You don't hate localizers enough, you may think you do, but you don't

@Dinosaurwith42heads

5 ай бұрын

My hatred could fuel Las vegas for 3 years.

@MasakanSolaris

5 ай бұрын

I don't think I'll ever "Hate" localization just because the ace attorney changes hold a soft spot in my heart

@GeraltofRivia22

5 ай бұрын

​@@Dinosaurwith42heads Mr House thanks you

@Bulletsforfree

5 ай бұрын

My hatred for localizers fueled my motivation to study japanese even harder many years ago.

@masterofsloth4349

5 ай бұрын

​@@MasakanSolarisi don't see much people complaining about ace attorney localizition i wonder what changed from original

"With localizers, you're getting fan fiction." And that's in the best of times. Because more often than not, it's straight up Hatefic.

The idea of "some jokes or phrases don't translate so we need to take liberties..." is offputting. The consumer knows they're engaging with Japanese media. That cultural exchange is part of the experience. In taking liberties, localizers are basically saying audiences are too dumb to put in the work of actually understanding what they've signed up to experience. Not to mention, the English language is particularly flexible in adopting difficult foreign terms into itself. Wabi-sabi, Schadenfreude, and more.

@floofyboi7546

5 ай бұрын

The more I learn the more I think these localizers are just straight up racist against Japanese artists and creators with how determined they are to “fix” their work

@TombaFanatic

5 ай бұрын

Wordplay is a decent example of this being fine. You can translate literally and put a note at the top of the screen explaining that this was a pun based off of the characters in a name. Maybe i'll learn something, but it won't be funny. Changing to joke completely so that we get wordplay in English might do better at conveying the feeling even if they have to take liberties in what is being said. That being said, most of the time I agree that if something doesn't translate well it can be best to just use the japanese word and let the audience pick up on the meaning instead of trying to awkwardly fit in English words that approximate the meaning.

@WoodEe-zq6qv

5 ай бұрын

@@TombaFanatic Even the wordplay stuff is too much IMO. Example: When the main character of the show/light novel Bakemonogatari first hears about someone with the last name 'Senjougahara' he asks: "Who is that? Or rather... where is that?" At the time I had watched it, I didn't know much Japanese. Obviously the wordplay falls flat. But this lead me to google it, upon which I found out the name essentially means "Battlefield" also alluding to a real place where, legend has it two powerful Japanese spirits fought. This detail, which hints at many parts of the character's story and attitude, would have been lost to me if a non-literal translation was employed.

@GELTONZ

5 ай бұрын

EXACTLY! We've fully embraced terms like "Senpai" and Japanese honoriffics! Cripes I remember when they dubbed Magic Knight Rayearth and decided to turn the "-chan" suffix into "-ster" so "Fuu-chan" became "Fuuster". Because it was the 90s and they thought people wouldn't understand. But somehow, at some point in time, we all learned how Japanese honoriffics worked and they actually got kept in translations. Which, as someone who has been watching anime since the 80s, is just WILD to me!

@NoraNoita

5 ай бұрын

@@WoodEe-zq6qv that's what 'TL Notes' used to be for, but since there aren't anymore translators doing actual work here anymore, we lost them in translation.

The fact that there are decades worth of games that need retranslations and are unlikely to get them due to their age and the localizations already existing is excruciating.

@ryszakowy

5 ай бұрын

give it some time AI will translate

@DMAN99

5 ай бұрын

When you think about it, the entire Pokemon franchise is forever tainted and probably will never recover. Almost every pokemon, character, location, etc. Does not use their actual names and instead uses a localised name instead but because all of these dubbisms are so ingrained in the west you'd never be able to change it to the real names without a massive amount of pushback. Just look at Ryuu Ga Gotoku studios finally changing the Yakuza franchise name to the original, correct Like a Dragon name, there are still people who get butthurt about it because "That's not what the series is called".

@alogarfen9

5 ай бұрын

I think all you really need is decently competent AI and the 1 editor to accurately translate 1 game. So when AI gets to that level all we really need is to make a forum dedicate to the job and have some content-creators spread the message.

@firstnamlastnam2141

5 ай бұрын

@@DMAN99yeah, there's that famitsu book from around when gen 1 released and it treated pokemon more like yokai and it being in the real world. I assumed it was just dropped later, but now I'm having doubts.

@lunatic0verlord10

5 ай бұрын

Well, AI can do that.

This isn't even a new problem, either. The original Godzilla way back in 1956 got this same corpse stitching treatment when it was brought to the US and changed from thoughtful commentary on nuclear weapons, war, and the nature of civilians caught in the middle into a generic monster movie. And I will say, there ARE instances where translation teams simply didn't have enough time, money and resources to do the source material justice. The fundamental flaw is that companies treat translation as a cost of doing business, instead of their actual business. If companies understood that the quality of their translation is why anyone pays them, they'd take it more seriously.

It really doesn’t surprise me that a lot of localizers don’t speak Japanese. I remember once reading an interview with someone who worked as a translator for Funimation in the 2000s. He described the process as “he would do a faithful translation which would be passed off to writers who would then punch up the dialogue.” I wonder how many of these places have a similar system where there’s both a translator and a “localizer”?

A lot of these localizers are really just xenophobic but repackaging it using weasel words.

@emilytheimp

5 ай бұрын

Ahaha weasel words? Like ferret, stoat and mink?

@comyuse9103

5 ай бұрын

i don't know how well it'd go over with some audiences that might be watching; but i have been saying these people* are just conservative reactionaries raised under a different set of rules. they have almost the exact same mental devolution that the cons show; they abhor sexuality, they believe in rigid gender roles, they can't process art as something meaningful, they can't separate fiction from reality, they have gut reactions that they will never question, they have rigid in groups and out groups, they believe strongly in an undefined and unearned hierarchy (or at least, they show signs of it by holding some people up as moral arbiters), they use morally acceptable language to couch ideas, they have a weird love for corporations, and i'm sure i could go on and on. * meant as a broad section of places like twitter, not localizers specifically but they do fall under the umbrella.

@ryszakowy

5 ай бұрын

@@emilytheimp like "feminist" "patriarchy" and "mansplaining"

@emilytheimp

5 ай бұрын

Youre funny, those arent mustelids at all

@digitmidget6973

3 ай бұрын

Patriarchy is my favorite animal!

The only thing I'd ever wish upon localisers is a 1-1 meeting with the works respective author. How quickly buzzword bingo smugness would dissipate & how they're totally fans of the work but needed to surgically pick it apart as much as possible

@SergioLeonardoCornejo

5 ай бұрын

That's what has to be done. To get authors against them. It has happened and has worked. Authors don't like it when someone else alters their work.

@CheekyHussar

5 ай бұрын

@@SergioLeonardoCornejo I'd just love to see that "I'm a woman deal with it 😎" type smugness be juxtaposed with how antsy they'd probably get lol Can't imagine how you'd get across "yeah I love your work I just think _____ " A: you're an asshole/bigot so I changed a good amount of it B: that I'm a better writer so I upgraded it for you =)

@paledrake

5 ай бұрын

@@CheekyHussar The #1 response to anyone saying "I'm a better author, so I changed it for you." should be "Okay then prove it and go make your own IP and make it more popular than mine. Then I'll believe you."

