**IMPORTANT** Hey guys! I've tried to avoid putting a pinned comment here for quite some time, but I feel it is now important to do so, as some people seem to be misunderstanding a point made in this video and I have been receiving several rude and presumptuous messages and even threats surrounding something a small k-tuber happened to say in a video! so here goes... In point 4 where I am discussing the way in which some idols 'feign ignorance' when it comes to their racism scandals, please kindly note that I of course am VERY aware that the education may not be in place in South Korea to teach youngsters the importance of cultural diversity. I'm not expecting an idol who has never left Korea to understand how every country's culture works simply off their own backs. HOWEVER, please also remember that another huge aspect of racial discrimination is the mockery of another culture besides your own, usually in an offensive way. And although an idol may not know that wearing certain clothing or saying certain words is offensive (as I mentioned in the video), you do NOT need to have any education in racial issues to know that 'poking fun' at any culture that is not your own is completely wrong. This is more of a reflection on who you are as person, and how you treat other people regardless of their background. And unfortunately, this is the sort of inappropriate behaviour that idols are frequently being excused for on the grounds of 'they do not know any better' or 'they do not use the internet much'. But you do not need to grow up in a multi-cultural society, have access to the internet, or speak English even, to know that it is absolutely WRONG to mock or make fun of another individual's ethnicity and/or race etc, regardless of your background. I really hope this makes sense and helps clear up any confusion you may have before deciding to mock MY background (the irony, I know), call me 'uneducated' or discriminatory, and make threats against me. I would have much preferred people ask me to elaborate before jumping to such extremes. Aside from this, thank you so much as always for watching, especially to those who comment respectfully, you know I love and appreciate you always! 💖

@StreamHypeBoyByNewJeans

Жыл бұрын

No one gives a damn shush

For the last one is that, if idols ever speak for themselves, their fans will become their haters real quick.

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

Oh 100%!

@Rossellinique

Жыл бұрын

It depends, sometimes no, when idols since the beginning set the border that fans understand, eg Heechul from Super Junior of who many fans were scared and never dared to be too close to him when they were outside because he always stood for himself. Another one i remember is N from VIXX, he scolded fans when they were spying on him while he had free time and was with his family, the fandom took his side and situation never happened again. But when since beginning you blatantly act as their boyfriend/girlfriend say "we belong to each other' 'you can't have boyfriend'' ''don't cheat one me'' to them then sorynotsorry but some people start taking it way too serious even though it's nonsense, at least it jus makes things worse.

@shizukagozen777

Жыл бұрын

@@Rossellinique But the problem is that you never know how those freaks will react...

@ABC-sz7rd

Жыл бұрын

yep. they do this to keeho from p1harmony. they hate on him and accuse him of “being rude” or “tryna be different” just because he’s a straight foward person who speaks up when somebody is being weird to him. they’re not used to idols actually saying what they want and speaking their actual opinions a lot of times. they just get mad at him because he’s not putting on a fake personality for the camera lol.

@sweetdaydreamer8868

Жыл бұрын

@@dearyoongi more so if they're girls

the Kim Lip situation is so heartbreaking to me, I’m glad she was able to show her emotions and leave the stage because she was upset, she had every right to do so and I’m very proud of her, the behaviour of the ‘fans’ in that show was disgraceful and can’t be justified in any situation, despite the company siding with the fans I’d like to think all orbits know that the people in the audience were at fault here

@Sammmm85

Жыл бұрын

and the worst is people are blaming her for this..wtf.. they are saying that she was unprofessional, rude, disrespectful.. like seriously? she has the right to be upset..who are they to judge her.. i'm so sorry for her.. those so called fans are really very disrespectful..

@skylarmartin4247

Жыл бұрын

I know right it was very awful, I went to their Atlanta show yesterday and we were trying so hard not to scream over her when she was talking. She got everything that she wanted to say out, but we were just keeping in mind of what happened in Chicago.

@blitzy4279

Жыл бұрын

@@skylarmartin4247 thank you for doing so, im sure all the members really appreciated that 🫶🏻🫶🏻

@skylarmartin4247

Жыл бұрын

@@blitzy4279 oh I loved it it was so much fun, everyone was beautiful and they had beautiful messages! I’m definitely going to go again if they come to Atlanta! Yves and ViVi waved in our direction a couple times and I almost died 😂. It was great

@blitzy4279

Жыл бұрын

@@skylarmartin4247 awwww, i mean loona are always incredible when they perform, and omg i’m so jealous but so happy for you!!

Number 3 is like Holland’s situation when he actually came out as gay people became homophobic but when idols do gay fan service everyone loves it that’s what confuses me about Korea 🤔

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

Yes! The amount of abuse (verbal and physical) that Holland has had to deal with just for being himself is enough to make me question anybody who says Korea just likes skinship and same sex 'closeness', when that's how they react to an actual LGBT individual!

@maquin5588

Жыл бұрын

It's all about the FANTASY, the idea of homo relationships among specific people happening but knowing very well it is never going to is what excites public, we all know that very well. Fans ship members with each others and go as far as harassing each others among the fanbase just to crown a ship over others, they create full love stories about the idols and content too. But the moment an idol does shares their sexual orientation and happens to not be straight, fans bring hell to the surface and their idol becomes their target. Just know this: people love "the idea of" but with that same passio they disagree with it when it becomes reality. Why? 'Cause ideas depend on what fans want, but idols in the real world aren't fan's personal people-pleasers. Actually, idols are individuals with their own preferences, needs and their existence does NOT depend on fans, they don't do what fans want. So to fans, they go from idols to 'something to destroy, a threat to this peaceful world" and if that’s not the most hypocrite and s3xual exploitive way for fans/public to treat their idols and any human, idk what such double standard mindset that is 🚩🚩🚩🚩

@shizukagozen777

Жыл бұрын

I think there's a lot of homophobia in SK but also, fans who have been clueless about the situation of an idol (lack of gaydar lol) and who have fantasized for months or years, just become suddenly very salty because deep down they dreamed that someday, they could have dated. Once the idol come out as gay, all those expectations and love turn into hate and the easiest mean things to say are just homophobic insults. Ofc it's not an excuse for their behavior but I'm pretty sure that it's what happens in their heads.

@Alex-qn7qp

Жыл бұрын

@@shizukagozen777 yeah I guess so?

@maquin5588

Жыл бұрын

@@cuquicia this is not a competition and those idols you talking about weren't attacked for who they are but because of a song. Holland in the other hand isn't straight and people don't like that about him, so what they do is hate him for who he is. Now how about you stfu and don't make this a contest of "who has it worse 🥺"? They all suffer, everyone's pain matters but their situations are different and that's why you don't force all in the same bag. Respect that every case is different and do not invalidate A to support B.

ok but idols roleplaying as their fans' boyfriends/girlfriends is really just straight unnaceptable and unhealthy af, good point here

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

thank you so much, I'm glad you see what I mean!

I just wanted to point out, in regards to aegyo and skinship, that these are in fact parts of korean culture which are often misunderstood by foreigners- ie. its super common for girls to walk while holding hands or interlocking their arms yet many people seem to think of it as "pushed" or "queerbaiting". I agree with the point of pushing idols to do aegyo- if they're uncomfirtable, they shouldn't have to do it. Although again- its oftentimes expected (from girls) to act cute like that 🤷🏻‍♀️

@KITTIMIN

Жыл бұрын

I get what you're saying but with the queer b@iting point there's wayyy more going on than just "holding hands" or "interlocking arms💀. I'm american and we feel so comfortable doing those things AND MORE, so when we say "queer baiting" we literally mean acting "fruity" in a way BLATANT way for fan-service, ESPECIALLY in a country where most koreans, and not even just the older generations (because some of the younger generation have shown the same signs hatefulness) are homophobic. THAT'S the where the real problem lies. And if we're really being honest actual displays of affection, outside of kpop (like the dearyoongi mentioned) , are most likely heavily criticized in SK. There's so many things that idols can get away with bc they're celebs that not even their own people can because their deemed "not as important".

@mina9786

Жыл бұрын

@@KITTIMIN yeah, i never disregarded the fact that there is queerbaiting going on (like, there was literal group with queer concept or how 1st/2nd gen idols often talk now about how company wanted them to act in certain ways to create more profit), i wanted to point that out since some kpop stans, especially young/new fans i'd say, will literally see two people look at each other while holding hands and scream that either "theyre dating" like thay did countless times w ie. Twice or Exo members and then act like they "betrayed" them if they reveal a het relationship/call them being close with other members or same sex idols "queerbaiting"🗿 Also I've never seen people criticizing public displays of affection from same-sex friends? its more likely you'll get shit for being close with someone of opposite sex 💀

@katgreer6113

Жыл бұрын

@@KITTIMIN again, cultural differences. That's just how you westerners view it. No doubt that there's plenty of queerbaiting going on, but they could just be close. That's one thing. Oh and. WHAT IF THEY'RE ACTUALLY GAY? I think we should all be thinking about that.

