“Well I’m choosing not to look at that part”- ladies and gents American history

@BlueHen123

5 жыл бұрын

It's human history. How about blacks ignoring that the ones who enslaved them first were other africans?

@milesblue638

5 жыл бұрын

The ability to choose your reality without personal consequences: White privilege personified.

@milesblue638

5 жыл бұрын

@@BlueHen123 How about whites not acknowledging that the institution of chattel slavery as perpetrated by western powers was unique and much more far reaching than the conquering and subjugation of warring tribes? How about acknowledging the legacy rather than finding ways to excuse it?

@bdmenne

5 жыл бұрын

She is so comfortable being tainted with the PC mob, so much so she now doesn't want the discomfort/pain of admitting she had been duped.

@gabyflores9412

5 жыл бұрын

Thisn is the problem

"It's like jewish people playing Hitler" Taika Waititi just entered the chat

@padaschaffner2526

3 жыл бұрын

Hamilton isn’t exactly a satire

@SublimeMind

3 жыл бұрын

Mel Brooks entered the chat first

@bananasandnuts132

3 жыл бұрын

Taika is a kiwi... Hes from new zealand.

@user-hb4zz4gh5e

3 жыл бұрын

Bananas and Nuts Yes, but he’s also Jewish

@JohnLemieux

3 жыл бұрын

The difference is that LMM wasn't roasting Hamilton by playing him.

I think people here don't realize that this isn't just some old man talking here. This guy is a celebrated poet and novelist not some guy on the street. The guy was a professor at Berkeley for 35 years. Edit: the guy was born black and has been thru his works promoted and fought for the black community for longer than Lin Manuel has been alive. You gotta put yourself in his shoes too.

@smoothblink

3 жыл бұрын

Heartily agree. I may not 100% agree with all of his points, but the man deserves SO much more respect than a video referring to him as just some guy who hates Hamilton. I didn't even know about him before the whole "Haunting of LMM" thing, it's a shame.

@BlakeGeometrio

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@JLo83

3 жыл бұрын

I mean.....I get all that, but I still see it as him hating on another writer/artist for creatively using historical characters to employ and boost the careers of dozens of minority singers/actors. Anyone who goes to see Hamilton expecting it to be entirely historically accurate is in the wrong place to be getting their historical perspective. Hence, my theory that this guy is just hatin' on Miranda a bit too hard.

@jakewright1932

3 жыл бұрын

@@smoothblink 0:53 "Ishmael Reed is a poet, novelist, and macarthur genius."

@jasonflay8818

3 жыл бұрын

@@jakewright1932 right there, for those who know being a McArthur grant recipient is an automatic qualifier of this man's credentials. It isn't nicknamed the genius grant for nothing. That said, he has absolute valid points, however, this is a play, this isn't a lecture.

“This guy” is acclaimed historian and writer Ishmael Reed. This is the best title you could come up with for this video?

@therachelfarnsworth

3 жыл бұрын

Vice always has the worst clickbaity sensationalist titles for their videos. There was one about a young man who had an eating disorder caused by PTSD and it was titled something like "this guy has only eaten mac and cheese for 20 years". So awful. 😔

@MrPepelongstockings

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, becuase nobody knows him and he obviously isn't as acclaimed to the world as he is to you, personally.

@jenniferbryant31

3 жыл бұрын

MrPepelongstockings he’s literally a Macarthur Genius Grant recipient. Just because YOU don’t know him doesn’t mean he’s not acclaimed.

@Abbot3663

3 жыл бұрын

Well, they explained who he was in the video so

@ploopplaap3436

3 жыл бұрын

Something I learned in my high school AV.class was not to put any names in the tagline of an opening (in this case a KZread title) because it perks people’s interest with a “who? Who?” sort of reaction.

I was waiting for this....and that Beyonce moment was cringeworthy...

@omninulla9472

5 жыл бұрын

In the guides defense, the journalist was also tho only young person there. Maybe that's why he assumed he would know?

@CasterOilCamerata88

5 жыл бұрын

@@omninulla9472 the asian girl seemed about the same age

@junebugg9259

5 жыл бұрын

Not really but completely expected. Not surprised at all.

@haileymorris6825

5 жыл бұрын

Lol that Beyoncé moment tho!

@mateomagnus8482

5 жыл бұрын

No ill intent but yes it was cringe along with the “Lynch mob er pitch fork” comment

Dexter was so uncomfortable in that whole tour group omg his face when the man said "I'll be there with the lynch mob"

@Social_Pugatory

5 жыл бұрын

LeninLover69 that was cringe 9000

@jimmy3546

5 жыл бұрын

it’s just a saying :/

@bdmenne

5 жыл бұрын

As if blacks owned the Lynch rope throughout history.

@PresidentialWinner

5 жыл бұрын

That moment was funny, not awkward. It was funny because everyone uses that expression and he said it while talking with a black man and while talking about slavery and such.

@cole1714

5 жыл бұрын

you can see him gritting his teeth when that happens lmfao

While this guy's point is valid, the video missed a crucial part of the musical. Hamilton is meant to be told through Hamilton's perspective. It's the reason why Jefferson is extremely cocky and why Madison doesn't appear to be anywhere close to the genius that he was. But to say that an eleven Tony Award winning musical is worse than an 8th grade pageant (1:47) and that he has done more research than an award winning author and a creator who is praised for getting the facts correct COMBINED (1:43) is toeing the line of extreme narcissism, even more so because Chernow admits in his biography that Hamilton was a slave owner multiple times. Yes there are Americans that are going to completely overlook the bad side of this history because the music is catchy, but there are hundreds of other people that would gladly tell you that this musical and no musical based off of anything is 100% accurate (including myself). It's supposed to make Hamilton look amazing because Hamilton thought he was amazing. So to say that we are ignoring history because not everything can be put into a 2 hour show is ridiculous. Yes, the slaves that helped shape our nations history need a spotlight shown on them. But we shouldn't be personally attacking somebody because their show wasn't the one to do that.

@jimmymorlock2384

5 жыл бұрын

THIS

@TamannaDas

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this eloquent and balanced response. And if I remember correctly from Hamilton: An American Revolution, Lin-Manuel did write a third cabinet battle which was about Hamilton, Jefferson and Madison debating whether to end slavery, but it was cut because it went nowhere ultimately, as none of them ended it. The song can be found easily

@adotburr9318

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly, it’s very easy to take things out of context and just criticize small details of a piece of art outside of the bigger picture to fit your argument

@kitchen-knife-1

5 жыл бұрын

This guy probably didn't read Chernow's book if he missed the references made to Hamilton being a slave owners.

@maybebabyny

5 жыл бұрын

Its an interesting perspective but don't you assume Miranda framed the point of view of this musical because without it he would be exposed to this very criticism? I am in the minority on this when I saw it at the Public. It seemed to me a trite but energetic rendition without the spohistication of even 1776 for example. It reminded me of School House Rock with the added problem of Mirandas amateur acting. Also regardless of how its framed its a ludicrous history. One visit to Hamiltons grave will let you know that these swooning fans forgot the dramaturgical tidbit of point of view and regard Hamilton as the second coming of Jesus. Hamilton was essentially a monarchist for Gods Sake.

Seems weird to gloss over 1) just how prominent a figure Ishmael Reed is and 2) that Toni Morrison bankrolled his play because she also hated Hamilton

@KSmall109CAB

3 жыл бұрын

Indeed, Ishmael Reed is a literary genius in his own right. Some of his fiction writing warrants being developed into plays or movies. The title of this video would give one the impression that Reed is some ignorant wacko. He is far from that. His record as an author speaks for itself.

@Attmay

3 жыл бұрын

@@KSmall109CAB It's disgusting the way Vice tried to make him look like just some nobody who just got off the turnip truck.

@jakewright1932

3 жыл бұрын

@@Attmay 0:53 "Ishmael Reed is a poet, novelist, and macarthur genius."

@Misterpiccolo93

3 жыл бұрын

the goofy music they put behind Ishmael Reed's interview was so disrespectful!

@robertbrown4872

3 жыл бұрын

Cheers to Toni Morrison!!!

Ishmael Reed won a Macarthur GENIUS GRANT. They went over that real quick, but it's arguably the most prestigious award for intellectuals presented in the world. Irony of ironies - Lin Manuel Miranda is also a Macarthur Genius Grant award recipient.

@pickles8038

5 жыл бұрын

[Insert spiderman pointing at spiderman meme]

@ramseykeilani9569

4 жыл бұрын

I mean, there's a reason why there are guys like Stephen Hawking who have never received such a grant, and its not because LMM is smarter than Stephen Hawking. Groups like MacArthur or Mensa are... well, pretty much nonsense.

