Thanks for the show and thank you for fighting for reason and free thought!

A lot of these comments are from over 6 years ago. However this podcast is still impacting people today, whenever today is. For me today is January 2020. I began thinking and wanting to know the truth that eventually led me out of evangelical christianity. And no I will not capitalize christianity or god ever again. Reason and logic helped me to see that I was living in a delusion. I just ordered Peter’s book so I can help others to stop believing in faith and to start using reason. Thank you Seth for all you do! I don’t like labels but I do have a very atheistic mentality, and I love my life free from the chains of religion.

The catholic church made me a non-believer and that was long ago when I was in my late teens. Now 75 and loving life and NO guilt.

The best manual for creating atheists that I have ever encountered, was written and assembled many years ago. This manual is the Bible.

@raj-cr4nl

9 жыл бұрын

Dogma Disputant I started reading the Quran and I just don't freaking get it.

@DogmaDisputant

8 жыл бұрын

Adam Jones If you like magic, talking animals and flying horses, then I would suggest that you read Alice in Wonderland instead. It's a far better book and the talking animals have much more character then the ones in the Bible or Quran. If you want to read something a bit more realistic than the Bible or Quran, give Harry Potter a read.

@epicdman8139

7 жыл бұрын

Dogma Disputant™ 38:15

I'm ordering this book on Amazon.

I hadn't bought Dr.Boghossian's book... but I will be, after this. Great stuff, Seth ; thank you for your work. Oh, and thanks to you too, doctor!

Great interview. I'm reading Boghossian's book now.

Thanks Seth, I love Peter! I'm totally depressed that I missed the live version.

Definitely on of your most EPIC podcasts so far!

Seth your book reached me and clarified my thinking ... no pecking order ... I want this guy’s book now, too. The path starts and winds around ...

love your pod casts.... keep up the good work!!

when i click the name that someone replied to it just opens the video in a new tab and it doesn`t show up any way .....

Just purchased the book on Amazon. It'll be here on Monday!

When I read "A Manual For Creating Atheists" I immediately thought of the Bible.

@robertfetrow4612

2 жыл бұрын

Oddly the Bible survives under that thought process. Imagine a world ran by atheists? Yep, painful isn’t it.

@guitargod66

Жыл бұрын

@@robertfetrow4612 imagine a world where there are laws agains eating shellfish and wearing clothing with mixed fabrics

@robertfetrow4612

Жыл бұрын

@@guitargod66 You know whats funnier than your short sighted comment, the fact that we are moving toward that under the guise of global climate change. How long before they regulate the temp in your house or vehicle usage. Mind you, this is coming from the enlighted crowd not us evangelicals. Its funny watching you smart folks run up massive debts, continue to destroy the constitution and individual rights and push for the admin state. But hey, forbidding eating of shellfish during a time where quality of food transportation, refrigeration and other modern means were not available during that time. I guess you missed the passages where Old Testament law was put aside from the new law once Jesus Christ sacrificed his life for you and me. You so cutely ignored or are ignorant of those facts. But hey, you do you and you run up some crazy debts in order to save the admin state and give people student debt forgiveness. You guys are truly killing it.

This is a ridiculous statement. When did religion get the monopoly on the processing of ideas? If you've had discussions with a theist who previously took everything on faith, and you help that person develop the skills and courage for critical thought, you haven't indoctrinated him, you haven't brainwashed him, you haven't preached at him, and you haven't been "religious" in regard to him. You blew fresh air through the cobwebs and helped someone take his own steps to rationality.

i really love the atheist community for we are people of rationality and i really admire how we hold a conversation without degrading the other.

just ordered Boghossian's book. Can't wait to read this. I realize my "approach" to theists could use some much needed fine tuning.

Great episode. Thank you Seth.

oh come on D; i have little time to read and you keep adding more great books to my to-read-list thx for another great title ^^

"the four horsemen" Best play on words ever, makes me wanna grab a copy of his book, alas it´s out of my reach.

Just ordered the book on kindle before finishing the podcast :)

may i know how can proof be subjective?just asking since we may not be on the same page here.

Great show, Seth.

It's such a good read. There are a lot of good techniques and information in there, and he has a nice sample of anecdotes to show his style in action. Just remember that it's not about attacking someone for their faith, it's about getting them to question it. And the best results come from them realizing that it's silly on their own. No one wants to be told what to think, even by a god.

The most informative podcast. Almost five years ago. The book is about so much more than religion. Good tool to have for advancing critical thinking for humanity.

A great opening story.

Gotta have this book

Fantastic podcast!

