Sauron, an indescribably old maiar (angelic being), renowned and feared for his kniving and trickery from the first age onwards is unmasked by the equivalent of a google search.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

A Google search 💀💀💀

@TMxtt

Жыл бұрын

Actor who played Sauron reminded me of a character from a Guy Ritchie movie. "Mockney gangsters" was bad enough, but a "mockney dark lord" I just wasn't buying. Hard to imagine the Rings of Power "Sauron" is also this Sauron > kzread.info/dash/bejne/iJ990aigdsu6nNI.html

@esquilax5563

Жыл бұрын

@@TMxtt his accent is far from mockney, but I agree, he seems banally human and not at all demonic

@scambammer6102

Жыл бұрын

The elves already knew there was no king of the southlands. That's why they were patrolling the region. Gladreel = dumbest elf ever.

@mxvega1097

Жыл бұрын

@@scambammer6102 that occurred to me too - if she's spent the last thousand years or more roaming around looking for Sauron, then either it wasn't in the Southlands, or she wasn't asking the right questions and built up no target matrix for her quarry.

The show felt so soulless to me. They literally used my absolute favourite Tolkien quote that I should draw a strong emotional reaction from me (I literally have it tattooed on my body) "the shadow is only a small and passing thing..." and I felt absolutely nothing when it was used in the show because somehow Tolkien's own words felt so out of place and it just came out of nowhere.

@bboyandi82

Жыл бұрын

Same here. They watched the trilogy and repurposed all cool things and just squeezed them somewhere in between.

@scambammer6102

Жыл бұрын

"the show is only a small and passing thing"

@jmilber

Жыл бұрын

God bless J.R.R Tolkien--- that was perhaps one of my favorite parts of reading Lord of the RIngs. When Frodo is in utter despair, Samwell uplifts his spirit with true wisdom. "Frodo: I can't do this, Sam. Sam: I know. It's all wrong. By rights we shouldn't even be here. But we are. It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness, and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end, because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines, it'll shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something. Frodo: What are we holding on to, Sam? Sam: That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo...and it's worth fighting for."

@pwmiles56

Жыл бұрын

@@jmilber Both Jackson and Amazon left out the star which prompts Sam's thought (it's only a thought, not dialogue): "The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach." -- The Land of Shadow. Notice the active verb-forms: smote, returned, pierced. I don't know how a visual medium could portray this feeling, but the show definitely doesn't.

@belegur8108

Жыл бұрын

@@jmilber there are only few rare moments with that much impact on a story... in movies its this, in video games, there is one for my part is equally impactfull. In Dragon Age Inquisition at the end of the Intro, you end up fleeing your starting village with a few refugees, all up in the mountains, with nowhere to go and meager hope and then this song starts to spread through the camp: Shadows fall And hope has fled Steel your heart The dawn will come The night is long And the path is dark Look to the sky For one day soon The dawn will come The Shepherd's lost And his home is far Keep to the stars The dawn will come The night is long And the path is dark Look to the sky For one day soon The dawn will come Bare your blade And raise it high Stand your ground The dawn will come The night is long And the path is dark Look to the sky For one day soon The dawn will come there is also a YT version of Peter Hollens and 500+ online singers...

In the HotD a dying king slowly walked to this throne, struggling to breath and nearly took 5 minutes of air time. It was the most impactful things that I still remember till today and I get teary eyed thinking about. In Rings of Power, a volcano blows up and it was absolutely boring. Nothing eventful ever happened in that show.

@seanposkea

Жыл бұрын

I confess I haven't watched House of D, but I suspect the moment you describe was well acted by both the king and the anxious witnesses. You saw human frailty, fear and compassion. The trouble with most shows today is that they sound like kids playing with action figures, "the volcano blows up in your face and you're dead!" "Nah-ah, hot lava can't hurt me! Nah nah!"

The writing is the major problem here. It felt like a high school theater project at times. I'm honestly shocked someone with so little knowledge about writing and storytelling could get a job like that and not lose it right away

I thought any elf meeting Adar would be full of grief and despair at his corruption. Adar is one of the first elves and his small story arc is tragic. One of the troubles with this show is the lack of detail to Tolkien`s world.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I find galadriels response in that scene completely unsupported in the show. If they were gonna do that they needed to make her way darker before. You’d think ANY elf would be horrified to meet Adar, not angry.

@czypauly07

Жыл бұрын

The characters are devoid of empathy.... If I were close to the writers I'd be seriously worried.

@scambammer6102

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn and get this - she didn't ask Adar for any details about his killing Sauron. She went for the genocidal rant instead. Gladreel = dumbest elf ever.

@OneRedKraken

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn And it's another one of those flip flop moments with her personality you mentioned in your video. The scene before that she stopped Sauron from killing him. And then its Sauron who stops her from killing him. Double flip flop! lol

@FURognar

Жыл бұрын

Yeah the Adar plot thread was pretty much the only interesting storyline the whole season. The mysterious Morgul blade COULD have been interesting but that turned out to be a huge dud

"Why are there no *emotions* in this show? I specifically requested it!" - Jeff Bezos

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

💀💀

@thomasc9036

Жыл бұрын

99% of the time Galadriel either has a dull drug-addicted look or a snarling angry face. Some village extras had more acting "range". Basically, she was an elven version of an orc.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

@@thomasc9036 I mostly noticed the "eye twitching" she did a lot. Did anyone else notice this?

@donkeysunited

Жыл бұрын

@@thomasc9036 I think her angry face was meant to be a precursor to when we see her go terrifying in LotR when Frodo begs her to take the ring. Perhaps the eye twitching was part of that uncontrollable anger, her tempest.

@scambammer6102

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn It was the ash from the "volcano"

The final episode was basically one big mystery box reveal with boxes made out of see-through glass.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I'm baffled by these show runners thinking we NEED mystery boxes. It wasn't done well in WoT, either.

@5quepasa

Жыл бұрын

The showrunners said that this is kind of the point. If you’ve read the books the clues are obvious; if not, it can be a fun little mystery. They throw a bit of misdirection in there, but the point of the stranger is more to demonstrate the power to choose the good than to add an alternate Sauron because, again, it was obvious to any book reader that he was a wizard

The problem for me is the lack of continuity and care. It's like they wanted this cool scene to happen but didn't know how to set it up so they contradict character motivations or things that were previously set up to make it happen.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I've noticed that recently in shows... "the rule of cool". But like... you have to EARN it. If your show is just a bunch of cool things happening it won't work.

@waltwhite8126

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Yeah, for example in HotD the fact that Aemond was the only Targaryen kid that didn't have a dragon, was bullied because of it and was the one that wanted it the most, made the scene of him bonding with Vhagar 10x cooler than if he just bonded without any previous build up.

@danbendix1398

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Written for preteen boys (action with no substance) and teen girls (drama without foundation).

I absolutely agree with everything you said. You explained it perfectly. Another thing that bothered me: There was this scene in the beginning where Galadriel was literally drownling and Sauron/Halbrand was saving her life. He is Sauron. It would have been the perfect opportunity to get rid of the strongest elf. No one knew at that time that she is still in middleearth. Why did he save her? There was never an explanation. They just wanted to make Halbrand look friendly and trustworthy but didnt think of the consequences and the logic.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Ok but this is such a great point.

i think you really nailed the root issue with the show in that it was just bad story telling. i think a lot of ppls issue with the lore changes is that the story telling of the lore was better than the changes they made, so why change it if youre only making it worse

@Michael-tk9ux

Жыл бұрын

It wasn't just bad story telling. The show should have focused on realism instead of making every female character stronger, smarter and braver than the male characters

@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t

Жыл бұрын

@@Michael-tk9ux Well, that's the issue, isn't it? Eowyn isn't stronger than the Witch King, or a more skilled fighter. She and Merry are carried along to the point where they can together defeat him by loyalty, hope and courage. And of course, by courage, it's not a "they're not afraid" thing; they're terrified, because the Witch King just radiates dread, and it's the loyalty and the merest sliver of hope that carries them far enough to strike a blow each.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Oh ABSOLUTELY. Like I didn't want to quibble about lore since I knew they didn't have the rights, but I kept feeling like...but it's done so much better in the book, why are we ignoring that? ESPECIALLY the Halbrand/ring stuff, like that's ten times more interesting in the book! And a lot of that is in the appendices!

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

@@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t Brilliant summary of Eowyn and Merry, and where their courage really lay! Eowyn is a highly skilled fighter, but that's not the most important thing.

Four random kids practicing sword play in House of the Dragon had more weight and emotion than anything in Rings of Power.

@chand911

9 ай бұрын

Random?

