The SLIMY Tactics of Orthodox Apologists

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Slimy Tactics of Orthodox Apologists
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Пікірлер: 557

  • @MilitantThomist
    @MilitantThomist3 ай бұрын

    Me: "For the sake of argument." "Let's just pretend." "Here's an example." Orthos in my comment: "yOuRe MaKiNg aN AsSumpTioN"

  • @GhostofFranky

    @GhostofFranky

    3 ай бұрын

    Well of course the entire line of argumentation of all RCs is grant me all my assumptions first and then you will see Papacy. Jay Dyer points this out all the time. The paradigm itself is in question so we dont just grant you all of your assumptions. This is low tier dude. Youre getting dunked on by a casual jay dyer fan, how could you argue against jay?

  • @SevereFamine

    @SevereFamine

    3 ай бұрын

    @@GhostofFrankyLol, I don’t think I’d use the word “dunk”

  • @GhostofFranky

    @GhostofFranky

    3 ай бұрын

    @@SevereFamine well he has been thoroughly refuted by quite a few people in the comments already. I guess you can’t lose at basketball if you don’t know how to play basketball. Its like you’re over here scoring touchdowns on the basketball court and saying you won the basketball game.

  • @marvalice3455

    @marvalice3455

    3 ай бұрын

    @@GhostofFranky slimy

  • @GhostofFranky

    @GhostofFranky

    3 ай бұрын

    @@marvalice3455 when your only perception of reality is that of a worms I suppose you would see slime wherever you turn

  • @Swampfox.
    @Swampfox.3 ай бұрын

    Remember, half of the Orthobros commenting online are not even actual members of any Orthodox church. This will make them seethe.

  • @user-vv1do1wg1j

    @user-vv1do1wg1j

    2 ай бұрын

    all of the catholics are not a part of the one Apostolic Catholic church go get your barney blessing

  • @voxpopuli8132

    @voxpopuli8132

    Ай бұрын

    Yes,I became aware of this recently. It is really extraordinary, if you think about it. Also, this "Fr Heers" doesnt have a bishop. He is a one-man church (=show), as far as we know...

  • @USDebtCrisis

    @USDebtCrisis

    Ай бұрын

    you would actually have to find one first

  • @genericname7020

    @genericname7020

    28 күн бұрын

    I don't think I have ever seen an Orthodox church. All I see is Catholic and Protestant. To be honest, I didn't even know what the Orthodox were until last year

  • @andrewvee7793

    @andrewvee7793

    20 күн бұрын

    @@voxpopuli8132No way 😭😭

  • @hap1678
    @hap16783 ай бұрын

    Completely correct. They viciously attack our position like it proves theirs. This is the equivalent of an atheist attacking the resurrection of Christ thinking it’s proving his position.

  • @alexeptop

    @alexeptop

    4 күн бұрын

    this is just an assumption that the orthodox church isnt the apostolic church so proving u wrong doesnt matter, but historically ur wrong

  • @fatalheart7382
    @fatalheart73823 ай бұрын

    "Pretend with me for a second."- Buddy, I'm a non-denominational protestant. I have been pretending my WHOLE life.

  • @MeanBeanComedy

    @MeanBeanComedy

    2 ай бұрын

    Time to find some roots,Hoss.

  • @TokenWhiteGuyAGR

    @TokenWhiteGuyAGR

    25 күн бұрын

    lmao

  • @abominable.7800

    @abominable.7800

    15 күн бұрын

    right lol

  • @musician17
    @musician173 ай бұрын

    Wether Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant. I hope all brothers and sisters in Christ reach sincere repentance and live a life that God wants for them. Humble, Holy, Self Controlling and Kind. May the Blessings of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

  • @libatonvhs

    @libatonvhs

    3 ай бұрын

    Amen

  • @tradertrader8838

    @tradertrader8838

    3 ай бұрын

    amen!

  • @FireSquad101

    @FireSquad101

    Ай бұрын

    Amen, and thank you brother

  • @libatonvhs
    @libatonvhs3 ай бұрын

    Submit to pastor Jim's Free Will Baptist Church

  • @Corpoise0974

    @Corpoise0974

    3 ай бұрын

    The true apostolic Catholic faith.

  • @VincentDaly-cp6yq

    @VincentDaly-cp6yq

    3 ай бұрын

    Real

  • @jalapeno.tabasco

    @jalapeno.tabasco

    2 ай бұрын

    Free will is a myth and baptism is for believers and their children by sprinkling

  • @heathc148

    @heathc148

    Ай бұрын

    😂 😂

  • @DarthMarr2009
    @DarthMarr20093 ай бұрын

    Im agnostic and I can observe due to anti catholic sentiment, only the best catholic apologists are out there. Really goes to show quality and integrity.

  • @Callixtus-sc1en

    @Callixtus-sc1en

    18 күн бұрын

    Come home please.

  • @DarthMarr2009

    @DarthMarr2009

    18 күн бұрын

    @@Callixtus-sc1en I have converted to manichaeism. You can still be agnostic and manichaean because intent matters, not faith.

  • @OVOFloyd

    @OVOFloyd

    11 күн бұрын

    @@DarthMarr2009meme religion but still based 😂😂

  • @harleymann2086
    @harleymann20863 ай бұрын

    The online EO is the most “stiff-necked” group of people online. It is easier to talk to victims of a present day war than an online EO about the inconsistencies of their position.

  • @ZachRhodes-wz7px

    @ZachRhodes-wz7px

    3 ай бұрын

    I would be curious as to what type of inconsistency you see in the Eastern Orthodox position. If I could please get some direct contradictions you have detected, and not your position on the Eastern Orthodox position.

  • @marvalice3455

    @marvalice3455

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@ZachRhodes-wz7px divorce. Baptism. "we totally care about the great commission, but don't you realize mission work is hard?". That's literally just off the top of my head

  • @dianekamer8341

    @dianekamer8341

    3 ай бұрын

    Man, that is *so* true.

  • @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@marvalice3455 There's no inconsistency about divorce or baptism. The entire Church agrees about how divorce works, as well as baptism, though some Westerners who have become Orthodox dispute the Church's traditional teaching on baptism. Also, we Eastern Orthodox do evangelize. The Russians historically have evangelized in Siberia and Alaska.

  • @JakobKerns

    @JakobKerns

    3 ай бұрын

    @@tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau Extreme cope😂

  • @namapalsu2364
    @namapalsu23643 ай бұрын

    The more important point in Wagner video is not only that "if Cath is wrong it doesn't mean Orthodox is right." But the more deeper and important point is, ORTHODOX CAN NOT GIVE US REASON WHY THEY ARE RIGHT (or, what is the correct position) So, suppose you agree with Orthodox that the roman view of primacy is wrong, when you ask them "what then is the correct view?" They don't have an answer. Because their view is just "anything else but the roman view of primacy." Even now Greek and Russia are fighting over what "primacy" is.

  • @Orthodoxology

    @Orthodoxology

    3 ай бұрын

    Well that’s silly. Regardless and unrelated, have you ever heard of apophaticism?

  • @namapalsu2364

    @namapalsu2364

    3 ай бұрын

    @@Orthodoxology Yes. Proves my point even more.

  • @achilles4242

    @achilles4242

    3 ай бұрын

    100% this. They position themselves as the Pepsi of Christianity to the Catholic Church’s Coke lol.

  • @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    3 ай бұрын

    There are arguments that have been provided for why you should become Orthodox by Orthodox apologists. We also have provided responses for what the correct view of primacy is. Constantinople, at the moment, is in conflict with most the rest of the Church over what primacy is because it has overextended its power in many regards, and because it is promulgated some Ecumenist policies, such as apparently aiming for Union with Rome. Disregarding primacy though, I think we have provided good metaphysical arguments against Absolute Divine Simplicity, Created Grace, and the Filioque and for the Essence-Energies Distinction, Uncreated Grace, and Eternal Manifestation.

  • @matthewoburke7202

    @matthewoburke7202

    3 ай бұрын

    @@sihtnaelkk2187 Agreed, but conciliarism has no basis in the first millennium. Not even in the fifth council can you say that the first millennium Church was conciliarist, since the fifth council still recognized Pope Vigilius as Pope, preserved union with his see (even after removing his name from the diptychs), and beseeched him to participate in the council, since they still needed his authority to ratify the council and make it ecumenical. This remained the rule for councils, even up until the seventh council (Nicaea II) which openly declares that the Pope must approve of a council for it to be ecumenical.

  • @George_033
    @George_0333 ай бұрын

    I'll admit, there are issues with our Orthodox Apologists. I think they're very impatient a lot of the time as well. As an Orthodox think I'd have a hard time discussing with them.

