The mere existence of the Tree and God's prohibition concerning it is enough for Adam and Eve to have a *propositional* understanding of the distinction between good and evil: good coincides with what God permits; evil coincides with what God prohibits. But Adam and Eve wanted an *experiential* understanding of good and evil, something that they, in their immaturity, simply weren't ready for. As RPL explains, they wanted wisdom on their own terms and in their own timeframe, not on God's.

@RedPenLogic

Жыл бұрын

🎯

@dronecruisers

Жыл бұрын

If everyone would look into the Jewish faith of God's chosen people you will find that never in history have they believed that the original sin was a thing. God is not holding this on us and no one needs to be "Saved" from the original sin. If you read the book of Job in the Old Testament you can learn a lot more when you know that Job was not Jewish. Satan is misunderstood as well to Christians he is not a fallen Angel as you have been taught. No Angels have fallen and Hell is not a place. Hell is for everyone, it is when we will have a true heart to heart with God and we will need to be honest with God it will be harder for some of us such as Hitler, I am sure his heart to heart with God was not easy. But everyone will get through it and it will not last forever. God will repair the damage we have received on this planet and love us and send us on to what ever he has ready for us after this life. Don't believe me research the Jewish faith that has been hidden from you. If you believe in an eternal Hell then you believe that Jesus created it and I do not want you to believe this. The Christian Hell is not the same as in Judaism, how is this possible you might think, its because Christians created it not God. It was not a thing and Jews have never thought they are the only ones going to Heaven they have always believed everyone is going to Heaven. Everyone is returning to God no matter what you do in your life, but will you live your life for him because you want to and love God or because you fear him and do not want to go to the Hell you have developed in your mind. Its a personal journey and to love you must know what love is and to know what love is you also need to what love is not. When you are loving because you are love with God you will understand. God Bless Everyone.

@dronecruisers

Жыл бұрын

This reasoning makes God sound like he is a psychopathic God. The parent that drinks whiskey every night and leaves the open bottle out should not be surprised when the teenage kid sneaks some whiskey at some point. The same with holding the teenage kid accountable for this action their whole life would also be psychopathic.

@ready1fire1aim1

Жыл бұрын

Stop calling the Genesis 2 character God, idiot. That's the Devil.

@GranMaese

Жыл бұрын

​@@dronecruisers What you just said makes zero sense... Heck, your very example is extremely flawed. Rather think of a father working with fire, and warning his son to not play with fire. What is psychotic about that, exactly?

These people who deconstruct Christianity would never do this to other religions. Remember, satan was the first creation to try and deconstruct Christianity.

@rwmack3523

Жыл бұрын

Yo, this is an underrated statement.

@kingdomidentity

Жыл бұрын

And their arguments can NEVER stand against the Truth.

@gaborjuracsik4847

Жыл бұрын

These people who deconstruct Christianity are not aware that they are actually using this tool against their own understanding. I tried before I converted, but all my arguments fell apart over time. Then I gave up and converted.

@christianhayter

Жыл бұрын

Who created Satan ????

@KodyCrimson

Жыл бұрын

​@@christianhayter God created the angels, but Lucifer made himself the devil with his choice

When my children were very little, they also didn't know good and bad, or at the very least didn't understand the difference. I have many electric devices in my home that can be used for good or bad. And plenty of non electric devices, like knives and my fireplace. My children didn't understand that. I simply told them not to play with the outlets or the stove because they could get hurt or die. They trusted me, just as Adam and Eve should have trusted God. But if someone came over to my home and showed only one side of how electricity or fire works and not the other, deceiving my children to disobey, my young child would have gotten hurt. The tree most likely provided shade, a good thing, but the fruit was not good to eat, just like many plants today are not safe for humans to eat. Now I know that some people think, but you're not God. You aren't omniscient. I'm certainly glad for that. But God gave mankind free will, for without free will, we cannot love willingly. So yes, He could have not created the tree in the first place. But then, where was the freedom to choose. I understand that there's a movement to attempt to deconstruct Christianity, especially in America, but in order to deconstruct something, you have to know how it's constructed in the first place. Otherwise, you just end up with strawmen, and non sequiturs, equivocations, and appeals to emotion.

@NikoFinn

Жыл бұрын

Amazingly well said!

@kingdomidentity

Жыл бұрын

Golden! Thank you and well said!

@dronecruisers

Жыл бұрын

Very well said and I can clearly see your intelligence. I think what most people miss is that we are always children on this planet even at our oldest age we are still children. I think deconstruction is kind of the wrong idea but there are a lot of things that need repaired. For this topic of this video the biggest thing with it is that Gods chosen people never believed or were told from God that this original sin was something we needed to be "saved" from this is completely a made up idea out of the Christian church and anyone that researches Judaism will find its not a thing and never was. The second thing is sin period. Sin will not lead to a eternal punishment in fire. Again in Judaism its not a thing, Hell is not a place. This is made up by Christians that want to think life is some kind of court case and can tell people what is good and bad and you need to win the case to go to Heaven. Gods chosen people have always believed everyone is going to Heaven and returning to God after this life no one is excluded to them. Hell is for everyone, it is when we will have a true heart to heart with God and we will need to be honest with God it will be harder for some of us such as Hitler, I am sure his heart to heart with God was not easy. But everyone will get through it and it will not last forever. God will repair the damage we have received on this planet and love us and send us on to what ever he has ready for us after this life. Don't believe me research the Jewish faith.

@RedPenLogic

Жыл бұрын

Very helpful analogy. And couldn’t agree more about the current deconstruction movement.