@wellesradio

4 жыл бұрын

Ramsey Keilani Oh boy. Where to start with your comment. First off, if you're comparing a MacArthur Fellowship to membership in MENSA, then you don't anything about either. MacArthur Grants are only awarded to American citizens. Hawking was British. The Grants have nothing to do with intelligence as reported on an IQ test. They are awarded for hard work in order to promote a promising career. Professor Hawking was the recipient of many fellowships and grants in lifetime. MENSA is not an award. It's a stupid club that Hawking once said was "for losers". Anyone can sign up to join Mensa and fake their way in. Mensa is NOTHING like receiving a MacArthur. The "Genius grant" is not real. It's just a nickname people have given to the grant. The MacArthur Fellows Program is far more selective than Mensa.

@ramseykeilani9569

4 жыл бұрын

@@wellesradio Fair enough. I only really knew anything about Mensa, and I assumed that the MacArthur fellowship was its rough equivalent. Also didn't realize that it was American-specific, so apologies on that point. I was aware that many random celebrities were members of Mensa, while many incredibly intelligent people were not. The whole idea of an exclusive club for incredibly clever people, or a certificate of being a genius, sounded like bullshit straight off the bat, but maybe the MacArthur program is more selective. This does beg the question: how do people apply for/gain membership the "genius grant"?

@simbahunter8894

3 жыл бұрын

You can't apply for a MacArthur Grant. The recipients have no idea about receiving it until they get the call. The MacArthur Foundation does extensive research and solicits opinions from people working in various fields.

Those two white fans were kind of scary with their “choosing not to look at that part”s and their lynch mobs.

@chloe2258

5 жыл бұрын

They're both old, and that one man just wanted to use a term for a mob. He realized his mistake.

@roltthehunter

5 жыл бұрын

@@chloe2258 I agree with you, people get hurt way too easy and really like to find reasons to be mad, no one is perfect this guy is clearly trying.

@Attmay

3 жыл бұрын

This is why I'd rather watch *Song of the South.* That's actually based on stories that originated from African folktales.

@tinyshawn1991

3 жыл бұрын

Ikr, they dont bat an eye at racism probably

@suraiyas2035

3 жыл бұрын

They remind me of get out

There is no part of Hamilton that is worshipping Alexander Hamilton as a role model nor is a major focus of the musical to paint him as something he wasn’t, an abolitionist. If anything it’s John Laurens who in the musical and in real life devoted himself to fighting for the rights of blacks. In terms of Alexander Hamilton, the play depicts his relentless devotion to make a legacy for himself as an immigrant orphan despite the odds.

@johnreese5739

5 жыл бұрын

they do kinda include the part about him cheating on his wife

@rachelmeltzer4886

5 жыл бұрын

THANK YOU. Hamilton barely touches on slavery. That's not the point of the musical at all.

@Black_pearl_adrift

5 жыл бұрын

@@rachelmeltzer4886 But that's kind of the point. Hamilton utilises the appeal of mainly black cast, its odd to utilise the image of black people withought mentioning their history.

@adotburr9318

5 жыл бұрын

kof cuf It does mention their history though. Hamilton’s character spends all of Cabinet Battle #1 calling out Jefferson for being a slaver: “hey neighbor, your debts are paid because you don’t pay for labor”. To me, the play Hamilton is accurate in showing that Alexander Hamilton wasn’t an abolitionist but did call out the injustices of slavery when it happened to benefit him, which rings true with the real Alexander Hamilton of our history. He wasn’t firm on his anti-slavery stance but he was obsessed with elevating the legacy he left behind and he would use anything as a tool to do so.

@Black_pearl_adrift

5 жыл бұрын

@@adotburr9318 but thats tangential. Its small mentions here and there. The issue most people have is that in production that prides its black cast, the story they provide does not represents any black characters or their stories.

“All black cast in Hamilton” This makes me confused....the cast is pretty diverse if you ask me

@3lizabethrose

5 жыл бұрын

RiRi Mars yes when I saw it Asians played Eliza Washington and Peggy, not to mention the Latino Hamilton

@mothbyte98

4 жыл бұрын

Likely because Ishmael Reed is a Black author concerned about Black issues. Not saying he can't write about issues affecting other PoC, I'm just going off his résumé.

@viceonafridaynight

3 жыл бұрын

That's the problem. It's not correct. There shouldn't really be people of colour or women in a play about Hamilton because that is simply not how history works. You can't change history.

@adeepseafish1238

3 жыл бұрын

that guy Noah J bruh it’s not changing history. No one is going to think Washington was really black. Plus, we don’t need another musical featuring an all-white cast, Broadway has enough of those.

@adeepseafish1238

3 жыл бұрын

that guy Noah J it’s not “not correct”, it’s correct. The musical is supposed to reflect on modern day, that’s literally the entire point

3:40 “I’ll be there with a lynch mob” Whoa, hold on there buddy

@thedigga1829

5 жыл бұрын

Alexandru Tiberiu 😂😂😂😂

@ezpic2

5 жыл бұрын

Said it all...

@bwebb90

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah holy moly

@nlb1138

5 жыл бұрын

CRINGE

@dantechilds9866

5 жыл бұрын

Smh

Would love to see Miranda’s response to this.

@user-um6ye8jh3z

5 жыл бұрын

HELL YES

@yeseniabarajas6330

5 жыл бұрын

Ditto!

@4dultw1thj0b

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I don't think he's ever going to directly acknowledge criticism of his show now unfortunately. He's become practically a sacred cow to the entertainment industry. It would take something huge to get past all the money and sycophants and get through to him.

@Maximillionaire666

5 жыл бұрын

@AlwaysGonnaSing I think that's interesting, it's definitely true that everyone is singing his praises but he himself seems like a very genuine down-to-earth person so I'd hope that if he were confronted on the issue he would try and respond in some way. As a Latino American I would also assume that his understanding of racism and prejudice isn't as naive as if he were a white guy writing the show. I think it'd also be interesting to pose this same question to the actors like Daveed Diggs or Leslie Odom Jr. who performed in Hamilton as opposed to just asking white fans of the show in order to prove a point about white guilt.

@adotburr9318

5 жыл бұрын

Max Marriott that’s a good point, I would also like to hear their perspectives. Also from another perspective, Hamilton has given opportunities to so many talented LatinX and black actors and actresses because of the intentional diverse casting. Even that in itself is a very positive thing.

I would have an issue with "Hamilton" if it were trying to be 100% historically accurate. But nobody is making that claim. Its creator, Lin-Manuel Miranda, is not making that claim. "Hamilton" is a piece of art that tackles universal themes such as rising above our circumstances, the perils of pride and the obsession of leaving a legacy. That's why the play is a hit. Because whether you're from Puerto Rico, US mainland, Britain, Spain, Australia, these are universal themes.

@adotburr9318

5 жыл бұрын

Frances Zapata well said

@zippers987

5 жыл бұрын

universal themes of freedom held by people who held slaves?

@perhaps1094

5 жыл бұрын

@Godless X Every country has a dark past but OP was talking about the people of those countries. Im pretty sure presidents and prime ministers of the countries that OP lists havent watched hamilton.

@sabrafitzgerald4007

5 жыл бұрын

They never said one of the themes was freedom so ???

@sabrafitzgerald4007

5 жыл бұрын

But does that responsibility fall on the creator? Miranda simply casted actors that portrayed characters the best.

I like Hamilton the musical and I can also agree that it is historically inaccurate and problematic. You can feel more than one thing at once.

@graceelizabeth130

5 жыл бұрын

yeah me too. i think i just enjoy it without taking it as facts but a lot of the audience, especially maybe the American audience who wants to believe in the american dream, believes that it’s 100% historically accurate.

@c-light7624

5 жыл бұрын

You’re the only one I’ve seen so far in the comments section capable of having more than one perspective. Most people want to dismiss slavery not being addressed in the musical by saying, “it’s entertainment”, “it’s a 2 hour show”, “it can’t be 100% accurate”. When you see responses like that, you understand why Americans will never evolve on race issues.

@mms8719

5 жыл бұрын

C-light we respond like that because acknowledging slavery in this musical if anything would just be like “yeah that happened” more than anything. It’s not gonna make some revolutionary statement ( pun not intended ) if they did or if they didn’t. We know the musical isn’t 100% accurate, and we didn’t really expect it to be because of the perspective it’s told from and the fact that it’s a piece of entertainment/media

@amybess

4 жыл бұрын

@@c-light7624 slavery was addressed in the musical

@Stoney-Jacksman

3 жыл бұрын

Said every rapist in love ever.