  • @rass4609

    @rass4609

    3 ай бұрын

    You are very introspective George, i commend you for that. My favourite online person from y'alls camp is a guy called Jonathan Pageau, i find him extremely impressive but he doesn't do apologetics like that.

  • @George_033

    @George_033

    3 ай бұрын

    @@rass4609 He's quite the man for sure. In general I recommend people to priests rather than twenty year olds on the internet. They may know more than me (even though I'm studying apologetics myself), but It's just not a peaceful learning experience.

  • @dianekamer8341

    @dianekamer8341

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@George_033 I honestly think some of them are still in middle school.

  • @bruh-dg5yw

    @bruh-dg5yw

    3 ай бұрын

    @@rass4609 The only thing about Pageau is that I think he entertains other people’s positions so heavily in discussion that he almost concedes too much to opposing positions. Like the way him and some others in his community (like Paul Vanderklay, Jordan Peterson, and John Vervaeke) speak, it seems like they don’t think God actually exists. I do love Pageau, he was a big part of bringing me out of materialism and agnosticism and back to Christianity, but after consuming so much of those people’s content I became confused and maybe a bit suspicious about what they were actually teaching.

  • @rass4609

    @rass4609

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@bruh-dg5yw i'm a Roman Catholic and i never really watch those other 3 guys, but for the rest i can totally guarantee you, Pageau is fully Eastern Orthodox Christian. And probably a more well versed theologian than the others alongside that Seraphim Hamilton guy. The way he described the Trinity in one video was pretty remarkable and it was text book Palamism too even though i don't agree with Palamism, it's called "Responding to Muhammad Hijab" or something. He probably just dislikes the sport of pop apologetics though he is similar to Militant Thomist in that regard. In other words he is an adult that is way too old for that crap

  • @hap1678
    @hap16783 ай бұрын

    I am so glad I became Catholic instead of EO

  • @rass4609

    @rass4609

    3 ай бұрын

    Me too

  • @jalapeno.tabasco

    @jalapeno.tabasco

    2 ай бұрын

    they're both wrong lol

  • @hap1678

    @hap1678

    2 ай бұрын

    @jalapeno.tabasco Dude, no one cares about your church that was made in the 1500s respectfully. I much rather trust the Holy Theologians of the church.

  • @TruLuan

    @TruLuan

    2 ай бұрын

    ​@@jalapeno.tabascoAccording to who? On whose authority and interpretation of the scriptures and councils?

  • @IsaiahINRI

    @IsaiahINRI

    Ай бұрын

    Same. Haven't regretted it since

  • @Euphrosynos
    @Euphrosynos2 ай бұрын

    I’m a former Protestant now Eastern Orthodox Christian. I love all my Catholic brothers and sisters! I don’t think the Byzantines are cringe, and I’m understanding of y’all’s liturgical changes. I just feel like if we truly try to love each other as we are supposed to instead of debating online/in person, given enough time and humility then we can get out of our way, and let the Holy Spirit fix this problem of disunity. Anyway that’s my rant. If anyone has any suggestions let me know. God bless you all my siblings in Christ. ❤

  • @Apostola33

    @Apostola33

    Ай бұрын

    Despite all the confusion and arguments online, never forget that we love our Orthodox brothers and sisters! May God bless you abundantly and may we one day see each other in Heaven! Let us pray for the reunion of our churches😀

  • @javierduenasjimenez7930

    @javierduenasjimenez7930

    Ай бұрын

    Thus is the kind of orthodoxy that will make you find salvation and eventual reunion

  • @S.LouisIX

    @S.LouisIX

    15 күн бұрын

    Refreshing take to hear. Glory to Jesus Christ!

  • @Patriarch.Chadimus
    @Patriarch.Chadimus29 күн бұрын

    As an Orthodox I've been exceptionally frustrated at this sort of "apophatic RC" that many in the Dyer crowd believe Orthodoxy is. I obviously believe Orthodoxy is true, but I experience this all the time (denial of Original sin, denial of Divine Simplicity, polytheistic view of the Divine Energy etc.) where Orthodoxy is basically believed to be what Protestantism and Roman Catholicism isn't... in all cases. But that's not what Orthodoxy is. We aren't simply an OPPOSITION to "da ebil West" lol.

  • @javierduenasjimenez7930

    @javierduenasjimenez7930

    7 күн бұрын

    That's also what I feel like when an orthobro starts "telling the Roman heressies" or "the grave sin of ecumenism". It feels as if sometimes these people are more afraid of agreeing with Catholicism than not having anything to positively propose. Sometimes the Orthodoxy these people bring feels like the negation of something else. I feel you brother

  • @everettpeabody8024
    @everettpeabody80243 ай бұрын

    As a protestant really appreciate this video lol

  • @rass4609

    @rass4609

    3 ай бұрын

    He indirectly praised you here and put you above the EO, well if you are a magisterial protestant atleast

  • @everettpeabody8024

    @everettpeabody8024

    3 ай бұрын

    @@rass4609 I'm an Anglican

  • @rass4609

    @rass4609

    3 ай бұрын

    @@everettpeabody8024 wonderful God bless you

  • @Totustuus-gu9do

    @Totustuus-gu9do

    3 ай бұрын

    But don't protestants do the same thing though?

  • @harrisonphillips8365

    @harrisonphillips8365

    2 күн бұрын

  • @Jericho2323
    @Jericho23233 ай бұрын

    As a person who is in between and too ignorant to choose. I wish the Orthodox and Catholics had better and more discussions on these topics. I know it happens occasionally but not as much as it should considering we all want the truth and have universally concluded Jesus is our savior.

  • @UnionSince452

    @UnionSince452

    3 ай бұрын

    You can find good debates between Ybarra and others, like Father Patrick. There are a few better discussions out there you can find. Even Wagner’s debate with David Erham is quite civil. Take your time and let the Holy Ghost guide you!

  • @novaxdjokovic9592

    @novaxdjokovic9592

    3 ай бұрын

    all complex arguments aside...Matthew 16: 18-19

  • @user-hh8hw2wj9b

    @user-hh8hw2wj9b

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@novaxdjokovic9592 You gotta love it! 😂

  • @Shane_9590
    @Shane_95903 ай бұрын

    This is my first time watching this channel, and this clip was great. I couldn’t agree more. I needed this one.

  • 3 ай бұрын

    You should read russia and the universal church by Vladimir Soloviev. Dude was basically a prophet when it came to the orthodox church. He predicted a future break between the russian and the greek churches.

  • @harleymann2086

    @harleymann2086

    3 ай бұрын

    I love KZread…I hate KZread. I hope you get this message. It was suggested by a commentator for me to buy this very book. I did! It is sitting under my bed to read for almost a year. This has got to be a great book.

  • @TheEdzy25

    @TheEdzy25

    3 ай бұрын

    One of the best book i've read til this day. Touches so many subjects.

  • @eeroraute281

    @eeroraute281

    3 ай бұрын

    He was a gnostic heretic

  • 3 ай бұрын

    @@eeroraute281 nope he predicted what would happened with the orthodox churches. I don’t know what rites he received in the end.

  • @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    3 ай бұрын

    Soloviev believed in sophiology, which was a Gnostic heresy prominent in Russia at the time, and was also an ecumenist. I do not believe that he was ever formally baptized as a Catholic, though he supported Papal doctrines, but I could be wrong on this point and am open to correction. Note: I edited this comment because I initially said he was a theosophist, which is wrong - theosophy is different from sophiology.

  • @chad_hominem
    @chad_hominemАй бұрын

    EO are basically just the New Covenant Korah's rebellion

  • @dailyDorc
    @dailyDorc3 ай бұрын

    I've never seen these advanced tactics. I thought that they just say the word "economia" as if it was a complete and definitive argument and then you both stare at each other blank faced. The Orthodox, assuming you have no idea what that word means, starts their unsolicited explanation. Meanwhile, you listen and start to wonder if they actually know what it means since it doesn't relate to your point at all

  • @javierduenasjimenez7930

    @javierduenasjimenez7930

    Ай бұрын

    This is copypasta material. I'm going to steal it

  • @letrewiarz
    @letrewiarz3 ай бұрын

    I'm not 100% sold on this, but I honestly think that if some EO apologist convinced me that Catholicism is false, then I would be closer to converting to some traditional form of protestantism rather than going East

  • @Justeelisjust

    @Justeelisjust

    3 ай бұрын

    Same. I'd re-interpret Peter being the rock the protestant way and claim it means the church built on the faith Peter professed. In that case, the gates of Hell not prevailing against it would be interpreted as the faithful christianity (in general way) not dying out before the Second Coming. The biggest problem is the apostolic succession though

