I personally hate how the show was too scared to commit to Catelyn's flaws and made her more sympathetic regarding her relationship with Jon Snow.

@Flammewar

3 ай бұрын

It’s pretty much just one scene or am I remembering it wrong? In my opinion it was a great addition to her character because it showed that she rationally understood that her hatred against Jon is unjustified but that she is still a flawed human who can’t overlook her emotions.

@BenJack

3 ай бұрын

@@Flammewar That scene is still one of my favorite monologues in the whole show. kzread.info/dash/bejne/o5hps5KOqtisYto.htmlsi=ilW8h0MgxyRsZjJx

@DominionSorcerer

3 ай бұрын

@@Flammewar it's one scene but nothing that is said in that scene is never once again referenced in any way either before or after it, so it stands in stark contrast to everything else we see of Catelyn as a character.

@johanwestin3030

3 ай бұрын

Tyrion Syndrome

@barakesmith-washington6946

3 ай бұрын

@@DominionSorcerer In fairness a lot of the other Catelyn hate towards Jon Snow is internal monologue and memories which is a bit harder to translate to the screen.

An interviewer once asked Martin how he wrote such good female characters. And he said that women were human beings and he wrote about humans. I loved the simplicity of the answer. That he makes no distinctions when it comes to writing women or men is the key, in my opinion.

@MrZomBie775

3 ай бұрын

Yeah I think it just boils down the humanity of the characters in general, male or female, they all have their own goals, preferences, ideals, morals, yet they all feel incredibly well realized as people living through a series of events, rather than characters going through plot beats in a story

@arianewinter4266

3 ай бұрын

ITS the only right answer and IT really should BE the obvious one . . . .and then there are people complaining about him supposedly being misogynistic for portraying voilance against women . . . .in a Bad light, every time "female" traits get dismissed and women are Put down ITS a Bad Thing but apparently some people do Not have that much Reading comprehension

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Yeah and that's why I structured my video the way I did! The reasons his female characters are so good are the reason all his characters are. I also think it might be related to how good he is at writing dialog too.

@pushista9322

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, one thing he doesn't get about women though. Martin is a bit obsessed with nipples and they always visually indicate how the female character is attracted to someone. For god's sake, our nipples don't work like that 😂

@annie--sc

3 ай бұрын

I remember his response to an interview when he was asked why he made gay characters in his books: "Well, I noticed there are gay people in the world" 😂 He just writes whatever exists irl and not because of "agenda" or "wokeness" as others would call it. He even talks about the characters and events as if they were real and part of history. Every character he wrote seemed to have a soul.

I'm not tired of ASOIAF content, I'm THIRSTY

@Nyingmaba

3 ай бұрын

YEP!

@Hellsing7747

3 ай бұрын

Same here

@1siddynickhead

3 ай бұрын

Hear hear!!!

@ingainloggningsnamn

3 ай бұрын

fosho yo

@Mwezi828

3 ай бұрын

Sooooo thirsty

Daenerys being so quick to laugh and find joy and forgive was such a breath of fresh air reading the books. You can see everything went wrong with her life from the very beginning but she just has this unconquerable spirit in her that you cant help but feel inspired while reading. I always relate the quote "no one knows the violence it took to become this gentle" to her and I'm amazed how well Martin was able to translate her ruthlessness and iron will in parallel with her gentle spirit and brave heart to the readers. A masterclass in characterization!!!

@stephengrant4841

3 ай бұрын

I can't wait to see (if he can finish the series before he dies) how he develops her to the point she burns Kings Landing

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

I find Kings Landing politics in general more interesting, but I just LOVE Dany as a character. Like you said, that girl PERSERVERS through everything, and it's very cool to see.

@nobodyknows1015

3 ай бұрын

@@stephengrant4841I don’t think that will happen in the books, she’s most likely die in the long night than she is to burn down Kings landing. Again, George R.R. Martin said the books will be different than the show.

@stephengrant4841

3 ай бұрын

@@nobodyknows1015 but he's also said the bones will be the same. I think Bran will still be King, Jon will still be exiled and Dany will die after burning the city down, probably due to Tyrions influence in some ways. Ultimately he said the story will be bitter sweet, and nothing is more bitter sweet than that. They save the world, but not themselves.

@nobodyknows1015

3 ай бұрын

@@stephengrant4841 idk man I feel like she’ll be Jon’s Nissa Nissa. Jon will have to sacrifice her In order to stop the long night like in the prophecy. George said he gave them a few plot points,Dany going mad wasn’t one of them. I genuinely believe both Dany and Jon will die In the end tho. But we’ll have to wait and see until the books come out unfortunately

"Cersei is... bonkers." 😂😂😂 Perfect description. A rollercoaster ride

@thing_under_the_stairs

3 ай бұрын

And this is why I love her character so much! She's impossible to look away from, like a fire or reality TV. (Can you imagine the Real Housewives of King's Landing?!?) And she's even occasionally got a point!

