Max's craziest take of all time is and always will be, "yeah, dogshit camera angles dont bother me."

@zizouwowist1641

Ай бұрын

he said doesnt affect me as a tank, it's not hard to understand; he doesnth ave to dispel or chek other position to heal,

@skarb5797

Ай бұрын

It reminds me of p2 intermission on Raszageth

@zaccole187

Ай бұрын

Max also tends to avoid high mythic plus outside of MDI/TGP settings. That’s a different game than trying to time a 16 key

@dracotoy

Ай бұрын

Honestly it has never bothered me when i tank, albiet i play bdk so

@blackopsy9

Ай бұрын

@@zaccole187 That's just absolutely not true. Last season he made it to 29's DPSing.

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but You should bring a casual/semicasual like the last time, it shows a diff perspective that is quite interesting.

Can’t wait for the top 10 just OK M+ dungeons ever made

@colestevens6016

Ай бұрын

I would watch that

@quinnquinnquinn215

Ай бұрын

Top 10 mid dungeons

Brb opening up an Italian market named Dungenos

@_deepcalm_

Ай бұрын

Open it up next to Raiderios

Uldaman is so long that if you zone in, you'll be an Ulda Man by the time you're out.

the most enjoyable part of Rise in m+ was clicking my hearthstone to get the fuck out

@prauvatyok

Ай бұрын

Rise was pretty much my favorite dungeon last season but I didn't do very high keys only like 20-22 max. If I did maybe I'd have a different opinion.

@Lightdark1992

Ай бұрын

@@prauvatyok I did it up to 26/27 and it was fucking horrible

@michaelmoran2125

Ай бұрын

​@@Lightdark1992this is the exact sentiment lol

The sheer LACK of Seat of the Triumvirate hurts

I think the most wrong I've ever been in World of Warcraft when it comes to predicting something.... Is before season 1 started when we were doing zeros. I was so sure that Ruby life pools was going to be the Cakewalk super fast 3 boss m plus that everyone loved, And that brackenhide hollow was going to be the worst dungeon to ever exist. Now at the end of the expansion brackenhide is one of my favorites ever and I fucking hate Ruby life pools

@robertpurner7413

27 күн бұрын

Brackenhide was always sleeper, but it genuinely always was one of my favorite dungeons. so much route flexibility, big pulls, varied trash, bosses that actually feel novel, and i do like the aesthetic as well, but i can see how the latter might be a turn-off for some.

Poor Fronks gonna get flamed in the next PoddyC after this title mishap

@dratnos

Ай бұрын

oh it's already starting don't worry

@fronkacean

Ай бұрын

look at how many comments its already generated - to some this looks like an innocent mishap, when in reality its algorithm manipulation at its finest (oops hehe)

guys did anyone notice the typo in the title

@emansfield2017

Ай бұрын

1:08:43 not sure about the title but I definitely noticed this gold

@Dac85

Ай бұрын

He should've kept it.

@Komvunis

Ай бұрын

Silence, Dungenos

@vaethe_w

Ай бұрын

i wish Drat, I wish.

It is a crime that Seat of the Triumvirate was not in the top 3 of everyone's lists

I'm a little surprised that nobody had Seat of the Triumvirate on their list. That was a dog shit dungeon.

The fact that only Dratnos had “Uldaman, LoT” is crazy. It is absolutely my least favorite dungeon of all time.

@dratnos

Ай бұрын

yeah i was surprised more people didn't have it - i didn't want to put it higher though because i feel like sometimes whenever a dungeon is current we feel more strongly about it than we will once it's out of rotation

@xsardes336

Ай бұрын

I hate this dungeon, and hate even more the 5920 timer changes blizz made to it...but I dont know would I put it in my list. I dont like putting current things on lists like that. The older the dungeon the more objective we are cuz we only remember consistanly and very bad/good aspects of dungs, while with current dungeon we could have a bad expierience week ago, and it isn't really a big deal, but it bricked the key and we are mad abaut it, cuz again its recent

@eqr8926

Ай бұрын

one of my favorites of this expansion lol

@iddqdxxx84

Ай бұрын

I feel the same way, especially like every boss in there is no joke (maybe outside of the dwarves, which are at least annoying).