That’s my biggest thing - I should be able to go back and watch from the beginning and now catch all the times Halbrand was tricking or manipulating but he wasn’t? So it’s a terrible twist for that alone Great video!

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Like going back and watching that scene where he is sitting alone in a room contemplating his kingship like… what’s the reasoning 😭

@mr_coffee9917

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn no actually he was just thinking about what to do. Should he go or not to Middle Earth

@sieuzice

Жыл бұрын

Subverting expectaaaatioooons..

@andrabook8758

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn dumb, shallow character and story lines...and totally not-Tolkien.

@andrabook8758

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn sauron, the ultimate evil, just exists bc he got turned down for a date...wth? Gandalf can't speak and Nory needs to teach him good and evil. An immortal wise being sent by the force of ultimate good in the universe, is not a bumbling fool. It's not just that they completely rewrote all the characters, they made them moronic too.

Imagine if the first episode had started out after the elves had returned to the undying lands… And they had realized that, having left middle earth, their memories of middle earth were fading. They have decided to commission an addition to their hall of records. And the record keepers were asking Lady Galadriel to recount to them the events as she remembered them. She agrees to help, and admits that her recollection is fading as well, …but that she will do her best to tell the story as it deserves to be told. And so begins the narration for the series. That set up right there solves every single problem they would encounter. It solves not having the rights to the Silmarillion… It justifies time compression… And it justifies any deviation from the lore. And that sporadic narration would come and go whenever something needed to be explained… Or described… Or to help carry the passage of time… Etc. And if that narration had been done by the voice of Cate Blanchett… Boom! It would lend both the credence and the gravitas necessary to certify the production in the minds of all fans. Instant success. Just add seasons.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

OK BUT THIS IS SUCH A GOOD IDEA??? And having Cate Blanchett would give it direct comparison to the narration at the beginning of LOTR?! I'm so sad now why couldn't we get this

@yelsahblah3270

Жыл бұрын

Sadly this wouldn't help the terrible writing and pacing.

@cypsrp7924

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, but you've still got my neighbor's 6-yr old nephew as the lead writer. And as long as the juiceboxes continue to flow we're okay, but as soon as they run out...its a tantrum from hell...and the writing is bad whether he throws a tantrum or downs juiceboxes.

@ecthelion1735

Жыл бұрын

Except Valinor is a land of preservation... memories and such will be 'evergreen' in the Undying Lands.

@leekelly4200

Жыл бұрын

Gee - you almost seem like a real writer!

the "unearned dramatics" part was spot on. not enough people pointed that out.

@KevinUchihaOG

Жыл бұрын

yeah, that was the very first problem i had with the show,

The show had so many chances. I remember my first thoughts in the beginning of the first episode: "Oh, she is searching for Sauron in the north?! So we might see something about the Witch King of Angmar? Yeay!!". And then, she returned back to court and jumped into the sea, visited Numenor and Mordor, but not the North.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I know, a lot of people were assuming Halbrand might turn into the witch king there for a hot minute. The actual result was a lot less interesting

@wookie2222

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I assumed, Halbrand would have some tragic ark where he would become the king of the Haradrim, uniting the southern tribes and then during 4-5 seasons he would stedy and slowly turn to the dark side and support Sauron. -.-

@MM-dm4xj

Жыл бұрын

@@wookie2222 the rings of power werent forged at that point, the witch King did therefore not exist

@skillcapt6427

Жыл бұрын

It would have been much more interesting if she travelled north to find "the witch king" in his fortress thinking he may be Sauron...she finds he is not and leaves him be...only to later learn he become her nemesis's right hand man or wraith. It would link her futile search of the north in episode one to future story lines when he becomes Sauron's ally and by default enemy of Galadriel

The problem with your Galadriel plot idea is that it completely ignores Tolkien's character arch for her (that can't be ignored unless you plan on re-writing LOTR as well). It was her pride and stubbornness that held her in Middle Earth. She wanted to make her own kingdom in Middle Earth where she could rule. Pride kept her exiled in Middle Earth. She FINALLY realized that when the One Ring attempted to seduce her and she saw that her hubris would enslave rather than save Middle Earth. She humbled herself and felt the grace of Manwë return to her and she realized she was welcomed back to Valinor and could diminish into the West. That character arch defines Galadriel. Her rejection of the One Ring is her trial. Not some quasi-affair she had with Sauron/Halbrand back in the day. She wasn't a warrior. She traveled with her husband, and when need arose, used magic (destroying Dol Guldur) rather than swords and armor.

@emorsi

Жыл бұрын

And damn... that is a rich story in itself and awesome story telling at the same time... and it is believable. Why these writer clowns did not use Galadriel as she is supposed to be AND introduced an awesome woman warrior at the same time? They made already characters up so why not use a new woman warrior which is questionable in her descions? I guess they are just lazy and they not really care what Middle-Earth really means as a world.

@swordmonkey6635

Жыл бұрын

@@emorsi Peter Jackson understood Galadriel's backstory and nailed it. He showed that Galadriel was grim as the Fellowship arrived. She'd been in a bad mood for quite a while because she felt the walls of the world closing in around her "kingdom" as Sauron's power grew. In the movie, she didn't smile or put on a good mood before the test at the Mirror. She even got into people's heads and screwed with them, tempting them or showing them "their hearts" and failings (basically acting out her own fears onto others). Almost immediately after she passed the test at the Mirror, she smiled for the first time in the movie and her demeanor lightened because the weight of anxiety and hubris had been lifted off of her. The scene of the gift giving shows a changed Galadriel. She smiles and even laughs and you can see her beauty and grace, whereas when she's first introduced, she looks stiff and haughty. Rings of Power ignores all of this arch conclusion for a sugar rush of fan-fiction.

@emorsi

Жыл бұрын

@@swordmonkey6635 Yeah, and even that I liked Peter Jacksons adaptation it was only a brief moment for Galadriel there. Imagine what a show with a lot more time to develop character arcs could have been if Jacksons had the time for it. Peter Jackson should have made ROP or some writers with a love for the lore and respect for the material. I am pretty sure that Jackson even would have picked another title for the show. Because "Rings of Power" sounds quite lame, like: "wooowww... Rings of POWER, you know POWER... that sounds, you know, wowww... BIG, you know, wooowww...". These kind of titles I would expect from lame fan-boys coming of age or something but not real professionals. And that is the problem here, in this production there were no real professionals and lovers of Tolkien involved. The showrunners were nobodys before and they will be nobodys again.

@swordmonkey6635

Жыл бұрын

​@@emorsi The series should've focused on Numenor with big elven names appearing only when needed for context of the lore/story rather than name recognition. Galadriel is a side character in the Second and Third Age (Tolkien summarized her travels because they were probably not very exciting). She was the most powerful elf in Middle Earth by the Third Age, but she should never be the focus of a series. Numenor offers the writers the PG version of Game of Thrones that they so badly want while focusing on something they can write about that's exciting and a tie into Gondor, Aragorn, Isildur etc. It also brushes up against famous characters and places without focusing on them. Let new fans experience the power and might of Numenor. 7 foot tall men who were the height of mankind. It allows the origin of the Dunadain to make more sense to casual fans.

@emorsi

Жыл бұрын

@@swordmonkey6635 I am pretty sure that would be a good idea where you going at. But... even if Galadriel was only a side character they could have gone here the extra mile and create a lot out of her. Why not? Her character arc in the lore is interesting enough to focus on her, but I have to admit that there are better choices here. What I would have loved is just very different: I would have loved a story with side characters like SMAUG. Why not? Why not go there and give that amazing dragon his origin story? It would have been so darn cool. That one is an intelligent being thus able to plot even political plans or is good for some action scences also. And... Dragons were loved in GOT, so there is another cash cow here to milk.

For me the big problem is I ended up liking only three characters: Durin, Adar, and Sauron. Doubt that was what they were after, but it’s what they achieved. The Sauron plot makes absolutely no sense. Bad Robot loves to rely on mystery boxes and coincidence. At best, that makes things cool in the moment, and then deeply unsatisfying.

@Anthony-pq4vr

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely agree. Those three were the most compelling and, frankly likeable, with Sauron and Adar being even more compelling than Durin in my book. Adar was nearly a great character until they sabotaged him.

@KevinUchihaOG

Жыл бұрын

@@Anthony-pq4vr Yeah, Adar was basically the only character that i wanted to know more about. I was intrigued to hear him talk and learn who/what he is. Rest of the characters were quite Bland. Even though i liked Durin as a character, there isnt that much about him that im dying to learn.