@KITTIMIN

Жыл бұрын

@@mina9786 ohhh I gotcha. and yes you’d be surprised, I feel like only in kpop can they get away with being touchy-feely with their same sex friends (without being actually “fruity” per se), because there have been multiple instances I can think of where me or another person has been “too close” with a same sex friend for it to be “platonic”. either way it’s kinda messed up when u think about it… kpop idols aren’t rlly allowed to be openly friends w the opposite sex bc of predatory fans that think they’ll lose their “oppar” or “noonaur”. but on the flip side… if we take away the fetishizers & lgbtq allies ppl really become so UPSET when they see… well… same sex anything💀.

@eternalsunshine

Жыл бұрын

yeah, also they’re acting like every single touchy or flirty interaction is queerbaiting ?? like we ain’t robots it’s natural to get touchy with the people you spend a lot of time with, i’m sure idols don’t overthink it that much

The aegyo one, i definitly agree, i hate when they look so forced to do it 🤦‍♀️ Edit: now i watched the whole video and i got to say i agree with all that you just said, especialy the mutual respect thing

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who gets uncomfortable seeing people forced to do aegyo!!

@Vor567tez

Жыл бұрын

This is why understanding cultural difference matters alot. Ifans think they r making idols uncomfortable but that's not true. A Korean clarified that seeing idols doing ageyo is funny and it is supposed to be like that bcs in real life noone does it. It just a cultural joke. Idols too know that, it just for entertainment ,that's it.

And this is why I reduced considerably the Kpop content I watch. Now I'm only into songs (MVs and albums) and concerts. I don't know why but I feel like everything else is fake, monitored or staged (reaction videos, reality shows, games, interviews, Vlives...). Even behind-the-scenes contents seem staged to me. I feel no genuineness anymore.

@lilie4722

Жыл бұрын

the exact same

@gyeomibear

Жыл бұрын

exactly. the only thing keeping me here in this fandom is twice, skz, ateez & txt. i don't even watch their content (except bang chans lives) at this point. i only listen to the songs.

Re: the issue of posting weight on social media, yes it is male idols also. Namjoon did so once that I remember specifically and I'm sure it has been done by others as well. I completely agree about it being triggering, the aforementioned instance with Namjoon affected me very negatively albeit thankfully not for long, and my situation is nowhere near as sensitive or severe as some others' so it scares me how much harm it could accidentally cause people. To be VERY clear I am not blaming Namjoon for this at all, the reason he posted it in the first place is that he admitted to be struggling with his weight and it was really bothering him. I can 1000% sympathize I just don't think he realized the potential effects.

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

thank you so much for the example, I couldn't personally think of any incidences I knew of where male idols had done it! And I'm so sorry that it negatively effected you when you saw it :(

@frenchfreye

Жыл бұрын

First people i thought of for that point are Somi and Namjoon

@nikemaraje5

Жыл бұрын

So by your logic, if an idol goes on social media and says that they are stressed out all the time and they have panic attacks, that would be triggering to people with anxiety...? I'm sorry but it's not people's jobs to regulate everything they say to accomodate you and your problems. I don't want to sound insensitive but if you're triggered by something that wasn't meant to directly cause you any harm, that's your issue, not theirs 🤷🏻‍♀️

@strawberry_jillie

Жыл бұрын

@@nikemaraje5 That's not the point whatsoever. It was the action of presenting a specific weight number that is triggering to a lot of people. And no it's not people's jobs to accommodate everyone else's needs necessarily, but if you know you have a massive platform then THAT is insensitive to not WANT to consider how fans could be affected. I do not refer specifically to Namjoon with that statement because I do believe he is very thoughtful and considerate toward fans pretty much all the time, this was just an instance where he himself was struggling so he didn't stop to consider the effect it could have. Don't try to make this a special snowflake, people are too sensitive thing because it's not. It's a very widespread issue and unfortunately too common in a population of largely young people who are more likely to be struggling with EDs etc. Just because something isn't intended to harm doesn't mean it can't be harmful or that it is automatically okay. An additional point is that there was no effort or inconvenience required in just not posting the weight number and leaving the rest of the post the same. It's not a tough consideration nor is it trivial or an unreasonable sensitivity to bear in mind.

@strawberry_jillie

Жыл бұрын

I will add that I don't want to speak for others and say that nothing else about the situation was triggering, because I don't know what others experience, I can only speak from my own. My thoughts are based on what I saw to be the biggest problem.

For the skinship part: I would like to give a different perspective on that matter. As far as I know (from a person who lives in SK for 15+ years), Koreans are really cautious and shy when it comes to skinship with people they are not close to. But when they are close friends with somebody, they are becoming more free with the skinship part. So my guess is that idols are: 1) close friends for real and just show that to the public; 2) are trying to prove to the public that they're close friends through skinship. And K-pop groups are same-sex groups, so when they do skinship with their members, it's... well, with the same-sex person. Maybe to Westerners it looks like queerbating, but for them is just normal cultural thing or is a way of "selling" their friendship (because SK is all about being a team player, getting along with the others, etc.; also, the "friendship" in K-pop groups is part of the brand, so idols are trying to make it as believable as possible, and skinship is part of the "we're BFFs" show). For the racist part: I consider myself to be a well-educated European. But! My country is not that diverse when it comes to other races. So I really don't know what is considered racist in the USA, for example, and I can offend someone by accident. And that's not because I'm ignorant or something. It's because: 1) there's nobody to teach me; 2) I live in a totally different culture; 3) my time is occupied with other things than reading about what is considered racist in this or that country (or even if I read something, I'll forget it). Also, let's not forget that Asia, Europe etc. are different continents with many different countries and every country has it's own culture, norms, history. So, to expect someone to know all that when their job is to create music, perform and entertain is a little much. I don't think that idols have the time to check every hairstyle, outfit etc. just to be sure they're not offending someone. HOWEVER I believe that: 1) when idol made a mistake, he/she should be held accountable and he/she must learn (and the other artists as well); 2) if K-pop really wants to go global, they should make some kind of classes where they teach the idols the basics of what to not say/do when in other countries (for ex. not to say the n word, like ever!). And last, but not least - let's not forget that the K-pop community has became very toxic in the past few years. Terms like cultural appropriation are being overused and misused just so some people can throw hate to the idols. I remember there was a K-pop bg (don't recall the name, sry) who was trying some traditional clothing of other countries as part of their debut photoshoot, including traditional clothing from my own country. While some "fans" were fast to throw hate at them for CA, I was so damn happy! I didn't see it as a CA. I saw it like "Wow, they know about my country?! Great! Thank you, boys, for wearing and making popular our traditional clothing!". But the photos were taken down, I think the company apologized and I didn't hear of this bg from them. Sry for the long ass post, folks!

@seoulful_22

Жыл бұрын

I agree with the last part. CA is not big of the thing in my country. Maybe it's because we have a lot of cultural diversity and it's pretty okay for people to try out different things from other cultures. We see it as a positive thing, as long as it does not disrespect the other culture, we are pretty okay with it. So I just understand why people get angry for this and I don't think I know the actual reason behind it. Can you tell me why such things happen? I just wanna know becoz people around me don't know either :(

@jocyyy

Жыл бұрын

I believe that group was NTX 🥲

@lilacbuni

Жыл бұрын

​@@seoulful_22 Its because in some countries if u are non white u grew up with ur culture being taken by and uncredited by oppressors e.g. kardashians stealing black hairstyles and then pretending they're new or their thing even renaming them. Now it is the case that those cultures hold their things very close to them and any attempt to use those aspects of their culture is seen as a slight against them and robbing of their identity regardless of intentions. Their culture is not for dress up and play, not for others commercialisation and profit and definitely not for ppl who know nothing abt it.

@devochka-s-kare

Жыл бұрын

I think it's a possibility that while skinship with the same sex is seen as close friendship in SK, those in charge of the companies simultaneously know how the Western audience views it, and how much money it makes them with the Western audience viewing it as more than friendship, and thus particularly encourages it between the members of the groups.

@seoulful_22

Жыл бұрын

@@lilacbuni Thank you so much for explaining it. I never knew about these things. And I think people do have the right to protect their cultural heritage from such disgusting people who only care about their fame and money. Thanks again and I hope you have a great day.

About number 6: Not all reactions are fake. I've seen the video of TWICE reacting to JYP and Sunmi's When We Disco and they showed how much they cringed and disliked it during JYP's part whereas they loved it during Sunmi's part. Bangchan has always been reacting to his labelmates (and others) MVs in his vlive which is not forced by the company. He states his genuine opinion on those. Other idols also react to their labelmates' MVs in their vlive which imo are not fake. And yes, there are fake ones too. Some of which include SM idols' reaction videos.