@ready1fire1aim1

Жыл бұрын

[YHWH or LORD "Yahweh", that ancient serpent called the Devil and Satan (from Genesis 2), accepts a child/virgin sacrifice where a father literally slaughters his own daughter]: (not to be confused with God "Elohim" or Spirit of God "Ruach Elohim" from Genesis 1) Judges 11 Names of God Bible Jephthah’s Vow 29 Then the RUACH YAHWEH came over Jephthah. Jephthah went through Gilead, Manasseh, and Mizpah in Gilead to gather an army. From Mizpah in Gilead Jephthah went to attack Ammon. 30 Jephthah made a vow to YAHWEH. He said, “If you will really hand Ammon over to me, 31 then whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return safely from Ammon will belong to YAHWEH. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.” 32 So Jephthah went to fight against Ammon. YAHWEH handed the people of Ammon over to him. 33 He defeated them from Aroer to Minnith and on to Abel Keramim, 20 cities in all. It was a decisive defeat. So the Ammonites were crushed by the people of Israel. 34 When Jephthah went to his home in Mizpah, he saw his daughter coming out to meet him. She was dancing with tambourines in her hands. She was his only child. Jephthah had no other sons or daughters. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes in grief and said, “Oh no, Daughter! You’ve brought me to my knees! What disaster you’ve brought me! I made a foolish promise to YAHWEH. Now I can’t break it.” 36 She said to him, “Father, you made a promise to YAHWEH. Do to me whatever you promised since YAHWEH has punished your enemy Ammon.” 37 Then she said to her father, “Do me a favor. Give me two months for my friends and me to walk in the mountains and mourn that I will never have an opportunity to get married.” 38 “Go!” he said, and he sent her off for two months. She and her friends went to the mountains, and she cried about never being able to get married. 39 At the end of those two months she came back to her father. He did to her what he had vowed, and she never had a husband. So the custom began in Israel 40 that for four days every year the girls in Israel would go out to sing the praises of the daughter of Jephthah, the man from Gilead.

You could add that the fact that they both tried to put the blame on someone else demonstrates a clear understanding of having done evil.

@asekuvena

Жыл бұрын

Did they? I mean, if they didn't mention the serpent 🐍, what they said would be *very* out of context. A child will still give context, even if they think what they did is a minor issue.

@ryankelly9032

Жыл бұрын

@@asekuvena they didn’t simply give context, the tried to shift blame. Adam blamed God by saying the fault of “the woman you gave me”. Eve blamed the serpent, even though she was well aware of what God had said. They knew what they were doing.

@TheZenGarden_

Жыл бұрын

The problem is, they understood after the fact, and the women did not blame anyone, she just told the truth of what happened, the man also told the truth, but it was the wrong answer because he took absolutely no responsibility for what happened, instead he blamed his women and the Creator.

@TheZenGarden_

Жыл бұрын

@@ObsessedStephenKingFanatic1974 First you need to understand that the rule was given to him after he named all the trees and animals, and before he was given his women. He had to tell her the rule, his answer to the Creator was the truth, but it was the wrong answer because he took no responsibility for what was his responsibility, not hers!! He named all the trees and fruit, do you think he did not know the fruit she bought him?? Of course he knew, but what she brought him wasn't just about a fruit, or why else would they hide and cover their private parts after disobeying the Creator?

@TheZenGarden_

Жыл бұрын

@@ObsessedStephenKingFanatic1974 Believe it or not, the first Hueman did not speak the language of people who would not exsist for at least another three thousand years later. People speak many different languages now, and they all call the same fruit something different. Genesis 2 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

Yes and to follow what she was saying, the whole point of Christianity is to reverse the spiritual death that occurred in the garden and to restore our Union with God that we had in the garden. Christianity is not a scam, it’s accepting Jesus to restore our place with God.

@kriegjaeger

Жыл бұрын

Furthermore, what is it in action? Loving your neighbor? Being honest? Turning the other cheek? No one can claim a mark on Jesus's Character. If everyone aspired to be like him, the world would be a better place. But somehow this is a "scam". 🤷‍♂

@Ejaezy

Жыл бұрын

It is a scam because Adam and Eve sinning was always part of the plan (1 Peter 1:20). Also, consider this. Eve was not told not to eat of the tree by god (as god gave the commandment to Adam BEFORE he created Eve from his rib) so Eve didn't disobey.

@kingdomidentity

Жыл бұрын

@@Ejaezy Genesis 3:2-3…Eve knew.

@Ejaezy

Жыл бұрын

@@kingdomidentity Eve knew what? That Adam was told not to eat from the tree? Show me where in the bible god told EVE not to eat of it. Perhaps we are not reading the same bible because I read that god told ADAM not to eat from the tree just before he created Eve. You can't give commandments to someone who doesn't exist...

@kingdomidentity

Жыл бұрын

@@Ejaezy Eve knew not to eat from it. The source of the command doesn’t negate someone ability to follow it. Eve knew what God said from her husband. If I tell one child something and relays it to the other child, that child is still responsible. The point is Eve knew it went against what God said. And Adam was right there next to her and Adam was told directly by God and he still ate it.

They may not have known good and evil, but they certainly knew the concept of obedience, and what their Creator had told them.

@TheMrsgd

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! Including the fact they were also warned of the consequences of eating from the tree ie death.

@aaronmonroe7932

Жыл бұрын

As a former christian, I think that's the right way of looking at it. Their master told them not to do something and in the narrative they seemed to understand What they wasn't supposed to do.