You are right on. totally agreed with everything, but especially your observation that there are many scenes in this show that seem to serve no purpose or are redundant. They don't understand the fundamentals of story. Regarding Adar, he's one of the only characters that has a clear motivation, a motivation which was tied to events in the show- Honestly, that should be basic, but it's hard to articulate that for most of the other characters.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Right?! When everyone was saying they loved Adar, I was like...yeah, he's the only person that makes sense in this entire show, except from maybe Durin (who people also like). I can't believe such a small side character is the only one that they actually followed basic story telling principles with. I also think it's ironic that the people they *tried* to make likeable end up coming off as super unlikeable, and the villain as likeable 😅 A clear misunderstanding on how to write characters.

@Anthony-pq4vr

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely agree, Adar was by far the most compelling character in the entire season, and he was completely sabotaged by the end. His introduction and first lines was maybe the most memorable part of the show for me. Acting was also phenomenal.

@xander821

Жыл бұрын

Agreed! It frustrated me that the protagonists motivation were so vaguely defined. Galadriel has been hunting Sauron for centuries because he killed her brother, oké but why is she still so hung up about it? The reactions from the elves seem to suggest that her reaction is not a common way to grief for elves, but it is not explored why she feels so extreme about this. Was she supposed to help her brother and came to late or is there some other regret that she hasn’t been able to let go off? Or does she consider it her duty to find and slay Sauron, but then why is she so emotionally invested?

@VoltaDoMar

Жыл бұрын

@@xander821 You're right, it's paper thin.

When Galadriel refused to be mansplained and rejected the white guy because he hadn't checked his privilege, I got literal goosebumps

@LuisSierra42

Жыл бұрын

When she approached Halbrand and whispered in his ear "Down with the patriarchy" i had to pause the video and run around my house in order to deal with the excitement

As always, great analysis and breakdown - hit so many great points and I think your rewrite would've been MUCH better

This video allows me to feel better about missing out on something and banking up the time it would have taken to watch the show haha

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I can’t believe you have an entire eight hours that I lost. Do something better with it than I did

@readbykyle3082

Жыл бұрын

What a gift Bookborn has given you, Michael. You might have to name your next child after her. Bookborn Knipp. It has some pizzazz to it!

@QuestLegacy

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I can't lie to myself. I didn't lol

@zachryder3150

Жыл бұрын

Guiding others to a treasure she cannot possess.

Great breakdown Bookborn, I love hearing well thought out critiques like this. I just cannot believe how this show’s writing was so mediocre. I feel like there is absolutely no excuse for this show to be as boring as it was; more of that budget should’ve been spent on the writer’s room. Hopefully next season doesn’t feel like a first draft lol

You forgot to mention the part when the Numenorean cavalry are charging towards the dirt village and the sun is behind them when they are riding from west to east.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Shhhhhhhhh the showrunners didn't expect us to notice that 🫠

Tolkien works were written to be anti modernity, the creators of the show said they wanted to take Tolkiens work and give it a modern update. This alone made it impossible to ever be a Tolkien story.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Hmm I don't necessarily agree. I think the great thing about Tolkien is that his works can still absolutely be relevant today - so modern. I think the mistake is thinking that they have to try super hard TO modernize it - the stuff he talked about was already timeless.

@JoeTheLion60

Жыл бұрын

Exactly - when did we ever get to thinking that art was supposed to reflect "today?" Fantasy is about opening up new worlds NOT pandering to cultural or political views - Soviet Russia tried that by making political cartoons from East Germany and Eastern Europe - how well did that turn out?

@simpdefendmlady6579

Жыл бұрын

Modern update huh? Maybe you should tell the 6 million Ukrainian women who fled and left behind their sons and husbands that 'modern' women fight wars with more might than the men

Sounds like a show made by a committee. We'll see if they learned some lessons next year. Oh, and I enjoyed watching your husband on Stephan Aryan's KZread interview with him and Ryan Cahill. Learned a lot.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Yep I think the committee is a huge aspect. No vision!

so weird that Galadrial didnt mention her husband until ep 6 the writers clearly have issues with men

Nice breakdown, it's good to hear voices of people who appreciated the first episodes and then fell out of love as it revealed itself to be the atrocity that it was. My wife and I were in the same camp, though it was more along the lines of 'not as bad as we expected' after the first episode than 'good', but by the end we were horrified. Just one thing, I agree entirely that the Durin/Elrond relationship AT FIRST was one of the nicer elements of the show and was highly enjoyable to begin with, but we really got annoyed with it when it turned out that Elrond's brains melted and flowed out of his head as he was teleporting too much between the Dwarven and Elven realms that he ended up being so stupid beyond relief that it was barely watchable. There're only so many times you can accept that he's supposed to be a great friend while simultaneously having broken his oath to said friend ten times without even being aware of it.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Ok totally agree about durin and Elrond tho like I loved their chemistry but the story just made NO SENSE by the end 😭

Thank you for your comments at 13:00! Yes I'm so sick of duex ex magicka. "How do we get them out of this scene? I know! The hero will just grimace and hold out their hands and suddenly display some god-like powers we've never seen before!" Like when they kept adding ridiculous superpowers to Superman in the 60s or the hero of a Clive Cussler novel that just happens to be an expert in whatever skill they need at the time. "Have I never mentioned that in addition to being a CIA assassin I'm also a genetic engineer and a world class sushi chef?" This is why we never care about characters, we can't empathize with them, we don't fear for them, we have no emotional stake in their story.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

YES YES YES. I'm sooo tired of power creep. Limitations to magic and powers is what makes a character interesting AND what drives tension in a story. If, as an audience, we assume new powers can come whenever a character is in danger, we have no reason to fear for anyone.

I mean, the only person who was really tricked by Sauron was Galadriel, but it wasn’t because Sauron was being deliberately deceitful; she deceived herself. He told her he was an evil man, but she wanted that army to go kick Sauron’s butt so bad she didn’t stop and check her facts before handing this guy a kingdom. And it took like a single day for an elven clerk to dig up the info that Halbrand indeed wasn’t the King of the Southlands. Why didn’t she check for that in Numenor? Heck, why didn’t Miriel check for that information herself? It seems like a big deal allying with a guy you know nothing about who an abrasive elf says is a king. I imagine the Numenoreans would have records on the Southlands. Halbrand only becomes king because absolutely no one questions his legitimacy.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I mean and then there is the fact that he tells a supposedly world-famous crafter about alloys like...

I miss the Galadriel of the books and the Peter Jackson movies. A wise and empathetic leader with great people skills. And also a great judge of character. Look at how Galadriel reacted to Gimli's request for a lock of her hair as opposed to the elf lord Feonor. Despite being a mighty elf lord Galadriel knew he was arrogant jerk and refused him. With Gimli she saw a good person who simply wanted a memento of their meeting. Galadriel gave him three.

Regarding the POV thing: The Wire has multiple POV characters and multiple loosely interconnected plotlines, but you can watch thirteen hours of its first season in one go, just because all of those characters and plotlines are interesting and fleshed-out. So, the message is not "don't add muliple points of view", but rather "don't add multiple points of view when you barely have enough stuff happening to keep one".

Ok so I just watched each of your RoP episode comparison videos and then this one. When you watch them all in a row like that you can actually see your early excitement and enthusiasm shift through the videos to clear disappointment by the end of this one. Its heartbreaking to see this program turn out to be such a disaster given all that's been invested in it. Especially considering the tremendous potential of the material they were working with. I think the last time I was this disappointed in a show was the series Lost when it was finally revealed that nothing really meant anything and the whole cast were all dead. Anyway, you did a great job of clarifying what was and wasn't canon for those of us who haven't read the Silmarillion. And a great job of clearly articulating what went wrong. Thanks and great job!

I agree with every one of your observations. I'm not familiar with the Silmarillion, so my disappointment with this series has everything to do with it failure to tell a story that made me care about what happened to the characters. In so many places (e.g., Miriel's going blind) the writers serve up what's supposed to be, it seems, a tragic or triumphant moment, without it moving me one iota. Fan service seems to be an obsession with contemporary writers and showrunners, but fan service has to be handled with some finesse, or it ends up looking amateurish. Dangliing Sauron and, obviously, Gandalf as the absolute center of the first season betrays a lack of creativity on the part of the producers and writers. Try establishing a more original story, then bring in the known characters in such a way that they enhance the tale you're telling -- not as a substitute for originality. Whether Sauron or Gandalf figure prominently in the Silmarillion ir not, don't dangle themin such a on-the nose- fashion. And the dialogue. Galadriel loves to declare how wonderful she is, and how much she has seen/suffered. The result is a central character who is about as likable as a carbuncle. Even if the idea is to have her develop as a character, she has to have some likability and a snarly smile on a horse ain't it. I too liked Arondir, until he faded into Bronwyn's shadow -- and WHT?? She becomes a military commander based on what? Knowledge of plants? She has to earn the respect of the audience as well as the village folk, not just assume a mantle without proving she's qualified. I could go on. I won't. Ugh.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

"fan service...is not a substitute for originality" PLEASE SAY IT LOUDER FOR THOSE IN THE BACK. yes!!! It's so annoying that they're like "let's just throw in gandalf. people love gandalf!" He shouldn't be needed in the story if you're telling a good one.