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

I won't lie I absolutely thought of Nayeon's reaction to JYP in 'When We Disco' when I was talking about this one, it's probably the most genuine reaction I have ever seen from an idol to an MV 🙈

@ishaniii15

Жыл бұрын

@@dearyoongi ikrrr

@debishvebishwish4839

Жыл бұрын

Idk about other labels but JYP groups especially TWICE just say whatever they want during reaction vidoes. Like Jeongyeon and Chaeyoung reacting to POP! is just filled great fun

I feel like we have to treat idol screwups first and foremost as a moment for education rather than hate - do we really think RM was extolling the virtues of Nazism when he wore a Wehrmacht cap a few years ago? Or Sowon was posing with that Nazi uniform because she's a big fan of Mein Kampf? Of course not, we know that. But I remember reading the BBC News article about Sowon and one fan from Poland saying that Sowon shouldn't have posted the picture even if she didn't know it was problematic - how exactly would she have known not to post it then?! I don't think idol training extends to precognition. We in the west are able to rattle off so much about WWII in Europe, but I bet Sowon would never in a million years have posed with an Imperial Japanese uniform, and how many of us would even know what one of those looks like, or have much of a clue about the terrible things done to Korea under occupation? The war against Imperial Japan is even referred to as "the forgotten war" in the UK. We also have to be careful when it comes to idols from China and Japan where history is taught...shall we say differently with regards to certain less than stellar periods of their history, although we're just as bad in that regard in the UK - it's all "fight them on the beaches" and not so much "starve British subjects in Bengal". History rant over! Another brill video smartly and sensitively covering some dicey topics.

@4everlastingstarlight

Жыл бұрын

I love this comment

@jazminitzel809

Жыл бұрын

This^^^

@marionicolasmartin

Жыл бұрын

still offensive so this changes nothing

@Mcsqw

Жыл бұрын

@@marionicolasmartin Absolutely - I wasn't saying that people should be able to be offensive with impunity, just that cancelling someone who didn't know why they had caused offence is a lot less productive than teaching people why something is offensive. Both the examples I mentioned resulted in apologies being issued. Compare that with Prince Harry dressing up as a Nazi officer a few years ago - he really had no bloody excuse on any level.

@seoulful_22

Жыл бұрын

Wow this comment is amazing! I agree with it. I belong to the East and I feel like the West needs to stop making everything about themselves. Like we don't actually know what happened in your country or what's considered offensive. We are taught our history and we know what's offensive and non offensive here. If I wear the same uniform as Sowon, no one in my place would care but if I wore a specific country's army uniform (not gonna mention the name) I might get arrested for being a threat to national security. They probably didn't mean to offend people, they just didn't know

Something i disagree with is that idols have to know what offends other cultures just because we are in a digital era, yes we have fast internet and we live in a digital era but I never heard about n word, cultural appropriation of anything like that until I lived in the west some time, people don't just randomly search stuff like that and also when i do search i dont find any relevant thing about those topics unless i search it in english so not knowing is a true reason. Unless the idol have been called out about it in the past

@katgreer6113

Жыл бұрын

Exaclty. My point exaclty. I didn't know jntil yesterday you couldn't wear shoes into a Muslim household.

@blondielockss

Жыл бұрын

@@katgreer6113 lol and now I just know about it thanks to you

@sameerakhan7455

Жыл бұрын

@@katgreer6113 No actually lol. You CAN wear shoes in a Muslim Household. You don't ware shoes in a mosque tho, just saying. The not wearing shoes is more of a cultural thing actually. Like, if you wear shoes, the ground will get dirty. We usually have slippers for inside the house, at least from most people I know, living in a Muslim majority country

@katgreer6113

Жыл бұрын

@@sameerakhan7455 ok maybe. My Muslim friend told me otherwise. She's from North Africa (Morocco)

@jina2521

Жыл бұрын

even as someone born in the west it can be hard to navigate, it's really just the US that made it a big thing recently and expects everyone else to immediately comply with what they're up to. I'm from Germany and it's always been normal for white people to wear braids up until now. I also remember that everyone used the "really n-word" vine thing when joking with friends because nobody knew it was a bad thing to say. it's definitely a well known thing now but there's new offensive things popping up every day, so it's hard to stay on track

Number 7 reminds me of the issue “the customer is always right”

the fact that somi is 101 and hella tall is rlly concerning 😭😭

7:40 i grew up in a country where nobody talks about racism. I had absolutely no idea why saying the n word or wearing braids were offensive. Then i learned english and started using internet so i learned this stuff. That’s why i kinda understand this argument. But i think fans should educate the idols whenever they do something wrong instead of trying to defend them

@skillbopster

Жыл бұрын

Braids don'[t belong to black people.

most of the times its not queerbaiting its just a bunch of friends casually having fun , flirting, hugging,etc yk just being chummy together. i see it alot in my own life around me , even i do it . the thing wrong here is fans that sexualise these moments to an extreme.

i have to disagree with the 3rd one, most idols haven't even stated their sexuality yet and to assume that their automatically straight and think that everytime they show any physical affection to their members is fan-service and not genuine is really stupid to me. at the end of the day they are human, they have feelings and will act on them (esp since majority of 4th gen are teenagers) since when was hugging or holding someones hand of the same gender deemed 'queer baiting' ? yes there is certain situations where it looks forced but to assume they're all like that is beyond me.

@5XKXNXA

Жыл бұрын

EXACTLY!

@Cloudkirb

Жыл бұрын

I mean you can saw the queer baiting can be said when they, kiss, touch eachother in sensual like ways, and call eachother petnames that are used for couples. Nobody said they were automatically straight since we don't know their sexuality tho.

@katgreer6113

Жыл бұрын

@@Cloudkirb but by assuming they are queerbaiting you are assuming that they're straight.💀

@jadieevans9222

Жыл бұрын

also i feel like MOST close friends will jokingly flirt with each other at some point right? like most of my friends are queer but some of them aren't but we all joke around the same. we'll tell each other how hot they are/call each other "babe"/winks/pick up lines/smack each others butts/etc. having fun, close relationships where you're able to joke without feeling insecure of your sexuality is totally normal and healthy. like we call men out all the time for toxic masculinity and acting like it's gay to be affectionate, but when guys aren't like that, we're gonna call it queerbaiting?

@janaeyukimura1696

Жыл бұрын

@@jadieevans9222 it’s funny cs all the guys im around are exactly like that, they call each other babe and say sexual things to each other just for fun and bcs they feel comfortable enough in their sexuality to joke around OR to act on how they actually feel we will never know. it’s not always in a mocking nature and some people don’t realize that.

For number 4 I can say as a poc I had no idea about what is and what isn't rasicm until I started to use the internet in 2017. And honestly if I didn't speak english I likely wouldn't have learned about racism until 2019 when it became a trending topic in my country. So yeah I can understand genuinely not knowing about copying a dance or a pose being racist. But saying words of which you don't know the meaning I don't understand and if you do know the meaning you shouldn't be saying it. Like clarifying I always knew I had to treat other people with respect but until 2017 I had never heard, seen or said the n-word and didn't know it's meaning. In 2017 I was 15.

What happened to baekhyun should be a warning for idols to not treat their fans as their girlfriends/boyfriends

@mimi-od7lm

Жыл бұрын

what are you referring to? what happened to him?

@4everlastingstarlight

Жыл бұрын

@@mimi-od7lm Baekhyun used to treat his fans as his girlfriends and do boyfriend service for them so he unintentionally gained a lot of delulu fans. When he started dating with snsd taeyeon those fans get angry at him for betraying them (he once said something like he'll be alone for them until he is 40) and started hating him and tae, they tried to keep their relationship for so long but the hate was enormous and they break up at the end. Some fans are still hating him and calling taeyeon names even after years and both are avoiding dating/open relationships ever since

okay there's a lot here so i have to share my takes. #1. As much as I agree it's not great to share their weight it's ultimately not a problem. We can't expect strangers online to always have everyone's triggers in mind. So it's nice for idols to be considerate but on the other side it's rude to for example demand they take those posts down. #2. I think idols can be friends who like teasing and hazing each other, getting pressured by your friends to do something ridiculous is all in good fun. But in principle I also hate when they're not clear when they're actually uncomfortable. It's a very different thing to put on a show about how much you're cringing, that's just entertainment, but if they genuinely hate it I wish they could opt out. As an audience it's just pretty impossible to tell one from the other. And like I'm sure none of the other punishments on those shows are fun either, not sure who wants to drink garlic for example, but it's in the name of the game. It'd be a lot less fun as content with no stakes. #3. Oooooh boy. Well. Fanservice is like half of an idol's job description so that's already a lost cause. I don't know what to tell you, rockstars play up their rockstar personas, rappers play up their rapper personas, idols play up their idol personas. That's what happens on stage. Celebrities were never real, the parasocial connection is what makes them money. As an audience I think it's healthy to just remember you know nothing about them anyway, they're offering you an entertaining illusion. Take it or leave it. And "queerbaiting" is complex and embedded into east asian entertainment in particular. Idols just do the suggestive stuff though, I've seen bandomen straight up make out on stage like drunk college girls. Which ironically makes it less baity because you know it's just a show for sure. I get how it can be a bit tough to parse for younger viewers but it's all just part of the show and has very little to do with real life social issues, it's just there to be exciting to look at. I think it's a little silly to talk about it as if it's some serious issue. It's as close to queerbaiting as girl crush concepts are to feminism. #4. I don't know if I'm just assuming but you sound like you're from the anglosphere. The internet is a very different place in different languages. No matter the generation you're not culturally integrated with that part of the world as much as you think you are. You can still dislike them for their actions but it is very believable they genuinely just don't get the issue. #5. Again I would say it's part of the illusion they're offering. Doesn't appeal to me either but who am I to knock those who like it, might as well have idols for them too. #6. Well. Even if the company wasn't holding a gun to their head it'd be pretty awkward to genuinely hate your coworkers' creative output. Honestly I think a lot of idols just aren't the best reactors so I wish they'd just have one video with the most interesting reactions for it to have enough entertainment value. #7. Yes. 100 times yes, idols should have leeway to call people out for their actions. This conflict-averse style just lets delusions from every side run wild. What I hate about the Loona situation is how they should have stopped the show and specifically addressed the people making a mess of it and got them sorted out. That's what happens at regular concerts. I think it'd be less stressful too if idols knew they had the authority to actually control their situation.