@WriterofWorlds

Жыл бұрын

They didnt know of deception tho. They were provided everything they needed but the devil took it from them with lies. Eve gambled thinking she was gonna become like God. One in the hand is better than two in the bush.

@WriterofWorlds

Жыл бұрын

But at the same time if eve had just thought about it, she may have obeyed God. Why would God create humans that could be like him?

@sierraskye6779

Жыл бұрын

Yes! GOD desires obedience over sacrifice!

Eve knew what she was doing, and Adam was offered by his wife to eat the fruit. The two actively rebelled against the commandment of God by choosing to eat the fruit.

@banemaler

Жыл бұрын

The bible simply says Eve was deceived. We are dead in our sins because of Adams sin thus it was required that a 2nd Adam should come to redeem His people.

@Seeker7257

Жыл бұрын

@@banemaler Yes, Eve was deceived. But she also most probably enticed her husband and he gave in to her offer.

@markfry4304

Жыл бұрын

@@Seeker7257 It also says he was "there with her", so he watched the whole thing happen and didn't protect his wife like a husband should, but instead went along with it.

@Seeker7257

Жыл бұрын

@@markfry4304 Yes, signs of clear deceit.

@KodyCrimson

Жыл бұрын

​@@Seeker7257 They were told by their Creator to not eat it, and they could have told Satan "No", but instead listened to him instead of talking to their Creator about it

She gets mad at God for punishing His children for their disobedience but I bet she couldn't say with a straight face that she wouldn't punish her children for their disobedience lol We as humans are naturally hypocritical

@Ejaezy

Жыл бұрын

I saw no indication of anger in the video...

@oyinkansolaeshoYT

Жыл бұрын

@@Ejaezy Mad in this case as in upset.

@nicklopez8004

Жыл бұрын

facts

@mattm7798

Жыл бұрын

To play devil's advocate, I don't think she had a problem wit God punishing His children, but that it was unjust because they had no capacity to know what to do.

@amelialalllalala3914

Жыл бұрын

Hopefully she wouldn't curse their whole bloodline and species

If you think about it then it is quite interesting that the Devil did not truly tempt Eve by telling her to disobey God. The temptation was to become like God (Eve's desire) which was "achieved" by disobeying Him.

@mnight207

Жыл бұрын

Who else has the desire to be like the Most High? Remember that guy?

@antigravityparkourfreerunn261

Жыл бұрын

@@mnight207 Of course. I had a nice "revelation" the other day, that is why I find this whole situation. Scripture says that everyone is drawn to temptation by their own desires. However, in the case of Eve we see that the desire can be benevolent but still be used for evil by Satan.

@mnight207

Жыл бұрын

@@antigravityparkourfreerunn261 Yes, we cannot blame the enemy for our wrongdoings. However, he is the father of sin, lies, hatred and all things bad

@antigravityparkourfreerunn261

Жыл бұрын

@@mnight207 Absolutely agreed.

@time-to-think

Жыл бұрын

where in genesis does it say the serpent is the Devil?

The Dunning Krueger effect at work. When we know a little bit about something, we tend to be overly confident in that thing. It is the person who is truly trying to learn that realizes they truly know nothing, and as they dive deeper and deeper their confidence builds on what is actually true. We see both sides of the spectrum in this one video.

@davehill584

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely! Just remember that the bibles were all written by men. That's it. Nothing more! So sad to see so many fools here.

@annab3085

7 ай бұрын

Good point. You see this over and over again. People who have never read the Bible take one verse and are suddenly experts on what the entire book says and means!

I thought of something recently about how to put our lives (as the entire human race) in somewhat of a quote...and I came up with "God created everything, and created us. He said 'Choose your way or choose my way. My way is far superior.' And we've been proving Him right ever since."

@sgtbaker81

9 ай бұрын

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

I mean, even if they were ignorant of good and evil, GOD told them not to do something. Full stop. They disobeyed.

@illusion116

Жыл бұрын

I don’t think this line of reasoning is good enough. The video mentions the same point if I’m understanding correctly. If Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good/evil, then they would be completely ignorant as to whether they should follow this command. They wouldn’t know that following the command is good and disobeying it is evil. Then your back to the same “dilemma” that the women is trying to describe. He explains the problem with this thinking though thankfully

@ickirusfuhngause797

Жыл бұрын

Well said! They disobeyed God.

@christianhayter

Жыл бұрын

how'd they know it was wrong to disobey god? FAIL

@KodyCrimson

Жыл бұрын

​@@christianhayter God gave them a perfect world, there was no sin tainting it and causing the problems we have now. God gave them one rule, and they broke it knowingly.

@illusion116

Жыл бұрын

@@KodyCrimson this assumes they knew good vs evil which is fine and defensible as shown in the video. You must include that part though. Your response by itself is not enough

An analogy I once heard concerns a young child being told by his parents not to do something. He doesn't have any real understanding of good or evil, but he has learnt that he should obey his parents, so he is rightly punished if he doesn't.

@TheDoctor394

Жыл бұрын

@@ObsessedStephenKingFanatic1974 They were, but humans have continued to sin ever since, despite a better knowledge of good and evil, so we deserve punishment as well.

@Theawesomeninja_XD

Жыл бұрын

​@@ObsessedStephenKingFanatic1974 You're forgetting that people are allowed to make choices.

@ObsessedStephenKingFanatic1974

Жыл бұрын

@@Theawesomeninja_XD Not when they're manipulated and don't understand what they're doing.