@Makkaru112

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn he wasn't even around in the second age. If anything coming as Olorin in Galadriel's dreams etc as the Valar worked this way for ages. Cue in Faramir's dreams, then Borimir's to follow way later on, and Frodo's. He had many, and even a few before the journey even started!

@Makkaru112

Жыл бұрын

You'd love the many cool audiobooks that even have amazing ambient to go with it! Children Of Hùrin you'll love.

I’m convinced that Galadriel is actually Sauron. That’s the only thing that could save the show as far as I’m concerned bc her character is so chaotically written, there’s no redeeming her😩.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

It’s so funny because at the end when galadriel is convincing them to make three rings my husband was like “oh! That’s sauron as galadriel! That’s fun!” And then… it actually wasn’t 🤣 like her character is ALL over the place

@WilliamsPinch

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn 🤣🤣 exactly! What a let down lol

@simpdefendmlady6579

Жыл бұрын

It's not chaotic at all. She is all powerful and determined i.e. better than every other character, especially the guys who seem to just get in the way more than help. She is never wrong, unlike everyone else besides Arondir and his wife. Notice a pattern?

For me pacing and lack of tension was by far the biggest issue. I can even forgive the lack of character arcs for the elves because I think it would be shocking for a long lived race to have a full arc in a single season but I really like the idea you had with having us see Galadriel descending further while she thinks she is healing. That would have made her feel like she was making progress even though she can’t actually progress that quickly as an Elf I think. I also agree the harfoot situation should have been pushed to season 2 and I think it could’ve added a lot of tension to actually tell the audience Halbrand was Sauron while keeping the characters in the dark instead of doing the whole red herring approach. I do think there is potential if they can work out the pacing and character issues though but maybe I’m just an optimist 😅. Either way thanks for another great video!

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

yeah like I think if we want to be more true to it, Galadriel shouldn't really have an arc because the elves don't change. But they could've made that compelling too, right? If they compared it to dwarves or humans. They sort of *try* and do this with Elrond, but then they never mention it again. And I think that's the issues - so many ideas and dropped story lines that it ends up a mess.

@darianstarfrog

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn bingo! No care was taken to even make a good series..let alone a Tolkien one.. in all factors, they failed, except most the cgi, with was do e by the very people, here in NZ, that did LOTR..

@bleachdiet559

Жыл бұрын

Healing from what, her Karen attitude? Not sure if I should be mad at her or myself for wasting 8 hours on that show

The problem I had with lore and this show is that they kept saying they were following the books and blaming fans for pointing out they were lying to us. I couldn't get past the blatant lying to even give the show a chance after 4 episodes. I just gave up. Glad to see I didn't miss anything.

I learned from amazon that strong women can swim across an ocean, take a erupting volcano to the face and standing in a blowing up building super easy with no side effects.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Truly the only things a female needs

Just stumbled onto your channel, but have say this is one of the best reviews I have seen, and sums up my feelings also. Just put a lot more eloquently than I ever could. I am glad you raised the issue of the continual inconsistencies, which on their own could be overlooked, but there where just so many of them it really made the story incoherent. Just some more to add to the list: why if the sigil was a map and the plan B for the Southlands would you stamp it on your dead enemy, Galadriel jumps off the boat with just a dress, but when they leave Numenor suddenly she has her full elfin armor back, how do you fit 500 soldiers and horses on three ships, if Adar is so caring of his Orks, why have so many killed to retrieve a key to unlock a dam that they could have simply destroyed themselves with no loss of life, Galadriel is told Adar is escaping with an "artifact" and after he is captured she doesn't think to actually look to see what the artifact is...wonder why he went to so much trouble to get it...she doesn't even ask Adar about it when they are talking, but then the teenage boy talks about the affect the dark sword was having on him, making him feel powerful, so yeah lets just give it back to him!! And once Galadriel, and then Elrond, discovers who Halbrand is, neither stop to ask what was Sauron up to, why was he helping us make the rings, maybe we should think about this before we proceed with actually making them.....

Hey, if it's not too much trouble, I had a question. You mentioned the anchoring issue, right? It's about that. I am planning on writing a book someday soon, and before that I am writing fanfiction as practice. And the style I have favored is switching PoVs a lot. My 'main character' gets less of these, and a lot of his most epic moments are seen from others' perspectives. When is it bad to have multiple PoVs, and when is it okay? Do you have any blogs or videos on this that you recommend if it's too much for you alone? And why is it A Game of Thrones works (first book, not the tv series) but RoP didn't?

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I mean truthfully it’s all about skill and practice. The best thing you can do is read books with a lot of perspectives and see how they do it. The fandom sites have lists of chapters and who the PoV is from - if you look at those for a lot of books, you’ll probably see some patterns.

@aniruddhbhatkal1834

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn okay, thank you for the reply! I really do want to be a good writer 😅

The three elven rings were made last and outside of Annatars knowledge. And originally he meant for ALL the rings he had already made to go ALL to the elves. But since that went to heck, he launched an assault upon Eregion almost Ceaslessly for a time. And during this time Celebrimbor was tortured in the most otherworldly way possibly. Ungodly. Sauron (He is now named by the elves meaning Deceiver) marched with Celebrimbor skewered upon one of their evil pikes. It also took 100s of years for Annatar to gain any headway. Even when he pretended to be a herald of the Valar.

Nice rewrite! I was thinking that scaling it waaay down and having a simple contest between the protagonist and antagonist, with support cast, still with great scenes, and magic, and rival interests, etc would start the show better. A core character set would be showing just how powerful and dark Sauron could be, which requires some flashbacks to Morgoth, and therefore why he's such a threat in "fair form", what has he been up to this whole time, what have the elves discovered?; and that Galadriel actually has conflicting drivers for securing her own future, prospects for her family, defending the realm, avenging her brother, and the occasionally difficult relations with the other elves and factions. That way there would be some nuance and complexity to her character. Heck, even a plotline of Sauron deceiving her for a season would work, maybe with a huge wake-up call with the torture and death of Celebrimbor. The Stranger doesn't belong in this age at all, and mucks up so much continuity. (Uh, so the Valar send a Maia to ME before the One Ring is forged? Why?)

The whole “you must touch the darkness to know the light” thing is basically the opposite of Tolkien’s whole philosophy of the lord of the rings. It’s so bad and disrespectful it’s almost as unbelievable as the shows narrative

What's funny about the magic creep is that literally the LOTR D&D 5E game book figured out the metric to use for spellcasting. Don't include it, but if you do, keep it to cantrip type effects. Vague, non-directly applicable magic. No fireballs, just things like a light, sensing an aura, tracking someone's steps in the dirt, marking an object with a small colourful mark. That type of thing. Gandalf is the closest we ever get to a D&D spell and the most powerful equivalent he uses in D&D would be a makeshift fireball using pinecones which at best just pisses off and scares the wargs, cleared the clouds and let the light of creation in the sun hurt the orcs and the nazgul, he uses a shield spell against the balrog, and he uses a warding on a door that the balrog uses counter-spell on and tries to connect telepathically with gandalf. These are all VERY minor magical powers which border on useless unless applied in a smart way. The Paradox of magic in LOTR is that the powerful D&D type spells and stuff are possible by the maiar or valar, BUT they're intentionally withheld cause last time they unleashed that sort of power they sunk Beleriand.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely right! Plus, the way that the very soft magic system in LOTR is balanced out is that magic often causes problems (for example, when Gandalf uses it to save everyone from the Balrog, we also lose Gandalf)

I think amazon could’ve made a show that fits main characters that are dwarves, men, and hobbits that also fits into the lore, by making multiple. They should have made multiple shows and movies focusing on different pieces of the history.

Liked your alternate Galadrial story line, maybe there is hope we get some character re-thinks for season 2. In Tolkien's world there is always hope, even if it's a fools hope.. :)

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I'm gonna wait to see what the consensus is on the first couple episodes before watching tbh 😅 Mostly because the episodes are just SO LONG

@grayavatar9766

Жыл бұрын

Remember hope is never mere (small) even when it is meager (small) 🤣

@darianstarfrog

Жыл бұрын

Lol it's clear everyone on this show, is incapable of creating a solid show, season 2 isn't going to be better, if it does improve at all..it'll be a fluke , and won't last a whole season..