@gabdongipark

Жыл бұрын

I wanted to comment but you covered it

@miYA-lv8oh

Жыл бұрын

plus im sure hyuna has or has overcome an ed of somekind so when people talk about it being triggering then it should be the same when someone whos hevier posting their weight for people that need to gain wheight and are constantly bullied for being 'too skinny'

Kpop fans litteraly kicked an idol from his group just because he reacted to a kpop song honestly... and they're still watching idol reaction videos thinking everything is real

@akeldamakoizumi6572

Жыл бұрын

omg, what was the group??

@4everlastingstarlight

Жыл бұрын

@@akeldamakoizumi6572 vixx's hongbin

@KarlaJeannieDoddy

Жыл бұрын

@@akeldamakoizumi6572 Vixx and the member is Hongbin

@ninarances9074

Жыл бұрын

@@KarlaJeannieDoddy ah, Hongbin. Man, I'm so sad he left. Now here's the thing, when I read about what happened, I was like "eh, the comments aren't too bad to me. I don't see why people are making such a big deal about it." There are many who find his comments disrespectful and are worried the groups he reacted to might feel hurt by what he said. But to me, in my opinion, I don't think the groups will worry about what he said too much. But yeah, it's kinda sad he left. But hey, we can't do anything about it.

@4everlastingstarlight

Жыл бұрын

@@ninarances9074 the problem is his words were twisted, nearly none of the comments were for the groups that got angry. For example shawols said he disrespected shinee saying he didn't like their song while the video he watched was a edit where a shinee song and another song is mixed. Or exols got angry at him saying he disrespected their group saying vixx always win over exo, he wasn't even talking about the groups but he was just joking about their concepts (vixx had their vampire concept comeback during exo had their wolf concept era and he was referencing the popular culture norm how vampires win over wolves just like how it happened in twilight and other fictional books) Unlike how fans treat them, kpop idols aren't 10 year old kids they won't get mad at someone who make pop culture jokes. And the fact hongbin was closer to the idols than those fans who claimed he is being disrespectful is just so stupid. Like he used to play games with exo members and other idols all day, exo and vixx been close friends since the day they debuted, just weeks before the controversy he and baekhyun was touching each others chest on live tv, but some idiot fans who don't even know their idols personally started talking about how their idols are hurt by hongbins comments and caused that controversy that resulted with him leaving

A lot of these problems stem from the fact that k-pop idols are treated as products by their agencies. They are very often told to act and speak in a certain way, wear only what they're given, do whatever fanservice they're told to, and basically just act like trained pets. To the companies, they're just a form of business and as long as money is being made, the idol's freewill or agency doesn't matter.

skinship, holding hands, affection, etc is not queerbaiting especially when these idols have never stated their sexualities and by calling them queerbaters ur assuming theyre straight

I think I have to defend some idols in racism controversies because some are really don't know what even racism is. Idols usually start training under a company since a young age and had nearly no chances to learn about world. Some trainees don't even leave their company building for days, they don't have friends from outside, they can't go out and walk around the city. And until late 3rd and 4th generation, idols weren't even allowed to own phones. Some idols even shared they only had one phone for a 10 members trainee unit or they were only allowed to use staffs phone to take videos of their practice and after they debuted they had to wait for years to own a phone. They had no chance to learn about what problems people at the other side of world are facing Now I'm not saying all idols had this, I know many 3rd and 4th gen idols used social media before debut and I'm not defending them I'm not saying they are allowed to use racist words just because they don't know, but if they get into a controversy fans should explain why it's wrong to them instead of jumping to cancellation. If they do the same thing again after learning what was wrong, then they should be cancelled

@2xsunny

Жыл бұрын

It is ridiculous to claim that someone does not know about racism in this world at this day and age. There are people of every race in each country in the world, even Korea has black, brown, white and other races of people. So it is untrue to claim that anyone does not know about racism.

@Nightcore_Revolution

Жыл бұрын

💀

@4everlastingstarlight

Жыл бұрын

@@2xsunny well not every country have racism as a big problem, in korea racism for colour is not that popular and nearly no one knows it's a bad thing. If you are a foreigner, you are diffrent and i accept it's a problem in korea but i never actually saw someone being mistreated for their colour. I only get to know about racism and black history when i was around 14-15 thanks to internet and international friends, but how can you expect young kids who have little no connection to outside and have no personal phones/internet to learn something that is happening at the other side of the world? The same way how west don't know koreas japanese colonial times, the same way people don't know hardships korean men and women had, the same way how west don't know much about asian history, they don't know about what is happening in the west too and they can only learn why their act is wrong if people explain them about history

@crazyabout1327

Жыл бұрын

@@2xsunny Well, you're wrong. I'm from Bulgaria, a country from Eastern Europe. We don't have many representatives of other races. To see a black person on the streets of Bulgaria is a very rare thing. Asians too are not that common. So, naturally, Bulgarians know what racism is by definition, but in our country there is no such problem as racism. In school, we are not educated what is racist toward different races. We learn (eventually) from movies, TV series, etc. The Internet access means nothing. People rarely search up topics like this in Google, so if they don't come across this kind of info accidentally, they probably won't know nothing. I can even give myself as an example. I knew that the n word is bad (and not by Internet or movies; just a friend of mine is really into hip-hop, so I was singing along, sang the n word and he told me that it's bad and I should not say it) but didn't know that some hairstyles can be offensive too. I learnt that in the international K-pop community with all the racist issues K-pop idols have. So no, there are not people of every race in each country. No, not everyone know what is racist and what's not. No, not every country has racist issues. And no, you cannot blame people for not knowing something just because you grew up with it. Like, I don't expect people to know what is offensive in my country and to be sensitive about it.

@aliensuperstar1689

Жыл бұрын

stop babying these ppl and acting like they simply don't know that mocking ppl is bad..💀 be fuccing serious

for number 3, as an lgbtq person, queerbaiting makes me so upset. queerness has been demonized for such a long time and nowadays people use it as an aesthetic or treat it as a joke or the idea of queer people as a joke. when i first came out to myself, it was very hard to fully accept myself because of the lack of representation in media and some internalized homophobia. so in my baby k-pop days, some ships were almost a safe place because it was like a “oh they’re like me” and i had someone to idolize that was just like me. i only ship friendships now but it’s a really messed up thing and company’s know that and profit off people like younger me. (i hope this made sense😅)

@AL-hb6ti

Жыл бұрын

amazing video!! agreed with almost every point made!!

@Sammmm85

Жыл бұрын

yeah i hate that idols fake these things just to get attention or fanservice🥲.. my first fav ship was nomin(jeno and jaemin) I've watched their videos so many times that i thought they were real.. fans edit makes it 100% real lol.. now i feel embarrassed..how stupid i was🤣

@Steph489

Жыл бұрын

Honestly yes the idols have partly to blame for it but also with the fans they eat it up like there’s no tomorrow and honestly it’s so disgusting because it’s just fetishization. And then when you try to get them out of their ship delusion they call you homophobic. Like in the stray kids fandom shipping is a very big problem and when I try to call people out saying that it’s probably just fan service I get called jealous saying that “oh so you think you’re gonna marry your Oppa”

i agree with everything apart from your point about how everyone should know what is and isnt racist, you grew up in manchester a very racially diverse place and have grown up with people of different races and had/have friends of different races and cultures since birth, however korea is still a homogeneous society where in neighbourhoods there are few families or individules who are not korean/east asian, and in schools usually there is only one or two students who arent 100% korean so they dont grow up naturally learning about what is and isnt racist to other races, like me and you did when growing up, so in them cases of idols who didnt live in the western world or a racially diverse country before becoming an idol you have to educate them in adulthood about these issues when/if they arise, like im not tryna make excuses for idols but some idols truly are ignorant to these things. also with media they consume until netflix and streaming services came around theyd only watch what was being broadcast on tradition tv and that was almost 100% korean stuff, and theyd see comedians doing blackface, wearing native american traditional dress and theyd think its okay to do that themselves (obviously its not) because they saw their industry sunbaes doing the same, we are a product of what we grow up seeing and experiencing, youtube has only blown up in korea the past 5ish years, people thought people having their own 'private broadcast' was weird until they saw people making money from it, like now even Na PD is basically exclusivly doing youtube content instead of doing tv content also idols and actors making channels, like that shows how different social media is in korea in comparison to other countries so they werent exposed to people from other countries and cultures through social media either

@KarlaJeannieDoddy

Жыл бұрын

sorry accidentally wrote an essay...

