"Gandalf could've easily returned with Radagast, Saurman, Galadriel and a few houndret elves" Lol, guess what happens in the books

Can confirm the barrel section is basically a video game level. The LEGO Hobbit game had it and they literally didn't have to change ANYTHING to make it be amongst the top 3 levels in that game.

@GritterTheBuckethead

11 ай бұрын

Was never a fan of the LEGO Hobbit game, LEGO LotR was far superior.

@wfb.subtraktor311

11 ай бұрын

@@GritterTheBuckethead couldn't tell, I played it cause it was free on steam and I figured I might as well. Haven't played LEGO LotR. I agree it was a bit mid overall.

@GritterTheBuckethead

11 ай бұрын

@@wfb.subtraktor311 Now that I think of it, it genuinely feels like the movies were written around that there would be a tie-in LEGO game.

@Davidofthelost

9 ай бұрын

The barrels and rhadagash both circle the same place until you finish the QuickTime events. Both of them were rather bland and forgettable to me.

@dxpsumma383

9 ай бұрын

​@@DavidofthelostIt's Radagast... :-/

"Okay, Ladylas - Saves what she loves instead of fighting what she hates" Mad respect Sir, that is perfect

@Double-R-Nothing

8 ай бұрын

Hey, at least Rose wasn't involved in a stupid love-triangle with dick jokes

@joesmutz9287

4 ай бұрын

@@Double-R-Nothing Yeah It was a quadrangle, and one part of it *was* the joke

@Double-R-Nothing

4 күн бұрын

​@joesmutz9287 Quadrangle... you mean a rectangle?

I always thought that Smaug asking where bilbo is from was extremely threatening. Smaug intended to make sure no more of his kind bothered him again.

@anonecki

9 ай бұрын

It's like Anton Chigurh with the gas station clerk in No Country For Old Men

@lovablesnowman

9 ай бұрын

I don't think it was intended like that. The reason Gandalf chose Bilbo is because Smaug wouldn't have dealt with hobbits before. If a dwarf, human or elf tried to sneak into Erebor Smaug would have killed them immediately whereas with Bilbo he was genuinely curious

@Superibis.

7 ай бұрын

Same for me, thus why Bilbo is extremely evasive in his answer, so Smaug couldn't know exactly where he was from.

@HECKproductions

6 ай бұрын

unlikely; smaug would probably not leave his treasure to go all the way to the shire just to destroy all hobbits

@ColinoDeani

5 ай бұрын

@@HECKproductions dragons are petty and ego filled creatures.. not so lazy that they would avoid traveling to complete a vendetta.. they like doing shit like that...

This is a minor nit pick but: When Azog talks to Sauron and then demands and shouts at him, that scene makes no sense since Sauron would never allow an Orc to speak too him like that at all and would kill him to be an example to the others. Nor would an Orc even one like azog ever have the willpower to do that to Sauron.

@JRAndrach

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! Sauron literally made the orcs worship him as a god and forbade the use of his name. They were terrified of him and any orc speaking to him like that would have been made an example of. Azog would have come before Sauron crawling.

@Historyfan476AD

Жыл бұрын

@@JRAndrach Quite true, it was forbidden to speak his name, Aragorn even states this as so during Two towers when they're pursuing the Uruk raiders who attacked the Fellowship.

@ryanmcwilliams8784

Жыл бұрын

This is not a minor nitpick it’s a huge issue! Sauron would’ve destroyed his mind just talking to him

@enriquecabrera2137

Жыл бұрын

Maybe Sauron was feeling nice that time.

@OJ9992

Жыл бұрын

You’re absolutely right. It’s also ridiculous he mentions Thorin as if Sauron would even know or care who that is in comparison to his grand plans. Just reduces the scale of Sauron’s significant evil in my opinion.

So a little detail about the drunken elves that is explicitly stated in the books but that the movie doesn't clearly mention is that elves *can* get drunk, but because of their physiology it is very difficult for them to get drunk. The wine that the wood elves have is from Laketown, which is their primary trade good with the elves. The wine they make is of a *particular* strength. Far stronger than almost any other alcoholic beverage in Middle Earth. This is because only the strongest of alcohol can actually get an elf drunk. Fast forward to the drinking contest with Gimli and we suddenly have some excellent context that makes the whole scenario hilariously ironic. Not only was Legolas quite familiar with alcohol and being drunk, he knew full well that the mead they were drinking in Rohan wasn't even close to strong enough to get him drunk. He pretended to be ignorant and led Gimli on, knowing full well the dwarf stood absolutely no chance of beating him.

@koreancowboy42

Жыл бұрын

The wine is from lake town???? I thought the Elven king makes his own wine that's much stronger. 🤔 They have a master of wine aswell.

@88michaelandersen

Жыл бұрын

@@koreancowboy42 In the book, the men of Laketown make the wine, and the Elven master of wine's job is to make sure that the wine is of good quality. Presumably the master of wine switches vendors based on price and quality.

@silverswordsmith5424

Жыл бұрын

@@koreancowboy42 Yes, the wine is indeed from Laketown. Now, I'm not certain if they make it there or if they trade for it and then pass it one to Thurandil, but the way their trade deal works is the men of Laketown trade barrels of wine up the river and the wood elves send the empty barrels back to be refilled.

@cmcapps1963

Жыл бұрын

My head cannon is that the Elves are drinking the original version of whiskey.

@MrRenanHappy

Жыл бұрын

There is no supernatural property on the wine. It is just stronger wine than average. The drinking game between Gimli and Legolas and the latter basically not knowing what being drunk is, is an invention from PJ. This invention is particularly baffling because The Hobbit has these guards being drunk in the books, however, it was also cut from the theatrical edition which was a good move. Elves are physiologically identical to Men, they're of the same species as Tolkien stated. That's why they can progeny together. The difference between Elves and Men is spiritual, and in this world it is that spiritual difference that causes Men to age and Elves to be immortal. That's why despite all their technology, the Numenorians could not abate old age. Overall, I find odd that the author of the video hasn't read the book or listened to the audiobook, but has spent multiple times the time to review these movies and edit these videos.

This is the rant I always wished I could give to my friends but nobody would sit and listen to me for two hours, cheers you legend

@Smokey420Greenleaf

10 ай бұрын

for all the ranting, this film still made more in 2 days than this guy has with his cartoon characters in his entire life.

@cranberryrosebud

9 ай бұрын

@@Smokey420Greenleaf yes, a Hollywood film adaptation of a book written by the same author of three other books that were made into critically acclaimed film adaptations a decade earlier is probably going to make more money than a KZreadr with under 20k subscribers, talking about said film a decade later when it's out of the mainstream consciousness - that's a very astute obsersvation. Has absolutely no bearing on the quality of the video though, which I would argue has a better script than any of the Hobbit movies. Ultimately, I fail to see the point of your comment.

@Smokey420Greenleaf

9 ай бұрын

@@cranberryrosebud my point is simple, if this dude knew half the shit he thinks he does, he would, and should be producing these movies rather than producing trash youtube content. the fact that he's not clearly indicates he doesn't know shit. also, for all his bitching about how lazy and un-creative other content creators are, dude uses badly drawn cartoon characters from Disney movies to illustrate his points. kinda the pot calling the kettle black.

@_TheCakeIsALie_

9 ай бұрын

This is the comment that i wanted to write excactly like this but felt my pain first. Cheers you fellow rantfan

@jonathanjoestar_real

9 ай бұрын

I would

The real reason Radagast accompanied Gandalf to the tomb was so that we could have a co-op character for the level in the video game LEGO The Hobbit. I also find it really funny that you point out how videogame-like a lot of the action setpieces are because the adaptations of those scenes for the LEGO game made for very entertaining levels.

@Undomaranel

Жыл бұрын

Also, it's due to the 80s and 90s kids now working on these productions. We grew up with video games, and most people do not analyze and unlearn tropes. They choose the rule of cool instead of "make it believable and then spice it up". They use anime logic and cgi instead of a prop master's diagrams of how to make a setpiece work. We grew up with Sonic, Assassin's Creed, God of War, Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy and Banjo Kazooie and the Prequels and the writers working now are using that turn style/ move set flashiness in their diagramming and choreography. Their WoW and LoL hours are seeping into their work...

@jondoe7036

11 ай бұрын

@@Undomaranel I see nothing inherently wrong with bit of magical realism in a film, especially if it's supposed to be an action romp, where excitement factor and power fantasy are kind of the point. As I see it, that only becomes a problem with these films, because A) on several occations it's done in a manner, that blatantly clashes with the more comparably serious tone set up by the Lord of the Rings trilogy, which these films are supposed to work as an expansion to, and B) they more often than not fail to establish characters' vulnerability in the face of threats they'd face; something any functional video game with some comparable stuff in it generally achieves by having a health system and a fail state for neglecting to avoid getting hurt.