@Rockforce80

Ай бұрын

Agreed that dungeon can burn in hell. Delete 2 of the bosses and you'd be on a path to redemption

How is there not a single shrine of the storm, cathedral, of triumvirate in these list? I like challenging content but those were so unnecessarily punishing and immediately became dead keys with like half of the affixes at the time

@colestevens6016

Ай бұрын

Probably because a lot of them are higher key M+ers and Shrine def was not fun in PUGs but in coordinated groups it was managable

@someguy3508

Ай бұрын

Yea their takes are not syncing with the community. Most of us cleared up to 20 for the vault and maybe did some 22-23s for the lols. These guys live to push keys as high as possible. Their experience is totally different

@toastghost7621

Ай бұрын

Yeah SotS was chill tbh, a vibe for sure. Seat is def surprising, they definitely forgot it

@Terrezio

Ай бұрын

Like the lads said, they've made a lot of stinkers

MoP CMs are NOT "rose tainted glasses". There's a huge difference between M+ Keys scaling "up" vs overall ilvl scaled to a fixed number (even down, if you were higher) in CMs. Tuning was spot on in CMs because of fixed lower ilvl. In M+ scaling, Boss and Trash HP and Damage goes only "up and up", Players.... not so much during gearing process and it literally stops once you are geared.

I can't believe Temple of sethralis wasn't on the list. Many problems but the teeming dervish with the pulsing beguiling mob where the dungeon was literally impossible

HERE FOR WORST DUNGENOS

Having a proper camera is really important to me. I only had it happen once, I was a bit under the weather at the time, but getting motion sickness because the camera cant bloody stop gyrating and vibrating like a bunny on steroids in mating season on every little doodad on the walls is no bueno.

Seat of the Triumvirate was so awful that nobody wants to mention its name.

@Shyftus

Ай бұрын

If it comes Back ill skip the season

@Hynrah

Ай бұрын

It's funny. I honestly think people completely forgot about it. I personally loved it.

I hadn't seen the dungeon list for season 1 of TWW and hearing people mention that Siege is coming back broke me so hard. Just for me to look it up and find out that they're bringing back three of my least favorite dungeons of all time alongside of it makes me not even want to bother playing M+ for the first season of TWW regardless of how good the new dungeons are. Whoever thought this dungeon set was a good idea for the first season of a new expansion needs to reevaluate everything and go back to the drawing board with it.

Here's a random idea for you, Create a great 7 boss WoW raid, but only use dungeon bosses. Feel free to tune the bosses however you like.

3:09 "A mechanic you feel wronged by" is one of the funniest ways to put that sentiment into words. It's so damn personal.

How none of them put Seat up there is crazy to me

@desudesu8695

Ай бұрын

cuz half of them didnt evne play the game in legion lol

@ChanJustWon

Ай бұрын

@@desudesu8695 just growl

@greindes1579

Ай бұрын

I think all of Legion dungeons introduced after release suffered from being added to roster of dungeons which people were used to (and they were also unbalanced). I think I have done it and Cathedral like 2 times in M+ over all Legion lol. This might be hot take, but I would prefer to see them again over something like Maw of Souls

@vaxxeenmtg9733

Ай бұрын

@@desudesu8695it’s like drat saying how he loved bfa. What was great about bfa m+? Playing prot war rogue rogue DH nearly every season lol. I guess if you were those classes sure

"Uldaman is too long!" Meanwhile De other SIde : 42+ min timer

@someguy3508

Ай бұрын

De Other Side is amazing though. Uldaman sucked

@occproduction1704

Ай бұрын

@@someguy3508 extremely subjective

@someguy3508

Ай бұрын

@@occproduction1704 yep. Still true

@occproduction1704

Ай бұрын

@@someguy3508 NPC

@fastydave

7 күн бұрын

DoS was dog shit, you're wrong

Watching Necrotic Wake in the back and seeing party frames at 10% health constantly and party now wiping is something else :D

You guys need to find someone who pushes really high keys but has like never run with an actual group ever he’s just only ever plugged anything. I think it would add a very interesting perspective

Love these videos! War within The Dawnbreaker dungeon and maybe City of Threads are about to be legendary

Dorki explaining that he's been healing keys and then hearing him rage about people being stupid warms my heart

Cathedral of Eternal Night and Seat of the Triumvirate didnt make this list?