  • @rass4609

    @rass4609

    3 ай бұрын

    I would probably become Anglican or something like that

  • @harleymann2086

    @harleymann2086

    3 ай бұрын

    No EO can convert me to their position because that would mean a bigger question: who will be the Voice of God to direct the Church from age to age? The Orthodox have no hope to do that as there are too many differences with many teachings and they are too busy calling each other heretics. I may enter some religious community but like the Apostle Paul, I would say, “Let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die”

  • @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@harleymann2086 The Voice of God is the Tradition of the Church. And we Eastern Orthodox are unified in our teaching. There are some debates regarding certain issues that plague us today, but that does not compromise the unity of the Church or the established nature of its doctrine. ​

  • @harleymann2086

    @harleymann2086

    3 ай бұрын

    @@tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau Respectfully, I see BIG issues with Orthodoxy. The biggest problem that with baptism. Please don’t feel like you must answer any one of these, but … 1. Some Orthodox Churches require protestants/Catholics to be re-baptised. Some Orthodox Churches require protestants/Catholics to not be re-baptised; chrismation fills what is lacking in the baptism. There Orthodox priests, whom the monks of Mount Atmos will not offer communion because they were crismated and not baptized the way the Monks of My. Atmos prefer. 2. Some Orthodox Churches require Eastern Catholics to be re-chrismated. Some Orthodox Churches do not require Eastern Catholics to be re-chrismated. 3. The Orthodox Church cannot agree upon a Canon of Scripture - nor does there appear to be a means of infallibly defining one. Some regard the Apocrypha as Scripture. Others reject the Apocrypha. Protopresbyter Michael Pomazansky’s book Dogmatic Orthodox Theology says, "The “non-canonical” books of the Old Testament are: Tobit, Judith, The Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus or the Wisdom of Joshua the Son of Sirach, Baruch, Three Books of Maccabees, the Epistle of Jeremiah, Psalm 151, and the additions to the book of Esther, of 2 Chronicles (The Prayer of Manassah), and Daniel (The Song of the Three Youths, Susanna, and Bel and the Dragon).) The Church accept these latter books also as useful and instructive and in antiquity assigned them for instructive reading not only in homes but also in churches, which is why they have been called “ecclesiastical.” The Church includes these books in a single volume of the Bible together with the canonical books. " 4. Some Orthodox Churches allow some forms of contraception.

  • @Rome_77
    @Rome_773 ай бұрын

    Where did you buy that bloody crucifix?

  • @Catholic_KnightII

    @Catholic_KnightII

    3 ай бұрын

    ?

  • @Seanain_O_hEarchai

    @Seanain_O_hEarchai

    3 ай бұрын

    @@Catholic_KnightII there is a crucifix on the wall with the Lord covered in blood, it looks amazing.

  • @dianekamer8341

    @dianekamer8341

    3 ай бұрын

    @@Seanain_O_hEarchai I think it's called the Passion Crucifix. I think it's available on Amazon.

  • @VincentDaly-cp6yq

    @VincentDaly-cp6yq

    3 ай бұрын

    @@Seanain_O_hEarchaididn’t even notice it it does look amazing now I need one 😂

  • @user-vv1do1wg1j
    @user-vv1do1wg1j2 ай бұрын

    "it would be so bad if orthobros had to debate this" okay, organize that then? own the orthobros

  • @johnsayre2038
    @johnsayre20383 ай бұрын

    "On". Ahhh yes, I hear the Maryland in that pronunciation. We can't hide it.

  • @MilitantThomist

    @MilitantThomist

    3 ай бұрын

    WE LOVE MARYLAND

  • @S.LouisIX

    @S.LouisIX

    15 күн бұрын

    @@MilitantThomist bro you’re in maryland? gotta go to church together sometime ❤

  • @dianekamer8341
    @dianekamer83413 ай бұрын

    And...I see that the Orthobros have shown up. LOL!

  • @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    3 ай бұрын

    Yup! We're here.

  • @dianekamer8341

    @dianekamer8341

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau Don't you have anything better to do?

  • @user-hh8hw2wj9b

    @user-hh8hw2wj9b

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@dianekamer8341 No they don't

  • @HellenicPapist

    @HellenicPapist

    3 ай бұрын

    That name doesn’t even fit on my phone screen 😂​@@tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

  • @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@HellenicPapist Yeah, it's the most autistic username I've ever made.

  • @JW_______
    @JW_______3 ай бұрын

    Wait....did you provide reasons for saying that? I didn't hear any, maybe I missed it?

  • @dianekamer8341
    @dianekamer83413 ай бұрын

    Excellent. Thanks.

  • @feliped2443
    @feliped2443Ай бұрын

    6:10 fire analysis tbf

  • @jakajakos
    @jakajakos3 ай бұрын

    Spot on. They are ridiculous

  • @jackneals5585
    @jackneals55853 ай бұрын

    Memento Mori

  • @huey7437
    @huey74373 ай бұрын

    So, cope for not "smoking EO" in your debates... The Catholic position has specific and unique authority claims over EO and protestants... you're damn right you have to defend them. why is it "unfair" to defend 😵‍💫

  • @hayeshopper8998

    @hayeshopper8998

    Ай бұрын

    Exactly. Extreme claims require extreme proofs. Burden of proof rests of Catholics.

  • @BMC867
    @BMC8673 ай бұрын

    Because they thought it was worthless to embrace the true knowledge of God, God gave them over to a worthless mindset.

  • @Theparishioner_
    @Theparishioner_2 ай бұрын

    If I hear another orthobro say “paradigm” I’ll lose it

  • @danvankouwenberg7234
    @danvankouwenberg7234Ай бұрын

    I am impressed to see men your age who have so much knowledge about this stuff. I think this take makes so much sense. You know what else makes sense? The Papacy. Good enough for me. Matthew 16:18-19. I think the Catholic apologists are the best because they're on the defense all the time, but sometimes you just have to have faith in the Lord and his one true Church. Love the channel! God bless you all.

  • @BCATO
    @BCATO3 ай бұрын

    There is no orthodoxy outside communion with the 1st see

  • @justsomeguywithoutamustach3rd

    @justsomeguywithoutamustach3rd

    3 ай бұрын

    Yeah, the EO are in communion with Antioch I don’t know why you commented that

  • @marvalice3455

    @marvalice3455

    3 ай бұрын

    @@justsomeguywithoutamustach3rd why did God allow Antioch to fall to the Muslims but not Rome? The only reason I can see is so that you can convert the Muhammadans. Get on that, and maybe I'll take you seriously.

  • @justsomeguywithoutamustach3rd

    @justsomeguywithoutamustach3rd

    3 ай бұрын

    @@marvalice3455 Rome fell 1st to the Visigoths, so if anything, why did God allow Rome to fall but didn’t allow Constantinople, Alexandria and Jerusalem, the fall until much later

  • @marvalice3455

    @marvalice3455

    3 ай бұрын

    @@justsomeguywithoutamustach3rd so that we would convert the Visigoths. Next question.

  • @justsomeguywithoutamustach3rd

    @justsomeguywithoutamustach3rd

    3 ай бұрын

    @@marvalice3455 according to Pope Benedict it wasn’t the Catholic Church. It was the orthodox church who converted the Visigoths. so nice try

  • @mcnicholas3
    @mcnicholas34 күн бұрын

    I'll bet Ubi Petrus would absolutely take up that Erick Ybarra debate on EO Ecclesiology. Set it up!

  • @gerry30
    @gerry30Ай бұрын

    Someone want unravel this word salad from Jay Dyer? This is Jay's "strong argument' after he falsifies a quote claiming it is contained in the Pius XI encyclical "Mortalium Animos." He throws the caller off through deception and interrupts the caller frequently as he tries to unravel the falsehoods which he believes are errors of Jay. Caller: Yea, so that’s that argument is is is similar to the arguments that the sedevacantists have against… Jay: So? That’s a fallacy. The fact that the argument comes from that person has nothing to do with whether it’s true or false. Caller: No No I’m just describing… Jay: We’re we’re all aware of that. Okay Caller: Yea.. I would say that if there was a teaching that was magisterially…there’s different levels…I don’t know how much you understand Jay: I I understand, I bet I understand it more than you do. Caller: Well, maybe you do. I understand that there are different levels of authority in different kinds of documents…. Jay: That’s correct… Caller: ..and different kinds of statements So, an encyclical teaching, Mortalium Animos is a high level magisterial teaching. So if you are referring to an ecumenical movement or an action like like uh John Paul II, Assisi… Jay : Hmmm mmm Caller: or are you talking about… Jay: It won’t matter becau..and it won’t even matter of the status of that document because the status of the document is irrelevant to whether the actions of the Pope reflect actions that are contrary to Canon Law and constitute actions of apostasy. So, if it’s always considered in Catholic theology and in moral theology that certain actions display an inner state of apostasy the magisterial status of Mortalium Animos which by the way, I think you would could easily argue is uh ordinary magisterium at the least perhaps universal ordinary magisterium should be protected by the charism of Peter, correct? End of transcription. " I bet I understand it more than you do." 🤣 The embarrassing word salad he throws out at the end is utterly ridiculous. He's literally going for the kitchen sink using anything he thinks sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

