It's known that this study was originally unsound (Black could force a draw), but it's been fixed by the composer. The published correction is to add a white pawn on c4. Then at 11:58, 11.Nc1+ does win because the extra passed pawn makes all the difference, e.g. 11...Ke4 12.Kb2 Bd8 13.Kxc2 Kxf5 14.Kb3 Kxe6 tablebase win. The main variation with all the underpromotions is not affected.

@fifiwoof1969

Жыл бұрын

That's SO sexy!

@lutimstrickshots9253

Жыл бұрын

Oooh that's awesome!

@emphyriohazzl1510

Жыл бұрын

@Rocky64 : I was going to post these infos but found out you had already beat me to it ;). Also the study stops after 12.e8=R! but Liburkin gave the continuation 12...Bg7 Re6 as an example (there are other moves which win, any move attacking the bishop but they're just losses of time ultimately as white does have to go through this continuation with the key move Rb1! when the pawn is on c4) : 13.Be6 Bd4 14.Re1 (Rd4 or Rd6 are again winning but just losing time) Bf6 15.Rb1! (15.Re6 just loses time again) Kd3+ 16.Rb2 and the ending is won (Liburkin still gives more moves, but they're no longer forced even though the idea stays the same: 16...Ke2 17.c5 Kd118.a4! (only move) c1Q+ 19.Nxc1 Kxc1 20.a3 Bxb2+ 21.Ka2 and the pawns are unstoppable (white could also have played for instance 17.a4, 18.a3 and 20.a5 or 20.Ka2 instead with still a won endgame). Also to be noted that black can't try to go to a3 with their king to attempt to exploit the pin and try to mate while taking some of the pawns : after 16.Rb2 Kxc4 17.a4 Kb4, there is 18.Nd4+! which unpins the rook with an easy win (same thing after 16.Rb1 Kxc4+ 17.Rb2 Kb5 18.Nd4+!) To finish, it migth be worth mentionning that 8.b7 is forced because after white gave their bishop, black now has gained access to the d4 square as an extra square on the long diagonal to threaten mate. So 8.Nf6? would allow 8...Be5 9.Nd7 Bd4! (not Bg7 or Bh8 10.f6!) 10.Nxd4 c1=Q# Edit : last thing, in the version without the pawn c4 that you showed, 8...Kd3 is indeed a cook, but the best attempt for white would be to keep their b pawn and their d8 knight and to play immediately 9.Nc1+. Then the following contiuation is forced : 9...Kd2! 10.Kb2 Be5+ 11.Kb3 Kxc1 12.Nc7!? Kb1! 13.b8Q c1Q 14.Ka4+ Ka1! and the c7 knight is lost and with queens on board, the white passed pawns don't compensate enough for the bishop to grant a win.

@arthurrtang9670

Жыл бұрын

Like how many puzzles mentioned here is going to have a flaw until it gets fixed because of missing a pawn or piece? Feels like two in a row.

@lutimstrickshots9253

Жыл бұрын

@@emphyriohazzl1510 Thanks for the info!

Wow amazing puzzle! I was screaming at my screen when he said that promoting to a queen was wrong and then I was left speechless when I saw the stalemate. Also the overall idea of having to promote 3 times into everything but a queen made this puzzle next level. Not even a hardcore chess fan but that was amazing.

@d.j7222

3 ай бұрын

Impressive that you had the intuition to know getting the queen was incorrect. I was thinking “if getting the queen is wrong then I’m okay being wrong.” After seeing the stalemate, I was not okay being wrong

The underpromotions are so satisfying lol but sadly that one black king move makes it a draw. It would be cool if white really wins the game cuz it's like an entire army is trying to stop a dangerous pawn and an assassin bishop😄 Because of this puzzle, I just remember an another chess puzzle that I saved in my files that has a similar situation to this one. The setup is: ⬜[WHITE]⬜ King -> a3 Rook -> f7 Bishop -> f1 and g1 Pawn -> b2, b7, d4, f6, and h7 ⬛[BLACK]⬛ King -> a5 Bishop -> b8 Pawn -> a4 and b3 It is white to play and win. Idk who composed that puzzle. It is just a puzzle I found on a FB page

@keymasta3260

Жыл бұрын

This position is mate in 35

@nicholasstantonshomeaccoun2291

Жыл бұрын

@@keymasta3260 Thanks I will test my grandma Frances

@williamd2999

Жыл бұрын

Just add more white pawns or have them better placed

@rasulrahimov744

Жыл бұрын

@@keymasta3260 how? I tried it vs stockfish it's not win, it's draw

@renerpho

Жыл бұрын

@@rasulrahimov744 Just add a pawn on c4.

