Hamilton gets to ignore its problematic elements by being dope and conveniently aligning with a world view that its core audience appreciates. Hamilton is patriotic mythology. The rapping slave owner dissonance is something that's just core to the concept. It relied on execution, being culturally hiphop from dance to lyrics to beats , to the strength of imagining black people in positions of power. Part of the fantasy is imagining slavery and racism doesn't exist (which is perfectly tailored for the rich white liberal Obama era post racism thought).

@FDSignifire

2 жыл бұрын

"Patriotic Mythology"

@kacey261

2 жыл бұрын

That's how I've sort of seen it too. It was edgy enough stylistically so the rich white Broadway patrons could convince themselves they were cool, but watered down enough content-wise so it wouldn't really challenge their world view.

@AllTheArtsy

2 жыл бұрын

@@kacey261 this is every single "white liberal woke" piece of media. the audience for Hamilton is the villain in Get Out. and even Get Out was a mainstream success largely due to the patronage of white liberal wokeness

@theelectricant98

2 жыл бұрын

@@kacey261 I completely agree

@xXSprMgaAwsmFxyHtXx

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t think it’s really meant to be a part of the concept, I think that Lin Manuel just writes plays that use black culture as a crutch. But at least into the heights is a bunch of people that could/would be rapping and the stories are about poc

I wish they'd do a show like this, but for the Haitian Revolution.

@FDSignifire

3 жыл бұрын

That would be flames

@wannaemore4818

2 жыл бұрын

There's a theater piece called haiti terre de feu orr "haiti: island of fire". Its a french play by Yole Derose. Daniel Glover has tried for over 20 years to produce a Toussaint l'Ouverture movie. I'm not going to say it wont happen but the chances are extremely low. The same thing with all of the African kingdoms. We do need to see our real stories...

@giareneeble

2 жыл бұрын

DUUUUUUUUUDE

@victoriap1649

2 жыл бұрын

That would be awesome and make a lot more sense to watch

@AnthonyHarrisJrAntEnt

2 жыл бұрын

First thing I said when I heard about the Hamilton trash heap

I'm impressed that young people seem to get this so easily and still take it in as something they can enjoy. My kids are teens and they loathe most of the founding fathers based on their own deep diving beyond the nonsense in the classroom. But they loved this production. They appreciated it for what it was; a romp. Entertainment.

@dakuten7883

2 жыл бұрын

Finally after five comments, I thought I wasn't going to find one that was super peaceful. It's a little hard to explain what I mean though...

@MiguelThinks

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I wish the noise wasn't so much fatalistic, but looking forward with representation..

@thegoodsouphotel8332

2 жыл бұрын

A Micheal Bay production.

@gorplsnaps2920

2 жыл бұрын

It really saddens me to know that you're PROUDLY raising a generation of anti-patriotic America haters. I wish you, or your kids, would be a little more grateful of the founding fathers. Slavery was a horrible evil, and many of them did participate in the institution of slavery, but so did most farmers of the time. They weren't particularly pro-slavery for their time. Many people like George Washington would have been considered nearly radically progressive for his anti-slavery speeches. You don't have to love everything they did, but neither should you "loathe" some really incredible men who accomplished a lot and risked their lives for all of our freedom, because they were involved in an institution that they didn't like but were financially dependent on.

@EdgelordSativa

2 жыл бұрын

@@gorplsnaps2920 it’s always funny to hear a statement start with slavery was evil BUT.... stfu... slavery was evil period. So was everyone who participated. Doesn’t make you unpatriotic to hold that view.😂😭 I’d never call a slave owner an incredible man, I can only view them from the lense of the people they enslaved, how incredible were they to them?

Man, I’m only about halfway through this video and I just got to say, I freaking love it. One comment with regards to the old “they were men of their time“ argument is that out is often forgotten that there was a abolitionists shortly after slaves started arriving. The founding politicians knew what they were engaged in was immoral, they just had a rationalization.

@ddacoe0

2 жыл бұрын

I believe it! I'd like to learn more about early abolitionists!! THOSE are the "white" people we should be making plays about, not the slave owning founding racists!

@cptfullsack6373

2 жыл бұрын

Not to mention the perspective of the slaves themselves

@ambriaashley3383

2 жыл бұрын

All around the world, people knew the horrors of slavery & were abolishing it in their own nations. But the good ol US of A capitalized on it and were among the first to implement *chattel slavery* and all its horrors - abuse, rape, starvation, on and on...

@src3360

2 жыл бұрын

The bible was used to justify enslavement back then and now unfortunately

@loreleiflare7388

2 жыл бұрын

I think it's really funny how there actually was a vocal abolitionist Founding Father--Benjamin Franklin--and the book Hamilton is based on basically pauses midway to do a bunch of bad-faith attacks on Franklin, transparently *solely* because Franklin had a much stronger claim at being abolitionist than Alexander Hamilton ever did and it made Alex look bad. The book does the same thing with Aaron Burr being an advocate for women's suffrage, incidentally. They were all horrible people to be clear I just hate that dumbass book lol

Here's what I think is the real twist when it comes to Hamilton and its success: In order for a Broadway play to be that successful with an all Black and Brown cast, they had to reenact the lives of genocidal slave owning colonists. That was the biggest issue I had with it, because it reflects a problem with representation we still have in American media. Honestly, I'm still proud of Lin Manuel for making the money he did and giving so many actors and actresses the come up they deserved with Hamilton. Hopefully we won't have to rely on wearing powdered wigs and knickers to be accepted by white audiences anymore.

@ddacoe0

2 жыл бұрын

THISSSSS!!!!

@heatherlee2967

2 жыл бұрын

+++

@JenzJoe

2 жыл бұрын

My sentiments exactly.

@chandraanjelica5608

2 жыл бұрын

@@clarissak.4587 wow thats a great idea.

@heatherlee2967

2 жыл бұрын

@@clarissak.4587 That sounds like it would be a powerful story watch if done correctly. I'd love to see it if it get made someday

I wouldnt even give the founding fathers the benefit of "It was a different time" argument. Thomas Paine, another founding father, pointed out the obvious contradiction of "all men are created equal" and the presence of slavery in America, proposed ideas similar to reparation and empowering the oppressed as essential to a successful abolition movement.

@tripfarmer9508

2 жыл бұрын

Even the "different time" argument doesn't hold up when you consider that most of the modern nations of the time had outlawed slavery

@andrewa9064

2 жыл бұрын

One of the most depressing parts is that besides the prominent founding fathers made their fortunes off of slavery any attempt to end slavery during and after the Revolution was met with the Southern Plantations threatening to secede

@MrSkeltal268

2 жыл бұрын

@@tripfarmer9508 Not exactly. It wasn't until the 1800's until most colonial powers that be outlawed slavery in most of their territories and colonies.

@sacha9593

2 жыл бұрын

Thomas Paine was not born a slave holder in slave holding society (slavery was illegal in Great Britain... but not in its colonies). It is always harder to go against what you are born into.

@Copperhell144

2 жыл бұрын

@@tripfarmer9508 The end of the American Revolution was 1791. The first general abolition of slavery was France in 1794. It's true that abolition was about to become more and more popular during the first years of the US's existence, but to say that most modern nations had already outlawed slavery at the time is false.

I’m a Hamilton STAN but completely agree with this analysis. Another blind spot of the musical was the exclusion of Native Americans. Especially how the Iroquois Confederacy’s form of government greatly influenced the founding fathers and their ideas on “democracy”. It would have been interesting getting the perspective of the local indigenous people since they are too often forgotten yet are crucial to the story of the American Revolution

@mgenburn5339

2 жыл бұрын

No way. I’m a Hamilton (and US history) fanatic as well, but I’d never heard of the Iroquois Confederacy’s influence on the American gov. That would’ve been cool

@kohhna

2 жыл бұрын

@@mgenburn5339 Iroquios History and Legends podcast does a good job on the revolutionary period, the confederacy actually broke and fractured on tribal lines over the issue, with the some tribes favouring fighting with the British as their tribal treaties were with the British crown and some (specifically the Onieda) buying into the liberatory revolutionary ideology of the rebels. Native involvment in all this is really interesting.

@morganqorishchi8181

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly I'll take Hamilton's erasure of Native people over what the musical Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson did with them (it's a fun musical comedy about the Indian Removal Act, yes it's real, no I am not kidding).

@djadelaney

2 жыл бұрын

@@morganqorishchi8181 I cannot deal with this existing

@user-oy6hk1gn7l

2 жыл бұрын

@@morganqorishchi8181 it's WHAT

I wonder what the impact would have been if they’d included a cast of silent white people as slaves and really play out that dissonance visually - have Washington rap about freedom then walk past his white field hands without acknowledging them, without any of the characters in the play ever acknowledging they’re there, but talking instead about the wealth of their ‘land’ etc Maybe it wouldn’t have been as popular

@uriustosh

Жыл бұрын

Not among the white liberal bourgeoise who make up 97% of the ticket sales.