@TheDoctor394

Жыл бұрын

@@ObsessedStephenKingFanatic1974 So we are not to blame for what we do wrong? It's God's fault for not getting in the way?

@TheDoctor394

Жыл бұрын

@@ObsessedStephenKingFanatic1974 So we have no control over our own actions.

The more I read the Bible the more I am convinced that God gave it us such so that prideful people will fall and will not understand, and humble people do understand. Some things seem to be so "obvious" yet wrong because fallen, sinful human beings think their own hearts are the standard of how to judge all things

Her whole premis is a straw man, her unfounded, made up claim of "they had no clue about what they were doing". That's patently false since the knew what not to do, eat of that tree. She is falsely claiming they didn't know that when they did.

@dogelife7901

Жыл бұрын

But she spoke so slowly, how could she be wrong?

@udonnauchegbu2018

Жыл бұрын

Also, God did tell them what would happen if they ate from the fruit. They would surely die.

@Ejaezy

Жыл бұрын

They didn't know that disobedience was wrong. We don't even know if they knew what disobedience was (as it had never been presented to them previously). Would you claim that a toddler KNOWINGLY disobeys a command from you?

@udonnauchegbu2018

Жыл бұрын

@@Ejaezy It's true that before eating the fruit, they could not distinguish good and evil, but the consequences should've been enough to steer them away regardless. Wage of sin is death and God made that apparent when he said that they would surely die. Even if they didn't know disobeying was wrong, they should've understood that it was not God's will to eat from it.

@Ejaezy

Жыл бұрын

@@udonnauchegbu2018 How could the consequences steer them away of they didn't know what death was?

Sometimes you can tell people just want to hear their own voice. It's not about knowing good and evil it's about trust and not trusting. I don't explain every way the world can go wrong to my children, I asked them to trust me in loving them and wanting what is best for them. Some things my children wouldn't even be able to understand if I tried to explain it to them.

Evil is defined in terms of good, being the lack of goodness. Before the fall, they knew the goodness of God but chose not to trust him and received the knowledge of evil.

@yitsous2

Жыл бұрын

God Said Gen. 1:26 "Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, ... The Serpent Said : Gen3:5 “For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” After eating the fruit, this is what God admitted in Gen. 3:22 " Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...”

@bmoresweetz7023

7 ай бұрын

So is that like saying they knew of good and evil even before they ate the fruit..?

It is really easy to deconstruct any religion or ideology (which is just a lesser form of religion) when you aren't engaging with what it actually teaches.

@Vaxxedhole

Жыл бұрын

These people don't care. They want to dish back the hurt they received. It's emotional blackmailing.

Just because they didn't know what was evil does NOT mean they didn't know better. God told them to not do it, and they had been given everything they could want. But they disobeyed anyways. Also this lady left out the part of the Devil enticing them.

@WriterofWorlds

Жыл бұрын

Funny how they leave the part about the devil out.

@Ejaezy

Жыл бұрын

Actually, not knowing the DIFFERENCE between good and evil necessarily means that they didn't know better. Similar to how toddlers don't know better when they disobey their parents. You wouldn't argue to a judge that the toddler is responsible for disobeying a direct order would you?

@Anne_one

Жыл бұрын

@@Ejaezy your age doesn’t negate the existence of consequence. If you tell your toddler not to do something, and they don’t listen and get hurt, then that is the natural flow of action & consequence. If you want to compare Adam & Eve’s knowledge/reasoning to toddlers you can, but you should also factor in the importance of trust which God continuously talks about. If you genuinely don’t know something then it is even more important to trust in words of the person with more knowledge than you. For a toddler that is their parent, and for human-kind that is God. God told them the rules. They should have trusted him, instead they chose to believe in their limited understanding instead, and they got hurt.

@KodyCrimson

Жыл бұрын

@@Anne_one Exactly this. They might not have known what was evil, but they know what the man who gave them everything they could want told them to not do. He gave them paradise, and one rule. And they broke that rule.

@KodyCrimson

Жыл бұрын

@@WriterofWorlds You got to leave the parts out that don't support your view, after all. That's what she lives by clearly.

The way I see it, they understood good and evil 'conceptually'. They had good, better, and best as their measurements, but they conceptually understood what evil *might* be. Just like we understand many things in the bible conceptually (the afterlife, hell, the events of Revelation), even though we haven't experienced them ourselves. When they ate from The Tree of the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the very act became their first example of what evil 'actually' is, and they were the ones perpetrating it. The tree may well have been a standard tree with standard fruit, but their eyes were opened to evil by the act of sin. Nevertheless, we too only understand this story conceptually. I'm 100% positive that the full impact moment actually transcends human understanding.

I'm so glad you approached this in a fair and non-aggressive way. The woman didn't seem to be hostile, and reacting angrily ("what a dumb question!") would've been nothing but damaging.

I like your channel, you simplifies the word of God into comprehension in not more than 5 minutes. Keep on exposing their ignorance and stupidity. God bless!

The longer I have been a Christian the more I see the sin in me always trying to gain they upperhand. I knew I was a sinner before, but I never realised the how deep and tenacious it was, in fact today I hate it and I hate that its inside of me. Knowing this helps me really appreciate the work of Christ on the cross, his death and resurrection, of justification and sanctification and this blessed hope. Today I can declare I am a THAT sinner who has been saved by grace through faith, alone. Adam and Eve knew what they were doing, just like I did before I met Him.