5:53 Not sure why you didn’t mention that Black can play Bd4 here (If Nxd4, then c1=Q#). I think White’s only move then is Bf4 to defend c1 with a 2nd piece.

@ryanpaulmarcoux3813

Жыл бұрын

Nice spot, but it seems to be easily countered since black seems to be out of moves after white moves Bf4. I think this option may have been cut from discussion to save on the length of the video.

@Thelegendarian-

Жыл бұрын

@@ryanpaulmarcoux3813 then still white could move back Bg1 and and if black takes it's no more attacking that diagonal, and if not then bishop with take it on d4

@ryanpaulmarcoux3813

Жыл бұрын

@THE LEGENDERIAN It's Black's turn after white goes to Bf4. Black would not want to play Bd4, in the first place, since after white goes Bf4 there is no good answer from Black.

@emilsadykhov123

6 ай бұрын

Yeah thats what I was thinking as well, if Bd4 then white can return back to Bg1 and repeat moves.

@ashwathbennatte7428

4 ай бұрын

If white go bg1 then black can take it from bd4 and come back to d4, so it can escape b8 diagonal ..isn't it?

Nelson, I'm very glad you enjoyed it and thought it interesting enough to present to your viewers. Cooked or not, I agree, it's a wonderful composition and you did a great job presenting it.

@synka5922

Жыл бұрын

too bad its a draw, even with the c4 pawn added in a later iteration from liburkin

@MrEdwardCollins

Жыл бұрын

@@synka5922 Actually, with the fix it's a win for White, as was intended.

@synka5922

Жыл бұрын

@@MrEdwardCollins after playing it a few times I found the win, but its extremely different and involves sac'ing the rook It turns to a normal endgame in fact

Now people can understand that less pieces on the board does not mean it’s necessarily simple. Sometimes they are more complicated than it looks on the surface.

7:38 Yesterday your puzzle featured every what if which led to every different promotion type possible.

It's been a minute since the last Mark Liburkin puzzle...😁😁 I can't get enough of puzzles where you can't queen a pawn because the octo-directional nature of queen moves can cut off so many potential escape squares for the enemy king and create stalemate positions. I felt like the easiest moves to figure out were Ne4+, b8(B) and e8(R), the latter 2 due to what I just mentioned in terms of queening a pawn leading to stalemate.

Great puzzle - the "flaw" somehow makes it even more beautiful.

@liamsun2543

Жыл бұрын

Unlike some other "flawed" puzzles shown on this channel, this one is easily fixable by just adding a white pawn on, say, h3.

@reubenmanzo2054

Жыл бұрын

@@liamsun2543 How does that extra pawn change anything?

@TheZombiesAreComing

6 ай бұрын

The flaw is that 7:15 Is by technicality a stalemate merely because black can't move without checkmating themselves when by all means they should lose

This was a fantastic analysis. Totally enjoyed it, thanks for sharing.

The ad appeared on my screen is litterally Rise of Kingdoms💀

@reubenmanzo2054

Жыл бұрын

That ad seems to be showing up a lot lately.

@Illuminex_XD

Жыл бұрын

Bro Just get YT premium

@chickennugget993

Жыл бұрын

@@Illuminex_XD paid Adblock? No thank you

@Illuminex_XD

Жыл бұрын

@@chickennugget993 Your problem I guess

@chickennugget993

Жыл бұрын

@@Illuminex_XD it’s not, because I have free Adblock kid

Those 3 under-promotions from the pawn to stop a stalement when you take the bishop, this puzzle was truly adequate

I've seen this puzzle before but I think white has a pawn on g2. That pawn is important for white to win a resulting queen and pawn endgame after Nc1+ Kd2 (Ke4 obviously loses in this version). For the version in the video, black can hold the endgame.

Been playing recreationally for 15+ years. I caught the first under promotion but the other two blew my mind. So many tricks with this one that I could not keep up. I know I’m no master but after this puzzle I’m super humbled and am laughing at myself for how tough this was. Excellent vid.

I quit chess a long time ago but there's just something about this channel that makes me wanna watch it even if I don't play chess anymore lol.