“I’ll be there with the lynch mob.. oop!” DEAD lmao made me like the video

@alexn.2901

5 жыл бұрын

I laughed so goddam hard.

@D13GOR

5 жыл бұрын

I have never felt such second hand embarrassment in my life

@MariahBunni

5 жыл бұрын

The fact that he caught himself had me weak

@chrise-bay2286

5 жыл бұрын

That f***** up the whole point of his interview 😂😂

@Oscarhewittfilm

5 жыл бұрын

"lynch mob.. Oo, sh*t, jesus" 😂

This guy: I used Hamilton to destroy Hamilton

@pickles8038

5 жыл бұрын

Artistic problems require artistic solutions

@randyspicklejar

3 жыл бұрын

LMAO I'M DEAD

"this guy" i love how black people get 'this guy' can't even name his title or anything?

@BlakeGeometrio

3 жыл бұрын

Ikr?

@user-ek6yf6cf1o

3 жыл бұрын

he was introduced and given his title just like any other person interviewed by vice. He was singled out because he doesn’t like hamilton not because he’s black

@EzequielizedOdyssey

3 жыл бұрын

Hahahahahahaha

@senoc0926

3 жыл бұрын

I sort of just forgot his name by mistake.. oops.

I would argue there is a subtle discussion of slavery in the play. Laurens is the only character who has abolition as his top priority. Hamilton may have been supportive of Laurens, but Hamilton never intended to end slavery as one of his ambitions. Hamilton ultimately cared more about securing his own legacy by gaining as much power as possible. Laurens' death to me is symbolic of the end of the slavery discussion as the new US government forms because none of the characters remaining in the play care about abolition by that point. Yes, we never get the slaves' perspectives but the play makes it clear the ideals of the revolution everyone fought for in act one are replaced by the personal egotistical agenda clashes of the power players in act two. In Hamilton "freedom" is defined as creating a space where one can climb the social ladder to the top if they can achieve things through merit. Sometimes heading to the top, those at the bottom are forgotten.

@ar-jv5fc

3 жыл бұрын

you stole the words out of my mouth

@LeonParvossi

3 жыл бұрын

This needs a bump

@jaredrubino1889

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this

@sergentculotte2147

Жыл бұрын

there is an argument to be made, not one of these historical figures was an abolitionist, not even john laurens. Times were dire and the army was lacking in number, without enough people enlisting. Proposing a black batallion was about winning the war first and foremost, with freedom being proposed as an incentive. They feared the British would propose the same deal, thus enforcing the british army, which could both affect the outcome of the war and cause slaveholders to lose their "propriety". Check out Michelle DuRoss' article, entitled Somechere in between : Alexander Hamilton and Slavery, you can find it on google.

@windjager2177

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. Hamilton only ever used the slavery argument in the csbinet battles, mostly, after john laurens. And ths tonly when it benefitted him. He was never portrayed to have done any actual things against it

"The tickets are a lot cheaper..." 😭

@Kalvin5

5 жыл бұрын

LOVED that one! Proper demographic got be concerned about savings.

@abc8722

4 жыл бұрын

@@WollongongWacko Man, when you're right, you're right -- if there's one thing white anglo-saxon protestants don't care about it's savings. Does a lot of damage to their lives, too, but they just can't help it, poor things.

@abc8722

4 жыл бұрын

@@corbsds Oh, you are?

@autumnglass7494

4 жыл бұрын

Ameratsu Rivers the cheaper the tickets.... the cheaper the quality😬

@inkajoo

4 жыл бұрын

oh my god the whole thing was like a stereotype parade and this just added to it lol

You can't ignore history just because you like a musical

@newyardleysinclair9960

11 ай бұрын

The musical ignored history! People don't get this and they take this play at face value. Ppl ate dumb, esp the target audience for a show like this.. it targets the ignorant

@joeycurtis1872

4 ай бұрын

The willfully ignorant and willfully hateful​@@newyardleysinclair9960

Although he has a point, I don't agree with the solution being "close the show". As he said before it's entertainment, therefore we could say that Disney's Pocahontas should be 'cancelled', because the true story was actually about an under aged girl who was taken hostage. Yet instead of canceling every piece of entertainment that has ever wrongfully portayed history, documentaries have been released that provide the viewer with factual information about the subject. The musical isn't supposed to be a fact by fact retelling of what happened, it's an art form, a piece of someone's interpretation. Personally, I disliked him kinda attacking Lin with his own musical, where he directly puts L.M.M. name in the title. He could spend time and effort by producing other stuff that help him inform people of U.S.A. history and not directly attack one person.

@DaniStarEngland

5 жыл бұрын

I'd agree and even say that without Disney's Pocahontas I would not have been interested in learning about the real story. The same applies to Hamilton, before the musical my knowledge of the American revolution was limited to tea in the Boston harbour and we lost. Now I have done much more research into that era just to find out how accurate Hamilton was

@hyon2441

5 жыл бұрын

it's just hard to put the hard truth (history) on art. because they are so realistic and is completely opposite of art and entertainment.

@4dultw1thj0b

5 жыл бұрын

Disney's Pocahontas actually should be cancelled too though

@blxssingss

5 жыл бұрын

I get your point but disagree in terms of the whole Pocahontas thing. It literally should be cancelled because her family, literally hates this movie and Disney didn't even consult them during the process. They just made the damn movie and didn't give any royalties to her relatives. Which is BEYOND fucked up. But yeah I get your point and Pocahontas has different contexts for clear and blatant reasons

@jeviosoorishas181

5 жыл бұрын

Key thing: It's "successful" entertainment. That's what the problem is.

I think Lin was first and foremost trying to make a good story. His show is an increadible work of art, it's easily one of the best written and preformed shows to touch broadway. It's harder to like the characters when you know that most of them own slaves. Lin's show is looking at history through rose tinted glasses, but he was not trying to be malicious about it. The show isn't propaganda, it's art. If he put any research into Lin himself he would know that the show was made with good intentions, the diverse cast was chosen with good intentions and the historical changes were made to make it a better story. Lin isn't a patriotic history denyer.

@bugsyyyyyy

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly. This guy is overreacting

@sana-qx1pr

5 жыл бұрын

Godless X I’m just curious about why Hamilton is the same thing as the KKK

@alessandramontes8318

5 жыл бұрын

Godless X how are you going to take a play and say it's the same thing as the kkk? I'm just curious as to how those two things are the same

@sana-qx1pr

5 жыл бұрын

@Godless X examples? for the play I mean

@Maggy14

5 жыл бұрын

Godless X first of all, im not white, nor am i a liberal, so theres one thing u got wrong, so what exactly in the play is there to justify your statement? Or have you not heard/seen it?

The title was clickbaity and made the guy look pettier than he is.

@navyrotc2012

5 жыл бұрын

Christian Martinez still pretty petty

@iPyroNigma

5 жыл бұрын

He is petty though; lacks humility too. I'd say that as a poet, or playwright - he should understand how creative freedom is in action while creating a piece of art. Is Hamilton 100% true to life? No. Has Hamilton truths to many parts of its re-telling? Yes. I mean... if his play is anything to go by, he has no problem misrepresenting reality.

@mankytoes

5 жыл бұрын

@@iPyroNigma I can't think of a better response, generally, to disliking a play than to put on a contrary play of your own. That's a great use of freedom of expression.

@eleSDSU

5 жыл бұрын

The title is accurate and this guy is incredibly petty and quite dishonest.

@Angie-ji7be

5 жыл бұрын

Eh. Still kinda petty.

"Close the show." "Close Hamilton?" "Yeah" Him: 🤨, 👁👄👁 The other dude: 👁👄👁 Me: 👁👄👁

I think the playwright went on a lot harder on the play and Lin specifically than I would, but he did make a great point about how many people go to see Hamilton and then consider that all the history lesson they need. It would have been interesting to interview more POC who went to see Hamilton, because I feel like even enjoying it, they wouldn’t have had the same “well I’ll just pick and choose history” viewpoint that the white people in the tour group had.

@TamannaDas

5 жыл бұрын

Yes to everything! Especially the POC point!

@anncoxwell7015

3 жыл бұрын

You seem to have quite the ability to project behaviors of white people and black people. Stereotype much?

@ryandavies4554

3 жыл бұрын

That’s kinda stupid when I see a musical I’m not there to learn history I’m there to see a musical

Made a whole production The Haunting of Lin Manuel Miranda”? That’s a huge personal attack on someone just because you don’t like their play.

@KSmall109CAB

3 жыл бұрын

Less of a personal attack and more of an attempt to put things into a historical context. Hopefully there will be a streaming of "The Haunting" just as there is a streaming of "Hamilton."

@Attmay

3 жыл бұрын

@@KSmall109CAB This deserves a national tour and a full-fledged movie version, not just a taped production. It should be mandatory viewing and *Shamilton* should be canceled.

@senoc0926

3 жыл бұрын

No! Hamilton shouldn’t be canceled! Ishmael hates it before he even saw it! And Lin worked really hard on Hamilton. So I don’t think it deserves hate. Lin is a person too! Imagine if people talked about how much they hated you and stuff like that, to your face! And made whole musicals just to hate on you! I think that was wrong.

Here is my issue about with this person. Hamilton never said the at historical accurate representation of the life of Hamilton. Lin Marina has said several times. Also, Hamilton did manage the slaves of his father in law but his house never owned slaves because he was against the idea of slavery. That the difference. He lived at the time when slavery (sadly) essential to the economy and was one of the few voices (especially his wife ) at the time that was actively against slavery. Nobody perfect but at least tried to change and did so in some way. That is important.

@Tuned_Rockets

5 жыл бұрын

yeah, it's like the "You can't critisize capitalism on the internet. the internet was created by capitalism" of the 18th century

@maddyosa7338

5 жыл бұрын

Marika Staňková That can be true and I can even argued that is reflected in the play. Where everyone else was saying is slavery is bad and something need to be done about, the only person who is the most vocal and actively tries to do something about it dies. It can be seen as commentary that slavery was so in grained in society at time and that though many knew that it was morally wrong those he did try to change the system either failed or died.

@angelacyrlin8322

5 жыл бұрын

There is even a song about slavery in the hamildrops if ya didn't know.

@alexisfenn4970

5 жыл бұрын

@Marika Staňková His boyfriend (John Laurens) was very anti-slavery, so Alex mostly agreed that it was bad. He only managed slaves when he had to because of the family he married into.

I get what this man is saying. But god, not every single thing has to be historically accurate. If anything, it encouraged a lot of people to pick up a book and read the missing pieces. There's a difference with wanting to make a piece historically accurate, and having artistic freedom. Yes, we should not gloss over the fact that Hamilton had slaves himself, but we shouldn't also bury the fact that Madison, Jefferson, and Washington had more than him. The only story who was true was John Laurens and even so, that was to a degree. They failed to mention Laurens was married and had a daughter, that Mulligan was Irish, that Aaron Burr wasnt actually Charles Lee's second. There's so many other inaccuracies in Hamilton, but in the end it is an artistic choice that works. It's not just the story that makes it amazing. Its the music, and what exactly inspired, not just the words and melody, but 4 simple notes that reappear throughout with a purpose. "Shut the whole thing down" The musical is going to pull a Les Mis, it ain't shutting down anytime soon. With 4 national tours, a West End show, and kicking strong at the Richard Rogers theatre, this show, with it's obvious inaccuracy will thrive. And that's okay. People learn more about Alexander Hamilton because after listening to the soundtrack, they wanted to see what is true and what wasnt.

@tracygalicia7342

5 жыл бұрын

True but super fans and audience are taking this so wrong by glorifying Hamilton.

@brittanybroquadio8846

5 жыл бұрын

@Sawbones The show is a little bit more accurate. So they missed one thing, big whoop? Lots of things were missed in Les Mis, Phantom and all that.

@jaydenstephenson6447

4 жыл бұрын

I agree. I actually have started reading "Alexander Hamilton" by Ron Chernow because of Hamilton. Again, you can't deny the innacuracies, but that what makes the musical special. I learned a lot of history from this musical, and the accurate part of it. I used to think Alexander Hamilton was the president ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Now I know he was secretary of the treasury 🤓 I didnt know anything about Laurens or Mulligan or Lafayette etc. **where was I living? Under a rock?? I learned a lot from this musical. Thank you forever Lin ❤️

@jessicaa9470

4 жыл бұрын

ummm when art is worshiped to the level that the "Hamilton" musical is, it has a right to be criticised. Young impressionable fans are beginning to idolise the "founding fathers" when in reality they were disgusting genocidal rapists and slave owners. That's a big deal or are we just comfortable with being blind and comfortable in the name of fun and catchy "art"?

@bean4423

4 жыл бұрын

Brittany Broquadio that “one thing” is slavery.

I guess I'll give my thoughts Hamilton is not a documentary: if this guy doesn't like Hamilton that's fine, but criticizing Hamilton because it's not 100% historically accurate (or 80% really) isn't fair because that isn't what it's meant to be. Let me pose to you a situation, the world was wide enough portrays the duel Hamilton as aiming his pistol to the sky while burr shoots him, there is a debate about if Hamilton did that or not and it's more realistic to say that Hamilton did shoot. Hamilton becomes a more compelling story if story Hamilton didn't shoot, instead of Hamilton sticking to his guns and burr changing you get a switch, burr decided not to wait for it and did something off of impulse and Hamilton waited, the entire musical near every time burr failed it's because he waited instead of acted, in the version where Hamilton tried to shoot burr you have burr go through actual real character development whereas Hamilton stays static at his core, in the version that exists they both change because of each other highlighting the impact they both had on each other lives. Hamilton isn't a documentary and it shouldn't be. You might as well criticize Hamilton because "they wouldn't actually debate via song in Congress" or "The king wouldn't actually flamboyantly prance around his palace singing to himself about foreign affairs"

@ysabellaporche5015

5 жыл бұрын

Even more so, Hamilton isn’t meant to be a historic piece. The whole framing of the play and the story was always meant to tell the story of the downfall of an ambitious man. Hamilton was never meant to praise a founding father based on falsified history. It was meant to tell a story.

@johnreese5739

5 жыл бұрын

@@ysabellaporche5015 well said

@angelacyrlin8322

5 жыл бұрын

I applaud you 👏

@angelacyrlin8322

5 жыл бұрын

Also there was this theory (idk if it's true) that Hamilton shot but missed and hit the tree behind Burr.

@benny569

5 жыл бұрын

This guy does not know nothing about musical fans or how this could affect them. What a scrub.

The tour guide said “And I OOP-“

@winonadawn2794

19 күн бұрын

what did he say? I didn't catch that.

Ishmael Reed represents a much-needed figure in every period. We need people that are more skeptical and keep reminding us not to romanticize people who committed horrible crimes against humanity and/or were complicit to them. I can't overstate how MUCH I LOVE Hamilton. Every time I listen to specific songs I cry, it moves me every damn time and I am AMAZED by the lyrical and musical prowess of Miranda writing the whole damn play. This does not mean that I don't agree with Reed (well.... maybe I don't agree when he says that an 8th grade pageant would do better but eh I don't get offended when he says that) on his criticisms about whitewashing and about how cringy it is to see representations of people who used others for slavery talk about freedom - I personally always feel a little cringe when Miranda as Hamilton calls out Daveed's Jefferson on the south being sustained by slavery. On the other hand, I feel that it is important for actors of color to be featured and to be acclaimed for their performances. Even if it is kind of offensive and cringy people of color (especially black people) representing slave-owners, I think it would have been even worse if the cast was historically accurate - all white. tl;dr; I agree with Reed's criticism and I think his statement is important even though I love Hamilton with all my heart. I think what we love needs to receive and to be able to handle criticism

@marcospatricio8283

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, his criticism is 100% accurate and needed. He's also very rude and mocks Miranda to an unconfortable degree. Every generation needs people who aim to destroy idols, we do need people that teach us to question, to ask and to doubt. But said people being efficient about it, instead of petty, would also be great.

God some of these comments are literally proving Ishmael Reed’s point 😩

@BlakeGeometrio

3 жыл бұрын

Sad part is that they don't even realise it.

@Cleighcade

3 жыл бұрын

THANK YOU! Like they don’t realize that whether Miranda’s intent for the play was XYZ... it is making mainly middle class and elite class white people just feel better about themselves and America’s history. And black people play the role which, whether intended or not, leaves a subliminal message of okness with America’s history. Has no real self reflection or awareness to offer. And no throwing in that girl’s little I spoke about slavery one little liner at the end does not count. I mean yes the music, production, amazing but the plot! Why that plot? People need to stop defending it. He could have used anything else.

@Cleighcade

3 жыл бұрын

Mimi my point is that whether it’s a history lesson or not (of course it’s not) that it can have adverse effects on people’s mindsets. Just because something is not meant to be a history lesson doesn’t mean some people won’t take it as such.