@KarlKarsnark

3 ай бұрын

....and that's why we love her :) (muh Kween)

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Whenever I get to her chapter in Feasts I know it's about to be a good time. Honestly, QUEEN.

@laisphinto6372

3 ай бұрын

She is on par on some royal mothers powerhungry but despite how evil and crazy they are ,they are way better than their puppet Sons when they get into rebellious Teenage Phase and often murder their mothers

@annie--sc

3 ай бұрын

She has the best chapters fr. Very entertaining 😂

Daenerys goes through every kind of horror you can imagine a woman in that kind of world could suffer. And she's only 14 years old for most of it. And then that severely traumatised girl has to carry the responsibility of an entire nation on her back. Incredible character.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Her absolutely ruthless decisions in Storm (I think? or was it Clash? They are running together lol) were INCREDIBLE. Girl really knows how to survive.

@mykhailohohol8708

3 ай бұрын

I would argue that despite wealth, Cersei went through more horrors than Daenerys.

@mattiaachille233

2 ай бұрын

@@mykhailohohol8708 People always need to compare do they?

@DreamyAileen

2 ай бұрын

@@mykhailohohol8708 But it's still worse for Daenerys because at least Cersei deserves it

@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195

12 күн бұрын

@@mattiaachille233 In a few different SoSpakeMartins George compared Cersei and Dany "His biggest lament in splitting A Feast for Crows from A Dance with Dragons is the parallels he was drawing between Cersei and Daenerys". They're both queens in a theocracy. We're meant to compare them because George wrote it that way

Tired of ASOIAF content?? Oh you sweet summer child 😄🤣 Bookborn jumping into Westeros has been some of my favs on YT for a while now. Thanks for the hard work!!

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Oh good, I'm glad! Because it's going to keep coming and coming 😂

Cersei is actually my favourite character from the books. Not because I love her, not even because I love to hate her, but because her characterisation is so complex. We watch as everything she touches turns to ash due to her own decisions, which is so frustrating, but at the same time I can see how her life and experiences shaped her into who she is. She's a good example of how trauma can turn a person towards bitterness and desperate self-preservation. The overcoming trauma trope is a good one, but in real life trauma can also force people to adopt harmful coping mechanisms. Also, the fact that Cersei is so oblivious to her own flaws makes her fascinating to me. She jumps so many mental hurdles to avoid accountability. Being in her thoughts was wild and I loved it.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

because she's one of the most complex characters, she's also one of the most interesting. In every book, the scenes she's in are often the most interesting. There, I said it!

@pushista9322

3 ай бұрын

What trauma do you mean?

@warlordofbritannia

3 ай бұрын

Being in the mind of a narcissist is…enlightening. I can see someone who’s reading more casually actually siding with Cersei.

@youngnat

3 ай бұрын

She’s a narcissist, she was born that way, the trauma didn’t make make her like that. She went to a witch in the woods against warning and heard what was left to her own interpretation, thus the bitterness and desperate self preservation starts on her own accord.

@gregarroinalidadavich9220

3 ай бұрын

​@@pushista9322 rape and physical abuse from Robert. Hope this helps 👍

aside from motherhood theres also a spectrum of fatherhood as well ranging from Davos Seaworth and Ned Stark on one end to Tywin Lannister and Randyll Tarly at the other. to answer your question,Olenna Tyrell/Redwyne is my favorite female character. very savvy and sassy in equal measure.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Oohhh yes, I think I'm just so keyed in to motherhood that I honestly didn't even think of the spectrum of fatherhood. I may have to explore that in a future vid...

@victorhino26

3 ай бұрын

@@Bookborn that's a great idea. Looking forward to it 😄

@MrsAngua23

3 ай бұрын

Ollena Tyrell rules. The way she drags that poor bard to sing the bear and the maiden fair on the top of his lungs during her conversation with Sansa.....

As a woman who read many books and consumed a lot of media. George R R Martin female characters are some of my all-time favourites. This is what annoys me about GRRM's work. This man gives us sometimes, as readers, such pointless descriptions of someone's nipples, and dicks. However, he wrote some of today's media's most brilliant and intriguing female characters. How could a man write someone like Sansa like he was a true twelve-year-old girl? Or Cersei and her hatred for her own womanhood? Or Brienne who is a princess and a knight at the same time? And Catelyn Stark is one of the most interesting mothers and matriarchs of recent fiction history? As a woman who is trying to write her own novel, there's a lot I'm studying on GRRRM's work.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

YES YES YES!!! I said that in my first review, that I hate his descriptions of women a lot but his characters are just so well written that I can ignore it lmao

@shinymk6562

3 ай бұрын

I notice George lived describing in general. He uses a lot of food descriptions to showcase the current state of characters it's almost comical with how much he shows it. I just think Martin being an older guy is ok with being a lot more vulgar, especially because he might think medieval = 🤮 when that's not inherently true.