@CheekyHussar

5 ай бұрын

@@paledrake desecration is always easier than creation You tell these people to write something, they inevitably eat their fucking fist & say some shit like "if you're (insert whatever demographic they consider bad) don't watch/read/play" No-one checks their work out and then obviously their reasoning for that is some big phobia or ism lol

@dekufiremage7808

3 ай бұрын

Gonna be honest, most authors don't really care that their work has been changed when being converted into another language that they don't speak. The vast majority of the time, they just blindly trust that any alterations made were necessary to help the work sell in a foreign market that they aren't familiar with. Most of them won't really understand when their work has been coopted or bastardized unless it is explicitly brought to their attention and comprehensively laid out. Even if sales are somehow massively affected, that can be rationalized as the story not working well for a different audience.

When I found out about all of this it's the same kind of shock as realizing you've been gaslit. I now imagine back to so many games I've played thinking certain parts of the story or dialogue were strange, but now I have to look at it all with a lens of "Is this what it is suppose to be or is this the localized version?" It's all so tiresome.

@DMAN99

5 ай бұрын

Think about it like this. Most people grew up with a version of Pokemon that does not match the original, the majority aka Normies think of the localised version as the "Real" version because they have an emotional connection to it from childhood. They don't care about the "real" version because the Localised version *is* the real version to them. They don't want the real version because it's not *their* version. It's the sad truth, some people will stare at the cave wall, never wanting to see the outside.

@ltb1345

5 ай бұрын

Same.

I was unaware of the changes in TWEWY but it makes so much sense now. I remember rolling my eyes whenever memes were mentioned because it felt so out of place. Such a shame that talentless people can just come in and change things for no reason.

@guigondi7671

5 ай бұрын

i played the demo and thought the dialogue was bad....i was wondering if i had grown out of it by any chance... So glad there might be a version of the characters that i can enjoy, even if it is in a language i don't understand yet.

@paledrake

5 ай бұрын

No wonder the new TWEWY sold so poorly, the localization scared away any new overseas fans and maybe even existing fans of the original.

@Gnarfledarf

5 ай бұрын

In a way, one can take it as inspiration, as this shows that even I, a humble internet shitposter, can be a "localizer".

@killred-40

5 ай бұрын

​@@Gnarfledarftrue, true. I need to start localizing classic English literature to be expedited to other countries. Lord of the Flies will be much better now under my watchful eye. The characters will now say "yeeted" and will crash land in Ohio. Trust me, it'll be better this way.

@Gnarfledarf

5 ай бұрын

Simple past of "yeet" should be "yote", present perfect should be "have yought".@@killred-40

If there is one thing I can thank localizers for, it is the fact that they are motivating me to not give up on learning Japanese. I want to get to a point where I can just buy the original game and not worry about localizers.

@DimitriMonroe

5 ай бұрын

Spite is a very powerful motivator ! Speaking form experience

The funniest thing is that this problem is mostly focused on the US branches of companies. I've seen major differences in FF7R and FE Engage between the english voices and the italian translated subtitles as one example.

You never fail to make me hate localizers more

@GELTONZ

5 ай бұрын

I always thought my hatred of localizers was overblown and unreasonable. I'd like to thank this man for reminding me that no, my hatred is justified and really it's always possible to hate them more.

@neutronshiva2498

5 ай бұрын

Wokelizers

@mistake1197

5 ай бұрын

@@neutronshiva2498 the first time use of that word is accurate.

The irony of it all is that all these changes localizers make to make the characters more "flavorful" are made only after they've removed all of the flavor the characters have in Japanese.

@mauricesteel4995

5 ай бұрын

their idea of flavorful is washing the dish in water and then plaster it with Ketchup, Mostard and whatever sauces they like that week.

@Kokuto_Cinoten

5 ай бұрын

​@mauricesteel4995 I'd like to add that the original flavor was Wasabi, but they couldn't take it so they washed it then put ketchup/mustard instead

@LadyBern

5 ай бұрын

Reminds me of someone who shared a Japanese inspired recipe with me. They didn't have sesame oil or rice vinegar but told me that they substituted with vegetable oil and regular vinegar, telling me it was just fine and they liked it better. I looked at them in aghast as they had removed a good chunk of the flavor from the dish and preferred it to be more bland. Same thing with curry. Curry made for westerners with the extra hot label is mild as hell. This fits with what the localizers do to a t.

@KirbyFanDude

5 ай бұрын

@@LadyBern If you mean Japanese curry rice, that's always mild as hell, even if you import it. You can just add some cayenne or dried chilis to your roux if you need more spice for it and it does the trick just fine. Indian and some thai curries are usually much spicier.

@LadyBern

5 ай бұрын

@@KirbyFanDude no not Japanese curry rice. I like Aroy-D and Mari brand curry paste. I got Thai Kitchen once and I had to dump so much hot chili powder into it to finally get a kick. But now I have shichimi togarashi, I was not prepared for that. I looked it up before I bought it and nothing said that it was spicy or had a kick. It's been many years since a spice blend made me cough and made my eyes water. That is a very unassuming spice, it doesn't even smell like it has heat to it.

Granblue is one of my favorite examples here. Had a discussion about its localisation on Twitter after CensoredGaming highlighted the "Simper no Simping" line. Several people mentioned that their non-english localisation is fine and that they actually like it a lot more than the english one. Apparently, everything besides the english one was machine translated...

@hassanico9999

5 ай бұрын

Do you think you could drop any links to non-English versions/equivalents/comparisons?

@iamLI3

4 ай бұрын

the enemy is trying to kill us with cringe and i think it's working....

My main issue with "localization" vs translation is that I don't seek out foreign media intending for it to be like what I'm used to. If I listen to a song written by someone from India, I don't want to erase the culture they put in their song and have it be replaced with American culture. I want to experience some of the culture they put out there, partly *because* it won't make sense to me as someone whose life experience has been with almost exclusively American culture. Ironically, 29:07 almost perfectly describes what I mean: "Localization teams" appropriate the cultural exports of another country, sanitize it of its original context and meaning, and replace it with the culture their audience has seen their entire lives. It wears the skin of Japanese culture with little to none of its substance. It's cosplay, but they bought the costume off Amazon.

Localizers have burned every bridge with the fans, it is no wonder people don’t feel bad for them.

One of the things I hate the most about american localizers is that their translations are often used by other countries, so their bullshit spreads way beyond just the USA, there are studios who make direct translations from japanese, but is not always the case and that's the worst.

@popers1328

5 ай бұрын

Big shout out to Tokyo Mirage Sessions which got a remake on the Switch but both the Japanese version and the English version are based on the censored English version so even the Japanese version is censored. The only way to play it uncensored is the Japanese Wii U version which doesn't have the added content from the remake.

@juanrodriguez9971

5 ай бұрын

@@popers1328 that's so hilariously stupid I can't help it but get extra mad at translators, I used to be against AI taking over jobs but those morons make a very convincing counter argument

@lunatic0verlord10

5 ай бұрын

@@popers1328 Though admittedly, the Japanese Wii U version has stuff that no other versions have.

