Seth and JT are two very welcome breaths of fresh air and sanity. Thank you for articulating my feelings so much better than I ever could.

I wonder how the Catholic caller thinks today? He sounds like someone beginning the process of deconversion, especially considering he's listening to the an atheist podcast and answers the questions so honestly and isn't afraid to say he doesn't know. I wonder if he retreated back into religion, or stayed where he was not understanding these bigger questions, or if he made the journey out? He seems like a nice, thoughtful guy either way, but he reminds me of me when I was in the process of leaving.

@AWanderingEye

6 жыл бұрын

Keywy actually I thought at one point JT would get him realizing he was a wishy-washy Catholic as he isn't evangelizing, which is a part of Catholicism. I wonder if for Mark it's more a cultural ethnic thing so rationalism is held at bay. His comments about Church keeping him from doing x, y, z negative behavior then agreeing with Seth that he is a good, moral person who without a God to believe in, would not then revert to x, y, z negative actions. So, yes, I wonder where he is today...has ge found his way out?

@eddieclark9802

2 жыл бұрын

Pretty well written. 😊

The Catholic caller who said he went to church for the community has a VERY DIFFERENT experience than I had as a Catholic growing up in the 60s. During my first two years as an altar boy, the mass was still in Latin! But my main point is that I was taught to believe that church was an OBLIGATION and NOT going destined me to hell. So week after week we sat through the boring sermons, noticed what the fat lady was wearing in the front row, listening to how loud and off key the drunk guy behind us was singing, unconsciously going through all the mind-numbing stand up, sit down, kneel down routine, waiting for the magic words, "Mass is over, go in pe..." The preist didn't even sound the last consonant and the STAMPEDE started for the back door and parking lot, where everyone pushed, shoved and honked for everyone else to get OUT OF THE WAY! And once we got home, the ONLY thing anyone ever said about church was how LONG AND BORING it was! We did this EVERY SINGLE WEEK until I moved out of my parent's home! How freakin' INSANE that was!

@Johnmhatheist

7 ай бұрын

😂

53:20 JT is incredible with articulation. I'm absolutely looking for more of his work. I honestly love this episode. Instantly among my all time favorite episodes. 👍

I liked that christian caller. He was very honest! JT and Seth did a good job aswell!

@QuidamByMoonlight

9 жыл бұрын

Agreed on both counts. I think people who were raised in more liberal religious homes have less incentive to question the things they believe or the routines they adopt. I see this a lot with Catholics that are more liberal. Their practice rarely takes the Vatican or the Bible literally, and it therefore seldom conflicts with science, etc. With more fundamentalist forms of religion, it creates a great amount of cognitive dissonance, and gives people a determination for discovering the truth...which often leads them to the startling realization that there's no man behind the curtain of the universe! All of this reminds us that while lampooning bad ideas is a good idea, we should be nuanced in our view of religion and religious people. It's like saying "drugs." What kind of drugs? What dosage? Etc...a lot can be covered under the umbrella of religion, so there's a lot to tease apart there...

@PearlHandle

2 жыл бұрын

@@QuidamByMoonlight well said

Wow, what a great interview with JT Eberhard! Thank you Seth! I have been binging listening to you all evening, just fantastic!

Seth this young man is refreshing, bright and articulate. Thank you for introducing him to us.

"if your reasoning is good, I'd like to change." hells yeah. way to be a badass

Thanks for introducing JT to me Seth. I really enjoy what he has to say and the arguments he presents. Good show!

I hope JT comes on the podcast again soon. Loved listening to these guys talk.

Thank you Seth & JT, Great Episode, It is so gratifying to listen to two guy's so on my page of the "Book of Reason" Science and Reason; that's were we are at.

That conversation with Mark was a breath of fresh air. It was an honest, calm and rational discussion. Wish most were like this.

Im glad I found this channel , my entire life I felt something was wrong with me for not ever being able to buy into the bible or religion of any sort I even tried other belief systems to try to trick myself into the bullshit I will say one thing I learned in the Christian church that stuck with me is " the kingdom of god is in you " ,call. It logic , reason , what ever, people may think god and faith gets them by yet every day they wake up and set the intention to get through another day even by praying to a god sets your intention you just have to realize your asking yourself to get you through this is where you feeling that god touched your life comes from your simply setting your own goals and subconscious or not fulfill them on your own

Number one, JT is great. Number two, at 1:10:20. Thank you Seth for giving a damn about people.

