The World’s First Cyber Weapon Attack on a Nuclear Plant | Cyberwar
Stuxnet was a sophisticated cyber attack on an Iranian nuclear plant that may have changed the nature of warfare forever.
This episode of Cyberwar first aired on VICE TV in 2016.
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Пікірлер: 910
Thanks to Vice you can relive 2016 again and again, and again and...
@Konglomerant
Ай бұрын
Again?
@gumpycognac4505
Ай бұрын
And again
@ckrgksdkrak
Ай бұрын
And again until they get their ad views
@petricor1420
Ай бұрын
Thank you, therefore I won't watch the video and will instead dislike and report!
@FNameLName
Ай бұрын
Yes, but you wouldn't believe how many people don't know or understand Stuxnet. This episode is great for people to understand cybersecurity, politics, etc.
Reminder, this episode was from 2016, 8 years ago. Edit: Vice news is really wanting us to endure 2016 again
@ammonite-muscaria
Ай бұрын
Yes, important reminder
@jchastain789
Ай бұрын
Check out darknet diaries with my boy jack... current hacker ish
@GD-mw1kd
Ай бұрын
Maverick got enough time to push it on big screen.
@lil----lil
Ай бұрын
Thank U. Saved me the watch.
@rammo16
Ай бұрын
JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER------ America is in violation of the Symington Amendment by giving aid to Israel when they haven't signed the Nuclear NPT, and promote terrorism on Iran when they seek to develop their own energy program.
vice if your gonna repost old articles at least include the orginial post date and the tag #repost or something.
@Duckduckobtusegoose
Ай бұрын
The descriptions says it’s a repost
@kieronluke4657
Ай бұрын
Yeh but they could have atleast put it in the dam title smh@Duckduckobtusegoose
@og666
Ай бұрын
@@kieronluke4657it's not hard to read the description. can you not understand anything that's not hashtagged?
@johnk4396
Ай бұрын
324,185 views Mar 28, 2024 #VICENews #News Stuxnet was a sophisticated cyber attack on an Iranian nuclear plant that may have changed the nature of warfare forever. This episode of Cyberwar first aired on VICE TV in 2016.
@Niruase
Ай бұрын
@@og666 it's not hard, but the issue is that it is hard to know the description is important. Titles have the benefit of being on screen all the time (PC, non-full screen) and hashtags have the bonus benefit of popping out from being a different color.
whats crazy to me, is that my highschool in 2010 didn't allow unauthorized USBs to be plugged in we had to go to the tech room and show the usb to a teacher and he had to scan it and give it a little sticker saying it was ok to use on our laptops, but the Iranians at a nuclear facility didnt do this. wild edit: Irans
@Freiheit1232
Ай бұрын
I doubt that’s how it happened… most likely the engineer was paid by intelligence to bug the system
@themroc8231
Ай бұрын
This was not your run-of-the-mill worm. Your teacher's antivirus would not have seen anything, that's whata 0-day attack does. It is called that because 0 days have transcured since the attack has been discovered by security companues and therefore no countermesure to that attack exists yet. And the method used was to inject this worm in as many normal computers in the world as possible so that everytime a technician would break the air gap to import some code he would have more and more chance to be using a pen drive that would have been previously inserted in an infected computer. I don't remember the exact number but when Stuxnet was first reported on it had infected an astonishing number of computers worldwide, something like 20 percent.
@sforza209
Ай бұрын
@@Freiheit1232ok, but what dude is saying is Iran should of had something in place to protect itself from just some bad actor plugging in a USB stick into a computer and taking down their entire operation. AMATEURS! Hahaha
@TraceursMonkey
Ай бұрын
You would be surprised to find out in some second / third world countries this thing is still going on in governmental building. Simply because security protocols are overseen by employees, and security awareness is just something from a check list that nobody cares but they all sing the paper because is the norm.
@raenico5285
Ай бұрын
@@sforza209 There would definitely be a way around such a system whether it is a high ranking individual at the plant or someone who just bypassed security protocols
0 day means a technology virus we don't currently have a solution for. It literally means day 0, the first day of the existence of a new virus. It has nothing at all to do with the capabilities of the virus.
@Daniel-Davies-Gonstead-Student
Ай бұрын
Yes, zero-click was what they were talking about.
