Was great to be on, loads of fun meeting the GANG. Looking forward to giving more 100% accurate opinions down the line.

@_reenzane

Ай бұрын

It's great to get your input on stuff like this. Like Max said, you bring a different perspective, while still knowing what you're talking about.

@burkles4456

Ай бұрын

One of us

@guccigang9881

Ай бұрын

the everyone hates healers bit towards the end was golden. you were a great addition to the video.

@avshipman

Ай бұрын

Your take on Neltharion at the end with the RP is incredibly based. You were an amazing guest.

@nickalberda1

Ай бұрын

These talks need more of you!

Max you’ve gotten so amazing at hosting these kind of talks. I don’t mean it to shit on where you started, I’ve always enjoyed you hosting these things. But the small expertise on asking the right persons input at the right time, or introducing ideas/topics at the right time is really showing the skill you’ve gained and it makes these conversations so enjoyable to listen to.

Love Growl so accurately calling out Max for saying Larodar is the perfect healer boss but not from a healers perspective 😂

@Diolusion

Ай бұрын

I mean hearing 2 people have a take on a boss isnt a real good sample size, Im a healer in raids and its probably one of my favourite fights this expansion, These bosses are all subjective, I liked raszageth (post move speed nerf), its on noones list, who gaf about these lists. I clicked on this to hear differing perspectives on bosses, noones right or wrong, just enjoy the game :) And max's points were correct about larodar, he just only provided positive ones without addressing the issues it had until later.

@_reenzane

Ай бұрын

Raid Healing in Awakened for my first time ever, Larodar got to be the most fun fight after Rashok. Maybe that's just because as a mistweaver I basically solo the Root heal, but still.

@MrBonoso

Ай бұрын

​@@_reenzanelarodar was not fun on mythic prog as a healer. Awakened does not accurately reflect that boss at all.

@dzinx0rrr

Ай бұрын

Growl called them out in a lot of ways here. I have a feeling that they just voted elitist style and picked all bosses that were the hardest just because they beat them first. Just because a boss has a lot of stupid layers it doesn't mean it's interesting and has a good design. Only Growl didn't fall for it like... come on... Tindral?

@josefplacek4200

Ай бұрын

@@MrBonoso I enjoyed Larodar on mythic a fuckton :) still one of my favourite bosses as healer

Teapod was a great addition to the grp, he could join more often if you ask me.

Love seeing teapot join the raiding community in wow, him and Max should just jam more often.. love it.

@callmemc6

Ай бұрын

The two biggest yappers in the MMO community, they literally have a content factory in the palms of their hands

@DaveGreco

Ай бұрын

@@callmemc6 lol absolutely

"you could be in the group with a bunch of zoo animals and I feel like people would slowly progress that boss and learn" - Growl

@josefplacek4200

Ай бұрын

agreed, my guild of zoo animals slowly progressed and learned to not spread lightning AIDS

Man after hearing the tail end of this I kinda agree with Growl, these complex fights are all so cool in theory but in every guild that doesn’t have a very consistent skill level across the roster (most guilds) ends up feeling like shit in practice. People who are mentally afk because the mechanics aren’t that hard for them, people who still don’t *really* get P1 after 400 pulls, and everyone in the middle trying to enjoy the boss

@Tensooni

Ай бұрын

I guess thats a big personality thing. From sports to gaming, one of the most impressive attributes for me has always been consistency. Having a person be so reliable and consistent that you don't even need to communicate to know exactly what they're doing, or how they're reacting to X or Y... For me that made everything from the p1 dance, organizing for feathers (and especially being backup for feathers), even some of the seeds with a guild that was notoriously unpredictable, actually feel goated. I could figure out "oh this DH is really skilled at the game and sees things, somehow. If they're over here, they will run to that seed so ill go over here instead. That rogue is a blind monkey and will probably run into mine at the last second, whats the backup plan? I wasn't even a part of the guild, i went in to fill on a friend's guild for an absence, ended up becoming a permanent member for half their raids, then all their raids. Watching the guild leader and other members slowly adapt to eachother on that specific boss was infinitely more enjoyable than any of the other bosses i've progressed since... idk, nyalotha maybe?