@jonahfalcon1970

5 ай бұрын

@@jondoe7036 Well, God Mode was always a videogame concept we grew up with. 🤣

@jondoe7036

5 ай бұрын

@@jonahfalcon1970 Sure, but outside of some in-universe limited time and/or resource power up modes ala Devil Trigger, those are basically only available via cheating and not the intended (initial) experience with a game.

@henrikaugustsson4041

Ай бұрын

Considering how popular 3D was at the time and how every major film company used to make 3D rides of their franchises, I’m willing to bet this was for some theme park 3D ride. So many worthless, stupid action sequences…

35:48 Safety engineer here. The reason you may want to send the lightest first is because (in layman's terms) the rate to which an object is weakened by being subjected to weight is usually nonlinear. The dwarves, being metal-workers, very likely have some intuitive grasp of this fact. For example, subjecting a metal frame to 2000 lbs could weaken the frame as much as subjecting it to 1000 lbs, 16 times. So if Bombur weighs twice as much as the others, the vines could very well be weakened more by his going across first than by all 13 of the others going across first. Moreover, if the vines do break under Bombur's weight, then he dies and nobody gets across. It is entirely believable to me that the dwarves would want to cross in ascending order of weight.

@sandrahans5979

7 ай бұрын

Clever…

@lizvtaz6

7 ай бұрын

This is very interesting, thank you. Maybe that is what happened to the Titan submarine...

@lsixty30

7 ай бұрын

underrated comment

@Wobmiar

5 ай бұрын

I agree with you, but in the movie, they clearly use Bilbo as a test subject, because after him they all go at the same time. It would be more logical to go 1 at a time, in ascending weight order, which they clearly do not do

@ferrishthefish

5 ай бұрын

@@Wobmiar Well, then ignore the bit that gives any credit to the dwarves' intelligence. Regardless, Random made the categorical assertion that the heaviest should be sent across first. That is still incorrect for the reasons outlined above, essentially the same reason you can put a 1 lb. coffee mug on a table 10,000 times without issue but you can't put a 10,000 lb. elephant on a table one time.

Smaug refers to Thorin as "Oakenshield" despite the fact that Thorin was only given this name *after* the exile of the Dwarves from Erebor. Did someone sneak into Smaug's lair and tell him about Thorin's exploits and new nickname?

@rosiehawtrey

Жыл бұрын

IIR a previous expedition went to Erebor and got its ass kicked/eaten - he probably had a nice chat with his lunch so that'd explain that..

@delivererofdarknessshoguno1133

10 ай бұрын

​@@rosiehawtreythat's still reaching, I think.

@MegaUgluk

9 ай бұрын

If he is in contact with Sauron and/or his forces they may have informed him of likely visitors or even just updated him on his old enemies. A stretch but if all we can do is stretch then stretch we must

@americafy9195

8 ай бұрын

The answer to that question is fairly simple. In fact it's the same answer as to how Smaug knows of the wine barrel trade between Esgaroth, Rhovanion and the Woodlands Realm : he hasn't come out of Erebor for - in both the book and the movies - ONLY 60 years whilst the sack of Erebor happened in 2770 3A. The action takes place in 2940 3A so it has been 170 years since said sack, which means Smaug used to go out of the mountain for 110 years and, as it happens, the Battle of Azanulbizar where Thorin acquired his nickname took place in the 2790s IIRC. It also happens that this battle is legendary within universe and that Thorin II Oakenshield is the current king of Durin's Folk, which implies he's likely very famous. Smaug has also been portrayed as someone who would chat with its victims before burning them to ashes so it's fairly reasonable to assume he had at least a few conversations in the aforementionned 80 years during which he used to go out of Erebor. Plus Thorin is one of Smaug's sworn enemy therefore him incuring about Thorin's situation makes perfect sense. To put it in perpective, in real life history, there were muslim scholars of Transoxiana who had heard of Richard I, known as Lionheart, and they were aware of its nickname although given the state of the Seljuk sultanate at this time, they themself likely weren't very concerned about the Lionheart's activities in Palestine. Anyway, pretty long comment to say that this irrelevant detail isn't actually far-fetched.

@thecappeningchannel515

8 ай бұрын

If there are talking birds in Erebor, there might be talking bats sharing news with Smaug. Smaug somehow heard of Erebors wealth while living in the northern wastes. So he must be able to get gossip somewhere.

It's funny how the movie has Bilbo lose the ring during the spider fight to depower him even though in the books the only reason they all live is because Bilbo is invisible and thus able to fight the spiders which makes perfect sense in this situation as none of the dwarfs had their weapons anymore. It also helped that in the books there was no mind altering trippy quality to mirkwood they all just kinda fell to despair after weeks of being lost and ran around the woods chasing lights until they were captured.

@Mephilis78

Жыл бұрын

actual line from The Hobbit, by J.R.R. Tolkien "Bilbo knew on sight that Mirkwood was sick"

@aidanwalker8755

8 ай бұрын

​@@Mephilis78and...

@Mephilis78

8 ай бұрын

@@aidanwalker8755 My point was that there absolutely was a trippy supernatural quality to the woods.

@HarrDarr

7 ай бұрын

it's more subtle than the film, though there is absolutely a magical component to the forest, the river for example is magical in the book, likewise they continuously run into things to entice them in the forest but this seems to have been a magical mirage effect, as soon as they leave the path and chase for instance an apparent revelling party of elves it disappears and they are then lost.

@andrewmeyer3599

4 ай бұрын

@@HarrDarr iirc, it's always the Wood Elves that they see off the road, right?

Funny thing is that in the books Elrond was world renowned one-of-a-kind healer thanks to his Ring of Power which amplified his magic. So when Frodo was delivered to him he uses Sauron's craftsmanship to remove Sauron's curse. I honestly doubt any elven mage at Thranduil's disposal could heal Kili of morgul poison. Looks like someone gave Bolg a cheap fake.

@theeffete3396

Жыл бұрын

Vilya was not made by Sauron. What an epic failure of a comment.

@user-ke8ew3or5n

Жыл бұрын

@@theeffete3396I never said it was, so...

@jondoe7036

11 ай бұрын

@@theeffete3396 It wasn't made by Sauron, but it and the other two elven Rings of Power were grafted by Celebrimbor using the knowledge and skills he'd acquired from working together with Sauron, so it was made using what was originally Sauron's craft. Hence why the One Ring still holds power over the elven Rings, even if Sauron himself never touched them, rendering them not safe to use as long as Sauron had the One.

@anonecki

9 ай бұрын

​@@theeffete3396Bravo, using the words "epic failure" has invalidated any point you possibly could have made.

@mnschoen

Ай бұрын

There is absolutely no indication that Elrond's healing has anything to do with his ring. That's a weird inference you made yourself.

Gandalf seeing the ring would've not broken LOTR. At the beginning of LOTR (both movies and books), Gandalf does know about Bilbo's ring. He just believed it to be merely one of the lesser rings of power. On top of that, the ring at this point in time was sort of sleeping. Granting some powers, yes, but with Sauron not yet reincarned, not operating at full strength. Gandalf would've not being able to detect it for what it was. Bilbo feeling its influence instead breaks the movie continuity a ton more. How is he already feeling corruption now and at the same time capable of holding up against its corruption with almost no lasting effect for 60 years until the beginning of LOTR?

@krabkrabby

Жыл бұрын

Good answer. Also considering how much Gandalf was scared of the Balrog, I hardly doubt he could face Sauron without having an heart attack in this situation. 😂 Bilbo seems incredibly strong since he was able to keep the ring for so many years, so it's impossible for him to feel so weak at this point. This trilogy is very chaotic.

@otaku-sempai2197

9 ай бұрын

Also, at this point Gandalf could believe that Bilbo has found a lesser ring (not one of the 20 Rings of Power), one of those that were made while the Elves of Eregion were still perfecting their ring-craft.

@andrewmeyer3599

4 ай бұрын

@@krabkrabby The entire point of Gandalf having been sent to Middle-Earth was entirely *because* he was way too fucking scared to even go near Sauron much less actually challenge him. It's the literal reason WHY he was chosen to guide Middle-Earth's defense

@andrewmeyer3599

4 ай бұрын

Gandalf actually couldn't sense the Ring. The only time he even began to suspect Bilbo's ring was the One Ring was when he went to touch it and even then he went to Gondor and began poking around, hoping to find some paper trail of the Ring, and that's when he found Isildur's personal writings about what happened

@LadyDoomsinger

2 ай бұрын

I think it's pretty clear the writers exaggerated the Ring's effect on Bilbo just to communicate to the audience that it is an Evil Ring - since there is no actual plot point or character development related to it's corruption in the movies. I'm willing to accept that as "artistic liberty" - I would've been far more bothered, if the plot of the movie actually revolved around the Ring corrupting Bilbo, or in some other way was more than just a passing acknowledgement that this is an Evil Ring.

In the novel, Bard mentions how he has "always retrieved" the black arrow, implying he's used it many times before and may well have missed with it too.