*PLEASE* please pray for my family..we are rallying together, around a family members death bed as I type this..I am the person who ALWAYS give comforting words in this situation and I'm really really trying to be that strong person but I feel I'm failing..I just keep holding her shakey hands and telling her different stories..I'm trying to keep her comfortable..I'm trying to be strong..I need to focus on not crying, not bawling, and staying positive, for her and everyone else..Brother Tim and ALL my other Brother's and Sister's out there, please pray for my strength as my heart is mercilessly being ripped out of my chest, ALL of our chest's..please pray for our comfort and the peace that surpasses ALL understanding..Lord PLEASE give us that peace and comfort 💜🙏💜

I love the apologetics because it helps to learn the hardest concepts, answer tough questions, and defends the faith 😄

Its always striking to me how profound people try to sound with inflection in the voice and expressions in the face when in reality the thinking is quite shallow. They disobeyed. It doesn't matter if they understood the command. They were given a command by our creator and opted not to abide in it. When our own children disobey us they often do it because they don't understand why we instructed them in the way we did. Their lack of understanding doesn't negate their guilt. They are still held to the consequences of not obeying us as their parents.

@zhengfuukusheng9238

Жыл бұрын

They wouldn't have known it's "wrong" to disobey

@briannehill7583

Жыл бұрын

​@@zhengfuukusheng9238 False. She was given an order and she chose not to heed it. She simply didn't know why it was wrong. She knew it was wrong because she was told it was. My guess by some of your previous comments as well as your username is that you come to Christian channels for the intent of stirring dissent. Try it on someone one else. I'm not persuaded and never will be. Dont waste your time or energy. After this I'll simply ignore you.

@zhengfuukusheng9238

Жыл бұрын

@@briannehill7583 This what you said in one sentence "She simply didn't know why it was wrong." In the very next sentence you go on to say "She knew it was wrong....." Just like your bible, you're full of BS....and you know it

@sysprogmanadhoc2785

Жыл бұрын

Breaking News: Amateur Christian apologist tries to defend her imperfect deity, trips up on her own logic, doing brainfarts whilst falling flat on her face

@briannehill7583

Жыл бұрын

​@@sysprogmanadhoc2785 if you say so buddy.

Its also worth noting that in the next chapter it says Adam knew Eve and conceived a child. So unless people believe that Adam had totally blanked out Eve this whole time, suddenly realized she existed, and then his knowledge resulted in a child, I think the word "knowing" seems to be more in line with "experiencing". Wisdom is after all a result of experience, which separates it from mere knowledge. A knowledgeable general would know how to fight a battle from books or texts. A wise general would know how to fight based on prior experience in battle. So when they were "knowing" good and evil, I think it was actually referring to "experiencing" good and evil. They were not satisfied with what God gave them as good, and wanted to experience evil against his will. And so they fell. Curiosity it seems, kills more than just cats.😨

2:10 I disagree with the idea that the tree is about experiential knowledge of evil. They became _like God,_ knowing good and evil. Experiential knowledge of evil isn’t a part of God’s nature, since he didn’t know evil (in that way) in the beginning. Only he existed and he is eternally good. I completely agree with his point 3 though. The tree was about accepting morality as spoken by God, or doing what is right in their own eyes (essentially humanism). _“For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5)._ _Some people think this means Adam and Eve didn’t know right from wrong. But that isn’t the case. They, at minimum, knew it was wrong to eat of the fruit of that tree. Eve even recites that._ _A better interpretation is this. Previously they knew good and evil based on God’s teaching. But they replaced God with their own knowledge. Now, seeing good and evil with their own eyes, they became like God. However, not being like God in power, knowledge, or authority, their view of good and evil descended to chaos. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes. This leaves us with the twisted, sick world we have today._

@RedPenLogic

Жыл бұрын

I share your first concern. Notice I said, “…. the act of eating from the tree disobeys God’s command and brings experiential knowledge of good and evil that they didn’t have before.” I think you’re right, the knowledge of good and evil can’t be experiencing evil since God is said to have the knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 3:22). And God doesn’t experience evil. That’s why I said the “act of eating” from the tree, which was an act of disobedience, brought an experiential knowledge of good and evil. So, knowing good and evil doesn’t mean experiencing evil, BUT, in this case, eating from the prohibited tree meant experiencing evil. Hopefully that helps clarify my view.

@levifox2818

Жыл бұрын

@@RedPenLogic Thank you for taking the time to clarify! I guess my concern is, though I agree Adam and Eve gained experiential knowledge of evil by eating the fruit, that doesn’t seem to be what made it more than just propositional knowledge. They specifically gained the knowledge of good and evil in a way that made them like God, which isn’t experiential knowledge of evil. Some suggest the serpent was merely lying. After all, he is deceiving them. But God affirms that their gained knowledge of good and evil was like his (in some way) in verse 22. I think what made the knowledge of good and evil more than propositional knowledge was like you said in your third point; it was the source of the knowledge: God or them. God doesn’t need an outside voice to discern good and evil. After eating, Adam and Eve could discern good and evil without an outside voice. This of course directly affected the quality of the knowledge though. Anyway, great video, and I appreciate your clarification!

@levifox2818

Жыл бұрын

@@trevrockrock16 Genesis 3:22 “Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever-””

@levifox2818

Жыл бұрын

@@trevrockrock16 Yeah, I didn’t realize it at first. It seems like the serpent is just lying, until I read that verse. The Devil is the master of half-truths. When the Devil tempted Jesus, basically everything he said was true in one sense but was used to deceive. But Jesus held fast to the full truth.

@muppetonmeds

Жыл бұрын

@@levifox2818 The greatest lie ever told was 99% truth.