Great show, Seth. Even in the godless northwest I have nobody in my life to talk about stuff like this so it's nice to have a very rational and compassionate person discussing these issues to listen to. I also have a question. Each religion has a name for a building or grouping of people, such as church, synagogue, mosque. When any of those are mentioned you know specifically what kind of community those are referring to. Do you think the atheist community should come up with a specific name for a gathering or formal building? (I've been partial to the word Sietch, originating from the novel Dune, as a label for a grouping of atheists or a formal building that houses the interests of atheists.) Or is this a dangerous idea because it risks institutionalizing a specific brand of atheism? Thanks again for all of your work!

@drawnsteelhero3269

9 жыл бұрын

I don't know if it's necessarily a *dangerous* idea, but it's certainly a *misleading* one, as it gives the impression that we're a collection of people with a framework of beliefs, when in reality, the only thing that unites us for certain is a *lack* of belief in one specific area.

@jewellevy

2 жыл бұрын

Meh. Labels are always distorted or co-opted. No need to encourage that.

I feel like being in a religious group is a lot like being in a fan club for some band. You really enjoy being in a group and prop up each other's admiration for the band. You find yourself overlooking things like band members being alcoholic, or not liking some songs so that you can stay in the group. But tastes change, the "cool kids" move on to something else, and you find yourself drifting away from the fandom. When people stay with the same church or accept the same interpretation their whole lives, it means there are big social pressures on them, or they are benefiting socially or financially from the status quo.

Could you give an example of what you mean by that? On what issue do you accept subjective proof, and what are those proofs? I'm just curious.

I thought I heard of this guy. Maybe I've seen him around. I was an student at PSU at the time of this broadcast!

Sounds interesting ... I need to learn.

I've very recently (this past Monday) used Dr. Boghossian's methods. Anyways, an older couple of JW's came to my door and I thought I would engage them. Kept on bringing the conversation back to 'faith' over the 30 minutes. 3 of the 4 people became more and more visibly angry, the 4th had a genuine look of introspective questioning going on while we're engaging back and forth. I don't know if I did anything but something happened which is more than what I can say happens most of the time.

I bought the book immediately. :)

I have read the book. It is excellent.

Another few ways I would suggest to get someone to examine their belief system is to listen/view The Thinking Atheist podcasts and videos, and also Aron Ra's channel... Along with a few others, Paulogia, Viced Rhino, Thunderfoot and skeptics like Logicked and The Armoured Skeptic.

It was an EF5.

Just watching real koalas waddling around in the PBS documentary gives you some idea how ludicrous it is to think that a breeding pair of koalas somehow wandered thousands of miles across Asia -- then swam in the Pacific -- to get to Australia. You know, WITHOUT BEING EATEN ALONG THE WAY. Especially when you consider that the tigers and the koalas would have had to share a good portion of the journey together, and that the Pacific Ocean off Australia is teeming with sharks.

Faith CAN be a bad thing, especially when faith (emotional attachment to belief without evidence or in the face of evidence to the contrary) is lauded over critical thinking. This is what's happening in the US and it's thwarting scientific progress and education. Denying evidence in deference to faith is NOT good. End-times, apocolyptic thinking is destructive.

On Amazon, "a manual for creating atheists" is the #1 best seller in both Atheism and Christian Philosophy catagories. Intresting.

The conversation at the beginning with the teacher and father reminded me of the comedy skit with Abbot & Costello: "Who's on first?". ;D

That's pretty ingenious and it's also admirable that you took the time to make it. Do you often have discussions with believers? Also, would you be willing to share you work? I would be curious to take a look at it

Something we need today is not just a manual for freeing people from irrational beliefs but also a way of freeing Humanity from the tyranny of the dangerous psychopathic leaders who are responsible for the misery in human history from way back before writing.

Yo Seth, its your first caller from last night. Sorry about the choppy Skype call, but thanks for the answer to my question. I really am not afraid to engage the believer in conversation even if I do not change their minds. Afterall, this is the Bahamas where Christianity is taught from kindergarten, evolution is ignored and the population is at least 95% Christian.

About being a grown up person and still believing in an imaginary authority. I think many of you have a trade learned in school. While you learned it, you were granting the books and the teachers with all your trust (semesters were too short for long debates). Later you got a job based on that knowledge and had a chance to verify the knowledge "in the field" and, less and less, you revisit the notebooks. Years pass and you became more confident in your trade, to the point of... faith. And that's when people tend to say "because I said so" instead of "I don't have time/patience to explain this to you, but take my word for it and do it like I say". Another issue is that people have this peculiar need for a higher authority to refer to, which oversees their actions. Even thieves have it. And the other peculiar thing is that psychopaths and sociopaths don't need a higher authority because they ARE that authority, in their mind. Now what distinguishes an insane religious believer from a sane person? The authority that each of them refer to: instead of an imaginary, arbitrary, random thinking friend, better to trust the body of knowledge and experience in the real world. For example: did my prayer helped? NO, the actual help... helped.

yeah i thought the title was quite deceiving but im pretty sure they do not mean it that way from what theyre talking about.