@ltb1345

5 ай бұрын

@@popers1328 Worst localization ever.

@thehachirourex-ou7te

3 ай бұрын

Yeah I hate when they do that I am not American I live in Malaysia and I always get the Americanization in everything especially when it's not even there really

People wouldnt be so for localizers being replaced if they werent so damn prideful and annoying Ill give 4kids one thing, their target was kids and as such their translations always bordered on cringe and funny rather than agenda pushing and flat out ignorant

@GeraltofRivia22

5 ай бұрын

4kidz was extremely dumb, but it wasn't malicious like moder localizers.

@sdbzfan1

5 ай бұрын

@@GeraltofRivia22 exactly

@Zetact_

5 ай бұрын

4Kids is actually overall a mixed bag. They tend to range from ironically fun to actually good. While they botched a lot of localizations you can't deny that for, for instance, OG Yu-Gi-Oh and the first season of GX they did a superb job of adapting the story. It's true that like Kaiba's personality comes off a bit different in the dub like having more disdain for Joey than original had for Jonouchi he still is fundamentally himself and the entertainment value is pretty great. Some of the dubisms like the Heart of the Cards or more specifically the Shadow Realm were so good that not only were they barely noticeable as changes (because they fit the story perfectly and capture the same sentiment arguably better) but they've entered into the greater zeitgeist and people will often make references to it in general when talking about card games. And as a guy who watched GX both dubbed and subbed at different instances I have to say that it's hard to really hate the dub, at least in the earlier comedic seasons where the dub writing worked. "Manjoume Thunder" for instance is a catchphrase that is LITERALLY impossible to translate, and going with "Chazz it up" kept it snappy and iconic. The dub changes even in the later seasons where they don't fit in are charming, if nothing else. Does "Chazz it up" remove some of the context of the catchphrase? Sure, but that was unavoidable, the original line was based on two separate types of wordplay specific to Japanese.

@michaelclifton9498

5 ай бұрын

I remember their dub for shaman king being pretty decent

@MegaGlassguy

5 ай бұрын

4Kids removing the guns in that one Yu-Gi-Oh scene resulting in Kaiba yelling "You won't take me alive!" and jumping off a cliff because 2 dudes pointed their fingers at him is peak nonsense comedy. I'm not saying that was the right move, even with the intent behind the change, but it's at least worth a good laugh.

Haven’t seen the video yet but it reminds me of how a Japanese rpg was localised with a “this is why you don’t do direct translations” joke Except for the fact that the translation wasn’t even a direct translation and they made it sound worse just for the sake of the joke

Making that universal complaint form to send directly to the Japanese studios and Authors was one of the best things we ever did. Seven Seas has gotten rocked so hard by that over the years. ;)

@comyuse9103

5 ай бұрын

wait, there is a universal complaint form?

@GuiltlessGear

5 ай бұрын

yeah, dish

My biggest problem with modern localization in anime is a trend that I noticed about 5 years ago. The biggest mistranslations in dialogue seem to happen when the characters are speaking are off screen and there are no lip flaps. You would think that would be the area where the most accurate translations would happen, but no. It's one of those subtle things you won't notice at first until you watch most anime in subtitles first, accurate subs of course, then watch it in the dub. Once you pick up on that, you can't unsee it.

You had a bit of a missed opportunity in talking about Blaustein's self-importance and changing scripts to suit himself, because you didn't even mention how the guy changed the names of items in other games to reference his family and friends, which is something else he bragged about at one point. In particular, Castlevania Symphony of the Night has the Materialise Cube, a relic that you obtain early on which causes hearts to start dropping from destroyed candles. In English it's called the Cube of Zoe; named after Blaustein's daughter. This led to English players wondering who Zoe was and why their cube would have such an effect; a question that naturally had no answer in-game.

@iamLI3

4 ай бұрын

this makes me exceptionally mad.........

Thank you for bringing up how it's always been this bad. One of their favorite defenses is that "localization always been like this but you were okay with it before!!!", as if that makes it valid. It's like the passage of time doesn't exist for these people. Like we were never ignorant children at some point. Like the infinite well of knowledge known as the internet has always existed and we all had access to it this entire time.

Funny how localizers complain about AI defiling art when they are infinitely more guilty of doing that.

4:47 This is one of the things I hate most. When the idea that the changes are so small it that it "doesn't matter." Often used as a way of throwing the whole discussion out the window (usually said after the defenders of said localization have clearly no good argument for a bad translation). The truth is that the small changes are arguably the worst problem because they add up so fast. Honestly seeing all these examples makes my blood boil, knowing that the argument in favor of them is most often "it's basically the same thing" or "why do you care?" or some other disingenuous way to gaslight people questioning localization. Terrific video Dimitri, as much as it hurt my soul to see all those examples in the video, I couldn't look away. Let's hope Asmon watches this because I believe it does a great job catching everyone up to what's been going on in localization for a while now, and also shows examples of things I wasn't even aware of. God, I hate localizers even more now.

@MegaGlassguy

5 ай бұрын

While not for translation this reminds me of how this exact excuse was used in the remake of the game Sam & Max Save the World, after the studio promised there would be no alterations to the jokes in the game but got caught on changing several of them (curiously, this included censoring the jokes about skinheads and creeps pretending to be young girls on the internet). Videos like these only further make me realize just how deep the western rot has gotten in the industry. Can't even trust 'em with their own products, how can we expect them to handle others' work with care?

@tacticianAlexandra

5 ай бұрын

Which the funny thing is, this is story telling. We are talking about. Where a change or two, that can seem minor. Can have a massive effect on everything else. For having a character learn a new power out of the blue, during the middle of a fight. Can break a whole and make it seem like pure nonsense. While a character combing two of their attacks together, to create a new one can come off as clever, without breaking the settings power system. To use somthing else, like say magic. Ah yes the fire mage lure the party away, to a great heat source like a volcano. That makes their magic stronger. Which makes the fire mage seems smart and intelligence. Now remove that bit about their power becoming stronger, due to luring the heroes to a great heat source that fuels their magic. Suddenly, you change the context. To random nonsense power up or make it seem like the mage was holding back until they reach a battlefield of their choosing. It truly does come off as dishonest by the translators. When you take the moment to think about how even small changes, can have massive effects.

@N12015

5 ай бұрын

@@tacticianAlexandra Or are actually miinor details who change nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I much prefer the method of not trying to localize stuff that can't be translated and instead having a translators note on the top of the screen giving context. It helped me understand so many Japanese specific jokes in Gintama.

@sdbzfan1

5 ай бұрын

As someone that reads eminence in shadow, i couldnt stand names being translated just so people could understand the joke, it'd be better if they left it alone but gave a note the first time so you'd understand but not be distracted by the subtitles

@erejnion

5 ай бұрын

Everything can be translated. English is a rich enough language. These people however don't even want to try and will hide behind "Buuut it can't be translated!" when called out.

@masterofsloth4349

5 ай бұрын

Lookalizers forgets one important detail not everyone is american

@sdbzfan1

5 ай бұрын

@@masterofsloth4349 more like not everyone is from California

@masterofsloth4349

5 ай бұрын

@@sdbzfan1 yeah they have some weird utopian mindset

12:25 - a good counter is: "if they're so minor, then changing them to 'literal' translations wouldn't matter either, right?"

@DimitriMonroe

5 ай бұрын

Absolutely, I think I talk about that in my Global standard video but should have been mentioned here as well

@DMAN99

5 ай бұрын

Reminds me of Raceswapping "logic" that I hear twitter users use, like "Them being changed doesn't change their character, so why do you care if they're black now?" because if their race doesn't impact the character, why change it in the first place? If they didn't change as a character, why was their race so important to change, hmm?

@Groundash

5 ай бұрын

Yep. The correct response to "it doesn't matter" is "then why do it?"

@inendlesspain4724

5 ай бұрын

@@DMAN99 It suddenly matters to these people when it's from black to white; I've seen it in fanart. Hell, it doesn't even have to be a full-on raceswap, just coloring a black character a slightly lighter shade is bad enough for them.

@DMAN99

5 ай бұрын

@@inendlesspain4724 oh yeah, I’ve seen that. People who don’t understand how lighting works and even calling out the official promotional art as “whitewashing”, it was Genshin with the tanned blue haired dude. The funny thing is I’ve seen artists draw various anime characters and crank their skin tones up to hilariously dark tones like Usopp, Luffy, Nico Robin and Law from One Piece, Deku from MHA, etc. The funny thing is, when you think about it, by race swapping a character they’re essentially saying that the characters original race is lesser than what they swapped them into, because if it was fine then why change it? Shifting a white character into a black character just reinforces this idea that a black character is somehow better than a white one. Which is literally racism.

Looking at both Palworld and this situation, it's quite funny how people on the internet will desperately try to label something they dislike as being associated with whatever is considered to be the big bad of the month (in these cases, AI). It only shows how little their hatred is actually justified for those things.

One of the biggest gripes of western localizations which a lot of enablers never take into account, is the fact that a few egocentric americans are making the basis for the rest of translations the world is going get; based on their personal beliefs. Companies are cheapoes when it comes to making translations into multiples languages, they prefer to use the easier-to-translate english localizations. The Spanish, Italian and French speaking world with a greater history of consuming Japanese media than the USA are left to swallow their censorship and local references despite also being different cultures. Japanese companies going for the ''AI assisted'' route to translate their works to foreign markets not only could reduce the amount of middle men laying their fingers on them but also benefit their customer base with simultenous and accurate translations.

@belstar1128

Ай бұрын

reminds me of that time i watched i Russian voice over of a German dub of an Indonesian movie with Romanian subs .

Here is a neat little tidbit about nob that most people miss He used the wrong homonym in "faint attack" It is supposed to be "feint" because the jp name is sneak attack To make matters worse -the pokemon card versions were always spelled correctly -there is another move called feint that is spelled correctly -this spelling mistake would not be fixed until AFTER his departure Feel free to remind him of this next time he is a diva on twitter

I think another subtext of the topic at 23:30 is that ANN often acts as a localizer for stories they scrape fron Japanese news media and fan blogs. Many "news" articles are not researched, full of errors, and just loosely paraphrase a single source.

Good timing. After the whole situation got attention again, resulting in the translator going after Asmongold, I've seen some people play it of as people "refusing to let some silly lines from 2017 die", but videoes like yours help show that this issue is even greater than most people are actually aware of. Keep up the good work!

@MegaGlassguy

5 ай бұрын

I saw some guy insisting that localization has never been better if that line from 7 years ago is the only ammo we got. Seems like it was merely the starting flare.

I remeber river city girls zero getting a literal transation hidden in the langauge option and there was outrage from translators. I didn't play the game myself yet, but it's telling that we can't even have a direct translation adjacent to their work.

@MegaGlassguy

5 ай бұрын

Yeah I heard of that too. They were mad that people were given a choice as they saw it as a sign of distrust. Aged like a beautiful wine ain't it.

@bigkspicy8257

5 ай бұрын

Having an option to turn on the direct translation is genius actually! If it's really true that "Our localization improves on the original text!" and "Direct translations are unreadable and flavorless", then obviously players would switch to the "Localized" version of the script over the direct translation, right? No, that's not happening. They know exactly what they're doing. So insane how they want to wield their monopoly of information over the fans like we're all confused children who desperately need moral guidance from enlightened Twitter doomscrollers 😩

It shouldn't be understated how effective contacting the japanese firms and authors can be, they often see their work as an extension of themselves and their experiences. Imagine writing a heartfelt story with characters or story beats that reference you or your close ones and some priveleged calli mouth breather thinks it's not reddit enough, changing it and forever besmirching your legacy.

I'm so glad that you mentioned Azure Striker Gunvolt. One of the major selling points of the steam rerelease was, mentioned literally, a more accurate translation. Aside from what's usually mentioned, it also has the worst fake swearing I've ever seen - "What the gack?" it makes me break out in a cold sweat just typing it. It's unbelievably awful.

I recently rewatched all of the previous localization videos in anticipation of this one. It's good to see a sense of forward progression carried through them, like an ongoing story being told.

Localizers brought this to themselves, I hope they go bankrupt and that "localization" becomes a thing of the past

24:13 really hit the nail on the head. If an interpreter for a politician or diplomat made their own changes to what their client is saying, they would be fired ASAP.

@Th3GAMP

5 ай бұрын

Same for techincal manuals, and all field of translation outside of entertainment, only here these arrogant valdalizers think that they're entitled to the work that they're "translating"

@bigkspicy8257

5 ай бұрын

Exactly! What could amount to a massive scandal and treason charges in one field is, apparently, something to brag about in another field. 😑 These localizers put up a front of smug bravado, but do they realize just how much the ground they stand on has eroded from their own drooling? If they insist on abusing and disgracing their own vocation, then someday they will have nowhere to return to.

@Th3GAMP

5 ай бұрын

My other comment was deleted lol

"With those things, we'd like to make it more culturally appropriate" Wait a minute

@bigkspicy8257

5 ай бұрын

That's too perfect wtf 🤯

Thanks for bringing even more attention to this problem. You had a lot of great examples of poor localizations and localizers being smug assholes.

You're a hero for bringing such comprehensive and insightful arguments into this debate. I've been checking some of your other videos as well. You deserve so much more growth and success.

@DimitriMonroe

5 ай бұрын

Thank you that means a lot !

20:06 Kinda supports a theory I've had rolling around in my brain for a bit. I think a lot of the quote "woke" politics aren't directly decided by the company, it's just they don't care what their employees are doing. As IP monopolies with no conpetition, these companies aren't lean and efficient, constantly forced to cut bad employees and hire better ones, because small ineffencies don't result in tangible sales drops. These companies are slowly allowed to fester with bad choices and when it finally hits critical mass, the company is so rotten it can't pull itself out of the tail spin. With no price signals, every rung of the corporate ladder suffers no punishment for the inefficiencies of those under them, and so they just make things less effort for themselves by allowing free reign. That's why management often didn't care when the problem was brought to them, it was just less effort to do nothing

@zanlancer4426

5 ай бұрын

Oh, it’s you! I’m happy to see you here as well.