@ninisilver

3 ай бұрын

He likes nipples and food descriptions, mostly! But he really understands women, so I have mixed feelings about it! @@Bookborn

@ninisilver

3 ай бұрын

These POVS are written from the POV of horny men, and these men think about sex a lot? The food also shows class struggles, the opulence of the rich and the poverty of the poor. Anyway, bro likes his nipples, and pie descriptions, let him live.

@Amantducafe

3 ай бұрын

Food porn...

Arya and Sansa will forever be some of my favorite characters ever. I love how George is able to write two incredible survival stories of characters who are so different yet so resilient in their own ways.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Dude, their stories and how they mirror each other in feast wrecked me ngl

Yesss, the review of "A Feast for Crows" in a week? Can't wait

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Yes! I'm flying through it!

@oscarredfearn3492

3 ай бұрын

@@Bookbornbest book in the series imho

@WatashiMachineFullCycle

3 ай бұрын

I cannot wait to hear what she says about it, AFFC is the strongest book prose-wise in my opinion

@hann8103

3 ай бұрын

It's my favorite book in the series by quite a margin

Thanks for being a Catelyn fan like many of us, her flaws make her a more compeling character and ever since my first read I can't stop loving her character. I am really curious about your opinion on Asha Greyjoy, she is very interesting for sure.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Asha certainly makes an entrance 😭 But I am loving her scenes during the Kingmoot, super good stuff.

@MeleysRQ

3 ай бұрын

@@Bookborn glad you are enjoying her, have fun with the books! Love to follow your reads and train of thought, do not hesitate to make videos with spoilers later please.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

All my ASOIAF videos have been spoiler videos! So all my reviews include spoilers@@MeleysRQ

@rightcliquegod7653

2 ай бұрын

She's kinda ruthless though. How she treated jon snow all of his life. All of his other relatives saw him as family except for her, and in the end he always saw himself as just a snow. The first thing he did at 14 was join the night's watch and get away from the world. Damn talk about a small vicious woman.

@MeleysRQ

2 ай бұрын

@@rightcliquegod7653 yeah she can be ruthless, that is part of what makes her cool. I agree is not a good treatment but in a world where they have suffered so much due to blackfyre rebelions I can see where her indeas come from, not justified but still she allowed him to stay like, that is uncommon on itself.

As someone who read these books back in 2013, it's been really fun a refreshing to listen to someone just getting through them now. Makes me remember how much I miss these stories.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Always a good year for a reread!

I NEED YOUR FEASTS REVIEW NOW

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

😇😇

@barakesmith-washington6946

3 ай бұрын

Feast is my favorite book in the series after multiple rereads. I think Storm gets the most plaudits from the general Fantasy community but the more I learn about theories and possibilities for the rest of the story the more important and interesting Feast gets.

@joeschmo4646

3 ай бұрын

@@barakesmith-washington6946Bro that speech Septon Meribald gives about broken men gets me every time.

@thepacksurvives71

3 ай бұрын

@@joeschmo4646 The broken men speech is my favorite monologue in asoiaf

@ciandryl

3 ай бұрын

@@joeschmo4646 The BROKEN MAN MONOLOGUE!!!!

I got into ASOIAF pretty late (last year). Feels good to see there are still people discovering/being passionate about the series even though the GOT hype is long dead

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

It's kind of fun getting into it so late in some ways haha

Arianne is probably my favorite female character in ASOIAF.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

I’m just really getting to know her but I like her a lot so far

@josephbulkin9222

3 ай бұрын

Arianne is a liar and a hypocrite.

@supersamhain666

3 ай бұрын

@@josephbulkin9222and also a cool character

@josephbulkin9222

3 ай бұрын

@@supersamhain666 not really. There isn't really anything "cool" about her and the way she behaves

@IshtarNike

3 ай бұрын

​@@josephbulkin9222It's fiction. Some of the coolest characters in fiction are the villains. This is widely understood. Feel free to not like her. But it sounds like a really boring life treating everything in fiction with the same moral weight as if it happened in real life. Unclench and I promise you'll enjoy yourself more.

GRRM is just so good at making you love and hate and understand and empathize with every character on the page. We hate Cersei, but we understand where her "badness" comes from. Perhaps under a few different circumstances and even in a different environment, Cersei might have been a hero in another story. She is a mother who fears the safety of her children. A daughter who was married off to a conquering brute. And a sister whose aspirations and wants were shunned for the sake of her brothers. At at the core, she is complex, just like every character (at least every POV character) in ASoIaF. Great video!

@benguensche

3 ай бұрын

Her inner monologue is paranoia to the max

@wrestlingwithwords

3 ай бұрын

@@benguensche Yeah, true... I think there is a lot of context that makes us understand the way she is. Different character, but GRRM said that Ramsy Bolton (who is probably the most evil character) is only misunderstood. GRRM does a good job of contextualizing his characters, regardless if they are heroes or villains.

@benguensche

3 ай бұрын

@@wrestlingwithwords it would be really cool to get a ramsey POV chapter

@wrestlingwithwords

3 ай бұрын

@@benguensche that would be a wild one haha

Brienne just had me rooting for her from the get-go; she's one of my favorite characters of all time, let alone female characters. And who doesn't love Dany? I could go on, but I'd just be repeating your points. Very well said! 👏👏👏

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

SAY IT LOUDER. Brienne was my favorite since she literally showed up on page and hearing her perspective just makes me love her all the more

@pushista9322

3 ай бұрын

Ahem, many people aren't fond of Dany 😊 I mean she has an exciting character arch but it doesn't mean she's totally lovable. Personally, I have a problem with an uneducated teenager being put into a position of such power she feels like a demi-goddess and changes lives of countless people without proper government skills or counsel.

@userJUANLAD

3 ай бұрын

@@pushista9322 ahem ??? ofc some do not like dany, just as some do not like ronaldo or messi. dany is the franchise icon, putting it mildly, and has, by far the most adoration worldwide.

@pushista9322

3 ай бұрын

@@userJUANLAD Yeah, about that. Martin clearly put much more thought into his books than most people are willing to process. I guess fan adoration is okay in simpler franchises with superheroes. Not here though. Martin's words - every villain is a hero in his own story. So, we get multiple stories woven into one, when they label each other villains, and often it's not completely unfounded. Now, the TV show is just a big commercial for some characters at the expense of the others. And the audience generally doesn't care about the complexity of politics and economics if the character occasionally shows her tits or wields his blade formidably. The main question is, what does it say about our real world? About our societies, elections, about democracy in general. I'm not an American btw, this applies to any country. People have all the information in the books, people have hundreds of hours of author's interviews, yet they prefer to stick to their original perception from the TV show and never ever question or develop it. Are they really capable of making decisions about the future of their countries? That's a disturbing question that arises with simple "adoration" argument.

@rai2423

3 ай бұрын

@@pushista9322Most of the people put in power in that world are teenagers though….

Asha Greyjoy is another one of my absolute favorites!!

@Ironcorgi2

3 ай бұрын

I like her speech at the kingsmoot

Your enthusiasm for this series is bringing back the feelings I when I first read it 10+ years ago, so glad you're enjoying your journey!

Cersei is my favorite! Martin is a master at making character perspectives understandable or believable even if we don’t condone their choices. Great video!

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

It's been really interesting to see how she's changed from my perception of her outside her head to suddenly being in her head

having been a fan since 90's, Dany stands out as one of best all time, so so so unique. always thought she and a few others would be impossible to adapt live action, but Emilia proved me wrong in some style. made her most beloved on the entire planet. very thankful. yeh, GRRM was flexing and then some with Daenerys ! I'm still in awe.

in my opinion, Dany's greatness is truly seen, in the fact someone as incredible and unique as Tyrion, he is only the second most unique character in the franchise. There is not a single character in all of fiction like Daenerys.

Keep the content flowing like Arbor Gold!

I think George likes writing the female characters in this series cause they have more range. While we have a few different men they all seem to be either moral to a fault or sneaky to a fault, most the later. With every man you have to guess all the time are they just playing the game or are they being true. the Women have agendas but in every case you know they are loyal to something or someone other then themselves. even Sansa who starts our very self centered has a much broader arch as the story moves on. Really this entire series is about the relationships and behind the scenes work being put in by the ladies. I dig it. I wish/hope that George will find a way to finish it off.. my only worry is the reaction to the TV show soured him from writing the last books.

@wwanca3771

3 ай бұрын

sansa wasn’t self centered she was a child in a horrible abusive situation i don’t know what do you want from her

@danielcoleman2378

3 ай бұрын

@@wwanca3771 all children are self centered. It’s part of growing up. All I’m saying is when the story started she was worried about herself over her family. As the story progresses she learns there is more to life. This is a good thing please don’t think I am calling her out. Just pointing out her growth. Same with Aria. You don’t get the same growth with most the male characters

Believe me Bookborn, with how long she people have been waiting for Winds, the more ASOIAF videos you release, the more or thirst is quenched.

I read ASOIAF probably 10 years ago and I still love hearing you talk about the books. Keep it up!

I’m a dude, but Dany is my favourite POV character (her and then Tyrion). Dany is just so well written and fascinating, especially since there’s all of this Valyrian magic dreams and history surrounding her character. It just makes her so interesting. I love how her character is reacting and learning to deal with that whole plot point from the books, it’s a lot more believable and well done than it was on the show.