@endgamexpert

7 ай бұрын

There is a class of chess players called solvers that take composed studies and solve the (or “cook” them, if they are flawed). Might be worth checking into…

@rogergeyer9851

6 ай бұрын

It's a beautiful game whether you want to be a watcher, a player, a problem solver, or whatever. Between the geometry and the logic and the complexity with so few pieces and a small board size, I find it irresistable.

Quick question @ChessVibes, After the black Bishop moves after you play f3, what would happen if you play Bd3 check?

Under-promotion to knight itself is very, very rare. Under-promotion to rook and bishop is something which I have seen for the first time in my life.

@edipedipbulmaz

10 ай бұрын

Under promotion to rook is for less slatemates

Please remember that a game, perhaps the first one known with pawn underpromotion to bishop is Schallopp-Schottländer, Hamburg, 1885.

...Kd3 was pretty unfortunate, and pretty clever too. The point is that Black wastes a move with ...Be5 and ...Bxb8 which is 2 moves, so Black plays ...Kd3 first and Black directly takes ...Bxb8 from h2, which is also 2 moves, except Black plonked in an extra ...Kd3. Still, phenomenal study! This small king move doesn't make the study less beautiful! And I'm happy to report I got all the answers right when Nelson asked to pause the video (including the underpromotions!) Thanks for the amazing video Nelson!

I put the final position on SF when Black plays the correct Kd3 instead of Be5 and the brilliant underpromotions following that line. SF found a way for Black to hold and draw but it's a little crazy. White's best move would be 1. Nc1+ which Black responds with 1...Kd2. Line goes on with 2. Kb2 (and not 2. Nb3??, Kd1 and white is losing as Be5+ cannot be avoided), 2...Be5+ 3. Kb3, Kxc1 4. Nc7!, Kb1! (Both 4...Kd1 and 4...Bxc7 actually loses according to SF, I won't go into detail) 5. b8 = Q, c1 = Q 6. Ka4+, Ka1 and Black holds.

@Qoko88

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, this line indeed. It gives White winning chances but it isn't actually winning.

@HeathHunter

3 ай бұрын

Yes just found this with SF so I am not the only one ;)

After all those moves where you promoted to something to always be able to take the black bishop I was led to the wrong (I think) train of thoughts. I thought the right move was to move the white knight to F6 so that if the bishop moves to E5 I simply move the knight to D7 makning the bishop move to G7 or H8, but then I saw that D4 was an option too. Oh well! That's why I'm not the one making the puzzles 🤭

5:18 THERE ARE LIKE 8 DIFFRENT TIMES YOU COULD DO BISHOP TO D4 AND IT WOULD BE BENIFITAL.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Bd4 Bxd4 If your idea is to take with the knight, then black just promotes with a checkmate.

@fifiwoof1969

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta I'm thinking Bd4 too but by black ie. right after Bh2 - why is that not better than leaving the diagonal to capture White's bishop?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

@@fifiwoof1969 White responds with Bf4, preventing promotion.

@fifiwoof1969

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta so if after that black play Kd3 is that not checkmate? Nah, forgot Nxd4 and either the knight or bishop capture the pawn or promoted piece next move and white wins with remaining material.

Thats one of the most incredible things I have ever seen. Thanks for sharing with a 849 🙏🏻 Love the underpromoting and the stalemate forcing. Will integrate these going forward.

Very cool setup. Wow! What if in the beginning position you have an extra white pawn on e2? It never moves but would remove the option of d3 for the black king at the end of the game. I haven't fully analyzed the situation. But perhaps it would be an elegant solution to the imperfection of the setup.

@danielyuan9862

Жыл бұрын

Honestly the white pawn can be in a lot of squares and it probably counters Kd3, because the line after Kd3 is simply a positional variation rather than a tactical one.

The study 8/3PP3/8/P6p/b6p/6kP/2P2p2/5B1K by Ernest Pogosyants also features underpromotions to knight, bishop, and rook (unless IT'S flawed, too ...) via: Andy Soltis, Chess To Enjoy

Hey, Mr. Vibes (I was going to nickname you CV, but that sounds too much like work). Just a quick thank you, and I am sure I am not alone in that sentiment. I have some issues with anxiety and depression that can occasionally get pretty severe. Staring at puzzles with you and the other subscribers on your channel helps me get through the bad days, so again, thanks. Good things happen in ways we don't always expect, keep it up.