Growl has justifiable hatred against warlocks

Max made a point about visibility on Nymue and I would have to strongly disagree, this might all just boil down to WoW having very bad accessibility options but as a colorblind person who struggles with greens Nymue was not only the hardest but also most frustrating boss as most of the time I felt like I had 0 say in some of the mistakes I made because I LITERALLY couldn't see the green lines when they were above the lines on the floor that emitted the small hue(?) to indicate it was active.

@LimitMaximum

Ай бұрын

Ya that take specifically was not accounting for colorblindness. I’m not sure what wows options are for that but from what it sounds like they’re not good enough

@billymays9296

Ай бұрын

​@LimitMaximum Speaking of colorblindness, have you heard of people having massive issues with Mekkatorque because of colorblind people? I found by far the easiest workaround for our colorblind raider and it seems no one else did.

@jparker923

Ай бұрын

​@@LimitMaximum I have tried all 3 colorblind modes and they don't seem to work well with mine. I have found that the Inky Black Potions can make a huge difference seeing mechanics on some fights

@Tensooni

Ай бұрын

I've also met someone that said they had to bench themselves on a boss... possibly Sire Denathrius, because the red on red was actually invisible to him. I get that they want to be a bit thematic or something but come on, if the boss is a tree, nothing stops you from making green grass but a brownish looking vine or something radiating out of the boss, or making the lines have higher contrast/opacity.

I really enjoy this teapot guy! good inputs all the time i hope we will see more wow content from him!

Teapot is a legend

I really enjoy these discussions. I once was a Mythic raid leader, and though I no longer play, I still keep tabs on the game. I've always enjoyed the complexity and creative problem-solving of high-end raiding. Been following the RWF since its inception and will continue to do so as well! Thank you for bringing these great conversations together and best of luck in the next race, Max. Cheers to the rest of the guests for their wonderful contributions and varied opinions as well.

Ah, Growl the sweet summer child, never having to heal Molten Core back when dispel didn’t have a cooldown.

41:15 - 42:56 This was the fucking funniest, uninterrupted boss rant I've heard in such a long time

I started playing Classic, but just recently started getting recommended Maximum's tier list videos, and i'm now starting to consider playing retail it's so interesting seeing the fights in the background and listen to these varying player backgrounds and opinions to the same fights

Mighty :D good to see u here :)

Every single manager/boss should listen to the closing thoughts of Max on watching his trial players during raids. Having someone's eyes burnt into the back of your head will make you perform infinitely worse Also great video, enjoyed the entirety of it over several days

Tierlist content walked so this format could run

I don't raid and haven't since WotLK but man these videos make me want to.

Dratnos "I don't wanna dunk on it too hard " Max thinking " People pleasing again". 🤣

Growl has a great point with primal council tbh - just because it's a council fight doesn't make it ok to compare a 2nd boss to 5th and 6th bosses from other raids which were also council fights. 2nd bosses should not be like council of blood, and that's ok.

I think having the last set of Mythic bosses (last 2-3 bosses) being mythic/achievement only would be great. It would let players who want it still have that chase goal, it would allow Blizzard to not worry about nerfs since it would be a chase goal rather than necessary for progression, and it would give blizzard more itemization freedom since they wouldn't have to worry about sticking a weapon on last boss with the knowledge that that boss would have the highest ilvl weapon for different classes/specs in mythic that would be necessary for BiS for people. It also could be explained in game as well. Here is this lore moment in the raid, it's going to be epic, we're going to pull all the stops, we aren't going to nerf it (within reason), if you kill the boss, then you are a champion and you get this epic mount/transmog/achievement.

tank do interesting things with adds and swaps, healers have their ramp up fun, and the gronk do big number, everyone is happy.

It's crazy seeing teapot here. I do find it ironic I'm moving from wowbto gw2 while he's joining wow XD. Glad he's enjoying it.

dude, u should, for the next race to world first, you should buy a deoderant that is golden, or spray paint one golden, or gild it, and give it to your player u deamed played the sweatiest on prog. that would be really funny.

I loved primal council, super fun to tank, and despite being our guilds main tank, we eventually just had me switch to frost just for that fight because it pumped so hars with the 4 target cleave. Also, as a non mythic raider I loved tanking raz. It had a nice rhythm of tanking swapping and was just very enjoyable (done as blood dk)

I loved Terros and Kurog as a resto shammy. Both forced all healers to give their 110% and plan everything ahead. I remember we were able to kill kurog cause I swapped to Acid Rain and did 26k dps as we were not able to push the boss before all phases were done and he was one shotting us. Healing and trying to DPS as shaman was a legit option and I got 98% parse dps from that fight lol.

Oh my god, the healer take on Fyrakk was 1000% on point. That was the carpel tunnel boss for healers.

On the note of Forgotten experiments being hard on tanks, it was also INSANELY harder for specific tanks for no good reason. I started progging the fight with Prot Pala, and for some reason, his two best defensives, Bubble and Spellwarding, just do not work on that fight. They don't block the magic damage from the tank debuff - aka the only thing that does damage to tanks. Crazy. I ended up swapping to blood and suddenly I was in 0 danger of dying while being 20 ilvls lower.

Teapot was a real one, love the energy he brought

Interesting discussion around the cosmetic only fights. FFXIV does this with the Ultimate Raids, its purely cosmetic and title oriented and I feel that it is reasonably popular. Granted it could be done better as it is locked behind completed the full savage tier prior to it, but there are situations where cosmetic only is a good idea. I feel Cutting Edge shouldn't exist, because it does make people feel they need it to be a competitive guild, but its a hard one. If Fyrakk and Tindrall were cosmetic only, what would happen to their heroic loot? Would that drop elsewhere or would it not happen at all?

Growls take on Larodar is me right now. My guild is progging it now and it is exactly a small amount of us surviving the whole fight doing mechanics while the others are just ignoring orbs, messing up ground fire spread, or randomly people interrupting the chain.

you know what would have made magmabro good? if they buffed his hp and added some mechanics that made the dps gain damage when they did it right, so lets say they go pick up some orb that clears a dot or something, but the dot does half of the remaining damage when you clear it, but you gain more damage and haste the more damage u take, and its more of a dps race as well as a heal race, and make the tanks have to jump into the lava, tank an add and use a frost bomb thingy or something to freeze it in place killing it, idk something a bit more extra and its a killer fight.

I think what you're missing with Nymue is that some of us are color blind. I can't fucking see shit on that boss, the mechanics are red and green for who knows what reason instead of red and purple or green and purple or some other combination that makes them visible. The colors are also simply too faded for me to see the lines properly. Color blind options in wow are unfortunately not good enough because they change EVERYTHING, whereas I would just want to have the option to change boss mechanics color and leave health bars and environment colors as they are.

Fyrakk discussion was hilarious, just a constant stream of reasons why it was a terrible fight, great Nr 1 pick from Dratnos!

nelth is easy to fix, but it destroys the fight, if you made the dot on wall break modify by the mitigations of the person being flung, but only for tank specs, such that dps still cant do nothing. but then, it would almost certainly be correct to just use defensive cds and break multiple walls as a time just for cleaner routing.

I really want to see liquid and echo do fights without weak auras lol.

This video format along with the best/worst M+ dungeons bang ass. Also Teapot was uniquely perfect as the 4th for this, he knows his shit and is accomplished when it comes to high end MMOs, but has a very clearly distinct opinion compared to Max, Drat and Growl.

as much as I agree with different peoples takes on different bosses.. but man growl was SPITTIN when he talked about tindral.

Broo I wished teapot was playing wow during BFA... mythic xanesh insta wipes took a heavy toll on my guild and my own mental, cus man individual mechanic check during that one boss gives me PTSD.

Kinda want to do something like this with my guild that the GM is a CE raider in a separate guild and the other officers mostly AoTC raiders.