9:08 - okay nice to meet you. Cercei is among my favorite characters, her chapters were the highlight of the Feast for me. I'd really want to sit down with her and drink some wine and talk shit all day and listen to her perspective, idk but her rants are very interesting. Also it doesn't hurt that she's one of the most beautiful women in Wetseros

First things first: I love how you say Cersey's name. It reminds me of Sissy, the empress of Austria, a truly beautiful woman we know almost nothing about. My name is similar and when I was little people would call me that, that's why it sounds sweet and innocent to me. And I am reminded how she is Jamie's "sweet sister", his love for her and the big contrast of realizing she is not faithful to him. I even say the name in my mind while I read the way you say it after hearing you in one of your previous videos. Also I am half way through the Feast (but I've read it two before) so I enjoyed this video so much and can't wait for the next one!

loveee seeing asoiaf deep dives from you!! for how popular the show/books are, it feels like there's a real lack of videos analyzing the characters the way you do, so it's always nice to get new videos

I really appreciate your ASOIAF phase! I'm a late reader as well even though I know pretty much all the spoilers from the TV show and wiki pages. It only allows me to read peacefully knowing who and when will die and developing my emotions accordingly. Also, knowing spoilers allows to savour small details, nature descriptions, dialogue etc. There are so many layers. And I'm also glad I bought Dunk and Egg book because of your channel! I saw people commenting here how Dunk and Egg are great to read before Feast for crows, and that's exactly where I am in my journey (a few chapters into it). Then I see that sweet cover of your Dunk and Egg video and realise I so need to read it. I'm two thirds through it now, and it's different in many ways compared to the main series, but an amazing addition to it!

loving all of your ASOIAF content, would Really love some deeper dives!

Just discovered your channel and i am also about 32% through FFC on my first read. I love ASOIF

Love your reviews! Glad you chose asoiaf. I think you can pronounce Cersei however you want.

I thought the name "Cersei" was referencing the Greek goddess "Circe" and I've always pronounced that "Sir-SEE", so I pronounced Cersei the same way. I also read Brienne's inner monologue a lot more closely than I normally would a female character's pining over an unattainable, handsome male. Maybe it's because of Brienne's masculine story arc OR maybe it's that a strong character (whatever the gender) is revealed to have such a vulnerable and sensitive soul.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Ok so SAME that's why I call her that lmaooo I'm glad we are on the same wavelength. and YES, I think it is such a great contrast to her tough exterior that she really is such a vulnerable person who is literally trying her hardest to be and do good

@KaiHung-wv3ul

3 ай бұрын

@@Bookborn Speaking of pronounciations Tyrion is apparently supposed to be pronounced "Tie-ri-on" and Brienne "Bri-EEn" . And I refuse to accept this.(Why, George?)

@brendanmetivier511

21 күн бұрын

​@KaiHung-wv3ul I just looked up some interviews with george, and he pronounced Tyrion and Brienne the same way the show does.

@KaiHung-wv3ul

21 күн бұрын

@@brendanmetivier511 Really, because I was mostly going off the audiobooks.

@brendanmetivier511

21 күн бұрын

@@KaiHung-wv3ul Oh I gotcha. The audio books are narrated by Roy Dotrice, I don't think he had any pronunciation guidelines so he says some things wrong. A weird pronunciation that George actually does his he says "dothraki" like "dothrak-eye"

I was watching some of her other videos when that one came out. lol I actually found that channel last night,just after finishing reading " Tales of Dunk and Egg"

I love the content of ASOIF, please continue. I hope you make more videos of the saga❤

I know you already have Feast and later Dance on your plate, but I always recommend The Hedge Knight, a shorter novella series by GRRM that takes place about 100 years before the main series. It’s a lot less complex in terms of plot, but the characters and their interactions are so incredibly charming and while it has its dark moments it’s much more wholesome (and shorter, there’s only three so far and they’re much smaller books with only 1 POV)

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

I’ve written a review on this one! I loved it!

Just found your channel recently. I really enjoy your videos. I’m a huge ASOIF fan so I will never be tired of you talking about those books! Thank you 🙏

i absolutely love your asoiaf videos. imagine my delight when you posted this :)

Really looking forward to your Feast/Dance reviews! I think you'll like them more than most because you're character heavy in how much you enjoy books - And the character work in those are excellent in my opinion.

I literally can not get enough of ur ASOIAF content!!!! Would love more 😅

Your videos are always top notch 👌 thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts! Great video, as always!!!

I love your ASOIAF videos!

Off topic but I've started malazan because of your reviews. I suppose I'm going to have to start song of ice and fire. Thanks!