@user-ks6ft5ut4z

Жыл бұрын

Cheer up. It's not all so bad. Did you try to go to church?

@edipedipbulmaz

10 ай бұрын

​@@user-ks6ft5ut4zmaybe hes not Christian?

at 11:00 Nc2+ Ke4 Nf6+ Kf5 Nd7 and after the promotion white wins with the extra knight and 2 pawnes if at 11:00 Nc2+ Kd2 Kb4 Be5+ Kb3 Kc1 Nc7! if bishop takes then e7 or even if he allows promotion on b8 , in both cases both sides get queens which get traded and the position is winning.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Neither of the knights can go to c2 from that position. Nc1 Kd2 line is also a draw, not a win for white. Neither of the kings can go to b4, either, from where they are. And queens do not get traded under optimal play.

At 11:00 if you move Nc1 check, then it opens up some options. If he moves the king back, then you can do the b8 move. If he moves Kd2, then it gets complicated. It allows white king to escape and both sides can eventually get their queens back. White by doing Nd6, then e7, e8. This after Kb3 and white loses the knight on c1. I didn't fully play it out after that, so black may have a perpetual check with eventual mate.

@chariotrequiem9030

Жыл бұрын

You didn't even consider black's moves

@chariotrequiem9030

Жыл бұрын

B8 doesn't do anything as the bishop can just ignore it and go straight for the checkmate

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

In the end, the line Nc1+ Kd2 Is a draw. It is also the best outcome for white from the position at 11:00

I have a question. At 5:45 why couldn't you just move the bishop to d4 forcing it to be taken by the black bishop and then take it by the white knight? I'm still learning the intricates of chess so some advice would be helpful!

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

After knight takes, black promotes with checkmate

@Paul-sj5db

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta Good call. I didn't see that. It should definitely have been mentioned in the analysis though.

@Small_Schlonng_9000

10 ай бұрын

@@Paul-sj5dbno it shouldn’t

@user-ct7ix8nz1w

7 ай бұрын

After Bf4, black don't have any good moves

at 11:00: if the king moves on d3 right here, it doesn't look like you need to sacrifice b7 or e8. you can just Kc1. at 6:00 : can you explain to me why black can't ignore the bishop gift and simply do Bd4 ? I don't see any move white can do to block black from looping Bd4 - Be5

@BorisGamingChannel

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same

@maylene1945

Жыл бұрын

For 6:00, after Bd4, I think white can play Bf4, replacing white knight's job to protect c1 square. So, If black move the king and check with black bishop, white can simply take that bishop with knight without worrying c1 square. Correct me if I wrong

@andeol92

Жыл бұрын

@@maylene1945 indeed, didn't see that line, thx

@Axcille

Жыл бұрын

1st point that is the best move but still it leads to a draw 2nd point after Bd4 theres a good move Bf4 after black does Bxb6 and white does e7 its checkmate in a view turns

at time stamp 11:20 in that position White can play Nc1+ here. If black goes for the pawns with the king then White plays Nc7. Then Bishop takes Knight is met with pawn to e7 or king takes pawn is met with pawn b8=Q

The whole point of this is in the artistry and creativity to create a position that could allow for the unconventional theme of underpromoting every pawn.

What about Kf6 instead of the second bishop? That should give time to jump to Kd7 in time for the next check

@RJSRdg

Жыл бұрын

No, because black can play Be5+ straight away.

@voodoocado

Жыл бұрын

@@RJSRdg Not in the original variant where the black king is in the way of the check!

@joaopaulozalamenacorrealim2596

Жыл бұрын

Was thinking about that also

What about bishop d4

@Planet_Arcadia

10 ай бұрын

Brilliant idea I thought that too

@FustinJields

10 ай бұрын

Bf4! to cover the promotion square.

@FustinJields

10 ай бұрын

​@Masterpiece Not sure if you got a notification from my first reply so replying to you so you can see it.