@theproplady

9 ай бұрын

In the cartoon version of the Hobbit, it's just a regular arrow albeit one that was nicely made. Pretty much anyone could have killed Smaug as long as they knew about the bare spot on his body.

@otaku-sempai2197

9 ай бұрын

Yes, the Black Arrow was a ballista bolt only in the Peter Jackson films. Though even in the book, Bard suggests that the arrow is believed to have come "from the forges of the true king under the Mountain" (the dwarves).

@matthiuskoenig3378

6 ай бұрын

@theproplady well not anyone, since they would still need the strength to wield a bow and the experiance to hit a small moveing target.

@jonahfalcon1970

5 ай бұрын

Bard's shot with the arrow was so powerful it sunk itself deep into Smaug, completely disappearing into the dragon.

@andrewmeyer3599

4 ай бұрын

@@otaku-sempai2197 More than likely was made from Mithril and enchanted

2:44 in the actual story, Azog can speak Black Speech and Dwarfish, showing he’s probably quite smart. When Thror and Nar came to Moria, Thror ventured in alone and was killed either by Azog or his Orcs. Azog then mocked Nar, calling him a ‘beggar-beard’ and basically calls dwarves homeless tramps, and then tossed Thror’s ‘weregild’ by tossing Nar a sack of worthless sack of coins. On Thror’s head he had his name carved in runes, and proclaimed himself the king under the mountain. He’s practically goading on the Dwarves to attack him, ‘come and have a go if you think you’re hard enough’. He never swore an oath to end the line of Durin, unless he did it during the war. So Azog is shown to be intelligent, learned, literate in Dwarfish and then presumably Black Speech, and knowledgeable of Dwarven culture and history. What they could’ve done is go over the entire history of the Dwarves in the prologue, wherein they could’ve included that scene. To do it justice it seems like it’d take 20-30 minutes but if Friday The 13th can have one of those and keep it engaging, so can Middle Earth.

@thecappeningchannel515

8 ай бұрын

Azog could write, was more or less an independet emperor of the Misty Mountains (at least during the 7 year war with the dwarves). But he did not speal dwarf language. This was a secret he could not have learned from evil dwarfs or from archives in Moria (dwarfs wrote in elvish). Azog spoke westron to Nar.

@JustAnArrogantAlien

6 ай бұрын

For fans of the books, it is hilariously jarring to see Thror die during the Battle of Azanulbizar, considering that in the books it was Azog's murder of Thror that caused that battle in the first place.

@jonahfalcon1970

5 ай бұрын

@@JustAnArrogantAlien Does Azog actually speak in the books? It's just a reference by Gandalf when rallying the other armies to join.

@JustAnArrogantAlien

5 ай бұрын

@@jonahfalcon1970 Not in _The Hobbit,_ but he DOES speak in the appendices to _The Return of the King._ He could communicate with Thror's aide, so he was definitely able to speak some other language besides Black Speech. It's very unlikely he spoke Khuzdul, though; the Dwarves were very secretive with their language. Azog was probably speaking Westron.

This shtick of taking bullet list character notes while watching is a brilliant way of making commentary. Well done.

@dantethewanderer4989

9 ай бұрын

It's also a good way of cataloging character growth and regression, along with being a good way to keep track of when someone is acting out of character to a bad or even egregious degree. So I have to give Random Film Talk kudos for it, I've never done it myself or seen any other reviewer do it like this before.

@Janeka-xj2bv

9 ай бұрын

Indeed it is, hadn't thought about it that way

@NobileFanfiltr

9 ай бұрын

I was exatly about to say the complete opposite, that bullet list really wasted our time, but seems that less then avarage brains like yours needs it

@dxpsumma383

9 ай бұрын

It also makes this creator dude sound like a smug douchebag

@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je

5 ай бұрын

I thought it was annoying at first, but it's pretty hilarious after a while.

The book handles the Beorn encounter in a much better, actually humorous way. Beorn likes stories, and Gandalf regales beorn with the tale of their travels and tells the dwarves earlier to come out in pairs every 5 minutes.

@vaiyt

2 ай бұрын

Beorn also has a grudge against the goblins, and his disposition towards the party lightens considerably once he learns they killed the big goblin boss.

@henrikaugustsson4041

Ай бұрын

Oh, right! I forgot about that! So he doesn’t really notice how many they are!

My biggest gripe when I saw this was the morgul shaft. Why couldn’t it have just been a poisoned? Same thing would’ve happened. My other problems were Bofur over sleeping & getting left behind & Oin not knowing what kingsfoil is for. He’s a healer for Valar’s sake!

@thesaurus9226

Жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure Oin knew what Kingsfoil was. He was going to use it himself, he just didn't have magical elvish medicine that somehow makes it into a wonder-cure. The entire population of Laketown, on the other hand.... "Kingsfoil? We feed it to the pigs"

@BourneColdBlooded

Жыл бұрын

Oin not knowing what kingsfoil is fits in with the lore as it was bought over by the numenoreans and all but the dunedain and the elves had no idea of its healing properties even the healers in the the houses of healing had no idea of its properties

@thesaurus9226

Жыл бұрын

@@BourneColdBlooded Oin specifically asked for kingsfoil to bring the fever down. It was herpderp gaston/laketowners who feed it to the pigs

@annegrey6447

Жыл бұрын

@@BourneColdBlooded Really? I borrowed the trilogy (didn’t finish before having to return it). Is it in there or the appendices? Or will I have to read The Silmarillion?

@BourneColdBlooded

Жыл бұрын

@@annegrey6447 yer its in chapter 8 return of the king i think, the houses of healing aragorn asks the healers for athelas/kingsfoil and they tell him they do not store it because they did not know of any great healing properties

Bilbo’s conversation with Smaug suffers because of how the structure supporting it was altered. In the book, Bilbo was hoping to find the Dragon’s weakness; Smaug wanted to kill Bilbo, but couldn’t find him because Bilbo never took off the Ring. So each kept the other talking in the hopes they’d slip up (as they each eventually did). In _The Desolation of Smaug,_ Bilbo is looking for the Arkenstone instead, so he keeps Smaug talking to distract him while he searches. That’s functional enough; but what is Smaug getting out of his chat with Bilbo? This time the Hobbit’s NOT wearing the Ring. He’s standing right there; nothing to stop Smaug from just stepping on him. Perhaps the Dragon wanted information, but in that case why not just torture it out of him right quick? He’s a 150 foot-long flying theropod with a built-in flamethrower: plenty of different options he could use to make Bilbo very uncomfortable! Maybe Smaug was just bored and welcomed the company for a change.

@andrewmeyer3599

4 ай бұрын

Tolkien's dragons are very vain, the way Smaug is depicted and loves flattery is still very inline with how they act

You know what's not fair? Arwen actually WAS mentioned in The Hobbit, and yet she wasn't in Rivendell, while Legolas wasn't mentioned in any way and he gets to be in the movies!!

@bobo577

7 ай бұрын

In fairness, she may have been in Lothlorien at the time. When she returned to Rivendell I am uncertain right now.

@LadyDoomsinger

2 ай бұрын

Maybe Arwen's actress wasn't available or had no interest?

@user-gk4jd1jv4k

Ай бұрын

YEP! Arwen should have been in this as well!

@12classics39

17 күн бұрын

When is Arwen mentioned in The Hobbit book? I don’t recall that. The bigger question, though, is why in neither the book nor the films do Bilbo and the Dwarves come across a young human boy named Estel in Rivendell, given that Elrond is supposed to be fostering Aragorn at this point.

@LadyDoomsinger

17 күн бұрын

@@12classics39 I don't think Tolkien had invented the character of Aragorn when he wrote the Hobbit, for starters. As to the movie, it's not really relevant to the plot, and the only reason to include such a thing would be sheer, undisguised fanservice.

"Bilbo is then shrink-wrapped by the spider and then oh dear, I guess they all die now!" That got me good 🤣

This trilogy feels more like good DnD campaign to play, battle scenes are full of critical rolls, and some characters are really well written. This also explain why dwarfs act really weird sometimes, it is just bad roleplay.

As for why bilbo talks the way he does with smaug. This is how you talk to dragons if you dont want to reveal your real name and because you dont want to make them angry by refusing to give your name. Dragons love riddling talk and love wasting time trying to understand it

@jonahfalcon1970

5 ай бұрын

Then why would he show his fucking face to him?

