The Disastrous History of the DCEU
Ойын-сауық
It has been 10 years since the start of the DCEU with Man of Steel. Where has DC been now? Good ? Bad? Yes, mostly bad. We unravel 10 years worth of disappointments with this franchise and go a bit in depth with the history of it. From Man of Steel to Ezra Miller we will try and cover every main point that lead to the current state of the DCU. Special thanks to Hector for helping me with research and scripting this video. Enjoy and subscribe fellas!
Timecode’s
0:00 - Intro
3:16 - 2011
4:48 - 2013
6:04 - 2014
7:28 -2016
11:05 - 2017
15:21 - 2018
17:24 - 2019
19:47 - 2020
22:08 - 2021
25:33 - 2022
30:15 - Ezra Miller
32:43 - Cancelled Films
33:45 - The Future of DCU
35:00 - Breaking News
36:59 - Outro
Пікірлер: 720
They should make a movie about DCEU. Maybe that will pass 1-billion-dollar worldwide.
@isacctavares1368
Жыл бұрын
I would love to see a docuseries about the DCEU, the behind-the-scenes, and what a failure it was. It would be fascinating.
@jasonrenicks7670
Жыл бұрын
They'd defo interfere with the writing of that lol
@joehunter7936
Жыл бұрын
Comment of the day! Bravo Sr! 👊🏽💯🌟
@STICKOMEDIA
Жыл бұрын
Fr
@STICKOMEDIA
Жыл бұрын
@@jasonrenicks7670 lmao
As a DC fan, this just breaks my heart. Hope they get back on track eventually, because there are so many awesome characters that could make for fun films...Nightwing, Plastic Man, Spectre, etc.
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
Nobody needs "fun" films. We need GOOD films. The childish leftist indoctrinating propaganda that Disney/Marvel produces is disgusting.
@knowledgedivine-allah4234
Жыл бұрын
Spectre would make a great tv ma HBO Maxx mini series
@MILDMONSTER1234
Жыл бұрын
@@darkseid6898 I’d agree until you brought up politics outta nowhere
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
James Gunn is a pedo and he should be in JAIL. #RestoreTheSnyderVerse
@magallanesagustin4952
Жыл бұрын
A Plastic Man movie starring Bill Hader would be dope.
It’s actually impressive how much of a disaster WB made this universe even with movies like Shazam and Wonder Woman but it’s not even funny to laugh at, with the potential of this universe with the great actors like Cavill, it’s just a tragedy
@nathancurtis7008
Жыл бұрын
It's embarrassing like the justice league is more ionic then the avengers yet gets a movie that disrespect s them
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
James Gunn is a pedo and he should be in JAIL. #RestoreTheSnyderVerse
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
Aint no way u said cavil is a great actor 🤣.hes mid
@Ina_Toma
9 ай бұрын
@@Dikbeegchristian bale as batman is top tier
Bruh it's so sad that both henry and ben likes superman and batman so much and understand their characters but didn't get faithful adaptations
@chunklightmedia5792
Жыл бұрын
I know it is extremely unfortunate :(
@suzygirl1843
Жыл бұрын
@@chunklightmedia5792 Can't say it was ended by the D-She-U because it was destroyed by the fandom menace. At least Marvel is more successful at garnering diverse audiences
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
Don't be stupid and ignorant. The Snyderverse is fantastic. The problem always was the WB shills who boycotted and sabotaged their own projects. #SellZSJLtoNetflix
@kitgo596
Жыл бұрын
@@darkseid6898 it was okay at best but no one can deny that the superman and batman we saw in Snyder movies weren't comic faithful
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
@@kitgo596 No, it was clearly NOT "okay at best"; that's pure ignorance. And if you think that Snyder movies were not faithul to the source material, then you clearly haven't read enough comic books. You need to educate yourself. #SellZSJLtoNetflix
I really do feel bad for Cavill. He really wanted to do an optimistic Superman and I feel he would’ve done a fantastic job. I hope they can at least bring him back for some kind of multiverse movie.
@leoorduna2199
Жыл бұрын
Honestly Zack Snyder should have just stuck with his original idea (as well as listening to some fan demands) to making a Superman film saga so we can see him transition from being an unsure, flawed, and inexperienced hero trying to learn from mistakes to becoming the embodiment of hope we so desperately need. No cameos, no cheap references, no multiverse, and certainly no Justice League because I want this to be about Superman and only Superman, his supporting cast and character development so this would we can put his character arc to rest; But instead we got a failed cinematic universe sorely need of a reboot.
@DeadlyAlienInvader
Жыл бұрын
Am I the only who’s GETTING SICK AND TIRED OF MULTIVERSES?!?! EVERYBODY wants to make multiverses, now-EVEN SPONGEBOB! Can we just please take a break from that now? Hollywood is lucky I’m not a dictator or else I’ll force them to cut that out-OR ELSE!
@leoorduna2199
Жыл бұрын
@@DeadlyAlienInvader Honestly you are not alone I too am getting tired of this multiverse crap. I feel like that they're doing this is because they got nothing interesting to do with so they're trying to like pump everyone up for needless crossovers just to make things interesting. It gets worse whenever there are different TV shows that have similar animations people are going to make posts saying that they're in the same universe just to sound smart.
@SuCKeRPunCH187
Жыл бұрын
@@leoorduna2199 i don't believe snyder had any plan to bring in a more hopeful superman. HIs plan was to make a superman go evil and kill wonder woman and aquaman and batman kill himself.
@nicholassgobero
Жыл бұрын
I Just want these Superheroes to be symbols of Hope and joy again, no more doom and gloom please
If only WB had the strength for a complete reboot...sadly, Gunn has only offered confusion.
@MyDeeroc
Жыл бұрын
In a few years u would forget all about this failed universe
@PerfectTroy1
Жыл бұрын
@@MyDeeroc, I hope we never forget.
@Scroteydada
Жыл бұрын
Meh the mcu started off with some bad continuity too which most people just forgot about
@Batwing20293
Жыл бұрын
@@PerfectTroy1 Why? This universe sucked my guy.
@PerfectTroy1
Жыл бұрын
@@Batwing20293 , I agree that the Snyderverse sucked. My point is that Gunn should have wiped the slate clean, but he didn’t.
