Well, I think it’s a basic psychoanalytic principle that even in the most mature person the infant, the child, the latency kid, the adolescent, etc. all remain. Certainly the still face will likely do less damage to a fairly evolved neurotic then it will too more fragile and troubled patient. I’m not sure it is ever justified. Certainly the analysts quiet waiting and careful consideration of what the patient is saying is not to be equated with the steel face. I can be filled as a warm but quiet presence. I can be making lots of noises indicating my presence and my interest instead of giving the patient absolute silence.

Yes, regrettably, this is true. Thanks for sharing your view.

Thank you. The opposite is the warm Virginia Satir's way. Which I love.

@doncarveth

Жыл бұрын

Yes

..that's right psychotherapy....psychoanalysis is a different enterprise...not going into the merit of it..but they are different

I agree with everything you said 100%.

Very important video, thanks! The gaze as a technique, I opine, reflects as does all techniques a lack of maturity. The capacity to be and to fully trust the alivenes and wisdom that comes from the encounter and our innermost source is oftentimes lacking. So compensation through technique is necessary and of course detrimental to the relationship and the patients' development. My experience is from psychotherapy and spirituality, primarily zen buddhism. To become truly authentic, to truly find rest and trust in our essential being, requires hard work over long periods of time. Most people, even so called senior professionals, tends to avoid such self-explorations to some extent. Only the rare ones blossom fully. Regardless of what area of human endeavour, very few people go all the way. Sorry, but my suscipicion is that we will have to face the use of techniques, simply because professionals will continue to sense lack and unconsciously strive to compensate. It is good though to correct the worst usage of bad techniques.

@doncarveth

5 жыл бұрын

Jonas, thank you for this very helpful and apt response. I agree.

Adding link to Trondik's experiment here for ease of access: kzread.info/dash/bejne/k6Suuql-kr3OpJM.html

I would argue the only neutral “still face” that exists is one with eyes closed. Still face with eyes open generates emotion one way or another - when speaking on intimately personal topics.

I agree with you, and thank you for sharing your thoughts about this. But in an attempt to explore your points further, allow me to play a devil's advocate: One could make an argument that, the Tronick experiment with an infant notwithstanding, a "still face" stance in psychotherapy is a different matter because a patient has stronger mental capacities than an infant, and so a moderate distress due to emotionally blank interpretations could be an acceptable side effect of this technique, when compared to the presumed advantage of receiving uncontaminated input from the patient.

@apove1814

4 жыл бұрын

So you’re saying that when you want someone to discuss a personal issue with you, about your own well being and wellness - you want them to have still face? Your critical response regarding still face might make sense if we were speaking about an educational topic or lecture, but even adults need engaging cues to feel as if the person were speaking with is authentic.

Unfortunately, it is very much present and enacted dynamic of a particular version of perversion in the Psychoanalytic field that can be observed on the institutional level of Psychoanalytic training. Over many decades it became both, implicit and explicit normative a Candidate must internalize as a measure of personal and professional ‘maturity’. The lack of critical reading, the lack of continuous development of analytic thinking (Bion); oblivious position with regards to historical facts of development of Psychoanalytic concerts usually justified with equally destructive nowadays called ‘eclecticism’; transgenerational transmissions of trauma and conflict as well as transgenerational opposition, and much more, created this unfortunate amalgamation and mostly confusion in the field. So far, I’ve realized (from professional experience mostly) that so-called Self Psychologists or relational individuals or groups are amongst the most conflicted ones in the field actually. The level of aggression hidden behind the acts of usually forced ‘empathy technique’ is simply extraordinary. So, the ‘still face’ phenomena, accompanied with institutional ‘wild analysis’ are pretty much relevant perversions in (of) the Psychoanalytic field. And let me add that when ‘empathy’ and analytic thinking fails ‘still face’ is always a ‘good, solution, right? The ‘Still face’ phenomena might be one of the reasons why Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy is equalized with Psychoanalysis and the use of analytic couch is almost banned. Candidates are reading significantly less and Training Institutes are tailoring theoretical curriculum - more and more - as a symptom of sometimes devastating ‘blind spots’. I’m witnessing more and more ‘arrogance, stupidity and curiosity’ (Bion) hijacking Training Institutes in America. Truly sad.

Hey Don, you can found out more about this experiment on the Netflix series "Babies" I think. Best,

@doncarveth

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks

8mins- Wow- never knew of said "still face" - been calling it 'automaton' when calming our confused dogs. We have one each. My dog walking partner exhibits a still face 24/7. I feel anxious and angered. To ignore us I'm now used to but what is it and what does it mean? He has done this his whole life, he says he feels fine. When I press ANYTHING authentic or emotive, dare I point out anything I thinks wrong or have been wronged, he repeatedly, calmly says "shoosh". Sometimes with a finger over his mouth. Like a child. His son committed suicide, an only child with no outer problems or issues at 27. I feel I fit into his substitute role. However I feel covertly manipulated into disappearing as a person. Or am I crazy. I don't think so. Anyhow-- does this still face in adults have a diagnostic name pls? Or is there a motive behind such? Have you ever heard of this before in adult men? Caroline, 37 Dingwall 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 (up in the hills and far away where psychology is rarely discussed) God bless

@doncarveth

3 жыл бұрын

I am not sure if this has a recognized diagnosis, but many clinicians would recognize it as a symptom of emotional shut down. Could being a traumatized patient, someone back from the wars. Could be a schizoid personality. Could be a failure to mourn. Certainly a problem. God bless