks both of you for pointing this out 😭

@daorignaldumbucket

2 жыл бұрын

I'd like to add that the creation of Diane's mall detective series is made away from the toxicity of the toxic LA work culture, meaning it's possible to find fulfillment outside of the usual means

I used to feel so..mad. My uncle had no right to do that to me. And I just, I wanted it, so bad to be worth it, I didn’t wanna have to go through all that pain for nothing. Which is why I love this episode, because it showed me, that it would be okay. It’s so relatable, so well written, and so beautiful in it’s own way. I know that I’ll be okay. And this episode helped me discover that. -Albert

@Johnny2Cellos

2 жыл бұрын

So glad the show helped you 🙏

@user-tk1ef2pt8t

2 жыл бұрын

I…I really hope you’re ok

@vienna-mf8xb

2 жыл бұрын

How are you now bro?

Also something that isn't pointed out; the destigmatizing of the anti depressants; she just holds them up like "YEAH I'm medicated now" and I loved that for her

Bottom Line: There’s no such thing as a “good damage”. 99% of trauma happens with no reason and it is pointless and meaningless. It’s like a broken mirror: you can put its pieces back together whenever you want, but it will never reflect you the same way as before. P.S. Can you please review “Free Churros”? That’s one of the best Bojack Horseman episode. Like how Bojack tries (and fails) to say something nice to her dead mother, how he knows he will never find closure to her, and how in the end both his parents, who were horrible (horse) people in life, got an undignified and pathetic death as a karmic punishment

@nidohime6233

2 жыл бұрын

Is it really a karmic death, or just death? Is not like we can choose how we are gonna die. Most of us would do in a very mundane way. Even as just a number in a newspaper.

@veronicapiccinini7956

2 жыл бұрын

@@nidohime6233 it’s karmic, because his father got killed by his own pride, and his mother died senile, dead brain like her mother, something that she tried to avoid as a child.

@gracekim25

2 жыл бұрын

@@veronicapiccinini7956 mmm good point

@alexh99

2 жыл бұрын

Sometimes trauma leads us to grow in ways we never would have before. Speaking from experience. It shouldn't happen but it does and sometimes good things can come from bad things

@jennifervan75

2 жыл бұрын

Where is your pfp from? It looks familiar

as someone who dealt with similar trauma to penny, seeing someone talking about her experience as serious trauma helps a lot. (cough unlike another bojack youtuber cough cough) This opened my eyes to a lot of little details, which is why i always love these videos.

@blaizeday7374

2 жыл бұрын

Who who??

@notatallfunctional

2 жыл бұрын

Shady?

@pink733

2 жыл бұрын

yeah shady doorags' take on trauma was absolutely disgusting. no we should not listen to the attackers' perspective. nothing justifies what he did

@timeparadox593

2 жыл бұрын

@@blaizeday7374 shady doorags

@2cat4life

2 жыл бұрын

BUUURN

I felt like, for years, I could never make good art because I've never suffered enough, everyone always says the best art comes out of trauma. But I wanna be able to enjoy making my art without having to feel like I need to be entirely broken down first. This episode was important for me to help understand that wasn't true, art comes from wherever you want it to, not just your damage

@nastykidneys3075

2 жыл бұрын

@Something Something art can be anything and everything, people who go through trauma are taught to use our trauma to fuel our art and you know what? Sometimes it just makes us worse. Art is everything and everything not just glamourising trauma

What I love is how this episode reflected Diane's fears from The Face Of Depression. She was scared of losing her creativity, which is something that a lot of artists with mental illnesses are afraid of. Her, not being able to write her book, only fueled those fears and caused her to stop taking the medication, leading to her meltdown. There's a fear that resides in most folks with mental illnesses. It's a fear of recovery. At some point, the person we were before the trauma dies. Our illness or disorder takes the place of what was once our personalities. It gets channeled into our art, music, writing, comedy, ect. People like the things we make which, in turn, gives us validation. But, when you recover, you start to realize that all the things that everyone liked about you were all part of your disorder. You don't know who you are outside of the trauma. You have to create a whole new you but you don't know how. And you're scared. Scared that you won't be as creative or that people won't like you anymore. So, you sink back in to the depression or the anxiety or the mania. Because you're comfortable there. That person is familiar to you.