The caller around the 1:10:00 I think is a believer posing as an athiest. His argument is devoid of rational reasoning & it makes no sense that an athiest would be arguing for & on the behalf of religion. Also , who the hell are "these class of people" that he claims to know so well. The more he speaks the thought that is occurring to me is that if he's actually an athiest he must be a priest or preacher who wants "these people" to remain ignorant so he can keep taking "these people's" money. Regardless of his station, status, or beliefs the 1 thing that holds true throughout is that he's a total D-BAG!!

@christopherwald9960

9 жыл бұрын

That is why I talk to myself. So I will know how stupid I sound before I try to tell someone else.

@ronaldkretzerii9339

9 жыл бұрын

Razhender Wild lol

@Darkenedbyshadows

9 жыл бұрын

Razhender Wild Great minds talk alike..... xDD

@archaictext

8 жыл бұрын

I think it's a bit much to say he is a total "D-bag". He is simply talking about the kind of people who will have a huge problem with losing their faith. Have you not met these kinds of people? The podcast host and JT are very modest people, but the whole " you're not giving enough credit to the public" thought process is not realistic. The host is implying that everyone will make it through the process of losing their faith in God with success. Just as it is not easy for an atheist to believe in theism it is not that easy for all theist to find a comfortable life having lost their faith. It is one of the most difficult processes a person can go through. Where the caller is wrong is when he says that this "class" of people, as he puts it, don't change the world. That is just patently false. All people change the world and have an effect, so I'm glad the host brought that point up. We still need to fight for the greater good of reality and reason, but it is not realistic to dismiss the fact that there are many people out there who have the potential to go mental with the loss of their faith.

@SplotPublishing

8 жыл бұрын

+archaictext I think it's still a valid point. Who decides *for them* whether they can make it without religion? How the flying flip could you know in advance which will and which won't. In point of fact, I have never met a single person who could not make it without religion, though I've met a bunch who refuse to even try.

first of your podcasts I have heard. Almost scared to listen other shows because this was so groovy. thanks for this hour and a half of life well spent

Somewhere around the 20 min. mark is a reference to near-death experiences as some kind of 'proof'. Hitchens rightly pointed out that "NEAR death" is not the same as "death" so the only thing being demonstrated is what happens to consciousness when a person is kept alive thru the use of modern medicine; a person who would have certainly died 100 years ago. I think that is an excellent point.

Hi Seth, I'm a long time listener. This was my favorite thinking atheist episode I have yet heard.

Wonderful podcast! Going to start listening to them more! They're great for listening to while I play my gameboy! :D

JT Eberhard, how could I have missed you? Awesome arguments...

I think that Catholic caller sort of proves that more than anything what the modern world needs is more clubs that it's okay for adults to belong to. He seemed to like having a place to go with people to rely on (God didn't help him through his trouble, I'm sure, it was the people in church that let him lean on them). And I hear very similar arguments from other non-fundamentalist people; church and the people there make them feel good. Not the Bible; most of them have never even read that thing. We make a big deal about kids getting involved and socializing in playdates or in school and after school activities. But then we turn into adults and we have very few options, if any, in most areas. Churches offer a welcoming community even to new people because you know they're always there. No matter where you go you can find a church of almost any denomination and you're good to go. The sense of community in our world has faded for a variety of reasons (sprawl making areas just too big or too dangerous or lives just being too busy) and churches became a final bastion when block parties and book clubs went down the drain. I would love to have a community like that. But without having to be preached to for 1 or 2 hours before getting to chat with the community (and maybe we can meet around noon instead of at 7 AM cuz screw waking up that early to go chat with people. Would love to meet up with people once a week or so and talk about how they've been and offer to babysit the kids if they seem to need a day off or organize a potluck dinner. But there are so few options for that. Maybe more secular countries have secular options for this we don't have in America.

@halfcentaur2171

8 жыл бұрын

+Tara I definitely agree. I think the internet is making it easier as well for people with more diverse interest to get in touch and feel connected to someone despite location, but meeting people in real life will always play a role in this. This is perhaps where the need for "atheist churches" comes in. Really this just calls for centers where people can meet new people and have a nice time, and maybe learn about something, whether it be science philosophy, and just feel like they're part of a community.

@mikean7074

8 жыл бұрын

+Tara NiftyPerhaps instead of a sermon, there could be some update about local community issues and maybe the occasional presentation of whatever and instead of holding hands and praying there could just be a big circle jerk! ...scratch that last one, that's a COMPLETELY different club.