Love this! And I love your thoughts on this Mr. B!

I love apologetics. Thanks brother for your breakdown

i was just wondering this and here it is. excellent timing as always man

I am going to be a pastor in the LCMS and I love your videos. I watch them every morning for my devotions. I gain so much from your videos and will be a better pastor because of your logic. Thank you and God Bless!

"Knowing" in the Bible implies more than just self awareness. To know good and evil means to have an intimate understanding of the two. Something Adam and Eve were not ready for. They were very aware of what they were told to do and what not to do.

When people say it’s bad that God put the tree there and told them not to touch it, I remind them that most of us do this today. I tell my kids you can eat anything in my kitchen except the poisonous chemicals I put under the sink. They have open reign in the kitchen except that one accessible cupboard is forbidden, because if they eat what’s in it they will die.

@christianhayter

Жыл бұрын

Young children don't know how to process the info that something is dangerous. That's why you don't leave dangerous things with young children, like matches, or chemicals, until they're old enough to understand it. Even if you say don't play with these. Its considered irresponsible Only in America you have children playing with loaded guns, and the many fatalities it causes, coz they're too ignorant, too low IQ to figure this out A veritable case of dung for brains

Don't know why, but I love watching your expressions as you watch these vids. You just have this patience yet eagerness to you. As always, I love your insightful answers and rebuttals. Keep up the good work and fight the good fight.

Yep, you earned my sub. This channel is really useful, God bless you bro. Keep preaching the Kingdom! ❤

"I'm gonna casually debunk a 2000 year old worldview from my car seat otw to get some food."

@christianhayter

Жыл бұрын

The fact its a 2000 yr old worldview written by primitive people extremely superstitious and with little science to support them, should tell us something

@littleredpony6868

Жыл бұрын

Nd boy did she do a great job at doing that

EXPERIENCIAL KNOWLEDGE!!!! FANTASTIC INSIGHT!!!!

Amen! Excellent answer!

Perfect response. Confusion often comes from not looking closely enough to the issue/passage at hand.

Very well explanation Mr B!!!! Thank you so much!

@RedPenLogic

Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@dansaber5853

Жыл бұрын

​@@RedPenLogic it sounds like you're drinking milk from the school master. I do believe in Good and Evil. I have pre-fall morality. Which means trusting God is good and eating from the Tree of knowledge this evil. This is knowledge people perish for lack of. This is strong meat. Woe to those who call good evil and evil good. There's a way that seems right but is really the way to death.

@zacharynash-pate291

Жыл бұрын

@@dansaber5853 Do you ever look at your motives and say anything bad about yourself?

@dansaber5853

Жыл бұрын

@@zacharynash-pate291 We can all imagine what the perfect version of ourselves would be; lover of oneself. Willing to break down the door which is Jesus Christ to get at him; rejecting the diversity God Made You with. Which is like rocks upon the head and around the neck. This is what's common to man. The desire to become like him is to become a strange flesh. To become The Shining one. The false prophet. Because his identity will not save you. Give up the old man.

@zacharynash-pate291

Жыл бұрын

@@dansaber5853 I'm sorry but are you delighting in yourself right now? I didn't ask you for any of those things. Your wasting your time and energy. Show me that you can be humble and answer what was asked.

I agree with your 2nd theory, to your 1st one though I would just like to say that when it says she saw that the tree was "good to bear fruit" I don't think it means the moral good but the objective good, like how someone can be a GOOD baseball player but not a MORAL baseball player.

So very well explained. Thanks a ton

Spot on as always brother, keep up the good work

Genesis 3:3 KJV [3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 😢

Think of what this lady's deconversion has led to. Instead of going to church on Sunday, or daily Bible reading, prayer, etc., she's now attacking her previous convictions; she's obsessed with it. She traded in one religion for another. It's kinda sad, actually.

@christianhayter

Жыл бұрын

Presumably she discovered her previous convictions were complete nonsense? Wouldn't it be the rational approach to ditch a set of beliefs you now consider to be unsound?

@SupHapCak

Жыл бұрын

No The NEW belief system she adheres to is “be racist and be loyal to the LGBTQ+ to the detriment of children” and “have free sex with 10 people and kill the babies” Because she doesn’t understand an analogous book of the bible, she traded in “All men are created equal” and “treat others how you would like to be treated” as well as the 10 commandments which are mostly how to interact with others. I don’t know why you hate Christians and Christianity so much for telling people how to be GOOD and do GOOD things just because you don’t understand the Bible. You really are like the little kids, or the devil, who say “it’s okay to play with the electrical outlet” not knowing you’ll be killed

I was actually wondering that myself. Thanks for explaining it.

Hey Mr. B. I just got back from the Reality conference in Augusta this past weekend, and I started watching your content; it’s GOOOOODD. You make such great points and use videos that are not only trying to downgrade Christianity but ones that are arguable and I just love the way you break it down and disprove them. Keep it up, and God Bless!!

I cannot help but notice the similarity between what was said in this video and various expressions of Christian thought. Namely the idea that a single person can interpret the Bible on their own, appears to be very prideful- wise in our own eyes idea. Also that what we think and believe can in any meaningful way be divorced from what we do. I think the speaker here correctly points out that it is our actions that demonstrate what we believe. At any rate, thank you for the video! I enjoy listening to your videos.

@dogelife7901

Жыл бұрын

Also the people who believe they can think their way to salvation or progress as humans, aka atheist.

