Please let Sarah finish the science she is presenting over mostly colloquial individual experiences.

Nate said what I’ve been dealing with as a masters racer… Eating more equals better workouts, but also more belly fat. I get nervous about belly fat as a skinny bike racer, so I stop eating as much… which is when I start to have issues during races.

Do what Sarah's little cousin does - Look for the proper amount of calories to fuel your life. Slightly more is better than slightly less for endurance athletes.

I think I’ll call this episode, “Myth Busters Buffet.” Thanks for breaking down all the science for us!

I mean....It's the tour de france, the guy weighed 29kg more. Strap a 5 gallon bottle to the pro and he'll burn as many calories.

great discussion!. To your point about using this study to change training paradigms - this is only 14 subjects. Case studies like this are good for hypothesis generation/exploration, but not hypothesis testing. Study does raise interesting discussion.

Very good guys!! We “masters” get no much specific content at high level. Thank all of you.

@TrainerRoad

3 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

@kainearkley4598

3 ай бұрын

Where is the science specific to masters in this podcast?

1:08:34 that's really interesting the calories consumed by the pro (riding in peloton) 7098 calories / day vs rec. cyclist riding TdF course, but without peloton 8580 calories. Say you have 25% of your energy riding in the peloton vs. being in the wind all day. 25% seems like a reasonable figure for energy saving riding in a bunch. If the rec. cyclist had been riding in a group, they would have used 8580*0.75=6435 calories, making the rec. cyclist more efficient than the pro!! Would you not have expected the pro, by virtue of being a pro, to have been more efficient, e.g. going further on the same amount of calories. What am I missing here?

It would a great feature add to track the amount of carb intake on TR. From personal experience, I can confirm that my adaptation is better when fueling “correctly”. It would be awesome to see that correlation being validated on the platform.

That last study needs to have a reversal - ave Joe in the peloton and the pro do it all by his lonesome. Let's see the numbers. and how much the peloton aids someone. Hoping the ave Joe can hang on for some part of each day.

I believe Greg Lemond's VO2max was in the 93, and he mentions that Lance's was 78, which is closer to Jonathan's 70s . Would be interesting to hear Greg's analysis of Kristian's numbers.

@ebarr9476

3 ай бұрын

Apparently Lance had a crazy hi lactic acid threshold. Said his FTP was 450 watts juiced and 400 without the juice.

@bobfoster687

3 ай бұрын

@@ebarr9476Should we believe him?

Jonathan, its simple math. Energy = Power x Time. Also, units of energy can be specified in Joules or commonly referred to as a calorie(x4.2). So more time is more energy. 🙂

I'm a masters, I ride most youngsters off my wheel on the group rides ;)

Oh man, GATTACA, coming soon to a weight loss program near you

In the book the middle aged cyclist a section that stuck with me is that v02 when you're 90 is getting out of a chair.

Regarding The TT helmet design: The UCI will definitely ban this For obvious reasons. A major contributor to Tbi's Is rotational acceleration to the skullPeriod Helmet designs that add significant lever arms for applying torque to the head upon a crash, regardless of extra padding of any sort, Dramatically increase the potential for Head and neck injuriespecially at high speeds

@oldanslo

3 ай бұрын

It has been said that all helmets do this.

"Threshold training" isn't a recognized structure for training, but it is how a vast majority of people who aren't following a training program ride. A lot of people just go hard every ride and wonder why they don't get much faster past a point

The UCI has spent decades regulating the look of pro cycling. They are not going to flip flop on that now for the giro helmet. It is 100% gone.