Im still genuienly upset that ezra has gotten 0 consequences for his proven actions when johnny depp got dropped from literally everything for what has been proven to be false
@chunklightmedia5792
Жыл бұрын
I know, it’s crazy how studios try to make us forget about certain shit.
@Michael-mt6yb
Жыл бұрын
Come on this shouldn’t be mental gymnastics. He’s actively in a movie. If they let him go it will make for media mess. He’s for sure being dropped after the movie
@swagwolfgang
Жыл бұрын
@@Michael-mt6yb as if its not already a media mess
@Michael-mt6yb
Жыл бұрын
@@swagwolfgang oh I agree
@Dru2037
Жыл бұрын
Ezra doesn't have any future projects and will be fired after the Flash movie.
DCEU sucked from the beginning that's why Man of Steel was criticized by general audience same as BvS however ZSJL ended up as positive response by viewers because there is Josstice league to compare. Remember when BVS ended up like MOS WB involved because they losing continuity and they had no idea what is Zack is doing. Zack is not comic book fan. He made Superman like Harry Potter and Watchmen. Moreover won't kill people even if he is criminal but Ben's Batman kills people that really sucks. Secondly, Zack JL 2 was suppose to have Lois Lane and Bruce relationship. WHAT THE HELL??? we never read that in comics or we never seen that in cartoons. In bis third JL movie Bruce dies by fighting Darksied and Lois having kid and they naming him as Bruce Kent were he do not have powers like Superman. OVERALL ZACK SNYDER'S DCEU is full of confusion and mess and it is hard to communicate to general audience, there is no use of crying via social media to restore the snyderverse because it won't work due budget. If Black Adam ended up as Successful in Box office we would have Black Adam 2, Snyderverse, MOS 2 and so on nevertheless it ended up as flop even if there was Henry Cavill cameo therefore James Gunn came to board and rebooted the franchise for good, I FULLY agree with his plan and his vision he made GOTG trilogy great in addition he read comic books and bring them to life that's the brilliance of the director. Zack's making style may be unique still he lack comic book knowledge that's were Marvel won the game since 2008 first they gave everyone a solo then they brought everyone together as Avengers in 2012 which ended up as GOAT besides it earned 1.5 billion at the box office.
The problem was WB panicked when a few movies didn't do exactly what they expected, they then interfered on movies & rushed movies out, in their panic they changed the slate, cancelled some, if they would've stuck to the plan, let the writers n directors do their thing I think it would've been a different story, some highs some lows but would've built into something really good, by now it would've probably been done n now they could've done what their doing now
@joelhenry5489
Жыл бұрын
The problem was they tried to make quick cash off of their DC comics without thinking it through and hiring creatives suited to the job. Instead they hired Zack Snyder to helm an entire cinematic universe when he has exhibited little to no storytelling aptitude.
@chunklightmedia5792
Жыл бұрын
It’s unfortunate we won’t see Zach Snyder’s master plan with this franchise. There was a lot left in the air but we’ll see what the flash does and the rest of Gunn’s dc slate.
@suzygirl1843
Жыл бұрын
@@chunklightmedia5792 His masterplan wasn't making them money.
@caliginousmoira8565
Жыл бұрын
@@joelhenry5489 how do you tell a story..... correctly, other than out of order(wait a minute) how do you do this 'right'?
@chrisfitforever
Жыл бұрын
EXACTLY. Been saying this for so long. The fact that they thought they’d make a billion per movie right out the gate is baffling. Especially considering the general populations still thought Christian Bale was Batman. MoS was a great start. BvS damn near hit a billion and arguably would have if they released the extended cut. And JL would have been a hit (Zacks version). Not to mention we would have had Nightwing, JL 2 coming, Deathstroke etc. Oh well.
Fun fact: All the disastrous moments in DCEU were all done by Reverse Flash
A perfectly edited, 37 minute autopsy. Just summed up everything I've hated over the last 10 years. This franchise was gift wrapped for success, yet failure seemed to be the only option.
You forgot WB did meddle with BvS making it PG-13 to attract more audience and cutting 30 minutes from it just to get more showings.
@99GregPotter
Жыл бұрын
There is always some slight studio interference in one way or another, but BvS and MoS were mostly left up to the hands of Snyder to do as he pleased. Once the reviews for BvS came out though that’s when WB decided they wanted to take more creative control
@michaelkeudel8770
Жыл бұрын
@Hector B yeah, and that gave us Joss Whedon and that disaster, Snyder cut redeemed that film, but it could have made some minor cuts.
@caliginousmoira8565
Жыл бұрын
@@99GregPotter so what i've been hearing about a MoS 2 was a lie? wb exec's didn't want batman to be in the 2nd movie.... along with WW, Cyborg, Flash and Aquaman?
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
@@99GregPotter BvS was sabotaged by the WB shills. The film was censored and butchered. The WB shills forced Snyder to remove 30 minutes of footage for the theatrical release. And after that, they completely DESTROYED Justice League with the aid of the abuser Joss Whedon. That's why all the WB execs were FIRED and now the company is 50 BILLIONS in debt. BvS: Ultimate Edition is one of the best comic book movies ever made. Educate yourself. #SellZSJLtoNetflix #BoycottWBD
@andrewjmp3494
Жыл бұрын
@Caliginous Moira no, Snyder wanted to make MOS 2 but WB wanted to play catch up with Marvel so they made him shoehorn all the justice league members in BvS.
From an outsider’s perspective - it’s so weird that it’s supposedly all about money, but the people in charge of the choices seem to make the wrong choices each time??? I’m so confused haha, why can’t we just make movies that are good? Good movies make money, no matter what.
@ricniks4619
5 ай бұрын
Because they weren’t trying to make good movies they were just hoping that the name of the characters & the fact that they were bootleg MCU movies were enough to earn them money. But they forgot the reason Marvel was successful with the MCU is because they knew they had to make good movies to kick off their franchise to get people to keep coming back & every movie left enough ground work for another director to work off of. Like the Russo brothers making that hype Captain America Mjolnir moment in Endgame due to Joss Whedon leaving a door open for them in Age Of Ultron where it was shown that he could lift the hammer he just didn’t so he wouldn’t hurt Thors ego. Having Snyder who is very strict on his vision & wouldn’t compromise with the studio was a horrible idea from the start because it made it extremely difficult for other directors who wanted to make more light hearted stories because it would feel like tone whiplash to the audience due to how MOS & BvS kicked things off & established that this wasn’t going to be a world where we could get a mix of dark & fun stories. And some leading to plot holes like WW1984 where the events of that movie were for some reason not brought up in MOS where Superman’s reveal was treated as the first supernatural incident the world has seen or Batman not knowing about her till 2016 despite being the worlds greatest detective & researching a ton about the world.