@andrewmeyer3599

4 ай бұрын

@@jonahfalcon1970 Because dragons in Tolkien's universe are *especially* vain as fuck. Had Bilbo not revealed himself and continued to evade Smaug, he would end up hurting Smaug's pride and make an actual enemy of Smaug in that moment. By revealing himself, he is immediately de-escalating Smaug with an "Aha! You *did* find me" And immediately posing Smaug with the new question of "What in the actual fuck is that thing?" Which will keep Smaug distracted with wanting to know more about Bilbo rather than just outright murdering the fuck out of him. Only way to keep a dragon in LOTR from killing you is by basically convincing them that you are far more interesting to them alive

@jonahfalcon1970

4 ай бұрын

​ @andrewmeyer3599 No. Just no. Dragons are PRACTICAL in Tolkien's universe. They are vengeful and cruel. They are vain, yes, but they are extremely intelligent. If Bilbo revealed himself to Smaug in the book, it EXPLICITLY STATES that the dragon would have controlled Bilbo's mind. It even STATES that Bilbo was feeling a strong urge to reveal everything to Smaug. Had Bilbo revealed himself, he'd have spilled the beans on everything and Smaug would have EATEN him. Furthermore, everything Smaug sees, he will capture. He sees you, you're finished. The game he plays with Smaug is to distract him from the dwarves. Smaug isn't prideful (except for his gem coat), he just loves riddles. You may notice that the game Bilbo plays is actually a CALLBACK TO GOLLUM. Bilbo is using his brain to deal with threats, not Sting. Let me put this simply: Peter Jackson doesn't know Tolkien. He doesn't know how to write. He is a cinematographer, not a director. Stop watching the films and actually READ THE BOOKS.

@jonahfalcon1970

4 ай бұрын

"I suppose you got a fair price for that cup last night?" [Smaug] went on. "Come now, did you? Nothing at all! Well, that's just like [dwarves]. And I suppose they are skulking outside, and your job is to do all the dangerous work and get what you can when I'm not looking - for them? And you will get a fair share? Don't you believe it! If you get off alive, you will be lucky." Bilbo was now beginning to feel really uncomfortable. Whenever Smaug's roving eye, seeking for him in the shadows, flashed across him, he trembled, and an unaccountable desire seized hold of him to rush out and reveal himself and tell all the truth to Smaug. In fact he was in grievous danger of coming under the dragon-spell.

@jonahfalcon1970

4 ай бұрын

Smaug's being an idiot, vain dragon is Jackson's idea. The only time Smaug was vain was when Bilbo complimented his gem coat, revealing the single spot with no gem. Bilbo's flattery was to pique Smaug's curiosity. But make no mistake, Smaug was fully aware of Bilbo trying to flatter him. ‘You have nice manners for a thief and a liar, said the dragon.’ Does that sound like someone who is fooled by Bilbo's flattery?

The scenes of Bilbo and Smaug are by far and away the best scenes in the entire Hobbit movies. The ending of part 2, with his flying towards Laketown and saying “I am…DEATH” is so good. Just a shame the rest of the movies couldn’t live up to that high-water mark.

@jonahfalcon1970

5 ай бұрын

Except it's fucking annoying that Bilbo reveals himself. In the book, it's a guessing game between Bilbo and Smaug, with is a callback to the guessing game with Gollum, even before the edit Tolkien made (in which Gollum gives Bilbo the gift of the Ring). Smaug can hunt down and kill anything he sees. In addition, Smaug is confused by Bilbo's smell. That's a key part of the scene. I have no fucking idea why you'd have Smaug see Bilbo. But then again, Peter Jackson can't write and doesn't understand storytelling at all. As a director, he's a good cinematographer.

@your.dark.lord.

3 ай бұрын

He's death, but he was running from dwarves

@jonahfalcon1970

3 ай бұрын

@@your.dark.lord. Oh no... dwarves... it's not like Smaug literally ate thousands of dwarves with only Thorin's dad and granddad escaping through a secret tunnel.

@your.dark.lord.

3 ай бұрын

Yep. I meant in the film, the chase, thorin taunting him, that golden dwarf...it looked he left the mountain out of powerlessness because he couldn't catch them, they chased him out. Pius, Bilbo taking the ring out and survivimg. Therefore, zero danger .

Normally I don't watch long analysis videos, like your cliff notes regarding characters in previous videos are the real deal for some analysis videos, but you manage to mix criticism with humor pretty nicely.

@shaunsocha421

Жыл бұрын

Honestly hard agree, I'm really impressed. I think the format was ruined by sweaty neckbeards hell bent on turning everything into SJW content but this has none of [that] shit. Would love to hear this guys opinions on the star wars sequels, this format would be brilliant 👏

@valder8423

Жыл бұрын

@@shaunsocha421 You are absolutely right. Most of them are just endless word salads. And I was already sold when this guy uses "forbidden" words

Finally, it's time for The Hobbit 2: Hobbit Harder.

5.5 hours later I can't wait for part three. Thanks for the deep dive into the Hobbit that I didn't know I wanted.

2:04:19 I legit thought the wilhelm scream was an edit from this video and not actually in the movie (i had not seen any of the extended cut from this trilogy) so to hear you explain that the wilhelm scream was actually there IN THE MOVIE made me laugh hysterically

This reminded me there was a time when you learned something good was coming and you would get excited to see it knowing it will be up to certain standarts and can't wait for it. Right in the nostalghia...

@kayne8222

Жыл бұрын

I agree with this, been looking forward to this all week I'm surprised more creators don't do this

@DarthWinterMadness

Жыл бұрын

Once upon a time, that's how I felt waiting for new Star Wars movies. I still do feel that for Tarantino Movies though... Maybe the only filmmaker in Hollywood I give a darn about. Cheers from France guys! 🍻

@charlestonjew7587

Жыл бұрын

I'd upvote you but I'm not gonna be the one to break that sweet, sweet number.

@finchvalor

Жыл бұрын

That's still true today. It's just that the standard is much much lower😀

@adam3647

Жыл бұрын

_The world is changed_

Just as an aside to where some of these extra scenes came from, Tolkien had whole outlines describing what Gandalf was doing and planning but kept those to the Appendixes and Unfinished Tales (and other notes) because he knew that they were unimportant to the stories he was telling but he wanted every detail to have an explanation for those who were curious (mainly himself being curious). All the scenes with Radagast and the rest of the council were scenes that would have happened in the lore but condensed from a century down to a year to fit in the movie. Radagast who was living in Mirkwood investigated its corruption as it was beginning and tracked the source to Dul-Guldur a century before the events of the Hobbit. He then went to Gandalf for backup and Gandalf investigated further going into Dul-Guldur and finding Thrain 91 years before the Hobbit. Gandalf learns of Sauron and some of his plans and escapes (not captured like in the movie) and reports his findings. Saruman is unwilling to do anything so Gandalf does more investigating and eventually gets Saruman to call a council a decade before the Hobbit and is not a random meeting at Rivendell when the Dwarves are passing through. At the counsel in the books it is decided that they will drive Sauron from Dul-Guldur and a time is set for the attack one decade later and all members go to prepare forces. Gandalf also insists on dealing with Smaug as he had discovered Sauron intended to use Smaug but everyone else just wanted to let sleeping Dragons lie, even so he convinced them to let him come up with and execute a plan on his own. Eventually when nothing was coming to him and time was running short he decided to go to the Shire for a rest before setting out for Mirkwood the next year hoping something would come to him when Thorin found Gandalf in Bree and the quest for the Lonely Mountain was planned. Gandalf agreed to accompany them to Mirkwood but he had to be there for the assault or else he was afraid Saruman would call it off. So in the books he leaves to go fight Sauron intending to return to the Dwarves when he is done. While a good story could be told from this outline the condensing of time led to some wild teleporting and make Gandalf's plan unclear since he no longer has all the information at the beginning of the story. Azog in the lore fought a war with the Dwarves between when Smaug cast them out of Erabor and the Hobbit. He was eventually slain in the battle depicted in the movies not by Thorin but by Dain. In the books Bolg was the one tasked with taking Erabor after Smaug was defeated, and in the final movie it should have been him who Thorin fought at the end. Movies just had a weird mix of Azog and Bolg for reasons I do not understand. If they wanted an antagonist the whole way through they could have used Bolg and played up the goblin's need for revenge after killing their King. Azog seemed like a stretch and only added a bland villan. Tariel was added due to a studio mandate for more women and a romance subplot, and has no inspiration from Tolkien's lore. Anyway just a summary of where the Bloat came from in case anyone was curious.

I'm an absolute sucker for movie deep analysis/lookbacks/retrospectives. I'm super happy to have found your content and channel and I LOVE that these are all over 2 hour videos. Absolute amazing work, keep it up!

@massspectrician

11 ай бұрын

Tobias: Is a suck-up to Random Film Talk Random Film Talk wants his "love truncheon".

God I had forgotten how offensively silly this movie actually is

@alcoke1208

10 ай бұрын

Its like this sweet spot of lame and endearing, especially when you compare it to.... it has heart at least, and this commentator give it some fair marks. But it be a lie if we said it was an improvement. Early 2010s may seem shallow and tacky, but it sure as shit wasnt woke authoritarianism. "This is whats good cinema now, disagree and ur racist"

@limlaith

9 ай бұрын

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. 😅 As a colossal Tolkien fan, and generally a purist where it comes to film adaptations of books, these movies actually did offend me. And outrage me - and enrage me. I don't know which is greater my disappointment or my fury.