It's really strange how all these entertainment industries here in the west, that hate their audience, are all populated by the same phenotype.

@marxxplaysgames

5 ай бұрын

Power hungry, elitist, egoists?

@sapphireeniigma-8027

5 ай бұрын

How about we look who’s funding them

@GodOfOrphans

5 ай бұрын

Because there's a genetic component predisposing certain people to the ideology and I'm tired of pretending otherwise, also it's an ideology that encourages specific lifestyles that take a toll on a person's looks among other things hence why they look so similar even if they weren't born with the look.

I'm glad you dedicated time to highlighting the sheer lack of skills of some of these localizers. Yes, often stuff is mistranslated intentionally, but almost just as often, they simply suck at their job. An anecdote about that, featuring DYKG and Nob Ogasawara that you brought up in the video. In one video series, DYKG hire Nob Ogasawara to translate a previously untranslated, Japan-exclusive Pokedex. In part 2, at 16:10, they translate a comment by Satoshi Tajiri, the series creator, and show the original text on screen. In reference to Poliwag, who was Tajiri's favorite Pokemon and is known as Nyoromo in Japanese, he says "ニョロモをかわいがってね." We'd typically translate that as something along the lines of "please treat Poliwag with care." Nob translates this as Tajiri saying "I wanna snuggle Poliwag." There's no quirkiness added. There's no political reason to do this. There's nothing sensitive to hide. Nob is someone with literal decades of experience. The original text is visible for all to see in the video, and it's even in just basic kana. Yet he messed up the translation. Changed the subject and the verb to something different, changing the meaning. One time they let the viewers compare his translation to the original in those video, and it's wrong. These localizers just suck at their jobs, beyond all the malicious stuff.

We live in an interesting era. For a long time after 4Kids fell, it felt like proper dubbing was actually being done. Things actually looked good for a while...and then accuracy went away again....

@belstar1128

Ай бұрын

yea for a really short period in the late 2000s to early 2010s but then America went crazy maybe in the future things will be normal again

I love the little pop-ups in the corner with the titles of the background music used in the vid, awesome touch

@DimitriMonroe

5 ай бұрын

Thank you !

"Ah yes, American jokes and cultural standards. That's exactly what I want out of my Japanese media." - No Body, Esq.

Its kind of funny to see Asmongold covering this situation a bit. It is pretty funny watching the reaction of some of the localizers about it too. It really put more eyes on the situation, even if only temporary.

As a former localizer, it pains me to see what these few but popular, self-proclaimed "localizers" are doing to the reputation of the profession. They are doing what in translation studies is called "hijacking" the texts, which essentially means to warp their meaning to suit one's own agenda. Localization in itself is not wrong though, and when done right (which often takes a very balanced dose of creativity and humility) can serve to enhance the audience's experience of a media product. Perhaps one of the best examples of this are Pokémon names, which can't really be left in Japanese unless you want them to be 100% opaque terms for a majority of the franchise's audience (much of which belong to younger demographics), nor translated literally if you want them to sound remotely appealing. This is the case for the many Pokémon called after Japanese onomatopeia, since written sounds have a huge cultural weight in Japan that can't be found in languages like English, hence the translation, for example, of "Karakara" (in Japanese 'sound of bones rattling') to "Cubone". So to add to the video's final message: you can be mad at a few localizers, but don't be at localization!

@LoliconSamalik

5 ай бұрын

I can understand pokemon to an extent, since lots of them are based on japanese puns. Those clearly do go over a kids head, so they do become required to change in every language, with the few that are too legendary getting a basic translation. (which has the inverse effect of making Pokemon more ecological, which the series doesn't shy away from) But it's when phrases and lines that are more easily understood by a more scientific translation getting changed for dumb reasons or dated additions that we end up having a problem. And that's like, most of what comes outta japan, especially for an older audience.

I played Ghostwire Tokyo and there’s a bit where the ghost mentor says that “all property is theft” that immediately raised my eyebrow so I checked online and of course nothing in the original was about that hell the Chinese version done by the Government wasn’t so on the nose

I'm so glad you're still covering this. NEO TWEWY was one of my most anticipated games for the switch. I got the switch remake of the first game, absolutely fell in love with it, and wanted more. So for the game to have been bastardized like this was outright insulting. Now that the game has finished its relevancy cycle, it's not going to get re-dubbed or updated any time soon, so we've essentially been robbed of the TRUE game in favor of that goofy side-cut fudge-smear-stache soyboy's sucky parody. (yeah I've got a bone to pick with him specifically).

Honestly thanks for actually rectifying what ai translation is. Because aitrans isnt just all ai, its actually mtl with curation. All you need is 2 person to do so, 3 or more if the content is very dense. In small works, you have 2 people, the machine translating the work and and then the reader fixing grammatical error, this has been done before modern localization with foreign vn and HILARIOUSLY eroge Ideally localization is a group project, the translator, the original writer, and the proofreader. But because the localization job is done by one guy, Id rather work with barely legible mtl than bad localization. Heck id rather just have the game raw, text hooked, and do the translation myself because i can finally excuse my 3 quarters of japanese.

Even if something is sexist or otherwise in japan, let it be sexist elsewhere too so it can be judged on its own merits

As far as I'm concerned, the AI is always preferable to a 'localizer". An AI can always be changed and improved, something these people are incapable of.

@lunatic0verlord10

5 ай бұрын

Which is why the world's better off without such "people".

@ThanatosZero

Ай бұрын

And then approciate changes can be made, where it stays faithful, even if non-translateable jokes/puns would need a replacement. Best case is, if our language have similiar word plays with the same meaning. Otherwise if it doesn't change context, a compromise can be done.

Normally, I'm against AI just replacing jobs that can be done perfectly well by real people. However, with localizers having some of the biggest egos on the planet, while not even doing their job halfway correct, I genuinely think there's a possibility that the world would be a better place if a computer handled anime localizations.

@CheekyHussar

5 ай бұрын

As much as they "progressive wash" their antics aswell, 🤔 it's funny how it comes off completely the opposite if you give It thought "Oh these backwards Japanese and their language. Let us elevate it to modern standards" It ain't too far off the "machu picchu/pyramids must've been alien" logic aka "if I didn't do it it must be wrong/unachievable somehow "

@MrJigglebits

5 ай бұрын

This change might have been staved off for maybe another 3-5 years if they just did their job, and especially didn't brag about mishandling of the content. Their actions only accelerated Thier demise.

@ZnamTwojaMama101

5 ай бұрын

Have the ai do translation and a translator to check if it's correct.

@-lord1754

5 ай бұрын

Not just anime. Things in general tbh

@colinstewart3531

5 ай бұрын

@@ZnamTwojaMama101 The localizers basically do that, with a few extra steps. In actuality, the localizers admitted they don't know Japanese and depend on AI to translate it to English before localizing it.