Actually faith is defined as "Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence" From and actual dictionary. That definition is used when people are asking for faith in another person's ability to do a task, like putting faith in a soldier escorting you to safety

My definition of faith is simply an action based upon a belief. It is the carrying out of an experiment based upon a hypothesis.

0:58:00 Seth, you nailed it! That, for me, is the main line of reasoning out of religions. An entity with all the attributions assigned to the concept of God, should be notoriously, evidently, supernova shine distinguishable from all man-made ones. We inadvertently talk about (or oppose to) "theism", as if it were a consortium or have any consensus in that term, when in fact is a group of almost-atheists with narrow views of absolute certitude, each one equivocating "god" with their god flavour.

Problem I see with ANY challenging of other's beliefs is that as soon as it registers with most people that you feel they're wrong in their conclusions about something, the defensive shields slam down and they dig their heels in to try and hold their position. Part of that defense mechanism consists of feeling (and therefore genuinely acting) offended at the suggestion that you might feel as though you doubt their ability to sort sense from nonsense (which, in a way, you do - however, that is not the real focus of what you are trying to communicate). It's a genuine problem, and I (for one) haven't yet quite figured out an effective work-around

@williammorrison6311

10 жыл бұрын

Those who are intellectually ready and able to question their religion will respond to facts, logic, scientific and historical reality, or moral principles. For me, Boghossian´s techniques seem superflous, and not very effective for those who are just too stupid, delusional, or invested in their beliefs. A direct confrontation of them works just fine for those who are ready.

For an example and comparison of the 2 definitions of Faith Go here amzn(DOT)to/HzmG5a > replace the (DOT) with a .

Assumptions evidence themselves in the questions asked. How does one know the tenders of the ark did not provide the koala with eucalyptus leaves?

You should have shown us the photo.

It seems you haven't payed attention to his arguments and how got to that description of faith.

I think the best method would be the most non-aggressive, non-violent approach, combined with supportive evidence.

overmodulation I love your show

This is what I like about non religious views, they are not limited to defined views, I think if that is how you identify, then that's fine, any philosophical view is fine, if you can provide a reasonable, logical, justification for it. Besides are labels important or content?

You omitted the "without evidence" part.

its not really "proselytizing",but offer rational thinking for those who have faith.

Holy crap! i go to portland state university! i have to find this man!

@steveb0503

10 жыл бұрын

So, being that it's roughly six months later now, I have to ask: have you?

@McStroke23

10 жыл бұрын

no... i haven't even looked...

@steveb0503

10 жыл бұрын

Nikola Vukovic Tsk, tsk, tsk... How in the hell do you ever expect to accomplish anything with that attitude?

@steveb0503

8 жыл бұрын

Truth Matters Boy, FEEL the Christian love...

@steveb0503

8 жыл бұрын

Truth Matters Yeah, I'm just trying to point out how so many of you think the WORST things about those who don't share your beliefs (up to and including thinking we actually deserve to be tortured FOREVER) - and yet go on and on about how yours is a gospel love. It literally makes no sense. We don't think such awful stuff about people like you - we ONLY think you're wrong.

A lot of the people in my life are spiritual people that have a belief system which is a mash-up of Christianity, Buddhism and New-Agey concepts. I don't even know how to tackle a discussion with them and challenge their beliefs when they don't even know what they believe in, only that they believe in something. When I speak about reincarnation, they switch to Jesus and so on. It's extremely exhausting. Is there a crash course somewhere about popular religious beliefs and how to refute them?

Yes, the title is misleading, I assume the publisher wanted a title that would attract good PR. > The books original title is "Street Epistemology" ..... > "The core of the intervention is NOT about changing beliefs. Its about changing the WAY that people form beliefs" hence the term epistemology !! >

I'll buy this and use it to talk people out of fucking chiropractic.

... And THIS in a nutshell is how American parents choose to educate their children ... they don't want teachers to discuss certain things with their children ... but they don't feel at ease discussing these same things (sex, religion, race relations etc.) with the kids themselves ... Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise ~ Thomas Gray

@22 minutes. Took me almost 5 years to come out of the closet out of fear. :/

Recently I listened to an interview Dr Boghossian did with Stefan Molyneux. Are you ever gonna have Stefan Molyneux on your podcast?