@SupHapCak

Жыл бұрын

I don’t agree We should be free to interpret the Bible in the case of fascists who adhere to globalism over freedom and God’s word get in there and add “the 11th commandment - obey the government” This is also why I don’t respect papal authority. Jesus put one guy in charge to oversee what was already established. A council elects new guys who will do their bidding well enough and change the teachings to fit their needs.

@PetarStamenkovic

Жыл бұрын

@@SupHapCak I'm not a Catholic and I was careful to say that a single person cannot interpret the bible- whatever authority we wish to give to them. I believe it produces various errors and deviations. Given that, I do not think that the current pope is particularly bad. He is merely politically left and that politics has become increasingly authoritarian and overbearing. His political views are reflection of the times. Still, as far as I can tell, doctrinally he is upholding the faith well. He didn't change it more than it already was, since the schism.

Another thought to consider is that knowledge of good and evil is not necessarily the same as knowledge of right and wrong. A dog doesn't understand the concept of moral good and evil, but can still understand when it has done something wrong. Adam and Eve were like simple animals in their understanding. They knew they shouldn't eat of the tree even though they didn't understand morally WHY they shouldn't eat. They knew it was wrong but didn't realize it was evil.

@yitsous2

Жыл бұрын

God Said Gen. 1:26 "Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, ... The Serpent Said : Gen3:5 “For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” After eating the fruit, this is what God admitted in Gen. 3:22 " Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...”

@SupHapCak

Жыл бұрын

Eating the fruit did give us our humanity then, our ability to possibly become close to God

Excellent video and well explained. Thank you!

New to the channel. And love the channel. Bless you brother.

🔥🔥🔥

2000 years of theology debunked by tik tok 😮😢

@mzp6620

Жыл бұрын

not even 😂

@dogelife7901

Жыл бұрын

😅😅 they really believe that. Tiktac is a plague

@DotNetDemon83

Жыл бұрын

I’ve seen better theological arguments on the men’s room stall at my local gas station.

@gzu31

Жыл бұрын

Hahahahaha

@GodB4Games

Жыл бұрын

Nope!!!

Amen brother! It was the act of disobedience and distrust that caused the fall, not the fruit

You spoke truth brother. Thank you for your thoughts.

Now what?!🙄

If she's done more than one episode then she's done too many 😂

@dansaber5853

Жыл бұрын

You remind me of her

@HearGodsWord

Жыл бұрын

You're trolling on here as well then 🥱

@HearGodsWord

Жыл бұрын

@@dansaber5853 you reject Jesus and the Bible, so are rejecting the Way, the Truth and the Life.

@dansaber5853

Жыл бұрын

@@HearGodsWord I'm just here to discuss the literature. I'm not an idolater. If you take it seriously what are the consequences of knowing good and evil as God? Is it life... Or death? What do you think?

@HearGodsWord

Жыл бұрын

@@dansaber5853 see my previous comment.

Loved this one. Great question and great answer.

Thank you. So comprehensible.

As a catholic, my understanding was that Adam knew exactly what he was doing and that the taking of knowledge of good and evil for themselves is a symbolic act of trying to determine what is good and evil. God says, "they have become like one of us, knowing good and evil". This seems to me to be the sin that pervades our entire culture and the whole world. The world wants to be the arbiter of morality. Those so much to say about adam and eve. Like how Adam may have given into the temptation of satan because of his fear of death. So interesting!

Congratulations on 100.000 subscribers!! ❤

i appreciated the simplicity of your presentation

Thank you for this

Excellent answer! They chose their OWN intellect, wisdom and opinions rather wait for and trust Got for the perfect illumination that comes from the father of lights.

As a christian, i never cease to be amazed by the ad hoc rescues and mental gymnastics performed by christians. All groups, but yes christians too.

Well said. Good video, and my thoughts for over 10 yrs on it. Got yourself a like there.

Amen, Red Pen Logic!

Brilliantly explained. Tks

Nailed it, Brother!

Very concise👍. They already had a level of wisdom by faith (Rom 12:3) By the lady's logic, Cain couldn't have known that it was wrong to slay his brother, because there was no commandment against it at the time in scripture.

amazing how these people recording videos in their cars have discovered these mind-blowing arguments no one’s ever considered before.

Wow, thank you so much man. I've always wondered. I even asked my pastor this one and the answer he gave wasn't completely satisfactory. Yours really is though. Thank you

Amen… Perfectly said

Good answer, bro. Well presented.

Very interesting, gives me some areas to think about.

This might be my favorite channel very fun

Excellent rebuttal

You can't make excuses forever...people think very highly of themselves.

Actually, very good analysis. Good 👍

Amen. The Bible has so many themes that repeat themselves throughout it, and it's beautiful that God shows us that even the ones he created, the two people that literally knew of his existence, fell into sin. Wanting answers before God gives them to us is something I think everyone struggles with and the New Testament makes it clear that without Jesus, we are all doomed to repeat their mistakes in varying forms- even if we are too proud to admit it.

@asekuvena

Жыл бұрын

The snake 🐍 did too.

That was a good one 👍

Excellent video!

she contradicts herself within a minute, outstanding

“You shouldn’t have eaten the fruit” “But I did eat the fruit” “I know but you shouldn’t have” “Whatchu talmbout? I just told you I ate it”

Free will, disobedience, choice. Say what you want do what you want but all will be accountable and give account

Keep speaking truth thank you

Great vid

I LOVE a lot of these comments, here. Y’all got me shouting HALLELUJAH to the Spirit of the Living God. His wisdom is good. Thank you Jesus for my brothers and sisters in the faith. 🙏🏾😌👏🏾🤲🏾❤️‍🔥💪🏾💯

@Stingraycoolpodcast6996

Жыл бұрын

Amen

Well said.