YALL GONNA MAKE PPL FREAK OUT 😂
@Theabstractblu
Ай бұрын
emotions will be tugged
@crackerjack2303
Ай бұрын
People that are helpless and don’t have guns lmao
@rammo16
Ай бұрын
JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER------ America is in violation of the Symington Amendment by giving aid to Israel when they haven't signed the Nuclear NPT, and promote terrorism on Iran when they seek to develop their own energy program.
@murrloc1859
Ай бұрын
@@crackerjack2303Hiroshima’s pistols did nothing
@00SamG
Ай бұрын
This story is about 10 years old tho lol
"We demonstrated the capability that you could have devastating physical impacts by cyber means" That seem like an accidental admission.
Remember that this episode was from 2016
@nochannel1q2321
Ай бұрын
It's also a bit inaccurate. The first known cyberattack dates to at least 1982 with software that caused specific massive damage being inserted into natural gas equipment destined for the Soviet Union. It triggered.""The result was the most monumental non-nuclear explosion and fire ever seen from space," he recalls, adding that U.S. satellites picked up the explosion. Reed said in an interview that the blast occurred in the summer of 1982." (Washington Post).
@kroooassant9899
Ай бұрын
USA is the main threat
@Saydomar66
Ай бұрын
Sure
@jjann54321
Ай бұрын
Episode is from 2016 about an event(s) that happened in 2010. And the details are very watered down.
@barrettabney
Ай бұрын
Interesting how this episode is more relevant today than in 2016.
The delivery method is incorrect. It had since been revealed that it came in via a part that was infected, not a usb.
@gumpycognac4505
Ай бұрын
Wayyyy more impressive tbh😂😂 them boys at Siemens hooked them up😂
@4thought___
Ай бұрын
Something stolen: USA did similar to the Soviets back in the day.
@bobguy6542
Ай бұрын
Source
@barrettabney
Ай бұрын
According to the dark research that came out 5 years ago, it was attacked through the HVAC system.
@xidney_
Ай бұрын
Also the threat analyst misdefined zero day as a zero click attack, I guess fact-checking isn’t one of Vice’s strengths
Interesting how an IT engineer did not know what a PLC was. A USB stick in your work machine. That has not "formally" been permitted since early 2000's in most commercial organizations that I have done business with.
@tonywalker4207
Ай бұрын
Things like that wouldn't ever be a standard educational criteria until there's an issue. 😅😂
@TriAngles3D
Ай бұрын
@@tonywalker4207 None of them will ever forget what a PLC is now.
@jjann54321
Ай бұрын
Because an security researcher (as you call it "IT engineer") is a software engineer and not an electrical engineer...? Do you think that all electrical engineers can complete a malware analysis because they are an engineer?
@TriAngles3D
Ай бұрын
@@jjann54321 Valid (excellent) point. In particular for "stick to your lane" type engineers. But the very best among us, including hackers, tend to be multidisciplinary. Mitnick's M.O. was less about tech and more about social engineering. As a "security researcher" it is important to be aware about the most basic instruments used in (critical) industry.
@anonymousreviewer169
Ай бұрын
@@TriAngles3D Totally unacceptable to have zero clue what a PLC is. A cursory understanding of hardware systems is a must for softdevs.
4 zero days in one piece of malicious code is beyond insane.
@emekaetube538
Ай бұрын
That crazy man
@Fatman305
Ай бұрын
That's probably $10m in value right there...
@jiszle697
Ай бұрын
@@Fatman305 Way way way more. A single zero day exploit that requires zero user input to execute can fetch up to 20 million dollars.
@EndeavorsDnB
Ай бұрын
I don’t know about them but I believe you.
@Fatman305
Ай бұрын
@@jiszle697 I was wrong, the other way. It likely cost less than $1m back in 2010. Look for Forbes article from 2012 "Shopping For Zero-Days". And note that even those ~$100k high-end exploits back in 2012 were much cheaper a few years earlier: "This is very different than in 2007, when researcher Charlie Miller wrote about his attempts to sell zero-day exploits; and a 2010 survey implied that there wasn’t much money in selling zero days. The market has matured substantially in the past few years."
Vice is killing it. Wait this is not zero days old?