I was always for MTL because for someone like me who reads so much light novels it's kinda a requirement, but I'll tell you, with the new horizon of chat GPT style MTL where contextual languages like Japanese are actually becoming readable so much easier I'm a full supporter. Yeah I appreciate changes sometimes that make more sense in english but we're not in the world where the debate is "should it be onee/onii-chan or brother/bro - sister/sis" it's now a debate of, "should it be my what a lovely day or my what a lovely day, at least it would be if it wasn't for the patriarchy still existing." Of course if you look at the current nepotistic state of coders all this means is we'll start having to sift through which AI MTL is designed to remove "risky" translations and which ones aren't, such is life.

It's not that we think machines are ideal. It's just that we hope they'll get rid of the malicious elements in localization. However, I suspect it won't be nearly as easy as replacing them with machines. I suspect they'll still make changes whenever given the chance. What we need is to make Japanese creators develop an aversion to these people to the point they can no longer enter the trade without learning to respect the source material first.

@neronthetyrant

5 ай бұрын

Delusional. If you think some sort of fandom purity test is required to localize a piece of entertainment, either do your own translations or find of the many fansub communities that exist and get them to sub your desired material. However you gotta understand that as localization demand grows, the less "fans" you're going to have working on it, because there just aren't that many "fans" that have the required skill and want to do this as a job. If you personally dislike the people doing that job, then either do it yourself or find a community you approve that will. Western localizers gain exactly nothing by not doing what YOU personally prefer, and if they replace localizers with AI, it certainly won't be because some minuscule % of a fandom complained a lot, it'll be because it saves a lot of fucking money.

@SergioLeonardoCornejo

5 ай бұрын

@@neronthetyrant ok, tourist. Respecting the source material is not a purity test. It's literally professionalism. Which is the problem with these localizers.

@chaoschalice

5 ай бұрын

@@neronthetyrant good stop paying people who aren't doing their job properly, you say accuracy? but they literally changing context of the story

@Genesjss

5 ай бұрын

​@neronthetyrant He never once mentioned that future translators/localizers need to adhere to some "fandom purity test" as you call it. He stated that "we", as in people who don't like the blatantly malicious translations being made by the localizers, hope the malicious elements of localizers' translations get removed as a consequence of Japan further adopting machine translations over exclusively human translations, even if its unlikely to completely remove the localizer's ability to mess with the translations in some way. He states his belief that the best case scenario for future would be for it to become mandatory for future translators/localizers to be respectful to the source material they're translating in order to keep the amount of malicious actors within the field to a minimum. Again, no mention of following some sort of "fandom purity test". Don't go putting words into other people's mouths. If you're going to respond to what someone else says, try to accurately represent what it is they've actually said, otherwise you'll just waste everyone's time.

@michaelhall736

5 ай бұрын

​@@neronthetyrantYou're the delusional one. We never said anything about a purity test. We just faithful translations with no political rhetoric or dead memes, or talking about Gamergate.

People who make every aspect of their life and personality about their activism that they can't even separate it from their job that is detached from said activism probably won't do a good job....

@bigkspicy8257

5 ай бұрын

You're so right. People thinking every waking second of the day should be used for political activism are delusional! Sometimes I forget that, due to how inescapable politics has become. Thanks for being a breath of fresh air.

This has reaffirmed my decision to keep reading fan subs while I wait for my robot overlords

You touched on it a few times but what really does hammer home the intent behind everything they do including the job title change is their obsession with being part of the creation process and latching onto projects like parasites. Localizers really are just a bunch of failed writers or people too devoid of imagination to make something themselves so they just try to co-opt, subvert and drag down the hard work of other people.

@CheekyHussar

5 ай бұрын

Unironically narcissistic traits lol, the sense of self importance With some cultural chauvinism sprinkled in obviously. The idea that whatever the hell they end up writing in their isolated wealthy western bubble is actually the gold standard for millions of audiences

I spent a long time huffing the copium, saying "Oh, it's not _that_ bad". But after seeing how these people truly are, I can no longer defend them. I don't think AI is the solution, but maybe it's a step in the right direction if it gets rid of some of the rot in the localization scene.

I just recently discovered this channel, I watched some of the older videos, and honestly, Dimitri seems to be the kind of person who would 100% percent support and benefit from all the things the progressives and the alphabet mafia push for, yet he puts art integrity, respect for fandom and love for the medium above his political beliefs and identity, we really need people like this in cinema, animation and comics.

@Lisa_Minci96

5 ай бұрын

The most based femboi (TM)

@GELTONZ

5 ай бұрын

That would, of course, require the alphabet mafia to actually believe and mean the words coming out of their mouths. They SAY they support LGBTQ people but in reality they just want to colonize their community and turn them into political tools. I'm so glad this guy can see through the endless lies.

@luminous3558

5 ай бұрын

Not really. You have to understand that alphabet mafia isn't supporting anyone. Its all tools and you will be discarded once you aren't useful anymore. Effeminate men have it really bad in that worldview right now as everyone tries to gaslight them into becoming trans while also disregarding their opinions because they are men. Even being gay isn't enough anymore as you gotta be willing to date trans people and support the full commie playbook or else you aren't the right kind of gay. Thats part of the reason why LGB is trying to split off from the T. Intersectionality doesn't work for nuanced issues and will bring the whole thing crashing down.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the ghost stories dub. The fact they told the localized to do whatever the hell they wanted made for a very interesting official experience… but I feel like that dub also gave localizers a bad mindset of what they want to do with their jobs. Sure, not every American who watches that media will even know or care, and the jokes the create can even be funny. But censoring someone else’s work because you don’t agree with their culture or think you can do a better job is very “cringe and beta”.

Reverse 1999 uses AI translations for their dialogues. Afterwards, they hire VA's to read those lines. Twitter adores this game and the screechers haven't caught up to this fact yet.

I actually was intending to buy The World Ends with you Neo, but about 14:30 in hearing how badly it's been changed. I took it off my wishlist, it's no exaggeration to say this stuff ruins games.

@popers1328

5 ай бұрын

Awesome! I didn't buy Tokyo Mirage Sessions or it's Switch port for this reason.

@LoliconSamalik

5 ай бұрын

@@popers1328 I ignored the TMS port when I saw they didn't delocalise it, since that's part of the reason why it failed.

Wow, I knew there were problems in localization, but to see so many games I have played on that list, its just infuriating. How does this type of intentional incompetence become so widespread?

@lunatic0verlord10

5 ай бұрын

Because we haven't done the right thing to get rid of these things in human skin.

About the section in regards to the German translation of Pokémon R&B, I just agree with him when it comes to the names of most Pokémon (there are so many that are just the name of the animal + random combination of letters without meaning, such as Taubsi [Pidgey] which comes from Taube = pidgeon + si, Tauboga which comes from Taube + oga, being that the name only gets a meaning in Tauboss = Taube + boss), and other times are literal translations from the English names. IMO, the best localisation of Pokémon is the French one. The localiser tried to make the names and puns in the Pokémon names make sense, adding including references to mythology. An accurate translation for the Pokémon names wouldn't actually work, since we have many Pokémon that are TOO LITERALLY NAMED: Koratta (child mouse) = Ratatta, Kodakku (duckling) = Psyduck, and the legendary birds are literally called Freezer, Thunder, and Fire respectively. I don't think using these would work.