@your.dark.lord.

3 ай бұрын

I was facepalming the entire film. It had good things but...

The weird thing is I think it's the ring that Sauron gave to Thráin II which is meant to have corrupted him and given him Dragon sickness, not the Arkenstone. So it's a bit of a weird tangent in the Hobbit film.

@aaronhollermann9831

Жыл бұрын

Sauron didn't give the Ring (one of the seven) to Thráin (Thráin would be at least 3000 years old, which no dwarf in the books reached even closely) But yes I always thought it was part of the Royal Bloodline to fall for Gold xD No seriously you make a good point, because the ring probably dialed the love of Gold, Dwarves have, up to eleven on Thráin and Thorin succumbed to the dragonsickness quite litterally as Smaug was on this pile of Gold for sixty years. I always understood it, that dragonsickness is the ultimate "upgrade" to the greed Thráin had.

@johns1625

Жыл бұрын

It's kind of dumb they changed that considering all the other lame and cringy tangents they took to try and tie these films to LotR. It would have been cool to see Gandalf recall that to Bilbo and maybe add some uncertainty or curiousity to his new possession of the One Ring

@charlestonjew7587

Жыл бұрын

@@aaronhollermann9831 Let's be honest, I think anyone who sat on a throne surrounded by a sea of gold and jewels would go a mad.

@aaronhollermann9831

Жыл бұрын

@@charlestonjew7587 maybe not instantly but yeah, thats quite a given I think

@koreancowboy42

Жыл бұрын

The arkenstone didn't give them dragon sickness. It was the rings of power that helped bolster the dwarves greed which in turn became Dragon sickness. It mainly made them to be more greedy.

Thranduil wants gems, not Mithril. He tells Thorin that he wants "white gems" that are in the mountain in exchange for aid. And the prologue scene shows us those gems which appear to have been offered to him as a gift by the king, then rescinded. That's not mithril in the chest. (Really, because of that slight Thorin shouldn't have been surprised when Thranduil turned away as Smaug attacked. Why should he help someone who treated him like dirt at an official meeting?) The gems shining like starlight would have been irresistable to the elves, so that's what he asked for in exchange. A small price to pay for an entire elven army to help defeat the dragon, really. Thorin seems to want help for free, or to offer to pay after the fact and then renege on the agreement. I suppose that tracks given some of the history. (On a deeper level, this is supposedly a reference to the necklace King Thingol commissioned the dwarves to make with the silmaril Beren and Luthien stole from Morgoth's crown. When Thingol went to collect the necklace, the dwarves refused to hand it over and Thingol killed some of them before being killed himself. Then the elves massacred the dwarves of that area, thus leading to the legendary distrust and hatred between dwarves and elves. Total mess.) EDIT: I was corrected in my recollection of events relating to the Nauglamir and Silmaril by some comments below. I've placed my misstatement of events in parentheses above. Thanks to John S for remembering the details better than me.

@johns1625

Жыл бұрын

Thingol did not kill some of the dwarves, they murdered him for insulting them when they made their dumbest request in history demanding the Nauglamir and the Silmaril as payment for putting the Silmaril in the Nauglamir. They killed Thingol and tons of others before returining to Nogrod and then going to war with Menegroth killing almost all the Elves who lived there. Oropher and Thranduil escaped. Elves didn't massacre anybody nor start that conflict, like, at all.

@NoxAtlas

Жыл бұрын

​@John S As far as I remember, the dwarves didn't want the nauglamir as payment. They made the necklace for Finrod Felagund as a symbol of friendship. But when Finrod died, Thingol came into the possession of the necklace thanks to Hurin. Sure, the dwarves actually wanted the silmaril, but they basically said "We made the necklace specifically for Felagund. He's dead and according to Dwarven laws, the ownership returns to us since we made the necklace." So it wasn't about payment but ownership.

@JRAndrach

Жыл бұрын

@@johns1625 That's right! Forgive me for mis-remembering. I was pretty sure the Dwarves were all killed shortly after, but you're right, that didn't happen until after they'd sacked Menegroth and took the treasure from Doriath. I really need to revisit the book. I appreciate the correction for my faulty memory.

@JRAndrach

Жыл бұрын

@@NoxAtlas Well, the fact remains they took the commission to place the silmaril into it and then refused to give it back. If they only wanted the Nauglamir they likely could have kept it so long as they returned the silmaril. They could have refused the commission in the first place, but didn't. I think the claim that they only wanted to adhere to dwarvish custom relating to ownership of dwarf-made things was only part of the issue and in the end it was just an excuse for them to claim both the Nauglamir and the silmaril together. They could claim a right of ownership of the Nauglamir, not to the Silmaril.

@NoxAtlas

Жыл бұрын

@@JRAndrach True and Thingol even pointed out that they used that ownership issue merely as an excuse because they only wanted the silmaril, not the necklace. Honestly, this part of the Silmarillion didn't really make sense to me and was perhaps the weakest part of the story. Like you said: the dwarves could have just kept silmaril and lock Thingol out if he wanted it back. There's no reason for them to accept the commission, go back with the nauglamir with the silmaril and then start an argument. The only explanations are that the curse of the silmarils make every non-worthy individual greedy and act completely irrational and illogical so they end up being killed or Tolkien didn't revise the version to fix this issue and his son didn't want to change it.

As far as I know , but i might be wrong that the symbol of an eye has been always a sigil of Souron in Tolkien's lore , even during the times of Morgoth . So I guess that it's reasonable for Gandalf to know this .

@biffm.2806

Жыл бұрын

Yes, but he’s going specifically on what the movies say. I don’t think they ever mentioned that in the movies…🤷🏻‍♀️

These critical breakdown-takedowns are addicting. Our expanding personality list with the Misty Mountains elevator music is the cherry on top.

The giant bees, I believe, were a nod to the 3D animators, giving audiences the experience of GIGANTIC bees flying through the movie screen.

@Skychaser33

Жыл бұрын

Well in the book Beorn did keep bees that were described to be larger than usual, but as always the movies gotta exaggerate every detail so...

I've got to add that from a canon perspective, it's irritating that they went with the necromancer-raises-the-Witch-King plot, since long before this point in Middle Earth's history, the elf Glorfindel prophesied that the Witch King would not be killed by any man (the prophesy fulfilled when Merry and Eowyn kill him). Which means the flashback kings of Arthedain knew he wasn't dead when they buried him, so why wasn't he guarded?

@rageagainstmyhatchet

Жыл бұрын

It's particular levels of nonsense. The witch king could absolutely be killed (by anyone) if his magic sorcery was breached. The sword Merry uses to stab him is enchanted by the men of old Arnor. They knew they might meet him in battle (millennia earlier) and prepared for it by enchanting their weapons. It makes no sense that they could capture him, but not kill him, and contradicts things seen in the RotK movie. Just sloppy writing from a rushed production

@bobo577

7 ай бұрын

The Witch-King shouldn’t be able to be buried in Rhudaur in the first place because of what his Ring of Power did to him.

I'd love too see a video series on The Lord of the Rings trilogy in the same sense as this, the only difference being that it's actually good.

@thatwaygaming8679

3 ай бұрын

If I could piggy back off of this, I would love to see what criticisms you would levy against TLOR just out of curiosity

It's funny how some problems come from places where they deviated from the books (everything was Azog, a lot of the more bombastic nonsense, new characters, etc.), and others come from places where the Hobbit films are slightly closer than the LOTR films were to the books (elves being able to get drunk, Sauron manifesting physically, etc.). Additionally, bookwise, Sauron/the Necromancer was still an unhoused spirit at this time, but by the time of LOTR, was able to take physical form. We know this because we are told by Aragorn that Gollum told him that Sauron tortured him personally, and had four fingers on his black hand.

@MST3Killa

11 ай бұрын

Sucks for Sauron that even when being reformed, he couldn't get that finger back. Poor fella.

@SupremeGreatGrandmaster

9 ай бұрын

@@MST3Killa Yeah. I have so much sympathy for the mass-murdering evil overlord. 😁

@MST3Killa

9 ай бұрын

@@SupremeGreatGrandmaster ...yeah...it's a joke

@SupremeGreatGrandmaster

9 ай бұрын

@@MST3Killa Yes. I know. I got it. That's why there's a smiley face emoji. And I thought my reply was so witty! 😒

@BobbyBlackhearts666

8 ай бұрын

I'd like to add my personal favourite scene that sends chills down my spine thinking about it. When Pippin touches the Palantir, he sees Sauron. To me it's mind blowing that out of the Fellowship, not Gandalf or Legolas wisest of beings and strong of will, but little Pippin is the one to see the Dark Lord himself. One of my favourite moments to picture every time I read it. For a long time I thought only he had seen Sauron, but now I remember Aragorn revealing himself, so I guess he likely saw the dark lord as well.