  • @nit2266

    @nit2266

    29 күн бұрын

    i think what he was trying to say is "if the popes actions go against the Churchs rules then it doesnt matter what kind of document it is"

  • @gerry30

    @gerry30

    29 күн бұрын

    @@nit2266 Well, more likely he was just making things up like he invented the quote from Mortalium Animos. And he falsified the quotes from Lumen Gentium and Nostra Aetate. He deliberately leaves out the part where the documents states that it is the Muslims that believe they are linked to Abraham and it is the Muslims that "profess" to share the faith of Abraham. Further his problem is claiming that Catholic teaching indicates an inner state of apostasy, I'd like to see a reference since what popped into my mind was the quote from St. Pius X in condemning the Modernists. "Though they express astonishment themselves, no one can justly be surprised that We number such men among the enemies of the Church, ***if, leaving out of consideration the internal disposition of soul, of which God alone is the judge, ****he is acquainted with their tenets, their manner of speech, their conduct." Why he brings up "Canon Law" is irrational since there are two sets of codes of Canon Law, one for the Eastern Catholics and one for the Latin Church. And the Pope is the authority above all Canon Law of the Church. Juridically he's not subject to it. And his claim that Mortalium Animos is ordinary magisterium or universal ordinary magisterium and should be protected by the charism of Peter is conveniently ignoring the fact that the document is about a specific phenomena of Pan-Christian assemblies in which doctrine is subordinated to social and political goals. So, being a temporal series of events it refers to, it falls under the "authentic" magisterium and is not a matter of universal doctrine or morals. Furthermore the language itself indicates that the Church has never "permitted" Catholics to join assemblies of non-Catholics. That doesn't rule out the Church permitting Catholics and non-Catholics to assemble under events implemented by the Catholic Church. Had it been infallible it would state that the Church cannot ever permit Catholics to join assemblies with non-Catholics.

  • @Jerm1453
    @Jerm14533 ай бұрын

    How would you respond to the Alexandrian Document?

  • @Corpoise0974

    @Corpoise0974

    3 ай бұрын

    What document?

  • @pero33403

    @pero33403

    3 ай бұрын

    @@Corpoise0974 SYNODALITY AND PRIMACY IN THE SECOND MILLENNIUM AND TODAY, Alexandria, 7 June 2023

  • @dianekamer8341

    @dianekamer8341

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@pero33403 Not official magisterial teaching. The Vatican commissions these goofy commission things all the time. They carry zero magisterial weight.

  • @pero33403

    @pero33403

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@dianekamer8341 The same way the Vatican commissioned other goofy documents....like forged documents?? the Donation of Constantine, pseudo-Isidore or pseudo Symmachian? I personally don't care.

  • @novaxdjokovic9592

    @novaxdjokovic9592

    3 ай бұрын

    @@pero33403 You seem like the exact type of person who lets emotions get in the way of Truth. A very common thing I've noticed with orthobros

  • @dynamic9016
    @dynamic901618 күн бұрын

    Thanks much for this video.

  • @SpokenThroughLeo
    @SpokenThroughLeo3 ай бұрын

    EO btfo comments cry

  • @bottomoftherabbithole
    @bottomoftherabbithole3 ай бұрын

    This is such a goofy and shallow generalizaton (the whole bit about angsty anti-catholic protestant baggage). Basically on par with "which orthodox church???" response quality. Of course falsifying VI *while presupposing* that the ecclesiology of the first millennium Church contradicts Orthodox ecclesiology would render both paradigms false. But like...only if you presuppose that. Why would you assume we all accept that premise? Just because you think Erick makes a compelling argument? I'm genuinely confused.

  • @MilitantThomist

    @MilitantThomist

    3 ай бұрын

    Small minds cannot understand examples.

  • @bottomoftherabbithole

    @bottomoftherabbithole

    3 ай бұрын

    ​​​@@MilitantThomistthe substance of your entire video was centered around refuting the argument of Orthodox apologists who claim that "if VI is falsified, Orthodoxy is true". Yet the argument you presented asserted that the falsification of VI would essentially result in the falsification of Christianity (as you personally don't find any alternative church's ecclesiology reconcilable with the first millennium witness). This was your whole point. I'm simply pointing out that your climactic argument here *presupposes* that the ecclesiology of the 1st millennium church contradicts Orthodox ecclesiology. ...yet no serious Orthodox apologist would accept that premise. Neither is it a shock or surprise to us that a RC apologist would accept this presupposition. So really, this rebuttal and it's necessary conclusion would only be relevant/applicable to a convinced Roman Catholic who accepts Erick's argument that the ecclesiology of the 1st millennium Church is irreconcilable with Orthodox ecclesiology. For everyone else, this just brings us back to square 1 and highlights the heart of the entire debate. So I'm not sure what you think is so powerful here. I'm not really sure what you think this accomplishes at all actually. Is this what top tier RC apologetics looks like?

  • @Swampfox.

    @Swampfox.

    3 ай бұрын

    Which "Orthodox" church btw? I think HOCNA is the true episcopacy.

  • @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    @tradorthobrodyermanduginpageau

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@Swampfox. There's only one Orthodox Church. HOCNA were schismatics.

  • @tymon1928

    @tymon1928

    3 ай бұрын

    @@bottomoftherabbithole yes, that's literally top tier RC apologetics

  • @gerry30
    @gerry30Ай бұрын

    It seems when it comes to Lord, there are no coincidences. I only recently started to see your videos and I just saw that Jay Dyer just did a video that is perfect for you to react to, if you're interested. I would love to rebut it but I don't make videos. I'm older and don't have the capabilities. :) He bullied a hapless Catholic teacher brutally. (which shows you the naivete of teachers thinking opposing apologists are of good faith who want to learn something ) And of course he blocked me and all of my posts when I directly called him out lining up the transcript of what he "read" vs the actual text. But you'll see that the highlights of his grab bag of lies is that he... 1) Gives a quote from Mortalium Animos as the basis of his argument. The problem is, the quote isn't in the document. 2) He quotes from Lumen Gentium chapter 3 section on the Moslems. The problem is he falsifies the quote. 3) At the 7 minute mark, he actually claims he's reading directly from Nostra Aetate on the screen. The problem is he again reorders and falsifies what the text says to conform to his false assertion. The whole video is a Russian Doll of errors, falsehoods, lies and deceptions. it's disgusting to watch. The guy is not a good man at all and he's deceiving souls. It's beyond a doubt deliberate lying on his part. . kzread.info/dash/bejne/qaKtxsWalsrIes4.html&lc=UgzoDDM75fEdIc4t_kV4AaABAg.A4nVnFIPbVuA4xJnzU5z3B

  • @Jupiter__001_
    @Jupiter__001_3 ай бұрын

    What would you say about Pope Gregory I's condemnation of the more recent (I guess from around the time of the Schism and onward) Popes' claim to be the "universal bishop"?

  • @namapalsu2364

    @namapalsu2364

    3 ай бұрын

    The condemnation is because the patriarch of Constantinople at the time, John the Faster, used the title "universal bishop" to mean that he is the true bishop (other bishops are not true bishops). This is from Gregory the Great's Registered Letter, book IX, 68 (find it on newadvent): "For if one, as he supposes, is universal bishop, it remains that you are not bishops." From that same letter you'd also read this gem: "though without the authority and consent of the Apostolic See nothing that might be passed would have any force."

  • @dianekamer8341

    @dianekamer8341

    3 ай бұрын

    Do you know how many times that has been answered? 🤦

  • @Jupiter__001_

    @Jupiter__001_

    3 ай бұрын

    @@dianekamer8341 Wow, so I'm not allowed to ask questions because someone else asked it before? Clearly you are opposed to any form of reasoning. What a great witness for the Roman church you are. I came interested to learn of the Papist response, but I received hostility. Nice. The other fellow provided interesting commentary, even if I think it's sort of mental gymnastics. I can now see and understand how he reconciles these tensions in his worldview, and I respect him for that. I do not have much respect for those who behave as you behave.

  • @dianekamer8341

    @dianekamer8341

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@Jupiter__001_ Nobody said you can't ask questions. OTOH there are these things called search engines. 🤷

  • @NicoFTWandMichael

    @NicoFTWandMichael

    3 ай бұрын

    Dear Jupiter, the title of universal bishop has been used both before and after St. Gregory, that is not controversial. Second, Pope Pius IX clearly affirmed that the Pope being the head doesn't change the fact that the episcopate is divinely instituted and that every bishop is a bishop with his rights and duties.