Thank you for introducing me to JT. He's great!

JT is probably my favorite guest I've ever heard on here so far. I've heard all manor of argument and refutation over and over but I feel like I'm getting some new views I don't run into very often and all articulately stated.

Awesome show this week!

I thought that noise was my stomach too. LOL.

Perfect timing, I was just on my way out, gonna download this to my Mp3 player and listen to it, thanks. ^^

My favorite podcast so far Seth. You were awesome and you also proved your humility by allowing JT to dominate the conversation. I'm impressed and that's rare for me.

This is 8 years old but one of the best episodes ever

I have a new favorite Atheist speaker. JT is so great at saying the things that I've always wanted to say and not been able to word it in such a way. Bring him back on as soon as possible!

Thank you Seth & JT...great talk!

"availability of knowledge" as the means for advancement is a nice theory until you realize that misinformation is ramping up just as much leaving you with the same old question "where do you get your information from?" and nothing changes

Mark was awesome. I have hope for the world again. He… Sounded like I used to.

@SIMKINETICS

10 жыл бұрын

Yup, and he'll likely deconvert eventually. That's what reasonable people do.

@Arkloyd

10 жыл бұрын

SIMKINETICS I'll throw him a party if he can get to my house.

@kimweaver3323

9 жыл бұрын

SIMKINETICS Deconvert isn't accurate. He never converted in the first place. He was marinaded in a dilute bowl of Catholic sauce. So when he acknowledges his rational side, he will experience his first conversion.

@Arkloyd

9 жыл бұрын

Oh look, kim weaver has perpetrated the 'No True Scottsman' fallacy. Kim has also made a judgement about someone they have never met, all to make their faith look better. What Kim is doing is dishonest and they ought to be ashamed, but we all know christians do not feel shame about lying to protect their faith. It's the only defense they have.

@SIMKINETICS

9 жыл бұрын

Xyander Hmm. I find ambiguity in kim's comment. Kim needs to clarify what's meant by 'conversion'. +kim weaver ...please clarify!

"Prove your not a murderer" This is so excellent, thank you.

Caller at 1:08, in reference to JT, “I wouldn’t make a final assessment of you”, having just refered to JT as “militant athiest”... uh, you didn’t leave yourself any wiggle room there, sir.

I tried to find something about this on web, and I am not sure it takes away revenue. Can you help me with this?

43:05 and 48:57 Excellent argumentations, very well expressed. My compliments to both!

Thanks for the advice! :)

Great work.

Looking forward to the aging show, Seth. I'm determined to find a care home (when the time comes) where there will be no church choirs sharing the good word, no instrumental hymns played over lunch, no visiting pastors. Scares the hell out of me to think of being infirm or having dementia while surrounded by theists.

Some of us atheists know little about any scripture and possibly many more know a lot. Some are, of course, ex-believers. The latter two groups often feel the god described is more evil than good. How does that happen? Here's my opinion about what we have in common. It's a four word phrase that goes: "reading between the lines." And what we find there is often, to us, hopelessly unacceptable. Let me provide an example: We're told that no matter how well you behave you're bound for hell if you don't believe. On the other hand no matter how evilly you've behaved you can repent, believe and get into heaven. When we read between the lines, we find that the person who's behaved their whole lives with compassion and charity but doesn't believe will burn. But the man who's raped and murdered a dozen children can repent at the last second and get into heaven. As I said, hopelessly unacceptable. That's the issue of who goes to heaven or hell but there are countless other issues about which such examples can be made.

Oh my god, finally, I agree with this guy so much. People get so pissed whenever I try to bring up religion, and always want to end the conversation rather than actually talk about it.

Is that a dog snoring in the background lol

Great show. I like the ones centered around in-depth discussions with guest atheists.

Are you referring JT the guest or someone else that goes by TJ. Thanks

Best Episode in quite a while.

Great job sneaking in the Dune reference with fish speakers

Seth, you have an amazing speaking voice.

Anyone know what the name of the episode where he talks to his ex-boss? Sounds like a really interesting talk.

@TheAlmightyPillock

7 жыл бұрын

PRHILL9696 I thank you in the end, thank you for responding.

@brynpookc1127

5 жыл бұрын

Jacob Gamm Looks like you may have received an answer already, but in case not, the podcast with Seth’s ex-boss is Clash From the Past, kzread.info/dash/bejne/ao1hwZWiZNDRkrg.html

" it fails to take into account other factors, like maybe by stealing I'm denying someone else a chance at life." I specifically brought up that instance where stealing something to save a life at the cost of another life would be immoral. They need to steal something else.

