I appreciate the 4-person reviews because of all the discussion and differences of opinion based on different gaming perspective.

Lol at Roy's sour expressions while Tom was giving his rating 😅

@rhino451

Жыл бұрын

lol i total agree with that expression.

I'm a hardcore TI player. Really loved this game playing it a GenCon, but there are some valid points in how it's got some missed opportunities translating this from the original TI. I think maybe the best approach is to not have too many expectations if you're TI player. It is a roll 'n write at the end of the day.

I continue to love these reviews with so many different opinions. I feel like I need to try this one to see how I feel

I grabbed the game today, gave it a whirl, and it's a great solo game. 🙂 One important thing about the solo game that didn't come up in the video is that voting is MUCH more important when you play solo against the AI than in the multiplayer game. The way it works solo is, when there's a vote, you deal out two effects, one a positive effect that helps you and the other a negative effect that hurts you. Then you spend your votes and try and beat the AI's votes. If you beat the AI they you get the positive effect, but if you lose you get the negative effect. And these aren't small effects. For instance the positive effect might be that you ignore any negative points for any wars you've lost the entire game, while the negative effect might be that you can't possibly get a reward in a future war even if you win it. So it really makes a difference whether or not you beat the AI in a vote. I'd go so far as to say it's a bit of a shame the multiplayer game doesn't work in a similar way, where the winning player gets a positive Agenda effect and the losing players get a negative effect. It would definitely make voting in multiplayer feel more important than the normal system they described in the video.

@waltlock8805

8 ай бұрын

Sounds like a great opportunity for a house rule.

2:04 Just like Space Station Phoenix, it's side A for "advanced" or "asymmetrical" and side "B" for "basic" or "beginner."

Only issue with Hadrians Wall is it is essentially a solo game. This looks good to bring some interaction into that.

Great review. I have the perspective of always wanting to have had a chance to Play TI, ever since I saw a copy of TI3 on a FLGS years ago and staring in awe, but never have. I also have only played one very light roll and write, (Blue Castle). I love sci fi and love Eclipse as my main 4x experience, (and backed Last Light), so I am interested to see how I feel about trying my copy of TI Insciption. I can appreciate all the opinions offered here. The advantage of multiple reviewers is paying dividends, since that is the purpose of a review channel. Love it.

I’m loving this game so much right now. Hope they support this game for years to come. The reason I like this more than Hadrian’s Wall is the factions abilities. They make each game feel unique and encourage you to approach the game in very different way. Hadrian’s Wall becomes more or less the same after you figure out what scores you the most points and what you should focus on. But I still love both. Also I’ve played with several people that love Twilight Imperium and they all enjoyed this implementation.

This is a perfect example of why doing an average would not work. An average does not specifically reflect the fact that Tom and Mike really like it and Roy thinks it’s thoroughly average. . This was a great game to have four people give their own rating

@checkrazor76

Жыл бұрын

Wait isnt that why averages work to perfection? One guy says average 1 guy barely above average and 2 liked it a good bit. Average ends up being above average but not great. Pretty sure that's perfect

@hamakakun

Жыл бұрын

@@checkrazor76 statistically average works, yes. but subjectively it does not reflect the whole picture. a game sits on 7 (good) average does not give the impression it is a 9 (excellent) for some and a 4 (bad) for others. individual arguement in a review is what matters.

@flawed1

Жыл бұрын

Exactly,, a game that all 4 people agree is mediocre is not the same thing as a game that two people really like and two people really hate, even though both of those games would have the same average

@flawed1

Жыл бұрын

In other words, the average would say mediocre when, in fact, none of those people individually thought the game was mediocre

@Rincewindl

Жыл бұрын

Yea its why just a score dosent work. Experiences are subjective and you need at least a lil detail

Quick follow up with agendas, I think we found a good variant to use to make voting more impactful in multiplayer. Basically, handle agendas pretty much like you do in the solo game. Here’s how it works - When you have an agenda phase, first draw an agenda card and only use the Pass portion of it, ignore the fail. - Draw a random Fail agenda that has the opposite star/no star symbol at the top. So if the Pass has a star, draw a random Fail with no star, and vice versa. Note that the stars are positive effects, and the no-stars are negative effects, so you end up with one positive effect with a star and one negative effect with no star. - Now everybody secretly simultaneously allocates votes like usual - After votes are revealed, the players who spent the most votes use the positive effects on their boards. The players who spent the least votes use the negative effects on their boards. Players who are neither the most or least use neither effect. On the offchance all players tie then nobody uses any effect. So what this does is encourage you to spend votes to both get the positive effect if you win and avoid getting the negative effect if you lose. It makes voting a lot more significant since winning versus losing a vote is a noticeable effect.