@darianstarfrog

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn even we, who were pirating, as to not pad the numbers, didn't download many at all..I stopped at 3, it's shockingly bad , and is much more entertaining to watch as humorous recaps in yt. Sooo much better! But, the number for pirating is real small too..like surprisingly even.. hilarious.. and there's no merchandise! Lol Amazon's lying about the viewership..clearly

This video really sums up how my wife and I felt about ROP. I really like your ideas in what would have improved the season. I'm really hoping the writers incorporate some of this feedback into season 2.. without changes it's not too far fetched as a huge fan too stop watching all together which is such a bummer to say.

Wonderful video! I'm a "vibe viewer" if I can get into the vibe of a show or film or piece of music and that vibe keeps me engaged then I'll usually stay invested. ROP was that for me, I found myself frustrated many episodes byt the story but still emotionally moved when things happened -- also the score is incredible, so I think that a lot for me too But I absolutely agree with the narrative critiques of this series and it frustrates me so much because I think every other aspect of this production BROUGHT THEIR A GAME, but the writing just fell flat. Too many cooks seems appropriate. Felt like producers, execs, writers, and probably even Bezos came in to give notes on the screen plays when they should have butted out. Felt like characters were added to 'please audiences' instead of for story reasons; or other characters were introduced to help set up later seasons, muddling this season (Harfoots should be season 5; Stranger season 4 - and he finds them later; Numenor season 2 or 3; season 1 should have JUST be Elves, Dwarves and Sauron's shadow over Mordor and everyone - I like the idea of seeing the Southlands, but we didn't get enough time to fully invest. I think the other glaring mistake this show did was try to 'hard magic' soft magic. Tolkien is SOFT magic, he is myth and folkstories and fairytales where shit happens because why not and magic is magic (not because of science but because its magic, it's magical, it doens't need to make sense.) and the show really lost me every time it tried to explain bits of magic. The showrunners said this was something they wanted to do and just no, please no. I like these showrunners, I think they understand the themes of tolkien and they are learnered in the lore and the world, but fuck they do not understand how his magic works. The showrunner and Charlie Vickers have stated that season 2 is all about Sauron, his history, and like a 'Usual Suspects' style 'how did we get here' with Sauron to help explain things in season 1 that are still a mystery. And like... sure whatever, but I think this is the wrong kind of storytelling for this show. Focusing on the 'mystery' is too JJ Abrams (and I like mysteries!) for Tolkien. It did get people talking, fair enough, but perhaps not exactly in the way they wanted or were hoping. you idea for the show is MUCH better and as you were describing I kept thinking, "fuuucckk that would have made this show incredible!" Hopefully the writers have been listening to the narrative critiques and are addressing it for future seasons. The production (prod. and post) teams are giving this show their all, as are actors, so its a real shame that the writing has suffered so much. My opinion for future seasons --- producers and execs BUT the fuck out! --- stop worrying about 'what the internet would think' --- focus on individual character journeys, omit the fluff until you need it later and then focus on them (Stranger things made us care about Eddy in ONE episode before they fucked with him; you don't need to introduce your entire cast in season 1) --- if JJ abrams or his ideologies is everywhere near those writters rooms GET HIM OUT. I like him, but this isn't the world for him.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Ok I agree with literally EVERYTHING you said! And I didn't even think of pushing stranger/harfoots to even later season but you are so right, they don't belong with this stuff anyway. If we simplified it to just elves and dwarves in the first season, introduced numenor and humans in the second...would've been such a good vibe. Also nailed it on the magic. I didn't even think of that, but Tolkien's magic is the definition of soft magic. We can't describe it. It just HAPPENS. I think it was too many cooks and also just simple inexperience. I'm just not sure they've studied why something makes a good story - they just tried to copy elements without understanding the basis for them. And man I should've used Eddie as an example! Like you care about him SO QUICK! Another great example from that season is Enzo like that guy has barely any screen time and he was one of my favorite characters. It's all about efficiency in storytelling.

Great breakdown and insight - you covered it. I only wish you could have watched House of the Dragon concurrently so the problems you highlight in ROP would have been in even starker contrast (but I get you're not into the GRRM style of story). I think it's worth remembering that the showrunners/producers are of the "Bad Robot" mystery box method championed by JJ Abrams. Given that you weren't a fan of the Star Wars sequel trilogy, also guided by JJA, it's no surprise that a lot of what you didn't like in ROP overlapped with your critiques of those movies.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

You know I was thinking the same thing! Mystery boxes CAN work but man JJ just has such a bad track record with how to use them. People are trying to convince me to watch HotD! They say it has less sex than GoT but I've heard conflicting reports on that front haha

@spinningclio

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn less sex/nudity? Yes, but it still has some. Along with the standard in-world moral depravity such as ruling class incest. 🙄

@donkeysunited

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I've only seen up to episode 8 and there's a lot less compared to GoT. It feels like the actresses are more aware of protecting their nudity this time around - GoT may have tricked a few into it.

@donkeysunited

Жыл бұрын

On the mystery boxes, I heard that JJ Abrams recommended these showrunners to Amazon back when he had more credibility in the industry (before audiences found out he's useless).

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

@@donkeysunited Yeah I just read that recently actually coming directly from the showrunners mouths - but it's weird that he recommended them and amazon took them when they literally have NOTHING under their belts...

Great critique! I agree with so much of what you put forward here. Thanks for going into such detail.

Ohh man, theres soo much things wrong in this show, i would be really happy if the only things wrong were the lore bits. But thats hardly why the show fails (as a show not an adaptation). Even when the show is on its "best" it makes no sense, for exemple, everybody points out the relationship between elrond and durin was the highligh of the show, and i think maybe theres something wrong with me but that relationship was the most fabricated thing i've seen and it felt so fake because of that. Yes the performances were there, the chemistry were there, but from where? They just told us they are best friends, but are they really? If it wasnt for this convoluted plot to get mithril, Elrond probably would never go visit durin, he was doing nothing before and still missed out all the important events in his "best frinds" life, and even then the show wants us to believe durin would knowingly put all of his ppl in danger to help his best friend because they told us that is what they are. But why is that? We KNOW why gimli and legolas are now best friends it wasnd TOLD.

Hello Bookborn. In an interview you mentioned YA books that you read and were some of your favorites - Lost Magic, Two Princes of Baramir(?), and So You Want to be a Wizard. Could you tell me the authors of these books? Thank you!!!

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Yeah! In order, Berthe Amoss (although this is out of print and difficult to get), Gail Carson Levine, and Diane Duane.

@DuhrectorDude

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Thank you!

Show was so boring. My wife tapped out at 20 minutes in the first episode and she's been making fun of me for continuing ever since 🤣 you did a great job breaking down what didn't work, and that Galadriel arc would have been much better.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Jess is so smart like I need to follow her lead more

Oh dear, your rewrite of Galadriel's arc made it so much better. :) Great video :)

Your analysis is spot on! Really went straight on point to the biggest problems of the show, the bad writing, empty character arcs, forced emotions, etc. Many critics of the show are just trash talking.

Great series of vids on this. While you have way more knowledge and backstory than I - I've read and watched The Hobbit and the LTR series - I felt you did a fantastic job articulating so much of what I was feeling throughout and in culmination of the season. I appreciate your efforts and insights, became a sub, and will most definitely be checking out your other work. Cheers

You make some really great points and I was explaining the episodic feel or lack there of to my friend and I compare it to how The Last Kingdom does it better. Like actually I compare all shows against The Last Kingdom now cause it has the most satisfying experience all the way through all 5 seasons

The episode where Galadriel told an entire fleet of Orcs to educate themselves on using pronouns made me cry tears of validation!

@ironmonkey1512

Жыл бұрын

You don't get it... Drumf voters = filthy orcs

I'm so glad I found your video. I felt everything you say on this video but I didn't know how to put it to words. I have friends that are like "you didn't like Rings of Power? It's sooo good" and I stare at them not being able to explain to them why I thought it was bad.

Good analysis. One note, you dont even mention dwarves until min 18 when you say how to change things for the better: what did the dwarves actually contribute this season that needed so much screen time?

Love your rewrite! Even though in Lore, Galadriel immediately sees through Sauron's deception, if the show wanted to do a Galadriel/Sauron matchup, what you suggest is perfect.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I would've liked to see a Galadriel that saw through Sauron, but that would require a complete rewrite of the show to make it interesting - I think you'd have to stay mostly with the elves/dwarves and develop them believing him and her not. My rewrite was trying to keep their framework in place - whether for good or bad 😅

@RevAnakin

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn absolutely, and that is why I love it so much! Maybe over the 50 hours of content we'll be able to cut it down into a tangible story :)

@perkia164

Жыл бұрын

That is not entierly true. Galadriel did not see through Sarons deception, posing as Annatar. Nor did Gil-Galad or Cirdan. But they did sense that something was not right wth him, a "bad vibe" sort of. and that was enough for them to mistrust him. Had they realized that it was Sauron, they woukd have acted upon that. Galadriel could see through and to the inner heart of a person, so to speak, she couldnt do that on Annatar, therefore she got suspicous of him.