@veganpotterthevegan

3 ай бұрын

They don't want a lawsuit from a company as big as Giro/Bell

Agree with Jonathan on this one! Of course the peloton was a factor on time to completion, but the pro athlete's watts was way more than the amateur. You'd get a similar result if the pro was not in the peloton, just not as extreme.

the advice for masters applies to everyone. lift weights drop the ego and do proper zone 2

bring back live podcasts. the editing makes me feel like im having a stroke

On the TdF section: The watts provided, is this average watts or NP? Would be interesting to see the difference on that. I would hazard a guess that the TdF rider has a NP much closer to average and the amateur has a large variation. On the who's right - it's not a binary answer. Yes, the peloton will make a huge difference but the point Jonathan makes about time is equally important, especially with regards to fueling. A question though. What IF would we expect to see over time? The IF for the TdF rider is higher but guess if they were riding for 158hrs their IF would be similar to, if not less, 0.65. I'm hoping to ride an Audax across Wales (UK) in the summer. It's 400km and we're aiming for a completion time of 21 hours. What kind of IF should we be aiming for over a distance and, more importantly, time of this scale? Is there any body of work that has mapped out IF over time?

I'm new to TR (long time listener, first time sign up). Im competed a ramp test, had one indoor workout - unfortunately had to cut one interval short because phone battery dropped to 5% and didnt want to lose it. No progression, but i get it. Completed an outside workout today, bit didnt stick to intervals. No progression change. Is this because i didnt stick to intervals or because it was an oitside ride? Just trying to understand

Vingegard looked so fast he lost 2s per km to Ayuso...... in 10km ITT.... that Tour TT performance looks more incredible with every ordinary time trial the guy makes.

Polarized is not amount of time, but amount of sessions. Most amateurs ride all rides in zone 3-4. Easy should be super easy. You should be able to do the same workout the next day.

@TrainerRoad

3 ай бұрын

That is one definition of it, however, if you look at the body of research you will see varying definitions, including strict time-in-zone proportions.

@ketle369

3 ай бұрын

@@TrainerRoad No it’s not. I’m Norwegian. We invented the method. If you ride ten hours a week, good luck with trying to be in zone 5-6 for two hours…

@TrainerRoad

3 ай бұрын

That is certainly the difficult reality of adhering to the TiZ interpretation of Polarized Training.

@ds6914

3 ай бұрын

@@ketle369 yes, haven't seen any strict time in zone examples. but number of sessions doesn't work too well fas a general definition either. eg. if you train 3 times a week you'd be doing one high intensity session a fortnight..

@ds6914

3 ай бұрын

@@TrainerRoad can show us any examples of people doing time in zone, or paper's studying it?

Regarding the amount of calories to complete a ride of a given distance. I think that regardless of the duration of the ride, if you adjust for body weight and efficiency, the amount of calories, a proxy for energy, will be the same. Here's why I think that. Imagine raising one Kilogram by one metre. This takes a certain amount of energy, which is then stored as potential energy. It doesn't mater if it takes one second or one minute to raise the weight the energy requirement is the same. Obviously when you factor efficiency in things change a bit, but only a bit.

The guys faces are superb as she was talking about the phases of menstruation 🤣😂

I think you missed the major difference. The pro peloton did it in half the time but not even close to half the calories, so there isn't even a point of arguing about the slip stream. Maybe look at the calories per hour consumed if you want to talk about the differences.

vo2 of 45 is pretty good for 58!

@TrainerRoad

3 ай бұрын

Yes it is!

Who’s right?…..Nate is Always’ right… end of!

@pecangrower

Ай бұрын

Nate I right. Twice as fast requires more than twice the watts. The aero gain of the fast moving peleton vs a slow moving peleton is the accumulated energy difference.

Our root cause with food isn't hunger. It is the types of foods we are eating. REAL food vs fake food will solve 90% of our food issues. This isn't the exactly on point of the podcast but at one point I heard scientists are trying to make us feel less hunger and I would hope scientists tackle the problem at the source. Heck think about how much better tomatoes are when you grow it at home. What if scientists optimize on tomato taste rather than size and color. People would be eating more fruits and veggies if they taste better. Sorry this is rant a bit off topic.

‘Age’ is actually a word.

@savagepro9060

3 ай бұрын

Nope. In programming age can be a number --->>> int age = 58; print age; 58

22:14 parametal training??? :D

@TrainerRoad

3 ай бұрын

🤘

maybe I missed it but the 30% increase in running miles is that increase over 1 mile of training or 10 or 20 or 100k per week? As 30% increase starting at 1 mile is vastly different than 30% increase starting at 100k.