I hear you. Just expressing thoughts.

"Certainly I would steal if it came to it but that doesn't necessarily make the theft moral." It is to anyone with a rational brain that figures out "kids dying is worse than stealing." The simple moral principle behind this is "always oppose suffering." Stealing is perfectly fine in that case, assuming that said theft in itself won't cause anyone's death.

43:40 That's pure honesty. I like this guy.

"Well you lost me at church.." LOL Seth

Yeah, JT is really an awesome dude. Great speaker, big heart.

I love the point linking morality with human happiness. People get so concerned about different people having different standards of happiness. Its actually irrelevant. If you think about morality being like health, in that both are the pursuit of improving overall happiness - it really showcases how irrelevant the particulars are. Medicine doesn't need to cure every disease every time. But the overall pursuit of improved health is incredibly important to our success as a species.

"ilk" is one of those words that actually don't have a negative meaning, but are almost always used negatively.

This guy was very militant in his approach.. even the caller that mentioned that to him he got all defensive and justified himself.. Some ppl just need to believe certain things.. just attacking ppl of faith isn't always a good idea.

"You'll find what you're looking for. Ferguson super store!" Thanks for getting that stuck in my head Seth.

0:24:43-0:26:56 Also, morality revisited. Loved it!

And by the way, the article that links for Atheism says this: Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. {This would include Agnostics-T} In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. {this is the 'Hard Atheist' position-T} Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. {This also includes Agnostics-T}

Also, 0:48:14-0:50:46 I never thought of Morality this way before. Great stuff!

With regard to Eberhard's comment about the murderer/abuser coming to the door while his ex-wife is hiding in the basement (or whatever) and not lying to him, there's something I must say: not lying does not necessarily mean telling the truth; so long as you give the recipient an air of doubt as to what you're saying, then you're still doing the right thing. In fact, by lying, you're just passing the problem onto someone else. It is still not innocuous.

"Let us pray..." ROFLOL, Seth

"I don't really think it is productive to look at these sorts of moments in time to decide what's moral without looking at the whole context." That's ridiculous. It doesn't matter how anyone ends up in a situation like that. If stealing will save a life and not take someone else's life in the process then everything else is moot. Preventing situations like that would be great, but that's a separate issue as to what happens in that situation if it occurs.

This video was uploaded 40 minutes ago, and is 100 minutes long. Yet people are already fighting in the comments. Stay classy KZread.

This could be helpful in the event of a power outage or a crashing browser where someone may not be aware of how long the podcast has been running, but would give them something to look for on the screen.. For example: "Oh I lost power during the Second Caller's question" or similar situations like that?

gib moar of thisss - all kidding aside, this podcast was my all time favorite. you two should do a show again soon.

"I agree that there should be, but there isn't, is there?" During the Age of Enlightenment, there were Deists, Agnostics, Atheists, Pantheists, Polytheists, Atheists, and quite a few others. And it was that way when I was growing up. Then came the 1990s, and the new Atheism movement, with a whole new classification system, that worked to cram everyone into an 'us vs them' 'theist vs atheist' false dichotomy. I adopted it for a while because it sounded reasonable at first. Now I know better.

Am I the only 1 hearing the belly growling throughout the show ? ? I'm listening with headphones, so that may be why I can hear it so well. Throw on some headphones & listen. It's been cracking me up the whole time , LOL!!!!!!

@stephaniecuellar3192

6 жыл бұрын

l heard that too. At first l thought maybe it was one of Seth's pooches.

What is that buzzing sound that comes and goes throughout the show, for the first 30 min i thought it was my stumach :)

Great Seth, a show on the elderly atheist would be awesome. I'm 73, my boyfriend is 65. Most of the folks in our senior citizen's complex senior citizen's complex are dedicated church-goers. Are we weird?

Just because u cant handle criticism doesn't mean all conversations about it should stop. Sure there are different ways on approaching it. But as TJ said, to not treat religious belief ad deserving as more respect and put it on a pedestal and make it taboo. Thats partly like I said why its destructive

most reasonable xtian caller I've ever heard.

The only definition of feminism i found was "advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men." Why don’t you agree with that? The type of feminism I hate though is the from the minority of women that are anti-men and get offended over nothing and act paranoid every time a man looks at them. Thanks for your reply!