@adampalomino2349

Жыл бұрын

The film is about Hamilton who never owned skates and was an avowed abolitionist.

@platoniczombie

Жыл бұрын

I was just thinking this as I was listen to the critique. I think it would've helped or at least make people pause.

@percabethlumity

Жыл бұрын

@@adampalomino2349 I'm pretty sure he did though. Or his wife did. The thing is, Hamilton was at his core ambitious, so his morals were vastly influenced by what helped him. When he was poor and fighting for revolution, slavery didn't benefit him in anyway (and since he's from the North probably most of his friends also don't like slavery) so being against slavery was easy. But later on, he marries Eliza, who's family has slaves. Hamilton very quickly is able to shrug off any of his opinions about slavery when it comes to winning favor with his father in law for political reasons. Because the truth is, he just didn't care that much. He knows slavery is wrong, but if it hurts his career to fight it then he's not gonna fight. That's still being complicit (albeit less complicit but still, Hamilton was part of the problem)

@chriswelter3859

Жыл бұрын

That would've been hilarious actually. Damn, when the playbook finally becomes available for local productions, I hope someone does this. And yeah, just put white slaves in the background. Never reference them. See how confused people get lol

Sally Hemmings was 14 when Thomas Jefferson started rapping her, and the play contains a winking nod to her and Thomas Jefferson's "relationship." Honestly that's this play in a microcosm, the play is aware of the vicious hypocrisy of the Founding Fathers but it's just going to gloss over that vicious hypocrisy.

@LoneWulf278

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly

@eddie9559

2 жыл бұрын

"Sally be a lamb, darling, won't you open it..." I remember vibing and nodding my head when Daveed sang that line, and I questioned my self like "that is not right - there is something deeply wrong with this, right? But after a couple of seconds..... well the song was so good.

@LoneWulf278

2 жыл бұрын

@@eddie9559 SAMEEE. It was uncomfortable. We’re all better people now and that’s what matters. 😂

@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770

2 жыл бұрын

It's also notable how they're allowed to call out Jefferson for owning slaves a bit because he's the designated "villain", yet NOTHING is made of the designated "heroes" for their involvement in slavery.

@loreleiflare7388

2 жыл бұрын

@@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 The original play actually did have one song that briefly acknowledged Washington owning slaves (while pretending Hamilton was pro-abolition and erasing how the whole Schuyler family was a huge slaveowning family, of course), but honestly, even that was pretty limp-wristed. It had all the ferocity and moral conviction of a Disney remake glibly acknowledging, "Hoho, pretty weird how so many Disney mothers die" before promptly moving on and never speaking of it again.

It's weird but I don't actually think "Hamilton" is about history at all. I think what Miranda has done is performed a Prometheus-like coup. He stole the mythology (the White myths of American history) and used them to tell a story that's actually about BIPoC. I think there are many people who don't like "Hamilton" because they think it cleans up, or white washes, Jefferson and Hamilton (et. al.), but I have never believed that the play had much to do with American history. In the same way that Shakespeare wasn't ever trying to write history in any of his history plays (the objectives of history recorders and history retellers is an entirely different objective than those of theatre makers), Miranda is using a basic framework of history to weave a spectacle-text about an immigrant who rises much higher than he (or anyone) ever thought he could or would. Like, for me, this play is actually about the Black people and the People of Color who are inhabiting these characters ( and the spaces in American theatre from which BIPoC are typically and traditionally excluded - the SUBJECT/ the lead/ who the story is about). For me all of these performers are adamantly engaged in a type of performance that says to all of America (and the ideological structures that have shaped and crafted white American history), "We have taken your Gods and we have remade them. We are not concerned with accuracy or your 'truths.' We will do with your Founding Fathers what we want and what we will. You have removed people that look like us from history for so long and y'all just left these stories lying around, growing static and dusty, so we will take them - steal them - and make something beautiful and wonderful and new. We have no interest on retelling your history accurately." Which is what I think is, partly, his (Miranda's) insistence on casting BIPoC in specific roles. That is Miranda forcing the audience to reconcile and negotiate with the fact that BIPoC are so often written out of American history. The other part of the article that strikes me oddly is that, yes, this play is cost prohibitive for BIPoC, but this cast - this show - was performed at one point weekly for free for huge numbers of public school students in New York, and now it can be streamed (for free if you do it right) to anybody and everybody. Yes, Miranda made white people pay all of the monies because they could and he deserved it - but he also guaranteed that thousands of public school children saw the show for free and now, everyone. So, yeah, I don't think this show is about the Founding Fathers and I don't think Miranda's goal was ever to retell American history accurately. I think this whole performance is about how, try as hard as the writers of American history might, BIPoC have always been here, we've always had something to say, and we've always been integral to the telling of the story/myth of American history. I don't think "Hamilton" is about Hamilton.

@rayproctor6692

4 жыл бұрын

I really appreciated your analysis. Thank you. I just thought I would offer thoughts that I had about how this work works.

@FDSignifire

4 жыл бұрын

This is a great take on it. I definitely agree that he co-opted white mythology. It's fair to re-contextualize it completely outside of a white cultural standpoint.

@francescalittle

4 жыл бұрын

I feel the same way, although you expressed it so much better than I every could have! I've always seen Hamilton as a different version of historical events. I don't think it was ever meant to be an accurate retelling of history, which is why I can easily separate hilarious characters like Jefferson and King George from the real historical figures without worrying about them being portrayed in a better light than the real-life characters. I can understand why some people might have issues with it but I'm a big fan of this play. The writing, production, choreography and level of talent are just incredible and I love the fact that these characters are represented by persons of color who are typically excluded from these types of roles. Disney couldn't have picked a better time to release this play.

@recon441

2 жыл бұрын

This is such a cool interpretation, thank you for sharing your perspective

@dakuten7883

2 жыл бұрын

The historical fiction genre isn't really that hard to appreciate

"Sit in that cognitive dissonance, nodding to the rhymes of history's greatest hypocrites." What a great line. Great video.

Wow. This essay is so right (and well argued) . I have fallen in love with Hamilton because of the clear genius and talent of the writer and actors. Knowing what I know about these historical figures does leave me with a bad after taste that I tried to ignore. I think my attraction to this play is that it's mostly black cast telling an American story that isn't rooted in slavery or overcoming racism. It felt good to see a world where people of color were "heros" and telling the story in a music form that I prefer. I can't wait to see what Lin does next. Thanks for sharing!

@nialcc

2 жыл бұрын

That's the problem with Hamilton. The people of color were NOT the heroes and they were not telling their story. It was as if the ghosts of black hating slave owners who used black bodies as a commodity are now using black bodies to come back from the dead. I kept thinking does the true owners of these black bodies have the choice in how their bodes, their culture and their music are being used. I know this is a play in 2015 but the cognitive dissonance hurt my brain so much to couldn't get past 10 mins of it. But it wasn't created for people like me.

@TheoCynical

2 жыл бұрын

@@nialcc So Get Out but with our founding fathers lol. I agree.

@the1dbumblebee317

2 жыл бұрын

Why tf can't we create stories about black people not rooted in racism or slavery, that doesn't include using our bodies as avatars for slave masters? The cognitive disonance is astounding We have an entire continent rich with history, culture and stories waiting to be explored. But we're so busy trying to inject ourselves in a portion of history that very cleary rejected us. It implies a lot of self-hatred and insecurity, and annoys me as much as black people in period pieces

@BimpeOla

2 жыл бұрын

@@the1dbumblebee317 I see ur point. But at the end of the day a Latino person did this not a black person so of course he's not gonna tell the story of black people being kings and queens in ancient Kemet. I would like to see us create our own stories but most of these black directors want the white dollars first before the black dollars.

@happylindsay4475

2 жыл бұрын

@@nialcc This! 🎯

Lindsay Ellis touched on this in her RENT video. Hamilton is a story about revolution, but not in a way that makes the mostly white, mostly rich audience uncomfortable. You leaved pumped but not questioning anything.

@coleG112

2 жыл бұрын

It makes you believe you're listening to something woke and eye-opening and "changing the status quo" without actually saying anything that upholds those standards.

@frealish6622

2 жыл бұрын

Lindsay ellis is cringe

@baguettegott3409

2 жыл бұрын

​@@frealish6622 Oh wow, I found one of Those People out in the wild. And not even on twitter!

@outofequilibrium5775

2 жыл бұрын

white (not american) person here: I left with a desire to read the founding fathers' biographies. Learnt a whole lot about world history and how the topic of slavery got handled politically (spoiler alert: it was and remains a shitshow). Moved on to read everything I could about the underground railroad and some biographies from escaped slaves. So yeah I left pumped about the story and wasn't sitting there questioning everything (and true I certainly was not uncomfortable). But eventually I did find some things along the way that otherwise I probably would have never come across intentionally. I believe art doesn't always need to be instantly 'woke' to achieve what it set out to do: expanding our otherwise closed mind. Hamilton certainly is not 'on the nose' too much, but I think it has a sort of soft power that is quite genius.

@eliottmoore9983

2 жыл бұрын

Personally, RENT made me look at the AIDS crisis in a lot more detail and research about it. It is an incredibly sad show and parts of it are uncomfortable (esp contact). I watched it really young and as a trans person although Angel may not be the greatest rep it definitely did make me feel more seen. Seeing love between a GNC person and someone else made me feel like I was able to be loved as a trans person, which is something I have not seen in a lot of media. While I agree it's audience is mostly white and wealthy it is still meaningful to a lot of young, poor, queer folk. It definitely left me with questions even if it did feel like a sanitised version of events.

"It's so f*ing good, and I hate it." I had never heard someone sum up my feelings for Hamilton so succinctly. Thank you, F.D

I think that Hamilton in recent years has come under what I like to call "The Hey Ya effect". Where do too it's booming popularity anything the play had to say has been overshadowed by either people who just like to vibe to the songs or those who are critical of it due to their own biases. As a black man who has been a fan of his since 2017, I'm actually amazed how much I keep learning about it with repeated viewings. One thing I picked up on is that the play itself is set up like a Greek tragedy where are the two main leads are giving fatal flaws that end up leading to their own downfall. Hamilton starts off as as idealistic guy who wants to prove himself in the world but then more since it's ugly, dogmatic, status Seeker that will do anything to gain more power what's in the Yen leads to so many tragedies with it capping off with his own death

So many black actors have starring roles because of this show… i only wish we got a story about Frederick Douglass or a POC hero instead

@a.toupikov3722

2 жыл бұрын

Daveed Diggs (original broadway cast member of Hamilton) actually plays Frederick Douglas in a TV series entitled The Good Lord Bird. Haven't watched it yet, but it looks really good!

@danielasanchez4674

Жыл бұрын

​@@a.toupikov3722 took a screenshot of this for later, thank you!

I love "Hamilton," and I'm actually very fascinated with this era of American history, but I want a play that depicts actual 18th century POC, as opposed to POC playing White historical figures. Can you imagine how amazing it would be to have a play of this caliber about Crispus Attucks, or Benjamin Banneker? It would be nothing short of epic!

It's funny that this play should be so popular at a time when you were hearing black people in particular beginning to deconstruct the mostly conservative myth that the "founding fathers" were these flawless, supermen whose every thought and ideology is perfect 400 centuries later and worthy of perpetually awe and admiration. It felt out of place during the Obama administration to anyone that was paying attention. Even before I saw it, the concept had me going, "hmmm". When American society wants to sell a non-white creation to the mainstream they often put a white face on it; when they want to sell a white ideal to non-white people they tend to put a black face on it to make it "cool".

@brian_Austin27

2 жыл бұрын

Yup

@seroquelz

2 жыл бұрын

Truth

@AGEE_95

2 жыл бұрын

wasn't the whole point of the play to say that the founding fathers weren't flawless, though? the story of America, then told by America now. and the point of using hip-hop, not about being cool, but to Lin's point, hip-hop was the best way he felt he could tell Alexander Hamilton's story. I can understand if, on the surface or at first glance, the concept rubbed people the wrong way. Or that because it was so popular, you were bound to have your contrarians, who just hated it for that reason. But to people who were truly paying attention- not making assumptions, but truly paying close attention to the art itself -the idea that using a POC cast and hip hop music was just to be cool doesn't actually make sense or have merit. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't. There was a lot more to it than that if you really analyzed the play and its themes.

@Martel4

2 жыл бұрын

@@AGEE_95 and what is a good example of that?

@grassgeese3916

2 жыл бұрын

I think it made sense. My sense observing Obama's presidency was that his ideal for the "African American" is a clean cut, law abiding family man. Lin Manuel Miranda actually performed in the white house before the Obama family, before the musical went live.. Obama was a black face on the (white) American political system. "Hamilton" was a rather elegant parallel.

I was absolutely obsessed with the play in high school. As I got older, the very root and concept of the play made me uncomfortable. America has an amazing public reputation especially amongst Americans. They revere and glorify people who commited henious crimes against humanity. The dehumanization of Black people is very much overlooked and downplayed. This video really captures how I felt but I couldn't find anyone to help me articulate it. I'm glad this video exists, there should be more 'breakdowns.'

@ianbailey4213

2 жыл бұрын

I'm kinda in the same boat as you when it comes to my high school life and now. I was like a bunch of other music kids who uncritically worshipped it. As I became more of a history major and learned to critically engage with media and basically went down the rabbit hole of studying American slavery at university my feelings definitely changed. Watching Thomas Jefferson doing a fun and goody musical number feels weird when you've read his justifications for slavery unfiltered.

@Xaphino

Жыл бұрын

I’m a history major. This play to me was a play. Not an exposé from a book. Its not that hard

I like to add another wrinkle. When public schools started doing Hamilton, they received TONS of auditions and interest from PoC students outside of their theater department. Many students interested in the medium who stayed away finally saw a piece of work that resonated with them. It made the performing arts cool, and Hamilton sparked a new generation of diverse voices in the arts.

@TheDivayenta

5 ай бұрын

Amen! And many schools got to see it for free.

@Keesidia

4 ай бұрын

It's icky. I get that, but that's because it's got great representation and it's popular. I don't think PoC students are getting interested in theatre because they just love Founder's Chic. Hamilton could be about almost any other subject with the same all black cast and excellent writing and it would probably have the same effect.

I looove this musical… it’s soundtrack has been on replay for months since my baby cousin made me sit and watch it with him.. but when he said that he had to watch this for his english class so he could write an essay, I was upset.. the essay mainly focused on how Lin- Manuel structured the stage and the lyrics… but it didn’t change the fact that a teacher had students watching this when most of them haven’t been taught America’s TRUE history.. I’m able to go in and enjoy the music and cute story lines as something like a fanfiction😂.. but kids in elementary and middle school wouldn’t know any better Thank you for this video😊..

@serenitygreene5661

2 жыл бұрын

Yea that’s what happened in my history class when it first came out. My history teacher was obsessed with it. So she incorporated Hamilton into all the assignments and made us listen to it while we work. Now don’t get me wrong, I love Hamilton. But I didn’t like it back then so it was really annoying. But thankfully I graduated lmao

@dakuten7883

2 жыл бұрын

I think it's good to listen to parts of Hamilton like Cabinet Battle #1 to kind of get an idea of what was happening at the time versus to watch the whole musical like a documentary (unless the teacher is going to add in their own commentary to make sure the facts are on point). This, though, could exclude the audience of students old enough or knowledgeable enough to separate historical fiction from history. Personally, I like to think of Hamilton as a great inspiration to learn about history. I've never seen the musical as a very accurate source of historical facts. I see it more as a way to get some important names to pique my interest more. Like I would have absolutely no interest in John Laurens if not for Hamilton.

@wewereonlyseven9325

2 жыл бұрын

@@dakuten7883 history is one of my favorite subjects… like I liked it in school but I loved it even more when I was in college learning about Native Americans.. thankfully I had an aunt who would tell me little facts about our true history… And thankfully while watching the musical, my cousin would slide in true facts about the characters in Hamilton, since he ended up doing a lot of research for his essay and he absolutely was obsessed with the musical 😂..he’s also very smart and loves learning ❤️.. So I couldn’t be too upset, because we’d all lectured him at some point that history teachers usually refuse, or are told not to teach us our full history.. I wouldn’t have minded if the teachers would have taught it that way… like a interesting way to get the kids interested in all of the important names.. so they could do their own research and learning on them.. but that’s usually not the case

@liviafelton

2 жыл бұрын

@@wewereonlyseven9325 ....the essay was about the play and the playwright. .... not about American history We are out here teaching during covid , terrified and exhausted but using a fun thing to help kids get invested in history. You like the musical . Because it's fun . We use it to reach kids ...because it's fun. Clearly we must teach what's in the curriculum but i use cabinet battle #2 to teach the proclamation of neutrality and One Last Time to teach George Washingtons Farrell address. It literally has the words of the original document in it. No one says here watch hamilton then take an exam. Idk ignore me I'm just tired and i wish people would be kind and support teachers instead of every little thing we do being wrong. We are doing our best in a very hard time and it's very easy to work WITH us instead of against us.

@wewereonlyseven9325

2 жыл бұрын

@@liviafelton my comment is not directed at teachers who truly care for their students and them knowing their history culturally.. nor was this to down play how much of a struggle students or teachers have had during COVID.. this was me and many others pointing out the fact that many teachers tend to not care (pre COVID and no doubt still don’t) I’ve had few teachers actually care about the students and love the subject they were teaching.. not to mention the fact that a lot of schools make it to where even the teachers, who want to teach correctly, can’t or they’ll lose their jobs.. The point of me letting y’all know what the essay was about, was me acknowledging that the main focus wasn’t the actual history part.. I also understand that some teachers want to make learning fun.. it’s just.. once again… some teachers don’t want to teach the truth.. I’m just going based off of what he told me.. for all I know, she could have explained more of what the characters in Hamilton were truly like when they were alive🤷🏾‍♀️.. this was just me connecting with my experience with teachers

You explained everything I felt while watching Hamilton. As a Afrolatina I was expecting more of Latin flair instead I got what you’ve explained

@trinity8756

2 жыл бұрын

I’m just starting the video so I’m not sure if he touches on this, but this is something I felt when watching In the Heights. Every girl that’s supposed to play a love interest to the black characters doesn’t have to look like I do. They can be darker, fuller, and more in tune with their heritage. they don’t have to look like Zendaya or Amandla.

@wewereonlyseven9325

2 жыл бұрын

@@trinity8756 this is exactly why I tuned out of the movie after maybe 20-30 minutes.. there should have been more representations of all Latinas.. I’m African American.. but I understand that darker toned Afro-Latinas rarely have roles just like darker toned African Americans… so I was hoping he would have done great diversity, like he’d done with Hamilton.. disappointed he didn’t

@jessica2575

2 жыл бұрын

Yes unfortunately even though our faces are represented our bodies and stories are missing. I don’t want to watch a story that erases our presence/pain during the beginning of America. I am sure the story is great, but I just never had an interest.

" hip hop legend immortal technique supposedly bullied him in high school which is kind of amazing" LMAO

1776 is an interesting contrast. It couldn't be whiter if it were made of milk. But it directly deals with slavery, including the implications of the triangle trade. It's not deep. There's only so much that can be done within a musical format. But, white as it is, it attempted to do something that Hamilton doesn't.

@theleakypen8662

2 жыл бұрын

It's interesting to see 1776 and Hamilton in conversation with each other and also at their different takes on history/legacy. I'm more familiar with 1776 on account of having actually seen it several times (Hamilton is on my watch list now that it's on Disney+, but I haven't got to it yet), but the characters in both musicals are very conscious of the fact that they are living through/participating in a historical moment. "History has its eyes on you," and so on. In 1776, John Adams says to Franklin "If we give in on [the slavery clause in the Declaration of Independence], history will never forgive us" - and rightly so - and Ben Franklin responds, "Maybe so, but we won't be around to notice." And in general, the musical (at least in the movie version that I've seen, idk how it was as a stage production) ends on a fairly ambiguous note; it doesn't answer the question of whether the compromises are worth it. That said, while 1776 addresses the issue of slavery in the US, it also positions Thomas Jefferson as a) a soulful romantic and b) solidly on the side of abolishing slavery, two things that leave a bad taste in my mouth whenever I watch it, so... IDK where I'm going with this. Just somthing I'm gonna keep in mind when I watch Hamilton, I guess.

@thebrutusmars

2 жыл бұрын

@@theleakypen8662 Jefferson is interesting to me because he was strongly in favor of abolishing slavery nationwide when he was younger, but he seemed to calm down in his fervor later on. I read an article positing that as he got older, and his slaves were having kids, etc., he realized that slavery and the slave market was incredibly profitable. It’s not a claim above scrutiny, but it was interesting to me. It makes sense. Edit: for clarity, it’s not acceptable, but it makes sense that profit was a stronger drive than morals is all I meant.

"It's fucking great and I hate it." This statement sums up much of modern industrial life.

One argument in this essay that was really interesting to me was that the slave-owning characters in the play were likeable, and that's problematic. I agree with this point and it's undeniable! I find it interesting, though, because from the beginning of my engagement with the show I always found most of the characters (especially the politicians) to be deeply flawed and complicated. This was especially evident with Hamilton himself, of course, but I even saw flaws in Washington, who time and again didn't seem to understand the plight of others (Hamilton) from the position of privilege he had come from. And yet it's true, I liked Washington in the play, even loved him. That's a fact of consuming fiction - we enjoy characters in spite of their flaws, and even because of their flaws. But the key thing here is that in Hamilton, racism is never a seriously-considered flaw. I don't think Hamilton's storytelling and characterization is utterly flat and senseless to the history it portrays, but this is obviously a huge missing piece of the puzzle. I don't think I'll ever stop loving this play - after all, it is great art and it did change me and changed my life - but thanks to your video I'll endeavor to be more conscious of its cultural implications. Thankfully, I do personally think Hamilton is a work that invites critical thinking and personal reflection, or at least does moreso than most others. Its primary theme is, after all, about legacy, and to me the ending message tells its audience that while we have no control who writes our history, the future is still in our hands. That means doing all we can to find the truth and act on the moral implications that follow. In this way, Hamilton the play is both an example of its message and a hypocrisy. A paradox. Anyway, I might just be putting a personal spin on things you've already said, but what do you think?

@QueenRiveRose22

2 жыл бұрын

I loved your reflection and do think you make a good point about its focus on legacy!! So true. And its emblematic of a main motivation of Miranda, too....he's trying to make his stamp on the world in different ways....with In The Heights being a good example of him trying to elevate where he's from...and Hamilton...elevate himself in a way with this master work because he said Hamilton's preoccupation with time and morality resonated with him). I also agree with the musical highlighting these tensions, etc. It does that well. May I ask how the musical changed your life?

@CharlottePoe

2 жыл бұрын

@@QueenRiveRose22 That's another great insight! And I think that also highlights the difference of focus of In the Heights and Hamilton. They're both about legacy, but Heights focuses on a place and its community, with the characters being affected by it, while Hamilton focuses more on the people and how they affect the "new nation [they] now get to build." Hamilton was introduced to be by the woman who would eventually become my queerplatonic partner. It introduced me to genres of music I would never have appreciated otherwise. It informed me about the creation of the country I grew up in, especially in a way that I'd never heard before and gave me a new appreciation and curiosity for the subject. That might be the biggest thing: it inspired curiosity. "Quiet Uptown" was also hugely cathartic and formative for me. It became a part of my healing and coping experience as I dealt with the recent emotional betrayal of and subsequent estrangement from my father. Though I'm still distant from him for my own safety, Eliza's heroic act of forgiveness, her "grace too powerful to name," strengthened me in my resolve to forgive my father at least for my own sake. I had to so I could move on, take what good I could from my life, and tell the story through my deeds. "Forgiveness - can you imagine?" still gets me crying every time, because it really is the greatest miracle. It doesn't mean ignoring reality. It simply means freeing yourself from self-perpetuated hatred and hurt. It's an incredibly hard thing to do, but Hamilton framed it with a heroicism and strength that I wanted to emulate. Eliza and I also share a name! So that's cool

@QueenRiveRose22

2 жыл бұрын

@@CharlottePoe oh wow. That's pretty powerful. I can understand how those gifts of partnership, perspective, and forgiveness are very, very cherished. I, too, thought Eliza's arc was quite remarkable. Terrible losses, betrayal, and raising a bunch of kids (you probably know that Phillip wasn't the only one). I know other parts of her bio are complicated too...but helping to cement the legacy of a dude who betrayed her?! That lady is a master class in forgiveness and tapping into a purpose greater than your hurt. Thanks for sharing your reflections. Art is so powerful in the ways it can resonate with one's own experience and journey.

Your calm, balanced way of being critical and appreciative at the same time is exactly what I need in my life

@QueenRiveRose22

2 жыл бұрын

I really appreciated that,too, and that it wasn't a complete take-down. I've grappled with the paradox of Hamilton for years as a conscious Black woman.....and musical theater nerd (...who even went to musical theater summer camp in high school). The musical has so much 'patriotic mythology' as another commenter said...and erasure! Lin-Manuel Miranda once said that Hamilton is "American then told by America now"...overlooking that Indigenous Nations AND Black people existed at the time of America's founding but he didn't think to elevate their presence or narratives in the place! So the basic premise is off. But his other intention was to craft a narrative around Hamilton's "immigrantness" and to celebrate it. Both of these premises are complex and then seriously overlook the issues of enslavement and genocide that the Founding Fathers perpetuated. So on that level the musical is super trash. Lol. But for my inner 16yo who desired to be a musical theater actress in New York....who didn't take her passion any further than freshman year of college because she didn't see content that reflected her culture, being, inflections or hair texture, Hamilton was/is EVERYTHING. Lol. I've listened to the soundtrack 100s of times at this point and Schuyler Sisters, My Shot, Wait for It and Non-Stop can still make me cry on a given day because of my yearning for that lost aspiration of expressing my creative gifts on the stage..... It's a flawed but incredible piece of art that will create a whole generation of content creators of color who will tell more meaningful, accurate and liberatory stories on the stage. And it's a gift that has brought us great talents like Anthony Ramos and Jasmine Cephas Jones who are skimming the surface of their deep wells of creative genius. And I greatly appreciate Lin-Manuel Miranda for his (imperfect lol) contribution to making that happen! :)

I’ve never wanted to see Hamilton. 1. I don’t like watching productions about the foundations the US, it creeps me out a bit. 2. When I heard the rapping in passing when my friends were playing the music I mentally checked out. But imma watch this because this is the only way I’ll actually see any of it.

@girlybaker1241

2 жыл бұрын

My feelings exactly!!

@glowdoll183

2 жыл бұрын

I’ll never watch not even to give a accurate opinion of it. I won’t continue to support the passive celebration of white supremacy dressed in passive aggressive 16 bars for white ppl to consume. They can keep this mess.

@NATE-bz7mx

2 жыл бұрын

it's pretty mid imo, at least musically speaking. Pretty good play theatrically, but clearly flawed and like our guy said, "it's slave masters rapping," there's a lot of cognitive dissonance that's needed to make it palatable.

@xXSprMgaAwsmFxyHtXx

2 жыл бұрын

I love hip-hop and I partook in musical theater while Hamilton was released and I just felt like it was bad hip-hop that only works because it’s being used in musical theater

The way that I generally think about the musical Hamilton is that, if racism didn’t exist, this is how our “founding fathers” would look. This way of thinking honestly helps me get past the dissonance when watching it. I look at Hamilton as a prettier alternative universe.

@ThunderTaker1215

2 жыл бұрын

You worded this so well, I totally agree.

@dezbiggs6363

2 жыл бұрын

I think if it as fictional and with as many inaccuracies as there are, it's not that hard

@buduhanfamily2419

2 жыл бұрын

firstly, i agree completely. secondly, finally someone calling it a musical!!! it's. not. a. play.

@lafleursdumal1047

2 жыл бұрын

@@buduhanfamily2419 who cares, idgaf about that shittyass musical

@buduhanfamily2419

2 жыл бұрын

@@lafleursdumal1047 you mean hamilton? then... why did you click on this video?

The best contrast to Hamilton that I’ve seen is Soft Power. I saw it as a preview run a couple years after Hamilton came out, and I realized what the problem was. Hamilton tries to force people of color into the mainstream white American narrative as a means to gain acceptance and assimilation. In 2015, more people thought that would work. The difference is that, when you see a show like Soft Power, which has an entirely Chinese cast and is about Chinese people and centers the narrative around them, it’s a more affirmative appropriation of the white mainstream. It’s an assertion of a right to have culture, rather than trying to ask nicely to be let into white culture.

On that note on the musical's dissonance, I was rewatching it with a female friend also pointed out the fact that every female character is basically just a love interest to Hamilton. And their introduction song is simply them repeating "work" over and over while none of the actual work they've done is shown.

Lin Manuel Miranda is a brilliant songwriter and has a unique level of mastery of his craft. He is also an american of Puerto Rican descent who wrote a character whose name is a homage to a weapon of USA imperialism. In a way, he is a perfect fit for Disney's current woke environment: looks great, sounds great and doesn't make white people uncomfortable.

@jinakaye

2 жыл бұрын

I thought he was Dominican…

@hcxpl1

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't call it an homage, although I wouldn't say he challenged anyone's worldview by doing that, it does seem like it was a tongue-in-cheek kinda joke about things like that happening in real life and somewhat exactly about how imperialism kinda acculturates people. But I agree with you that he seems to want to show these issues without making people uncomfortable, which, although has its uses, seem to only make them more complacent thinking there's nothing wrong with the system anymore.

@josearagaojr.3016

2 жыл бұрын

@@hcxpl1 Hey, man. I feel u. I know what you mean and where you coming from. Hell, a few years ago I'd be the one sending the same message u sent. The thing is I don't believe anyone gets the privileged position Mr. Miranda got without the assurance that his political position wouldn't change in the foreseeable future. I do believe that he thinks one could achieve an "American" status by showing wasps that he or others like him could achive financial prosperity through the profit-driven ways that is marketed to anyone who isn't a WASP. Unfortunately, it seems to be one of the MANY ways wasps keep the control over all the other worker bees like us.

@hcxpl1

2 жыл бұрын

@@josearagaojr.3016 Na real eu diria que é isso que acontece qnd os meios de produção e distribuição de conteúdo (Hollywood, Broadway, etc) são controlados por uma minoria, não somente eles definem quem vai ser ouvido como qualquer pessoa que quer ser ouvida acaba que tendo que se assimilar, tirando qualquer teor revolucionário de seu trabalho e o destilando em puro entretenimento: apolítico, um espetáculo, como diria Guy Debord.

@hcxpl1

2 жыл бұрын

@@josearagaojr.3016 Não posso falar de aculturação e dps continuar usando a língua imperialista sabendo q tava falando com br😛. (eu sei q pt é de Portugual mas aí já n se tem muito o q fazer) Esse Jones Manoel eu nao tinha ouvido falar não mas sempre bom conhecer mais canais de qualidade, ainda mais nacionais.

I think the play did what it was intended to do. As you pointed out this play was targeted towards an upper class yt audience. It was meant to entertain the yts with black music in theatre. And make liberal yts feel like racism is an issue of the past and we’ve made great progress from Hamilton’s era

@BrandonGiordano

2 жыл бұрын

I mean we have, but you look at theater people in general and it's usually yt upper class people anyway. I don't think it was intentional directed toward them. That's just theater in general

@unapologeticyoutuber

2 жыл бұрын

Idk when you actually listen to the world's you can tell nothing had changed this play even mentioned how the war didn't change slavery but slaves fought in it Also alot of songs where deleted and put in the soundtrack mistake

@adrenalynn1015

2 жыл бұрын

Yes to all this. And it can also make white liberals feel like they’re actively doing something about racism. “I’m supporting Black artists!” “I’m listening to hip hop instead of disapproving of it!” “I’m learning about slavery!” Ick.

@princemwamba5230

2 жыл бұрын

@@unapologeticyoutuber naw you can still tell things are diffrent

@ashleygraham1011

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a white liberal. I just felt like the slavery bit was left lingering in the background, much like it was then. It was a sidebar but not the point of the story. I don't think white people in general feel like they are doing anything for POC when they see theater like this either. Race has not been a central concern for us like it has for POC.

I think one other thing that shifted between the initial release and the film release was whether Hamilton was veritable. I remember when it originally came out thinking of it as an alternate retelling, a story inspired by history. As it grew in popularity I remember a shift to it being sold more along the lines of "history come to life" or "a good way to teach kids history" which it's not. It's a fantasy. And that fantasy was more palatable in 2014.

For some reason I find the fact that Lin Manuel Miranda was bullied by Immortal Technique hilarious. Not that there is anything funny about bullying in general, but it just seems so on the nose for the personalities of those two

@QueenRiveRose22

2 жыл бұрын

Yes...Lin's super pluckyness and being a musical theater nerd lol

I've heard so many people ask the question "should we judge historical figures by modern standards of morality" and the question is always incredible to me. Like, 1 yes because that's what standards are for, and 2 do we think they just didn't know they were doing something wrong? The question itself implies the old adage "they were a product of their time" but that erases the voices of those fighting for justice even in those days, and it erases the ability of these people to think for themselves. Yes, it was likely much harder for the average person to be educated about black commodification or to even see black people as people, but there's a willingness to that ignorance that gets lost when we shove off the burden of blame to "the times". Like OK how did the times get like that, and how did they stay like that, and do you think people just woke up one day and decided actually slavery is bad? Or maybe some people had been saying that since slavery started and it took over 100 years for the political climate to shift enough for anyone to start listening.

“Nod along to the rhymes of history’s greatest hypocrites.” Something about that phrase is so important and poetic.

When he said the only way we could see the flaws of our founding fathers was to see them with black faces…..that part shook me. Totally went right over my head even tho I felt like I totally got the subtext before. Great GREAT video thank you for this. Also the part about somehow post Malone is still somehow around 🤣🤣🤣

That's a lot to think about, as a white guy who's a big fan of the show. Thanks for making this.

I felt so uncomfortable after watching Hamilton on July 4th, I couldn't articulate it at all at the time, but you saying cognitive dissonance is perfect. That is exactly what I felt, this incredible work of art in contrast with the horrendous subjet matter - they made the villians into heros and it feels strange.

Well said. You said what I didn't have the words to say. When you said if all the actors were white would it hit the same, NOPE. You hit the nail on the head when you said that white audiences don't understand the tacitly nuance hence why many still think that "The Help" and "The Green Book" were feel good movies. That's my issue. I wouldn't dislike Hamilton if people understood the double entendre besides seeing black folk jiving for them. I often recount this Dave Chappelle clip. There's a difference when people laugh with you and at you. Thanks for analysis.

I appreciated how you were able to critique the musical and it’s meaning while still appreciating it as a work of art. Your essay has been enlightening. Your channel has a great future!

Sometimes I watch or listen to Hamilton with a deep longing, because like you said it harkens back to a more innocent time in which I could believe the character that Lin portrayed, and not just believe it but see the actors AS those fictional founding fathers I’d been told so much about. Those fictional founding fathers I did school plays about, that I’d written papers on, and looked up to with awe. I think it was the conflicting emotions of my childhood self wanting to believe that the people I’d learned about would value me; all while my current self sees the legitimate skeletons of my ancestors, of me as I live and die in their evolved racist system, in their closets. Hamilton is a good fantasy, made with good intentions, but its sort of insidious too.

@sophiatalksmusic3588

2 жыл бұрын

Unrelated, but are you a writer? You make a good point, but also, from a literary standpoint, that's a wonderfully composed comment.

Thanks for adding the audience as a piece of what makes it problematic. A play about rapping slavemasters, which is more accessible to the descendants of slavemasters than those of the slaves makes it feel almost propagandistic.

This is beautifully done. Your analysis is so resonant and I'm excited to learn and think more critically as I explore the rest of your videos

Forgive me because I haven't actually watched Hamilton, I don't care for stories about the Founding Fathers because I grew up in an area where their names were used for horrible words and actions and knowing their backstories I can't see them as heroes. This musical just felt like conservative propaganda with a liberal face. Maybe I'll see it differently if I actually watched the musical but I've never really had a desire to watch/read anything about the Founding Fathers(tm) because there are far, far, far, more interesting aspects of America's history that nobody is talking about and I'd rather see a play on those topics than another praiseworthy look at old white men who fought for their own reasons and different groups took different meanings to what they did and ran with it. Like you can go on about free speech and democracy but honestly America is a joke. We're the supervillain of the world and so seeing anything acting like we're some great beacon of freedom when we're run by billionaires, corporations, shady politicians, etc. feels like a joke. It just feels like a way to ignore that by more mythologizing a shit country because maybe the roots of it were that of an underdog, but we're far from that now.

@QueenRiveRose22

2 жыл бұрын

@Kit Duguay I think that it makes sense he thinks this way. His dad is/was an electoral political consultant. I think he was raised in an environment that appreciated America's institutions and structures, and there was an investment in them (because it was the source of their livelihood and may just believed in this aspirational America). And people write what they think and know....he couldn't create a piece of art deeply critical of the founders of this American ideal that his father plays an active role in uplifting and furthering. Not saying it makes it ok.....but it explains it. It's why we would never get an overly black consciousness or agenda from Barack Obama or anything overly critical about the fundamental nature of America. At his core and despite history and an honest telling of history, at his core, Barack Obama believes in the ideals of this country and that racism is borne of ignorance and misunderstanding and not white people's investment in using whiteness to accumulate power and wealth. Black people waiting for an explicitly Black political agenda were waiting for and wanting something from him that he just wasn't able to give because he has a different worldview.

@peterschilling2724

2 жыл бұрын

There is nothing wrong with America that can’t be fixed by what’s right with America

You take me back to the moments that I first saw Hamilton on Disney+ in early 2021. It occurred to me several times while watching... "what about the slaves?". But, I kept pushing it aside. I settled on the notion that if the topic was explored in the play, that the other themes of these characters would be crowded out and never heard. Your words in this "Breakdown" help me to see how far, in my perception, that the "needle has moved" in just the time since this play was written. If I had seen Hamilton in 2015, I never would have even had those thoughts that "slavery" was missing.

My immediate reaction was the relatability of the characters, and for me seeimg people of color perform this reinforced the idea that "this is my history too." That these things they fought for were also on par with what we are fighting for now. And there was artistic liberties taken with the characters like insinuating that hamilton's buddies were all poor and fighting the ruling class(they were rich with the exception of hamilton) that directly relates to the oppressed. That made it more like allegory than an actual retelling of history and glorifying white supremacists. Slavery wasn't addressed because that's not the story he was trying to tell. And as a black woman who felt traumatized by these slave narratives as a kid, to the point where anything with slaves made me feel ill to my stomach, i appreciated it for making it more about a revolution than another sobering commentary on slavery. And the play you described doesn't seem like something I'd want to watch. It doesn't sound like something as inspiring. Again seeing people who looked like me who were founding fathers and major players in the revolutionary brought home that this is just as much my history as it is theirs. I have no illusions about who these people are but I can relate to the struggle. And as so many think pieces have said far better than me, black americans have continued to speak truth to power and precipitate the numerous revolutions that followed. And I am aware that black people played a huge role in the revolutiom war. Hercules Mulligan's slave gathered all kinds of intel that gave us advantages in certain battles. He didn't get the accolades he deserved but i'd have never heard of him had i not been inspired to research these people.

Musicals often have a premise of someone telling the story. Hamilton could have had another layer presented as the slaves putting on a show mocking their owners, for other slaves while their masters were out fighting the revolution.

@QueenRiveRose22

2 жыл бұрын

....your point here is why I'd love to see some good HamilFan fiction! There are creative works that are in conversation with other works and it'd be cool to see Hamilton answered by a piece that does a more honest telling. It makes me think of The 1619 Project. It'd be cool if someone staged certain pieces of that history. It'd be hard though because some themes can't be tackled with as much pluck and pomp as Hamilton lol which are Lin-Manuel Miranda's default vibration.

I love studying the Founding Fathers (not in a venerating way, but in an "interesting historical figures" way) and "history's greatest hypocrites" is the perfect description. Thank you so much for this.

Your essays are very thought provoking and I love that

I always think about how the Tupac musical didn't get off-broadway & I remember that being the first rap musical. The rapping slave masters musical took off

@QueenRiveRose22

2 жыл бұрын

Very observant point. A Tupac musical would have presented similarly difficult-to-reconcile paradoxes and character dimensions though....

@WhayYay

2 жыл бұрын

@@QueenRiveRose22 You're trying to say tupac did some bad stuff right?

@QueenRiveRose22

2 жыл бұрын

@@WhayYay I'm saying he was complicated and had contradictions, particularly in regard to his relationships with women.

@QueenRiveRose22

2 жыл бұрын

@@WhayYay but he's also beloved for various reasons including by women

@QueenRiveRose22

2 жыл бұрын

True. But Thomas Jefferson is also beloved. I think the larger point is there are few figures that are "pure" or "good" and didn't have shortcomings that wouldn't have to be discussed with honest storytelling.

I agree with everything you are saying, and you once again opened my eyes to points of views I didn't have. One thing I don't think you touched on at all is the context around why Manuel made Hamilton and into the heigts was because he and his friends couldn't get jobs on broadway because of their skincolor. Producers and writers refused in any way to let black people portray anything except black people on stage, and with most plays on broadway being about white people, that left them without an in. He wrote Hamilton and cast it with black people to prove a point - that the color of your skin doesn't matter, only your talent in portraying your character. Because of this, I went to see Phantom of The Operah in when I lived in North Carolina, with a black man as the Phantom. And when he took his mask off, he didn't have any scars. It was so powerful, thinking of it is giving me chills right now. Many producers on Broadway has since stated the Manuel was right and has started casting black, brown and native actors in roles they couldn't have before because their skin didn't match that of the historical figure.

I think if Cabinet Battle 3 wasn't cut from the play it really would have put things in perspective and make the play less problematic in that regard

@blue-pi2kt

2 жыл бұрын

I agree but its also incredibly challenging to produce a concise and entertaining product, where you also create a nuanced dialogue about these matters.

Your video essays really help me cement and solidify the concepts I’ve been trying to internalize but haven’t quite “figured out”. The prose here is *great* and does more to help me understand than a more clinical or dryly philosophical expression might. I’m coming into this video after watching your take on Bo Burnham (which went over my head because I haven’t watched Bo Burnham) and deciding that I needed more context for the philosophical frameworks you were building. This seemed like a... decent place to start, at first glance? And I was surprised, because it felt like such a natural, solid progression even backwards through time. The way you express these concepts is rock solid. Having access to literature I can *understand* is awesome. Thank you so much.

As a white fan of this musical, you summed up perfectly why this is a complicated watch. Stylistically and talent-wise it's fantastic and it makes you want to sing along. Conceptually though, it makes me uncomfortable because of the dissonance you mentioned - there's always that creeping sense that I'm enjoying something exploitative

The way you boiled down Hamilton to “rapping slave masters” in the thumbnail is pretty funny.