@will201084
Ай бұрын
Vice exposing things that can get us all hurt.. like we really want Iran to have nukes? Tf they doing.. like Snowden.. all that for what? To live in effing Russia? Lmfao
This is such an insane story. Cyber security is still such paramount importance in 2024 and I feel like a lot of people are still very unprepared or uneducated about proper security.
@tx3973
Ай бұрын
Very much so! I'm been in cyber security an other aspects of the industry for many years and I'm still learning.
I wish they would date it in the head line instead of using it as click bate. Other wise well done.
Very informative. Thanks for the research
Nuclear power plant worker here, if someone was determined enough to attack a power plant and cause radiological sabotage... you're fucked. The NRC requirements aren't high enough to protect against modern threats.
@EyeKnowRaff
Ай бұрын
*stares in nuke worker at a plant with 1950 tech that's never heard of the Internet* I mean, they could crash our email and make it hard to watch KZread but, actually a threat to radiologic safety? Nah, we good.
@will201084
Ай бұрын
I heard power plants controls are so confusing even the hackers are like wtf lol
@RicondaRacing
Ай бұрын
@@EyeKnowRaff yes there's plenty of antiquated tech but they're modernizing it with ICS
@Ebap-dy9zp
26 күн бұрын
@@will201084that’s 🧢 they have old ass plc’s anyone can go online with and make edits
@phillipdavidhaskett7513
10 күн бұрын
@@Ebap-dy9zp I'm more worried about the spent fuel rods taking a long, HOT soak in the pool outside the plant. The eerie blue glow tells you that stuff is still plenty dangerous.
The interesting thing is that the guy who likely planted it. Who was a dutch engineer , died in a one sided motor accident a few years later in Dubai. He was likely recruited by Dutch intellegence services. Who handed him over to the israeli and US services. The strange thing is that most of Dutch officers who were actively involved by recruiting him had no idea that this happened. The whole operation was so fractured that people only know about their small part. Which makes it impossible for most people to actually know what was giong on. Which is the power of the organisation. Even high Dutch politicians did not know what the Dutch role was. And it is still is a mystery till today.
@ProfessorFatMan
6 күн бұрын
How is it still a mystery if you explained it?
0day is just an exploit that has not being disclosed yet.
@inility5772
Ай бұрын
Yea he didn’t explain what a zero day was lol .
@zaccomptonk590
Ай бұрын
@@inility57722:35
@gumpycognac4505
Ай бұрын
Uncle Sam ain’t gona do that for a while baby 🇺🇸🤠🤩 💪
Now this great journalism !
Excellent video. Very interesting, informative and worthwhile video.
Its terrifying to think that there are cyber weapons out there that could dictate if we live or not
@HanTheProphet
Ай бұрын
there aren't. in order to pull something like this off you need years and state resources. like a complicated spy mission. its not like some child can inadvertently do this in a fit of immature rage because the virus is just floating around its possible that russia or china could do this to some US infrastructure, but only if it was a long term concerted effort with many people involved, as it was for the allies that launched stuxnet
@MommaBear_316
Ай бұрын
@@HanTheProphet This video was from 2016 8 YEARS AGO PRETTY SURE THEY'VE HAD ENOUGH TIME TO UP THEIR GAME!
@nah4215
Ай бұрын
@@HanTheProphetever heard of an emp?
@ghostpiratelechuck2259
Ай бұрын
@@MommaBear_316Security has had 8 years to evolve as well. It’s a classical arms race. All it takes is for one to get through, yes. But how many are going to face back at you? Techwar has to obey MAD like anything else.
@pauljohnson2451
Ай бұрын
@@HanTheProphetare there, or are there not? You said both lol
What’s with y’all refurbishing old news that y’all already covered lately?
Pretty wild that the SysAdmins in the nuclear plant didnt block USB drives on their PCs. Pretty big oversight for something that sensitive.
@akki20897
Ай бұрын
Infected part not a usb stick
I really like this segment from vice. I wish they would continue it!
The more time goes by and information becomes more available new things are becoming apparently more common helping us to understand the complexity of the internet
Did he just admit it was the US at the end there? "We demonstrated"
@evildoer8994
Ай бұрын
Yepper
@ROBLOXGamingDavid
Ай бұрын
they did actually.