  • @chronic_corpse4638
    @chronic_corpse46383 ай бұрын

    tollhouses man

  • @UnionistInitiative
    @UnionistInitiative3 ай бұрын

    TEOD

  • @GTMancz
    @GTMancz3 ай бұрын

    FWIW I agree, this is the placement of the onus needs to be corrected. That said, the main force behind such arguments seems to be the perceived truth of *some* "Christianity". So, by exclusion, if not the Proddies or Rome, then EO. So, I've been led to believe by some that presenting people with such alternatives as the falsehood of Christianity may not be the best approach. But then, can these people be helped otherwise?

  • @watsonblack7481
    @watsonblack74813 ай бұрын

    Yo why not try a debate on all the Old Testament Theophanies and weather they are created holograms like Star Wars 😂🤓

  • @RepairerOfthebreach-zf5th
    @RepairerOfthebreach-zf5th3 ай бұрын

    The fathers didn't teach the philioque, quite the opposite.. a few did.. the fathers go against florence..

  • @jackneals5585
    @jackneals55853 ай бұрын

    Oh boy...

  • @milt2x
    @milt2x3 ай бұрын

    How is this slimy? If RC is false, what other ancient apostolic church is correct? A bapstist church in Kentucky? Antoich is a succesor of Pter as well btw.

  • @bobskanal

    @bobskanal

    3 ай бұрын

    I guess, he means, that the Orthodox theology has mayor problems, so that isn't has to be wrong. For him Orthodoxy is no alternative.

  • @Brainboxreview

    @Brainboxreview

    3 ай бұрын

    I think the point is trying to make is that it’s easy to attack a position however when the roles are flipped, your position is also easy to attack and has problems.

  • @marvalice3455

    @marvalice3455

    3 ай бұрын

    The point is, that even if Rome is wrong all our objects against the Greeks still stand. And one one party being wrong doesn't make the other party correct

  • @namapalsu2364

    @namapalsu2364

    3 ай бұрын

    If Roman Catholic Church is wrong and the Orthodox Church is wrong, then the true Church could be the Protestant or even the non-denominational or even Islam. The more important point in Wagner video is not only that "if Cath is wrong it doesn't mean Orthodox is right." But the more deeper and important point is, Orthodox can not give us reason why they are right. So, suppose you agree with Orthodox that the roman view of primacy is wrong, when you ask them "what then is the correct view?" They don't have an answer. Because their view is just "anything else but the roman view of primacy." Even now Greek and Russia are fighting over what "primacy" is.

  • @mememe1468

    @mememe1468

    3 ай бұрын

    The oriental orthodox, the old believers, the old catholics , the Armenians, the assyrians. Or, maybe all of them are incorrect .

  • @Gofaw
    @Gofaw2 ай бұрын

    It's good to see a catholic channel that doesn't get all pretentious and high brow with Aquinas stuff

  • @kyoto8911
    @kyoto89113 ай бұрын

    based leiden synopsis is the background

  • @LeviSmail
    @LeviSmailАй бұрын

    I’d rather be Anglican or old catholic than orthodox

  • @Esch-a-ton3
    @Esch-a-ton33 ай бұрын

    I’m Roman catholic, and I have to say, it’s unsettling that this is what our apologetics on the topic amount to. No one can beat Jay dyer, although Ybarra held his own. No one sufficiently handles the attacks on Vatican 1 or 2. And then we have, “ well if we’re wrong, you’re wrong too”

  • @achilles4242

    @achilles4242

    3 ай бұрын

    Jay Dyer's attacks amount to gish-galloping and then interrupting when anyone tries to explain. That's unsettling. All the Orthos can try to do is attack the Papacy because they lose on the theology consistently, especially the Filioque.

  • @brianortiz809

    @brianortiz809

    3 ай бұрын

    "amount to" Yeahhh concern troll

  • @Esch-a-ton3

    @Esch-a-ton3

    3 ай бұрын

    @@brianortiz809 not sure what you mean.

  • @notsparctacus

    @notsparctacus

    3 ай бұрын

    The Unbeatable Dyer conceded to Bro. Peter Dimond without even accepting his debate challenge. ("The Dimonds are meanies")

  • @dianekamer8341

    @dianekamer8341

    3 ай бұрын

    LOL, Ybarra *shellacked* Dyer. 😂 I don't believe you're Catholic. You clearly have at least one foot out the door.

  • @georgeluke6382
    @georgeluke6382Ай бұрын

    3:52 - wouldn't this make the Prots right?

  • @gerry30

    @gerry30

    Ай бұрын

    George! Surprised to see you here. Sorry to interrupt. I don't even know if you got my response to your questions about the Magisterial level of Mortalium Animos. I responded to a comment on the Jay Dyer video from Jay himself and when I pointed out that he gave a quote that wasn't in the text of Mortalium Animos and that he falsified the text of both Lumen Gentium and Nostra Aetate, told him to prove me wrong. He blocked all of my posts. Since I don't make videos, I thought I'd alert some apologists to see if they were interested enough to make a rebuttal video of their own where Jay can't delete them. God bless, man! Thanks for being civil in the discussion over there.

  • @georgeluke6382

    @georgeluke6382

    Ай бұрын

    ⁠hey there! I think I saw the quote- sometimes my YT comments seem to disappear. I looked into Mortalium Aninos, and Lumen Gentium, and saw your comment- the sentiment of a contradiction seemed clear to me when I looked at the exclusivity of the first and the inclusivity relative to expanding Abraham’s family out without the “day of Christ” in Lumen Gentium. I didn’t compare the exact quotes, but the sentiment of exclusivity as the ark of salvation transitioning to an appeal to sharing a common root of faith in Lumen Gentium seemed to me a magisterial development that contradicts the former deposit, and changes the ethics of the faithful. I’m not totally experienced with all the terms, but you’d say all three are magisterial, and dogmatic, correct? Is the argument you’re making that Jay’s misquote undermines his central argument?

  • @gerry30

    @gerry30

    Ай бұрын

    @@georgeluke6382 Hey George, All three are magisterial, but they are not dogmatic. They are on the "authentic" level. Meaning they are statements from the office holders of the teaching authority. In the first place, Jay isn't paraphrasing Mortalium Animos. He says he's quoting Pius XI. The quote isn't in the document. One of the key elements is the use of the phrase the Church has never "permitted" Catholics to attend assemblies of non-Catholics. This means that the Church could hypothetically permit the practice. If it were dogmatic, it would say something like "absolutely forbids and can never allow." But regarding Jay's claim: Later when comparing the exact quotes, you come up with pure deception. Lumen Gentium says, "In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God," Jay deliberately removes the part where it states the "professing" and claims the Catholic Church is stating that the Muslims hold the faith of Abraham. Then he demands that the caller supply him with how the Catholic Church explains how they share the faith of Abraham. And in Nostra Aetate the text is this ( emphasis added by me): 3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in*** linking itself,*** submitted to God. Jay when claiming to read the "actual" text says this: 3. The Church regards with esteem the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful all- powerful, Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who spoke to man; they take pains to submit - to His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in submitting to God. He then asks the caller, "Do you think that Jews and Catholics and Muslims have the same faith as Abraham?" Notice that Jay removes any wording that indicates that the documents are describing what the Moslems claim about themselves and instead implied that he's reading what the Catholic Church teaches about Islam as if it validates the opinion. The proper question is "Do you think the Muslims believe they have the same faith as Abraham? " So, yes the real text undermines Jay's claims which is why he had to falsify the quotes.

  • @novaxdjokovic9592
    @novaxdjokovic95923 ай бұрын

    Orthodoxy is wrong. Took me years to realize that

  • @charlesnunno8377
    @charlesnunno837716 күн бұрын

    Don't all Christians all and all Apocalyptic Revealed Creeds play these slimey tactics?

  • @TNFLHT
    @TNFLHT3 ай бұрын

    Like him or hate him Jay Dyer literally does lives all the time that are basically three hour AMA. He often times even begs someone to disagree with him. If you feel so strongly about your statements call in and hit him with your best shot. Thing is most people who aren't even Orthodox would agree Jay is yet to lose a debate.

  • @achilles4242

    @achilles4242

    3 ай бұрын

    I mean Jay clearly lost to Astro. Guy forfeited and freaked out.

  • @TNFLHT

    @TNFLHT

    3 ай бұрын

    @@achilles4242 Jay pointed out a huge inconsistency in Astro's thinking and instead of addressing the problem Astro just continued to restate the thomist position. Jay called him on it countless times and asked him to address the problem not restate they already know and agreed upon position of thomism. Jay ended this debate not unlike many others he does in his lives when people attempt to justify their argument with circular reasoning.