I don't get that caller that talked about 'classes'; it's insulting! I'm a 43-year-old single woman, no kids. I'm one of six kids. I grew up very poor. I didn't go a 'different way' when I was questioning things. I WANT the truth. And it did NOT stop me from living to question and move forward if I was wrong on something. And I VOTE! Wow. And to insinuate that I don't contribute to humanity?! Are you saying no great minds ever grew up with nothing? Bite me!

The lack of a belief in not a belief. Not collecting stamps isn't a hobby.

I lolled at pop off joke. :D

Just FYI... since "happiness" can be so disparate from person to person, Sam Harris uses the phrase "maximizing the well being of conscious creatures" in his book "The Moral Landscape" as the way to determine what is moral and what is not.

I agree with you that there are three positions, but the word covers two of them, that's just the way it goes...

Damn! i cant believe i never heard of JT. I could listen to 50 shows of you guys taking calls and shootin the shit. You guys should start the "Free Thought Experience", monthly show, 2 hours long, Thanx so much Seth for the inspiration.

You can still get that hug if you want it. *opens his arms again* You'll feel better. Come on. Give us a cuddle.

We love you too Seth

I feel it also responsible of me to point out a book which would explain how life may arise from abiotic matter, and that book is this: What is Life? by Erwin Schrödinger. It is very useful. I recommend that you read it, Seth. It's less than 100 pages, and within the usual books being sold it has 2 others with it: Mind and Matter, and Autobiographical Sketches.

JT Eberhart's question : "are you a murderer" doesn't further his argument, because it's very plausible that people are murderers. I can't prove it, but I know I am not a murderer. On another topic, I can prove I am not a smurf.

I swear i saw youtube comments another day. Someone wrote literally this: " *Stupid unrelated commentary* ", and other person responded to him with this: " *Generic insulting reply* ".

How do you figure that?

However, there is a big difference. Mathematicians use the axioms as the starting point, but you won't see them constantly talking about how these axioms are just absolutely true. You just need to accept them to make any sense of the universe, but you don't need to claim "absolutes" as you see in logic. They're just axioms. That's more appealing to me.

You really have to respect this Marc guy he was VERY VERY sympathic and reasonable

(CONT) From what I understand, the word 'Atheist' was first use in ancient Rome and Greece to describe non-believers in Zeusianesque mythologies. Jews and Christians were called Atheist because their God didn't come with a statue. The fact is, words and definitions change all the time. Sometimes they change and make the topic in play more clearly defined and understood, other times the change serves to muddle and confuse the topic. After 20 years of watching this, it's caused confusion.

The caller at the hour mark, was basically saying that a whole bunch of true believers, most that I know, and knew, are never, ever going to stop believing no matter how many times or ways you show them the facts, and show them their beliefs are false, and based on false reasoning. None of those arguments mean anything. They "feel" Jesus, or god and that's it.

The gray area that you need so badly is fine as long as you're not trying to force everyone else into the same gray area. Which is what most religious people tend to do.

indeed, cheers.

Everybody should know that when you teach a child how to think, you are also teaching that child what to think. Because we are all reactors to the impression of what is given to us, and it leads to what we think.

I agree. Applied to my point, it is illogical to claim 'Atheism' covers both (A) the lack of belief in any God(s) and (B) the belief that God(s) do not exist. One is the lack of a belief, the other is a belief.

Thanks, Xaio. Of course you can! *HUGS*

There's such an easy way out for a zero-lies-advocate to get through Barker's example with the abused wife. You don't have to lie to the hoseband. You can tell him, that what he's doing is immoral, wrong, and you will not participate, and you will not tell him where his wife is. That's basiclly how the "zero lie policy" is tought in Buddhism.

JT Eberhard.... sounds like a wall street firm.

32 minutes: Convictions are a greater enemy to truth than even lies. -Nietzsche

"Stealing, even to save a life is still wrong." sounds like dogma to me. I think most people think that murder is a more heinous crime than theft. Sometimes in life we have to make difficult choices. I hope I never have to rely on you in a tight spot.

"I never called you a scrub, did I?" I never said you did. I explained that I didn't call you a scrub either. "You're bragging about your life, not me." I never would have brought it up if you hadn't started insulting me. I was just having some fun, and you went all "Incredible Hulk" on everyone. I keep trying to calm the Hulk down with a hug, but apparently he's too "manly" to accept a hug.