@ianbarczewski5105

Жыл бұрын

I like where you're going with this idea. So, to clarify, as I think I'd like to use this in my next playthrough: Six players are voting. Player A puts in six votes. Player B puts in one vote. Players C, D, E, and F put in a range of two to five votes. If I understand you correctly, player A gets the positive outcome, player B gets the negative outcome, and C, D, E, and F get nothing - accurate? What if a player chooses to abstain from voting? I'm wondering if it might work out to do something similar to what you're saying, except that you can abstain from voting, and all players who do vote have to live with the positive or negative outcome. Maybe figure out how many votes on average were cast amongst voting players, and everyone above that gets the positive and everyone below gets the negative? Just tossing this idea out as it seems a little restrictive to only give both outcomes to one person each (if I understand you correctly)

@Bodyknock

Жыл бұрын

@@ianbarczewski5105 There’s no abstaining in the solo game, that’s just spending zero votes and automatically getting the negative result. By the way, another similar variant that is even easier is simply use the 1-2 player AI but ignore everything it does other than its council votes. So as the game goes on track the AI’s vote totals using the blue die just like you would if you played 1-2 players. When there’s a vote, draw two cards, one with a positive effect (starred card) and one with a negative effect (no star). Everybody spends votes simultaneously, then after you roll the die for the AI to get its voting goal. Every player that exceeds the AI’s voting goal gets to apply the positive effect, every player who doesn’t has to apply the negative effect. As in the variant above, this makes gathering and spending votes an actually useful goal since the difference between spending enough and not is a decent point swing. One last note, there are a couple of negative effect agenda cards which say “another player chooses X”. The designer clarified that for the AI game if you have to apply those you must apply the worst effect. Specifically, one card says to lose “1-3 Trade Goods”, so you would lose 3, and another says someone else picks a commodity and you have to cross off its victory points, in which case you should cross off the one you have the most points in or are furthest in getting points in.

@ianbarczewski5105

Жыл бұрын

@@Bodyknock I love that idea of using the AI solely for voting!

4 square reviews are so great. I love the variety of discussion and thoughts.

I’ve always understood it as A for advanced and B for basic, Tom

“Or don’t” lol

This is why I keep watching you guys. This constructive clash of opinions that gives game reviews so much more depth. Might give this game a spin or two.

Really enjoyed Mike's comments on this one

really love the group reviews guys, keep em coming

This...looks pretty interesting not going to lie. Love that it has a solo mode. It was either this or Hadrian's wall, but this compels me more cause of the "theme"

@realjon4220

Жыл бұрын

If you're still unsure I'd highly recommend Twilight Inscription over Hadrian's Wall, just the better and more interesting game overall. The only downside is probably the game length. Hadrian's Wall is the shorter game.

Looking forward to Mike's solo review of this one. 🙂

The first game to do exactly this was Roll Through The Ages. That was quite some time ago, and actually some of Matt Leacock’s best work in my opinion.

Someone 👀 has made an expansion/campaign for this in the variant section of bgg. It addresses many of the criticisms putlined here

🤣 that "or don't!" at the end

Love the review! And the Third Eye Comics T-shirt!

Could you paint the symbols on the black die so the color/icon confusion is less?

@diversonArchitect

Жыл бұрын

That was my thought on hearing that issue. Kinda weird they didn’t come that way.

I didn’t quite understand the whole thing about the game getting slower with more players….until I played a 6-player game this evening. I realized that the AP person would shift from round to round, so it wasn’t a matter of just having a single person who always has AP but that almost every strategy round *someone* would have AP. With fewer players, you’re more likely to have a round with no one having AP.

Love the varied opinions on this. Well done.

Debating adding this on my next game order (I'm finally getting Teotihuacan+exp). I'm coming from the other side: I've never played TI, but I've seen it, love the look and idea of it and always been interested in it in theory, though I am generally not a 4X gamer. I think this looks really good and is an option to get my feet wet and provides a strong optional solo experience. It's pricey though, and my backlog of games is getting a little long, and it sounds like waiting for a "fixer" expansion might be wise. Flipped a coin (the silver coin from Flamecraft actually) and the coin said "buy it"...we will see. I loved the contrasting opinions in this review though! Fun to see Roy and Chris on the same team.