I love how Ezra gets a whole section dedicated to him……. 😂
I'll never forget the theater experience cor BvS. Everyone was dead silent throughout and at the end one person started clapping and no one joined them. They slowly stopped when realizing this.
@BeccasaurousRex270
Жыл бұрын
BvS was the first time I fell asleep at a theater
@75aces97
Жыл бұрын
BvS was a fascinating disaster, in that killing Superman should be the sort of auspicious cinematic moment you can only do once. And yet I felt nothing and the whole theater had no apparent emotional response. No gasp, no sob, no “oh no!”, no applause. Nothing.
@academicdeaneducation6671
Жыл бұрын
BvS isn't just a great super hero film, it's a great film/story regardless of genre.
@silverstrike5904
11 ай бұрын
It was more enjoyable than the dark knight though
@slothboi7131
11 ай бұрын
That's how it was as well for josstice league
There is NO way they will keep Miller, they just don't want to draw too much attention to his legal issues before the movie comes out. They'll drop him like a sack of potatoes as soon as The Flash comes out. Probably replace him via post credit scene.
@all_out_tripp7220
Жыл бұрын
I didn’t watch flash, did that happen?
@d3rrick10493
Жыл бұрын
@@all_out_tripp7220 no, well, not really. The ending insinuates he is in another universe than the main one, so.. kinda?
@concept5631
10 ай бұрын
@@d3rrick10493 I will outright laugh at WB if they keep Ezra around for some goddamn reason.
I remember having apprehensions when Zack Snyder was hired to direct Man of Steel because I didn’t care for 300. But I wanted to believe. Then I had more reservations when the sequel was announced to be about Batman fighting Superman, because that shit is never made to make Superman look good. But I wanted so hard to believe. I wanted so hard to have a DC cinematic universe even justifying that awful Martha moment. I eventually admitted to myself that I did not like Snyder’s vision. I’m very excited to see what James Gunn will be doing
@brewmaster2912
Жыл бұрын
Me too
@avinashfernandez5425
Жыл бұрын
The fact is Snyder was going for an injustice storyline and bvs wasn't supposed to be 2nd movie. It was supposed to come after man of steel 2 and solo batman movie. That would've added lot of context to the bvs plot rather than just being a movie where justice league members are introduced. You have a problem with Snyder apparently or his movies aren't to ur taste and that's ok. But It isn't Zack Snyder fault the dceu flopped. Cos if it was then Zacks version of justice league wudve flopped too but it was a massive hit. James Gunn has made good movies but his suicide squad was nothing special. And guardians of the galaxy vol 2 wad enjoyable but gog 1 was mediocre at best. Time will tell if this DC stuff will work. Still a what if lingers on..
@paulieboy6644
Жыл бұрын
@@avinashfernandez5425 most people who watched Zack Snyder’s cut were already fans of Zack Snyder, so there’s a lot of confirmation bias. As someone whose favorite superhero is Superman, I’m so glad his Injustice plans failed.
@avinashfernandez5425
Жыл бұрын
@paulieboy6644 well not really since, it was a massive hit. Now if only Snyder fans enjoyed the movie, then I'd say 80 to 90 of dceu fans are Snyder fans then. So you can't really say it's confirmation bias. Now personally I don't understand the criticism people have on man of steel tbh. Like what is wrong? It's a movie where he learns to be what he is. Did that cause destruction, well absolutely since aliens are fighting. Or is it superman killing zod because it's not the first time done on film. Or is it the color tone, not enough light? Or sad realistic story? I mean superman fans should love the movie it makes a young noob superman look very very good. Who knows to each their own I guess.
@parabellum2092
Жыл бұрын
@@avinashfernandez5425 the “Massive success” of ZSJL was destroyed by Godzilla vs Kong in streaming numbers. Of course WB is going to claim it was a “massive success”. Quite literally the only people who cared about this movie at all were Snyder’s fans.
green lantern might be bad but the sinestro casting was perfect
@darth_aura
Жыл бұрын
Fr he was wasted potential
I remember being so excited for Man of Steel and thought it was gonna be part of the Nolen and Green Lantern universe. Disappointed to learn that was not the case
Solid video but in 2021 No Way Home , Dune, and Shang Chi all came out so the biggest thing was def not just the Snyder Cut.
@carealoo744
Жыл бұрын
Dune sucks
@awwcrapDUDE
Жыл бұрын
@@carealoo744 Oh no! Anyway.
@darthdragonborn1552
11 ай бұрын
Lil bro said Shang-Chi💀
@awwcrapDUDE
11 ай бұрын
and no way home and dune.@@darthdragonborn1552
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
Snyder cut never was biggest at all gunn's SS bodied it
Cavill was never fired, he never had a contract for a second film after the cameo was filmed
@jayguero2123
Жыл бұрын
“Fired” doesn’t necessarily mean contractually. Before the James Gunn shakeup, Dwayne Johnson was meant to be a creative pillar of sorts for the DCEU. In it, he wanted Cavill’s Superman, Levi’s Shazam and possibly both current versions of Batman running around. Remember, this was before Gunn became attached. What happened between Johnson and Gunn once the shakeup happened can only be left up to interpretation.
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
Don't be stupid and ignorant. Henry Cavill was 100% FIRED. WB is CANCER. They boycotted and sabotaged their own projects. That's why all of them were FIRED and now the company is 50 BILLIONS in debt. Cavill, Snyder and the fans were SCREWED by WB. #SellZSJLtoNetflix #BoycottWBD
@NobleRaider2747
Жыл бұрын
@@jayguero2123 That's putting it lightly, The Rock straight up tried to pull a coup on DC
@jayguero2123
Жыл бұрын
@@NobleRaider2747 Yeah in hindsight, it’s hilarious I gave DJ the benefit of the doubt given everything we know now 🤣. In his defense though, he saw an opportunity and took it. The DCEU never stood a chance with the general public outside of a niche group of people who love Zack Snyder. If James Gunn was never offered the position he has now, who knows. Maybe a DC franchised centered around Black Adam and Superman wasn’t that bad of an idea given all the failures of the DCEU.