As a translator myself, I have a few things to say about the video. First and foremost, I'm from Russia and I work with English and Russian as my language pair. This whole American localization debacle is sort of funny to watch from the sidelines, because over here we have very different issues plaguing the industry (those being terrible hiring practices, low pay, and so on). One common problem we have though is something that I've only seen brought up in this video while 99% of the people are absolutely lost in the sauce of the political debate, and that is the fact that most modern translators are just plain incompetent, and that's mostly 'thanks' to two factors. The first one being that the translators get paid peanuts, so either you are just very passionate about your craft (like those animators in the anime industry) or you're just a hack trying to make a quick buck at the expense of the client who doesn't know better. And the second one being rampant nepotism and complete lack of professional ethics. I've been following the who JVN scene since like 2011 and Steiner and all other people who are now in 'respectable' localization positions in companies handling Japanese media all come from the cesspool of fan translation and are still just glorified fan-translators to this very day with all the baggage being a fan-translator involves-be it hubris or disregard for the source material 'for teh lulz'. I'm pretty sure if I were to count, just the fingers on one of my hand would be enough to list all the actual professionals working with Japanese media in the West nowadays. And that's the root of the problem. Everything else is just a consequence of that. P.S. One thing you are definitely wrong about, though, is the fact that translation is much less of a creative endeavor as, say, painting, since painting is also a highly technical field where a lot of things can be measured objectively, and to be a translator one needs to have the creative writing ability similar to an actual author, just without the worldbuilding part. I despise the American localization standards and people working in the industry, but part of the reason why translation is like that is because it is considered a 'simple and inferior' craft compared to its adjacents in the creative field. As someone who's been a freelance translator for 5 years, I can definitely say that being a good translator is at least as difficult as being a good actor, and that would actually be the closest creative craft to translation, come to think of it.

Translation is not an art form, translators ARE NOT artists. If they were artists they would make their own goddamn art.

@lpfan4491

2 ай бұрын

It's an art in the same way science is. There is some variation to the approach, but there are still fundamentals to be followed. Making something up is ideally only done when you hit a genuine untranslatable.

Localizers are the reason I'm learning japanese, I've been becoming more and more distrustful with each incident. At least machines aren't going to try to push their personal politics onto the media I consume.

@Unapologeticweeb

5 ай бұрын

Same I'm currently using Duolingo and after worths I'm going to try some actually language programs so I can avoid this crap

@DimitriMonroe

5 ай бұрын

@@Unapologeticweeb I strongly suggest setting up Anki, and maybe picking up Tae Kim's Guide to Learning Japanese that's where I started. Duolingo is okay as a companion but I don't find it that useful on it's own.

@Jobocan.

5 ай бұрын

@@DimitriMonroe What decks do you recommend for Anki?

@DimitriMonroe

5 ай бұрын

I have my own at this point but I started with refolds, I believe theres a publicly available "top 1000 words in visual novels" deck as well, thats probably also good. Regardless use that as a starting point and add more from your own studies.

I personally am of the camp that 'Localization' is something that needs to be applied only when a direct translation isn't possible (different Japanese dialects, for instance, which really can't translate into English, for instance, or Japanese specific wordplay), and should strive to stick to the spirit of the work. There are very, VERY few exceptions (the only one I can name is the original Yu-Gi-Oh, where some of the localization changes were actually really fitting, and even THAT has its issues) and, above all else, faithfulness to the adaptation should be paramount, even if it's 'offensive'. If you go completely off script, it should only be with the owner's permission. And I doubt they'd give permission to blatantly shove in western politics when they weren't there before.

@lpfan4491

2 ай бұрын

Tbh, I feel as though even the author of a work should not be allowed to screw it up without being called out. There is the infamous Altria-situration in the Fate series.

@LordTyph

2 ай бұрын

@@lpfan4491 obviously, but I'm not sure that's the same subject.

@lpfan4491

2 ай бұрын

@@LordTyph It is related. A good amount of altered localizations are infact done with Creator-approval...because the creator does not know the correct thing it should be. Sometimes it is the creator selfsabotaging and pushing for the wrong thing, sometimes they are fooled by the localizer. Same overall result in the end tho.

By the gods, old and new! That is a metric ton of receipts. You're right, i don't hate localizers enough.

Keep fighting the good fight man. That was a wonderful thing to say, about doing it for each other. I want to keep fighting so everyone can experience truest form of the author's work we can get. Art means so much to me and I thank you for talking about this. I'm gonna go learn some japanese i think.

@9:21-.-I like how the dialog meant to make the text less r#cist makes it more possible that the character speaking the line is r#cist.

All my homies use “localizer” as a slur

I vaguely remember reading this one manga, where an entire fucking chapter was a joke of a translation. Like the entire bits had poor translation, the fucking roblox oof head when a character falls and more. That it had people drop it, and next chapter was a proper translation.

I’ve been rewatching the first few seasons of My Hero Academia with my brother, I’ve noticed that anytime the words, “guy,” “girl” or what have you would flow naturally in conversational English, the localizers always use the word “person” in the text, very blatant lmao.

This is a must watch, thank you Dimitri.

I like how you much value you place on talking about these sorts of issues given that the oppositions strength is largely to scare people into not speaking up (see how the guy from the Marchie clip get more nervous as he asks a legitimate question). It can't be understated how good of a job you have done in putting the case people have against localisers so succinctly and with so much backing and research behind it. Well done.

Another great video, Dimitri! As to the initial question, actually yeah, I can think of a book translation being refered to as a localization. But it's an oddly specific thing, and it's very hard for me to explain because it's about the initial polish translation of Frank Herbert's Dune. Hard to explain because I'm the only one speaking polish here lol.

@adzi6164

5 ай бұрын

yoo, Amel

Funniest thing is when they argue me that i don't know how hard localization is and how necessary is to make those changes, when i've been translating comic from spanish to english for a decade XD

Your videos are great but they also always fill me with rage about the topic. Thank you for the great video but also curse you for making my day worse at having to see/remember all this horridness.