Love those type of Videos please continue , goated format period

Arcway was a major offender in terms of dungeon design. Half the trash in that dungeon was just not playable. the best thing you could do was skip the entire right side to the general, then drop down and go to the spider boss. Also pretty much all boss mechanics that actually hit hard being unavoidable or close to it is just not right. The whole mechanic of the doors was also stupid. Due to that, there was a part of the dungeon that literally nobody saw, that was the hallway between passage to General and the X connector to Middle area/left wing. That right wing corridor was pretty much inaccessible, there was quite literally no point in even having it, i am 100% certain almost nobody saw that Hallway or what mobs there are.

Hearing the perspectives of these players is so cringe. They’re so hopelessly out of touch with 99.99% of the player experience.

Hi Max, where do you get you amazing desktop background ? Manny thanks in advance !

I think Spires of Ascension has a strong argument for worst m+ dungeon of all time. It has everything: -Disconnected sections with hard cut offs for count -Slow taxis everywhere -A mandatory jump skip -Mobs in stealth -LoS pulling -Difficult bosses

At 15:57 I learned that growl was in my group when I ran nelth's lair. Glad the timer was so free when they brought that place back that if you could complete the dungeon the timer never mattered. I think my first +20 Nelth's that season I literally went to do the first pull popped my first defensive too late died as the tank and ended up wasting everyone CD's and lust and than we just pulled that shit in two pulls and still timed the key. I think that dungeon run ended up having like 20+ deaths and it was still a timed key.

... Blaming the individuals and calling them idiots for pulling mobs through walls in Tol Dagor... that's a wild take. "Urr, pressing some random ability" nope. Any fire mage offensive ability. Anything and everything applied ignite, ignite spread, pulled mobs. Unholy DK disease, like 15-30% of your damage (depending on build).. Not random abilities. "You could learn the spots" yeah, anywhere after the first boss. Awakened definitely skewed the perspective here.

In Spires of Ascension, I had a friend that kept throwing the spear at the light angel and couldn't figure out why they were wiping. Also I didn't hear you guys mention the bug where if the camera clipped the light angle behind you it would kill your spear to bring the boss back down.

Anyone have the link for this doc so i can do it with some buddies?

my guild members really wanna run some dungenos this week

Brain baby, or crazy thought. What if reaching over 100% trash was not necessarily detriment, but it would increase your output or stats.

i went to bed listening to this, and fronk and Dratnos just decide to wake me up mid sleep at the end? SMH

You guys should rank wow's raid trinkets or races. Love listening to you guys crashing out on each other.

wtf was that ray of shadow apparition at @1.42.20 ?

Max huge fan but I think the list is a bit focus on the high end players. As a mid range player. I think these dungeons were absolutely brutal Legion Arcway Vault of the warden Seat of the triumpvale Cathedral of eternal night BFA Tol dagor Temple of snakes(whatever name it’s called) Siege of boralus Shrine of the storm Kings rest Shadowlands De other side Plaguefall Sanguine depth Dragonflight Azure vaults (s1) HOI (s2) Uldaman Outside dungeons Grimrail depot Temple of the jade serpent Vortex pinnacle

Man Growl and Dorki are coping HARD. SD was the worst dungeon theyve put out thus far. Name a week that wasn't bursting volcanic and it was complete trash. Cramped areas, large boss aoes, terrible camera, and to top it off you had many MANY pats that would just wipe you. AND THEN GROWL COMPLAINS ABOUT GRD FOR THE EXACT REASONS WE HATED SD. Bruhhhhhh.

I have been preaching for about a year now that if they just had a literal spirit healer mob standing at each checkpoint it would just be the best and most obvious thing of all time.