"Good damage" pretty sums up the trope of the tortured artist. I never was a fan of that unwritten requirement and always believed that you can create art regardless of emotions or trauma... Edit: now that I think about it, Guy and Sonny being represented as American bison started to make sense. It is almost rare to find a person who would understand someone with issues as Diane, and it is almost rare to find a teenager who understands the nuances of any uncomfortable adolescent situation especially of the opposite sex...

@nidohime6233

2 жыл бұрын

Are bisons the Bojack version of native americans? I mean even real bisons where nearly extinct.

@mochaest1994

2 жыл бұрын

Mind blowing! I love small details like this in the show

I relate to this. Sometimes I wish my childhood trauma, teenage, and adult trauma didn’t happen. I often wonder if I would be happier if I had a better and healthier life. Healthier family, friends, circumstances, etc. Maybe things would have been better, maybe they would not have. Regardless, there is no do over or going back. There is making best of what has happened. And what happened doesn’t have to be overly significant. It’ll always be a part of you, yet the events don’t have to define you. I’m still trying. To grasp its understanding

My best friend wrote a fanfiction short where Diane, happily living in Houston with Guy and Sunny, gets a call from her goat brother, whichever one he is, asking her to come be in his wedding. And Diane reacts accordingly, sneering about where the hidden cameras will be and whether or not he paid off his fiancée to remember her name. When he asks what she’s talking about, Diane reminds him of her pen pal and states she isn’t falling for that bullshit anymore. When he says it’s legitimate, she tells him “I don’t care. I have my own life, my own family, and my own future. I don’t need you, and I especially don’t need you cluttering up my thoughts anymore.” And then she hangs up. It doesn’t provide any real closure, obviously, but it was sure a satisfying read, if not a little bittersweet because Diane ends the story effectively disowning her abusive family. Because the abusers are never going to remember the abuse, or remember it AS abuse. For them, it was a Tuesday. It will never have the same effect on them as it did their victims. Which is why there’s often no point in calling them out on it years later.

@jenaquinthejester4156

9 ай бұрын

That story sounds like a good read, do you have a link to it?

@SitaraAleu

9 ай бұрын

@@jenaquinthejester4156 She never posted it unfortunately. I’ll try to convince her to if she still has it

@jenaquinthejester4156

9 ай бұрын

@@SitaraAleu I hope that goes well, it sounds like a good one ☺

Diane was one of those characters that I felt frustrated with sometimes because she felt close enough to me that when she acted in a way I wouldn't, it was discordant to my perception of her. But everything about "Good Damage" felt right and true even though I haven't gotten to the point in my journey that she has. I love that episode, and I love how Diane's story turned out! It gives me hope that succeeding with my trauma and failures doesn't mean becoming an ultra success--it means coming to terms and not letting them hold me back from the happiness that is within my reach.

"We see no size at Trauma." WOW I never noticed that line before watching this too 😩

I cried on and off through this video. Diane is my favorite character in Bojack, and her trauma resonated so well with me. You all did a beautiful job with this. Kiki summed everything up beautifully.

@offbeatkiki

2 жыл бұрын

thanks for watching

Obligatory: Offbeatkiki and Johnny2Cellos? What is this, a crossover episode? Sign me up. A thousand times yes. I love both of these channels and their content! And Yaaaaay way to plug the podcast!

@offbeatkiki

2 жыл бұрын

thanks for watching :))))

I loved Diane and I’m so glad that she ended up with Guy. He was such a good fit for her.

I just want to say, thank you so much for making this video and tackling it how you did. Diane deserves more love and sympathy than she is currently getting. A worrying amount of people on KZread are totally okay with sympathising with Bojack's and others' trauma, but with Diane, she isn't given that grace as if her trauma means nothing and she's not justified in her struggles. And whenever her own problems come up, there's conveniently an excuse brought up that invalidates her feelings. Think people will know what I mean, especially one certain reviewer who does this. Diane does so much for so many, lets face it, toxic people in her life that she has forgotten how to put herself first. I'm so happy with the ending Diane got, and I'm glad for this episode's existence.