@dragb9284

3 жыл бұрын

@@Cleighcade yeah and that just shows the failing of the education system. Like it’s not that hard, you guys are getting worked up over a musical that the creator has said isn’t entirely historically accurate. Like come on really this is what the big bad this. It’s concerning you guys are putting such emphasis on a musical, I liked the music but most people arnt treating it like gospel and the fact you guys are kinda says a lot more about you then anything. Most of us arnt on either extreme but look at you guys and just say wow really. Cause that argument could be made for any price of media should we cancel jojo bizarre adventure or Wolfenstien because it’s not completely historically accurate as. There are nazi who arnt portrayed as pure evil.

@JTUntamed

3 жыл бұрын

@@Cleighcade i mean Lin has repeatedly stated that its not meant to be taken as anything BUT a musical. Now yes, are there gonna he some people that take it as something else? Sure. I mean we just had a girl put GORILLA GLUE in her hair bc the label didn’t say no to. People are gonna be dumb. Blaming media for people’s actions is a little off. People may be INSPIRED by media to do FURTHER research of the topic they’re into but ideas are not meant to be based SOLEY off of media

Im just going to point out im a history major: Hamilton was an abolitionist but most abolitionist in the 1700s weren't as serious as later. He did however, manage the sale of schuyler slaves to impress his rich inlaws. Whats ironic though is Hamilton was against free immigration and was the leading conservative for his time (by todays standards he would be a big business liberal) But what people dont understand is biographies (ive read many, even as a young kid) ussualy portray the figures in their perspectives (like their thoughts and personal mistakes) so if miranda based it from a biography, its going to be told in their perspective the same way that miranda was a migrants kid and stresses Hamilton as an immigrant. But above all, its just a story. Its not saying anything about black people thats bad and portrays slavery as something bad. If you want to know the truth, i encourage you to study history, but I know every inaccuracy known and i still love it. I respect the mans decision to not like it on personal beliefs, but its ok to like a story for what it is as long as thats only what you take it as: a story. Otherwise you'll probably hate almost every Disney movie you grew up with

I love Hamilton, but this dude makes a great point and I totally agree with him, good on him for putting this out there.

@Andy-km1xp

5 жыл бұрын

Celtic Revival / Adfywiad Celtaidd Hamilton is mostly accurate

@alyssahansen1400

5 жыл бұрын

@Godless X I get the feeling that you really hate historical fiction.

@alyssahansen1400

5 жыл бұрын

@Chance I didn't mean to claim that it was historical fiction (though it may or may not classify). I was referring more to stories where fictional characters are placed during a historical event. I saw this because they seem very passionate about everything historical being completely accurate, so I think that they would also have a hatred for such books or... I suppose there are likely films and what not in that genre as well. I think you get what I mean now though so I'll shut up.

@nolansnichenook

5 жыл бұрын

@bobbino , exactly my thoughts, I enjoy the musicality and production aspects of Hamilton but I definitely can see where the man was coming from

@l.7282

5 жыл бұрын

Godless X Christopher Jackson is playing a character?? Like no one would be dumb enough to believe that Washington was black.

Leave it to Karen to say she's going to ignore the history because she likes something.

@dobbstheelf2835

3 жыл бұрын

The point itself she was being presented with is stupid though.

@senoc0926

3 жыл бұрын

Is it bad I agreed with her... I really like the play.. I saw where Ishmael was coming from, but I wanna sit back and enjoy the play.

@RedakaiCity

2 жыл бұрын

White guilt Matt?

@pal8542

2 жыл бұрын

I think we can separate the two, love Lin's play and interpretation of Hamilton and simultaneously acknowledge that it is fiction, art and a piece of entertainment and acknowledge the real history of Hamilton and what he did and what he was like. I don't think it's right to ignore it. We can recognize the truth while still appreciating the fiction.

Some things in Hamilton were probably inaccurate to the actual history, but this guy doesn’t understand the message of the musical. Plus Hamilton is an interpretation and the play he wrote was basically an insult to Lin Manuel Miranda’s work, not knowing how much effort and hard work he spent into Hamilton and the community that supported the musical. All in all, Hamilton maybe historically inaccurate but it’s just a musical and you just have to leave as it is.

@Sarah-xl5ej

5 жыл бұрын

Connor Smith exactly

@Dave102693

5 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure he understands very well

@angelacyrlin8322

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly

@Attmay

3 жыл бұрын

To quote an actual musical, all the facts about LMM are insults. #AbajoHamilton

@primrose6834

3 жыл бұрын

Dave102693 Lin did a ton of research, and definitely does not see Hamilton as a hero or an abolitionist. He originally related to his character because his parents were immigrants. He has stated before that Hamilton was not a good person, and that the musical took creative liberties to get a message through. The people that saw it and immediately thought it was a piece of accurate history did not understand that message. But that can’t be pinned on the creator, Broadway tried to market it as a piece of accurate history, which caused those people to miss the actual message. It was not marketed like that when it was off broadway, because Lin knew people would take it too seriously. So while I agree that the way it portrays the founding fathers is problematic for someone who doesn’t know history, I think that insulting the amount of time Lin spent researching is not going to help people come to the conclusion that it’s a work of historical fiction and not fact.

just so you guys know ishmael reed has been an activist and writer since before lin manuel miranda was even born.

I mean, Hamilton founded an abolitionist society in New York and was one of the few American leaders to publicly support the Haitian Revolution. He wasn't John Brown, but he wasn't Jefferson Davis either. It really seems like this guy was just looking for a reason to hate the play. And I say this as someone who doesn't really care for the musical.

@OjaysReel

5 жыл бұрын

"It really seems like this guy was just looking for a reason to hate the play." Prove it.

@adotburr9318

5 жыл бұрын

He was looking for every reason to hate the play, he saw it once and then hung on to two or three small details out of context to criticize. His whole argument is focused on the play depicting Alexander Hamilton as an abolitionist, which as someone who knows every word of the musical and has seen it in person is not at all what the play is trying to accomplish.

@KaijaSchmauss

5 жыл бұрын

@@adotburr9318 This exactly. He seems to take issue with the fact that the cast is intentionally POC too, though he doesn't seem to have ever looked into the story behind that choice. There actually are a few good reasons it was done this way.

@TamannaDas

5 жыл бұрын

@@KaijaSchmauss ^ this!! People need to look into Lin's reasons for casting it that way. He's explained it since the beginning.

@pricklylavy802

5 жыл бұрын

@Godless X I've been looking through all these comments and why do you, of all people, seem to have the largest, fattest stick shoved so far up your ass all you speak is actual shit?? No one's trying to spread propaganda and learn to take criticism without having an aneurysm. You're being childish, like some edgy 12 year old who just has to yell something for attention. People have differing opinions, if you want to press into adult matters conduct yourself like one.

guy: *hates hamilton and sees it* hamiltrash: *loves it and probably can’t see it*

@despinasgarden.4100

4 жыл бұрын

Sad but true.

@Spookyreading

4 жыл бұрын

kaylee rae He never saw it. He said he just studied the script.

@BatsIndignant

3 жыл бұрын

@@Spookyreading we literally see him exit the theater after seeing the musical in the video?

@Attmay

3 жыл бұрын

@@Spookyreading The video literally shows him condemning it after he saw it. I tried to listen to one track and couldn't finish it. This isn't music. This is noise. Hip-hop has got to go. It has enabled homophobia, violence against women, and black-on-black violence, and is just plain annoying.

@alishakendrick-pradhan6528

3 жыл бұрын

Attmay your racism jumped out

The tour guide was spot on, Hamilton is a work of art (and it's a musical, not a play). It's a story told from the main character's, Alexander Hamilton's, perspective. Has Mr. Reed never heard of the concept of the unreliable narrator? This whole discussion in the video actually reminds me of one of my favorite memes that circulated back when Hamilton first started to catch on in popularity. It was a text box where characters like Madison, Jefferson, Burr, and so on, were pointing out historical inaccuracies for each of their characters in turn. They were all minor changes made to fit the flow of the show (dates, locations, the order of battles, things like that) interspersed among each of their lines was a single word from Hercules Mulligan. If you read down the box (like an acrostic poem) you could see he was saying (in all caps) WHAT'S THIS ABOUT HORSE F@#$ING? In the same way that Hamilton wasn't a woke saint (not that the show claims that he was, but whatever), Mulligan never engaged in acts of bestiality. It's a story about Alexander Hamilton set to music. If you want the pure history, read Chernow's 800+ page biography.

This guy is overreacting, I am not saying that his points aren't valid, I'm simply stating he is taking this way out of proportion. Hamilton is not a history lesson. It's a story. A work of art. Of course, not everything is going to be 100% accurate.

@Alice-sh1qy

5 жыл бұрын

Lily Porter then why do people praise it as it’s a history lesson?