As someone who would probably be considered a “casual”, even though I’ve watched some RTW First since coming back to WoW in BFA. I have legit enjoyed these videos of y’all chopping it up and ranking and providing your perspectives in this long form style. So I, at least, watch every second of these videos and just wanted to say gg’s 🤘🏻

I must say he is right about nelf lair......I hated that place each week or when I got the key.....and back then I played a rogue so we had skips but dam it was total shit

The issue with Nelth Lair on fort week is 40% of the dmg taken is from the two scorpions at the end of the dungeon... very nasty mob

I think if you played primarily (or exclusively) with random players, especially at a lower level, it would massively shift your opinions on some of these. Court of Stars and Uldaman, for the exact same reasons, made me so mad. Court also had the issues that were mentioned, like the profession gimmicks... the enforcers... I don't think it was mentioned, but starting the dungeon with a minute long boatride omfg... But the thing that bothers me the most in these dungeons is how much harder other people can make it. Obviously that's always gonna be true, if you've got people standing in fire it's gonna be harder on the healer, if you've got people randomly (/accidentally) pulling mobs it's gonna be harder on the tank. If you've got a tank that keeps moving out of AoEs the DPS are gonna have a tough time... but some things take it to a whole other level, and it's not obvious that the individuals are actually failing. They think they've handled the mechanic because they've survived, but they've made it SO. MUCH. HARDER. Court of Stars... First boss has that "jump to clear debuff" mechanic. Obviously if people don't, or you don't have MD, it's gonna be harder and that's obviously the individuals failing... But the 2nd/3rd bosses? If you stack on the 2nd boss there's less fire on the ground. If you don't stack, you'll probably still survive, but now its increasingly messy. 3rd boss (last boss) is the ultimate example. If you had the tank and melee stay still the whole fight, only move from the first line, and have the ranged/healer stand at the other end of that line... every single line would stack and there'd be all the room in the world. Of course that almost never happens [at least in average keys] and so you end up with lines all over the map. So, so, so much harder. Same thing for uldaman. First 2 bosses are usually handled fine, but the 3rd boss (Lizard with stun orbs)... all it takes is one person to walk into a stun at the wrong time and chances are you've wiped... if you don't wipe, you're making it so much harder to heal. 4th boss (embertron) again, sooo much harder if people don't group up to kill the adds. Most pugs seem to end up in different sections during the intermission which just makes it more difficult, and often results in death from lack of healing or death from the healer trying to get close enough to drop a heal on someone who's STILL RUNNING AWAY, TOWARDS THE DEATH BEAM??!? And the last boss, holy shit. The difference between groups that stack up for all the circles, and can therefore completely ignore soaking, and groups that have some ranged DPS standing where you'd move to next dropping crap on the ground and filling the entire room [hyperbole] before the first rewind make it SO MUCH HARDER. Haven't finished the video at time of posting, but my #1 would either be Tol Dagor... because it was broken af and pulling mobs through the walls/floors is itself enough reason for it to have the #1 spot... Or Mists of Tirna Scythe, not because of any mechanics (although I have my issues there, too), not because of the last boss which... ew. Simply because of the nightfae. "Are we having fun?" No, no we're not, and you're not helping, stupid fairy. The Jailer tearing their wings off would've made him the best character of all time, from being [one of] the worst.

casual andy that no longer plays here, heard "this might be one of the worst m+ bosses of all time" idk, 10+ times this video... worst m+ bosses video would be interesting even if its way shorter. The depth you can go into discussion wise on a boss alone as opposed to a whole dungeon might be interesting

I think getting the boys together to discuss the best and worst spec designs throughout the years from your perspectives would be interesting. Like I personally loved Arms warrior at the end of WoD. Just throw rend on your target and spam infinite mortal strikes. Lol.

I would like to defend Rise for a hot minute here. That area before 3rd boss was very dependant on your healer, and whenever I'd feel it, i'd just tell my tanks to get those packs in one go and let my big CDs loose just to see healer number go up. Moments where healers can use CDs to see healer number go up rather then healing a lot of oneshotty spot damages are always great

gotta say, i think neltharus is even worse to play in season 4 than it was first time around. removing the instakill chains and making that side of dungeon harder at the same time just makes it unfun

@brice9013

Ай бұрын

I kinda like neltharus lol

on neltharions lair, i just really loved spell reflecting the last bosses tank mechanic

6 out of 8 SL dungeons making it on these lists truly do be saying something about the awesomeness that was SL.