@Planet_Arcadia

10 ай бұрын

​@@FustinJieldsok

@divyanshugupta5331

10 ай бұрын

That doesnt work here

That wasn’t necessarily the only way to not lose, keeping your bishop on G1 allowed it to block the black bishop if the kind moved, although it would’ve been a knight and bishop for just a bishop, you could’ve promoted to a queen. Kind of a risky trade but it works (I believe) (Edit:) I realized black would’ve promoted their pawn with mate in one, oops

From your requested position, the immediate Nc1+ gives white a winning advantage. If black goes for the Ke4 line, it loses by force, and if he goes for the recommended Kd2, the lines goes Kb2 .. Be5+. Kb3 .. Kxc1 then the brilliant Nc7. Following the top engine lines, both players get a queen, but if black makes a bad king move, white can force the queen trade and promote another queen to win the game. Fun analysis to look at

@lenalittle4193

Жыл бұрын

It ends with a draw, because white have no good checks when blacks king is on a1

You could've put bishop to d4

12:54 Why is Kb2 not an option here?

@shadowyzephyr

Жыл бұрын

it results in a win for black, black plays bishop back to e5, then according to SF white can't defend

This puzzle is amazing! Well done!

That black bishop got more action then i have in any chess game

f5 is not an only move Nd6 makes it so that the king cant move and you can just promote one of your pawns with no worries

@SosInChess

Жыл бұрын

Black king can still go to d3, so Nd6 is not working here

@bugkake

Жыл бұрын

Nd6 is mate in 3 ? lol

@6:29 You covered pawn moves, but what about Nf6 with Ng4 idea? You're just going to advance to f6 if black tries Be5 -> Bg7/Bh8 EXCEPT Bd4. The knight can't take the bishop and there's no other defense. A significant omission in the analysis, I think.

@lenalittle4193

Жыл бұрын

You gave yourself the answer why this doesn't work. Sometimes he miss ideas people could have, but i think it would be to much work and a to long video to cover every single move.

@PrometheanConsulting

Жыл бұрын

@@lenalittle4193 I agree with respect to "similar ideas" like all the different pawn moves. I just felt that this particular variation was an exception to the same idea that he illustrated before the bishop deflection to h2 and worth a call out that it would not work. And in comments, a large number of viewers also noted that idea and wanted to explore it. Nelson does a great job with these and I don't think constructive criticism diminishes his work. He's even made videos correcting himself when he feels the gap is egregious enough and I respect him for doing that. That's why I made the comment. To give him the choice :)

Intricate! At 6:07 instead of b7 white plays Nf6. If Be5 then Ng4 followed by f6 unless of course black plays Bd4. But then at least somebody wins!

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

If black goes Bd4, white seems to be out of good options.

@Nelson Lopez I think I have a solution: At 6:06 After black bishop takes white bishop, white has to play N f6, instead of P b7. (No need to go for premature promotions to bishop and rook) Then, if black plays B e5, white has to play N g4. Then if black plays B g7 or h8, White can block the black bishop by playing P f6. White wins subsequently. I request you to analyse further

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Nf6 Be5 Ng4 Bd4 If white takes with the knight on b3, then black promotes with checkmate. Nf6 is not a winning move.

@tangocthang8297

Жыл бұрын

When white plays N g4, black can play B d4. If white knight gets the black bishop, the black pawn will become queen and black will win. Otherwise, any other moves from white would lead to black king to d3 and win

Holy crap Batman, that was a tricky one.

@davidking4838

Жыл бұрын

Batman's reply is simply "Holy crap, Robin!".

At the part where you could promote to a knight you could have forked the king and bishop with your bishop

@Yatagarasu

Жыл бұрын

No, it won't work since black can just take white's bishop with their bishop, and the knight can't capture the bishop or it stops guarding the square where black's pawn can become a queen. If white doesn't capture black's bishop, black can just move their king, forcing white to capture black's bishop, which then allows black to promote the pawn to a queen, resulting in checkmate.

So I've played out this setup using SF, and it seems that if white plays to perfection, it changes to a draw of repetition if black goes Kd3 at 11:02.

Very good pedagogic show. Learned a lot from this, thank you !

Bei 12:00 geht der schwarze König nach d2. Bei erneutem Schach durch den Springer schwarzer König nach d1. Kein weiteres Schach möglich und egal was weiß zieht, schwarzer Läufer oder Bauer zur Dame setzt Matt.

Early on in the puzzle, after Bxh2, the suggested move is b7. However, what about Nf6 instead? If Be5 then Ng4 threatens bishop, and if bishop retreats on diagonal then f6. On the other hand, after Nf6 if Kd6 then Ng4 still works! Am I missing something?

@spacedragon2753

2 ай бұрын

If Be5 and Ng4, black plays Bd4 and you can't stop mate

Extremely easy puzzle initially, I saw the sequence immediately. I normally need to think with puzzles. Although the knight promotion was tricky, then it got not so clear. Underpromotions galore. Good stuff.