I really Like Asha Greyjoy too. She's a bad ass with a good head on her shoulders who's also pretty hilarious

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

I love them all tbh well ok I don’t love Cersei as a person but I do as a character 🤣

@Texans23

3 ай бұрын

Agreed! She's another one who has some LOL moments @@Bookborn

@thing_under_the_stairs

3 ай бұрын

Asha's another personal fave of mine! I don't know if I want to hang out with her and see if she'll teach this short greenlander to throw axes like an expert, or ask her out for a date of axe throwing and bad jokes about siblings, but she's such a fun character.

Keep the content up. Youre fast becomung one of my top GOT/Asoiaf youtuber in terms of analysis. More blessings to you and your family! ❤❤❤

I happen to be reading the series for the first time right now as well - I'm in the final 200 pages or so of ASOS. I love hearing your takes since it's your first time through not just the books, but the story as a whole. I also have mad respect for your reasons for not watching the show. Keep coming with the intelligent analysis and sincere reactions to ASOIAF!!

I like your videos. You seem like a real person who's chill and I like hearing your POV on some of this stuff. Usually the only person I see give a balanced commentary on the feminism in asoif is Preston, so it's cool to see more creators discussing it.

Brienne is fantastic. Saw this interesting analysis about how "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" represents Westerosi patriarchy and has some very interesting connections to Brienne's story. Very much worth looking into once you've finished Feast.

@swayback7375

3 ай бұрын

Here on KZread?

@thehalfbloodserb

3 ай бұрын

​@swayback7375 Not sure which one OP is referring to but Preston Jacobs did a Brienne series exploring this idea on KZread, highly recommend it

Another great video!!!!

One of my favorite ASOIAF characters is Olenna Tyrell (I hope I spelt that right). She never got a pov chapter, and she's really only present for a few chapters I think, but she is interesting. And funny. I like that she's a sassy grandma.

Found this channel yesterday due to ASOIAF content, after many many years of a drought of my energy to engage in the series, and now i'm rereading them because of you. Thanks for the content! Edit: I was totally unaware that Catelyn was widely disliked. I knew people were split but I think she's awesome. I completely agree with your breakdowns of most characters. I have to stop myself from writing essay length comments about a bunch of my thoughts on characters and stuff, but had to post this one...And maybe a Stannis one when the time is right.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

lmao it's funny because I have never been Team Stannis so I need to read your essay on him (although I'll admit I feel differently about him after Feasts, which is funny, since he doesn't even appear in that book)

@salvatorenoth2489

3 ай бұрын

That is how it goes, I think lmao. I can't wait to hear your thoughts and review!@@Bookborn

Arya is the GOAT female character to me. Her ideas of "right" vs "wrong" for such a young person who is entitled by being the daughter of a lord.... Great stuff.

Great analysis of brienne, she’s recently jumped the onion knight in my favorite character list

Never tired. It took about 3 reads for AFFC to become my favorite book of the series. Phenomenal book. Keep it coming. Fantastic content

Loved it but I hope there’s a part two.

Can't wait for your AFFC review. In retrospect, it's my favorite in the series. That book made westeros really feel like a real place to me, taking it to whole other level than the first three had done.

Daenerys’s story is legitimately one of the best I’ve ever read of a well intentioned leader compromising and losing everything (at least, as of where the books are right now). Genuinely one of the greatest individual stories in all of fiction imo.

Loving your vids on ASOIAF. I was busy defending Cat on Reddit last night lol

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Truly doing the important work, this cat stan thanks you 🙏

Love the channel!

Top TIER clips in the video. Truly the best. I mean I watched the video on mute so I assume you're saying that he's bad at writing female characters, but I can't deny the clips are excellent.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Truly the video wouldn't have been worth making without those clips 😔

A lot of the Catelyn hate comes from the love a lot of fans have towards Jon. It's a similar story to people who love Arya and hate Sansa. There are pockets of the fandom who are just misogynists and don't understand the story. There are people who read this story and tune out all of the messages to only look at the violence and conflict. Holding the female characters to this unobtainable moral purity, their flaws aren't marks of a good character to these types, just excuses as to hate them.

I love your channel!!!

There are countless amazing female side characters as well that I think deserves the spotlight too. We all know by this point that POVs like Cat, Cersei(as well as one of my personal favorites: Asha Greyjoy) are amazing, but then we also have some absolute banger scenes with characters like Genna and Barbrey coming up and everything that the Queen of Thorns touches is dialogue gold.

In the 70s (I think) there was a big debate amongst feminist theory circles on how equality could be achieved. Essentially, there were two main camps. One side said that women should venture into male dominated fields and adhere to the value system the patriarchy promotes (violence = good, valuable; nurturing = bad, unpaid). The other said that women should embrace nurturing and communal roles and use those to bring about equality. Specifically, they talked about mothers being able to influence their children to become better than their fathers. Obviously, those two sides look mutually exclusive and both have up- and downsides, though nowadays the synthesis is sort of the "accepted" approach (as if feminism wasn't such a broad thing that multiple interpretations could exist). Why do I say all this? Brienne and Catelyn - two characters that interact and complement each other. One following "male" values, doing "a man's work", the other using her role as mother to influence others into foregoing senseless death. I really can't see a world in which this is a coincidence - GRRM has read a lot of feminist theory.