@LauraGrrrr5370

2 жыл бұрын

I think the reason some fans don't like Diane is that she can generally "adult" better than BoJack and so they expect her to do better. When she mentions in season 6 that she'd been treated for depression earlier in her life, suddenly it made sense that she was so drawn to Mr. Peanutbutter, perpetually upbeat and optimistic, showering her with praise even for the smallest accomplishments (which eventually began to sound sarcastic/passive-aggressive to her). No wonder she stayed with him so long. U gais she was depressed this whole time and desperately seeking happiness from an outside source.

@offbeatkiki

2 жыл бұрын

Love this comment!

@RumbleDelta

2 жыл бұрын

@@LauraGrrrr5370 Exactly, Mr.PB is a good guy but not who Diane needed, and that’s made evident throughout season 6 but what I love is that despite this, it’s clear that Diane and PB still do love each other just not on that level. Diane needed someone like Guy, someone who sees things on her level and actually knows how to make her happy. I think a lot of people like Mr. PB to the point where they completely overlook the flaws he has especially with his relationship to Diane in their marriage years.

@hkazu63

2 жыл бұрын

@@RumbleDelta I’m not even sure its about liking him. I think a lot of them just have a very surface level view of his actions vs Diane’s. I think these people prize the intent over the reality of the situations, and see Mr Peanutbutter’s actions in a wholly sympathetic way; that he is trying his best to help Diane, but Diane refuses to accept that help. They share his cluelessness to not see that PB is just not understanding Diane, because Diane isn’t surface level in this. She doesn’t want a literal Belle Room, she just wants something to ground her when she is struggling, a safe refuge from her own strife. With some others, I think this kickstarts stubborn dislike, where people conclude that they don’t like Diane and therefore never shall - I’ve even seen people allege that Diane is actually an abuser for this, because she is making PB feel like he can never live up to her expectations, pushing him to make grander gestures, but as we’ve established, its just the fundamental misunderstanding of her. Personally, I think there’s just a grand misogyny to it, in which these viewers don’t consider the woman’s point of view, and cry that she should put aside her own personal feelings and just accept whatever the man gives her.

@RumbleDelta

2 жыл бұрын

@@hkazu63 I think you're completely right about your last point. I remember getting very frustrated with PB and to me, the Belle room was the last straw. It doesn't help that Diane never seems to get an apology from the men that give her grief, and yet she must apologise to them whenever she does the same thing. I know some might consider this to be a "strong" part of her character, like she's the bigger person cause she doesn't "need" an apology from them to keep helping them. No, I don't like that. I think the biggest issue is that, Diane is NOT the "manic pixie dream girl" who swoops in and solves all the brooding man's problems. She's a woman, and she's human. And humans don't work like that. People praise this show for having the characters behave like real people... except Diane who SHOULDN'T behave like a real person and should be what people assume a woman should be. This isn't what I think, don't get me wrong, but it's what I've noticed.

Bojack is one of the few TV shows that protray the effects of emotional abuse in childhood without having to result to physical abuse. Usually, abusive parents are portrayed as clearly complete monsters. Emotional abuse can be more insidious making it harder to acknowledge even by the person being abused

As soon as Kiki started talking about Learned Helplessness how depression relates to a feeling of powerlessness I started to get teary-eyed. I just clicked on this video and listened to it in the background cause I like both ur content and Bojack, so I honestly wasn't expecting that to hit so close to home. That is very much how I feel all the time, especially when my depression is hitting hard. Everything feels so pointless in every aspect of my life and life in general, and I feel powerless.

@offbeatkiki

2 жыл бұрын

I've been dealing with a lot of the same troubles as Diane for my entire life, so I feel this comment. Just know this won't last forever. You can fight your way out too like she did.

It may sound stupid but these videos mean so much to me. Bojack horseman was a show I started in like 2017 and have not stopped watching since. These videos make me feel better about the show ending. It’s amazing work

@dontcare9861

2 жыл бұрын

@Oreo I meant I keep rewatching it since😂

I love how later on in the series Diane is more of herself now since throughout the first to the third seasons it was like she was still trying play everything off as fine and that she was happy and how she never opened up emotionally however, she wasn’t not to mention that she looks so much better now, she’s taking her medicine and she gain weight (which is awesome) and it’s like she’s finally at piece with herself. I have mild depression and i take my medicine even when I don’t want to but I love how far Diane has come including from a shitty house hold and from a rushed marriage with Mr. Peanut Butter and to where she is now. I love how’s she’s one of my favorite characters throughout the show along with Princess Carryon, Todd and HollyHock.

