Local fear monster discovers dysphoria

@TallHallyHiatus

10 ай бұрын

too relatable

@TonyToed

9 ай бұрын

mecore

@5crowsinatrenchcoat

8 ай бұрын

same fr

God, if this conversation happened when Jon just got out of the coma he would have been so much more able to understand. It's like Helen's showing him a preview of what's going to happen to him.

@chrissy1388

2 жыл бұрын

ikr this conversation's so fricken cool!!! I feel like he rejected Helen so strongly cause he hated how much he could relate to what she was saying

@ianflowforever

2 жыл бұрын

Ohhhh you could argue it already was happening to him, and deep down... he knew. Its why he rejects Helen's seeking of support. To reply sincerely he'd have to acknowledge the changes, to acknowledge what he's already doing to the statement givers. But for now, he's able to remain in denial, to hide from it. And Helen's just a grisly reminder. This interpretation i have is what makes me go "aaaaa it could have been different 😭"

@maxschechter4156

2 жыл бұрын

On the other hand, by the time he wakes up, she’s pretty much already gone. And after the season 4 finale, she’s even worse

@pyrosianheir

2 жыл бұрын

@@maxschechter4156 but would she have been too far gone when he woke up if he hadn't outright rejected an attempt to reach out right there?

@maxschechter4156

2 жыл бұрын

@@pyrosianheir Maybe, maybe not. We’ll never know

Helen is so good because she legitimately had ME trusting her, she truly is the embodiment of lies

@Cheshire5174

Жыл бұрын

perhaps thats what happened, but I believe that maybe becoming Helen kinda made the Distortion more human. it was Micheal for a long time, it had time to put aside his humanity. it regains its humanity, but then is treated like a monster by the person it thought it could trust. thats why Helen began to sound a lot like Micheal.

@jennifervan75

10 ай бұрын

According to the wiki she's a bit of a tori...that made me distrust her immediately lmao

@KiraNightshade

9 ай бұрын

​@@Cheshire5174She sounds more human here. This really hurts. I felt bad for her at the time, but it really hurts to see Jon pushing her away and then having others do the same to him later. It's like my dude, what if you'd tried to understand? But at that point he didn't need to feed yet.

@table2.0

8 ай бұрын

@@jennifervan75XD

@etmist

5 ай бұрын

honestly i think if he would have talked to her here he could have probably kept her grounded, i think being forced to navigate being an avatar without a support system is what led to her ultimately becoming more like michael

Helens transformation across the series really messed with me, how her voice became more echoey and distorted over time, her sense of humour and morals more darker, it made me wish Jon had done more in this scene. But with her final story, we were given the crushing realization that perhaps even this scene with Distorted Helen at her most seemingly vulnerable and human was still just an act to reel people in. What a brilliant character and a great fan animatic to go with it!

The thing that confuses me the most about this scene is that Helen is later known for manipulating Jon, she is also part of the spiral, but at the same time this conversation feels so genuine. Is she twisting the truth for both Jon and us as listeners? We may never really know, which makes the fear of the spiral feel really real. Great art!!

@princessadrigirl6774

Жыл бұрын

Every good deception has truth in it too. I’d venture to say she was being honest, but there was absolutely an agenda as well. With Helen/Michael there always is

@estefaniasorando4409

6 ай бұрын

I do think she was being honest, to an extent. The distortion was never meant to be somethings with a Face and a Name, but it looks like what it takes does affect it. Even Season 5 Helen didn't feel 100% like Michael, not really. I think the Distortion is genuinely confused, but I think is more from the sudden dip into humanity. Not understanding why it's very nature didn't feel right, and The Archivist was the only one who might have answers because, well, he helped Helen. In the end of the day, The Distortion was always meant to not make sense

I kinda just imagined Helen standing in her doorway throughout this conversation. This is much better.

@chrissy1388

2 жыл бұрын

ty! yeah that definitely wouldn't be a very fun animatic :)

Tma s5 spoilers The fact that Helen is canonically manipulating Jon in most of their interactions makes this scene so heart wrenching. Like was she just using him or actually trying to empathize? We'll never really know

@FingerLickinEvilToTheBone

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t think she knows either. She’s an entity of the spiral. It just makes it worse.

@yournerdking218

2 жыл бұрын

Helen can't lie right she can only omitt the truth So Helen might actually be pulling away like dasy

@indridhartley1504

2 жыл бұрын

@@yournerdking218 I mean she can in fact lie she just prefers to twist the truth and her words and make you second guess reality.

@Gnolletariat

Жыл бұрын

I think she says at some point in season five that had John been kinder here, she maybe could have been different. Makes me think this was actually her.

@rileyrose5166

Жыл бұрын

Looking back and comparing it to Helen's future interactions, I think so. After all, look at how Jon changed in s4 alone. Jon by the end of season 4 was just as Helen is now; distraught with her position as monster, and wishes she could be different. He had Martin and his own firm beliefs to keep him tethered; Helen had no one to do that. Perhaps Jon could've. Perhaps Helen becoming a full fledged monster was inevitable. But we'll never know.