@Makkaru112

Жыл бұрын

@@perkia164 she did actually. Instantly. Gracefully turned him down, Sussed him out fast! And it took annatar 500 years to even make a small dent within their culture. She knew he wasn't an elf as she didn't remember him studying amongst the valar alongside her. She'd remember them all as she's the youngest among the eldest of royalty from two types if elder elven clans.

@Makkaru112

Жыл бұрын

@@perkia164 no, he couldn't read her mind while she could read his without him even knowing. Whenever he searched for her from afar he couldn't find her but she could find him!! The door remains closed.

This is the best review of the series I’ve seen yet, you call out everything I saw and experienced.

I was hopeful a few years ago. Amazon was doing a great job with The Expanse. They announced Wheel of Time, LOTR, Ringworld, and Snowcrash. All books that i loved. I'm no longer hopeful. At all. Add in the horrible writing on Apple's Foundation series (noted exception on the Emperor's plotline)... I'm actively starting to hate streaming networks even looking at my treasured books

Amazon managed, in my two favourite IPs (Tolkien's world and The Wheel of Time), to produce shows that were simultaneously bloated and empty. They really need to start hiring show runners who actually know what they're doing, because their current stock of apprentices are embarrassingly useless.

When Galadriel told Sauron to “stop mansplaining,” I was moved to tears

Like you I had very high hopes and really wanted to love the show. I blame the writers for poor pacing and an utter lack of emotion and earned tension. I also agree that the harfoot content was pointless

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

The showrunners haven't done anything else (their rotten tomato page is literally just this show) and it shows. big time.

It reminds me of Mark Twain's evisceration of James Fenimore Cooper's "The Deerslayer". Here is an excerpt; see how well Rings of Power can replace The Deerslayer: There are nineteen rules governing literary art in the domain of romantic fiction-some say twenty-two. In Deerslayer Cooper violated eighteen of them. These eighteen require: 1. That a tale shall accomplish something and arrive somewhere. But the Deerslayer tale accomplishes nothing and arrives in the air. 2. They require that the episodes of a tale shall be necessary parts of the tale, and shall help to develop it. But as the Deerslayer tale is not a tale, and accomplishes nothing and arrives nowhere, the episodes have no rightful place in the work, since there was nothing for them to develop. 3. They require that the personages in a tale shall be alive, except in the case of corpses, and that always the reader shall be able to tell the corpses from the others. But this detail has often been overlooked in the Deerslayer tale. 4. They require that the personages in a tale, both dead and alive, shall exhibit a sufficient excuse for being there. But this detail also has been overlooked in the Deerslayer tale. 5. They require that when the personages of a tale deal in conversation, the talk shall sound like human talk, and be talk such as human beings would be likely to talk in the given circumstances, and have a discoverable meaning, also a discoverable purpose, and a show of relevancy, and remain in the neighborhood of the subject in hand, and be interesting to the reader, and help out the tale, and stop when the people cannot think of anything more to say. But this requirement has been ignored from the beginning of the Deerslayer tale to the end of it.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Ok but not number 3 😂 And like yeah...unfortunately RoP checked all these boxes 😬

the opening 'rock and ship' analogy was a dead giveaway of what the writer's were at.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Some of us had hope ok lmao

Only 14 executive producers? Star trek Picard " Hold my Beer". 20 executive producers.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Is it a good show?

@marctorres2

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Not in my opinion. I'll leave the lambasting to the professionals. kzread.info/dash/bejne/mpqFxshyY8icY6w.html

@TheN9nth

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn It is generally agreed upon that Picard is the worst Star Trek produced to date.

Excellent analysis. My biggest issue with the excuse that they "don't have the rights to the Silmarillion" is that the show pretends that it doesn't exist. You can still respect the material, even if you can't present it. They just said f it and presented us with hilariously bad Galadriel loves Sauron fan-fiction.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

YES ONE HUNDRED. Like they still have the rights to the entire LOTR! I'm so worried now that I've heard that they want to make sauron a "complex bad guy like in breaking bad". Like excuse me. No...that's going to far lore wise even for me LOL

@yangtze2000

Жыл бұрын

Yes, Galadriel can't help loving the bad boy. More inaccurate portrayal of Galadriel in particular, and negative portrayal of women generally. Wonder what life would be like in the Sauron/ Galadriel household, with all the little Sauradriels and Galadrons running around? Galadron: "Mum look! Dad's found Tiddles!" Galadriel: "Sauron! That cat died six months ago! I told you not to do your dam necromancy in front of the children!"

@LuxieDamned

Жыл бұрын

On another extreme, why would you do a story based mostly on a book that you don't have the rights for?

I wish we could get to the root of the bad writing problem and just pay for better scripts or trust one clear vision in the stories we want to see. I'm still going to check out RoP since I've been waiting until AFTER all the episodes are released so I can view them at my leisure. It'll probably still be problematic but I want to judge it for myself because I want more incredibly written series' and offer my own personal thoughts on what improvements we could see in future sci-fi/fantasy television shows 📺

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Let me know what you think of the show! I think some of these big budget show's problem is that too many people get a say, and so it ends up being a mess. You really need that one person at the helm for writing that gets a yes/no to everything.

11:42 - I haven't seen Stranger Things, but I wholeheartedly agree with everything you're saying about more than just the music[/etc.] needing to support the big/emotional 'moments'. That being said, I think even properly supported moments aren't always going to incite the same if any emotional response in every person, and sometimes even improperly supported moments can end up striking just the right nerve with some people.....ssoo, I dunno, I feel like emotional responses are often propped up as a much less subjective thing than they truly are, and I question sometimes just how much they can always be used as a measure of the quality of anything like writing or performance or such sometimes. Which is why, personally, I have complicated feelings about whether or not I always agree with other people about exactly which things that I have watched or read did or didn't feel either hollow or earned. I don't really know how to dig into it beyond that, right now, though; Nor am I entirely certain, at this precise moment, if I actually do or don't myself agree or disagree with whether RoP did or didn't.😶😅😅🙃🙃🙃🤨🤔👀 Lolll Hopefully my binge!re-watch, when I get to it, will clear that up for me a lot better though. ^-^

"But how will we pull off the big reveal? So far she's only found symbols in evil places" "Just have her ask for a scroll or something and have him there when she reads it"

@darianstarfrog

Жыл бұрын

It's even worse than that, there's a video on yt that breaks it down..it shows how much they changed that simple scene, to make it easy for people not paying attention..they added a cgi page, in her hand, transparent, so you could see the symbol, aaand have her, in an added voiceline, her not moving jaw, hidden by the over sized cgi piece of paper, explain the revelation outright..

Sounds like it's time for you to watch a good show, with good writing and acting and payouts to mysteries...like "Dark" on Netflix.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I started Andor and liked it haha! And I just had Stranger Things!

@darianstarfrog

Жыл бұрын

Karate kid is actually really good too.. but also ofcourse the haunting of hill house, and bly manour, aswell as midnight mass, are great in the darker series

@karmelomarin9592

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn i highly recommend The Expanse, talking about great adaptation, storytelling and character arcs.

I stopped watching after a few episodes when it felt like things were getting a bit too unwieldy but I enjoyed your thoughts on how and why the proverbial train might have derailed. I've noticed this trend with a lot of big budget sff properties (Star Wars is a big one that comes to mind) where it seems like producers know everyone will watch it because of the name recognition but they put more effort into style than substance. Unfortunately I don't think it'll change soon because all these adaptations end up being super popular, Rings of Power included, so the studios see them as a success. Here's hoping someday someone will put in the writing and editing work for one that holds up a bit better!

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

“Unwieldy” is such the perfect world. It just sort of lost control of itself. I agree, unfortunately. These properties pull in so much money that it doesn’t really mad if they are amazing or even good: passable is enough. However I’ll be surprised if these shows have the longevity of the original movies or adaptations for that same reason.