Just finished Feast for Crows and I kinda hated reading Cersei's chapters. Not because they were bad, or even because I don't like Cersei, rather I hated it because Cersei was so well written. She was extremely narcissistic (which made it worse) but she was kinda like Littlefinger if he couldn't scheme to save his life. Every single Cersei chapter saw her blaming others, calling everyone incompetent, and painting herself as the woman version of Tywin. It was exactly how we imagined her thoughts would be, and it made it painful to read. I do agree with everything you said about her, Cersei is an amazing character, I just wish we could've got a different Kings Landing perspective alongside Cersei (like how Sansa's chapters kinda complimented Tyrions in Clash, or how Jaime's later chapters complimented Brianne's in Feast).

Brienne’s chapters in Feast are some of the best in the entire series. You are in for a treat! And I cannot wait for your reaction to Dance, and the series as a whole. Thank you for this wonderful content!

@swayback7375

3 ай бұрын

Yea I wasn’t a fan of her or Jamie but warmed to them both as I read it. Rereading them I have trouble not liking them both as characters despite not liking them personally their chapters are great. Opposite of Davos for me, he’s such a hero and hood guy, I love him and his character and goals, I don’t like his chapters much at all

@Ironcorgi2

3 ай бұрын

Briennes chapters had the broken man speech which is practically a thesis of the series

Cersei as a train wreck in slow motion is the exact description I’ve used in the past, haha 😂 It’s one the best examples I’ve ever seen of the destructive nature of arrogance as a coping mechanism for trauma. It’s a brilliant take on a villain, because like in real life (and unlike most fantasy) this approach to social and political interactions is, very ironically, quite stupid and self-defeating. While this is obviously her defining feature, her love for her kids (as narcissistic as it is) also helps make her relatable to the reader. I agree that Martin’s varied takes on motherhood is one of the best aspects of his character work. I love how it brings out the best and worst in his female characters, and how this impacts their kids in a variety of ways! Side note: loved the throwback to your first video, as that was the first of yours that I ever watched! Thanks for the interesting work you do, I love how it connects random people on the internet who share a love of fantasy 👍

I love all this content. Do you think you'll do any super deep spoilery type videos once you finish Dance of Dragons? I'm also working my way through Feast (probably my 8th or 9th time) and there's just layers on layers in these books. Things that get mentioned that you only find out 2 books later why something minor happened. It doesn't affect the book or plot in any way, but it happened and there was a deeper reason for it. As a quick non-spoiler example, 3 different people have a vision of the red wedding before it happens, and yet, it's a complete surprise when it happens. There's hundreds of things like that. I've forgotten more than I remember of them, so re-reading is always fun when those old connections come back and occasionally a new one is figured out! I just finished reading about Arya's journey to Bravos and there's several great examples of what I'm talking about in that chapter :)

What is SO smart imo abt Brienne two love interests is how they represent entirely different themes within the story. We can read her infatuation with Renly almost like Sansa’s with Loris: surface level honor. And then SPOILERS obviously Jaime means the exact opposite thing. Surface level cruelty+internal honor. She’s not just pining over men-thru her romantic interests she is changing and learning abt the world she exists inside

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

SO well stated thank you

As a man I love the way Grr Martin writes female characters,however my female friends, as well as my wife, don't want to read ASOIAF . They think they are using female characters only as a plot device to depict “ violence” against them(women). But in the book series,they are complete characters with their own agency and not only as objects of violence to move the plot forward. However,I can understand where they are coming from. As a minority, if I were to have to read a long running book series taking place in a fictional world where people of colors were mistreated,I think I could have the same feeling as some women have about ASOIAF/GOT. I should make my wife read "Dunk and Egg"

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Tbh I didn’t read ASOIAF for so long for this very reason. It sucks it has that reputation because once I started reading it I realized that rep is totally wrong for the books. I’m so glad I had someone I trusted enough to believe and give it a chance

@Hellsing7747

3 ай бұрын

I'm glad you did give it a chance. Hopefully,my wife and my female friends will change their minds about the book series. But for now, I'm going to stop begging them to read it. At least,for now... lol

@bobshoby

3 ай бұрын

I think the show poisoned that well to a pretty substantial extent. Anyone who saw the tv show which revelled in objectifying and mistreating women would draw negative conclusions about the source material.

@Hellsing7747

3 ай бұрын

​@bobshoby I think you might be right. Even if the show showed us as well that women could be just as strong and important than men.