6:05 Bishop To D4 Knight Is Blocking Also Worked, Forces Bishop Trade

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

In case of a bishop trade, black promotes with a checkmate

I let Stockfish 15.1 run this study for few minutes up to a depth of 65 and it considers it a draw so I believe there is nothing to do.

Fascinating puzzle! I've never seen a position with so many underpromotions.

Moral of Story: Never push your King to the edge or corner of the board.😂

Crazy.. Thanks for sharing it.

i let stockfish run the puzzle from the starting position, and on depth 44, the mainline after Kd3 is NOT nc1+ but b8=B, bxb8, nc7, nxc7 and only then Nc1+, and white is up +2.48 after playing the top lines out from stockfish, this is a draw

At 5:50, what's to stop Black from moving Bd4 instead of Bxh2 and forcing a draw by repetition just shuffling the bishop between d4 and e5?

@antarath517

3 ай бұрын

After Bd4, Bf4 adds a second guard to the queening square, and black has no more tactics.

@JaneSmith-gk9xi

3 ай бұрын

Thanks! @@antarath517

6:11 i cant play for black that well, but does knight to f6, bishop to e5, knight to d7 work? Its a turn before your challenge though, but it blocks/stops the bishop from being active and lets you push the pawn on e6 forward.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

'but does knight to f6, bishop to e5, knight to d7 work' No. Black bishop just goes to d4.

@KillerIntent1

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta had a feeling it wouldn’t, just forgot the other knight couldnt help

6:53 what is with knight blocks the attack, bishop takes, queen blocks the attack and moves to b2?

@felix7771

Жыл бұрын

Then the pawn will promote to a queen or rook and the white queen can't capture because it is pinned - so checkmate

@Pankaw

Жыл бұрын

If knight blocks bishop's attack, then it stops guarding c1, so black promotes to queen or rook with checkmate

sir black cannot even make draw in the "drawn position as we saw" if we add just 1white passedpawn as part of composition (maybe on h6 or in a6) and therefore the puzzle is still works!

Quite amazing love you the way you explain every move

Well, in the end, what White can do is do the move Knight to c1 check. That way, it force black 2 option. If he go king d2 then we play King to b2, getting out of there while protecting our knight. If he King c3, then we do the exact same plan than before for the win

@chariotrequiem9030

Жыл бұрын

The same plan as in Nc7? Pretty sure the bishop can ignore that knight and just go back to it's original place

After Nc1, Ke4 doesn't help black because of Nd6+ which clears the path for the e-pawn with tempo, allowing Kb2. Black now only has time to capture the f-pawn before e7 forces the bishop off the diagonal that was preventing b8=Q. Stockfish, however, offers Kd2 instead, which seems to be an interesting line in it's own right...

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

'After Nc1, Ke4' Why would black go Ke4?

@FraggleH

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta That's the example he used @12:00 to demonstrate that it's a drawn position. Granted the position was slightly altered from the final position the video ended with, so maybe he wasn't trying to imply that would be the response to Nc1, but that's how I viewed it at the time.

@jonathanmarcellinoalansage3208

Жыл бұрын

D2*

Excellent study, great presentation style 😊

In my engine, Ke4 „going after the pawns“ is a win for White, after Kb2, Kxf5 with Nc7! White will promote either the b- or e-pawn. But 9...Kd2 resolves into a complicated Queen endgame. I don’t have tablebases to tell the result. But this is not an easy win, and surely not a good end for this puzzle.

11:00 what if you play knight to c1? Edit: black wont go there with his king in the "fixed" version - and that version is draw by repition due to bishop d4 - g7 being repeatable

I like that this solution involves all three possible under-promos

The obvious bait move is to promote the queen. First you need to attack the King with Knight to E4. Black King moves to D3, White King to B2. Note, if Black King goes to D4 instead, then the same move kills the Black Pawn/Queen But that is as far as I can get.

1. Nc1+, Ke4 2. Kb2, Kf5 3. Ng7+ Kf3 4. e7 Ke7 5. Nf5+ and from that point you can maneuver around into a check mate, if at any time that bishop leaves to check the king you just take the pawn and with two knights you can walk your pawns up the side. It’s a win for white. Edit: I’ve played it out 5 different ways and white always wins if they don’t blunder

@RJSRdg

Жыл бұрын

But why would black play Ke4? Kd2 would be better.