@philipstowers4741
Ай бұрын
😅q7@@ROBLOXGamingDavidthe i8776677u7766😅
@expert8665
Ай бұрын
U.S. sabatoging something Iranian sounds about right.
@Boomhauersdad
Ай бұрын
You really thought you did something huh
10:06 Literally shows us it being on the charts
Awesome to see Vice bang out great content
Oh man!! When I watched this for the first time by downloading it via a torrent, it was surreal! Now, after 8 years, it is nice to see it available publicly and I can share with everyone. This series was great! Can't wait for the Russia episode.
Symantec security: discovers super weapon attacking bad guys “We should let everyone know about this”
@FortunateWalker
Ай бұрын
I prefer a security company to be as neutral as possible...
@j.f.fisher5318
Ай бұрын
Agreed. Better than being like Kaspersky and their engineers getting arrested if they don't do what they're supposed to.
@sweetbabyjesus8467
Ай бұрын
Your idea of "bad guys" are not the same as everyone's idea of "bad guys."
@theforsakeen-9014
Ай бұрын
it got out of control and spread through numerous other countries.
@maxim3830
Ай бұрын
Symantec security: discovered super weapon that could wipe out lots of people at once and directly cause international wars "We should let everyone know about this"
Iran running Windows legally is impossible since Microsoft would never sell them license keys.
@sp-dm8ej
Ай бұрын
It’s called looking up windows keys, Microsoft actually doesn’t stop it because then they have more people on their OS
Plc's like siemens, allen bradley, sneider were not built with security in mind. These are in all systems in warehousing, factories and energy grids around the world. And the more advance the country the more vulnerable they are.
Stuxnet was the start of a new era
@ROBLOXGamingDavid
Ай бұрын
by then, it is already as dangerous as it can get.
Wait till Ai comes to cyberwars.
Need to keep making content like this.... hopefully
When he threw the blank pieces of paper, that really hit home.
3:04 really? You’re misdefining a crucial term 3 minutes into the entire video? That’s so shobby
So why would Chen and Symantec broadcast they found Stuxnet, determining it was a weapon and being used against Irans nuclear weapons program? Great they had the skill and fortitude to detect and decode, but why rat out the ‘rat’ being used against a larger rat?
@Igor_tigor
Ай бұрын
That’s what I was thinking the whole time while watching this
@Fatman305
Ай бұрын
I'm surprised they didn't get a call from Mossad or NSA to keep quiet
@catcoder12
Ай бұрын
Because it was already detected by a Belarussian company. If they kept quiet, that's just a clear indication of something shady.
@iiiKingLongSwipeiii
Ай бұрын
Exactly it's because they were in help programming this with the United States government to demonstrate what its capable of
@maxim3830
Ай бұрын
Why are there still people that genuinely believe that, in this time and age, causing geopolitical trouble will leave them unharmed?
For anyone wanting a more up-to-date insider look at this event, read "The Perfect Weapon: War, Sabotage, and Fear in the Cyber Age" by David Sanger.
Excellent reporting.
So its a real life Skynet without an A.I.
Who wants Captain Crunch?
@Akac3sh
Ай бұрын
me me meee
@sir.spiral2600
Ай бұрын
Yes
James Actin is not an expert on the IAEA. He is incorrect to say that the Fuel Enrichment Plant at Natanz is too small to fuel a nuclear power reactor. In fact, Natanz has a capacity for 50,000 centrifuges, sufficient to provide fuel for a 1000 MWe reactor such as that at Bushehr!
I worked on Siemens LOGO industrial controllers at the time...this is interesting...
What's interesting, since this aired Iran is one of the leaders in AI research. US firms tried desperately to recruit Iranian engineers but trump refused to allow it. That's why companies in Silicon Valley opened up research facilities in Canada and Europe, so thy could hire these people.
@arbaz79
Ай бұрын
If Iran is one of the leaders in AI research then how come Iran hasent come out with a leading tech company till now just like China?
@ghostpiratelechuck2259
Ай бұрын
@@arbaz79You mention two state run economies and question why private corps haven’t upset them in the same breath.
@rafayahmed6259
22 күн бұрын
Yep, they are now hacking the states that hacked them back then. Not extraordinarily, but still, they are now advancing.
Upvote if you came back from year 2032 to re-watch this.
@lewiskunst1089
Ай бұрын
And here I am in 2232 and thinking 🤔 You made a typo.