@TheThinkingAtheist

10 жыл бұрын

We're doing something in the next few weeks.

Talking about reason. A couple of days ago I decided, from now own I will address supposed God only as "She", because male only parthenogenesis makes no sense, so it can't be "He". Male deity makes sense only in polytheism. I know this is a bit twisted, yet still reasonable (the other reason being being - I've never seen Jesus in my dreams, but I've seen goddess Venus, you know... I was a teenager and... nevermind).

I was more referencing the end of your comment, where you seemed to be suggesting that religion's impact upon your life was minor if not non-existent.

Ridiculous to be proud to be an atheist? Well, I don't entirely agree with Dr. Boghossian on that. Depends on your background and the level of "achievement" in your de-conversion. If one is thoroughly immersed in religion and they reason and struggle their way out of their mind-forged delusions, that's a life changing achievement and they should be proud. On the other hand, if one grew up non-religiously and never believed in the supernatural, then they didn't do anything to get to their atheistic position so not much to be proud of there. But they can still be proud in other ways - their learning, rationality, morality, etc.

@aubreywilliam9048

6 жыл бұрын

Kuratla let people be proud about shit

When I am in a discussion/debate with a religious person and they begin to insult me, I know it is time to shut the discussion down and walk away...

I have just ordered this book and I am looking forward to reading it. I see it as being the single most influence for eradicating global assholic behaviour more than any other book. Why? Because I have concluded the Bible has turned more people into assholes than any other book in history.

When the father's religion got bogged down by the koala's journey from the Ark to Australia, and the guy had to call his pastor to ask him how to handle the problem of eucalyptus leaves -- HILARIOUS. There's a PBS Nature documentary about koalas you should watch, and then think about the poor koala's horrific journey from the Ark all the way home ...

I would argue that even if Christianity is true it does not justify the way Christians act. I think that religion isn't actually about gods or holy books, but about the modern organization and community surrounding these things. I don't worship my parents for creating me, I would not worship a god for creating me. Jesus died to save us from sin? Well, whose fault is it that sin exists in the first place? By simply existing I've done nothing to deserve such harsh judgement. Plus, Jesus didn't really die or think he was going to die - he knew he was going to a better place (heaven) which is a huge advantage and also means that he did not sacrifice himself (going to heaven isn't a sacrifice, its a bonus). Also, who wouldn't do what Jesus did if they were in his place? Not only would I go to heaven to save humanity, I would actually die to save them as well. Christianity also just kinda said "you have sin and the only cure is more jesus" which is rather convenient. Almost like they made up an illness and a cure.

My problem is that I lose patience with believers after a certain point. I can be very calm and ask uncomfortable questions that make them think, but sometimes I get so exasperated with the sheer stupidity of some answers that people who are smart in all other areas of their life give, that I basically give them a look of disbelief and make some sort of noise or statement that lets them know I think they're being a moron. I think at that point I'm being counterproductive. When should one stop?

Get Stefan Molyneux on the Thinking Atheist!

What Peter Boghossian seems to overlook is that there are people, especially religious people, who are just too fucking stupid or uncurious, irredeemably illogical or irrational, unable or afraid to ask questions, intellectually dishonest, or overinvested in their faith or religion or whatever to ever listen to reason or give up their silly beliefs--people like my brother, who is just contemptuous of people like me who fail to believe in his God. He refuses to discuss it (in my family, it´s considered impolite to question God or religion, but acceptable to profess faith), and he sees me, an agnostic, as a danger to his children since I might respond honestly should the topic of religion come up. He´s not at all untypical. Not at all convinced by Peter Boghossian. Love Seth Andrews´ show and his approach.

@GetMeThere1

9 жыл бұрын

Right. Sometimes I come away from those discussions with the overwhelming conviction that the person is not only incapable of analysis, but is even unaware that analysis could be a useful approach in life.

I left my belief soon after my brother died. He and I both were horrifically abused at home physically, mentally, emotionally our entire lives, then add to it IFB torture by our psychotic mother. He was the kindest, loving person and ‘walked the isle for Jesus’ as a teen. But because he loved blues music and didn’t go to church every Sunday- he was going to burn in hell every second for eternity-while his abusers basked in the glory of heaven for eternity. No, I can’t believe that.

@fredo3161

Жыл бұрын

Did your brother renounce his faith before death?

1 complete trust or confidence in someone or something : this restores one's faith in politicians. 2 strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. faith in a person is not a bad thing but faith without proof is.