Those ratings were pretty interesting. I can see each ones arguments and I actually like that. If they come with a mage knight roll and write game I would definitely feel like Roy, but other people would also like the idea of playing an epic game in a smaller format. So thats understandable!

Very interesting review... Interestingly, I think the people I play with (who didn't like TI4) would actually probably like this, but the fear of AP with them somewhat scares me away from getting it for them. Personally, I like TI4 and roll & writes both, so I have no idea how to feel about this one. I'd love to try it, but I dont think I have anyone to play with where the game would fit the group right. I am curious, what type of solo play is it? Is it just just a try to get a high score thing, randomized scenarios, vs AI, or something else?

I love the honest opinions from different viewpoints and angles. Every game is not for everyone and you guys did a great job of giving your views and the reasons behind them. You were clear on what you liked and what you didn't like and why. Thank you again!

Did the white markers work?

I contend that Hadrian's Wall is not complicated. It's a combo explosion which is a total blast. I think it looks far more complicated than it actually is. I'd actually say Dinosaur Island Rawr and Write is more complicated than Hadrian's Wall.

@flanbeau

Жыл бұрын

We played 2 games of hadrian's wall and didnt intend to return because we felt the games were the same once you've found the right path. I heard it's different in solo because there are missions which force you to use the sub optimal options, but in 2v2 it was very directive, there wasnt real choices.

I've played this solo a couple of times, and I like it. Gonna be interesting to play it multiplayer. I haven't played TI (yet, would love to), so I can' comment on that really, but smaller versions sometimes don't give the same feeling. Compare Nations and Nations the Dice game for example. They look similar, but the dice version doesn't feel like it's bigger cousin at all.

13:10 I felt this way and stopped in the middle of the game to re-color the black dice's white faces to metallic pink/green/blue with my POSCA markers. Will post images on BGG soon.

I really like Twilight Imperium and I have never played a roll and write before this game. I played Twilight Inscription and I really like it. I’m not disappointed in the lack of Twilight Imperium feel in the game I think it has plenty theme and flavor in it for being a different genre of game. I feel like I am still in the Twilight Imperium universe playing this game and it makes me want to try more roll and writes now. I am looking forward to playing this with more people. I feel if you like Twilight Imperium and you get the chance to play Twilight Inscription you should at least give it a try. Figure out for yourself by playing it before you decide.

Thanks for the review DT. I ran the demos at Gencon22 for this; Overall, folks either fell into Toms boat with lots of options and things to do for a R&W, or Roy's with "This isnt TI... im out". Overall, I found this a fun game and also gave it an 8 with the same issues of voting. You can houserule the votes and do a 2/1VP at the end of the game to make it interesting.

So far I've only played it 2-player with my brother. When playing just the two of us, we're both prone to AP as we're looking for the *best* move every move. With lots of interruptions, it took us ~4.5 hours. That said, I think without interruptions, it would have been ~2.5 hours. TI is my absolute favorite board game (3D printed a trophy that we 3D print name\empire\date plaques for when we play) and I love roll and writes. I really enjoyed this one. My brother enjoyed it, but is worried about replayability as he basically got to max out just about everything in that one play. I don't think that's usual, but he got really lucky with his first artifact synergizing amazingly with the state of his boards at the time. I'm a little concerned with the warfare rules for single player, but haven't tried that yet. Looking forward to getting this back to the table, as it felt like TI in roll and write form for me. That also means that it should make it to the table more often as well, as TI just takes too long, whereas this is the same feel in a quarter of the time (or less).

Much agreement about the voting in this game. Those voting cards were hugely disappointing. I also hope that expansion cards will come along to remedy that.

11:50 Chris. I see you, man.

As someone who really doesn't like TI because of the playtime... (but does like the theme and roll and writes) I'm pretty excited to try this one out.

Great job!! But zee's the roll and write expert! Gonna have to peel him outta nirvana, or riverside and put him in space!

Immediately loved that Roy was there, really appreciate his opinion and he does seem to have more of an affinity with 4x and big games like TIm

Please do a review of Parcheesi.