@yourfather8041

Жыл бұрын

@@RJSRdg because now I get to run my pawns up the board without opposition

@jonathanwork7070

Жыл бұрын

Kd2 draws for black after Nc1+. The line goes 2. Kb2 Be5+ 3. Kb3 Kxc1 4. Nc7 Kb1 5. b8=Q c1=Q 6. Ka4+ Ka1. 7. Regardless of what white plays here there is perpetual check

Someone help me understand; after the second promotion on b8, what if instead of Kc4 the Black Bishop captures the promoted piece on b8, how does white escape checkmate?? I don't see anything stopping the Bishop from returning to e5.

Once the pawn on f2 moves up, bishop can block check on d4. King cant take bc of night. Forces the bishop off the file. White can push pawns

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Blunders the white bishop. Black takes with their bishop. Knight can't take, as that means black promotes with checkmate.

7:18 technically that’s not the definition of a stalemate. The definition is that a player has no legal move to make.

@spacedragon2753

2 ай бұрын

That's wrong. By your definition, a standard checkmate would be a stalemate, because there would also not be any legal moves. The correct definition for stalemate is that there are no more legal moves AND the king isn't in check

0:46 There is obviously only one move that will stop the pawn from being promoted on Black's next move.

Instead of moving pawn on b file after our sac bishop on h2 we can move the knight f6 then e7 next move guarding f5e6

@spacedragon2753

2 ай бұрын

After Nf6, black plays Be5 threatening mate, and if you play Ng4, then black plays Bd4 and you can't stop the mate

12:00 what is the problem in kd2 for black? isn't it a draw or win for black since the bishop is guarding the b pawn?

@MrEdwardCollins

Жыл бұрын

At that point (12:00) in the video there is no more b pawn. But either way, if Kd2 for Black, White wins. 1...Kd2 2.Kb2 Be5+ 3.Kb3 Kxc1 4.e7 Kb1 5.e8=Q c1=Q 6.Qxe5 and White has an easy win.

@DataMetrics

Жыл бұрын

@@MrEdwardCollins What if instead: 1...Kd2 2.Kb2 Be5+ 3.Kb3 Bf6? Stops e7 while maintaining pressure on the knight on c1.

@MrEdwardCollins

Жыл бұрын

@@DataMetrics Hmmm... not sure exactly which line (from the main line) you're referring to... but the goal now is to find a win for White. It's already been determined that Black can draw. We are now trying to prove otherwise. I believe this is the main line of the composition with the improved 8... Kd3. 1.Ne4+ Kd3 2.Nc5+ Kc3 3.Nb3 Be5 4.f4 Bg7 5.e8=N Bh8 6.f5 Be5 7.Bh2 Bxh2 8.b7 Kd3! 9.b8=B Bxb8 10.Nc7 Bxc7 11.Nc1+ Ke4! 12.Kb2 Bd8 So, the goal is to try to improve on any of these moves for White, and find a win.

11:27 If we directly play Knight to c1 instead of sacrificing another knight it would have been an easy win for white

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

It's a draw. Not a win for white.

@arunendra.

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta Just how we will have an extra knight which will help in promoting both pawns

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

@@arunendra. Nc1 still leads to a knight sacrifice, and, later, a draw.

Hi @Chess Vibes, after f4 at 3:49: - Black can go c1+ -> Queen (check) - White goes Nxc1 - Black can go Kc2+ (checkmate by Bishop at e5). Am I right?

@Rocky64

Жыл бұрын

No, ...Kc2+ fxe5.

@nguyenthienminh5590

Жыл бұрын

@@Rocky64 ah, I see. Thanks

At 6:16 when Bh2, I don’t know why you haven’t considered this Nf6, Be5, Ng4. This knight now controls e5 and f6 squares so black has to play Bg7 or Bh8 which white can cut off by pawn to f6. Please see this line of attack for white and share your comments.

@dineshmohanraj6144

7 ай бұрын

This line is simple and doesn’t need any other under promotions

@peteneville698

6 ай бұрын

What about black's Bd4?

@dineshmohanraj6144

5 ай бұрын

@@peteneville698 Same threat still remains even after under promoting to Bishop. Going by the solution provided in this video at 7:39 after under promoting to Bishop, black Bd4, Ba7, Bxa7. This is a winning option for black.