I know I'm super late to this (found your channel bc of the WoT finale), but they definitely *do* establish in the pilot that Galadriel felt she didn't deserve to go to Valinor. There's a whole conversation with Elrond in the pilot where she says "you'd have me take that darkness and pain into the Undying Lands where it would live forever" or something like that

There is a common problem in a lot of modern screen epics and adaptations such as the Rings of Power, but is also seen in the WoT adaptation and the Star Wars sequels. Stories and adaptations like this need a very detailed roadmap of what each episode or movie in the series is going to cover and a single person who is both responsible and has the authority to maintain that roadmap and vision. In hindsight, it is obvious that these are getting written and created piecemeal, with someone (and probably not just one person) just making it up as they go along. The creators like to claim that they had a consistent vision from the beginning, but it is clear this is not the case. You mention the expectation that each episode of the series have the feeling of being an individual story. I think these series would be much better if they went the other way and just committed to treating it like a single production. Film the whole thing and put it together. Then the last step is just breaking it into chunks for release. I worry that modern studios are not structured in a way that could really do this. The financing and staffing might simply not support committing to a big production all at once. That would be a shame.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I mean it’s hard to say. Maybe if the show had a super clear direction than each episode not having a story line would feel fine. As it was here, the show felt so aimless that I was waiting for anything to feel like it was complete. Either way I completely agree that it’s jsut too many people and someone needs to be leading a single vision.

@samuelrussell5760

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Agreed. It's definitely possible to go either direction in terms of how episodic you want a series to be. But I think epic fantasy generally needs to be epic. If you want it to be a series of smaller stories that work together to tell a larger story, that actually requires more coordination and forethought. I don't want to see RoP look like the adventures of Xena. Another piece of this seems to be an obsession with subverting expectations and making sure that people on the internet can't guess what's coming next. Good storytelling requires good foreshadowing and building anticipation. People will guess what is coming next and that is a sign of success, not failure.

@step4018

Жыл бұрын

The culture of modern corporations, especially those on the size of Disney and Amazon must be very difficult for creative people to cope with. It's why I expect we end up with show-runners who have not had a lot of experience as they are willing to "conform" and we get episodes by committee. Or perhaps its 5 minutes per writer as often they contradict the story in the same episode... A creative person with a lot of passion for the work and keeping people to the roadmap would probably been seen as a bully now 🤷‍♂

@donkeysunited

Жыл бұрын

@@step4018 Very true. You need a bully to keep everyone in line. Preferably a bully with an incredible creative mind and a healthy respect for any established lore. Replace bully with focused and determined if you like, but they still need to be able to say No to idiots and to make everyone step up.

Honestly, Bear McCreary carried a lot of this show on his back. Without his music, I never would’ve known when I was supposed to feel anything.

@darianstarfrog

Жыл бұрын

It's totally hit or miss..but yes, without it, none of the seems would feel like anything at all.. such a bad production

@IUsedToBeAnAdventurerLikeYou

Жыл бұрын

@@darianstarfrog to be honest, even though the music alerted me to emotional cues, as a whole it just wasn’t overly memorable for me. Nothing like the Breaking of the Fellowship or Concerning Hobbits, both of which are instantly recognizable. May It Be is another one. I haven’t gotten over that awful abuse of the One Ring poem in the final credits. That’s memorable simply because it’s quite painful to listen to.

Pandering and pageantry doesn't make a story.

Very accurate with the "unearned dramatics". What they did was exactly the opposite of what they intended. Another point that puzzled me and you pointed out was in the first episode, where Elrond is not being allowed to attend an elf Lords meeting, and then that problem is not mentioned again ..... They look like generic problems thrown to the characters so they can look interestings quick. By the way, who can claim better ancestors than Elrond? Thanks for the great review. It really express some things that I felt watching the show, but i did not know why.

I knew it was going to be a mess when I saw the image of Not-Galadriel wearing armor. Galadriel is a sorceress type of character, not a warrior, so I knew exactly what they were going to do and I was not surprised at all. And the fact that the 'rings of power' are crafted in the last five or ten minutes of the season? Come on ... This is Amazon's "Waste of Time" all over again.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Having a show called "The rings of power" and then spending five minutes on them is SUCH a CHOICE

Galadriel. A deadly combination of Karen and Mary-Sue. How anyone could have hopes for this show after the first 10 minutes is beyond me.

@Michael-tk9ux

Жыл бұрын

Karens, Mary Sues, radfems and femsels all love this show 💜

@kentjensen4504

Жыл бұрын

Yeah you have to be a pretty hopeless case to need more than ten minutes to see what a clown-show this was.

This review is right on point and it reflects what we all think. I am more scared for season 2. Thank you.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I'm not going to watch season 2 until after I've heard reviews tbh 🙈

Great review. Very detailed, but every detail was meaningful. Good job! I thought the show was OK, but I would have given up on it after ep.2 if it were NOT LOTR. You're pointing out why it didn't work, which I loved.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I for sure would've abandoned after ep 4 if it wasn't LOTR. The episode runtime was just TOO LONG for what this was... so sad 😭

@darianstarfrog

Жыл бұрын

It wasn't LOTR though..it's a bad fan fiction, at best.. you are freed 😉

@exciteyouraudience

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Definitely agree about the Harfoots that was just useless time. Andor is doing the same thing. The first 5 ep's could have been 1.

Love your channel m so glad I found you , I had a strong feeling from when it was announced years ago it would be a fail, Amazon got the rights and had some writers come up with a series, straight away you know these writers are nothing compared to JRR Tolkien's quality of work, these Amazon writers had 2 years roughly to write a series based on tolkiens work (loosely based in my opinion). While tolkien spent a whole life time on it and even from personal experience on ww1 from seeing the tanks comparing them to olyphants and even made new languages elvish and dwarf, Aswell as creating the universe which his son finished off in the silmarillion, I think personally they wasted the opportunity, instead of trying to out do tolkien with the rings of power they should of done a completely separate topic like the madalorian is to star wars

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I think that's a very good point, they could've set it in Middle Earth without trying to adapt something and may have been more successful.

When Galadriel pulled out The Sword in the Stone and yelled 'I Have the Power!!" became the greatest event in T.V history

As far as Galadriel goes, I feel like they missed out on an amazing love story between her and Celeborn. In the lore the reason why she turned down Valinor was because her husband wasn't going to be there.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I'm jsut SO confused why they included him in the last hour. Like...for the story they were telling so far, he made no sense. Why not include him from the beginning and have that inform her choices?

@corden9941

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Exactly. Instead of using her brother as a catalyst, they could have used her husband and her daughter for that fact. Her objective was revenge when it could have been love.

@LuxieDamned

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Oh shlt! she had a husband! ok....add it in the end and then we'll see

So far away from Tolkien I'm starting to think that the producers are children of melkor.

Something I found particularly ridiculous was the marshalling of Númenor's army and their sailing across a sea for, what I imagined, would be the defense of some major Middle Earth city, like Minas Tirith for e.g., instead it was for some piddling little village basically in the middle of nowhere! They came all that way to save that insignificant little place!!?? Also the elven garrison leaving the fortress LITERALLY hours before the orc tunnellers arrive, yeah, odd timing that. How long had they been there? However many hundreds of years? A thousand? Also when the orcs led by Adar invade the little town, and Bronwyn's son tells him where the sword hilt is hid, before he tells Adar, the orcs kill a few villagers. Then the Númenorian's arrive, vanquish or drive off the orcs, and the next scene we see all the villagers having a swell time in a sunny day, drinking and feasting! I mean, it's a tiny little village that the night previous had probably a quarter of its population stabbed or hacked to pieces by orcs - and now they're all celebrating as though nothing had happened! Total farce! Only thing I liked about the show was Adar - he's the actor who should have played Sauron. Nasty piece of work, and the orcs calling him father was creepy, as well as factually inaccurate (Morgoth made the orcs). p.s. The balrog was also p cool

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

The real question is how did they find that place or know where it was and arrive at precisely the right time? Was Google maps involved? Was it a set time???

@TMxtt

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Their arrival at the optimal and most-dramatic moment was anticipated. The show is just corny and predictable like that. No idea how they knew of the location though, did the village even have a name? I don't think Galadriel ever mentioned it if it did, and she's the one who should have been familiar with it considering the whole thing was her plan. It would have been so easy for them to explain how they found the village, like meeting refugees from it on the coast or something, but they didn't have the nous to even do that correctly.

This was a good perspective for me to hear as someone who loves Tolkien and REALLY doesn't like the show 👍 You took it apart WITHIN itself and separate from the butchering of the lore. I kept getting super annoyed when the world building sucked (Celebrimbor and Elrond need to TRAVEL to the dwarves and BOOM the next scene they're THERE in the same clothes no travel bags nothing) Or when characters were SUPPOSED to be skilled but do DUMB stuff (Like Arondir a trained military man deciding to ABANDON a fortified STONE keep with one point of entry to a one story thatch innkeep) I kept telling myself over and over (especially with "armor" that looked like PLASTIC and neoprene painted wet suits) HOW IS THIS COSTING $60 MILLION PER EPISODE 😅🤙🏼

I'm so glad you made this video because you pinpoint everything I felt about this show. I really wanted to like it but it felt like a huge snooze fest to me. A lot of people love r Rings of Power ower, and I'm happy for them, but I just don't feel the same way. I haven't even seen the final episode yet. To me there's just too much going on. Too many characters, too many storylines to keep up with. The only characters I know about our Galadriel and Elrond and obviously it's because they were in there OG Lord of the Rings. And even their storylines were uninteresting to me.