I never thought Hadrians Wall was overly complex. I always thought it was That's Pretty Clever on Steroids. You get resources to unlock things that unlock other things which unlock other things etc etc. This one's comparable to that. I'm actually enjoying this one a bit more than Hadrians Wall mostly due to the different Factions that offer different focuses. There could have been more objectives and other things added to it. My only issue is that the first several rounds can be quite predictable. The FIrst round you either get 3 red or 2 blue resources. In the second round, you will get one of each. Following that is the uncertainty of when a council or War Event will be drawn so it's more of a guessing game on how you would want to approach your active sheets.

"i got to try it with white marker" (YES, Tom likes it) 😁

Will I enjoy it althought I have not played any TI?

@grzegorzowczarek3016

Жыл бұрын

YES TI is just a coat of paint in that case. It could be set in any generic sci-fi universe. Its nice to see all crew together again if you know TI universe.

Exactly what interactions are there between players? Voting and warfare, anything else?

@thomascocks9136

7 ай бұрын

Thats it. Someone 👀 has made an expansion/campaign for this in the variant section of bgg that allows you to trade, move arpund a space map and war with all other players, and introduces a king of the hill style mechanic for control of mecatol rex

I have Twilight Imperium, but have never had a chance to play it. Based on this review I am going to buy Twilight Inscription ... and it *will* get to the table. Excelsior!

When I put this in front of me, the first thing I thought of was that this feels like a game made for people who play Bingo professionally. 😀

People should not be expecting the full 4X TI in this. It doesn't require vacation time to complete, and is a roll and write game. There is no way to fit that huge experience in this box and make it accessible. If anything, I would make this a possible lure to get friends interested in Imperium proper.

I haven't played this game but I definitely see the 4X aspect in the 4 boards. Not saying it's a good game but the 4X is definitely there based on the overview.

So what you're saying is if you already don't like roll and writes, this won't change your mind, and if you do, check it out.

Having never played Twilight Imperium OR roll and writes, I just bought this game and I did very poorly but I had fun. I like the game and bought it to play solo, up to 3 people in my group. The replayability is off the chain!

@ianoble

Жыл бұрын

It's hard to not have played a roll and write at this point. They're everywhere!

@johnblue2270

Жыл бұрын

Yahtzee is a roll and write. You have never played Yahtzee?

I get the feeling this game is more for people intimidated by TI who'd like to play a smaller/faster version of it, rather than fans and players of TI.

Mike said his only play of Twilight Imperium 4 was on a live stream. Is that live stream available online anywhere?

@michaeldilisio557

Жыл бұрын

Apologies. I misspoke on that. We played the game, then did a first impressions video on it. Here’s that link: kzread.info/dash/bejne/aJeEyLuAmpbfpsY.html

@Sajatzsiraf

Жыл бұрын

@@michaeldilisio557 I thought there was kind of like a 'highlights' video of this play, with some after-action comments from each of you playing in that game.

This the most I've seen Roy so animated.

Maybe the review doesnt bring it through but I can't see where the warfare strategy is in here. TI to me is not about combat solely but maneouvering and positioning of fleets. Ok, you see your neighbour building up a fleet, you count his strength and decide, "oh I can beat that" and start building or "Oh, I can never beat that anyway, don't even bother". It's that it or is there more to it?

@Bleuchz

Жыл бұрын

It's a roll and write so keep that context in mind (if you dislike abstraction none of the nuance matters): There are spaces that give bonuses/points so even if you'd lose there's a reason to get them. Space is limited and some nodes are blocked so there is positional considerations. You can deploy across fields: from right to left and build up into the next battle. In the games I've played I've been able to pivot and prepare for the next battle if I'm losing the current one. Lastly, some factions interact with war in different ways.

@FalkFlak

Жыл бұрын

Ok the deployment across combat fields sounds actually pretty good. Besides that I don't think "R&W" is a good excuse to NOT make a game thematic when you put Twilight XY on the box. I played so many R&W that are very thematic (RttA and Fleet my favourites) that I know it can be done to make TI a R&W. Even the Dice Tower mentioned it seems a bit lackluster and a disappointment to some extent.

love roy's hate of roll and write come off here haha

you called it ten years ago in the Elder Sign review

That sounds like a philosophical razor: "As the player count increases in an synchronous play game, the chance for play to be synchronous play decreases." Chris Yi

@JamesOrr1987

Жыл бұрын

Chris is right. Basically play slows to the common denominator. You can only drive as fast in your lane as the person in front of you. The slowest person sets the speed. I always hate that lol.