  • @achilles4242

    @achilles4242

    3 ай бұрын

    @@TNFLHT Jay didn’t understand the distinction between eminent and transient acts in that case. He could have, if he let Astro finish lol. What debate were you watching?

  • @TNFLHT

    @TNFLHT

    3 ай бұрын

    @@achilles4242 @achilles4242 I don't believe Jay didn't understand, I would concede he should have let Astro finish instead of immediately challenging his point. Maybe if he did Astro would have provided a better explanation but as I remember it when Jay confronted Astro he just kept adding distinctions to his argument then a bit of gaslighting occurred and Jay peaced out. I also seem to remember Jay talking to someone off screen saying he was almost done and had to go, so I don't think the abrupt close of the conversation was necessarily all a rage quit. Admittedly this talk was a while ago I would need to go back and listen to it again.

  • @newglof9558

    @newglof9558

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@TNFLHT​that's not what happened. A commenter broke down the debate beautifully in Allen Ruhl's comment section if you want to check it out. Jay lost that one and lost with Ybarra too.

  • @lovefilledhearts
    @lovefilledhearts3 ай бұрын

    Friend, what is the oldest systematical theological work of Church?

  • @MilitantThomist

    @MilitantThomist

    3 ай бұрын

    Probably Origen’s On Principles

  • @lovefilledhearts

    @lovefilledhearts

    3 ай бұрын

    @@MilitantThomist An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by John of Damascus. Almost 400 years before the great schism. Highly recommending to read it. Compare with Catholic theology, see if it's Orthodox. Blessings.

  • @Corpoise0974
    @Corpoise09743 ай бұрын

    Both are wrong, im so glad i chose OO. May the mercies of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ be with you.

  • @DANtheMANofSIPA

    @DANtheMANofSIPA

    3 ай бұрын

    Do you think there is a big difference between EO and OO. Whenever I talk to Orientals they say they are the same as us EO

  • @Corpoise0974

    @Corpoise0974

    3 ай бұрын

    @@DANtheMANofSIPA The OO theology is more Augustinian than EO. We reject the essence energies real distinction, and our view of theosis is different since sanctifying grace is viewed as created in OO.

  • @xabraxasx
    @xabraxasx18 күн бұрын

    Convert to Orthodoxy

  • @DoIoannToKnow
    @DoIoannToKnow3 ай бұрын

    Jay has a public invite to debate him every week - you apparently have advantageous insight on how to turn the table so why not do it? Go for it

  • @dianekamer8341

    @dianekamer8341

    3 ай бұрын

    The "Debate Me, Bro" Dyerites have entered the chat. 🤣

  • @newglof9558

    @newglof9558

    3 ай бұрын

    Jay has run from Christian in the past

  • @DoIoannToKnow

    @DoIoannToKnow

    3 ай бұрын

    @@dianekamer8341 the "my points are true, just don't ask me to back them up in live dialogue" crew is endemic

  • @DoIoannToKnow

    @DoIoannToKnow

    3 ай бұрын

    @@newglof9558 name them

  • @novaxdjokovic9592

    @novaxdjokovic9592

    3 ай бұрын

    @@DoIoannToKnow Jay clearly has his volume higher than the callers and mutes anyone who comes close to poking holes in his arguments. It's a horrible setting for a legitimate Catholic/ortho debate and you know that

  • @heavybar3850
    @heavybar38503 ай бұрын

    You should try and debate Jay Dyer on one the orthodox doctrines. That would be a great debate.

  • @jackneals5585

    @jackneals5585

    3 ай бұрын

    Jay will not debate Christian... lol

  • @heavybar3850

    @heavybar3850

    3 ай бұрын

    @@jackneals5585 How do you know that

  • @DoIoannToKnow

    @DoIoannToKnow

    3 ай бұрын

    @@jackneals5585Jay has a public invitation for anyone to debate him almost every week. No one is barred from entering - everyone is invited

  • @dianekamer8341

    @dianekamer8341

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@DoIoannToKnow "Debate me, bro." 🤣🤣🤣

  • @jackneals5585

    @jackneals5585

    3 ай бұрын

    @@DoIoannToKnow lol Christian has entered the chat before.

  • @zzzzppppooooo
    @zzzzppppoooooАй бұрын

    Do you have an example of jay dyer claiming that "since catholicism false, therefor EO true" ? I have never heard him make that argument

  • @Totustuus-gu9do
    @Totustuus-gu9do3 ай бұрын

    Isnt this also true for what protestants do?

  • @SimpleAmadeus
    @SimpleAmadeus2 ай бұрын

    The way I see it, there was One Church of Christ since the beginning, and after a 1000 years there was a split. Only one side of the split could be right, and my conclusion is that it was not Roman-Catholicism. I will not go too deeply into my reasons, but the core of it is that Roman Catholicism changed the faith, at an ever increasing pace, while Eastern Orthodoxy kept the original faith. Since there is no third candidate in this split, that does sufficiently show that Eastern Orthodoxy remains as the True Church. Unless you want to argue that an earlier offshoot like Arianism or Islam was the True Church all along, I suppose. Of course, my starting assumption is that Christ did start His Church, and that She has never died, and never will. If we assume that the Church can die and then be re-established 1000 years later, then it's Protestantism all the way, I suppose. But I reject that idea, because God is almighty and He promised to maintain His Church forever. At least that's how I see it. I'm not a scholar. I'm a simple man, working by simple concepts that I understand. My most important principle is "Truth does not change", and of every religion in the world, Eastern Orthodoxy seems to be the only one that agrees with this principle. Everyone, everyone else keeps changing their story.

  • @MisterDevel
    @MisterDevel2 ай бұрын

    They're mostly just a kind of puritan.

  • @PopeVick
    @PopeVick3 ай бұрын

    🧑🏻‍🍳

  • @pero33403
    @pero334033 ай бұрын

    I am an ex Catholic from Croatia. The fact that Vatican signed the Reichskonkordat with Nazi Germany and helped many of the Nazis to escape via ratlines and that the Catholic Church here is full of people who are racist and crypto Nazis made me switch to the Orthodox side. There is nothing catholic in the "Catholic Church" with that kind of attitude of its parishioners.

  • @ComputingTheSoul

    @ComputingTheSoul

    3 ай бұрын

    So are you going to say that Sergius wasn't the real Patriarch because he essentially signed a concordat with Stalin? As for Crypto Nazis in the Catholic Church, are you seriously going to pretend to me right now that the massive surge in Orthodox membership recently isn't coming from the dissident right?

  • @jackneals5585

    @jackneals5585

    3 ай бұрын

    Right... So the Orthodox church cozying up with atheistic Communists in the past never happened? This is one of the most ridiculous reasons to leave a particular church I think I have ever heard. By this logic you couldn't be a member of ANY apostolic church because a simple reading of church history will reveal plenty of instances of bad and or corrupt behavior by men. Lastly, the people you speak of are not Nazis lol those are just typical Catholic Croats who take pride in their nationality and Catholic culture. Nothing out of the ordinary there... One more thing... MANY Croatians fought in the Wehrmacht during The Second World War so why is this a surprise at all? Croats have a good history with Germany. That's all. It's really getting old hearing people constantly accusing others of being racist Nazis. That line is so dried up at this point it's not even funny.

  • @novaxdjokovic9592

    @novaxdjokovic9592

    3 ай бұрын

    I don't think you really understand what WW2 was if you're making a comment like that

  • @jackneals5585

    @jackneals5585

    3 ай бұрын

    ​@@novaxdjokovic9592 1000% agree. I wrote a big response to his comment but it seems to have been deleted...

  • @mojejaje2073

    @mojejaje2073

    2 ай бұрын

    Za dom spremni. Živio Ante Pavelić

  • @HilareBelloc
    @HilareBellocАй бұрын

    The orthodox apologetics comolex lol

  • @thissaintme
    @thissaintme3 ай бұрын

    8 mins

  • @notsparctacus
    @notsparctacus3 ай бұрын

    Why is Dyer still considered an Orthodox apologist when he left Orthodoxy long ago?

  • @spikestoyou

    @spikestoyou

    3 ай бұрын

    What

  • @sillysyriac8925

    @sillysyriac8925

    3 ай бұрын

    Dyer is still Orthodox, genius.

  • @notsparctacus

    @notsparctacus

    3 ай бұрын

    @@sillysyriac8925 Nope. He "discovered" his jewish ancestry and practices Qabbala

  • @newglof9558

    @newglof9558

    3 ай бұрын

    Jay's five-year-fiance is Wiccan

  • @andrejuthe

    @andrejuthe

    3 ай бұрын

    @@notsparctacus Evidence?