I love the thing about the kintsugi because I associate those with cheap motivational Instagram posts about "resilience".

This is the opposite of 13 Reasons Why. Depression, trauma and death are practically a fetiche for 13 Reasons Why, what the characters suffered through is what they are entirely, nothing GOOD is part of them and their lives revolves around trauma, it goes well beyond to place the main character's death as the most important thing she ever did and give it meaning. Diane and othrr characters in Bojack Horseman make it clear: tragedy has no meaning, there is no higher purpose to it, it didn't "happen in order for me to learn/do/be X". It's something bad that you went through and you are so much more than that.

@j.o.g.j

2 жыл бұрын

Tho i agree tragedy has no higher purpose, it does mean something because it becomes you, its a part of your history

@laurocoman

2 жыл бұрын

@@j.o.g.j yes, it does leave a dent in your persona. But trying to give it meaning is dangerous because you end up giving the message that all that suffering and tragedy had to happen and that your audience should aspire to be a victim of their circumstances just like you were. This is like saying a great artist was so just BECAUSE of their suffering, not IN SPITE of it. It's dangerous to tell people they are nothing but their lowest point and glorifying it.

@gracekim25

2 жыл бұрын

The fact that 13 reasons why did it wrong😅

@j.o.g.j

2 жыл бұрын

@@laurocoman i never said that, i agree with you. I just wanted to add that clarification

@laurocoman

2 жыл бұрын

@@j.o.g.j thanks, mate. Have a good one.

And to think they say that trauma is trauma whether it's good or bad, but either way you're sadly stuck with it for life.

This episode is one that hits way too close to home for a variety of reasons. The similarities between Diane and myself in this episode is actually kind of scary - I happen to be an aspiring writer from Boston, so that's a funny little coincidence. Before I started taking antidepressants, I had that same fear Diane has - that I wouldn't be able to access the hurt and pain I've endured should I need it for my writing. And all this time, I wasn't "meant" to go through that pain, it's all just trauma. I didn't get anything from it, there's nothing "beneficial" to having been put through the trauma I've faced. It's just damage that is now a part of me. A part of me I didn't ask for, and might not like, but it's still a part of me. You're not "stronger" because you were hurt. That's honestly a hard pill to swallow.

@i.l0ve_c4tsss

2 жыл бұрын

i hope your writing career succeeds :) (by the way i love your profile picture, chuuya supremacy)

@dove_annarchie6787

2 жыл бұрын

I still can't swallow and a part of me refuses to;;;; I like to believe that all the bullying I endured made me more compassionate and prevented me from being conceited, but I'm forced to see that, no, it just destroyed my self-esteem and made me suicidal. Nothing good came of it. Then again, if life was fair, that would mean I deserved it, right?

Diane struggled to write a book on the other hand Mr. Peanutbutter did it with ease. I is one of the best punchlines of the show, some people struggle to achieve something while to others it comes naturally

@emilyzaitz2687

2 жыл бұрын

I agree! Earlier in the series, this would have sent Diane into a spiral for sure. But instead she’s just a little annoyed at the irony of the whole thing. Such a great subtle way to show her growth

This was a very special episode for me (no pun intended lol). I was going through a similar transformation to Diane and Penny. At the time, I had recently become aware of my past (and active trauma). It opened up that door and was overwhelmed by what was behind it. I felt a compulsive need to "save" other kids from what I had to go through. For a long time, I was recovering for the sole purpose of becoming a therapist. Just like Diane, I thought it would make it all mean something. Their stories of recovery felt so personal to me. In group therapy, I experienced first hand how great it is to learn that you ARENT special for having trauma. There's no one definition of trauma and so many people have it. Ultimately, I realized being a therapist wasn't for me. It gave me the freedom to chose a life for myself. I am now pursuing ministry. I have to give the show some credit for validating what I was going through. It truly is the best TV show ever.