I’ve loved your song of ice and fire content. I felt a bit bad watching your view count on these videos versus other ones. These books are so famous that they have a lot of readers so videos about them seem to be an order of magnitude more watched. It makes me want to check out more fantasy series.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

My Sanderson videos get a lot more views too, it’s ok, it’s just the nature of KZread/reading!

@HyperFocusMarshmallow

3 ай бұрын

@@Bookborn Well that’s something at least 😊 I’ll definitely check out some of the other videos to look for some series that might be worth picking up.

Ugh, I love this video so much. There are so many good characters that are so complex. Even if I hate them I love them 😂

Hey Bookborn, I know you're unlikely to watch the entire Game of Thrones TV show, but do you think you'd watch maybe the first season or so and make a video about your thoughts on the adaptation, the casting, changes from the books etc? I think that would be pretty interesting.

a beautiful AND smart girl talking on youtube about ASOIAF...? subscribed, lol.

Yeah, happy booktube birthday! Yes yes they are! Like the male characters they have inner lives full of struggle, complex day to day, life just NOT turning out the way anyone conventional might have expected - especially Brienne, who is sitting on so much conflict about her own role in life and how she does not seem to fit that at one point she just breaks down - well not to be spoiler -y but confession is good for the soul, she seems better for a little after that until she comes face to face with a conflict of her knightly values: truth or protection of the innocent!

Once you've read all the ASOIAF books, I highly recommend KZreadr Preston Jacobs' analysis series about Brienne and gender. I consume a lot of theory/analysis content, and that one is far and away my favorite so far.

Please keep doing A Song 🎶 of Ice and Fire content. It just never gets old.

I strongly recommend checking out some of GRRM's other stories: Nightflyers, song for Lya, dying if the light and Starlady are not only excellent but have amazing women characters. Fevre dream and men of graywater station are also fantastic reads.

We are not tired of your ASOIAF content 🔥

Yes. Dany and Catelyn are my fav characters, and Cersei's chapters were such a treat to read.

If I needed a knight from Westeros for a champion, I'd pick Brienne. Great video, Bookborn!

@Bookborn

2 ай бұрын

I'd pick Brienne for almost any reason for any thing, I'd love to be her friend lol

Great video

If you are halfway through Feast you are about halfway through Brienne's story. It will be interesting to see how your take evolves when you finish the book. I think she represents a very specific exploration into gender roles within societies and settings that Martin has used in other works. I am curious to see where he takes it in Winds, if it ever comes out.

There's another series that I love called the beginning after the end, at one point you meet a "simple cook" and I always picture brienne as her

I'd like to hear your breakdowns of the other female characters. I love how Martin writes them morally ambiguous and gives them the same treatment he would a male character. I read Feast not long after its release and it was my least favorite. I hadn't gone back because I wanted to wait until he finished asoiaf

Westeros Era! Excellent, Swifty.

one of my favorite parts in all of game of thrones was when Catelyn called on all those bannermen in the inn. even in the show that part gives me goosebumps.

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

Catelyn is amazing I’ll say it

Wish to see Arianne get mentioned because she is one of my favourite characters. I like Asha Greyjoy too. Melissndre is interesting and still very mysterious character. It's been years since i read those books. I am reading a bunch of other stuff by women authors at the moment.

Boy our girl is in for quite the shakeup coming up. I am here for it. Woof.

Def not tired of ASOIAF content. We love it

I think the main reason why people hate catelyn so much is they see her letting Jaime go as the catalyst for the red wedding or something to that effect. Which is the unfortunate result of people not understanding that the red wedding was the result of compounding bad decisions made by a lot of people in Robs camp, not only Catelyn . In fact some of those decisions were made by Rob himself! Sending Theon to treat with Balon Greyjoy and breaking his oath with the Freys etc. IMO Rob’s end was sealed when he lost the north to the iron born invasion. I always thought that that event solidified the freys and boltons to hardcore betray him and conspire with Tywin

Tired of your asoiaf content?! Never! I’m greatly enjoying watching your journey with them

The moment you said you didn't finish all books yet I just thought "but then Brienne, Alayne and Dany won't be covered as much as they might have. how sad" cause I like their situations yet to come soooo much (especially Brienne+Alayne)

I can't wait for your Catelyn video! I know it will be persuasive and well argumented. I also know I won't be able to budge 🙂 I just...can't...with her. Still, looking forward to the video!

@Bookborn

3 ай бұрын

I love that for all of us honestly like I refuse to budge too even when I hear good arguments against her 🤣

Like your point about ASOIF as an exploration of motherhood. I always noticed an exploration of power and in particular how women wield power.

@thenablade858

3 ай бұрын

It’s very interesting to see Catelyn, Cersei and Daenerys’ different approaches to motherhood. Cersei and Daenerys are direct parallels in rulership, but Catelyn’s most redeemable traits are her loyalty and extreme protectiveness of her children. Hence Lady Stoneheart.

Need that AFFC video 🙏