EDIT: And this is what I get for replying before finishing the video. Thanks for covering this one. It made me...unreasonably furious. Especially because I waited a DECADE for a new Protect Me Knight and got THIS disaster. (but the original Japanese honestly doesn't imply any gender, which makes it even worse) 8:40 BRIAN GREY?! Isn't that... *checks* OF COURSE. That's the guy who mangled Gotta Protectors as well as the original DS version of Azure Striker Gunvolt. No joke, in Gotta Protectors he added in an extra text box to rant about straight white men, completely changed the "Mama/Boss is Coming" screen jokes, and made a bunch of other weird changes. He also made a guy "Bi Gendered" and used Zhi/Zhir pronouns in the first localization of Gunvolt which has since been redone. For the record, the line in Gotta Protectors was originally: Fairy: A hero is coming! Princess: How will I find them? Fairy: They'll be here soon! to Fairy: A hero is coming! Princess: How will I find her? Fairy: Um honey, it's the 80s. It's a HE. And he's white. Except when he's Asian. It's complicated. Fairy: He'll be here soon. I could literally spend an hour ranting about how awful this one line is. The fact that Siliconera repeatedly praised this localization as being "genuinely funny" disgusts me. Can't help but think he's friends with the people there considering how much they talk him up. And yeah the other big change (there's a ton of small ones) was the boss is coming screens. It actually dates back to old 80s PC games in America where there was often a button in games to bring up a fake spreadsheet screen in case the boss walked by. It was largely a joke. It was revived years later in Japan in lewd games like Gal Gun into the "Mama is Coming!" screen which brings up a more innocent looking game screen at the push of a button. Usually a pixel art RPG. Gotta Protectors, being a pixel art RPG-ish thing, inverted it and so when you press the button it brings up a lewd image of the Amazon that makes it look like a hentai game. It also had traditional spreadsheets and the like too. The localization changed this to pixelated video game magazines and bad web comics with one of them being a barely clothed male Fighter on the cover of a lewd magazine with a box of tissues next to it. Ha.

The idea that localization is just an ever present thing you won't stop worrying about has hit me recently. I have a friend who likes yuri material and specifically light novels and gushes about how certain snippets she shares with me. But either because it comes off as overly localized or I can just feel like wording is off with how it's delivered I just instantly default to someone got their dream project to further hone into their perfect gift to all yuri lovers. But I also know lots of yuri and BL stuff is very cringe inducing to those outside of the niche so I can't know for certain it's just not reflective of the media. So I'm cringing at writing, but am I cringing at the artist and the tropes of the genre or someone changing things to fit what they want?

I wasn't aware that Animal Crossing's unique holiday names were a localization only thing. I figure that since it's always been this way over here, that's more of a holdover from the era where avoiding religious and foreign cultural references was the standard to prevent controversy. Although, when you think about it, wouldn't it make more sense for the countries where the holiday is commonly celebrated to gets the holiday's original name, while in countries where the holiday isn't celebrated or is taboo in some way gets the "off-brand" replacement name?

Localizer - an idiot who has one of the most easygoing, chill professions in the world, getting first access to entertainment their customers would kill to have and also having a direct line with the creators of said entertainment, and instead of just simply being a bridge between the cultures, they act like vandals, tarnishing the work they "improve," morphing other people's work into their political statement, and actively ruining what is supposed to serve as escapism.

With regards to the faux benevolence of the localizers in question, an old CS Lewis quote came to mind: "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." Maybe that's not entirely applicable, but I always get the sense that these localizers feel that they are morally enlightened compared to the rest of us and the original Japanese authors. I do not, as the pinned comment suggests, hate them though. I simply wish to see them replaced by those more capable and less arrogant.

I played three houses in Chinese and pretty similar to the Japanese so I'm taking it back by a lot of the stuff they changed in the English dub. There's a good reason I don't play these games in English nowadays

Localizers were the only option we had, and so they abused that power to insert their political view in places that it didn't belong. Don't get me wrong, i do not care about politics, gender, race wars, or any of that. I just want good localization, with the meaning kept as vanilla as possible, and if the solution is to get a pure ai translation, so be it. What the localizers involved in the drama were doing was atrocious. Japanese creators learned about it and were outraged at how butchered the content was.

29:58 "i am a funny woman" 💀

@mauricesteel4995

5 ай бұрын

"Any man who must say he is king is no king at all"

Localizers will 'add flavor' to a story by turning genuinely funny/sweet character moments into Marvel quips that are so bland and generic they don't even land with their own audience of Redditors.

When it comes to terribly localized games, I put Fire Emblem Fates right up there. It's baaaaad. 😭😭

@comyuse9103

5 ай бұрын

people are out here bitching about dragon maid and the patriarchy, meanwhile just the mention of pickles gets me furious now.

As an avid fan of the Utawarerumono series, the translation overall is quite good, but I did notice some things off myself while playing. Can’t remember them, as it has been a few years, but I still recommend the games and their translations. And I only recently got in to Granblue Fantasy Versus, but I could feel how terribly the lines are translated, especially for the Bros-whom are still my favorite. "W00t w00t" is just off to me. It really annoys me how people think they can just alter media to fit themselves, when their job is absolutely to convey the author’s work in a way as close to the source.

@DimitriMonroe

5 ай бұрын

Yeah they're definitely not worth skipping over, that section was based on subtlety for a reason. Would say most games have stuff on that level.

I hate localizers so much that it has killed my ability to be empathetic to an entire industry losing their jobs to A.I. This is even considering the fact that I have serious concerns regarding the ethical use of A.I. as a technology more broadly. So yes. I hate localizers about half as much as i should. But my hatred is a work in progress currently.

AI is not the alternative people who just wanted what is accurate to the original - but, after the years of ham-fisted "Localization" and forced political agenda and erasure of character traits. People no longer care localizers lose their job to AI. They spat on fans, belittled the original creators. They hated the original and took their positions to "Fix: what wasn't broken. No one should have sympathy for them, This is the future they strived for. As they told fans themselves If they want to keep their jobs I say the same; Learn Japanese then.

@DMAN99

5 ай бұрын

Definitely a "Better the devil you know" and a "lesser of two evils" situation. People don't want AI, but we know what to expect from it.

@luminous3558

5 ай бұрын

MtL was already pretty decent at translating JP to english, this is just better MTL and its supervised by someone who actually speaks japanese. Localizers were already using mtl and wouldve started using AI themselves fairly soon.

As a hobbyist who frequently tinkers with [redacted] LLMs, I can tell you, the technology is advancing quite well.

This is far from the end of the fight, it seems. We gotta keep up the pace, and not get complacent. Also, FINALLY, someone calls Scott out on that BS video he did on the subject.

I believe that Localizers form an alternative establishment that prides itself for being “anti-establishment”. Hence the abundance of anti-white sentiment (the “this is the 80s” incident, the “vitamin D” thing, etc.), cisphobia and heterophobia (the I Think I Turned My Childhood Friend Into a Girl thing), and misandry (that and also the “mansplaining” things).

Man, this shit is so frustrating for me. Like, full disclosure, I am a lefty. I go pretty hard left, so I'm precisely the kind of person they want paying attention to the political shit. But I still hate it, because if the work is being shared, it should be shared with the original intent as intact as possible. And yeah, there may be cases where a more modern slang term actually fits a situation or might convey something better. I didn't really mind the subs for Nagatoro using "sus" because it's not particularly intrusive, and it's just a shortened form of a word anyway. But admittedly that's one of the only examples that didn't bother me, because most of the time they pick a word with completely different connotations! Even if a work of art is "problematic" we shouldn't be censoring or altering it. If a localizing company doesn't feel comfortable with the content of the original work, then just don't. It's a disrespect. It kinda feels like the 4kids mentality but applied to adults. Because something may not align with our values or require understanding of the culture, they cut and alter and replace it, instead of giving us the opportunity to ask questions and learn the good and the bad of other cultures. When I was like 5 years old, I knew damn well that those were riceballs on Pokémon. It didn't matter why that choice was made, I could still tell it was bullshit. Not much has changed