Full disclaimer I work with mostly competitor products but wow...Siemens: From Concentration Camps to Iranian Nuclear facilities. (According to the Siemens website and this video.) Too bad I can't bring this up in a business meeting without looking like an ass, lol. Sometimes being P.C. blows my mind.
Stuxnet was dangerously used & it came back to hurt us. But it was an incredible Team effort to pull this off.
That crazy
@Rynam
Ай бұрын
lol what’s crazy it came out 4 minutes ago. Confuzzed!
@Akac3sh
Ай бұрын
@@Rynam happened 2016 bro. things are twice as worse in the shadows rn
@rafayahmed6259
22 күн бұрын
@@Akac3shnot in 2016, 2009 i think
@Akac3sh
22 күн бұрын
@rafayahmed6259 dam bro that’s crazy !!
“The US opened a door that everyone will walk through now”
@will201084
Ай бұрын
No Vice and NY Times let our enemies now in detail what's up lol
Old VICE was sooo goooood
The code was inputed so after it was all put out then the ransoms could happen
Iran says, ''' How's your GPS Ship steering software working these days ? "
@gumpycognac4505
Ай бұрын
Smoking crack if you think the us isn’t gonna retaliate with something 10fold in severity lol
@SeaJay_Oceans
Ай бұрын
@@gumpycognac4505 What if the Baltimore crash was not an attack, just a proof of concept? Now realize the Millions of ships & trucks & farm equipment & other vehicles all dependent on GPS & easily hacked by A.I. more advanced than any tinyb organic human brain . . .
The FUTURE is not BRIGHT, it's SCARY as ffffff... Good luck & God bless us ALL - cuz we're gonna be needing it. ❤ 🙏 ❤ I sincerely hope not though ...
@opensam402
Ай бұрын
Vice..RIP☠️
@bigspin6309
Ай бұрын
Amos 5:18-19 ⚠️Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. 19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. 20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even
I work on PLCs occassionally as an electrician and they control everything industrial. Suprised it took this long to realize even if this is from 2016. Not much has changed as far as PLC security thats for sure
Stuxnet was old even in 2016, now its really old, thanks Vice
Seán McGurk, former director of NCCIC, US Dept. of Homeland Security: "I think that there is no clear... complete evidence or even complete indication that it was one country or another." Also Seán McGurk: "Stuxnet to me was a Trinity moment... we demonstrated a capability that you could have devastating physical impacts by cyber means." Hold on, what do you mean by, "we?"
@thikifo395
Ай бұрын
bro youre overthinking it, he means the employees of HLS, and anyone involved (not israel)
The thing with sanctioning Iran for so long is that they have learned to develop their own home grown versions of weapons. This could eventually spell disaster and backfire on the U.S and Israel ... Just saying. 🤔
@jondoe9548
Ай бұрын
You made some valid points.
@gustywind-de7xb
Ай бұрын
That's a good point you made.
@rafayahmed6259
22 күн бұрын
Yup if they did not sanction iran, they could pull more of these stuxnet type attacks. Now everything in iran is anti-stuxnet. 😂
PLC easy to program
parts of stuxnet is what affected the ship that hit the Baltimore Bridge.
Vice, with their finger on the pulse of the state of the art. They made a doc six years late, and released it fourteen years late.
the attack didn't even happen in 2016 either... this is old ass news from a million years ago. DEPRECIATED CONTENT. Not useful. errr... obsolete information.
Very educative for cybersecurity education
maybe reasons why on lower attrition type weapons manufacturing as well
To all those who are complaining that it's from 2016... Don't. The point is this is happening and has been happening for a while and vice has taught more of us just how fragile our predicament is.
Y'all better keep those nuclear power plants safe as if ur life depends on it from exploits
@rammo16
Ай бұрын
JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER------ America is in violation of the Symington Amendment by giving aid to Israel when they haven't signed the Nuclear NPT, and promote terrorism on Iran when they seek to develop their own energy program.
Great video.