What's especially interesting is that Ron Chernow, whose biography the show is ostensibly based on, is quite laudably dedicated to not letting his subjects off the hook for any issues where conservatives would argue "It was a different time." His book on George Washington even outright says it would be nice if he was this flawless guy we could unquestionably look up to, but he wasn't, and Chernow's not going to pretend he was.

The moment that took me out of it was when Hamilton yelled "Call me son one more time!" My first thought was: oh, he's pandering. After that, I couldn't unsee it.

Completely agree with you. I would add also that as an afrolatina, one of my main criticisms of Hamilton (and every LMM work) is that it puts white latinos as people of color like they aren't descendants from our versions of the Washingtons and Jeffersons.

@maxattack3853

2 жыл бұрын

how does Hamilton portray white latinos as PoC? They aren't PoC, but why does it matter if they are decedents of those people?

Thank you for making this - I love Hamilton and I understand for Lin-Manual his fascination with the character was as an immigrant founding father in our culture where immigrants are often seen so negatively. BUT when I was watching it I also felt deeply uncomfortable about the roles given to people of colour of what is an essentially revisionist view of history that completely excludes that all of these people were slave owners.

@scorpiocarnage1055

2 жыл бұрын

@Ramon Borlongan Hamilton hated immigrants - sliding that fact in there. But I will argue where you were born did have an affect on how you were treated. The English were VERY nationalist and xenophobic. "Oh, you're a Scot? You're nothing but northern trash. You're grandma was Irish? The Irish are made to be beneath the boot heel. Welsh? We'll pretend you don't exist." We already know what they thought of Native Americans and Africans. The only question is whether Hamilton actually faced this attitude when coming to the American colony which becomes the United States. He could blend in with the "dominant" race.

@scorpiocarnage1055

2 жыл бұрын

@Ramon Borlongan No it isn't a word, haha. But good try. That is true, too. If you were related to someone influential, you bragged about it back then.

@MrSkeltal268

2 жыл бұрын

My problem with Hamilton is that he was America's first prominent war monger, and arguably, pushed forward the notion of "dirty politics". His ideologies were largely sided with shaping American into an Empire ala the British Empire Part 2 if you will.

I’m a certified theatre nerd and when I first heard Hamilton I was so compelled by how intricately placed everything was, that I utterly ignored all cognitive dissonance I felt and then just didn’t really examine that sense much at all afterwards because I was still blown away. This is very probably the video of yours that I most need to see.

"Good art makes you think. Great art makes you change." Facts

wow. such a great take on Hamilton. I've been wanting to see it. Idk how this popped up on feed but im glad it did. I''ll be back after I watch it. Thanks.

14:39 The actor that plays George Washington is also from a town called Cairo, Illinois. A town that has been well documented for its history of severe racial problems that ultimately have left it crippled and dying

This gave me so much to think about. What movie are you going to review next? I want more! Thanks for not making me feel bad about still liking Hamilton, lol.

This was a great video, all the points you made were so good and it just made me think “damn I wish I could’ve watched this video 4-5 years ago”

This was a wonderful and nuanced video essay! I’m a Hamilton fan because the songs, stories, and performers are just so damn good, but always had those uncomfortable feelings about it too. Subscription earned!

Okay as a kid and even now, I was always terrified of blackface. It always scared and unsettled me and made me cry because it looked *wrong*. I wasn’t watching blackface content in the terms of comedy but a show or something would be talking about it or I’d see a photo of a white person in blackface, and it would scared me. And when I got older and was told what it was and how it was racist “comedy”, I couldn’t understand how people could stand to look at someone in blackface and not genuinely be scared of it. Kids can tell what is real and what is fake in a way that is different from how adults can. They will see a mask and know that’s it’s not real but in a way that is processed as “this is fake, and I don’t understand why it is here or why it exists” and get scared. It’s part of why kids cry when they see the Easter Bunny or a lot of Santas in the malls or Halloween masks because a part of them know this is fake, it looks and feels wrong. So when I saw blackface I didn’t know how else to react other than in fear because it disturbed me as a small child even without understanding the context of its meaning. I know now what it was used for but I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that people thought it was funny

Great work. You clearly put a lot of thought into this. You should definitely do more of these and you clearly have the voice for it! Sidenote dissonance, yes, “cognitive dissonance”...not so much...

@FDSignifire

4 жыл бұрын

Sometimes i get so far up my own ass with my vocabulary I mix up my terms. What's the real difference there?

@thac0twenty377

2 жыл бұрын

@@FDSignifire Hey man. cognitive dissonance Is where your internal monolog and thought processes dont match up with your actions. Dissonance is external, cognitive dissonance would be internal. how it was explained to me is this. Yiu need to change the tire on your car, so you go out and do it. Except your actually changing the oil. No matter how many people ask why you're changing the oil, you can't accept that and insist you're changing the tire. It applies more to left leaders who try too hard to show how they aren't racist and end up being racist than the right leaders who take it ad point of pride.

@realMacMadame

2 жыл бұрын

@@thac0twenty377 I don't think that's cognitive dissonance. When I was taking a psychology class, it was explained to me as when you see evidence that proves A but you see it as proving not A because you don't believe A, you believe not A. So in studies, they show you a picture of a black woman doctor but you remember it as a white man because you think only white men can be doctors. Or you remember her as a nurse even if the picture has her name as Dr. Sally Jones. The psychology world has started to use "confirmation bias" instead because it's clearer, btw.

@PunkZombie1300

2 жыл бұрын

@@realMacMadame Confirmation bias is exclusively accepting evidence that supports point A but ignoring evidence that supports point B. For example: citing five studies that conclude that birds aren't dinosaurs while ignoring 10,000 other studies that say they are. The evidence points towards point B being correct, but you cherrypick the evidence that supports point A. Cognitive Dissonance is believing in two contradictory things. It seems to be what FD was going for in the sense of "believing" (as in suspending your disbelief) that the Founding Fathers were more progressive, not owning slaves/calling out the people who did (a la Jefferson), etc., while also knowing that the historical reality was the complete opposite.

@realMacMadame

2 жыл бұрын

@@PunkZombie1300 I think you misread what I said. These studies are on cognitive dissonance and show that people will misremember what you show them to match what they already believe. It's not someone cherry picking one study that matches what they believe.

12:11 Ooof 🤣 you didn't have to do her like that. Great video! I've always wondered about this and you put it into words better than anyone else I've seen!

Wrestling is the greatest form of theatre

That Porgy and Bess tour was amazing, I got to catch it in Seattle. I've been singing a version of summertime since my first gig over a decade ago, but the meaning always went over my head. That show made me a better performer, and inspired me to get some really invaluable voice lessons.

I’d like to add as a Puerto Rican is that Lin Manuel Miranda himself has supported very colonial solutions for Puerto Rico’s issues including the current policy that has greatly accelerated gentrification. His father is also incredibly connected to the Puerto Rican owning and privileged political class. I know this last one from personal connections that told me they played golf with his dad

Fiq keep doin you!! You are a much needed voice in the cacophony right now, and a light worker for sure!! Thank you!!

i've had a few misgivings about hamilton for a couple of years now, and haven't really seen any good analysis of that whole affair until today. you've managed to clearly elaborate a set of positions that i have only ever briefly touched on in rambling conversations with friends and family. bravo!

LMAO, he was bullied by immortal technique 🤣 hell, I would probably get bullied by immortal technique today for wearing skirts and still put his music on 🤣 the man brings so much content to his songs. (And no, dance with the devil is not his greatest work. I think it's insanely sad so many people think this). What is sadder is that in America, I could teach a black boy or girl more about black history with immortal techniques albums as a primary source material than using the source material of high school/middle school history books.

@sageschroeder

Жыл бұрын

You’re absolutely right about that. Harlem Streets alone has more depth than most history texts. His work is something everyone should hear to better understand things, from black and brown peoples experiences in the Americas, poverty and racism, cartels and the drug trade, and the corruption and conspiracy of the US government. Howard Zinn’s US history book is a similarly thorough resource, if I had to think of a textbook. Dance with the devil is shocking and sad but I never thought of it as his greatest. I’m surprised people think so, and it makes me wonder if they just weren’t exposed to more of his work. Perhaps the song just has the most lasting emotional impact on people because it’s just so visceral. I think the skirt definitely might give him pause at the very least. 😂

I like your logic and reasoning, but I disagree that the response to the play wouldn't have been the same or near if the cast were all white. Reason being, historically white people performing black art is the ultimate goal, proximity to blackness without black people is always popular. Elvis, Eminem, Tic Tok celebrities, etc. .