@gabdongipark

Жыл бұрын

I think you said it right, koreans are ignorant but not necessarilly mean.

@strawb3rryluv

Жыл бұрын

I understand that but it still doesn't excuse being disrespectful towards other races considering these idols have went to different countries and meant different types of people also by now they should know why certain stuff is offensive

@gabdongipark

Жыл бұрын

@@strawb3rryluv them traveling does not make them smarter. As long as they dont get called out they cant learn

@strawb3rryluv

Жыл бұрын

@@gabdongipark doesn’t excuse racism

One of the only label mates mv reactions that I thought was genuine was of the yg groups reacting to bigbang's still life. U could tell the amount of respect they have for the group and how much the song meant to some of them. (Some of the treasure members actually in tears proves that honestly)

Great job dearyoongi! Honestly, everything in this video is on point, especially the one about queerbaiting. The amount of queerphobic kpop fans out there that turn around and call their favorites 'so cute and gay' and 'shy/confident gay energy' is astonishing...

I can not stand aegyo AT ALL. I dont understand how people can see a grown man or woman pushing 30 and ask them to do cute gestures, that shit is so weird to me. I don't care how old you are, I don't wanna see that shit. Its different if you are naturally cute but when you go out of your way to put that act on for fun, I find it disgusting... People might say "Its just for fun.... its cute." But the infantilisation in Kpop is becoming a serious problem. Stop treating these grown ass adults like babies.

If weight is such a sensitive topic, put your phone down, do a social media detox and go outside. There is a %99 chance that internet trends makes you insecure.

@ABC-sz7rd

Жыл бұрын

be quiet

@waitwhat55

Жыл бұрын

@@ABC-sz7rd you can cry instead of solving things. Not everybody has to be strong

@sorasarana9655

Жыл бұрын

What i thought 2.. Cause like if you get insecure about someone posting numbers, maybe it’s a you problem and not a the other persons problem

Sharing their weight should not be triggering. Kpop fans should grow up and not judge themselves based on social media. At that point it's the fans who can't control their emotions around weight you're so triggered about another persons weight that doesn't even know you exist. That's really sad. This generation lacks a lot of control and confidence in themselves that we need a trigger warning to discuss weight. There is such a thing as being too sensitive. ✨The world isn't there to babysit you and your insecurities. ✨ Also queerbaiting is 51% the fans fault. Let's not act as if kpop fans would insta leave if these groups were actually gay. It's just the fantasy of homosexuality they like not the real thing.

@felixfelicis127

Жыл бұрын

i don't agree, cause yes everything can trigger depends on the person, buut weight is still a VERY VERY VERY sensitive argument everywhere, like, look how many ppl have eds in this world (me included), and sorry but it isn't just my "insicurity"

@simonjoy2991

Жыл бұрын

Oh my gosh thank you!!! I’m glad someone has some sense of reality. The only person that is in charge of how you feel is YOURSELF!! I’m getting sick and tired of fans getting “triggered” over things that kpop idols do. It’s not their job to make everyone comfortable at all, they shouldn’t have to operate through life to make sure that they don’t trigger or hurt anyones feelings (no one has to do that). Fans act like they’ve never put any of their idols in any uncomfortable situation in their life. The world shouldn’t have to cater to any one’s feelings, it’s kinda pathetic that they want to complain about something someone else they don’t know is doing because they are feeling some type of way. If they don’t like it, then they don’t have to watch that idols stuff anymore. And if it really is so “triggering” that they literally have a breakdown about it, then they need to get some help fr fr. Or, there is also another solution to their problem… GET OF THE FREAKING INTERNET!!! Obviously, there are things that can be concerning that people can post online, but in general, it’s no one’s job except you to keep you feelings in check Also, you’re right about the queerbating thing. Most of the fan service is stemmed from weird people romanticizing gay relationships, so that’s why they “queerbate”. The kpop industry knows that the fans absolutely love, hence why they do that. I also feel like some of the idols feel like they have to because if they don’t, they will be relentlessly judged and bullied on the internet by “fans” that claimed that that idols is mean, cold, rude, etc.. that’s what happens with some idols that I really like.

@flymetotheup9904

Жыл бұрын

@@felixfelicis127 You're not ready for the real world so please stop using the internet.

@fallingstaer1478

Жыл бұрын

Just say you love to normalise eating disorders

@flymetotheup9904

Жыл бұрын

@@fallingstaer1478 just say you love to blame other people for things which are none of their business

About the Kim Lip situation, I saw many “fans” turn it on Kim Lip and said she was just jealous of ViVi because it was mainly her name being chanted. It was stupid because that clearly wasn’t what was happening. They disrespected Kim Lip, she wasn’t jealous

#4: First things first: I AM IN NO WAY DEFENDING IDOLS WHICH HAVE DONE THIS For context, I am a poc with poc parents and I have no idea what life was like before the internet. I am ashamed to say but when I was younger I had no idea how messed up my views were as I was practically brainwashed by the people around me. I know it is NOT the same as Korea, but it gives insight that western society is much more progressive than most of the world. So I kind of believe that SOME (not majority of idols who get into controversy) are not aware of what they do is wrong. I think it is forgivable if they prove that they were unaware and it’s a mistake they won’t do again. But ofc if they keep on doing it then yes it’s a poor excuse.

With 4 it's not a lack of knowledge, South Korea has been recognised by both the UN and South Korean president as having a racism issue, people here know what racism is and they know what is/isn't racist it's just many don't care. South Korea also has the fastest internet in the world and idols have been called out for the same things for years so there is absolutely no way they don't know, literally none.

I love aegyo. When the idol wants to do it it's really cute but when they do it as a challenge its funky

Thanks for summing up parts of K-pop that I find bizarre. 'Idols' are people too and fans should always treat them the same way we want others to treat us. The industry can be sick and the last thing we want to do is add to the toxicity. Just enjoy the music and be kind.

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

Yess preach to this!!💖

Personally I think that idols who were born and raised in Korea may not know what they said was offensive unless someone told them directly or they went out of their way to look it up on the Internet. Since everyone and everything around them thought that way, how would they know any better?

for me there’s a very weird line between close friendships and queer baiting. unless it’s obvious queer baiting, i don’t feel like i’m justified to call it out because maybe these idols are just genuinely close, and korean standards of affection are a lot different than in other places: men can kiss each other’s cheek and hold hands and it would be normal. i know not every idol likes skinship or being that close with their members and they’re forced to, which is queer baiting, but a lot of idols are just close. i see this in friend groups all around me too, where the girls or guys will cuddle and kiss their friends on the cheek when they’re the same gender cause they’re just so comfortable with each other.

i think idols should pull the uno reverse card saying fans aren’t allowed to date until the fans decided they can date that would be extremely funny

Okay but it's also their right to be in love with their image am body and be proud of it and there's nothing wrong with sharing about something that actually worked for! To maintain their figure is not an easy thing. We honestly can't be telling people to straight not talk about their weight because we can't handle it. How about realizing that we're all different, what might be triggering to some isn't triggering to others. Soon enough yall be telling people to stop posting pretty pictures of yourselves because it's triggering to our self esteem

@bluskies444

Жыл бұрын

But posting pictures of a scale is not the only and best way to show that

Two things I want to touch on are about the skinship/queerbating issue and the racism issue. As for skinship I totally understand that SK has a different view on showing affection to close friends of the same gender but I think it becomes a different thing when you see some idols pretend to kiss each other and/or act suggestively towards each other. But I also do understand that every friend group is different and is either closer or not closer depending on the people. And about the racism issue, as a POC there are plenty of instances in kpop regarding racism or cultural appropriation that have hurt me because of their insensitivity but I do believe that some people know better and some genuinely just don't. SK is a 95% homogeneous country, so that means that most people only see other Koreans all the time. And yes while the younger generations are exposed to the world through the internet, I don't expect that the info their getting is completely factual and not (for lack of better words) "filtered" a certain way. I grew up in America and after all my years in the American school system I can honestly say that I've learned so much more about the genocide, slavery, racism, and etc against POC in this country in the few years I've been out of school than in the many years I've been in it. But that's because i'm actively trying to teach myself. If you've never been exposed to these kinds of things and don't actively seek to learn it, then it's much easier to accidentally do something offensive. I think it should be the responsibility of the companies to educate these idols on certain things. That's not to say that not all South Koreans or more specifically, idols, don't know better though. I do believe that some do know better and still don't care regardless. Its really disheartening at times but I do have hope things can still be better. P.S, sorry for the wall of text and thank you to anybody who reads this through❤