I think my favorite part of your videos are the character trait bullet points, it's incredibly unique and very entertaining

Sauron doesn't actually need the ring to have a physical form. Sauron has a physical form in the LotR, he is just unwilling to leave Baradur because the last time he decided to fight on the front lines, things... didn't go so well. The "eye" on Baradur is a projection of Sauron's power he uses to observe his realm, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a physical form. This is party to be blamed on the fact that PJ's trilogy never shows the mutilated, but corporeal form of Sauron post 2nd Age. This film, much more than the previous, adds additional bloat to the original story which tends to not only cheapen the story with cheap action sequences and unnecessary tension building, but also makes the sections that were sourced from the original material make no sense due to the disrupted context the original story had set up(see: Beorn meeting the Dwarves, Azog's existence in general, etc.).

@delivererofdarknessshoguno1133

10 ай бұрын

In the book Gollum outright states that he was tortured by Sauron and even that he is missing one finger (for obvious reasons) I don't even think that there is ever an outright description of the eye as something that is anything more than a metaphor for Sauron's ever-present authority and power.

@colbunkmust

10 ай бұрын

@@delivererofdarknessshoguno1133 I think there may be an edition of one of the first edition books that had an eye on it, which was probably Jackson's inspiration.

I will say, gandalf and radagast arriving at the same time is properly explained in fellowship. Assuming gandalf sent radagast an estimation of when he’d be there….. They’re both wizards, so they’re never late, nor are they early, they arrive precisely when they mean to.

1:59:50 "its undoubtedly a trap" The sad thing is you can tell they wanted this line because "sounds cool" at the expense of making any sense. Almost like Gandalf just became a reckless, over-confident, egotistical maniac who thinks he's so powerful he can walk directly into a waiting trap and nothing bad will happen. Or has a death wish. Neither of which are Gandalf's character. That line would fit better in a comically over-the-top action movie like the Expendables or Red. "But you can't ride a motorcycle directly into the waiting enemy ambush ahead, you'll die!" flicks cigarette "I'm sure I will." rides off anyway

In defense of the "send the lightest first". If you sent the lightest first, you have the biggest chance of getting as many people across as possible, until one is to heavy. That is, if you stick to one at a time. That said, great video, I really enjoy your thorough analysis.

@Jacob-ge1py

Жыл бұрын

That would imply that the group was okay with some or even most of them dying just to get the remainder across the river

@delivererofdarknessshoguno1133

10 ай бұрын

​@@Jacob-ge1pyi mean, it's better that some of them die or get trapped than most of them.

@Jacob-ge1py

10 ай бұрын

@@delivererofdarknessshoguno1133 I think it would be better if just one died and the rest found another way than for half of them to die and the rest continue.

I believe the orcs not pursuing them between Beorns house and Mirkwood is somewhat explained by showing Beorn watching them as the are releasing the ponies… it’s not explicitly stated that he was guarding them but it has been established that the orcs will avoid Beorn if the option to do so exists

Fun fact: The Smaug fight sequence was literally the very last thing they did and they had no idea what they were doing with it until the very last minute. You might notice that the sequence feels very impromptu, which of course is because the dwarves are making things up as they go along and definitely not because the entire sequence was pieced together through random actions shots of the dwarves doing generic things like pulling levers and throwing stuff which were filmed purely because the writers didn't have the slightest idea how the sequence was supposed to play out and so just had the actors film generic stuff they might be able to use rather than just sit around all day wasting time. It was so bad that they were still doing the sound mixing for the sequence literally a few hours before the film was supposed to be being played on cinema screens across the world. It's honestly a wonder that the sequence works at all.

@deamongimli

Жыл бұрын

To clarify a bit, I was slightly worried that I had dreamt all of this up since I couldn't find anything about this online, so I literally just got out the extended editions of the Hobbit (because yes, I'm the type of madman who both owns and watches all three of them, including the appendices) dug out an old XBox-360 (because my PC doesn't have the software to read DVDs installed) and re-watched the bit of the appendices where they talk about this. Specifically Appendices 14: Erebor Rekindled - The Dwarf-Forges. Its all 100% true EXCEPT for the "literally a few hours before the film was supposed to be being played on cinema screens across the world"; In actual fact they stayed up all night and I believe overran their deadline for delivery which, now that I think about it, probably means their deadline from New Line/Warner Bros rather than the time the film was supposed to debut in theaters. Still though, its incredible to think that it was done so late. The music cutting out just before Smaug says "death" was the very last thing they did; they cut off the music by hand and the take that ended up in the film was their second and final take.

I find this content more entertaining than the films themselves.

You're saying I'll suffer another 4 days of wait?😭

@Fallout_Jane

Жыл бұрын

I am here to remind you the premiere will start soon

@joefish5689

Жыл бұрын

He really blue balled us with this wait

@jamesp.7203

Жыл бұрын

Did you survive the wait???

@robertsmith-hp8tv

Жыл бұрын

@@joefish5689 Jeeez... you think this kind of in-depth analysis can be begun after breakfast and finished before lunch? 😦

@LocustxXxLocust

Жыл бұрын

@@robertsmith-hp8tv What about after our second breakfast?

Ah yes... The movie when things really started to go completely south. Unexpected Journey certainly had a lot of problems, but I can't deny that it tried. Now this one... The color grading went from over saturated to make it more whimsical... to completely greyish and depressing. Fan service was shoved into our throats with Legolas' overwhelming presence, presence that was only warranted because of the introduction of the most pointless character in the entire 6 films aka Tauriel... Actually trying to fight Smaug because we need a climax no matter how non-sensical... Gandalf's side quest... Even without going into the intricacies that make or break a plot, the great lines are already looking pretty bad, and it only gets worse with the next one. EDIT : Let's see how Smaug was characterized in the book as opposed to this film. I am going by memory so this might not be 100% accurate, but 80% at worst. In the book, Bilbo descends in Erebor twice, the first time, he finds Smaug very much alive and sleeping, and he steals a single item of value from the treasure. This causes Smaug's deep slumber to shift towards a nightmare of him getting stolen from. He then descends a second time, I think with the express purpose of finding the Arkenstone, but this time Smaug is paying attention and notices Bilbo's presence thanks to his incredible sense of smell. Thus ensues the conversation between the two, because Smaug is curious enough to interact with Bilbo, especially since Bilbo is an entirely unknown entity to him, to the point he can't even see him and doesn't fully understand why. In this conversation, it's revealed to us that Smaug's chest area isn't naturally covered in invincible dragon scales, it's an artificial "armor", made from all the treasures he's been sleeping on, and it's imperfect enough that there's a clear weakness Bilbo notices, transmits to the dwarves, and then a bird who was listening transmits to Bard. The conversation ends with Bilbo fleeing in the tunnel he came from and narrowingly escaping death by dragon fire, Smaug also deduces he might be affiliated to Laketown because of his latest title being related to barrels, and we learn that he fears the lake because it's deep and cold enough that if he was injured and fell in it, he would actually be in danger of death. That's the one and only time we get Smaug's direct characterization. He then gets out of the mountain and tries to find the secret entrance, breathing dragon fire on several portions of the mountain, which forces the dwarves to lock themselves in the moutain. Having seemingly failed, Smaug then turns his attention to Laketown and destroys the city before being felled by Bard and all the archers he could muster to fight Smaug. Admittedly, there are several elements that reek of contrivance due to the book's more lighthearted and whimsical nature. But it's still vastly superior to the film mainly because Smaug never directly confronts our heroes, he's allowed to display his cunning personality once and then becomes a concealed looming threat until we learn that he was defeated, which comes as a shock to both the reader and the company which got out of the moutain 2 weeks after getting locked in. All the fighting non-sense and the story of his scales getting pierced (especially a single one), literally doesn't exist and it's far better off without it.

@rosiehawtrey

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, but Tauriel extremely cute..

@x52wolf12

Жыл бұрын

Wasn’t this movie received better than the first one when it first came out?

@markopusic8258

Жыл бұрын

@@x52wolf12 Hard to say, I didn't pay attention at critics at the time, I'm merely speaking about what I believe to be the honest truth about this movie.

On the point where Bilbo could be more susceptible to the Ring is the fact he is not like other Hobbits. Hobbits are resistant to the ring because they lack ambiton and genuinly enjoy simple lives whereas Bilbo wants adventure and to interact with the world around him. Not saying the movie is good but this part can make sense when we take it in the context of Bilbo being different to other Hobbits. If we compare this to Frodo, Frodo thinks he wants adventure but we quickly find that he actually just wants his simple life back.

It really boggles my mind how all of the extra scenes in the extended version of the Hobbit trilogy have added nothing and have in fact made the movie worse off.