Thank you Mr.B! Had the same thoughts as well.❤ Would like to leave a verse 1 Corinthians 16:14 🙏

Well-said. Jordan Peterson expanded well on this point; the tree of knowledge of good and evil wasn't just knowing what's good and what's bad, it was how we came to understand our own vulnerability (ala, "They discovered their own nakedness and put on clothes"), and, by extension, the vulnerability of others. By discovering how we could be hurt by evil, we also discovered how to carry out evil to hurt others, even though its counterpart--the "good"--also existed. It was the discovery of true evil that made things like the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, and the Rape of Nanking possible.

nice explanation

The book "The Beast that Crouches at the Door" goes into a lot of detail about this and Cain and Abel. It also goes into why did the serpent even want to tempt Eve and it's just a great read

One thing to notice that all throughout scripture it was the eyes that got people (and angels) in trouble. Eve saw the fruit and discerned that it was good. Angels saw the daughters of men that they were fair. David saw a woman bathing on a rooftop. That's where Romans 10:17 comes in: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Eve's ears told her one thing, her eyes told her another, the serpent helped instill doubt, doubt gradually became denial, and mankind plunges into sin trying to play God.

Tim Mackie at the Bible Project explains this very well a number of places. Basically it’s about Man setting himself up as the source and. Determiner of Good and Evil, rather than submit to God as the source and determiner. Red Pen did also touch on this as well. Thx

So I pretty much binged all of the content here. Where to go know? ^^ GOD bless

Thank you I hope you sent this response to them. It's so annoying when a person who doesn't know God or the bible but feels they can some how reinterpret it.

This is excellent. I was just listening to the Bible Project podcast earlier, "Solomon: The Wisest of Fools"

@Jesusisnumberone5740

Жыл бұрын

Tim mackie teaches false things

@JosiahTheSiah

Жыл бұрын

@@Jesusisnumberone5740 Tim Mackie teaches directly from scripture.

@Jesusisnumberone5740

Жыл бұрын

@@JosiahTheSiah except when it comes to hell and the lgbt. He has the same lie of the devil since the beginning, surely you wont die. Hell is a real place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. There is an eternal punishment. Revelation 14:9-11 (KJV) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. He also shames christians for not being as "good of servants" as the gay people in the church. Jesus said, apart from me you can do no good. Gay people will not inherit the kingdom and i base that upon 1 corinthians 6:9-11. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous2 will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: xneither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,3 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And ysuch were some of you. But zyou were washed, ayou were sanctified, byou were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

@JosiahTheSiah

Жыл бұрын

@@Jesusisnumberone5740 Tim Mackie affirms a Biblical view of marriage, that it is one man & one woman for life. He affirms that all sexual behavior outside of the marriage covenant is fornication. I've been through his teaching on Matthew 19 a few times as a favor to a friend; the way he uses "gay" is not in the sense of a _lifestyle_, but in the sense of an _orientation_ or _attraction_ that needn't be acted upon. Sorry to say you've been lied to about Tim's views on sexuality. As for hell, Tim affirms the reality of hell but doesn't seem to agree with what we would call the traditional majority view on what hell is. There are a _wide_ range of beliefs regarding hell, even among modern conservative scholars, among the reformers, and all the way to early Church fathers. Tim is certainly within orthodoxy, but seemingly not within the majority consensus. Bottom line, none of us get everything 100% correct. We must be always reforming, always learning and subjecting ourselves to sound scriptural doctrine. But to call a Bible teaching "false" simply because we don't agree with it-or worse, because we haven't taken the time to properly understand it-is both myopic and foolish.

@Jesusisnumberone5740

Жыл бұрын

@@JosiahTheSiah lets think about something. If someone had murderous thoughts and urges does that then make them a murdering christian? What if someone has a tendency to lie? Do they get the label of lying christian? What about someone that is greedy/covets? Are they then a covetous christian? The amswer is no. Yes we do battle against the flesh but you will not make a practice of those things if you are following Christ. The problem with the mental gymnastics to determine what he meant by gay doesnt matter. Gods word says that those that do those things have no inheritance in the kingdom of God. Adultery, covetous, lying, stealing, sexually immoral, homosexual, etc. Also many people can have many ideas and wrong beliefs. Thats why the Holy Spirit teaches us, in Him is no lie. He leads in correct doctrine, otherwise you will be carried away with every wind of doctrine. No one has lied to me besides Tim Mackie on what the Bible says. Tim affirms his interpretation of Hell. He doesnt believe God created hell but that we did. Blatantly against what scripture says. Saying that we experience hell here and that we made sin and hell. Nowhere in scripture to be found. The devil tempted eve and sin entered into the world. He affirms a false reality of hell. If a teaching isnt true, then its false. Therefore its a false teaching. It isnt my personal disagreeance with his view of Bible teaching but that the Bible points that what is being said isnt true. I also believe God can take those things away. Im not sinless but He has taken a lot of wicked/sinful things out of my life. Galatians 5 works of the flesh was an accurate description of my life. The problem is i could "indentify" as a christian but it didnt make me one. I still lived wickedly. Until God called and i answered, He changed my mind and heart. The desires i once had for sin is gone. I dont indentify as anything other than christian because there is no other. A gay christian is a misnomer. Just like a murdering christian is a misnomer or a lying christian. If you live in wickedness and practice wickedness then you dont know Christ. By their fruits you shall know them.

Dang man that was epic