I love a lot of these points, but I think the “feigning ignorance about racism” one is a bit more complicated than you’re giving credit for. Growing up in Korea is not the same thing as growing up in a country with a huge history of immigration waves and multiculturalism. You discussed how growing up in the digital age means access to all of this information but don’t mention that language is also a big factor in the information you can receive online. The vast majority of content on the internet is still written in English (about 55-60%, despite only 20% of the world’s population speaking English at any level) and anything written in Korean will be skewed towards more typical Korean beliefs, values, and perspectives on the world. The information about various global perspectives on race relations and racism outside of Korea may be out there, but it would be harder to find for someone who only speaks Korean. Obviously that isn’t an excuse to repeat the same mistakes again and again or to refuse to apologize for racist actions, but I am more sympathetic to young rookie idols who don’t have real-world experience with global perspectives on race and racism. As long as they take the time to learn and grow from mistakes and don’t repeat past racist actions, I’m generally willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

For the 4th point while I generally agree that a public figure should be more aware about their actions and words and I mostly agree with your point, it’s kinda funny to hear that for our generation the knowledge about other countries comes naturally. If you live in a diverse multicultural society - yeah, maybe. But if you think about it, you only know a lot about those cultures which representatives live somewhere around you. There are so many cultures that you know nothing about unless you research specifically. And do not forget Korea is not a multicultural country at all. 99% of their population are Korean. Even immigrants from other countries are often ethnic Koreans. If you are a non-Asian who tries to live there you can even feel pressured to hide your appearance. Do you really think idols get a lot of opportunities to learn about other nationalities naturally? Or that they have a lot of time to learn it online while they have to study and work hard to debut/continue their careers? Even when you visit other countries for tourism you don’t get a lot of opportunities to deep dive into the culture and problems of its representatives, leave alone their visits for concerts. So yeah, idols should learn from their mistakes, and maybe companies should take responsibility in educating their idols and themselves. But many groups and companies are mostly concerned about Korean fans. And even if not, trust me, idols exist in such a bubble, culturally, and in many other aspects of life, that I think not even a single thought about other races/nationalities/cultures occurs in their heads before they do or say something.

Thank you for the weight point. Somi's one was the most triggering thing and it didn't seem like she posted it for any good reason either.

Adore totalmente este video, quizá no tenga mucho que ver pero la verdad me sentí realmente bien al saber que estuve de acuerdo contigo en todo. Me alegra ver que ahora soy una fan del kpop que es realmente madura. En los años de 2017-2020 no era tan madura en el tema del kpop, pero sucedió que conocí a Stray Kids a finales de 2020, momento en donde Stay todavía no era un fandom tóxico. El estar con los chicos y con un fandom tan maduro realmente me hizo reflexionar acerca de todo el comportamiento que tuve en años anteriores, se que este comentario ya se hizo muy largo, pero estoy realmente feliz de ver como pude madurar gracias a otras personas y gracias a mi mentalidad abierta.

The weight thing is SO IMPORTANT. I don't struggle with eating disorders or anything like that and am generally fine with my weight at the moment and I STILL get uncomfortable hearing the numbers because I can't help but compare and I know it's triggering others. I simply don't think that people's weight should be something you can stumble across without warning.

@Steph489

Жыл бұрын

Number one is the only one I disagree with because idols are allowed to post whatever they want on their socials just like everyone else and nobody should be responsible for somebody else’s triggers that’s for you to deal with.

dear idol, if you are one of those idols who constantly say to their fans that you're their boyfriend/girlfriend then I have 0 sympathy for you when you get shitted on by those exact fans when you decide to date someone

The whole MAMAMOO hates every typical kpop thing, and they aren't afraid to show it or say no to it

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

Yes absolutely, I love that about them!

on racism in kpop, saying the idols don’t know any better or that it’s a different culture is just an excuse. nobody needs classes on racism or years living in a foreign country to not be racist. you just need to respect others, not think of your race as superior to other races, treat people equally, and not mock other races. it’s really not that hard.

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

thank you, this is exactly what I'm getting at! people who have not been 'educated' may not know about certain things in other cultures and why that's offensive, but you don't need to be 'educated' to know NOT to physically mock another culture and make fun of it!

@vermillionglamour

Жыл бұрын

also, i feel like ppl forget that the korean language literally have SLURS for other races. asian ppl r not dumb, they know what they’re doing

@sakuramochi5610

Жыл бұрын

@@vermillionglamour wait, can you explain your comment again plz I don’t think I understood 😮

@vermillionglamour

Жыл бұрын

@@sakuramochi5610 in the korean language, they have translations for slurs like the n word that korean ppl use on non koreans

@sakuramochi5610

Жыл бұрын

@@vermillionglamour omg why would they even need to translate slurs??

To point 5: I think that you’re right, with the point that behavior like this makes it for fans easier to be obsessive and dangerous to themselves and idols! Especially if you consider, that many (even if you don’t wanna hear it) fans are young teenage girls, who ain’t mentally or emotionally developed enough to rationalize some of their decisions. But fan service and playing into the perfect partner fantasy comes literally with this genre of music. You see it in western modern boy groups as well, in old school boy groups like *NSYNC or Backstreet Boys, the originators Boyz II Men and Blackstreet and even with the Beatles. Company people know what they doing, it’s sounds crazy to me to tell an industry that’s literally build on fans having a parasocial relationship with their idols to cut that down. Obviously it’s the music and people that got someone hooked, but this relationship between idol and fans is the key point of boy and girl groups and by extension kpop. I’m completely on board when it comes to the idea of getting rid of queer baiting, because the impact it has on individuals and Korean society as a whole. Playing as you belong to a group that still gets deeply discriminated is bad enough but in a country that is homophobic to the core? Yikes … But fanservice, calling their fans cute names and pretending to be their significant other is what sells the music in the first place, because you feel a personal connection to them. This thing is what makes boy groups and girl groups unique in the realm of pop music. So yeah from a moral standpoint it’s a valid argument to make, deceiving millions of people and endangering everyone involved shouldn’t be an option, but that’s not how you sell CD’s. This industry lives on us having parasocial relationships not per se in the romantic sense of the term, because I’m sure most of us grow or grew out of the idea, that these people are available to us for dating or even to hang out, but the dedication to the artists that come along with those.

@HopeeInk

Жыл бұрын

That was long I’m sorry

I like your honesty with all these opinions and really appreciate your comments on Idols deserving respect from fans. Kim Lip is my Bias in Loona so it broke my heart to hear about the Chicago incident. I feel that fans should just know and do better especially in this day when there is so much more interactions with artists through social media and online. I do wish to see more videos where you dive deeper into certain topics or just the other fun videos you also do. I'll always be supporting and watching. 😎 😀

The fan service/queerbaiting is inchoerent tho, they don't let idols express their sexuality, but they let them believe people they are just for views or something?. Make up your mind.

Wow! I subscribed cuz..... its facts, over facts, over facts sis 😄 Great video !

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

thank you so much!💖

I haven’t watched it yet but I think it will be a good but possibly controversial video

Trust Mee i hope the last part of this blows up somehow.... It's a much needed thing tht must be shoved into some fans brains who think they own the idol and can do whatever shit they want

honeslty, kpop, in a objective way, is trash and the indsutry is trash and everything is so scripted out and fake and staged and almost nothing is unique and WE FANS, can definitly do something about this cuz literally, when it comes to the idol industry, what they make IS foor us, whhat they work on IS for us so we have ALL the power to change it so

Sis I love your voice, unintentional asmr

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

aw thank you so much ahah!

I've never even seen an idol group react to a different group's music video. Is this an SM thing?

@Steph489

Жыл бұрын

It happens a lot in JYP nation and also the SM family

off topic but i could hear you talk allllll day... your accent is so nice

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

aw thank you so much omg!🥺💖

New Sub here. I love that you said all of this bc I feel the same way. I've tried to speak out and got so much hate for it..

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!💖 I'm sorry you got so much hate for it :(

Who is the K-pop idol at 12:06 and what is the song name?