@hbomax6542

5 жыл бұрын

@@Alice-sh1qy That's not the creator's fault though. That scenario is entirely the audience's fault. People shouldn't praise it as a history lesson because it isn't. Also, only a few people (in my knowledge) ever do that. Hamilton is a story about Hamilton. It's not a story about the 17th century. It's a story that's in the 17th century. And if you're learning about the American Revolution through a musical, knowing that the chances of inconsistencies is quite high, than its clearly a you problem.

@benny569

5 жыл бұрын

Ikr

@wellesradio

5 жыл бұрын

"It's not a history lesson". That's the excuse unethical creators use to abandon responsibility. It's right up there with, "They're just jokes!" Once you enter the public sphere and discourse on history, you're responsible for adding to the mythology that will eventually reintegrate the facts in the public imagination. That has consequences. Important consequences. Take a look at the debates on the legacy of the Confederacy. "It's not the artist's fault" is a cop out. An artist needs to know what they're doing. They need to be aware of the social and political impact of their work and their medium. Lin Manuel Miranda is EXTREMELY sensitive to that and aware of it. He had a political agenda, a noble one I might add. But it's fair to criticize him for losing sight of factual accuracy in favor of pursuing that narrative.

@alexisfenn4970

4 жыл бұрын

@@wellesradio It's just a broadway musical. Do you attack Newsies? Do you attack Le Mis? Hell, do you attack Phantom of the Opera or Wicked? No, because that would be fucking stupid. Additionally, it's from Alex's point of view, of course he sees himself as a hero and as the best thing ever, he's the narrator and POV character!

Putting goofy music under this guy, who is a great writer and has much to say on the topic, is so incredibly condescending.

@subsonic9854

5 жыл бұрын

Well how dare he not be the right kind of sjw!

@OwenGilmoreOG

5 жыл бұрын

eytanos agree, it was half way over before I realized that they were talking about Ishmael Reed. Have a little respect vice!

@OjaysReel

5 жыл бұрын

@@subsonic9854 Good trial. Fail though.

@baconsoap78

5 жыл бұрын

To be fair, if he was smoking a joint he’d have better background music. It’s Vice, not actual news.

@marktabaczynski2826

5 жыл бұрын

You’re right they should have put the darth maul theme underneath

"Close the show" "Close the show?" "Yah" "Close Hamilton?" "Yah" *stares intensely*

@alphajava761

3 жыл бұрын

The interviewer looks at him like, you'd put black and brown actors out of work . nevermind that you're right

This video proves Ishmael Reed's points. The white tourists and tour guides trying to whitesplain away the buying and selling of human beings made me sick to my stomach.

@monitiaf3889

10 ай бұрын

Yep they told on themselves pretty hard.... "Well I'm choosing not to look at that part." rolled out of her mouth pretty fast... and "Lynch mob" smh.

If you ever have a flavorless dish, bring that man around because he is salty af. 😑

@caramiaasmr8722

3 жыл бұрын

People have the right to be salty about glorification of slave owners.

@justindc5362

3 жыл бұрын

Guess whitewashing your ancestors suffering does that to a person

I never looked at it from this perspective. I kinda agree with this guy.

@jangobango2847

5 жыл бұрын

That's because you are brainwashed by a certain political party probably

@jamesgreenldn

5 жыл бұрын

@@jangobango2847 left and right are both brainwashed

@jangobango2847

5 жыл бұрын

@@jamesgreenldn hell yes they are that's why I said certain lol any party in a bipartisan system is close minded and shallow

@Leo-vr3bg

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah not the slavery take, but the fact they took historically white guys and stick black guys in, just struck me wierd. Maybe trying to change history.

@Mageroeth

5 жыл бұрын

@@Leo-vr3bg I am talking about the slavery.

I have to agree with ishmu reed, but I prefer to look at the play as a retelling of our founding myth not about historical accuracies. Representing how we feel now, more than how it was. I think peoples poor understanding of our founding fathers is not an issue of the play but our educational system.

Lin said it himself that Hamilton not historically accurate because it needs to fit into a musical style. You can’t really fit a whole life of someone in 2 hours and you do have to change a few things. But the musical did get me to go and learn more about it.

@the4universes207

2 жыл бұрын

We too man. The song, the set, and dancing were amazing. But a black cast to represent the Founder father, especially George Washington. Nope. As Mexican and patriot to Mexico and USA I didn't like it and never will.

@diegopuente8309

Жыл бұрын

@@the4universes207 ? jajjajajajaja

the reason Hamilton is portrayed as more of a hero than he may have actually been, is because it's absolutely necessary for the people watching to like the character of Hamilton. I agree with the tour guide, it is a play and there is an amazing, positive message that the play spreads. although it is not entirely historically accurate, some of the historical details would've taken away from the plot. in the end, this isn't a biography, it's a play.

@K.YouTube2

5 жыл бұрын

Absolutely necessary is a stretch.

@ivysaurus

5 жыл бұрын

it's cause the musical is from his perspective/Eliza's perspective

@DrowsyKodi

5 жыл бұрын

Hamilton was never the hero he was the protagonist we just followed him even if there had to be a hero it wouldn’t be Alexander

@kingofmc.donald9010

5 жыл бұрын

Hamilton was more of a tragic hero

@Nokomomo22

5 жыл бұрын

It's a musical. Of course things are gonna be changed to rhyme.

Is he also going to point out that Hamilton, Laurens, Mulligan, Jefferson, Madison, and Washington were not, in fact, rappers? I love history. Of course not every single thing is going to derive from a college textbook on the American Revolution. The joy in the musical is appreciating the adaptations for what they are--what's the fun in picking out the historical inaccuracies? The broad story line is largely correct, which in my mind makes the show more fascinating to watch. I'm not saying we should ignore the bad of that time by any means, but it's possible to enjoy and appreciate the show for what it is at the same time.

@maggieandrews7676

3 жыл бұрын

Okay but not being rappers doesn’t equate to not being slave owners. Rap is the style of the musical, not the content. Nobody is gonna think that they were rappers, but people will believe that they were against slavery.

@TotalMayham

3 жыл бұрын

@@maggieandrews7676 John Laurens was a real man who fought against slavery until he died. He begged George Washington to let Black People fight in the revolution for the chance of their freedom. After he died, George Washington let the slaves go back to the slave masters and the actor who played George Washington said he struggled hard to come to terms with knowing that George Washington was a slave owner. Lafayette was also a real person who fought in the american revolution war and the French revolution and also fought for the end of slavery after the French revolution. There was many instances where Hamilton was known for being against Slavery but he was dealing with so much that it wasn't in the top priorities of his lists he wanted to do. (Doesn't make it right). He married a woman who's family were Slave owners. "In 1774, he published his first major political essay, “A Full Vindication of the Measures of the Congress,” which drew direct comparisons between enslaved people and colonists oppressed by the British." No Hamilton wasn't a perfect man we can clearly see that in the play that he wasn't. We can't take everything face value, not everything is black and white in what happens in this world.

Good for him. It’s an interesting perspective, and he has a strong backing for all his points. It’s a good conversation to be had.

Hated the idea of Hamilton and the fact that it was a history piece that white people were obsessed with is all I needed to know. Lol 😂

I get trying to point out the missing pieces of history in Hamilton, but the musical was already incredibly long compared to many other modern musicals. I still think Miranda did a wonderful job with Hamilton

@TamannaDas

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah

Even though I love Hamilton, he has a point...

@alexbennet4195

3 жыл бұрын

@@nickarjoma5350 Oh dear if your main takeaway from Hamilton was a showcase of the "accomplishments" of some old, dead, white guy. Now I can definitely see why many are so critical of it.

@arstotzkianarmedforces1057

Жыл бұрын

@@alexbennet4195Some old dead white guy” Okay bud. You can literally say the same for hundreds of presidents across eroupe and America, but unlike you slumped in a Cheeto dust covered bean bag, they built entire countries and they founded ideals that carrys entire nations, just like hamilition. So these “dead white guys” are the exact reason you can eat the food you do and live in a warm house with endless entertainment. Show some appreciation.

I can’t believe some of these comments... there’s a difference between “not being completely historically accurate” and romanticizing this story in a way that makes people are uncomfortable. Forgetting that Phillip Schuyler had a son is a forgiveable bit of historical innaccuracy. There’s not much to unpack there - he just didn’t know. Hamilton being characterized as an avid abolitionist is a deliberate detail that warrants criticism. Of course this is for entertainment, but you can also look at the implications of entertainment on society, and how an author’s choices about which events they choose to alter change the context and meaning of the piece.