@NobleRaider2747
Жыл бұрын
@Jay Guero indeed, he saw that the fans wanted Henry Cavill back, and decided to take that opportunity, effectively trying to use Henry's Superman as a pawn (or Trojan horse?) to get the fans' favor As we all know, this failed, badly
there is no one i trust more than James Gunn.
@maximusprime3459
11 ай бұрын
Good luck with that
@jayguero2123
10 ай бұрын
@@maximusprime3459Cope.
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
@@maximusprime3459cope
You had one job warner executives, all you had to do is let the directors make the movies the way they wanted, but you just kept interfering!
@caliginousmoira8565
Жыл бұрын
amen....
@projectpems8304
Жыл бұрын
While I’m all for more creative freedom in Hollywood, letting directors do whatever the hell they want instead of a plan is precisely why stuff like the DCEU and Star Wars sequels failed pretty hard (And this is coming from someone who liked The Last Jedi)
@hungvu-xc3uf
Жыл бұрын
They did, MoS and BvS didn't turn out the way they wanted
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
@@hungvu-xc3uf NO. Stop being stupid and ignorant. BvS was sabotaged by the WB shills. The film was censored and butchered. The WB shills forced Snyder to remove 30 minutes of footage for the theatrical release. And after that, they completely DESTROYED Justice League with the of the abuser Joss Whedon. That's why all th WB execs were FIRED and now the company is 50 BILLIONS in debt. Educate yourself. #SellZSJLtoNetflix #BoycottWBD
@hungvu-xc3uf
Жыл бұрын
@@darkseid6898 studio interference is a new concept to you? Directors are hired hands, they work for the studio. Studio interferes with EVERY MOVIE. It is the job of the directors to make a good film despite interference. Snyder didn’t pay shit for the movie, WB did. So they can’t have a saying in the product that they are paying for?
I'm not gonna lie, I did smile a bit when I heard John Williams's 'Superman' theme as Cavill entered in the 'Black Adam' post credit scene. Hopefully he gets a second chance in a multiverse movie (like 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' or another story involving the DC multiverse) like how Andrew Garfield got a second chance as Spiderman in 'Spider-Man: No Way Home'.
@user-vr9ek4kz2u
Жыл бұрын
Hope he plays Sentry, or Hyperion, or Gladiator in the MCU, lampshade included. "Wasn't your first choice, was it?" "Well, I tried _Superman_ first, but..." (knowing smile) "It didn't work out."
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
James Gunn is a pedo and he should be in JAIL. #RestoreTheSnyderVerse
Don't really see The Suicide Squad as a reboot. It doesn't contradict the first one and it's the Suicide Squad the roster would rotate. If anything it's more of a sequel that happens later.
Miller is too much of a PR nightmare for them to keep around. I wouldn’t be surprised if they aren’t around for the new Rebirth of the DCU.
I like Cavil as the look of Superman but if you think Snyder did a good job writing him, I’m not sure what to tell you
@kendallfleming5858
Жыл бұрын
I do, tell me he did a good job, because he did! Let’s be honest, we’ve had the tighty wighty Here I come to save the Day Up Up and Away version of Superman since the freaking 30’s! We needed something different but not too far off the path. We know the basics, Kypton destroyed, vulnerable to Kryptonite and 🪄, indestructible and all around “that guy!” Yet, many people related to this Supes because he had real world problems that people as humans understand! Seeing that 😡 and wanted to let it all hang out but having the discipline to adhere to morale, people related and felt that full stop! Being laughed at, mocked and feared as if you don’t belong, people felt that! People didn’t like he broke the spell of the same old stale Superman! I do admit he tried to cram too much into BVS but WB was pushing him to do it
@runthrufields
11 ай бұрын
@@kendallfleming5858 Agree with this. Im quite young (2005) and didnt have much surface level origin knowledge of DC characters throughout my life until recently. I started watching ZSJL when it released and I liked it- made me intrigued to see what I really missed out on throughout the years- so I revisited the previous movies like Man of Steel & BvS through clips. This whole time I just assumed the Man of Steel movie would just be a good guy untouchable superman for 2 hours but I saw the court scene and it had me hooked. I personally don't mind Zack's take on any of these characters and I believe they could stand on their own. Sure BvS looked like they had some issues but I believe if the DCEU slate took its time it would've been pretty respectable. All things considered, I'm curious as to what the new justice league could look like in the future of the DCU
@mottom2657
11 ай бұрын
Cavill is a great Supes cast. But Snyder made him a Kryptonian Tony Stark-esque "faulty and guilt-riden" character.
@mottom2657
11 ай бұрын
@@kendallfleming5858 Because Superman is inherently innocent, and he always saves the day with a boatload of hope for the people. Real-world problems? What are those? These apply to Spider-Man, not Superman. Go read comic books again. Superman isn't Marvel, Snyder made Supes a Marvel character.
@kendallfleming5858
11 ай бұрын
@@mottom2657 to me it made him more relatable and current for the time.
Mcu after 10 years: Hey, let’s start an infinity war! DCEU after 10 years: It’s over we quit!
That intro is absolute gold! 😆🤣
The announcement of the SnyderCut did bring a lot of new suscribers. In fact, the Snydercut could be consider as the greatest thing that happened to HBOMAX for all the buzz that generated before release. Snyder's plan wasn't Man of Steel 2 and JL 2 The SnyderCut wasn't received with mixed reviews. IMdb literally put it just below The Dark Knight. And even RT gave it a good score. Yes, BVS was different from what the MCU was doing at the time, it's a shame that until now people is realizing that BVS was actually a good movie. And yes, A LOT of people is realizing that I'm not just saying it. To bad also that most people still look for Rotten Tomatoes rather than having their own opinion on a movie.