@JonnyLuscious

Жыл бұрын

@@JamesOrr1987 it's still typically better than having to wait for all of those turns individually though ;p

I think we can safely assume there will not be a Last Light Roll & Write game.

Things I disliked: voting and saved assets. I think all assets should be used instantly. It would ease gameplay, and you won't forget to use those saved assets.

We need a DiLisio solo review!

This is a roll and write game in the TI universe. I think some of Tom’s friends had unrealistic expectations. Perhaps they haven’t played enough roll and writes. This game does have theme, and it has combos. Of course you roll dice and write things down and cross things off. That’s the genre. It isn’t trying to be like a slim down version of the board game. It’s very cool for what it is :)

I live the TI universe but I feel the spin off boardgame series should be more casual to attract more peolle

It's time for a top 10 roll and write soon (I hope).

It feels less 4x because you're not around a huge game with 8 people. :)

A for Asymmetrical! It makes more sense

This game is a lot easier to get to the table than TI, don't get me wrong I like playing TI, but with TI you need to set aside a whole day to play it. Not this game maybe just about two hours and it still a lot of fun for me.

I'm curious about this game, but I'm not likely to ever play it. I have no interest in twilight imperium, but I like the idea of heavier, longer roll n writes.

This is almost a perfect reflection of my group's play through TInscription, with me taking Mike's PoV.

Meanwhile, a few months later I finally got to try to play this... and I found some of the agenda votes *brutal*, so that's a weird difference. It may have simply been my strategy.

@thomascocks9136

7 ай бұрын

Sometimes they are super impactful, other times not. Depends on your sheets at the time.

Lol. Tell me a roll and write that 'feels' thematic. I'll wait.

Just for the sake of argument, I'll point out that your collective critique about agendas not mattering also applies in proper TI. I've played many TI sessions now, and in each one at least 50% of the agendas that pop up have no relevance to any player in the game.

I'm going with Roy this game will not be going in my collection this is a big miss for me

this game looks awesome

Interesting that Tom specifically said that as an example for voting "the player who casts the most votes gets 3 points". My game last night I won by 4 points and those points could specifically be attributed to me having the most voting power and costing my opponent 4 points by eliminating the star assets for War Suns. I agree they could be splashier but they are definitely not nothing. Edit: I actually just played a solo game and noticed that the rate of return on the "Councilor" spaces (which is where votes come from) is very high. 3, 4 and 6 for every three you collect. Doesn't solve the issue of the voting event being underwhelming but from a pure points standpoint they are lucrative.

@thedicetower

Жыл бұрын

I guess I would argue that the COST of getting those votes could have netted you way more than 4 points in other areas. Getting a "vote" isn't nearly as good as anything else, and it should be.

@Bleuchz

Жыл бұрын

@@thedicetower I think that's fair and the power of the votes can change depending on your faction. I am in agreement that they should feel splashier but they're not nothing . Hopefully this game does well enough to get the traditional FFG "make every deck bigger" expansion.

I'm fairly neutral on roll and writes, but I do personally disagree with Roy's characterization of just "marking things off", since that's ultimately more of a matter of components (which it's valid to not like). It's just that pushing a plastic figure into a space or placing a tile on a player-board isn't *inherently* more thematic than drawing a line or checking a box. At the end of the day it's still about how the interactive components are reflected in the game's mechanisms. In Dune Imperium for instance, Roy is all for using miniatures to represent the war mechanism on the board. Whereas MANY people feel that it adds unnecessary fiddliness and clutter to the board when cubes were a more clean/elegant solution. Though not advisable for the genre you could literally emulate the entirety of a dudes-on-a-map style game with a dry-erase board. Drawing and erasing marks and numbers onto a board to represent the movement of troops, and checking off boxes for upgrades. At the end of the day it's just components. And Roy is definitely a component guy. That being said. Roy's opinion was valuable not necessarily as a review, but as represenation of someone who has a bias against these types of games. It was informative to know that the game did not overcome those biases via theme or mechanics. So it's not really useful if you have a preference for these games or expectations aligned with what the game is. It is useful if you were maybe considering this as someone interested because of the theme, but is patently not interested in roll and writes to any degree.