  • @nkoppa5332
    @nkoppa53323 ай бұрын

    how is the papacy an issue you can put off as a catholic

  • @rass4609

    @rass4609

    3 ай бұрын

    His expertise is Filioque

  • @MilitantThomist

    @MilitantThomist

    3 ай бұрын

    Because it's not as important as other issues.

  • @j.johnson2190

    @j.johnson2190

    3 ай бұрын

    The papacy as a topic of expertise, not as the general doctrine in apologetics. The papacy itself can be an intricate topic but in apologetics is mostly reducible to other issues, such as Church authority, Apostolic succession or Church-as-forma. That is not the same as the question of infallibility.

  • @GhostofFranky

    @GhostofFranky

    3 ай бұрын

    I dOnT hAvE to KnOw aBoUt tHe PoPe to Be a RoMaN CaThOliC!

  • @achilles4242

    @achilles4242

    3 ай бұрын

    Well we know Apostolic Succession is true so low-Church Protestantism and restoration churches (LDS, JWs, etc.) are false. We know that Christ has two natures so the Oriental Orthodox Church is false. We know that the Filioque is true so we know that the Eastern Orthodox Church is false. You don't even really need a positive view of the papacy. Edited for grammar. Also, I forgot anything against the High-Church Protestants, stealth Anglicanism wins. Edit again: I'm not Anglican for the record, your honor.

  • @cardboardcapeii4286
    @cardboardcapeii42863 ай бұрын

    Only time people convert to orthodoxy is when there’s sin in the Catholic Church

  • @C1tr00z
    @C1tr00z3 ай бұрын

    Is this damage control, when you can’t defect RC and blaming EO apologists for that?

  • @caratacus6204
    @caratacus62042 ай бұрын

    Odium theologicum when Caths and Orthos fight like cats in a bag. You are all a little bit wrong and a little bit right, you are part of the True Church, but neither are fully the True Church.

  • @charlesnunno8377
    @charlesnunno837716 күн бұрын

    Why is saying "You are both wrong" and "Both screwed" such a horrible thing to say? This was always my intiutive position when observing Christians and how it obstructed my life while priviling the least worty who could not even understand much less PAY FOR your creed. I paid. And was cast into the gutter. And when I said, "I think you are simply all wrong" I was treated like the crazy one. I don't think so.....the more I understand the differences that you argue on, at 36, the more I gradually return to my original intuition at 15, when I was cast into the gutter. This is not about my understanding or my morality. ( I was always more moral than you people, despite the sneers and jeers ) Yes, you are both wrong.

  • @Orthodoxology
    @Orthodoxology3 ай бұрын

    You’re reaching a bit here bro

  • @matthewoburke7202

    @matthewoburke7202

    3 ай бұрын

    No he isn't. He's exactly right. This is because EO deny that the Papacy has a particular Petrine primacy by divine institution, and the Church Fathers believed that, no question about it.

  • @Orthodoxology

    @Orthodoxology

    2 ай бұрын

    @@matthewoburke7202 nobody denies primacy..

  • @matthewoburke7202

    @matthewoburke7202

    2 ай бұрын

    @@Orthodoxology No, but you do deny the primacy by divine institution. If you didn't, then you wouldn't think that the Roman primacy is defectible. It seems to me that the Orthodox notion of Papal primacy is that it held a merely honorary primacy purely circumstantially.

  • @javierduenasjimenez7930

    @javierduenasjimenez7930

    Ай бұрын

    ​@@matthewoburke7202 Honorary understood in today's terms, rather than when the term was used by both East and West

  • @matthewoburke7202

    @matthewoburke7202

    Ай бұрын

    @@javierduenasjimenez7930 Not sure what you mean, do you mean that by today's terms it was merely honorary?

  • @XiHamORTHOCN
    @XiHamORTHOCN23 күн бұрын

    Cope

  • @JW_______
    @JW_______3 ай бұрын

    The strongest voices for the papacy in the early church were all popes. Talk about having a motivation to advance a doctrine that directly benefits their interests.

  • @RomanusVII

    @RomanusVII

    3 ай бұрын

    Very bold to accuse holy men of selfish and vainglorious behavior

  • @JW_______

    @JW_______

    3 ай бұрын

    @RomanusVII one sees it throughout church history, so it's not such a hot take.

  • @jackneals5585

    @jackneals5585

    3 ай бұрын

    Don't you mean Eastern Orthodoxy Saints? Lol

  • @JW_______

    @JW_______

    3 ай бұрын

    @jackneals5585 lol all you want. I believe that saints are very much capable of committing error in their lifetimes and that some of these men were likely not saints

  • @wauliepalnuts6134
    @wauliepalnuts61343 ай бұрын

    To be fair, the Roman Catholic church does all the work for us. We don't have to do much to prove that it's heretical.

  • @universalflamethrower6342

    @universalflamethrower6342

    3 ай бұрын

    Jesus conquered Rome from the cross. Guess where he left his Rock.

  • @wauliepalnuts6134

    @wauliepalnuts6134

    3 ай бұрын

    @@universalflamethrower6342 Thank you for proving my point and doing all the work for us. Roman Catholics misinterpret Matthew 17-18 by willfully omitting that verses that precede it, namely Matthew 13-16 where we see the true rock: Peter's statement of faith of Jesus being "the Christ, the Son of the living God". The gates of Hades have not prevailed against this faith and Jesus has built His church on it. Unfortunately for Roman Catholics, the gates of Hades has prevailed against their church with its countless heresies and culture of pederasty. Not to mention the Roman Catholic church being the first protestant church that lead to the thousands of other heretical protestant churches. Plus, Peter founded the church in Antioch, not Rome. There were already Christians in Rome when Peter and Paul arrived, as evident from the Paul's Epistle to the Romans. Further, no apostle was ever bishop. They consecrated bishops. Rome's first bishop was Linus, whom was consecrated by Paul.

  • @universalflamethrower6342

    @universalflamethrower6342

    3 ай бұрын

    @@wauliepalnuts6134 yes your pride makes you a very good Christian. NOT

  • @wauliepalnuts6134

    @wauliepalnuts6134

    3 ай бұрын

    @@universalflamethrower6342 If I were prideful, I would boast that my bishop is the center of my church, has supremacy over all, and never makes a mistake.

  • @universalflamethrower6342

    @universalflamethrower6342

    3 ай бұрын

    @@wauliepalnuts6134 dude, you baically commit the same sin as Satan, no humbleness in your posts whatsoever. If you do not belief me. Try take a step back from your own opinions. I'll wait...

  • @genericname7020
    @genericname702028 күн бұрын

    I think its just a fad

  • @Sosarchives
    @Sosarchives3 ай бұрын

    muslims do this too

  • @AimiliosChristidis
    @AimiliosChristidis3 ай бұрын

    You have our brother Kyle and Dyer in the thumbnail and yet you claim that the only apologetics against catholicism is the 6:10-6:35. Thats rather a frustated and emotional response. I encourage everyone unfamiliar with the contra catholicism arguments to look for himself critically.

  • @gerry30

    @gerry30

    Ай бұрын

    Just got off a thread with Jay Dyer bullying a Catholic teacher. He quoted from an encyclical that didn't contain the quote and then falsified two quotes from Vatican II and literally lied. His whole argument was lies in the demonstrable way. No excuse is possible. He could be functionally illiterate and not give 3 near perfect "errors." Go the 7 minute mark of his video and watch him read from Nostra Aetate. But look up the document and read along with him. Then you'll see how he butchers the passage, omits key text and totally misrepresents what is actually written. Instead of being a man and admitting his failure, he's simply carrying on deleting the people that have caught onto his deception. That's a craven character. "Catholic Professor's Meltdown." kzread.info/dash/bejne/qaKtxsWalsrIes4.html&lc=UgzoDDM75fEdIc4t_kV4AaABAg.A4nVnFIPbVuA4xJnzU5z3B

  • @dominikdurkovsky8318

    @dominikdurkovsky8318

    Ай бұрын

    ​@@gerry30 just got off from watching and reading that, and he didn't butcher it at all. If you were bluffing and relying on me to not see it for myself, then congrats on the strategy, but you messed up. Next time you make accusations, make sure to do it properly.