@mattsell2361
Жыл бұрын
Agree with literally all of your takes especially about bvs. However it was clear WB due not market the Snyder cut well and wanted the film to not succeed
@boxtupos7718
Жыл бұрын
Excpet it didn't? There was a huge buzz before how barely 1/3rd of the viewers finished the movie in the 1st week; Not like the Irishman which was gauged by not being finished by 1/3rd of viewers in tge 1st day. TSS at a point became the most viewed DC Film; Mortal Kombat and Godzilla vs. Kong did even more numbers than TSS. Dune and even Space Jam was viewed more than ZSJL. ZSJL was prolly a test, to see how much number would actually be pulled from ZS's work; Because shortly after that, they canned the script for MOS 2 and gave Gunn Superman to write.
@MILDMONSTER1234
Жыл бұрын
IMDb only rated it highly cause of Snyder fans bumping up the scores. 90% of people circle jerking BvS are just poeple talking about how the fight scenes are good and that’s it
@ultrascarlet5275
11 ай бұрын
BvS is not good, and never will be.
@mottom2657
11 ай бұрын
Another day, another copium-induced Sex Snyder rant. How long will you continue? Snyder made Supes a Marvel character; Supes isn't dark.
This video was great, I appreciate you guys going over every single detail with each project and such. I was unfortunately one of the kids who grew up with these movies and was super bummed out not seeing a proper continuation after JLP1. Now becoming an adult, I now get to see a more proper DC cinematic universe!
Like the MCU I Witnessed the DCEU with a Few Ups and Many Unfortunate Downfalls and It’s All to 4 Things,WB letting DC Out of Control without Any Plans or Directions,Dwayne Johnson spending 15 Years on His Black Adam Project but Doesn’t Understand the Source Material,that the Character He Was Playing is a Shazam Villain that with his Fragile Ego didn’t want to Lose because of a Dumb Contract,and the One Thing that He and His Ex Wife did that’s Divided the Fan is that they Brought Henry Cavill Back as Superman,Not mainly for the Fans but to make Black Adam fight the Man of Steel instead of Shazam,Without understanding DC was in a Mess,Patty Jenkins is Another that wasn’t Loyal to the Wonder Woman Character than instead of being Faithful to the Lore She Picked New Paint Jobs of Characters that Tainted the Source Material,and Finally I was going to Pick Jared Leto and Margot Robbie but they aren’t the Problem on this Topic so the One that that Damage DC is Zach Snyder,Look I Love Man of Steel so much I still Rewatch it to this Day and he’ll I even Read the Novel and love His Action Cinematography that has this Anime Style,However his Vision in Movies is Questionable yeah He was Forced by WB to create a Universe instead of a Superman Trilogy,Yes I Understand why He Left on that Horrible Family Tragedy,and Yes I Respect and Believe He’s a Comic Book Fan at Heart however He’s doesn’t Know about Storytelling and Character Dialogues,especially when He’s the Reason why Ezra Miller was Hired on WB and DC to be the Flash without Checking His Background back in the Early 2010s he Did Things that were Signs to Red Flags that could have been Avoided,I Don’t Blame James Gunn,He’s True on His Word and He’s the Only Person I Trust on Adaptating Stories but do Major Changes that Doesn’t Work to make the Projects Work so in a Weird Way I’m Looking Forward to DC’s Future.
R.I.P DCEU..... Note to James Gunn, don't kill Superman in your second movie.. Or suffer the fate of your predecessor
Godzilla vs Kong destroyed the Snyder Cut's streaming numbers while having a theatrical release, so saying the latter was the only film people cared about at the time is quite disingenuous
@kendallfleming5858
Жыл бұрын
What you’ve stated is an unfair assessment. Godzilla v Kong is a 1h 53m movie while Snydercut was 4 hours. You can show 2 Godzilla streams for every Snydercut you play. Yes, you’ll get more streams because the average network isn’t going to pay to have a 4hr movie sit in their ☁️ for 90 days. The demand isn’t going to be as high for a 4 hr movie even if it’s good due to attention spans. Lord of the Rings was last to do it and that day died long ago. Snydercut in 2021 did have the highest sells in blue rays and 📀’s. But I do agree that it wasn’t the only film people cared about at the time.
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
Lol the suicide squad bodied snyder cut
@kendallfleming5858
10 ай бұрын
@@Dikbeeg Bot
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
@@kendallfleming5858 truth hurts eh
@kendallfleming5858
10 ай бұрын
@@Dikbeeg No it doesn’t, I just know a bot when I see one.
A Very-Much Justified (no pun intended) End to the Incredibly Strange and Insane Journey of the DCEU (Cue Barry Allen's tooth falling off at the end of the Flash movie) 🤣🤣🤣
One day we'll have a restrospective of retrospective videos.
@neophenom
Жыл бұрын
Which are probably the best thing that we have gotten as a result of the mess that has been the DCEU. I am partial to very angry and upset fan vids, who borderline in being delusional, but this one is a good one. A bit too hopeful at the end, for my taste, but it will do. 😅
I absolutely agree with you. It was doomed from the start. The fact that they (DC and WB) had no plan going in was a huge red flag. Seriously, they already had the succesful Bruce Timm cartoons as a concept and could have just used those for inspiration, especially as they were financially succesful and populaer with comic and non-comic readers. Then, they hired Zack Snyder (despite several flops) and David S. Goyer (known for his bad scripts) to helm Man of Steel and that movie set the entire tone for the DCEU and it was unsuccessful in that regard. They ruined Superman and decided to proceed with Snyder's plans and are surprised they failed?!
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
WB had no plan snyder took advandage of that situation to make stinkers
DCEU should be doing more with The DC Extended Universe.
Jason Mamoa may still be with DC and he may get the part Lobo which is a better role for him.
Great video please make more! Whats your take on the mcu? How about all the new independents with movie/tv deals?
@chunklightmedia5792
Жыл бұрын
We have a whole MCU phase 1 & 2 tier list :) plus a phase 4 podcast episode if you want to check them out
One of the only projects that I'm actually sad didn't come out was the deathstroke movie. 1 because he's a cool af character, and 2 because IT WAS GOING TO BE DIRECTED BY THE GUY WHO MADE THE RAID 1 AND 2 (2 of the best action/Kung fu movies ever made)
With the amount of dc movies that keeps bombing how the fuck does warner bros still have money? Lol
@75aces97
Жыл бұрын
Because some of these movies were awful, but still made enough money to keep the lights on. Even a film as lazy and terrible as Superman IV made back its budget. If a movie has Superman or Batman in it, *somebody* will pay to see it. Maybe not twice, but once, at least. Even so, Warner has a lot of media ventures, some of which did flop, which is how they racked up enough debt to get bought and sold by AT&T, and then by Discovery.
I do think The Flashpoint movie is going to make more money than Ant-Man 3 and The Marvels at the box office
@re1010
Жыл бұрын
Maybe. Keep in mind, DCEU has had 5 bombs in a row. Shazam 2 bombed Black Adam bombed The Suicide Squad bombed WW84 bombed Birds of Prey bombed. I think the mess of tge DCEU and the MCU's oversaturation (we're in phase 1 of this saga and we already trying to make Kang the phase 3 Thanos. Which isn't helped by Majors recent allegations) has really screwed up superheroes. Remember when people made fun of Speilberg for comparing these to cowboy movies, this was what he meant. Cowboy and swashbuckler movies were becoming too saturated, and that lead to alot of films bombing.
Great video, ChunkLight! Missing some things but still very good.
@chunklightmedia5792
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, thank you. We tried our best to get as much info as we could. I appreciate the comments that are giving insight on information I might have missed.
Batman vs Superman was HORRIFIC. Justice League was Worse. OG Suicide Squad was just a Complete Mess. DCEU just a DISASTER.
@dericjames2018
Жыл бұрын
Zack snyder's justice league was great
@brewmaster2912
Жыл бұрын
@@dericjames2018 not really if you actually pay attention. I could explain but you should probably watch Mauler’s video on why the Snyder Cut sucked.
@hasthehighground8560
Жыл бұрын
@@dericjames2018 it was better than Josstice League but still was dog shit.
@flavioalbatrozz2557
Жыл бұрын
@@dericjames2018 no, it was less terrible.
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
Mos was the worst superman movie
They could have done what Marvel did and just made a few individual films of the essential Justice League characters before making a Justice League film. Henry Cavil should have done Man of Steel 2, where Russell Crowe would return as Jor-El and guide him to help him to harness the powers he has, a standalone Batman film in the universe, a Wonder Woman film, a Flash film, a Aquaman film, a Green Lantern film and then finally a Justice League film, with the other characters having sequels of their own as long as the right people were on board to make them. There could be two films in a year in some instances, as we saw Marvel do that before the Avengers and so within 5 years there could have been a great set up for a Justice League film, rather than a big catch-up with Marvel and trying to put all the characters together in a film as fast as possible. It’s clear they wanted to beat Marvel at their own game, but rather than use what they did over the course of years of planning things out, they just did what they could and rush the films out and the result isn’t that great. Christopher Nolan made his Batman films one at a time and made sure he had a story to tell before making them and the result is a trilogy of films that people really love and enjoy, so taking the time to craft a multiple film franchise like the DCEU would have been a great thing for them to do rather than try and match Marvel with an expansive universe with DC characters. Instead there are some films people enjoy overall, some films that some people like and some people don’t and then there are films people just straight up dislike as a whole. It’s a mixed bag that instead could have been a great universe of characters that have been beloved for many decades, instead of being in the state that it’s in now. Great video man, this is an excellent breakdown of what all happened to the DCEU and why it didn’t get to flourish as it could have.
Very well made concise and detailed history of the dceu many failures
@chunklightmedia5792
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!!!!! :)
This is the most beautifully made dcu videos I have ever seen, and you very little subs, hope more people recognize your video editing talents It is a real shame that this era of dc is over and wasn't handled well, hope they learn from their mistakes, doubt it, but hopefully this era can be concluded as an elseworld story one day, that would be cool
@chunklightmedia5792
Жыл бұрын
Very much appreciated man, thanks for the love! Yeah hopefully these characters won’t be forgotten and maybe some day we can see a proper conclusion or even a crossover.
@lakshyaplayz007
Жыл бұрын
@@chunklightmedia5792hey bro what Japanese song did you use for intro? Pls tell
The first minute of the video hits really hard 💔
I don’t think a Static Shock movie was in production. I hope we get one soon. James Gunn, don’t fuck up.
@eamonndeane587
Жыл бұрын
That and we have Static as a part of the Justice League. Coleman Domingo would be a perfect fit as Robert Hawkins.
Man a Mamoa Lobo movie sounds great. Love that character
Just to correct you at 9:30, I'm not sure you've heard about the Ultimate Edition (very solid film that could've prevented so much imo) of Batman v Superman, but WB interfered by making them cut 30 minutes, which effectively "dumbed it down" which can arguably be to blame for poor critical reception of the theatrical.
@illyph9963
Жыл бұрын
Exactly i went on bigger rant about this at top of comments👍🤣
@criscrosxxx
11 ай бұрын
😂😂😂😂 its good cuz the theatrical version is bad . Similar to how zsjl is seen as a good movie but its in comparison to jl 2017
@Ale-dd3ek
11 ай бұрын
Very solid I still like to know how the fuck Luthor knows Barman identity And I still despise Knightmare
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
Lmao improve ur taste it still dogfood
Brooooo imagine if zach got to do the batman gets raped in jail thing the bat fandom would be fighting for their lives
Birds of Prey wasn't critically panned.
@neophenom
11 ай бұрын
Right? It has probably the more balanced scored between audiences and critics, with near 80%. I think someone skipped on researching a few things. 😅
@NUCLEARDASH
11 ай бұрын
I was thinking the same
The first thirty seconds of this video had me hooked.
I dont care about DCU or capeshit in general, but I do like Henry Cavill and his Superman, so if he is gone then im gone. I hope his Warhammer project goes well, because between Superman and Geralt his passion characters just cant get a break.
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
Worst superman is gone .good riddance
To be honest they kind of deserved it.
That intro is comedy gold lol
I left when the dark knight trilogy was over. Everything went to shit after !
They gave the keys to the kingdom to the wrong guy. Zack Snyder was always the wrong choice for that world and those characters. It's dirt simple. The fact that we still have people "JuSt gIvE HiM aNoThEr $200000000 aNd AnOtHeR fOuR YeArS tO Do hIs ThInG🤤" is the real mind-boggler.