@flanbeau

Жыл бұрын

>That being said. Roy's opinion was valuable not necessarily as a review, but as represenation of someone who has a bias against these types of games. It was informative to know that the game did not overcome those biases via theme or mechanics. Would it add value to have in every review someone who has a gognitive bias against a superficial element of the game?

Roy is my spirit animal.

One aspect you guys didn't cover, and it is probably not really a thing, is using this as a step towards TI4 for people.

@DTChrisYi

Жыл бұрын

Good point. I'd say no, it's really such a different game just themed in the TI4 world. I don't think the people who liked it more than me would say so either

@trooper6762

Жыл бұрын

@@DTChrisYi That's what I was thinking too

I miss the ability to interact with other players in this one : (

@Phildiculous

Жыл бұрын

I don't because you interact with player's a lot?

Team Roy And Chris.

The most impressive thing about this is that orange dry-erase marker.

So let me get this straight, the guy complaining for most of the review (Roy I think) hates the feeling of crossing boxes... In a roll and white game... Mmmkay. Edit: The guy on the right said the exact same thing at the end of the video. THANK YOU.

29:58 Roy just can't contain his dislike for roll and writes haha.

I'm with Roy

I know he respects everyone's opinion for their rating, but Roy's face gestures were the most hilarious parts of the video. That's the reason I wanted to see the video, more of reactions rather than the how to play. Enjoyed the video!

People rolling dice and hoping to roll high numbers so they can beat up other people is not “theme”. It’s people rolling dice and hoping to roll high numbers so they can beat up other people. Hot Take concludes.

@Bleuchz

Жыл бұрын

You'll be happy to learn there are no numbers on these dice.

@lastburning

Жыл бұрын

I don't get your point. Rolling dice is a mechanism. Not theme. Yeah, we know?

@chuckm1961

Жыл бұрын

@@lastburning certain members of the dice Tower, who highly disapproved of this game, seem to be very fond of games that involve moving plastic monsters around on the board, while rolling dice to see if they beat each other up. My comment was alluding to that. My comment is not directed towards this game, in other words.

Lol. Roy does not approve.

Basically if you like roll and writes then check it out.

This was a good engine building game to me the roll and write part is not great in the physical writing. This should have been a board game with the TI theme. I love TI4 and like this but give me token and tetris pieces for war would make this so much better. I want more TI themed games.

Wish one of the four reviewing it was someone who never played TI. Would have enjoyed that point of view

Thank you Roy, I will avoid this. This looks like a solitaire puzzle with a pasted on theme. The player interaction looks almost non-existent and boring.

It would have been interesting to hear from someone who has never played TI4

Roll and writes are inherently low player interaction.

Mad how this channel has had 2010 production value non stop, no improvements. Love it. But always feels like I’m watching an old video.

I will prob never play T.I. but since this is infinitely more accessible, even as a solo gamer, I will give it a shot. To be fair, since Roy does not like roll and writes his opinion is irrelevant here.

@DTChrisYi

Жыл бұрын

Irrelevant "for me" is different than irrelevant generally speaking. There's plenty of people who don't like roll and write games either.

@AlwayzFresh

Жыл бұрын

@@DTChrisYi And I would find all of their review irrelevant as well. I dislike country music, and my review of the top ten current country songs is worthless, as would anyone's who dislikes country. It just would not bring anything of value to the conversation.

@DTChrisYi

Жыл бұрын

@@AlwayzFresh That's not my point. His opinion is worthwhile for people who are not roll and write fans but were curious because they like Twilight Imperium like Roy does.

@AlwayzFresh

Жыл бұрын

@@DTChrisYi Got ya, sorry for the ramble.

Will pass on this game, but someone need a haircut for sure...

@DTChrisYi

Жыл бұрын

I agree, Mike's hair is getting out of control.

Bringing a TI4 fan (average game) who doesn't like roll and writes, ouch saw that coming! Enjoyed it myself for a roll and write and yeah I don't know why people were thinking this was going to be a true 4x game. I'm more closer to Tom's wheelhouse, but 8 is in solo mode, 7 otherwise, and Hadrians is barely a 6. Mike hit it on the head with his great digs. And yeah the voting sucks!

I don't get the point of the game taking longer with more people. It's always the slowest person that takes the longest and that could be the same guy in a 2 player or an 8 player game. Sure you could say that different players can be the slowest each turn and therefore the likelihood of longer turns increase with higher player counts, but that has not been my experience actually playing this game with 8.