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

he's Victon's Seungsik, and the song is called 'Unpredictable'! 💖

Tbh one of my far relatives had braids for a long time, and all I ever thought about it was like: "oh she's a hippie or something". Kids and teens in my class were wearing native American costumes and no one spent a second thought on it. That was BEFORE I learned English and got more interested in other cultures. Now looking back I cringe at my thoughts but I really didn't know better. In some countries you just don't know stuff like that if you're not actively researching it. The blame for idols appropriating culture should primarily be on the company for not providing them with the knowledge. Imo idols should be getting classes that teach them about those issues before they try to market themselves in the western world. I don't blame them for not knowing, but I blame the industry for not making sure that they do learn about it. (Btw I'm NOT talking about idols who learn that it's inappropriate but still go on with it. That's just unforgivable. I mean those who genuinely don't know and immediately stop when someone tells them about it)

I completely agree with what u said abt queer baiting but abt skinship I don’t necessarily agree with what u said. in Korean culture - I’ve heard from a lot of Koreans - that when ppl are very close they become very comfortable around eachother and touchy but that’s seen as normal. they express their closeness and comfort with one another through skinship. Secondly as someone with physical touch as their love language, I also get touchy and have alot of skinship with the ppl I care abt and am close to so I think many idols may also have that. It reassures me and makes me feel at ease and I also just love skinship with the ppl I love - obviously if someone is uncomfortable I don’t force anything but do u get what I mean. but yes I agree marketing and making idols be extra touchy is a def tru but I don’t believe that’s the case most of the time esp anymore

For number 4, Koreans aren’t really taught many things about racial things as much as westerners. They aren’t taught about the n-word, mocking, etc. So to them it’s not wrong since, well they were never taught that it was wrong. It’s probably because many foreigners don’t live in Korea, unlike the US which is full of diverse groups of people. So you can’t really be mad at idols when they state the truth, that they didn’t know what they did was wrong

Some idols just wanna support their label mates and people who they trained with during the years and react to their new song. Not everything is scripted in kpop, these are also people we are talking about. The same way you like a post from a friend on insta, the same way can an idol like a juniors MV and watch it.

For these "fans" this is a fantasy world. Because some things they don't or can't do in their lives , they force them onto their idols at one point controlling their idol's lives. I agree with all of them!!

as a queer person, i hate queerbaiting, but i also hate that idols can't be touchy without getting accused of queerbaiting. some idols are just close, whether it's romantic or not it's none of our business. we all hate when male and female idols interract and there's a flood of people assuming they're dating, and we tell those people to stop, because they can just be friends. why can't we give the same grace to interractions between same gender idols? we've seen how awkward and forced interractions between male and female idols have gotten, simply so people don't assume they're dating, and if we keep this behaviour going, it'll start happening between idols who are friends and/or just in the same group. obviously i agree in cases like seulgi and irene's monster, where they're clearly queer baiting, but i've seen idols, dreamcatcher for example, who have been endlessly accused or queerbaiting simply because they're close and touchy with each other, and it annoys me to no end. can't we just see two guys and two girls hugging or kissing each other's hand or cheeks, or whatever really, and think "oh, they're close, good for them". when they've openly said they suport queer people or if they feel comfortable being close on camera, i really don't see the issue with it. besides, if some of those idols happen to be queer, imagine how they feel when they're told they can't act a certain way just because it can come off as queer. it's horrible. it all comes down to their relationships and sexuality being none of our business.

a middle finger for those toxic fans! I rlly hate those ppl who disrespects those idols.

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

yess me too!

i feel like the vast majority of skin ship in groups is fan service but i think that sometimes those idols probably just aren’t straight. and i’m not saying that to like defend ships or anything but idk. like i think of vernon and seungkwan from seventeen. those two are really touchy and stuff but they do it a lot when the cameras aren’t necessarily focused on them. also, if you watch a lot of their pre-debut content, they’ve been like that since they were like 14. i’m not implying that they’re dating or anything like that but i think sometimes that’s just how the idols are. ofc tho there are lots of idols who do it for fans but i don’t think it’s fair to say that they’re all queerbaiting cuz some idols are probably just not straight. also i’m not saying that you said it’s all fan service, but i just wanted to share my opinion on it. i also agree 100% that too many groups do it and too many fans fall for it and then continue to be homophobic. i loved the video too 💕💕

@Cloudkirb

Жыл бұрын

Ur definitely right when it comes to some idols being gay, some probably told members too.

There ain’t no why atp that idols don’t know not to say the n-word or appropriate cultures. It isn’t like nugu artists were getting called out; Wendy, Giselle, Jessi I know damn well they heard about the news ESPECIALLY with Wendy since home girl was DRAGGED for months. And then with Giselle as well-she even posted an apology and you’re telling me they didn’t see it? They may not know why they can’t say it, and I’m not asking them to learn American history bc that’s stupid but…even if you don’t know why you can’t do certain things…don’t do them. Just be like ‘welp idk the meaning but this person got dragged and I don’t want to soooo’

i couldn't agree more on what you said about idols playing into the girlfriend/boyfriend fantasy. tbh, i don't even think it's just banter or harmless fanservice, i think it's far more calculated and insidious than that. i don't blame idols for this, because they are employees after all and they need to get that bag, but i know that their labels/companies encourage them to do this. they (as in the companies) want to essentially commodify the parasocial relationship between the idol and the fan, so a perversion of a relationship/friendship is borne out of this obvious commodification. when idols say that they are our best friends, or our boyfriends/girlfriends with so much sincerity, i know it's not true because they don't know anything about me, and i only know as much about them as they or their company wants to tell us. this is not to say that an idol can't love their fans, or care about them, and that a fan can't do the same, but, as you said, making fans feel like they are entitled to more from an idol than they can give, can be really harmful. it's the corporation's method of preying on lonely teens and young adults in my opinion. as someone who always feels really lonely, emotionally and physically, i really want to believe it when my favs say that they are my best friend, even though i know it's not true. tbh, it has helped me a lot, because hearing someone say that they care about me and they want me there can be really meaningful when no one else in your life has been saying it to you. but i really believe that a line needs to be drawn which reminds us that our idols are humans too, not some over sensationalized guardian angel that has been sent to us. i personally really struggle with this (since i'm quite lonely, as pathetic and sad as that sounds), so i felt really strongly (and positively) about what you said in the number 5 section of the vid.

I was at loona concert in Poland and I must say I’m Proud of their behaviour 😻

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

that's great! I'm really glad some worldwide fans were able to make them feel welcome :')

I didnt even know what the nword is until I became a fan of kpop, specifically Bts back in 2017. I always say/sing the nword because its in the lyrics of the songs I know. But then I got deeper into kpop and scandals and issues pop out, that was the time I learned what the nword really means. Btw I am currently 17. My opinion on the racism, CA etc in kpop is that if u want to be globally famous then u should also be sensitive and learn different cultures because you're not just catering in your own people and country. Ps. English is not my first language ;))

If I were Kim Lip I would immediately buy a plane ticket and go back to Korea by myself

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

me too 🙈

@Hellokitty_391

Жыл бұрын

@@dearyoongi LIKEEE it's so disrespectful grrrr I probably would throw my heels on their face

period.

The industry is built on image. How idols are Perceived, beauty standards and the image companies are pushing. At some point we have to condemn idols and companies for pushing unhealthy and unattainable standards. When idols who have personal social media they have more access to their fans and can truly do amazing things to combat the unhealthy standards but it seems like a lost cause. And this is no hate to any idol since they are also under the pressure. If and when do we push for that conversation to happen.

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

This is a great way of putting it! Kpop is renown for being a 'toxic' industry, but same with anything if enough people stood up against that..surely there's a likelihood something could change

PREEAAAACCCHHHHH!!!!!!

Someone happy sharing their weight loss/gain being a trigger to someone is whose matter? Is it their thought they aren't happy with their weight or going through some disorder? No! People should be able to share something that makes them happy as long as it doesn't disrespect anyone. The fact I'm happy with my weight gain has nothing to do with you being unhappy for not losing weight. That's ridiculous.

Number 2 is a really good point, a fan once asked taehyun to do an aegyo and he said “ no I don’t want to” while in many times he did it because he wanted to do it. some idols enjoy it some don’t. In txt kai is known for being a natural aegyo boy where everything he does makes everyone happy and that is fine. Forcing idols to do something like that

people in other cultures other than western are usually more intimate touchy feely with each other, most of the time it is not fanservice or queerbaiting they are just being comfortable with each other (btw queerbaiting is usually in fiction as i know of it) it is just your point of view like come on now i remember a french media covering bang chan and han hugging as queerbaiting ?? it's literally platonic love... friends touching each others butts, kissing each others cheeks maybe other places too except the mouth and shit is common here too idk what to tell u

@werikar2203

Жыл бұрын

and if fans are shipping them it is their problem they should be aware it is not right to ship real people, idols meet eyes with another member, some shippers put sensual music over it and slow the moment down you look at the comments thinking bffr and all the comments are fans believing the ship is real ( might be another idol too these mfs ship everyone ) it's funny and stupid to see

Honestly, when idols share their weight to show 'they gained' makes me, as a person with ED, feel even worse cause the first thing i think about is 'so you weight XX amount of kgs and say you gained? that means you weighted even less? i am doing my job wrong'. And even if i myself weight less (which is usually the case cause i am shorter than all of them) i still feel bad and like 'i should've done better'

The fact i agree 💯💯💯 with all of these facts, especially the third one, omg 😳😯

Queerbaiting really make me mad actually. As a lgbtq person, I always had to hide myself to be accepted in the environment I live. Always pretending, always hiding my true self, life been extremely tiring because i knew i wasn't accepted in this world. And seeing people acting gay angers me. It's not that easy you know, you can't act like a queer person to be liked but laugh it off and say it's nothing when there is a risk people might get angry at you. It's not a toy, you can't play with it. Being gay isn't a stage costume (I feel the same about other people like homophobic bl actors or other celebrities too, just it feels like queerbaiting is more common in kpop)

@Sophia-vj8sg

Жыл бұрын

But is it wrong if like two idols are being overly affectionate to eachother maybe not on stage but in vlive. Because they say it's always fan service but I don't think it's always like that. I feel like some idols can be affectionate toward eachother but that doesn't mean it's necessarily queerbaiting, is it?? And is it wrong if two people act cutesy toward eachother? But it's not necessarily for the camera.