@flyingmonke
11 ай бұрын
Lmao all Snyder fans are incels
@concept5631
10 ай бұрын
Given how desperate WB is right now I wouldn't be surprised if they tried it anyway.
When are they coming out with the Black Vulcan feature film? Or Marvin and Wendy?
for me its sad and very frustrated that DC fans or synder fans/cavill fans are blaming James gunn for the fall of synderverse cuz of hamada's and old executives. th old regime is the one who fucked up synder vision! not Gunn nor seffran or David saslav, none of those three deserve to get hate cuz those three had the only balls or the one' s who really cared to change DC movies and put it on the right track. yes! its unfortunate and very terrible on removing synderverse cuz even me i loved synder did on those characters but gunn isnt the person to blame here. the old regime is the one who fcked up synder and stab him the back multiple times and even reshoots his movies without his consent. thats why im glad that now we have a leaders of dc studio that actually care to make a comicbook movies and that the story connects on DC comics. finally we have a dc studio leaders that actually doing their job to make an universe to us DC fans. Synder did his best and for me he has the best JL movie adaptation but Gunn doesnt deserve to get hated on cuz he wasnt the one that destroyed the synderverse.
@luisfabianperez9563
Жыл бұрын
True. Gunn and Safran literally found the body in decomposition that was the DCEU, so they didn't have any other choice that wasn't a reboot of the universe.
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
Dc fans are with gunn
WB execs were fed up of Snyder, because his movies weren't "profitable enough". Too bad for them though, the only movies that made any money were actually the ones where he (coincidentially) was either the writter, the producer or the director: * Man of Steel (direcor) - $ 688 MIL; * Batman v Superman (director) - $ 873.6 MIL; * Suicide Squad 2016 (producer) - $ 746.8 MIL; * Wonder Woman (writter) - $ 822.8 MIL; * Aquaman (producer) - $ 1.149 BIL; Not to mention, his version of Justice League (the one that was supposed to be "unwatchable") was way better received and broke many records throughout the world. The executives at WB are the only ones to blame for this mess. The guy may not be a genius (as usually most people aren't), but they never figured why their expectations weren't fulfilled and threw him under the bus. Jokes on them, HA HA.
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
BvS was sabotaged by the WB shills. The film was censored and butchered. The WB shills forced Snyder to remove 30 minutes of footage for the theatrical release. And after that, they completely DESTROYED Justice League with the aid of the abuser Joss Whedon. That's why all the WB execs were FIRED and now the company is 50 BILLIONS in debt. BvS: Ultimate Edition and ZSKL are some of the best comic book movies ever made. #SellZSJLtoNetflix #BoycottWBD
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
Jokes on u .every snyder movie flopped 🤣.do ur research also aquamn producer is peter safran not snyder
Thanks for the video. I agree, The Suicide Squad, was by far the best and my favorite DCEU movie. Seeing Pete Davidson getting his face blown off didn't hurt either.
@chunklightmedia5792
Жыл бұрын
Lmao definitely a highlight of the movie
@Cbriggs502
Жыл бұрын
🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮
@kendallfleming5858
Жыл бұрын
SS was your favorite DCEU film, say that but it being the best DCEU film, 🛑 it!
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
@@Cbriggs502u love hack snyder garbo
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
@@kendallfleming5858it is kiddo
Birds of Prey was not critically panned. What are you on about?
@chunklightmedia5792
Жыл бұрын
It was critically panned by us :3
@righteousrawb7225
Жыл бұрын
@@chunklightmedia5792 Speaking of critical, did you know that Birds of Prey won the critics choice award and that's why Christina Hodson was tapped to write The Flash movie?
@kenny8712
Жыл бұрын
tbh it's kinda trash on all levels and is only praised by rotten tomatoes lol
Warner Bros back in 2008: “we just want to make batman and superman movies” Should’ve kept your word Warner Bros. And another thing I’m surprised Justice League didn’t kill the franchise.
I’d say marvel movies making 900,800,700 million is better than 300 million 😂
@caliginousmoira8565
Жыл бұрын
do you like jake paul? i can make billions and be the worst thing in existence.....
@thanoswasright5333
Жыл бұрын
@@caliginousmoira8565 I stopped liking Jake after team 10 ended
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
@@thanoswasright5333 That just proves how dumb and ignorant you are.
@thanoswasright5333
Жыл бұрын
@@darkseid6898 so a movie making profit is ignorant 😂🤡
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
@@thanoswasright5333 All Snyder movies made good profit and you know it. Stop lying. Nobody buys your crap. #SellZSJLtoNetflix
While i'm excited for the new DC Universe, there's no denying that the new universe is bascially trying to be the next Star Wars and Doctor Who since they told stories in all forms of media in the same continuity.
there were actually a few more canceled dc films that weren’t mentioned. Justice League Dark, Booster Gold and Blue Beetle (now blue beetle), Constantine, Zatanna, Green Lantern Corps on HBO, Blackhawks, and probably a few more IM forgetting lol.
I found this video more interesting than any DCEU movie I have ever watched.
@chunklightmedia5792
Жыл бұрын
Lol maybe I should direct a DCEU film 😳
They way these movies cam out seemed rushed as fuck It was like if marvel started with iron man then immediately jumped to captain America civil war then to gardians of the galaxy then to black widow then to avengers
@NUCLEARDASH
11 ай бұрын
You are right in the first sentence, but the comparison is the most dumbass shit someone could have ever read.
Jesus Christ what made you think a two minute intro was necessary?
@chunklightmedia5792
Жыл бұрын
The first minute and 30 were a perfect introduction to the madness and clusterfuck that was the dceu. I think I was able to embody that in my intro. The rest of the 30 sec was my long channel intro lol. But I am proud of the first minute and a half.
@christaylor7916
Жыл бұрын
@@chunklightmedia5792 I loved that first minute and a half and many others did too for sure 😍 👏
5:05 “…Man of Steel was released to mixed, but ‘mainly positive,’ reviews.” ME: actually most people didn’t like Man of Steel when it came out. I was there. I remember. People in the theater were really displeased with the overall tone and lack of fun.
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
Worst superman movie
I loved where the Lantern Corps was going next! Sinestro can still be the beginning of the Injustice League and continue the DCEU.