I think I get why she “didn’t like it”. The last thing Michael Shelley felt was anger towards Gertrude, so when the spiral became ‘him’ it enjoyed hurting ppl. Later the anger of Michael Shelley became to much it sorta started straying on its own; leading to the spiral discarding him for a more balanced character which is Helen. However Helen didn’t feel the anger Mike felt(in fact she probably was still feeling a bit good after talking to Jon) so now that the spiral became ‘her’ it felt ‘guilt’ instead of the joy it got when it was Michael. I believe if Jon helped it understand what it was feeling then maybe he could’ve got it in their side or to atleast stop trapping ppl in corridors…

@TheBluestflamingos

Жыл бұрын

But at the same time, trapping people in corridors is how Helen (and apparently Michael) feed. Spoilers Ahead for Season 4 and 5: In season 4, one of the themes that continues to be featured is the ethics and inevitability of consumption, explored through Jon. As the series went on, Jon became less human and more... Other. He went from human, to avatar, to the Beholder of All Things, to the Center of the Eye. There's a lot gained and lost throughout that process. One he gains is a dependence on the statements. He found himself getting weaker when he didn't do them. He found he craved some more than others. Eventually he needed more than dusty old papers from the archive so he gave in to his hunger and consumed statements directly from people, putting them through an extremely traumatic experience to keep himself healthy, powerful, and alive. And when the other members of the Archive stopped him from feeding in this way, it make him hungry and restless, weaker in mind and body. Helen is probably the same with the corridors. If she stops trapping people, she'll starve. And if she is like Jon, than her hunger can only grow. Thats the grand tragedy of this whole thing. At best your options are hurt and kill to survive and thrive, or die trying to cling to your last shreads of human. There is no truely happy ending.

@TheBluestflamingos

Жыл бұрын

Sorry, that was an epic wall of text. Just had a lot to say, I guess.

@imalittlelady

Жыл бұрын

@@TheBluestflamingos I wrote this comment while listening to the podcast, so I hadn’t really gotten to understanding the ‘feeding’ yet. I do now thu, and yea I think she’d still feed which would probably lead her to go against em anyways, maybe this whole scene was just to display the irony of Jon distaste for Helen for that, only for him to end up like her and seek her out(to ask her if the web’s controlling him) I think the moral of the story is to not judge someone b4 u put urself in their shoes.

@kaiburrus3190

4 ай бұрын

@@TheBluestflamingos Ethical Avatar: Open up a year round haunted house and advertise it's ability to have mind bending reality altering halls. People go in and probably have fun for a while (specifically spiral though I can't see people having fun with many other fears) Keep them just long enough that they are outright terrified. Then let em go. Catch and Release style! Sure many avatars just taunt people to death but like... Maybe that's just cause 20$ is more than 20 cents and they can't just hunt *that* many people. But if they are coming to you well... And there might be precedence for this. Mr. Bone Turners body horror Gym! Sure they are more permanent residents but they did come willingly.

I love how Jon knows it’s helan because she’s the only one who knocks. And the reason no one knocks is because after “a guest for mister spider” he doesn’t want people to knock

@Nikowo1610

6 ай бұрын

I AM THE ONE WHO KNOCKS

@Nikowo1610

6 ай бұрын

This truly was the moment that Helen became The Distortion

This conversation always felt genuine to me. There’s a long period of time between seasons 3 and 4, and it’s stated Helen made a choice between humanity and survival at some point. She was definitely rotten at the end, but here? I think she was being honest

@kaiburrus3190

4 ай бұрын

Nahh Corruption avatars get rotten... She got *twisted*.

I can't help but wonder how Helen would've turned out if Jon had been able to find a touch more trust in this one. If he'd been able to accept her as "Helen." Perhaps not the one he knew, but a new one born from her. Idk. She still might have ultimately ended up the way she did in the main story, but there's no real way to know.

HELEN also you draw hands so well!

@chrissy1388

2 жыл бұрын

tysm! I really needed that right now as the struggle of hand drawing continues :)

What I love about this conversation in the comments section is that this exactly is what the spiral wants. This level of distrust that we all have for helen. But not helen itself but what helen represents. She genuinely did want jons help to learn who she is but the problem is that no matter what there probably wouldnt have been a future where she didnt end up giving in to what the spiral is and what it means to be the distortion

*spoilers* I think people who have seen S5 need to remember that Helen or rather the nature of the distortion is to be a bad friend, to worry and wonder if a friendship is true or not I don't think "helen" was doing anything but trying to convince John to let his guard down around her so she can later stab him in the back. In the long run john made the right call in this moment by treating her with suspicion and untrust. But the way to get John to trust you is to prove you are useful to him that's why her trapping Jared in S4 made him open up and not her attempt at empathy here because John is arrogant in his suffering he truly believes no one can understand him.

@maxschechter4156

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe by then, but here… she feels really sincere. It’s different from how she feels in season 4. She talks about a point where she chose to leave her humanity behind, like Jon. But while he had an anchor to keep his humanity, Helen didn’t. Part of me wonders what would have happened if Jon actually listened to her here. It may have made her corruption and eventual death more tragic.