@FeruccioBilich

5 ай бұрын

you take with the other knight@@peteneville698

@FeruccioBilich

5 ай бұрын

The same thing I was wondering

At 13:15, if Kd3, then Kb2 allows Kc1 escape and Nd2 block or Nc5!. I don't know whether that is enough to win, however.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

... Kd3 Kb2 Be5+ Kc1 Kc3 After this, black threatens Bf4 checkmate.

@byronwatkins2565

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta I could stretch it a few moves, but you are basically right.

Amazzing puzzles . in the query at last , can't we just do Nc1 check and then wherever king moves we have Kb2 escaping the mating net ? and then we play Nc7 can push e7 then both pawns can't be stopped and we get queen first and win

At 6:15 is knight f6 not viable? To then move G4 to prevent rhe bishop checkmate?

Super puzzle. Thanks.

In the last example instead of the black king going for the pawns, why doesn't he go for d2 instead? This would put pressure on the knight? The white king MUST move to b2 or get checkmated as moving the e pawn would be too slow. After the check the king would have to move out of the way to b2. Next the bishop can move to F6 blocking the pawns advances. Not sure after this though.

12:48 maybe if we don't play pawn to b7 but knight to f6, then the king moves to d3, and then we put our knight on g4, we actually guard e5 so the bishop can't go there.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Then, instead of Kd3, black goes Be5. After Ng4 black responds with Bd4, leaving white with no good followup.

@user-ct7ix8nz1w

7 ай бұрын

After Nf6 instead of b7, white easily lose after Be5

Instead of trying to promote to bishop on b after Bxh8, you should go kf6, then when bishop back to e5, kg4 attacks It, and the only way to keep the check threat going would be to Go back to f7 or h8, whickever you could block by putting a pawn on g6, protected by the Knight, which basically invalidates the bishop check. By then theres no threat and you get time to promote the pawns on b and e and get to a winning position

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

'you should go kf6' There is no position in the game where either of the kings can go to f6, so I assume you meant 'Nf6'. Nf6 Be5 Ng4 Bd4 (an option that you have just ignored in your analysis) If white takes with the knight on b3, then black just promotes with checkmate.

Incredible! Amazing!

At 6:10 what's wrong with Nf6? On Be5 we continue with Ng4 forcing bishop to retreat. If black decide to leave bishop on main diagonal (only two unattacked cells towards the corner), we trap it there by f6.

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

'On Be5 we continue with Ng4 forcing bishop to retreat' Bd4 neutralises the threat.

@artursruseckis4242

Жыл бұрын

@@thetaomegatheta Oh, I forgot that Knight on b3 serves an important mission 🤦‍♂

6:00 why would black NOT play ...Bd4 to stay on diagonal. White's knight on b3 can't capture because it's needed to guard c1 from ...c1=Q#. Right?

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

Almost. White goes Bf4 to prevent promotion.

What an incredible puzzle (even if it did prove to be flawed). How did people come up with stuff like this in the 1930s before we had computers?

4:40 you can play bishop to d4 because than you will trade and go to the pawn

@thetaomegatheta

Жыл бұрын

If you take black bishop with your knight, then black just promotes with a checkmate

5:59 When the black bishop is at e5, what is wrong with move Nd4 instead of Bf2

What about, instead of p-b7, n-f6? Then n-g4 controlling e5, d4, and f6

So once white moves its bishop to h2 @ 5:56 what is to stop black from bd4? White can't take with the knight because it is busy guarding c1? All white can do is move its bishop back to g1, and black can perpetual to stalemate? Remember that when the puzzle says white to play and win, all black has to do is force a draw to ruin the puzzle.

At 6:15, why doesn't Nf6 work? If black responds Be5, you have Ng4 and now you're got the diagonal covered. Just promote either the b or e pawn and win.

@AnOn-gg4ei

Жыл бұрын

Nf6? Be5, Ng4 Bd4, Nxd4 c1=Q mate.

@doktarr

Жыл бұрын

@@AnOn-gg4ei Ah yes, the knight is overloaded. Thank you.

Wow this puzzle is amazing 😮

After the black move to kc3, white move should be kb2 and i think white will win from this position.

They are Two Option for White 1. Nb3 2. Nd3

real good cool solution. i enjoyed this immensely

what about king b2, then c1, then knight d2? Doesn't this escape the trap? Please review