@seroquelz

2 жыл бұрын

Hit different doesn't necessarily equate to success. Given the clip he used of that beauty pagent contestant (?) trying her best to sing I'm Telling You, the tone and performance depth would definitely be lacking. It might have been successful bt lacking....flavor.

@p4rt_t1me_g0d

2 жыл бұрын

@@seroquelz White people have gotten better at mimicking the nuances of black people, Post Malone, Justin Timberlake, Jon B., Bieber, Joe Scudda, Jack Harlow, etc. Remember when Pink first dropped There You Go? They get praise and get elevated for doing what we get ridiculed and criticized for. It goes way beyond entertainment, lip injections, butt lifts, hair styles, in addition to how many white women are naturally curvy now on top of that !

This is a perfect video. A perfect essay. A perfect everything. Thank you for this. Never hit a subscribe button so hard in my life.

I loved everything about this video. Your thorough and measured analysis of the ways in which Hamilton fails to deliver the same message to all audiences neatly and completely summed up (in a way I couldn’t quite articulate, even in my own mind) my discomfort with every incidence of my non-PoC friends/ acquaintances coming to me to sing its praises - me, a Black woman who hasn't been particularly fond of most of the hip-hop I’ve heard since I reached my majority (I’m old, and I like the soundtrack of my childhood) - expecting me to moved by their enthusiasm. Bravo.

That Fergie insert was shady af 🤣🤣🤣 i never saw this play, though i was encouraged to when it came to LA.

Thank you for pointing out why I've always been hesitant about Hamilton. The swapping the skintone thought experiment was what I needed.

Glad someone pointed out the joke of those ticket prices...

These are some of the most thoughtful and educated comments I've ever seen on KZread. Holy shit, it's refreshing. I learned from this video and then I learned from lots of the comments. Ima rewatch with all this new perspective in mind and I'm already feeling some discomfort just thinking about it. Hamilton may not be "great art" as you put it, but with your supplemental analysis all combined, it becomes great because it's already changing me.

Hamilton is a good starting point for those individuals who say “I’m not racist, I have black friends.” Or “slavery was years ago. Black people need to get over it”. In my opinion, I think situation like these opens the conversation for more having deep.

I really appreciate your thoughts on this, especially your commentary about how the people who had the disposable income to be able to see the show when it first aired are also the ones least likely to fully grasp the message. I do still enjoy the show for the music and the choreography and the costumes, but the play as it stands doesn't really offer much for those who don't have the context of who these people actually were. That being said, I do like that it gives so much emphasis to Eliza, but that's a different read on the material entirely.

I always learn so much from your videos, thank you!

I always enjoy your videos and your perspective. As always, wonderful and thought out!

I'm not sure how I ended on your channel but I fucking love it and been binging it

It's always pretty interesting to think about how things would be written differently if they were written today. Hamilton is one of the ones that would be very different written today, I think.

@xXSprMgaAwsmFxyHtXx

2 жыл бұрын

It wouldn’t have been made probably

Bruh, I loved Hamilton... and damn you, you are 100% right.

"Good art makes you think, great art makes you change" is one hell of a line FD Signifier

Thank you. There’s a part of me that feels guilty for enjoying Hamilton for these very reasons. I love it as a piece of art, but its problems are real and deserve discussion. You explained how I feel about this play better than I ever could have.

Oh man. That bit with you saying the image of the US has gone down hill recently and dating it as a post 2015 thing sounds different if you grew up in the Middle East. I mean I chuckled but... you guys really think the US was liked within the last 4-5 decades in most of the world? Damn.

I agree with a lot of this; having read into Hamilton and his biographies though i take issue with a line at 11:00 mark, he himself never owned slaves (but he had involvement in the trade in ways - one of his first jobs he had to work for a company that worked with slaves, his wife’s family itself originally had slaves etc). The hard thing is in that day and age, even if you wanted nothing to do with it, everything around you had a connection to slaves (eg go to the shop to buy food, it was probably picked and grown by slaves). Or, invest your money, it’s probably going to go to a slave company before your return (similar to how modern investing may lead your money to go to oil or cigarette companies)

@droprelease4820

Жыл бұрын

But yes by the same token everything in history is connected and often the wars and issues now are due to instigating and continuous issues from decades and centuries ago

Thank you so much for creating these videos and giving your commentary ❤️

i appreciated the entertainment of hamilton as a play, as well as the sort of... uncomfortableness you feel deep down (esp as someone who isn't black) about the fact that it doesn't really go into slavery. i reckon it's definitely something that's meant to make you reflect and/or educate yourself on american history. what's also nice is seeing a play that would've likely been 99% white *not* played by white people, and not done in a... decidedly white way, yknow? idk if i've phrased what i'm thinking very well but.,, basically what i'm trying to get at is tht i appreciate how it's not just another standard "white people play"

@melliem7481

2 жыл бұрын

THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, x 1.000.000.000!!!!!

As a musical nerd, composer, female, white American, I also experienced a cognitive dissonance at first with Hammy because of the version of American history I learned, as well as Hip Hop not being one of the music genres I was immersed in (beyond what was directly marketed to white audiences... I bought Baby Got Back as a cassette single in 6th grade....etc), I found Hammy actually helps me connect more to aspects of American history I can be proud of, as well as basically teaching me the language of Hip Hop that I didn't understand, couldn't relate to... I have long had cognitive dissonance about how to be proud of this country, proud of our orgins etc while looking around and seeing that not only are so many suffering still in this country, but globally "we" have been ashholes for a long time too. I'm finally able to start understanding I don't really know the true history of this country, despite a liberal arts college education. (Sociology Minor!) Because of platforms like Netflix and KZread, I am able to hear stories from creators who prob wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity to tell their stories. I'm listening and learning and seeking out the stories and voices of my fellow BIPOC Americans that have been white washed away in our stories, diminished to tropes created in the white imagination. I'm finding the white patriarchal structure becoming visible to me, which I know seems bonkers to some BIPOCs that it's been so obvious to their whole lives. Back to Hammy, I echo an idea Daveed Diggs mentioned, that by viewing our history with a diverse group of performers, the subtext says everyone deserves the implicit rights set out by our founding fathers. Maybe they fell way short, but here we are now and though we've changed some the last 400 years, a lot hasn't changed. Hammy gives me hope for a future in this country, and I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing school productions for a long time as at some point it will be very affordable for a school to put on a production. Lin-Manuel made sure of that. I also have a deeper appreciation and understanding of Hip Hop and the culture around it that honestly my privilege kept me from understanding even the staple braggidocio behaviors. So, I do agree that in a way Lin-Manuel took an underground artform that had already been exploited for white audiences, and by putting it into musical theater context does make it even more consumable by white audiences. I was honestly late to the Hammy craze, but I got a cam version and since almost the entire show is on the cast album I was able to learn it. It was no mistake the movie came out when it did. It was slated for release this year, but when Pandemica hit Lin-Manuel convinced Disney to move up the release date. It is the only reason I have Disney + still. I love musicals, I'm actually writing one now about The Crossroads.... (yes I am aware of the problematic issue of a white woman composing a musical about the Crossroads, the Blues, a faustian bargain or christian misinterpretation of a Hoodoo trickster... etc) I really appreciate your takes and views on Hammy!! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings about all the content you do!! I appreciate you!!!👊🏻🤟🏻🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶💙

@FDSignifire

3 жыл бұрын

There's so much here. Firstly I'm honored to have been a part of this thoughtfulness. Also I agree and definitely see all of that cognitive dissonance, it's really a baseline state of blackness.

@TheoCynical

2 жыл бұрын

It's great that this is a spiritual win for black people but it's still a bougie take and a bastardization of the black urban medium of HipHop. What's next? Kool-Aid styrofoam pops being sold for $100? I'm joking (I hope...) It's great news that you are doing your own homework and taking your own responsibility in seeing how America's duality and dissonance have been consistently acted out for decades. We just; like what Dave Chappelle mentioned in one of his videos of correcting a white women on the context of being black in america, need "critical mass" of this awareness and responsibility. We don't need trends or fads. We need some actual critical thought & humility to actually see what America has done to its fellow humans. Seeing the artistic genius of Hamilton as a way to passively justify America's historical injustice while making note of our achievements is...it's not enough but, its steps to a tipping point. But it won't get there until that moment of clarity and humility comes and appropriate reparative action is given. After appropriate action is GIVEN, THEN these spiritual success stories can be appreciated because the context is finally appreciated. For now, it's like liberal feel good trash about rapping slave owners, not black people finally being whoever they want to be as freedmen as their own 'founding fathers' under the context of hiphop.

Thank you so much for sharing this analysis. It's one of the few places (of not the only place) that I have heard thought shared about the play that mirrored my own.

This video was incredibly enlightening and your video style was very enjoyable. You gave me a lot to think about, and I am genuinely excited to see what other vids you do in rhe future.