Medicine bags, or lunch boxes; (with contents inscribed here)! Bird, Swine, Critter, etc.

@guyanaspice6730

2 ай бұрын

True. Great interpretation. Obviously, it was More than just a bucket. Symbols associated with it have meaning. That's a great Abstract interpretation you made. Brainstorming is good IMO. I just see too many similar things in places far away to think it's independent. This would be too Concrete thinking. I'm not a Hancock or Jungian Collective Unconscious supporter. Man shared Important techniques for a long time in many places.

marvelous job , cheers!

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

3 ай бұрын

Thanks!

The idea that they were representations of bags full of seeds, with piercing at the bottom, would make some sense - I've seen similar contraptions in the garden sheds of people I know! And the symbolism of spreading seeds to bring life from the earth would fit too. Prof. David Miano did a video on his World of Antiquity channel on these handbags recently - he didn't say anything about spreading seeds though. He's an expert - I most certainly am not! In fact the idea only just occurred to me about two minutes ago. ;-)

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

7 ай бұрын

Yes. I like that Miano video too, which is why I linked it below my video description.

@ktiemz

7 ай бұрын

There is no evidence that the people who built these structures were deliberately planting seeds though (to my knowledge) and were only taking advantage of wild species. Also, the animal iconography in each top right corner does not align with these images pertaining to agriculture.

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

2 ай бұрын

Actually, that's not entirely true. Certainly the people at Göbekli were at least harvesting lots of wild seeds, but the newer analyses have now tentatively identified some domesticated plants too. I mention them briefly in my Open Archaeology article (www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/opar-2022-0317/html)

V kultuře a civilizacích, mluvíme vždy o určité organizovanosti skupin, které se potřebují pro vzájemnou komunikaci rozlišovat a mít vymezený prostor. Neolitická kultura se vymezovala kruhovým prostorem a identifikovala reliéfy zvířat a kabelkami. Historicky reliéfy zvířat přešly až do záznamu jména a příjmení v matrice, záznamu prostoru v katastru a obojího na dveřích obydlí. Abychom snadněji pochopili vývoj neolitické symboliky, musíme přejít k pozdějším, početně větším kulturám např. mezopotamské a sumerské. Reliéfy zvířat přešly až do lidských postav se zvířecí hlavou. Přibyli bohové (zakladatelé) rodu s náramkem, v jedné ruce mají šišku vždy nahoře a ve druhé kabelku vždy dole. Šiška pokorně mění i polohu ze svislé na vodorovnou. Obecně šiška symbolizuje vědomí a pokoru k nadřazenosti přírody nad člověkem. Z matematicko-geometrického hlediska jsou šupiny šišky uspořádány do logaritmické spirály. Piniovou šišku vysokou 4 m opatruje Vatikán dodnes, aniž by se vnímal její symbolický význam jako pozůstatek neolitu. Kabelky dokumentují stav rodu a mají vlastnosti zlatého řezu; plocha zlatého čtverce bývá rozšířena dalším zvířetem až do zlatého obdélníka. Rukověť má tvar polokružnice, která spojuje vlastnosti čísla pí se zlatým řezem. Kabelky poskládané za sebou určují po sobě jdoucí generační cykly. Reliéf bývá doplněn stromem života, který dostal v Egyptě vlastní symbol. Dnes vzniká otázka nakolik je symbolika záznamu vědomá a nakolik intuitivní. Vnucuje se i myšlenka na civilizační posun, kdy rozlišení rodového stavu zvířetem, až do stavu, kdy se zakladatel rodu stal bohem a nakonec člověkem, který vstal z mrtvých a vstoupil na nebesa, kde je dodnes.

Great video boss! 🙏💪

Whatever they represent they should be looked at by also including the other images into the interpretation of what they may mean. They must be connected in some way, otherwise why would they be on the same pillar.

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

20 күн бұрын

You bring up a good point. A thorough interpretation would take all of the imagery into account. However, it might be very difficult to do that, as the birds and other images have so many potential meanings. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try, and taking into account the other pillars, for context, would also be a good idea.