Stoked already, your content is great! Congratulations on the channel growth 😃👍

The fact that the Thrain stuff only happens in the EXTENDED edition absolutely baffles me

I enjoyed the subplot about Greasebag McMonobrow conveniently spawning nearby. Great video as always, can't wait to sit and watch part 3

Found your channel after your first Hobbit video. Then preceded to binge your RoP series. I don’t sub to many channels but man you got me! Keep up the great work👍

Another problem i have with the gold scene is that, implausible as that whole "melting statue" thing is, Smaug appears to be completely unhindered by this. I can appreciate that Smaug, being a magical dragon, can resist a large amount of heat. However, being coated in liquid metal (which presumably quickly cools) is absolutely going to have some effect on him. In the film, the gold appears to behave like hot paint. It scalds, and it sticks to Smaug's body in a thin layer. However, it never hardens, and it quickly falls away wgen he takes off towards Laketown. Real metal does not do this. Even if being drenched in molten metal did not directly harm Smaug, being covered in a quickly-hardening layer of heavy element would absolutely affect him. It would begin to seize his joints, fuse his eyes closed (or directly blind him), block his mouth and nostrils, and weigh him down immensely. He would absolutely not be able to fly afterwards, as his wings would be coated as if with plaster. His scales, in particular, would be a surface which the metal would adhere to strongly. I could have forgiven this if Smaug was depicted as shaking plates of gold off his body, as if he was emerging from a cocoon. However, we got nothing like that, and the entire "gold sequence" was blown off as empty spectacle.

also as a monobrow haver i can safely say that grease bag does not represent us in the slightest and he was disowned from the community at birth as he punched his own mother on the way out, indeed that was how he earned his name

The scenes between Bilbo and Smaug are the absolute highlight of this trilogy to me 😊

I find your voice so relaxing I use your videos over and over again as background noise because they help me sleep better.

One plot element re book vs movie: You asked 'How did Gandalf know about the evil of Mirkwood'. To which, the obvious and book answer is, he wasn't warning the dwarves about the the Necromancer, since the path he set them on didn't go anywhere NEAR the Necromancer. But he knows that the Wood Elves, who were wilder, more xenophobic and territorial than their urban cousins, were also a danger...as Thou...what's his name displayed. You come on my land, I take you prisoner. The 'wise minded, far sighted, far better than mere human' elves came in later years. These elves were 'merry pranksters with poor impulse control' of a child's story. I think I also offer more charity to Gandalf doing a scouting mission into the Necromancer's fort and IIRC, that is where Gandalf DID pick up the Dwarven Ring of Power (and it promptly was never ever mentioned again). I forgave this movie far less because of that damn river scene. Also, Legolas and Ladylas were horrible and contrived. This movie suffered badly from comparison to the book.

Hey! Thanks for this birthday present, RFT! Should be quite a jolly good romp! 👍 No joke, this video premieres on my birthday! 😂

@atomicdancer

Жыл бұрын

🎈 happy barfday 🎈 🤤🎂🍡🍩🍭🍨 🍧🍬🍦🥧🤢🤮

@cooldude913

Жыл бұрын

@@atomicdancer Thankssss 🤮

“Can someone vouch for the honor of this dwarf, who we just caught stealing weapons from the armory? Oh, we have a hand! Who might you be? His buddy, who got caught stealing alongside him? Good enough for me!”

I think the book portrayed the 2 dwarves at a time shtick better. Beorn seemed a lot more interested in the story when reading it than the acting gave. Also imagined him a much burlier character.

@shaunsocha421

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I always thought of Beorn like the height he was but built wide like a dwarf lol

I’m so sad we have to wait for the next autopsy. 10/10 brilliant video

It would have been so much better if Bilbo had been able to trick Smaug into showing him where the Arkenstone was. It would make complete sense for a dragon, which covets expensive and incredible things, to know where they'd be in their collection. And Bilbo outwitting opponents is something that's already been reinforced throughout the story.

@henrikaugustsson4041

Ай бұрын

I don’t like the idea of Smaug falling for a trick, he should be much too clever for that, even if he does fall for other tricks in the film.

"Build me a Mordor, worthy of... Mordor." 😂😂😂😂

Love your channel man!!! It's really refreshing to see a KZreadr commenting on movies not just by way of giving opinion but, perhaps even more by your handling the matter in an empirical, easily trackable manner. Props to your efforts for sure!!!

I’m only 55 minutes in, so perhaps you take note of this later on, but I don’t think Thranduil doesn’t care to preserve nature or Middle Earth, I think he’s in denial due to battle trauma. Remember, he was in the war that lead to the dead marshes, so he’s definitely traumatized and just trying to keep to himself, even if it’s detrimental. So that adds to some interesting aspects to his character layering

@Aranel_Alasse

Жыл бұрын

I was gonna say the same thing. His father and a huge number of the Greenwood elves died in that battle and he was there, so it absolutely makes sense that he would want to protect his people from war. The same goes for him turning back at the beginning of the first film. He was going to help the dwarves, but couldn't bring himself to lead his people into danger. So it's actually a big character moment when he gets involved in the battle of the five armies. They don't explore his PTSD in the films though, so he just comes across as a selfish douche :(

@ProjectRedfoot

4 ай бұрын

That's a good point

I actually don't have a problem with Bilbo commenting that Mirkwood "looks sick." It effectively informs the audience that people who don't understand evil magic can still feel its effects. It also arguably implies that hobbits are uniquely good at discerning these things because of their good nature.

This comment is just to say I came back to watch the last 15 minutes. Great video Charlie, I knew you'd go hell and high water over this one. Next one I'm predicting 4hrs40mins lol? There's so much to get furiously pedantic over. Catch you soon and have a lovely jolly holiday with Wife.

Another option: What if at the beginning Gandalf was the mastermind behind it all? Having failed to get Thrain to return to Erebor, Gandalf tracks down Thorin. Hires or puts spells on the men in the Prancing Pony to be threatening. Gandalf (knowing black speech) could have forged the black speech page with the bounty for Thorin on it... Can Thorin even read black speech? It could just be some old rorschach painting Gandalf had. ALL to convince Thorin to go back to Erebor.

@freemygrandma956

Жыл бұрын

This would be awesom

@jonathankool1997

Жыл бұрын

Could work for a film 'adaptation' for sure. Very interesting and not like a major twist changing the movie utterly but twist enough to be engaging! It doesnt follow the books in anyway. But thats just the tolkien book fan in me complaining. It is an adaptation afterall.

@rosiehawtrey

Жыл бұрын

So Darth Gandalf... 😳😂

@koreancowboy42

Жыл бұрын

Nah it would completely defeat the point of lord of the ring. The lord of the rings films came first of what happens after the hobbit and the hobbit films is what happens before lord of the rings.

@mharris6221

Жыл бұрын

@@rosiehawtrey The original Hobbit story was already so ruined by this trilogy why not make this "Gandalf" pure evil?

Even though Lee Pace did a fantastic job in my opinion, I still have absolutely no idea why they decided to turn the king into a douche and be so obsessed with some gems. There are parts of the movie that were directly taken from the book (Beorn scenes for instanse), but why on Earth wouldn't you do the same with the elves? Mirkwood elves are different from their kin in other places of Middle Earth and in Valinor, they have never seen the light of the Trees and they originally declined Orome's invitation to go to the Undying lands. They are closer to nature, much less civilized and more savage even, and in the book they are depicted closer to fairies from the English folklore. It was a perfect oppotrunity to show another elven faction and how different elves can be. Moreover, the king had to intention to deal with dwarves and their quest at all, he was simply pissed they crossed his borders uninvited and Thorin was cocky about that. I love the portrayal and the aethtetic in general, but the motivation is lame and seems to be a cheap rip-off of the story of Thingol and the dwarves from the Silmarillion (Tranduil is a Thingol's relative)

With the Morgul arrow...they could have just changed it to a poisoned arrow.

You could take bilbo's comment about the forest to be a liberal demonstration of Hobbits being more in tune with nature, which aligns with tolkien's letters. I never really noticed it as being odd, as it just felt natural to me that a hobbit would have a sense of those things.

Damn, I have to close that night. I'm slightly hoping it'll be less than 2 hours long because then I think I can watch it in it's entirety. Super excited. The Rings of Power series retrospective was awesome.

@idontknowyet5942

Жыл бұрын

reading this comment as we approach 3 hours

Going to state again that there are loads of Fan edits that trim this trilogy down to one long movie. None are perfect but they tend to trim most of the cringe while keeping most of the good. Just about any edit that cuts Ladylas, Azog, and the white council entirely from the movie is better than the trilogy it came from. I would recommend the M4 edit to anyone wanting something close to the book. The Bilbo Baggins edit and the Ravenomics edit are also pretty good.

I am loving this channel. Liked commented and subscribed. Keep it up man, youre channel is going to blow up soon and you'll skyrocket to 1 million subs in no time at all.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I fall asleep watching your videos sometimes, but like in a good way, as in you pointing out everything wrong with this shit and putting the writers in they're place definitely relaxes and mellows me out

The Dwarven Gold Sickness is the result of the power of the dwarf ring but i agree that without that lore knowledge it makes very little sense in the movie

I always assumed the Ring made Bilbo confident enough to take the ring off for the spider, as it seems to make people go power crazy, like Isildur

The Hobbit trilogy is fantastic if you condense it from 9 hours to 2/4 hours. That's what is so good about it. I have stopped seeing the 3 movies and now just see Fan Edits.