@4everlastingstarlight

Жыл бұрын

@@Sophia-vj8sg vlive is no different from stage tbh and maybe I'm being pessimistic but more than %90 of those close moments are fake. Of course, some of the moments must be real and in korean culture usually same age friends with a long friendship do act cutesy or have lots of skinship but since most idols only meet just before debut or have age gaps it's more likely fake than real. But of course there are friendships that feels real like nct jeno and jaemin or got7 jaebum and bap youngjae, or there are special cases like vixx leo who was suffering from severe anxiety and holding onto his members all the time since meeting strangers was stressing him. But except a few special friendships they're most likely fake closeness

@Sophia-vj8sg

Жыл бұрын

@@4everlastingstarlight Yh, thx for answering. I do agree with you to an extent. I wouldn't say 90% of the moments are fake. Not sure. I do think some moments can be for the camera but ofc that doesn't mean they're not close or have genuine moments. And some moments can be like two idols just being affectionate/close or joking with eachother genuinely. But yh, I feel like it depends, like two idols can be touchy and affectionate on and off camera. And they can have moments where they are being genuinely close and moments where it's for fans. And they can have a good friendship and be close but still have many moments of fan service. Then some may not be close. So I agree and disagree to an extent. But I understand. Sry for the long comment. Thx for reading tho😭

@Sophia-vj8sg

Жыл бұрын

@@4everlastingstarlight Btw, when I said vlive I kinda meant when idols are more comfortable and they're just being close. To me, some moments can be more real and some for the fans.

@4everlastingstarlight

Жыл бұрын

@@Sophia-vj8sg you're right, after all we are just fans and can't know how they truly feel about each other. I'm just feeling most of the time they are being close for fans, not because they're not close since I'm sure most groups are atleast having a basic level friendship for working together every day but more like they're not at sitting on each others lap or touching each other level of friendship but doing it for fans And I think vlives are less comfortable for idols compared to stage since most of the time there is a big crew watching idols as they do lives and there are scripts to follow etc

Well about the opinion no 4. I say that it can be true that they didn't know about it as i come from an asian country and didn't know anything about fat shaming , the n word or even about the word bastard(well now i feel stupid). I learned about all this when i entered the kpop world two months back after i heard about the sunoo(sorry if i spelt it wrong) incident. Ofcourse I'm talking about my perspective others might not relate to but I had no idea. I once saw a similar video about some idol saying the n word and i was genuinely so confused at what that was and still donot know what it means or why it is so offensive, I just know that I shouldn't say it. This could also be because of my age or because of my parents as they didn't want us to have our own mobiles or any electronic device till we come off age(well corona helped us tremendously in that matter). Anyways my point is that it is possible for them to not know anything about that heck I didn't even know aboyt the lgbtq community( Im pretty sure that is what its called)(sorry if not) until coming into the kpop world . My point is that it is possible to not know about all of this but yeah all of them not knowing about it could be false

People who deny that its just cultural difference when it comes to skinship, kpop knows very well that it is queerbaiting. Korean entertainment just doesnt know the actual word for it. Especially when the cameras are rolling. Idols have outright acted out being a couple or actually acknowledging the shipping Like wtf is that twice wouldn’t have that segment in ttt where they acted out a fake reality dating competition even the members were confused and weirded out that jihyo actually had to tell the members in the bts that it is not real and they just have to pick a member to end up with. Its like they reverse uno carded themselves and queerbaited each other. Lmao. The producers know shipping members together sells. Racism also ties in with colorism the fact that almost all of the idols do not wanna get “tanned” or give each other shit by telling other idols that they are “too dark” says a lot. You wanna stan them? Then stan them but Lets not kid ourselves right now and call their shit it out for what it is. Also this is a god damn god tier video essay all the points were made and no lies were told kudos to @dearyoongi for making this vid.

I LITTERALY agree with everything! Don't get me wrong I absolutely love kpop and like to learn the choreographies but overall I will never be a fan of it because this is such a toxic, hypocritical and fake world.

could someone link me the twice fancam at the end of number 6, with them dancing with the sticks? i can't find it myself. thank you!

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

helloo sorry I've just seen this but hopefully I can help if you haven't found it yet! 💖 this is the fancam I used: kzread.info/dash/bejne/lGx_ztp_iM3ImtI.html

@BriarOrbit

Жыл бұрын

@@dearyoongi tysm!!

SM family is best family. Seeing them react to one another's comeback MVs is so heartwarming, especially older groups like Super Junior, Girl's Generation, and SHINee, because they've known each other for years and they have a lot of experience. It's different from, let's say, when WayV reacted to aespa's "Next Level" (the official video was shortly removed after upload because of a complicated issue involving China, but I think a fan reuploaded it). Younger groups reacting to other young groups have pretty "meh" reactions. Most of the comments you hear are about how "cool" the visuals are, but very rarely will the idols talk about the members themselves, mostly because they don't know them. But older groups simply know each other more, so their feedback is much more genuine.

@ninarances9074

Жыл бұрын

This is pretty unrelated to your comment, but hey, it's so nice to see a Kingme in the comments. I've seen quite a few of your KINGDOM stuff.

@Kingdom_Of_Dreams

Жыл бұрын

@@ninarances9074 Oh, hello, fellow Kingmaker! Thank you for your comment :) Who is your KINGDOM bias?

@ninarances9074

Жыл бұрын

@@Kingdom_Of_Dreams I don't really have a bias when it comes to idol groups. I love all of them😊.

@Kingdom_Of_Dreams

Жыл бұрын

@@ninarances9074 That is a great mentality! Even though there are members I like more than others, I am not picky when it comes to things like photo cards :) I love all the members of the groups I follow!

Jooheon would be the poster boy for ageyo….:😂😂

the idol acting like the fan's gf/bf is so true, it kind of gives the fans a "hope" that they could be together w the idol like girl sit down u aint in no wattpad y/n story

The queer baiting one is true kpop does it but also remember skin ship is more of thing in Korea so that one is less queerbaiting unless they are literally like pretending to make out etc. Also I watched a video recently on racism in kpop and how the western idea of ideal minority has really impacted kpop and i think a lot of your points are what that creator outlined as well.

I never thought idols were selling or doing fan service with their member using skinship, that just not possible. Maybe some idols do , for some time but not majority of idol will be able to do it all the time. At some point they will not like it. There r other reasons too like hving fights, disliking each other , contrasting personality etc and they hv to spend 7yr atleast together. For this long it can't be made up. Western fans might find skinship gay or plasic but that just them. In Korea same gender skinship is rarely perceived as romantic that's why they hv so much freedom beside they r kids growing up together , it's natural for them to be physically touchy when their members r first person they can rely on.

so true, I hate this things too

Even though I don't agree with all the opinions, that aegyo one is so true. I just cringe when I see idols doing aegyo when they don't even like doing it

FACTS Agree with everything

I have a huge example on the first one...I love Somi, and I've follow her for a while, but when Somi posted that scale pic I was recovering from my ED and it was extremely triggering for me, I had to unfollow her and stay away from her contrnt for a very long time, until I personally recovered.....

@genieispunk

Жыл бұрын

on hyuna's case I follow ber for a very long time and her posts really mean her trying to show she gained weight to make fans "less worried" about her health, however, I can see how regardless of meaning it can be trigerrinf

What's the group at 12:07? I feel like I know them but I can't quite put my finger on it

@dearyoongi

Жыл бұрын

It's Victon!😊

@UniStar-lk6nn

Жыл бұрын

@@dearyoongi thank you!! 🥰🥰

I do agree with the things that are said in this video.

not trying to deny that idols in fact do queerbaiting but skinship isn’t always queerbaiting, in other cultures same sex friends hold hands and kiss like on the cheek it is like this in my culture, i think sometimes it’s more on the fans than the idols, sometimes idols do play into this queer fantasy which i hate as you do but it’s not always the case