Part of me theorizes that the show's massive budget might be partly to blame. I feel like the writers and show runners were very careless because of having a near $1 billion budget gave them the kind of funding that seemed limitless, and thus they took their project forgranted. Where if they had a more limited budget (for at least it's first season) maybe that would have forced them to focus more on writing and less on visuals; making them earn a bigger budget rather than just handing it to them. Am I the only one that thinks this to be a possibility?

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I actually made an entire video on this last year when the budget was first published! I said that it worries me when a show constantly advertises it's budget - it has a lack of understanding of what makes a good show (and I proved that budget has almost no correlation after a certain point to quality). The giant budget probably contributed to two things: the lack of a need to be creative, and a LOT of people feeling like they had a say because it was their money on the line, making it writing by committee.

@donkeysunited

Жыл бұрын

It's a possibility and probably part of the reason it failed. But if there was a small budget they'd probably blame that for the failure. I think everyone in the production was wearing blinkers and rose tinted glasses, buying into their own hype that the show would be amazing and overlooking the fact that they had mostly hired amateurs in all areas (writing, cameras, lighting, fight choreography, costume design, editing). Most YT channels are ridiculing the writers (and rightly so) but there are some channels pointing out the glaring flaws in other areas too. So far, most agree that the actors are probably not to blame.

@TailsxNobody

Жыл бұрын

That all supports the idea that the writing was lead by a committee, "too many captains and not enough lieutenants" so to speak. There is defiantly a since of an underlined ego that has stunted the show to a poor fan fiction. As far as the actor are concerned I can't say much because I don't recognize them from anything else to compare by, plus even the best actor need somewhat good direction (which RoP seems to have had little to none). If anything I feel bad for them, this is like getting a bad gig that will effect possible roles in their future.

In the case of Galadriel's arc within the show, anyone can easily make a near one-to-one comparison with Korra in Legend of Korra, especially during the Red Lotus arc. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers got together and said, "Let's make another Korra but instead of an Avatar, make it Galadriel of LOTR!" At the end of it all, the side characters (the non-original characters) outshined the lore-characters. Much like Legend of Korra. People connected with the villains; just like the Red Lotus and the Separatists in Legend of Korra. Rings of Power is just a LOTR-skin with a Legend of Korra framework.

There were so many points where the show wanted me to feel sad about a character's death where I laughed out loud like when Random Guy A gets his throat slit in the orc camp and then Random Guy B gets shot with arrows and the show is trying to sell it like it's the death of Boromir. Don Lemon Elf is crying and I'm laughing my ass off because the show has done absolutely nothing to earn the response it wants you to have.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Yep, that's another great example of a scene that they were trying to force emotional connection on. It's funny because Boromir's death happens after very little screen time but has way more impact because character motivations/story were actually developed.

I just wish we got to see Galadriel as a competent military commander. It would have been nice to see why Sauron feared her and the elves.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

YES EXACTLY! Like I wanted to know why Arondir revered her so much! That's why I think my suggestion of actually showing her constantly being a good commander - but maybe at war within herself for something nobody else knew about - could've worked.

@Wildgoose-pd7um

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn One thing that I found so frustrating with her character is the lack of questions and insight. She is stuck on a raft with a man who says he was driven from his land by orcs, thus proving all her suspicions correct. She never asks him how it happened? What were their numbers? How did they try and defend themselves? They cant have her do this, because Sauron/Halbrand would have to outright lie to her. It makes her come off as an amateur.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

@@Wildgoose-pd7um I mean Sauron should be able to outright lie to her, he's supposed to be a master manipulator! But your commentary just shows how little thought they gave into naming her "commander". What IS a commander? You're right, a real general would be asking all those questions.

@Wildgoose-pd7um

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I'll have to go back and check, but i think writers made sure that Sauron/Halbrand never lied to Galadriel. So he could have the got-cha speech at the end.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

@@Wildgoose-pd7um Ahh that is an interesting thing, but...not interesting enough for me with the way they made Halbrand haha! Could'e worked though with a tighter story. Him never lying would be another gut punch to Galadriel if done right.

Recently finished watching the first season, and I agree. I didn't go in with high expectations based upon all of the criticism I had seen about it since before it was actually released, but I tried to remain open-minded. I didn't find all of the criticism to be well-founded, but the series was still disappointingly bad. The characters felt...flat...2-dimensional (at best), and there was no real story to speak of. I can't really say that the acting was bad, but the writing certainly was. As you mention in the video, there are no character arcs. On the whole, the show was...boring.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I know, that's what's sad - the biggest complaint is that it's just...flat. No life.

That sounds like a shame. I didn't bother seeing this as (a) I don't have any movie/TV streaming services, and (b) I'm not huge on epic fantasy (particularly TV or movies). Nevertheless, I always like to see fantasy and sci-fi media succeed, because then we get more of it and some of that might even appeal to me! Marketing teams touting how expensive it was rather than being specific at who it was aimed at and more details on what it would be about before release was a bit concerning, though. With some of my favourite shows, even the admittedly very flawed ones, it was usually pretty clear who they were going to be aimed at and what the tone would be from the get go. The marketing for this show gave me no particular "hook", and so I just couldn't see myself becoming interested. Sad, really, as LOTR is such a big franchise. Maybe that's the problem? Something more unassuming might have sat better? I dunno.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

I totally agree and I expressed concern over them continually talking about their large budget as if that was the only thing that mattered! Truthfully even tho this was a mediocre show, it’ll probably make a lot of money for them and be considered a success

I was having an argument / discussion with a friend of mine about this ... I didn't like the series from minute 1 (I totally LOVE the Lord of the Rings movies, saw The Return of the King 3 times at the cinemas in 2003). I told him the exact same thing you introduced this video with : The series felt SLOW as hell ! Nothing was happening other than Galadriel showcasing her skills or jumping off a boat. Even Elrond having "lunch" with Durin and his wife felt trivial at times (even though I get that their relationship was supposed to be very important because it basically sets an analogy for the whole Elves - Dwarves alliance / trust evolution). The reason why the Harfoot's storyline didn't feel connected to the main story is because they weren't involved AT ALL with the rings of power whatsoever (while in Lord of the Rings they are from minute 1 when Gandalf shows up and finds out that Bilbo still has the One Ring and then basically sends Frodo & Sam off to an adventure carrying the ring ! ).

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I didn't mind it being slow in the beginning because I think they were trying to honor the slower aspects of the books. BUT when it literally goes NOWHERE for 8 hours, it makes the entire thing completely pointless

9:29 - Perhaps he was convincing himself to continue going through with his plan to play along with Galadriel's assumptions, rather than having second-thoughts and/or considering rethinking everything he was doing? 🤔 (I have no idea; it's unclear what the characters' motivations are or aren't, because the characters almost never actually _really_ *say,* and there's not a lot of time spent just really watching or following any individual character to have who they are especially shown to us either. With some, slight exceptions. Elrond and his Dwarf friend are an exception, they actually speak their intentions and drives and such quite clearly-and I feel like we spend enough time following Nori around that we understand what makes her tick pretty well, but .. as you've said .. we really don't know exactly how that does or doesn't contribute anything to the actual plot/story.😅)

I was thinking about Galadriel. We see her as one of the ring owners in LOTR, with the quotation: 'they were all deceived, for another ring was made'. So.. Galadriel has been deceived into wearing her ring. However, in this particular story she is aware of the role that Sauron is playing in the ring making. So.. how is she being deceived into wearing the ring, which she knows is suspect? This is also why I didn't understand her last few scenes of the season, and why she is continuing the work. What might work, is that she is starting to question her own morality, and might embrace and flirt with the darkness that is in her. But is that being deceived, or is she being corrupted in some way? Also, there is no sign of this in the story, no foreshadowing to her having some internal struggle between the light and the dark. So who knows. All in all, I am amazed at how badly it was written, with all the talent and money involved in this show. It seems indeed there wasn't a clear lead or creative vision that was able to manage such a big production.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

My husband literally thought the end scene Galadrial was Sauron pretending to be Galadrial because you are right. it makes NO SENSE. Why is she still making the rings when she knows they are Sauron's work?? It just doesn't make sense.

@JACOBMILLERPETERS

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I actually thought the same thing, haha.

It’s amazing how you can make a video that’s so interesting about a show that was so terrible! I have enjoyed watching these videos far more than anything about the show itself!

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Thank you 🥰