I have seen many handbags also carried by ancient kings (carvings) from all over the world! At time 4:46 I can see 3 sorts of birds on the lower right, a Vulture, Duck and Flamingo and a strange hooked beak bird playing football :)

I think they're just car doors, telling the story of that one-time, there was a deer in the road, and it hit the windshield. Oh. And then once we hit a great big bird! ... And then Grandpa hit a.... Since these are potentially a people, first looking to become future agriculturists, i tend to see the weave patterns as bundles of wild grains they've harvested, with the three bags indicating their type or location of the grains, or perhaps a grain sacrifice to particular deities. That's a completely speculative and fantastical imagining though. ...unlike my car door theory. 😉

@lairdhaynes1986

7 ай бұрын

Car doors seems plausible.. 😉😄

@chucklearnslithics3751

7 ай бұрын

@@lairdhaynes1986 if there's one thing I've learned from the scholars of alternative history, it's that, if it looks like something I can imagine, that's _probably_ what it is.

@lairdhaynes1986

7 ай бұрын

@@chucklearnslithics3751Almost like it's like the inverse of Occam's razor.

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

2 ай бұрын

This is the "looks like a duck" approach to ancient art that I discuss in my video on pseudoarchaeology

I enjoyed your video, but I have a question on your theory; Why would the relief carvings include a "void" in the roof? Should it not be solid when viewed in profile? They could have also incised a motif in this area to indicate a thatched roof.

@lairdhaynes1986

7 ай бұрын

I had the same thought. To be clear, I'm not here to defend "handbags". As symbols, they are sufficiently vague enough to be interpreted in a number of ways all of which could be entirely wrong. Even a symbol with known meaning can a have more than one meaning ascribed to it so context can often be of great importance when it comes to interpretation of any particular symbol.

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

7 ай бұрын

That's a very good question, and of course it's possible that my interpretation is just as incorrect as the others that have been offered. However, it's also possibly that the artist is doing a sort of combined inside/outside view, what some analysts of rock art call "X-ray" views, or is attempting a sort of perspective that's different from our Renaissance-type perspective views (i.e., trying to show a side view and a top view or inside view at the same time). However, that interpretation would be stronger if the artist also tried to show the two largest pillars inside. I think we'll really need more examples before we can be very confident of how to interpret these things, but personally I'm not convinced by the basket/handbag interpretations, let alone some of the more speculative ones.

Hi. Everything is much simpler than it may seem. All animals on the pillars represent the terrain, that's why these animals look so strange, because they are symbolic representations of hills, mountains, and so on. The well-known "bags" are waves, the small animals above them represent the destruction these waves can bring. So the pillars are a map of the terrain and "bags" (waves) warn people that it's dangerous there. If you open Google Maps and look thoroughly you can see it. Good Luck.

The symbols illustrate the pot holes used to lever out the blocks. The wave lines above it are the grass surrounding the quarry. The mound is illustrated below, off in the distance from the blocks. The animals surround the landscape. All things that would have been in the field of view of the person represented by the pillar.

Can you explain how they date civilizations they find? Found it on your site any more comments will be under the video on dating. Thank you for your effort.

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

6 ай бұрын

I'm glad you found the one on dating

Could The gobeki Tepe objects be waves. Them being a dwelling or a directory towards a certain places. Makes the most sense Out of all other theories Ive head

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

2 ай бұрын

I'm not following what exactly you mean here. Maybe explain it a bit more?

@romanferko805

2 ай бұрын

@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 Hi. I think he means this kzread.info/dash/bejne/eKycptybnqexo6Q.html&ab_channel=HermanLewis

the "animal" on the basket flat area is a headless human. My guess. The vulture holds a human head on it's wing. perhps the "basket" holds human heads. Perhaps the grain like pattern is a harvest and the three images, basket-grain- vulture (ball) are linked to ritual human sacrifice

The difference between the global bags and these, are these have an animal above each one, and to the same side of the handle..

These container type objects appear in the artwork of different people all around the world. They are very similar in design. The big question is why is such a mundane everyday object so important, and why is it so important to various people all around the world? Were the carvings all connected by a common thread? If so, what the hell was it?

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

20 күн бұрын

Maybe they are just mundane objects. It's really only modern observers who are claiming they're "important." Imagine if some future civilization notices that there are thousands of images from the 21st century, from all over the world, that depict automobiles. Does that mean that 21st-century people worshiped automobiles? Or that they were a metaphor for the cosmos? Generally, the simplest explanation - that they were just mundane, everyday objects - is better than a fanciful speculation.

the handbag means they are caring knowledge to give to the people .

Imho, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be representations of the temples for a number of reasons. The difference in height between the pillars doesn't allow for such a parabolic arch. but i really like the effort, and we certainly cannot exclude this theory

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

7 ай бұрын

You certainly have a point, but it's also possible that the artist didn't need to show realistic proportions to get the meaning across to his or her contemporaries, who of course would have had much better familiarity with whatever was meant than we are.