Completely unrelated to this video, but Max, or anyone honestly, where can i get Max's wallpaper that is animated. Ive been looking for that ever since i saw it first and i cannot for the life of me find it.

the dps get the dot, there are some icicles that are dropped and that disapear if you dont use them, but the dot is long and mild so clearing ti early can one shot you unless u use personals or externals, but definitley doable for all classes and necessary for most people to meet the dps check. some weird frost mage dude or something could have said "hey this guy is really hot so i will throw you ice to cool off, but be carefull about the ice exploding into steam" idk some generic lore thing and then you would have a really cool dps race fight if tuned correctly

Growl is so unbelievably based

Does anyone know if the rumor about Magmarax's platform moving during beta true?

Yea...at the time rank like 800-ish and we had the same feeling of "We are so fucking bad at the game, this boss should have died bilion days ago"...aslo for me personally THE most memorable boss ever, cuz it's the only fight I had ever seen that ended in a draw...what do I mean by draw? Well. Boss was on some 0.1% hp, we wiped, but we had a holy priest, so he turned to angel form, and little known fact it takes boss 1-3 sec to reset if there is angel form holy priest on the field, and dots finished him off so fight ended with all 20 of us dead, and boss dead aswell (I will try to dig up the logs and post it here so you can check deathtimers, litteraly we wiped ~1sec before kill, but boss died anyway :P)

Aye yo Mightyteapot that’s the fucking boy!!! Get him on the podcast

you call the dps buff ice cold, and you make the coolest dps race in wow history if you tune it right.

Personally Tindral was one of the least fun fights for me, and I dreaded logging in to prog on him lol

My guild was one of the first and one of the only ones who killed Zskarn after the cheese was removed but before the RNG was removed from the fight. It was absolutely atrocious. Sometimes you'd just spawn a trap in the middle of the room, sometimes it'd spawn to fill in a gap you left earlier. On our kill our RNG worked out in a way where it might as well have been the fixed version of the boss, all our traps spawned opposite from the boss in the room except for 2 or 3 that didn't end up mattering. Design of the fight was cool, but the approach to buffing it in a hotfix was absolutely stupid. Especially when the dev admitted on twitter that his guild killed it using the cheese days before the hotfix went live.

52:40 shaman can't even get recognition when talking about classes unable to deal with rasz winds lmao so sad

Most people I know didn’t complain about the color problem on Nymue - Max must be getting that from somewhere, but I think Larodar and Sarkareth are usually considered worse

I would really love to hear the pespective of a non mythic raider on this, someone who does only heroic. That would give another perspective on stuff, that resonates more with what the average wow player sees.

or just get everyone one, or like order a funny named deoderant for everyone, and then not say anything but lay them out at everyones stations during the race randomly before last boss prog or something as a joke, would be pretty hype.

Please do more content with Teapot, that man is the goat.

Honest question: Is the reason Max states that tanks must be your best players in a top guild, but falls off significantl afterwards have to do with gearing, strategy, or both? IE: In a top guild, DPS are fed more gear becuase that gives a better return on investment, then the tanks must use skill much more effectively to survive mechanics that could be outgeared? And/or does a tank who's bulding the strategy for a boss rather than following a guide have a higher amount of responsibility in execution to ensure a strategy would even work in the first place, so ensuring your tanks knock it out of the park every strategy change is more important than other roles?

@SargeantBlue

Ай бұрын

You're basically having to not get oneshot and do good damage while being significantly undergeared, our tanks were getting clapped by rashok even end of season, then imagine that 10 ilvls lower

as long as your warlock doesnt lag and moves early killing half the dps...

Teapot was fun, bring him back around!

Every time THD's PoV comes out I'm just flabbergasted at this man's default Elvui...

@iamme625

Ай бұрын

That's definitely not default elvui

The dragonflight raids are... Not good. Amirdrassil is good but I really hate fighting Fyrakk as a healer. Constant dispells (praying more than 1 healer is paying attention) then healing mobs. Its kinda cool to heal during a bossfight but ultimately it can be a killer if your group is ass or your resources are just being depleted. The raids in shadowlands felt better overall. Nathria, even though it lagged my computer so hard, was a ton of fun. Healer/tank/dps perspective in raid fights are largely different.