The contradictory worldbuilding regarding what a necromancer is and if they even exist came from the writers of this trilogy trying to “improve” Tolkien’s writings, which usually doesn’t work too well, because normally the original writer is much better at writing than the people taking issue with the writing. In this particular case, Tolkien used the word necromancy or Necromancer as a more general term for dark magic and a practitioner of dark magic rather than the more traditional and specific definition of someone able to raise the dead. For him, Sauron was a Necromancer because he could turn himself into or summon various undead creatures. And he also could access the Shadow Realm. In this movie, the writers felt for some reason they needed to fix this and gave the Nazgul a backstory that has them being specifically raised from the dead. But it doesn’t really fit in with anything even in the Jackson’s LOTR trilogy. None of the Nazgul ever died and they did not have tombs. Their physical forms slowly wasted away, thanks to the Rings Sauron gave them, which probably happened before even the Last Alliance, considering they may have likely been Numenorean kings. And the Witchking was defeated by the men of the north. But he simply fled back to Mordor. And he actually accomplished his task, which was to topple the northern kingdom of Arnor. He wasn’t even at Dol Guldur with his master. He was down south, making trouble for Gondor and preparing for his master’s return to Mordor. I don’t think lore breaks are necessarily bad, but this one was ill-thought out and ended up making more problems than it supposedly solved. Like how did Radagast even see the wraith? Only a practitioner of dark magic or someone with a talisman that conferred that power onto the bearer, such as Frodo with the One Ring, could do that. And I have no idea where that tomb is supposed to be. The kingdom of Arnor encompassed the Shire. So either the Men of the North dragged the bodies of the Nazgul halfway across Middle Earth and over a mountain range to bury them near Beorn’s house for some weird reason or Gandalf went all the way back to the vicinity of the Shire. It could be the Barrow Downs. But that’s not what they call it and it’s not what it looks like. Also, the prophecy about no man being able to kill the chief Nazgul was uttered upon the Witchking’s defeat. I don’t know how anybody could say that if men had already killed him.

I, like so many others, have been looking forward to this for quite some time. Ironically I just finished my week long endevor of watching all of the extended edition Hobbit movies 2 days ago so this is really great timing ( It seems I missed your "upcoming" announcement ) so this is a nice bit of serendipity. Anyway thank you so much for taking the time to watch these movies, write your script and post this video on KZread. I'm excited

The “white gems” aren’t mithril, they were a necklace Thranduil had commissioned for his wife. “The White Gems of Lasgalen were fashioned by the Dwarves of Erebor for the Elven-queen of Mirkwood. However, the queen fell in Gundabad and never got to wear them. Her husband, Thranduil, came to Erebor to retrieve them, but due to a dispute over payment, was denied them, leading to a severing of his alliance with the Dwarves of Erebor.” This is actually a reference to the first age and the Sindarin King Thingol of Doriath and the Nauglamír.

I think Smaug knew where the Arkinstone was the whole time and deduced that Bilbo was going after it. Bilbo doesn't find the Arkinstone until Smaug does his flourish to show off and brings Bilbo to the spot it is. Then he "accidentally" keeps knocking it around and sees Bilbo chasing it so it confirms his suspicions of Biblo. And he smells the Dwarves so he puts two and two together. And of course at the end he isn't surprised that the Arkinstone is there with Bilbo he just starts talking about it like he know it was there the whole time. This theory also pulls in a book quote that said that Smaug knew where every piece of treasure was in his hoard so when Bilbo took the cup the first night as proof of his burglarly to the Dwarves Smaug noticed it was missing and was able to confront Bilbo on the second night. I believe this aspect is still present in the movie Smaug eventhough it isn't directly spoken.

Fair play on the KZread algorithm for pushing this. I like long formats and your style is very appealing. Funny, critical, fair and very personable. Look forward to seeing what else you cover

You've done a great job with this analysis/review of these movies, it was both deep in content and entertaining. Hope to see some more good stuff like this in the future.

@Kernwadi

11 ай бұрын

I also hope that with time you'll grow your subscriber count, because you deserve it.

@NobileFanfiltr

9 ай бұрын

@@Kernwadi would be difficult since the skills or charisma are not there

That Arkenstone sure seems important. I can't wait to see what the dwarves do with it by the end of the triogy.

The lightest person crossing the path first COULD HAVE made sense. You might want to do that in case lots of weight destroys the path for everyone else. Of course, this is COMPLETELY negated by all 13 dwarfs then trying to go simultaneously, with the heaviest one being further ahead of some of the lighter dwarfs. Really liked the video, by the way.

Seeing this in theaters even with the cool line the cliffhanger felt like such a blueball. At the time I was under the impression that Smaug would have a bigger role in the final movie since he was being hyped up as the big bad since the 1st movie. Instead killing Smaug felt rushed and tacked on like an afterthought and they needed to get it out of the way so the rest of the plot of the 3rd movie could take place. They should have had the razing of laketown/Smaug death at the end of this movie instead of at the beginning of 5 Armies.

@Joe45-91

5 ай бұрын

Yep. I was under the exact same impression

@your.dark.lord.

3 ай бұрын

Absolutely. I still remember the giant groan from the audience when it ended so abruptly

3 days.....? I could get to Khazad Dun from Lindon in that time 😭😭😭

@thesaurus9226

Жыл бұрын

HEY! Young Elrond didn't go from Lindon to Khazad Dum, he went to Ost-in-Ethil first!

51:50 so this is where Rings of Power got its plotline of contrasting the lifespan of dwarves with Elves for whom decades are nothing😂 (the Durin & Elrond contrived initial conflict with no consequences) And I made the mistake of thinking those showrunners could intelligently create an original plotpoint through judicious use of their brains & Tolkien's lore alone😂; they had help from the Desolation of Smaug. I can't wait for the Battle of the 5 armies to see how much Payne & McKay ripped off that as well😂. I also can't wait for Rings of Power season 2 to get more memberberries

Looking at your work, I think you'd fit perfectly on EFAP. Long form analysis is what people there love. Maybe we'll see you there one day, would be really fun.

Actually those gems of “starlight” are actually gems that were presumably brought over from beleriand by thranduil father or his wife’s father. They were given to the dwarves to be fashioned into a necklace for thranduil’s wife. But his wife was captured and killed in gundabad before it was completed. Thranduil went to retrieve them, but as we saw the dwarves requested more payment than previously agreed. Thranduil refused and thus his pit of anger was formed as he was so stricken with grief. @Random Film Talk

Elves being extraordinarily good at things that can be reasonably practiced over several hundred years (i.e. accuracy while moving, general agility/dexterity) is a fun part of the world. Elves doing things they would be unable to practice or prepare for (nailing orcs while jumping off of people's heads while floating down a rapidly flowing river) is just immersion breaking

Man, the seasons change fast in Middle-Earth; it seemed like a cool, late spring in the woods, and then suddenly it's the middle of January on the lake. Or was there an extended section of them floating in barrels for months, eating raw fish they snatched out of the water with their bare hands? Also; "Only a black arrow can pierce dragon scales. Watch as this black arrow fails to pierce dragon scales."

How does Smaug know Thorin's last name is Oakenshield, if Thorin got that last name during the battle of Moria which occured after Smaug forced the dwarves from Erebor? Did someone break into the mountain to tell him? Or did Thorin already have that last name, in which case, how much of a coincidence is it that the guy named oakenshield managed to use an oak shield. And on the topic of people breaking into the mountain to talk to Smaug, who is breaking into the mountain to talk to Smaug to set up his alliance with Sauron? We don't seem to have any implication that he's getting visitors, so where's he getting his information from?

@lovablesnowman

9 ай бұрын

It doesn't seem unreasonable to assume that Sauron can communicate with other evil creatures through evil magic or some shit

@reginaldgickington4793

9 ай бұрын

@@lovablesnowman Yes and no - it's not the most unbelievable thing that he might be capable of it; but the fact that he had to use the Palantir to talk to Saruman, who was another powerful wizard, implies that he can't just psychically communicate with others. I think the only person who seems to be capable of psychic communication is Galadriel.

@dylancross1039

3 ай бұрын

According to another comment, it was 170 years between Erebor being taken and his death. He hadn't been seen in 60 years. 110 years is plenty of time for him to learn of Thorin's new nickname.

the side door was mentioned as secret that would allow Bilbo to get in undetected. The front door would have lead you directly to the dragon. At least thats what i understood.

The attempted kill Smaug sequence is definitely a pick-up-shoot. He picks up his conversation with Bilbo as if there had been no interruption. When they realised they were doing 3 films, they needed a climax for the second.