@ScarsWillFade08

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe I'm missing something, but...when was Hamilton being or not being an abolitionist mentioned in the play? I remember Eliza saying that she wrote about it *after Hamilton death,* as well as her establishing an orphanage to honour Hamilton legacy as an orphan. Lauren was the one whom I recall being mentioned as an abolitionist.

“If seen better eighth grade pageants” I don’t remember an eighth grade pageant getting nominated for 16 tony awards. I also doubt that “the haunting of Lin Manuel Miranda” would get one.

@hamiltonusnavibeetlejuicec4061

4 жыл бұрын

Mikledeepikle - PREACH

@aznmochibunny

3 жыл бұрын

The Haunting wouldn't get a Tony because Tony's are awarded to musicals.

I enjoyed that the dude's criticism of Miranda and Hamilton was a play of his own. It's like rap battles. The art is enhanced by the sparring of the two to hopefully, in the future, make better plays.

@dexdigi

5 жыл бұрын

I had the same thought too! Regardless of what you think of either play/musical, Ishmael Reed making a play to dis another play is the most hip-hop thing I've seen in a long time

@Attmay

3 жыл бұрын

I wish someone would go to battle against rap. You do that every time you learn to play a musical instrument or actually sing.

I disagree with this guy. Personally I’ve never seen Hamilton because that shits way to expensive lol. But I am familiar with the sound track. Anyway, the fact that Manuel allowed a black/Hispanic cast to portray founding fathers was very beautiful to me. I’ve only known the play through audio, so while I was listening to it, in my mind all the characters displayed their confidence and humanity through the music. When I was done listening to Hamilton a few dozen times, I searched it up online. In my mind I pictured the actor of George Washington as a tall white guy and I was completely mind blown to see that it was being played by a black actor! There where black and Latino actors portraying these powerful historical characters! It was nice to see Black and Latino people were holding high positions like Presidents, senators and high ranking officials even if it was in a “semi-fictional” play. As a young Latino man, I was very moved by the play and not by the story of Hamilton itself but by the inclusion of “minority” actors in the play. As a young Latino man, my people are reported to be connected to cartels, drugs, violence, corruption, oppression, poverty, etc. Although some of these things might be true, Some of us are trying are very best to rise above this horrendous life we were born into. To see “minorities” portraying powerful figures such as the great founding fathers gives me a hope of, “maybe, just maybe someday we can make it”. I feel like this old man in the video didn’t interpreted the message that Lin Manuel wanted to portray with the inclusion of black and African actors.

@nick8422

5 жыл бұрын

whoosh

@TamannaDas

5 жыл бұрын

@felt cute in this, might delete yeah, I wish Cabinet Battle 3 had made it into the show.

@piecesofme8531

4 жыл бұрын

Mejora la raza, Improve the race. The only way Latinos think they can be great is by seeing themselves in white stories.

Lin Manuel Miranda never said that the musical was completely historically accurate

Also, if Lin had kept "Cabinet Battle #3" (The demo's up on KZread. Look it up now if you havent) in the musical, this petty parody play probably wouldnt have existed

This guy is a narcissist if he thinks he's done more research than Chernow, who wrote a 700+ page novel on Alexander Hamilton m

@Attmay

3 жыл бұрын

A novel. Novels are fictional.

@QuantumLeapEnthusiast89

3 жыл бұрын

do you mean biography?

"but no one Actually thinks Alexander Hamilton was a good person, the musical is told through his perspective of course it's biased" hey as someone who was neck deep in the tumblr Hamilton fandom, ur dead wrong lmao. I reblogged Miku binder Thomas Jefferson unironically so you can take my word for it.

This guy says that everyone's painting Hamilton and history itself in a positive light. Yes, that's inaccurate. You know what else is inaccurate? Saying that the Founding Fathers did no good and were nothing more then slave-holder and native exterminators. History is not positive. It's not negative either. It's just the truth. While we should definitely not ignore that the Founders of America were slave-owners, we should also not undermine there achievements because of it. It would be not be truthful to say Hamilton was a good person who was upstandingly moral all the time. It would also not be truthful to say he wasn't immensely inspiring and successful considering his position, or was nothing but a terrible person. People aren't perfect, and never were. Yes, even Founding Fathers. I think the main reason why so many people fall into the all-negative pithole is because we can't admit nor fathom just how human these creators of a nation were. Adams was brilliant, but was also a paranoid wreck. Jefferson was a great philosopher, but wasn't always very clear-sighted beyond his theory-world. Hamilton was greatly ambitious and immensely moral, but also failed to enact his morality all the time and was immensely cynical to the point of idiocy. Yes, they were these things, and they can be both good and bad.

I see a lot of people in the comments saying that the point of "Hamilton" was that it was viewing history through rose colored glasses and that the story is told from Hamilton's PoV, but I think this guy's point is that it shouldn't have been made with that that perspective

I have one thing to say; Hamilton isn’t a documentary.

Considering the Rockefeller Foundation and the Gilder Lehrman Institute of American HIstory (the board of which happens to include Miranda's parents) have launched a multi-million-dollar history education program based entirely around this musical and targeting high schools in minority neighborhoods, we'd say the implications of the musical "not being completely historically accurate" actually matters quite a bit now.

It’s kinda like “The Greatest Showman” , the show runners for Hamilton never posted or said “based on true events” at the beginning of the show. So considering how Hamilton presents itself, I don’t think any one is taking historical notes from a musical.

@gremlyn1658

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I don't actually think the real PT Barnum was a woke inclusive bro 😂 But I still love Greatest Showman because it's a good and colorful *story* with some sweet bops.

Acclaimed black historian and writer: “this musical made by a Latino man about a slave owner makes me uncomfortable” Ppl with brainworms: “YOU DIDNT GET IT. ITS A MAKING A STATEMENT” (Also I want you to know Toni Morrison funded Reed’s play too)

But that play looks so bad, though. I think this piece could be a really interesting forum of debate, but make it live up to the art form of theater. As is, it looks like a bad high school production of Our Town.

@lumitwilight

5 жыл бұрын

As someone who has been subjected to a high school production of Our Town, agreed.

@aster-naut

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, especially the portrayal of Lin. From what I know of him, he's nothing like the way he's portrayed in that play

@commaafterdearest4187

4 жыл бұрын

@@aster-naut I agree, and I'm 99.99% sure that it was intentional. He was meant to look ignorant and naïve, so that's how they made him appear. Also, you could argue (as this video clearly shows) that A.H is portrayed "incorrectly" in Hamilton as well. (Not saying that I have a problem with A.H.'s portrayal, due to the fact that Hamilton is from his perspective, just saying).

@skatalite

3 жыл бұрын

It's an Off Off Broadway independent production, of course it's not going to have the advanced sets, costumes and lighting of a billion-dollar worthy Broadway play?

@Attmay

3 жыл бұрын

It looks like an excellent show. Stop projecting *Shamilton's* flaws onto a superior work.

I bet you Ishmael Reed is really appreciative of the free advertisement you just gave his play.

Should all pieces of entertainment be historically accurate?

@sirjgn4868

5 жыл бұрын

@Chance But then when you say that people will whine because now they want a "historically accurate piece" Gosh I just do not get people.

@georgiemartin6236

5 жыл бұрын

Yes

@yanetteb8119

4 жыл бұрын

@Sawbones but it's not a documentary. Do you think you would still like Hamilton if all the actors were white and they said more of what they said in the past?

@arianrhodhyde7482

4 жыл бұрын

well, the musical is explicitly meant to tell a story from American history, and Hamilton is an obscure enough historical figure. There's no debate going on, the inaccurate and dangerous side gets the money, the fame, the air time....he's just trying to present his view the same way lin-manuel presented his

@mattsconscience

3 жыл бұрын

Chance, up until I saw this, I thought that Jefferson and Lafayette were identical twins. Also, I’m mad to find out that Hamilton wasn’t a snarky Puerto Rican rapper. Lin bamboozled us all.

I enjoyed the play and it’s very good. The story told in the play, taking the accuracy question out of it and watching it with everything going on now (2020), I see is it as a tragedy. The character in Hamilton was obsessed with leaving a legacy and loses, his son, family and himself for a flawed ideal.

5:47 "I feel SATISFIED that we made a statement" *cue the music* "All right, all right, that's what I'm talkin about"

I saw that play and AGREE 100 percent with this guy! Have minorities play these characters are meant to make you, as a minority, relate to them. For example, Jefferson’s character has a lot of issues but the audience jeered and laughed. I am now looking forward to see this Ishmael’s work.

@seery6

5 жыл бұрын

If they didn't want to play that part they wouldn't so stop being so bloody stupid the black people playing them parts don't think it's racist or they wouldn't do it. 2019 great time to be alive!