As a heroic healer my list would be super close to Growl. And I might have Fyrakk has the worst boss of the expansion by far. Healing on that fight was MISERABLE and still is to this day. It's as clunky as classic but with speed requirements of retail. Big nono.

You should get Hirumaredx on one of these episodes that would be cool

Growl is too funny

I have no idea why Tindral and Smolderon are so high , prolly the worst fights on Mythic. Tindral was just mechanic vomit and had to be constantly nerfed and Smolderon was just extreme bullet hell where U get instakilled if 1 person fucks up. Also HEAVILY reliant on WAs

Lol at Max telling healers which fights they should like multiple times...

"you could do top 30 raid boss list and echo of nelhtarion would not be on there" tells you all you need to know about how bad the boss is, since there arent even 30 raid bosses this expansion :D

If fyrakk humanoid form wouldnt look like a lego villain i could enjoy the fight 😂

@burkles4456

Ай бұрын

Naw he looks like a Bionicle

@Awesomebulba

Ай бұрын

@@burkles4456 doesnt make it any better 😭

It's a shame you got rid of the Notepad for a set up spreadsheet

Having random adds that integrate so poorly with the UI is never ever fun as a healer "mechanic". If they want to make healer mechanics they need to happen on the actual group not on random adds that are a nightmare to heal. None of the healer mechanics of the entire expansion where particularly fun. I'd say the best one was the absorb heal on Smolderon and even that is super average in terms of mechanic but at least it's a bit different.

dont play lotro nowadays, but when i did a year ago or more, the tanking gameplay in that game was way cooler than in wow imo. aggro is harder, you have aoe taunts that copy threat, and you mostly cannot hold threat without copying in the right settings, you have to use self healing aggro and all sorts of things, there is fights where you can kite as a strat properly, wow just has weird tank swaps and basic bitch tank mechanics, no real add management, just pull everything and do something that has damage and threat quick, and if you play your cds right and self heals right its very unlikley you die without getting one shot. i think fights that has adds that must be managed, kited and are actually dangerous for tanks to just tank and spank is good, bring back necessary cc strats and slower paced more punishing mechanics that has to be managed, not just a bunch of shit on the floor. for example in the last boss of the raid tier i played there are dragons that spawn in the large dragon fight that has to be away from the team or it debuffs everyone and it is good night, so you basically eith need 3 tanks or you need to be really clever with the adds and nuke them down quick while managing the other 8-10 adds that spawn in the harder waves, that fight feels better than wow fights even though wow is a lot more polished, at least as a tank imo. what they could just joink from lotro is to have adds that can be cc'd, but that get immunities from that type of cc on use, and so to live a 2 min wave you need to use multiple kinds of cc per add and so on, its better than just a bunch of shit on the floor.

Whoever made this thumbnail, why did you feel the need to put a big red circle around razageth's head as if we couldn't already see it?

@mikkeal

Ай бұрын

Where?

@mike-oxlong

Ай бұрын

I missed it

@Ylseroth

Ай бұрын

Dude chill, it's for the algorithm, everyone does it. Same reason thumbnails change soon after posting a lot of times

@fronkacean

Ай бұрын

hello i made this thumbnail and ill gladly explain, the tldr is it makes more people click the video the slightly more in depth answer is probably that it adds more color contrast and therefore makes the thumbnail stand out more while battling every other thumbnail on your youtube home page. Hope this helps!

TERROS LOOT POOP. BAD LOOT BAD BOSS

@vital1114

Ай бұрын

NEED MY CHEESE

You could challenge tanks by making the raids require more than just two and make some insane mechanics for coordination. 4 man tank Mythic would be kind of insanely fun.