@DeadKarr

2 жыл бұрын

@@maxschechter4156 that's to assume the distortion "corrupted" hellen classic and didn't just consume her and kill her and steal her existence similar to the not them but the story is up to heavy interpretation no ones ideas of what has never been explained has any more validly than anyone else.

@maxschechter4156

2 жыл бұрын

@@DeadKarr With the way Micheal says he became the Distortion, it’s weird because the Spiral is the weirdest of all of them, as it is meant to drive you mad. BUT. It also says that Helen made a choice to give up her humanity. Although this here is definitely the most genuine we hear her, aside from maybe the first time we see her.

@DeadKarr

2 жыл бұрын

@@maxschechter4156 As they said in season five the distortion never truly lies never out right tells falsehoods just bends the truth so it could be that she feels this way genuinely but also being a form of the distortion uses those feelings to bend jon and the others with guilt and making them feel sorry for her. but as you said the spiral is the fear of confusion lost senses and lies of the mind who knows what the goals of things that confuse us into telling ourselves lies we wish to believe are

@ari638

2 жыл бұрын

I know Helen said she was manipulating him the whole time and everything, I don't think that's true. There's an adjustment period to every new change and by my interpretation Helen and Michael are half human half spiral, so I think for a good part of her debut she was grappling with balancing the human and inhuman parts of her, like Jon was. Sure it's in her nature to tend more towards inhuman in the end, but I think this was the genuine innocent confusion of a newborn creature here

Here is my theory, I don't think the distortion is like the archivist, they are not an avatar that is, a person channeling a fear, but rather they are more like the not them, execept that rather then seemleslys replacing someone they consumed, they make their dammnest to convince others they are that person. This scene isn't Helen asking Jon for help, it's the distortion trying to convince Jon that they are like him, that they are a friend. My main reason for this theory is that Jon still never trusted distortion Helen even after the change, at that point if they were the same, if they really were Helen, he would "Know". And it would make sense for a monster of the Spiral, of deception, to be such a good liar, it's their thing, with that bing said I also don't thing the distortion has complete control over what form it takes, I think what Gertrude did to Michael kinda bound them to person, in hopes of turnning the corridors from a place of power into an Avatar, a bit of a down-grade, sort of like how the not-them was bound to the table through the web. So when Helen got consumed by the spiral, after being marked by the eye (giving a statement), it was a prime replacement for Michael, which the Spiral took advantage of, so the whole "Michael trying to kill Jon and being saved by Helen" was all the distortion subconciously building a scene to make Helen appear trustworthy, by taking someone Jon saw as a human once.

@absurdus7945

Жыл бұрын

For me I think they ARE that person just jumbled up with the DISTORTION to the point where there’s no point of making a distinction between the two like how rn Helen is the distortion and the distortion is Helen just not the same one as before I always hated how Jon treated Helen as a Notthem! Because she wasn’t wearing a face that wasn’t hers she’s twisted up with in other identities like Helen was also Michael and she’s was also the distortion who was Michael but not the same Michael as before and Helen is Helen just not the same and Helen is the the distortion just not the same as Michaels or the one before him

@cosmiconni-chan2982

3 ай бұрын

​@@absurdus7945Honestly, Same. Would have been nice to see Jon and Helen fucking around each other, imagine all the pranks you could get away with if your homie can teleport. But alas, TMA is a tragedy at it's core, and there's always AO3 for that type of Crack.

Poor Helen what would've happened if Jon did do more to help her?

@ahsoka8938

2 жыл бұрын

What could he have done? The spiral had her in it’s sights and she was ultimately the one who went through the door in the end.

@amphitritemists4595

2 жыл бұрын

@@ahsoka8938 youre right they were both doomed from the start

@KenKen3593

2 жыл бұрын

Bad things -echoing laughter-

@cosmiconni-chan2982

3 ай бұрын

Polycule? Monster freindship? TMA: Jon x Helen edition? Or quite possibly, Elias Death Speedrun Any%. We may never know....

I just listened to MAG 187 (Checking Out) for the first time yesterday and GOD watching this animation after listening to that gives it so much meaning. like, was Helen just lying this whole time??????

@pingas2467

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, they probably were lying

i wonder if helen was being genuine here? or if it was all a long con. I wonder if, had Jon been friendly with her, she'd have been at least more up front about the negative aspects of being friends with her? retained some of Helen's humanity? who knows. It was probably all fake.

Can anyone tell me what type of clothing is Helen wearing, that look fancy.

@chrissy1388

2 жыл бұрын

I think I was going for a fancy suit top and bow thing on her neck :)

i know that later on Helen is known for manipulation something that people forget is that the distortion came about from betrayal, Michael got betrayed by gertrude and became the distortion, and i think in this scene Helen might've been trying to connect with Jon. hell if she did she mightve been able to be saved from the distortion, but jon wanting nothing to do with her even when she came to him for help couldve been what solidified her into the distortion. i think that was Helens "betrayal". of course i could be entirely wrong, just my own theory.

I always think that had Jon being a little less of a douchebag maybe Helen would have gone in another direction.