The respawn point thing has a really simple solution. When you release, you're a ghost and can run back to your body OR just talk to the spirit healer at the gy to respawn there instead. No penalty or anything, just an option in case you really don't want to have to run to your corpse. This would allow people to run back as a ghost and get rezzed along the way if the group is able to.

No Shrine of the Storms? Or Temple of Sethraliss?

Ok but where can i get that live wallpaper from?

I really liked Necrotic Wake and not because it was easier. It was actually just fun. Idk what Dratnos is on about the gauntlet being boring pulls, those were always the most fun pulls to me in there. I don't really know why but just the way they always played out everytime I played it. The tanks running around the room trying not to get more than 4 stacks from the Abominations... idk Necropolis area was a banger imo

yo, inky black potion shoutout, love that!!

Isn't Siege of Boralus in the 11.0 M+ rotation? I hope they fixed your guy's points then ^^'

Storm, Seat, Original HoV, and Siege are all piss and viniger. SmbG being on any list is ludicrous

Uldaman is a “perfect dungeon” candidate actually

Tol Dagor is the absolute worst M+ dungeon by far. 1) extremely buggy, 2) mandatory rogue, 3) buggy/broken affixes (sanguine and beguiling), 4) borked camera angles, 5) very unfun/overtuned bossfights (bosses 2 and 4 especially), 6) overly long, 7) overly difficult, 8) constant balance/mechanics yo-yo'ing (cannons being overpowered, then doing next to nothing, then being unusable, then being overpowered again, having to kill/not kill/ tank/not tank Howlis' brother), 9) "doubles" (aka double use of mechanics) on the last boss can destroy the entire run by one-shotting people.

Good to see that we'll be getting 2 of the top picks for Season 1 of TWW. I'm glad that Blizzard knows their audience pretty well

In general I agree with a lot of the points, but Seat not being in there is just absolute copium. It was a bizarrely terrible dungeon. Mobs were horrible with horribly annoying abilities, the bosses were just awful and in general, there's a reason most groups that did 20s often weren't able to reliably time a +17. Definitely some recency bias when it comes to this one, but other than that, I think the guys were pretty on point.

Just clicked to start watching, is it safe to assume at least 6, if not 8 are from Dragonflight? 😣😣

Instead of just putting together the scores, you can make a weighted average and add 0 for a dungeon that didnt made the list of one of you. This might prevent that single high picks make into the final list.

The way 2 of these dungeons mentioned are already locked in for next season :(

DUNGENOS

I would add temple of setralis and shrine of the storm on this list. I think my number 1 would be shrine of the storm and 2nd would be temple of setralis. And i actually didnt mind kings rest, shadowmoon, nelt lair. This is a perspective of a guy who does all keys on maximum loot capacity like 20 last season or 10 this season. No more, no less.

I think that Theater was kind of annoying, but I wasn't a pusher, and I did that with friends and guildies, so it was always fun to save CDs to blast against them. That did I can see why that boss would suck if you're pushing and you've gotta worry about timers.

yo dorki is on it court of stars is ASS CHEEKS

Spires of Ascension is like Halls of Valor without any of the parts of HoV that people actually liked

I think blizz is incapable of fixing hunter pets on last boss in siege so it can never be a good dungeon for me personally. I think they said they fixed it multiple times and it was always broken still

ayo where can i get that wallpaper???

Dorki and Greg are my two go to dudes in WoW.

love when these 4 get together to chat

Youve never put your d&d in a tree or chandelier because of the camera issues?