21:37 I consider this statement as an admission of responsibility
Few people know that during one week in 2023: 1. The FAA's Air Traffic Control System went offline in the U.S. 2. Within hours Canada's Air Traffic Control System also went offline. They are completely separate systems. 3. A month earlier the Philippines own Air Traffic Control System went down. That was a test run. 4. For those living in reality, three separate incredible events in three separate countries is called a hack/ransom ware attack. The media reported them as just a catastrophic system failure...that was reversed within hours. 5. The value of Bitcoin jumped dramatically right after the U.S. and Canadian events = the ransoms were paid.
@zfarahx
Ай бұрын
Get a life
@lonesome3958
Ай бұрын
Whole lotta yappin
@ifxthenwhy6202
Ай бұрын
That's a pretty interesting claim, I've looked up and verified all the other stuff and the price of bitcoin does seem to increase dramatically over the days afterward. Love the level of replies from the two idiots above me tho
@fldnga8781
Ай бұрын
@@ifxthenwhy6202your post read my mind, top to bottom. This whole thing makes Jason Lowery's book Softwar all the more interesting.
@rafayahmed6259
22 күн бұрын
@@ifxthenwhy6202exactly, even microsoft pays ransoms, what the two above you on?
Ben has been cooking recently 👏
@gumpycognac4505
Ай бұрын
Bro this almost 10 years old😂
@captainspaulding5963
Ай бұрын
If by "recently", you mean in 2016.....
Anybody else notice that the interviews were sped up?
As a Power Engineer and PLC user this scares the hell out of me ..
Stop posting as if they were recent news!!!!
Nuclear power is probabaly supposed to be used to fly people to space.
Wait when he said ‘normal malware doesn’t go after control systems’ was he referring to malware outside of international cyber-terrorism? I understand that most cyber attacks are most clandestine but surely it’s not unheard of for them to go after control of the particular infrastructure/government facility
@Furry_Lord
22 күн бұрын
Do you think a normal malware could infect an unknown operating system? You know windows,mac and linux. However a nuclear power plant OS does not use any of those. So it can only be of someone that understands how a nuclear power plant operates from the infrastructure/bare level. Look it is easy to figure out if you just think a little for a few mins.
when the facts do come to light this will be a great movie
Why do channels re-upload stories from almost a decade ago? Especially news reports like this -- the technology discussed as well as the geopolitics of the region have changed dramatically since then...
@DarkandWeird
Ай бұрын
Understanding the past isn't necessary?
@daviday87
Ай бұрын
@@DarkandWeird that's exactly my point -- this is clickbait from their editorial team, pure and simple. If there was a desire to encourage understanding the past, this clip would be coupled with more context, rather than recycling this decontextualized story at a time when Iran & Israel are in the news a lot.
I'm single
@rehithkrishna543
Ай бұрын
Sad
@dill6827
Ай бұрын
I'm a double cheeseburger
@Dr._Brian
Ай бұрын
Pronouns about to be Was/were
@TheLittleSpoon1982
Ай бұрын
I’m double
@neddy1287
Ай бұрын
I'm a half pounder 😅😅😅
Genuine question is the interview tripping sack during the interview with the guy from Symantec? Pupils are absolutely massive for being in a lit room
Unsubed. Old content.
I'm guessing there won't be a new season :(
@captainspaulding5963
Ай бұрын
Considering this video is almost 10 years old, nope.
This video is more exciting than a regular movie, it’s even got it’s own plot twist.
Zero-day: if found, it is kept and not reported to the developers by the agencies for precisely this reason (to be used when needed).
More videos about hacking even if its a old video but you guys should make cyber warfare videos
VICE is still alive?
Some people call Stuxnet the opening battle of WW3.
so glad im a cybersecurity major rn
There was an attack on a uk power station two or three months ago in the uk
The combination of cyberwar and the recent AI advancements make nuclear weapons obsolete, the combination of both of these can do far more damage over a far greater range.
Nuclear *enrichment* plant, not a power plant. Massive difference in intent.
April 8th we must prepare 🙏🏿
It was a programmer in Minsk who first discover Stuxnet
With amazing reporting like this it's hard to understand why Vice went bankrupt. Who's uploading these?
i love this version of Vice, not the political one
I remember watching Zero Days 2016 movie about this.
*For example think of a missile* : and how it delivers its payload
looks like ill have to step in.
Wonder what happened to this insider. He probably was not a systems administrator, network security person but a programmer.
They are currently in conflict... Except their parents were able to be vocal
Thank you VICE NEWS