I live in Houston and there’s tons of Vietnamese communities. I like to think that Diane will find one near her home and have the best of both worlds living in America but still getting in on those Vietnamese roots she longed for awhile ago

This pretty much sums up how I love and can relate with Diane

The last dialog between Diane and Princess Carolyn makes me cry more than any other dialog in the show because its so real yet, in the end, so kind and optimistic. One of the best episodes imo

“ The happy shoes are so off they’ve been donated to Goodwill“ JEEEEESUS CHRIST THAT WAS GOOD

@offbeatkiki

2 жыл бұрын

LMAO thanks 😅

Watching Bojack horseman especially Diane made me realize I had depression and I got help and started getting better and now I'm happy it feels great

I love both these channels WHY AM I JUST WATCHING THIS NOW??!!

@offbeatkiki

2 жыл бұрын

I didn't like Diane when I started to watch the series, I was so focused on Bojack that I was off put by her. But watching this made me realize maybe the reason I didn't like Diane was because of my own traumas. How she represented my own thought patterns and at the time, I wasn't ready to deal with them. Looking at these now and seeing how her relationship with Mr.PB went makes me appreciate how strong she was to leave and start a new life, to take care of herself even if she needed reassurance from her new partner. Because that's what someone who loves you does, they reassure you you're on the right path and want to see you grow. I might have to rewatch the series again, thank you both for this video.

This episode is so incredibly resonant to me. A lot of time, trauma is portrayed as this definitive, simplistic, even glamorous defining moment(s) for a character - an assault, violence, a death, or an illness - but in actuality, trauma can be...mundane. Repetitive. Individual and nuanced, but not interesting or theatrical. & a lot of people believe it wasn't "bad enough" for them to feel so bad. So to see this sort of..."mundane" familial trauma represented feels refreshing.

This episode cemented my bond with Diane as the character I relate to the most of the show. She has literally the exact same mentality about her writing and trauma that I do, and that I still struggle with.

I have never watched Bojack, only seen some clips here or there. However after watching through the video... honestly feels like I sorta needed to watch this. More in just talking about trauma and such. Feels like some stuff has become clearer to me, whether that sticks with me for a while here in the present and/or into the future is uncertain. In short, I'm glad I found this video and it has been very helpful in ways that I cannot accurately express at the moment. Thank you

That scene with Sonny is so heartwarming. It just makes me feel good in a way I can't quite articulate.

It’s definitely worth noting that she spirals so hard after stoping her meds because one of the most common side effects of going cold turkey on depression meds is increased depression and suicidal thoughts.

One of the all-time best episodes of this whole show. I love it so much.

I know this is late, but there's an interesting parallel with Dianne's book. When she was writing one trick pony for Bojack, she portrayed every part of Bojack's individual character and personality. Both the positive and the negative, which of course got people to sympathize and likely better understand themselves. Yet Bojack specifically rewrote the book to do nothing but glorify himself, showing none of his flaws whatsoever, which ended up in failure. This is the opposite, both in context and progression, of Dianne's book. Initially, she wants to write a book showcasing only her own flaws and trauma, to make something good out of it, thinking it would help people. Yet in reality, Ivy Tran encompasses her entire person, which ends up being what actually helped people out and became popular. It's a completely opposite form of progression, and I can't help but feel like it's a microcosm that really highlights the differences between the two of them.

Thank you so much for analyzing this! It's one of my favorites!

Trying to give meaning to my trauma too. Life has just been so hard growing up. I feel less of a human but Bojack Horseman has given me a sliver of hope. Thank you for breaking this episode down you guys

@offbeatkiki

2 жыл бұрын

the show did that for me too!

This was an incredibly analysis of this episode. Thank you for doing it. By far one of the best episodes in the entire series.

I was hoping you’d examine this episode and you killed this one!!!

How I a non-writer would have written the "So in a way, that salad bowl was me, and the cracks... were also me" line. In a way the bowl was me. Cracks and all. Instead of hiding them like I've done all my life showing them, embracing them is what can make you heal as a person. Thank you I suck at writing.

thank you SO MUCH for doing a video on this episode!!

I actually appreciate the way that Charlotte tried to encourage Penny to deal with her anxiety and trauma. Rather than focusing on turning into "good damage" and obsessing over how Bojack was getting popular again, to instead focus on her own life and making it better. She cannot control what goes on in Bojack's life, but she can control much of her own life. Not to discount her trauma, but rather help her to move forward from it. It reminded me a little bit of what the character Gina was going through. As she said to Bojack, as angry and horrified as she was with him and wanted to take him down, she didn't want her life and career to be defined by his violent action towards her. Unfortunately Gina swung the pendulum hard in the denial direction and seemed to never quite deal with her trauma appropriately, so it came out in other ways. As Gina does eventually get shown as the leading actor in the "Fireflame" movie, I hope that it means she eventually got the therapy she needed.

@taddad2641

Жыл бұрын

the primary issue i have with her is that.... Well, she's the one who created her own trauma. True bojack's behavior did cause their friend to get alcohol poisoning, but it was Penny who acutally chose to try and sleep with her mother's old friend who was old enough to be her father. The reality overlooked is that penny's trauma and guilt has been completely misdirected by her mother and hrself. Bojack was incredibly in the wrong for even allowing it to nearly progress ot that, however upset he was. But its not like he cornered penny or actually coerced her. He never groomed her at any point, it was her going by her own emotions and not being sensible. Bojack was no victim of course but neither really as Penny..... and that would lead to bojack losing the only family he valued in his life. seemingly forever.

@nineinchthread

Жыл бұрын

@@taddad2641 I mean he literally got very close to her so seems pretty sus to me

@carlycrays2831

11 ай бұрын

​@@taddad2641She was a teenager and she trusted him

@nostalgia.addict

9 ай бұрын

​@taddad2641 Okay so no she isn't. I've heard this pedo shit before and it's just blatantly false. She's a child. She does not have the ability to consent because she's to young to fully understand. She had no idea what she was asking for, and that does not mean she is at fault. He spent his time at her house being that "trusted adult" for her. He did groom her, not intentionally but he did. And he was going to take advantage of her, by his own admission. It was his responsibility as an adult to shut it down, not the naive child who didn't understand.

Thank you for this, Johnny!

Ever since I saw this episode, I started to have a deep connection with Diane. Hence, it holds a special place in my heart, thanks for breaking it down. And oh, I really love that thumbnail!

i used to write this story about teenagers and high school, much of it based on my own life, because i wanted to make other teens feel better about their own lives - it was only until much later that i realized i was utterly miserable making it, so i stopped writing it. needless to say i really related to diane this episode. good damage doesn't exist, it's just damage. and we don't always have to find a reason as to why that damage came to be

ive wanted you to do a video on this episode for the longest time!! artists are always so pressed to turn their hurting into something beautiful. as an actress so many times i've been pushed by teachers or peers to relive my own trauma before i had even come to terms with it to create "beautiful moments". this episode was the first time i ever heard anyone say that going through it is enough, and you dont have to create something lovely out of something horrible for it to matter. This episode and dianes character development in general are so encouraging toward healing!!! i love this show aaaaaa

WOW! Thanks for this video, Johny and Kiki! I love this show, have seen it multiple times, but this episode was hard for me to understand correctly. Now I do and makes SO MUCH SENSE NOW! And I also understand Diane much much better now, it's amazing how no matter how many times I watch this show, everytime I learn something new 💜 Keep up the good work and don't forget to rest and drink plenty of water, people!

Ok who's gonna talk about that amazing thumbnail tho?!

This was excellent! I was moved to tears by this

Absolute banger of an analysis. So proud of you Johnny

I like all the sketches really adds to the rawness of the episode

thank you so much for this video, genuinely, literally teared up a bit LMAO. you know what? teared up, a lot.

I love this video! Very well written and helped me understand Diane's character much better.

it's soooo good. The way you can't always qualify trauma or you give yourself a hard time for not coping better because it wasn't 'that bad.' Like I was emotionally and physically abused as a child, I had objects thrown at me, doors broken in. But I still feel like I shouldn't have gotten as messed up as I did, because it wasn't 'that bad.' I wasn't beaten to a pulp or anything. You feel as if it is entirely your fault. Diane is so relatable.

I just can't get over how beautiful this is.