I am one of the few uldaman enjoyers, even on high keys, although I agree it is very nasty, gnarly and overly punishing But damn i love the mob pulls and the aesthetic of it, as well as the bosses except the last one

uldaman... i hated second boss.. as demonology i would send my felguard.. which would immediately stun him.., in necrotic wake they didnt repair it for whole expansion, that frost mage bis stuff and i think even some talents just didnt work

I like how you are showing a Sanguine/Quaking week for Grimrail, with the sleep zones. That shit was actual cancer.

where's Seat of triumviraids?

De Other Side will always be my least favorite M+ dungeon. Probably because I had to farm it so damn much for that stupid tank trinket.

I dont care if its a m0 do whatever thematic respawn points you want for the dungeon in m+ have one after every boss or make a a teleport from start of dungeon to every boss after you kill em its not a hard to think of this solution.. in m+ people care about the time since its timed content not thematics

I feel like worst M+ bosses could be an interesting conversation. Maybe limiting it to certain seasons if all M+ is too broad.

I can safely say I would not get along with dorki as a player of world of warcraft.

It's funny that i hated spires so much that i forgot about it until circle of stars trees came up at which point i immediately checked to see final rank and breathed a sigh of relief that it was there, absolutely the worst shit ever

I think Dratnos prob has the best list overall. I still don't agree with the hate Necrotic Wake gets though. It was a short, fun dungeon. Yes it was an easy loot pinata, but I don't think I ever had a bad time in there. Frankly, I was unironically PSYCHED to see it returning. But even among my friends, this seems to be a very hot take. I have similar feelings about SMBG. It was a really boring dungeon that did nothing, sure, but it was inoffensive outside of literally just Bonemaw, so I'd have a hard time putting it on my list. Definitely don't understand the lack of hatred for Uldaman. That dungeon sucks. The trash absolutely fucks you up for no reason, the bosses are all boring, and mostly overtuned. Emberon might be one of the worst dungeon bosses I have ever had to play. Also 100% despite being a short timer, by the time you're at Talondrus you're like "K. This dungeon can be over now; I'm tired of it. Why do I still have half the fucking dungeon to go?" VP is by far the dungeon I hate the most. That dungeon single-handedly cost me KSH that season b/c I was just like "welp, VP is killing my motivation to play the game and I am tired of depleting to it, so I'm not gonna bother going to get any of the other io I feel like I have on the table, b/c I still won't get there w/o at least 2 more key levels in VP." I was timing some 17-19 keys, and Tyran 16 VP is by FAR the hardest key I even attempted that season, and bricked it every time. DOS is a HUGE Dratnos W. Dungeon had potential but if you needed Encrypted for the dungeon to be good, the dungeon was just bad. Full stop. TOP and COS were both giga Dorki Ws though. I never liked Spires of Ascension, but not nearly bad enough to be my #1 most hated. I feel like that is a high key vs low key perspective though. Spires was hard and bad but it still felt reasonably fair. Whereas a lot of the dungeons on my list are just b/c they either didn't feel fair, or long overstayed their welcome. Grimrail was just terribad. I liked the last boss, but affixes just made life MISERY.

Hahaha the Dratnos take on Temple of the Jade Serpent, its so accurate

Lowkey as you guys go through these lists of 'worst' dungeons you should have talked through the 2-3 top changes you would make to the dungeon to make them not so bad. You guys have a lot of influence and reach and instead of just shitting all over Blizzards work you could make the list and provide the top 3 changes you feel would make them better. That way, as these dungeons get brought back in the future there is content where top players of the community have given their inputs.

Court of Stars was fun as an untimed dungeon, I hated it for M+.

Im so mad he fixed the typo

Unpopular opinion, Theater of Pain slapped, unpopular bc how many people were playing Pwar in SL : )

Yeah these videos are my fave. Don’t stop bb.

“ you could skip it if you had a demon hunter with a seesaw toy”

Spires is so bad... You had pulls you had to hard CC even at fairly low key levels just to prevent instant death to everyone. Sanguine depths during Sanguine week was the most toxic shit ever.

Growl is so dobby 😂

I'd love for a dungeon creator to be added to the game for MANY reasons. Hope we can start creating our own for-fun content to put our theories of what makes good content to the test.

@SalvLav

Ай бұрын

I doubt the wow engine would allow for that