The fact that growl complains that in order to get cutting edge you have to defeat a difficult boss first is very funny to me

The Fact no one talked about the colors in the Nymue fight makes me crazy. iam colorblind and that boss gave me headaches everytime we were progressing this fight. it was horrible for me

@jamalthompson8090

Ай бұрын

they did speak about the colors

Growl ❤

Growl with the Larry take was perfect! I hate that boss because of every single point Growl made. The way of the people Growl for president!

growl is the goat

Teapot on the poddy when

Max I think you're missing the point on why having mythic being cosmetic only is a good thing. The only reason why raids have so many bosses right now is because they have to have a large skill curve and they need enough bosses to be relatively easy so a lot of people can get the best gear. If mythic was cosmetic only, there would be no reason to have so many bosses just for easy sources of mythic gear. If mythic was cosmetic only then you could delete half the bosses in a tier and double the loot bosses drop in heroic to compensate. Imagine if Amirrrasil was Volocross, Nymue, Smold, TSwift and Fyrak, and that was it, that's the whole tier, imagine if Vault was Eranog, Council, Terros, Kurog, Raz. Imagine if Aberus was Kazzara, Amalgam, Magmorax, Rashok, Sark. If mythic was cosmetic only then they wouldn't have to make random bosses to smooth out the skill curse and make it easier for people to get myth track gear. Also, to compensate they would have to increase the amount of loot that dropped from each boss, but that would be fine because each boss would be slightly harder. Hopefully not in unfun way, because less bosses means more time to tune and design each individual boss. I really think WoW needs to switch to a quality over quantity approach to raiding to make it more fun. Ideally this would make the skill curve look more like this: lfr: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Normal: 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, Heroic: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, Mythic: 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 instead of what it currently is, which is: lfr: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, Normal: 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7, 8, 9, 10 Heroic: 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 12, 13, 14, 15, Mythic: 14, 14, 15, 15, 16, 16, 18, 20, 20

@SargeantBlue

Ай бұрын

What a legendarily bad take, you'd either finish each tier first week or be progging the second boss for months

Anyone who says tindral is the best boss is clinically insane. They go on to say bosses like anduin are a problem because every mechanic will one shot you if you mess it up but ignore tindral is exactly that. Any boss that has no room for recovery is bad. A few pass/fail mechanics are fine but not all of them. Tindral is hot garbage. This stream just shows how out of touch the highest end guilds are with an average player.

@wolfwolf7152

Ай бұрын

The average player isnt doing mythic in the first place so tindral is a non issue

That guy Growl had so many bad takes its insane. Like he prefer bosses that are super easy, super classic and without mechanics? And why would you rate bosses on how fast you FARM them? Its like you dont enjoy raiding and you are there only for the loot/vault, but you are here to RATE raid bosses? Whats next? THD rating M+? And of course boss positioning matters. I mean you usually spend X amount of time on the first 1-2-3 bosses and A LOT MORE time on later bosses. So of course they need more mechanics and need to feel epic. Thats why Magmorax sucked. It felt like a first boss. But overall solid discussion. 10/10.

@wolfwolf7152

Ай бұрын

@@poorchris imagine being mad that group content requires the whole group to pull their weight lmao

@Shainihur

Ай бұрын

​@@poorchris Yeah 20 man raiding shouldnt require 20 people to play well for sure! If you have one guy holding you back, replace the guy, get a competent officer team that can do recruitment and bang, nonissue

>Nymue on the list Absolute fucking Mickey Mouse list.

my favorite boss this season is seigecraft. technically mop remixis dragonflight. and in SoO you could do a split strat if your dps was good for the pair boss in the town square dont remember then name, that i invented because my group was struggling with the mechanics of one of them, so we did a coordinated tomb stone, everyone stacked and we stacked those tomb stones inside each other and just went slowly forward as a well oiled machine, did have some lag wipes to it but it was real easy to deal with. im telling you, people did the wrong boss, the tomb stone one is much easier.

"i like mythic raiding" "i dont like bosses that take 100 or more pulls* growL

L take Ragnaros was better

I'd like dratnos but his voice though lol

@Nicternus

Ай бұрын

You probably have a shitty annoying voice too, but who cares? Dratnos is still awesome, squeaker or not.