The DCEU was dead on arrival when killing Superman in the second movie was pitched and _nobody involved_ said that was a stupid idea.
Marvel fans are laughing hard at DC 🤣
@tvalokibatman6563
Жыл бұрын
Dc fans are laughing at marvel for having terrible shows like she hulk, Ms marvel and terrible CGI lately mcu films
By people wanting DC to fail they inadvertently caused the downfall of marvel. If marvel had competition they'd step up their game. Marvel is lazy now. Since they don't have competition they don't have that fire under their ass to give them the drive.
@lsebastian9086
11 ай бұрын
Expecting to fail and wanting to failare two different things. I did not want DC to fail, i wanted them tod o good but over and over they kept making decitions that didnot help, and now neither company is doing so great right now
Is anyone excited for the new DCU?
@Sathya_1996
Жыл бұрын
Yes
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
Me
@AlbertoFolres
10 ай бұрын
@@Dikbeeg let's hope Gunn doesn't llet you down then, but I highly doubt it =/
This is brilliant.
You forgot to mention how Warner bros took out 30min of important footage in Batman v Superman that caused the bad reviews for the movies
Saying the Snyder Cut was the biggest thing to come out in 2021 really paints this whole video in a different light lol
@neophenom
11 ай бұрын
Probably meant to say the biggest thing, for the DCEU. Either that or he missed a few banger which included a certain friendly neighborhood web swinger. 🤫
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
@@neophenomexcept it wasnt biggest in dceu either .TSS bodied it🤣
Watching this in march 2023 and still updating...sighs
DCEU is just a mess.
The true DCEU died in 2017 when they WB made the mistake of stepping away from the Zack Snyder plan and did the Joss Whedon Justice League and sequels to that. It's kinda like Superman and Lois thing where it's kinda in the arrowverse but isn't at the same time. 2017-2023 isn't canon to the DCEU.
@StopCallingMeShirley1180
Жыл бұрын
They stepped away from Snyder’s plan because of the underwhelming box office as well as the poor critical reception.
@StopCallingMeShirley1180
Жыл бұрын
And it’s all canon to the DCEU except for the Snyder Cut. That’s why the DCEU is being rebooted. It was all a mess.
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
Snyder flopped 🤣
With the condition dc is in nobody wins. The people who liked Zack Snyders Versions of these characters? Gone. The People who liked the solo less interconnected films? Gone? Batman fans? Better to stick with Math Reeves. Flash Fans? Don’t even get me started
@Dikbeeg
10 ай бұрын
Ppl who liked snyder was minority snyder cut flopped
I honestly don't know that James Gunn will fulfill the expectations being sought after, but time will tell.
@concept5631
10 ай бұрын
It surely can't be worse then what came before. I've heard that The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker were good. Let's see where it goes.
@joscar062
9 ай бұрын
@@concept5631 The Suicide Squad is much superior than the 2016 version, they finally got Harley character right Peacemaker was lit also
10/10 great video
I got to see the Batman Vs Superman movie for free. At the end of the movie, I wanted a refund.😖
@darkseid6898
Жыл бұрын
BvS was sabotaged by the WB shills. The film was censored and butchered. The WB shills forced Snyder to remove 30 minutes of footage for the theatrical release. And after that, they completely DESTROYED Justice League with the aid of the abuser Joss Whedon. That's why all the WB execs were FIRED and now the company is 50 BILLIONS in debt. BvS: Ultimate Edition is one of the best comic book movies ever made. #SellZSJLtoNetflix #BoycottWBD
@hasthehighground8560
Жыл бұрын
@@darkseid6898 thanks Darkseid for your informative and concise insight into the politics of Warner Brothers.
Waiting for DCU.
@thechosenone9242
Жыл бұрын
The dceu needed a restart hence the dcu. Why are people so mad about them rebooting😂
@Sathya_1996
Жыл бұрын
@@thechosenone9242 Yeah. It definitely needed a reboot. DCEU was an incoherent mess of universe and the general audience has lost interest in it. The majority of the dc fanbase is ready for something new. The ones that are upset and making a fuss about it are the toxic part of the snyder fanbase who wants him to return and continue his plans. After the flash, they've realized that it's not going to happen. Now they're trying to spread hate against the new universe.
@volkovedits
11 ай бұрын
@@thegoodstuff3148 Doesn't matter if the momentum is lost that's why there's a reboot. Remember how much Marvel sucked until Iron Man came out. Ghost Rider, Hulk, Spider Man 3, Daredevil, Elektra, Punisher etc
As a DC fan it breaks my heart that the DCEU had many downs and very few ups. The only billon dollar 💵 hit they had was Aquaman and they had many canceled projects including Zack Snyder’s Justice League Part II and III I feel bad for The Flash and Shazam! Fury Of The Gods because they bombed at the box office. Seeing The Flash makes me miss the DCEU was continuing with a possible crisis on infinite earths film
Black Adam....did...Okay?.........................393 millions vs a budget of 260 is NOT OKAY that's a flop.
Oh boy! Long Cinema history ? My fav! Why didn’t this get suggested earlier ? :(
30:14 made me laugh my ass off
I have to send this to every Facebook group post saying that Snyder would have made the flash work
The narrator’s sounds like he’s reading his book report to the entire class. 😂
@maximusprime3459
11 ай бұрын
And he's bored as hell
no wonder they are starting a new dc universe
Hey what's that intro song in Japanese? Sounds good
The perfect combination of Znyder and WB is what ruiked DC and the DCEU
@filmgoblin5016
9 ай бұрын
And Nolan
@joscar062
9 ай бұрын
@@filmgoblin5016the hell does Nolan have to do with this? Before snyder stepped in Nolan made DC a success with 2 movies making a billion dollars
@filmgoblin5016
9 ай бұрын
@@joscar062 what do you think? He wrote and produced MoS and was a producer on bvs and JL. So yes if we are to blame Snyder we also have to Blame Nolan as well. Just because he made two successful Batman films doesn’t mean he can’t be blamed for the fuck ups as well.
@filmgoblin5016
9 ай бұрын
@@joscar062 also those movies were success cus of Heath Ledgers passing and nothing else.
The dceu started 10 years ago today
Was Green Lantern before or after Deadpool? I wonder why they had the same actor play two different superheros... Has that happened with any other actor?