To say that you don't like "creating atheists" is to say that you should not have been talked into atheism from theism. Or that you really dislike the fact that someone "converted" you to atheism.

what i meant at the end is that the idea or premise of god would make more sense if there was one solar system. The premise of god makes some sense in a way but the human premise of god makes no sense at all.

I have a routine when posting comments on the internets. When proof-reading, I elide and all occurrences of the word "you" and rewrite as required. I have been doing that since before the world wide web. Works good.

@GSTR1DR

10 жыл бұрын

works "well" sorry..grammar Nazi

My wife, a former catholic, compared that book with a book on how to cteate a terrorist. The irony was lost on her but not me.

With some people they just won't change their minds what you say. If you have friends who are fence sitters it might be worth having the conversation for them if it's a small group discussion. Generally I don't bother having one on one conversations with believers though because you are not likely to get anywhere with them on that subject.

You should read the second definition that came up when you looked up faith. See the part about not having evidence? That's the one we're talking about. Next question.

So? Religion had little to no influence on my childhood. What about it?

I read the entire bible, had problems with it, but it did not make me lose my faith. I was super indoctrinated and in my head god's existence with without question, so at that point it was how do we appease that god or why is what the bible said the moral thing 'in context' of course. I absolutely was that christian that used logical fallacy after fallacy. I will say I was always ok with science and evolution, just thought god used it and was ok with saying "I don't know" but it was more so I don't know why god said this or that. So for me, the bible did not make me an Atheist. Hearing lack of evidence and hearing logical thinking of 'if this were true, then how does THIS make sense?' and the four horsemen and guys like TheThinkingAtheist as well. I also didn't know many Atheists and the ones I did rarely ever talked to me about my faith, just stayed out of it. The only ones that did mocked my faith. I wish they had read this book (I'm reading it currently) and talked to me one on one and was loving instead of staying out of it. Also, yeah, telling my family would mean the last time any of them ever talk to me. My parents cut contact (and wouldn't watch our kid or take wife to Dr appointment (she can't drive due to health issues) because we didn't go to church often enough. This was when I WAS a believer! Yeah, not telling them anytime soon.

sure u can use faith in that sense ....but most often than not it is actually blind faith ...or based on nothing ...conviction based on a presumed conclusions u can't possibly hope to prove and u should be proud of this ....and all religions r like that if they weren't religion would be convergent like science

Evidence is not subjective, how you interpret it can be, but what's proven is proven.

I think you are mixing different kinds of faith. The faith or trust you refer is a faith in people and indeed it can only be faith that you have in someone because people have free will and therefore you cannot predict their actions in the future, only have faith that they will do the right thing. There is however the faith in things, which have no free will and as such you can always know what will happen to them regardless of your belief and this makes having faith in them obsolete.

I’m in the middle of reading this book. It’s not often that a person has enough intelligence to write a book while being so profoundly stupid, but Peter is one of those special few.

This helps me bc all I can do is shut them down ... this is 2021. I need help ... I’ll read it.

The first 10 minutes were pretty funny.

Agnostic deals with knowledge.

Mr. Michael Mackrill, My point is to ask if there is any immediate selectable advantage to being incapacitated. There is not. This could not be the result of natural selection. These and all things, for different reasons, could not have evolved.

Boghossian addresses this in his book. Faith can be used in many different ways. "Faith in your wife" might mean "trust". "Faith things will be ok" might mean "hope" or "wishing". The primary use of "faith" for which there is not a better synonym, however, is "faith that X is true", where faith means "belief without evidence". THIS is what Boghossian means when he says faith is a virus, an unreliable epistemology to be corrected. Don't play literary games with poorly defined terms.

Don't know about a crash course on all religions -- I've read a lot of books on religion in my 52 years, and am fairly well versed in the tenets of many religions, but my reading took decades. Look up "The Skeptic's Annotated Bible/Quran/Book of Mormon" online. The site analyzes these 3 holy books not only by order of the chapters of these books, but also by subject, such as "intolerance," "injustice," "cruelty," etc. Iron Chariots wiki is a good site that examines religious claims.

I have a question is it unconstitutional for my public school to sell t-shirts that say "God's got this" to raise money for a cancer patient that goes to my school. I know I'm not forced to buy the shirt but I really want to support the student without supporting Christianity.

I'd like to think our world is further (in knowledge) than the ancient India sun God, Santanu.

.. the book actually specifically warns against what you claim it promotes. >Per pages 76-77: "Attempting to disabuse people of a belief in their God(s) is the wrong way to conceptualize the problem. God is the conclusion that one arrives at as a result of a faulty reasoning process.... Attempting to disabuse people of a belief in God usually takes the counterproductive model of a debate. This is the wrong strategy..." > >