The bird character at the bottom looks to be holding a ball. Also looks to have teammates. Maybe that was an image of the bird clan going to play ball against the " fox " and "frog" clans. The "handbags" show the "clubhouses" with each teams mascot. Just a thought to consider.

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

5 ай бұрын

Interpretation of that circle makes at least as much sense as some of the other interpretations on offer.

It's not a basket It's A ton box with handles FACT

I don't believe the "bags" are showing the buildings, although a great theory, the emptiness between the "handles" and the "bag" are not mirrored in the buildings. You say there would have been a roof and I believe you are correct, it makes sense, but not a roof with open sides?

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

3 ай бұрын

You have a point, and others have also pointed that out. And you could be right. I admit that mine is also just a theory. However, it's also true that different cultures have different artistic conventions for showing things, sometimes even showing the inside and outside of something at the same time, rather than perspective views that we might expect. Australian aboriginal art, for example, has "x-ray" views of people and animals. And you should check out how ancient Egyptian artists portrayed large, multi-room buildings (showing the "behind" or "inside" view above the front view).

It could mean a traveler…most possible local ppl who met global travelers got fascinated so to carve stones with them on

The handbags mean that their travelers were

the bags are symbolic of scales and measures for trade.

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

2 ай бұрын

Well, as noted in the video, there are probable weights that look a bit like this from Iran, but they're much later in date and currently we have no good evidence for standardized weights to use with beam balances at such an early period.

@guyanaspice6730

2 ай бұрын

​@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 man was Seafaring to Cyprus circa 10,500 years ago. Some very intelligent people. Plus, research has been ongoing on Crete, n islands, on the neanderthal tools 130,000 years ago. They weren't able to See the islands. Dating is inaccurate on All topics I mentioned. 130,000 years ago and improvements and more inventions did Not occur???

It would be exceedingly difficult to mount an argument that these representations held no significance for anyone at the time. So, how were they significant - - at the time?

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

5 ай бұрын

Certainly no one is saying that they have no significance. The question is what that significance is or was.

@wiv2631

5 ай бұрын

@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 I speak American English and you speak British English, but I think we are more or less saying the same thing. Additionally, I wished to imply that their use was so remote in time that their usage might be incomprehensible to us presently. If anyone is interested, I can tell you about a primitive method of planting grain seeds in Central America. A similar appearing bag is used for the process.

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

2 ай бұрын

Actually, I speak Canadian English. But I agree that they could have significance that would be difficult or maybe even impossible for us to figure out today. But I still hope that we will eventually find some clues that make their meaning more intelligible.

You said you would make a video ty

Those handbag carvings are found in Mesoamerica even in China. These all prove the dating system that we came up with 150 years ago and the paradigm of how man expanded across the continent is falls.

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

14 күн бұрын

I would challenge you to point out any from Mesoamerica or China that are exactly the same and, in any case, the idea of having an artifact that is roughly rectangular or cylindrical with an arched handle is hardly rocket science. Any culture could easily come up with that on its own (I have several buckets in my garage that could easily fit the bill). Either way, they say nothing about dating systems.

@Mike-hr6jz

14 күн бұрын

@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591 and I challenge your authority as a “expert“ you have quite a cottage industry and telling people what happened thousands of years ago even if the evidence does not support it, don’t believe you’re lying eyes only believe us, experts, right .that’s what you were saying no thanks

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

12 күн бұрын

I am precisely trying to assess these claims with evidence. And when I do offer what is only my opinion (as in the buildings hypothesis), I say so, and admit that there are other possibilities. And you still haven't answered my question: what are the same carvings you claim exist in Mesoamerica and China and what do they have to do with dating systems?

Looks to me that the basket handles are "homes" you have a cliven hooved animal a bird and one I can't make out. These are classifications of animal life that humans base the clan systems on. You see the background resembles a net, showing how all life is connected. At least that's what I felt upon seeing it. I could go on. I'm well versed in the topic. So here is another opinion thrown in

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

5 ай бұрын

Thanks. This is largely what I was arguing in the later part of the video.