The scene with Sonny was great compared to their first meeting. I believe when Sonny read Ivy Tran he saw a window into Diane’s mind and saw her true character making his preconceived notions about her vanish. It’s a small scene but it shows definite growth and support from other characters towards Diane.

I BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ONE. TURN IT UP!!

Loved this episode. And I love Diane and just the way they animated her depressive spiral was so amazing and then the slow change from that to the food court detective book was just so amazing and is truly how the creative process works sometimes. The show was just so good and visually representing mental processes it’s amazing

This episode was so intense I cried the whole time

@offbeatkiki

2 жыл бұрын

Me too, that first time watching was really a rollercoaster.

IM GOING CRAZY I’ve been waiting for a good damage ep for so long!!!

I've been waiting for this breakdown and it was phenomenal. It was amazing.

@offbeatkiki

2 жыл бұрын

Sometimes the analyses for some Bojack episodes hit harder than the episodes for me 😭 at least for this one. God this hit too close to home, with the greater subtlety of trauma, constantly asking oneself whether it was real or not and whether the damage was justified, the learned helplessness, the inability to really express one’s self, everything. Hats off to both of you in making this

Ooh I've been waiting for this! This is one of my favorite episodes, especially because I related to it. I wanted to write a story about my trauma making sure some good will come out of it but I can't bring myself to write it. It makes you feel guilty. But Diane's episode was helpful in reminding that damage is just damage and other stories can also help others. It always doesn't have to be traumatic stories. And it helps to hear that

man, y'all make great videos.. thank you for this

Thanks to this video, I understood a whole different side to Diane, despite watching this show multiple times. It also helped me understand myself a bit more. Great job you two! Fantastic video. Glad you're still addressing BoJack episodes.

Really loved this breakdown, especially the relation to Pennys story line. Great job team!

Really makes you think what's more important. Your mental health, or your career that pays the bills. I love this show

I'm glad you point out the message of how the things we have been through in our lives are what define us as who we are. A lot of things can happen without choice, but it's important to not look back on those things and to look at your purpose of living. There is so much expectation to have a massive impact on our society as well which creates the question of, "what is my purpose?", which leads back to the flipping over nothing to nothing

One of my favourites. Love the content

watching this episode made me finally realize why i, and many other people who have experienced trauma, try to convince ourselves that it made us more resilient or interesting or funny etc. it’s because we want to believe that we’ve gotten something in return for our suffering.

Great video. I'm going to watch the episode again now. Love your work.

I'm so glad you keep making bojack horseman videos! Keep em up :)

A few weeks ago, I told my boyfriend to not insist in the "everybody is odd" mindset. As I told him the "I'm not normal" he tried to argue that everybody has trauma or quirks, to which I told him "The day I don't feel like an alien in a room, that they maybe I'll believe him". I know every single one of us have some trauma to deal with, but sometimes our wounds are difficult to be dealt with.

@geministrial950

2 жыл бұрын

Yikes. Sounds like some gaslighting right there. Hope youre safe, stranger.

@monicadanielaroylamadrid4206

2 жыл бұрын

@@geministrial950 actually he apologized, and he said that I was right

@geministrial950

2 жыл бұрын

@@monicadanielaroylamadrid4206 Oh, thats great!

YESSS I WAS THINKING ABOUT JOHNNY MAKING A VIDEO ABOUT THIS EPISODE YESTERDAAAAY TYYYY

The thumbnails are always so good in so many ways.

Don’t mind me, just crying about this. Thank you to the both of you

@offbeatkiki

2 жыл бұрын

This episode is really special for me. Creatives are kind of expected to have trauma; it's why the whole "tortured artist" thing is a stereotype. So there is a lot of pressure to take what you've experienced and mold it into something beautiful for other people to enjoy. "Make the next "Rent" or "Starry Night" so it will all be worth it!" But I feel like most of us didn't go into a creative field to do something for others. We turned to writing and singing and painting as an escape from what we were experiencing as kids. It's telling that Horsin' Around and Ivy Tran are stated in-show to have a positive impact on those that experienced the media because they are an escape. The same can't be said for the documentary-style Secretariat or Bojack's memoir. Diane tried to define her career and her self through her trauma, when trauma is just how our brain reacted to life's metaphorical or literal punches. It's a part of the story, not the story itself.