The heavy one used more calories

45 Vo2 Max at 58 is well above the 90th percentile for age.... plus the guy weighed over 210lbs, yes? NOT a "very average cyclist!!! Time adds way more calories and just shows mechanistically that there's way more caloric overhead to just stay upright than the power one puts into the 2 wheels.

jfc what is up with these jump cut

@TrainerRoad

3 ай бұрын

Sometimes we make mistakes when speaking (we're not perfect ;) ). We promise this is a favorable alternative than listening to all of our stuttering and mistakes :)

@JimPanzer

3 ай бұрын

I mean, it's coming across as if sarah isn't able to utter a coherent thought when she's presenting her study@@TrainerRoad

@wertacus

3 ай бұрын

I think editing out the ums and ahs is good. The podcast is already pretty long without unintended parts

@MiguelAugusto1982

3 ай бұрын

I understand both sides... visually it's actually really strange and hard to keep focused on the topic. Luckily I listen to this mostly on Spotify and there its very ok... seamless. Maybe keep the whole thing here, idk

studies like this are always limited. 12 weeks, 16 weeks, is such a short time. what about cyclists who ride or train over many seasons or years. what a rider does in this situation is not what a rider chasing gains in 16 weeks should do. long term cyclists should drip feed their fitness up, to keep it sustainable. volume, progressive overload and appropriate intensity rather than "polarized" etc is the key.

@veydajar

3 ай бұрын

"Appropriate intensity" indeed! What is the history of the athletes in question, are they already reasonably trained? Then that's a different story. But many novice- and beginner-level recreational athletes start chasing intensity way too soon, while they may have been better served first establishing a solid aerobic foundation with a couple 500-hour years of strictly sub-AeT _volume_. But that's not sexy and doesn't sell training plans. ;)

Why can’t fat stores fill the gaps of insufficient fueling?

@iancarson8614

3 ай бұрын

fuel to create ATP is only part of the picture. muscle glycogen levels are key to being able to work at above moderate intensity. its the work which signals the adaptation. the brain wants glucose, and it controls the whole show. glucose stimulates insulin (outside of exercise) which promotes growth ( muscle protein synthesis and muscle glycogen uptake). cell signalling is the key to fitness gains, and glucose/ glycogen helps the signalling.

@TrainerRoad: Want a 5-star review? Please avoid race spoilers! 🙂At the very least, a heads-up would be helpful so I can skip ahead. I only watch cycling races while training indoors, which means I usually have a backlog and it can be _months_ after they air (just finished 2023 Vuelta!). I can understand if it was a general cycling show, but _The Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast_ has always been about training, so spoilers are unexpected. I'd say 6 montths is probably a good statute of limitations. Please and thank you! 🙏

How many zones are we talking about here. I work of 6 zones

Time to shave that mustache

Great podcast! The Giro helmet is an abomination period! I hope the UCI bans it. I'm one who feels that time trials should be "Cannibal"; road bikes, no aerobars no TT equipment. A test of athletes not technologies. I think that helmet would fit in nicely with the triathlon culture.

Zone 1 is 160wats and below

The guy with the mustache knows much less than the other guy.

Nate's wrong;)

TrainerRoad always seems to skip over fats and protein when talking about 'energy availability'. You can have all the energy you need without consuming carbs. You're always talking about being 'fast' and getting 'faster' and never about efficiency which takes much longer to train. You can get 'fast' very quickly, but without efficiency, it won't last long.

Less Tec. more training, ban these helmets.

@jackiegerwitz-dunn4046

3 ай бұрын

Yes!!!

Hey, Nate is wrong

Where is Chad?

@oldanslo

3 ай бұрын

At a bar in Spokane.

Wait, is trainer road talking about road racing!? I stopped listening to you for that reason they constantly snobbed anything road related. I bet they still won't talk about TDF stages this year

comparing amateur cyclists with doped super pros... what a pointless discussion