  • @gerry30

    @gerry30

    Ай бұрын

    @@dominikdurkovsky8318 That's weak. You didn't demonstrate any indication that you did anything at all. I don't bluff. It's against my religion. I was actually hoping you would honestly assess the facts. But you're playing games. And let's stick with "this time" and not the "next time" since I'm calling you out on this. I've got the receipts and I'll walk you through it. We'll see if you can disprove anything I say or whether you scamper away like little chicken Dyer. Go back to the 7 minute mark on the video and watch him claim to read what he says is the "actual" text. In Nostra Aetate the actual text is this: ( emphasis added by me so Jay's deception isn't missed ): "3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in*** linking itself,*** submitted to God. " Jay, when claiming to read the "actual" text says this: "The Church regards with esteem the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful all- powerful, Creator of heaven and earth, who spoke to man; they take pains to submit to His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in submitting to God. He then asks the caller, "Do you think that Jews and Catholics and Muslims have the same faith as Abraham?" Notice that Jay removes any wording that indicates that the documents are describing what the Moslems claim about themselves and instead implies that he's reading what the Catholic Church teaches about Islam as if it validates the opinion. The actual question should be "Do you think the Muslims take pleasure in linking themselves to the faith of Abraham? " That's because he butchered and falsified the real text. You'd have to be functionally illiterate to not see that. He even makes it seem that it's the Muslims submitting to God and not Abraham as the text states. He did the same thing with Lumen Gentium. Search in vain and you'll not find him saying that it's the Muslims that profess to hold the faith of Abraham, but he pretends it's the Catholic Church teaching that they have the faith of Abraham. And you can read Mortalium Animos and you won't find the quote he keeps using. So don't be like lying cowardly "brother" Dyer who doesn't have the integrity to admit his sins of deception. I'll be curious to see if you admit the truth, double down on the gaslighting or go silent like the coward Dyer.

  • @gerry30

    @gerry30

    Ай бұрын

    @@xravenx24fe No, Jay is the deceptive one and for you to believe him is insane. A functional illiterate would get more right than Jay does. You know he's deliberate. I"ll show you why he's blocked my comments. From the video: Jay : Do you want one example that I think is really strong? Caller : Yea Jay: As late as 1928 Mortalium Animos of Pius XI stated that to even have inter-religious ceremonies with other” quote “Christian groups is a surrendering of the gospel and an action of Apostasy. So I can’t believe that uh a few decades later, Vatican II, the affirmation of the ecumenist movement as a movement of the Holy Spirit is now a good thing. That’s a straight up contradiction. " Go find the quote that Jay was "quoting" from Mortalium Animos. It doesn't exist. www.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19280106_mortalium-animos.html So, Jay bases his "strong" argument on a lie. He also makes a BS encapsulation of the encyclical that he obviously hasn't actually read. Jay claims to cite Lumen Gentium Jay poses the question : "What is the hermeneutic of continuity that shows that prior to Nostra Aetate Jews and Muslims have the faith of Abraham in Catholic Theology? " This is what Lumen Gentium really says: But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, PROFESSING TO HOLD THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html Jay: "I quoted you a Council dude!" No he didn't. He's a fraud. Hey! Let's do Nostra Aetate: This is what Jay pretends to be reading right on the screen from the Vatican website. He says he's reading the "actual text." About the 7 minute mark on the video This is what he "reads" off his screen: "The Church regards with esteem - the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful all- powerful, Creator of heaven and earth who has spoke to man; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in submitting to God. " Jay then asks "Do you think the Jews and Catholics and Muslims all have the faith of Abraham?" But the real "actual text shows that Jay did some lying in order to mislead you and impress you. "3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham,WITH WHOM THE FAITH OF ISLAM TAKES PLEASURE IN LINKING ITSELF , submitted to God. Notice how the scumbag deliberately falsifies the text in order to promote his lies? And don't give me any nonsense about "not dealing with Jay's argument. Jay's too much of a pathetic worm to own up to his lies. And he knows he's caught. This is why he hid all of my posts exposing him. @jaydyerlivestreamsabsurdities 2 days ago That’s actually a fallacy. Not surprised RCs don’t know that. @gerry30 2 days ago @jaydyerlivestreamsabsurdities You're wrong. Actually you're wrong about everything. You never quoted anything from Mortaliium Animos. It's not in the document. You falsified the text of Nostra Aetate and you falsified the text of Lumen Gentium. You are a lightweight. You can't make an argument without lying. Prove me wrong. There are numerous other blunders and asinine statements and claims he makes that I can give you as well. He's pathetic. You're a sucker if you trust him. Now, let's see if you've got the morals and integrity to own up to being wrong or if you'll double down or simply go silent like that pathetic lying worm Jay.

  • @gerry30

    @gerry30

    Ай бұрын

    @@xravenx24fe Haven't seen a reply since I posted the actual text of the documents and transcribed word for word how Jay falsified what he called "the actual text." Having trouble reconciling Jay's deception? I've got more of him being flat out wrong in that one video he posted.

  • @PauloftherdMichiganinfantry
    @PauloftherdMichiganinfantry3 ай бұрын

    Nope I give up I am settling if am going to Hell that’s fine I am leaving a becoming pius no reason to fight I got head from a satanist so already going there anyway I don’t need to be right I just have to be not wrong so I give up may the lord have mercy on me and all of us

  • @littlechildinbigworld

    @littlechildinbigworld

    3 ай бұрын

    what's wrong neighbor? 🙁

  • @user-zi7gd9pn3l

    @user-zi7gd9pn3l

    3 ай бұрын

    You good?

  • @DoIoannToKnow

    @DoIoannToKnow

    3 ай бұрын

    what "correct" heterodoxy does to a man:

  • @lambochopo7635

    @lambochopo7635

    2 ай бұрын

    I know it might be a bit tricky to know which denomination is right, but you have to remember that God wants you to do to heaven and that His love for you is infinite.

  • @GhostofFranky
    @GhostofFranky3 ай бұрын

    This dude didnt even know his position and is saying orthodox are slimy? Ive been arguing about the papacy for x amount of time and I finally picked up a book to learn about it. Also ortho bros are slimy 😂😂 the low hanging fruit you gotta go for

  • @MilitantThomist

    @MilitantThomist

    3 ай бұрын

    Small minds cannot understand examples.

  • @GhostofFranky

    @GhostofFranky

    3 ай бұрын

    @@MilitantThomist you said you just picked up the book to learn about the papacy, the very pin upon what your entire religion hinges upon. You thought defending the pope was for normies? You didnt say that? That is the crux of roman catholicism. What does catholicism look like without that doctrine? Its much more influential than the filioque and your first foray into the topic is eric ybarras book?

  • @ToeTag1968
    @ToeTag19683 ай бұрын

    3:00 ding, ding, ding! That's why Catholicsm AND EO are both wrong. You did both depart. Your shared Marian doctrines, and iconography, for the most basic of starters, are doctrines that crept in after the first 400 to 500 years of Christ's church. Reformation isn't about a new thing. It's about bringing you both back to a simpler faith.

  • @palermotrapani9067

    @palermotrapani9067

    3 ай бұрын

    Man, where were protestants in the pre-Nicene Church, You can't even find a Church in most areas North of the Alps at the time of the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. Of the Latin Bishops, 1 Bishop came from SE France just to the other side of the Alps from what is the modern Italian/French Border. There was a Bishop from Iberia (Hosius), from Southern Italy, 1 from Libya, 1 from Dalmatia (modern Croatia/Serbia when it was Latin Rite) and 2 Papal Legates. Where were you protestants. You guys were not even n the picture. Modern 16th century heresy.

  • @ToeTag1968

    @ToeTag1968

    3 ай бұрын

    @@palermotrapani9067 We were part of the catholic church while calling for reformation and return to Christianity before bad doctrine got inserted. We left when it was clear the pope and the councils weren't going to retract their pronouncements. I'm not a Calvinist, but John and the others were part of the Catholic church and were urging the church give up false doctrines but they wouldn't.

  • @palermotrapani9067

    @palermotrapani9067

    3 ай бұрын

    @@ToeTag1968 Well it is likely everyone North of the Alps, as in other regions of the Roman empire pre Nicea were pagan, unless you are of Southern European ancestry along with parts of France, areas of North Africa, the Levant, Anatolia,/Asia Minor and as far east as India since Saint Thomas the Apostle got there. Calvin was from Northern France and was indeed a Catholic Deacon (Luther a Catholic priest). They rebelled against the Catholic Church and hence the movements they founded are defacto not Catholic and not in continuity with the Apostolic Church.

  • @DoIoannToKnow

    @DoIoannToKnow

    3 ай бұрын

    a great way to unify the Eastern and Roman people is by presenting your retarted reformed protestant stuff. Good job

  • @ToeTag1968

    @ToeTag1968

    3 ай бұрын

    @@palermotrapani9067 Catholicism started going off the rails with Mariology, iconography, prayers to dead saints, belief in purgatory, and the papal hierarchy. Those are doctrines that crept their way into the church after approx 400 years and beyond. The church goes too far doctrinally. Get back to basics.

  • @georgeanderson87
    @georgeanderson873 ай бұрын

    wow this is weak

  • @dauntless1377
    @dauntless13773 ай бұрын

    So debate him. Then we can see for ourselves if he really does these debate tactics.

  • @jacob6088
    @jacob60883 ай бұрын

    The Vatican machine runs on slime

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