@iPyroNigma

5 жыл бұрын

I don't quite agree. Shakespeare plays are played all over the world. You think we need to bring an English or Danish man to every corner of the world? The fact that racial issues are so vivid in the US is your population and governments' fault; it is not for Lin Manuel to stoke an already stoked fire.

@NappyWayz

5 жыл бұрын

@@seery6 I am not calling it "racist" because it is not. However, it is complex situation when you have minorities singing about freedom and rights. The play brushes over this issue when you consider the mass of people in the US during the time. My favorite song in Hamilton was the Finale. It states,"Who Lives, Who Dies, Who tells your story?" In this case, Lin-Manuel Miranda decided to tell a story that many people would accept as the truth. Yes, life is complicated and I know it is impossible to fit the entire reality in all forms of entertainment but Miranda restricted himself and did not challenge the audience with more of the truth.

@NappyWayz

5 жыл бұрын

@Peter Connell LOL, no, that is not the case. Hamilton is a good play. However, I feel that it is cast a certain way to help minorities feel "comfortable" with the characters. Hamilton is about Alexander Hamilton role in the founding of the United States. To stick with your analogy, imagine the miniseries "Roots" but replace all of the slaveholders with minorities; remove the slaves and violence; add a hip hop lyrics; and dance routines. [I say this in jest]

@NappyWayz

5 жыл бұрын

​@@iPyroNigma Thanks for the reply. It is not the point. There are many different actors in Shakespeare's works. My issue is the story of Hamilton. It presents a vanilla picture that does not cover the complexities of these characters. The "propaganda" that I believe Mr. Reed is referring to is the reason that our founding fathers are played by mostly minorities. In Horsey's (2017) article, he states, "If the revisionist magic of "Hamilton" works, it will inspire young fans of the musical to dig deeper into the stories of the American revolutionaries and not be put off by the fact that they were mostly white men in waistcoats." He has a point, but as soon as they do, they will understand that the "freedom and justice" the play spoke of was not aimed towards the actors in the play. Personally, I know we need to review things from the past in that context, but Miranda makes it a little awkward by giving us a distorted account. www.latimes.com/opinion/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-hamilton-jefferson-20170916-story.html

I think the Hamilton musical perfectly captured the passion and contradictions of the founding fathers.

Omg dude. The play repeatedly makes reference that Washington and Jefferson were not about freedom for enslaved people of color. Hamilton is not portrayed as an abolitionist. Laurens is and was.

HAMILTON IS AMAZING THESE PEOPLE DONT DESERVE A PLAY

"well im choosing not to look at that part" IGNORANCE AT ITS FINEST. Not to mention the tumblr hamilton fans, that's a whole new level of crazy.

@chloe2258

5 жыл бұрын

I think it's okay to be ignorant and enjoy a play. To enjoy a musical. No one is claiming this is 100% accurate except.. insane people. Lin took creative freedom.

@Attmay

3 жыл бұрын

@@chloe2258 "it's okay to be ignorant " Seriously, you suck.

i feel like the jewish guy saying "and the tickets were a lot cheaper" was scripted and stereotypical and i'm deeply offended and i'm writing my own play to roast this video

@bodhisnody5692

5 жыл бұрын

Vasectomy Fail is it going to be cheap??? Hmmmmmm

@Attmay

3 жыл бұрын

But was he wrong?

I literally love Hamilton so much but this man is making SOME SOLID POINTS

I think Miranda was just trying to make a play about Alexander Hamilton. To me it just seemed like he was trying to be diverse 😂😂 Like chill dude

0:35 This man has not heard of Mel Brooks.

I always cringe when someone excuses something as "entertainment." Entertainment doesn't have to be mindless, derivative, or historically inaccurate bullshit. I'm not saying Hamilton is those things, although this man seems to think it is, and his point of view is certainly valid. I've always felt that the best way to criticize a play is by writing another play. I think Godard said that about movies.

In something of a meta way, the show itself recognizes that it might not be true. Hamilton, while skilled with his words and dedicated to a fault, is not portrayed as a paragon of men. In fact, quite the opposite: Act 1 shows his rise from poverty, his place in the war, and his contributions to gaining independence. All positive things. Act 2 looks into how Hamilton’s own narcissism, stubbornness, and immaturity got the better of him later in his life. He refuses to let go of any insult, whether it be from Thomas Jefferson or from his own party members, such as John Adams. He refuses to accept that sometimes being quiet is necessary lest you get yourself in further trouble, as proven with his crafting of the Reynolds Pamphlet in response to claims that he was a traitor. And of course, he refuses to relent on anything, even the simple act of apologizing to Aaron Burr. And that costs him is life. Hamilton is shown to be a great man, but not a _good_ man. He’s petty, self-centered, relentless, and highly confrontational. But at the same time, it’s told from his perspective, so with it being so centered on him, we see an exaggerated version of him. A pure genius. An abolitionist. A hero. And maybe he was all those things, to an extent, but clearly he thought quite highly of himself. The show almost shows us the Hamilton he himself would’ve wanted us to see. And that’s the point. Something interesting some people forget, something that many don’t even know, is that the basic premise of Hamilton is that in this depiction, Hamilton is likened to a classic ‘80s or ‘90s hip hop artist, almost to the point of stereotype. A poor minority who never knew his father and grew up impoverished, who escaped his bad situation and influenced the movements of the day just on the merit of his spoken and written word. Hamilton is, if you will, the first hip hop artist and activist, in a very loose sense. Obviously some things are changed between actual history and the show, and those differences should be noted by viewers and listeners, but the goal of changing them is to create a more cohesive narrative that fits that basic premise. Hamilton wasn’t an abolitionist, or if he was he was likely a hypocrite by simultaneously owning slaves and benefiting directly from the institution, but a modern hip hop artist would idealize freeing those in bondage from their shackles, especially in a literal sense. So the fictional Hamilton has to be abolitionist. It’s to fit a narrative. And I think on those grounds, Lin Miranda can be forgiven for historical inaccuracy.

Wait didn’t Hamilton wright essays against slavery? Didn’t he also support John Lawrence and his dream of a black battalion?

@shriyasharma1830

5 жыл бұрын

John Laurens

@-vsaucemichaelheere-9724

4 жыл бұрын

John Lawrence. I literally just mentally screamed

@joyhouse5777

3 жыл бұрын

They were about the US constitution

I thought they mean Lewis Hamilton.

@Emadavid

5 жыл бұрын

Get in there

lets remember the musical also shows him tell his son to shoot at the sky, he shoots at the sky, he cheats on his wife, and it wasnt a quick hookup he banged maria multiple times and payed to keep things hush hush, and voted for a man he hated just to keep a man who has done no harm to him from winning. it paints him as Hamilton, not a perfect (far from it) human being.

@alexbennet4195

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, Hamilton was a pretty nasty piece of work - far from some idealised hero.

Again, Hamilton is a Musical, not a documentary...

They’re really portraying him like some crazy dude and he’s not

@magzmoney

3 жыл бұрын

No he did that himself. 🤷🏾‍♀️ he said what he said

I understand what the guy who dislike Hamilton is saying that Hamiltion perpetuates inaccuraies about Hamiltion and our founding fathers. However media has always been a regurgitation of real life people and events to where it loses its accuracy. Hamilton is by no means the first to tout its "based in true events" storytelling it is just the most popular one at the moment. It is absolutely up to the viewer to a) research it more and b) make the distinction between fact and fiction. Documentaries exist to tell accurate stories so unless we want ALL of our media to be as sterile we have to accept the trade off of some level of inaccuracies for entertainment. Right now it is just cool to hate on Hamilton rather than admit this happens with everything all the time.

@cvetina1

5 жыл бұрын

Absolutely agree. And Miranda and anyone else working on Hamilton never presented it as historically accurate, because it's not and it's not meant to be.

@yrobtsvt

5 жыл бұрын

Uh... the response play also tells a story.

3:42 omg 🤣🤣💀💀💀

Honestly if Lin saw this he'd probably be nice about it. I mean, from the parts that were shown it looked pretty funny, and not too insulting.

I thought Hamilton was based on today's America not yesterday's

Damn the interviewer/journalist has perfect hair!

For a person that likes historical facts and truth , I can’t say I don’t disagree with this man, he’s right.

My friend says he hates Hamilton and he hasn’t even seen it. And he refuses to listen to any of the songs.

I don't blame him for making fun of Lin Manuel-Miranda. Lin also took part in writing the Encanto soundtrack and it also sucks ass.

“I feel satisfied that we made a statement” He will never be satisfied

@rantperson9035

3 жыл бұрын

I will never be satisfied 😔