As the ancient Mesopotamian story goes, Ninurta (the God of Agriculture and Science) descended from the Heavens to share his knowledge of cultivation with humans. These bags are possibly representative of knowledge. The elephant not in the room is the human head, but the globe represents a form of something the human head carries:- the totality of soul+intellect which gods can interact with at a higher realm while the material world shown below is cyclical - scorpion represents that - and human life goes on from generation to generation through reproduction, and is carried(protected) by another bird, which again is representative of a metaphysical being. These birds are the proto-forms of gods that evolved into many forms and shapes in following millennia through different cultures.

@fennynough6962

7 ай бұрын

Another reason for the One & Only: [God Almighty]; to dismiss these mythological, heathen cultures.

They are the huts of the town

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

7 ай бұрын

That's a good suggestion. Aside from the big "temples" at this site, there were apparently a lot of small, hut-like houses that these could represent.

Is it beyond comprehension that humans all over the world might decide that a light weight hollow thing with loops on top for your hands to go through might be useful for carrying things? Is humans wanting to carry around more stuff than they can cup in their hands less likely than aliens or Atlantis?

@ktiemz

7 ай бұрын

But, these are clearly skilled artists who would assumedly know what a basket looks like and who are clearly capable of carving stone no problem. Why would the handle not extend to the right side like a regular basket? Unless they're a symbolic representation or some sort of object we aren't familiar with. I'm not convinced they're baskets.

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

2 ай бұрын

As you'll see at the end of my video, I don't think they're baskets either

I must say I don’t believe your theory had many plausible points in this case …. I’m I to assume that you’re incorrect on all your other ones… no. Appreciate your work

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

Ай бұрын

Thanks for being open-minded, even if you don't accept my hypothesis. I will admit that it's only a hypothesis, and it will require a lot more evidence before we can understand these enigmatic things with very much confidence. That being said, I don't think the "basket" or "bucket" hypothesis is very good either.

In all the Sumerian, Arcadian, and Babylonia writtings, your telling us that nobody wrote down what they were for if they weren't important. Maybe now that Archaeologists are starting to translate some will have written it down.

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

18 күн бұрын

I'm not certain what your point is, but maybe that Sumerians and Babylonians wouldn't have to explain to viewers/readers that something in a piece of art was some mundane object that their contemporaries would easily recognize. For example, nobody has to tell us what a mailbox or a cell phone is, and they don't require labels if they're depicted in art. In any case, Göbekli Tepe probably has little to no direct connection to either Sumerians or Babylonians, as they're separated by many thousands of years.

@N9YSQ

18 күн бұрын

That's what I'm saying. If it was important for some reason. Wouldnt somebody have recorded in writing? Kings and priests often had scribes.

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

17 күн бұрын

They did. But, again, they wouldn't necessarily label something that was well understood by everyone at the time, even something important.

Intuition tells me what they were trying to convey was that the gods dumped water/the deluge...its depicting the deluge flood

Not knowing the NITHRA You will never understand Hypothetically you can not just make it up no matter how much you studied.... FACT

For a practically identical symbol to appear in the Middle East and in Mexico in a time span of about 2000 years. Well, that's too much of a coincidence..

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

3 ай бұрын

Well, obviously I disagree. First, they're not "practically identical" and second, even if they were, it doesn't take much imagination to make an object with a handle on it. Presumably, people all over the world independently figured that out thousands of times.

@guyanaspice6730

2 ай бұрын

​@@thearchaeologistslaborator6591I wouldn't say Identical, but very similar. One can't just take a Single Object/Symbolism without considering other Similar Art throughout the world. I like your analysis overall. But id have to disagree somewhat on you saying Cultures Independently invent things all the time. Yes, they do. To a degree this is true, but many times people are sharing technology; art; symbolism... Science even tries and finds these connections. Plus, man in different areas of the World putting these Same objects n more in Artwork is a Completely different Importance. In addition, finding similarities and contrasts are involved to reveal sharing through migrations from certain People And Times. Done ALLLL the time in research. No. I'm not a Graham Hancock supporter of his Bantering on Space Aliens; or Cataclysms to End the world. He does serve a good purpose that gets people inquiring; hence, wanting more research which is good for the fields.

If it was the cosmos, then wouldnt it make sense that god or god's were carrying the earth with them. I prefer the berries explaination, stop off at the convience cave to get a snack on the way. You just cant see the water canteen.😂😂😂😂

Archaeologist constantly have to defend reasonable explanations from the Ancient Aliens and Graham Hancock crowd. Obviously, those are submarines used by the giants of Atlantis!

@thearchaeologistslaborator6591

5 ай бұрын

Nice...

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamandalu