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@michalsoukup1021

Жыл бұрын

Just a note of caution, some streaming services will restrict you to the content available at your billing address no matter where you log from.

@juliemanarin4127

Жыл бұрын

Please do a video on The Lancastria! My grandpa was in the British military and died on that ship! He is buried in Pornic Cemetery in France as his body washed up on the shore.

@Iluvthomassomuch

9 ай бұрын

I am alive

Poor Bruce, everyone is so mean to him. I always knew the way they portrayed him wasn’t fair, but when I found out he fought for the survivors to receive compensation I really started feeling bad for him. He was just a normal guy stuck in a no-win situation

@benjalucian1515

Жыл бұрын

He was chairman and managing director of the line. Why wasn't compensation automatically given to them? Why did he have to "fight" to get them compensation? And if you read up on it, many of the poor were given compensation based on their lost goods. If they couldn't claim high dollar losses, they got next to nothing. No one got compensation for pain and emotional damage. So yeah, look at the compensation he worked to get them. It was very very little.

@juliadagnall5816

Жыл бұрын

@@benjalucian1515 Even as chairman and managing director he would have been beholden to the shareholders when it came to financial decisions. The company’s money wasn’t his to spend however he liked, especially after the purchase of the White Star Line by J. P. Morgan’s IMM. Modern day wrongful death suits can drag out for years and even if the plaintiff receives a settlement the lawyer is probably going to get half. In 1912 they could have gotten away with paying nothing and no one would have batted an eye. I’m not saying that Bruce Ismay was a saint, but he tried

@benjalucian1515

Жыл бұрын

@@juliadagnall5816 He had no choice but to try He was already vilified as the coward that he was, he would be considered even worse if he didn't try to redeem himself.

@juliadagnall5816

Жыл бұрын

@@benjalucian1515 why do you think he was a coward? He wasn’t a member of the crew so he wasn’t abandoning a post. He urged other people to get into the boats. The lifeboat he left in was the second to last one to be launched and there was no one else nearby to fill that empty seat. To my way of thinking there is no particular courage or nobility in dying pointlessly.

@RomulanCommander

Жыл бұрын

@@benjalucian1515 The only thing Ismay would have achieved by not getting into a lifeboat would be to add one more person to Titanic's death toll. Would you consider Lightoller specifically preventing men from getting into lifeboats when there was space for them courageous?

My great grandfather Albert Horswill worked for White Star Line aboard the RMS Oceanic and the RMS Titanic, he survived the wreck in cutter lifeboat one thanks to Officer Murdoch, it was the lifeboat with the Duff Gordons.

@mattc2094

Жыл бұрын

Wow thanks for sharing! Were stories of the titanic passed down in your family, or was it a sensitive topic that wasn’t to be spoken of?

@donnix1192

Жыл бұрын

@@mattc2094 Growing up outside of Chicago I remember we had a painting of the RMS Titanic that was made for my great grandfather by a coworker of his at a factory he worked at after moving here. That is how I initially learned about the ship when I inquired about the painting, I was around 7 years old in 1989. It wasn’t talked about all that much, I knew he worked for White Star Line on Oceanic and Titanic and survived the latter. My dad said that my great grandfather was a kind man but never talked about the sinking. Once the Cameron movie came out and it became a popular phenomenon is when I really started getting into the particulars of my great grandfather and his experience at sea in general and on Titanic in particular. Over 100 years later people are still fascinated with Titanic, many ships have tragically sank but for whatever reason they do not get remembered like Titanic.

@judysoltow4474

10 ай бұрын

Good old boy network hard at work

@donnix1192

8 ай бұрын

@@khayebenedictbayno940 You are right, he testified to hearing it break apart at the British Inquiry into the disaster.

It's great to see more factual points about Bruce Ismay.

@kostakole9876

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, he gets way gets way too much hate, and the worst part is 90% of the hate is based on miths.

@justinlynch3

Жыл бұрын

@@kostakole9876 Yeah doesn't help that Titanic 1997 was a major hit, and James Cameron choose to depict Ismay as the bad guy. As if the papers at the time wasn't enough, the movie only made it worse. While JC did stunningly showcasing the actual sinking and breakup of the ship, how he portrayed the characters in general is the weakest part of the whole thing. If another movie ever comes out it needs to do better with the character work. People like Ismay don't deserve all hate they get attached to them by the media.

@timd4524

Жыл бұрын

The amazing thing is Hearst was no angel.

@phildicks4721

Жыл бұрын

Sadly every film needs a villian, and because of the way the Titanic Hearings were sensationalized and reported in the news, he made an easy villian, even if not fair or true.

@mauricedavis2160

Жыл бұрын

I really appreciated that also!!!🙏👌🦉

As an individual whose lifelong fascination with the Titanic has been nothing short of an obsession since early childhood, I must humbly admit to my own regrettable oversight in failing to recognize the strikingly dapper and debonair appeal of J. Bruce Ismay. Despite having been acquainted with his image on countless occasions prior, it was not until the photograph captured at the precise moment of 6:01 that I was truly captivated by his irresistibly charming and alluring appearance. Your video about the great White Star line was both informative and in-depth. I appreciate the effort you put into it, and I always anticipate new content from you. Congratulations on your accomplishments!

@Madhouse_Media

Жыл бұрын

Not many people could pull off a mustache like that without looking like a creepy grade school gym teacher.

@housemana

Жыл бұрын

@@Madhouse_Media when did you go to school? the great depression??? literally never seen any gym teacher, creepy or otherwise, rock that kind of 'stache bro lol

@donnix1192

Жыл бұрын

My great grandfather Albert Horswill was a Titanic survivor, he was a crewman on the Oceanic and then Titanic for its ill fated maiden voyage. Thanks to Officer Murdoch, he survived in cutter lifeboat one, the infamous “money boat.”

@ironhell813

Жыл бұрын

​@@housemana the 70s and 80s had tons.

@BigOldBoats

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for the kind words!

The Big Four deserve the Big Old Boats treatment at some point. They were massive and innovative ships for the time, with Celtic, Cedric and Baltic each entering service as the largest ships in the world. Celtic was the first ship in history to exceed 20,000 gross tons, and the first to surpass the 18,915 GRT SS Great Eastern. At 20,904 GRT (13,449 NRT), she was the largest ship in the world from July 1901 until February 1903. She also survived two separate enemy attacks during the First World War, striking a mine in February 1917 and being torpedoed twice in March 1918. Cedric, at 21,073 GRT (13,520 NRT), was the largest ship in the world from February 1903 until June 1904, and was one of the first ships, if not the first, to carry the superior Wellin lifeboat davits compared to the traditional bent arm type davits. Baltic, at 23,876 GRT (15,295 NRT), was the largest ship in the world from June 1904 until May 1906, and was initially captained by Edward John Smith (of Titanic fame). She rescued survivors from sinking ships at least twice in her career, most famously from the sinking of the Republic in 1909. She also made the most crossings (625), carried the most passengers (460,962), and had the highest average number of passengers per crossing (738 on average), of the four. Adriatic was the largest, the fastest and the most luxurious of the Big Four, with the first Turkish baths and the first swimming pool on a ship. She also was initially captained by E.J. Smith, and spent the first four years of her life on the Southampton to New York route, being the first White Star ship to service this route (along with Oceanic, Majestic and Teutonic), from June 1907 until July 1911, then again from September 1919 until December 1921 (together with Olympic and a few Red Star Line ships). However, unlike her older sisters, she never held the title of the largest ship in the world. At 24,541 GRT (15,638 NRT), she fell just short of Hamburg America Line’s 24,581 GRT Kaiserin Auguste Victoria.

@HassassinCat

Жыл бұрын

I second this

@ericfasold805

Жыл бұрын

Didn't some one else already make a video on those ships?

@CJODell12

Жыл бұрын

@@ericfasold805 Yes, but the Big Four are such underrated ships

@CJODell12

Жыл бұрын

@@ericfasold805 I mean for one thing, Adriatic was the immediate predecessor to the Olympic class in terms of luxury, with many of the same amenities (Turkish baths, swimming pool, gymnasium, electric elevator, reading & writing room, small tables instead of long benches in the first class dining saloon)

@CJCody2006

9 ай бұрын

Well said! My favorite aspect of the Big Four was their Third Class accommodations. Prior to 1901 private cabins for Third Class were only provided for married couples and families with children aboard White Star ships and most other British ships, while most liners from the continent were still using open berths. Each of the Big Four had Third Class accommodations larger than any other British ships at the time Celtic entered service. In each ship there were two sections of the old fashioned dormitory style cabins as seen aboard Teutonic, Majestic, Cymric and Oceanic, but they only housed 600 passengers and were only used when Third Class was fully booked. The remainder were housed in two, four and six berth cabins. They each had four dining rooms (Adriatic had just 3) which were used as smoking and general rooms when meals weren't being served, ample washing and toilet facilities, and both open and enclosed deck space running the full length of the ship.

Hurst definitely had a major chip on his shoulders. Thank you for speaking up for Ismay, who really got the short end of the stick. Besides, most of us historians know that more lifeboats would not have helped as there would not have been time to launch them. Also, we know they were not traveling at full speed as boiler room 1 wasn’t lit until after they hit the iceberg. Cunard ships still fly the White Star Line flag every April 15th.

@ayindestevens6152

Жыл бұрын

Hearst was EXTREMELY petty. He famously bought Puck Magazine just to shut it down because they poked fun of him.

@housemana

Жыл бұрын

@@ayindestevens6152 that isn't... extremely petty, if you consider the type of weight of wealth Hearst had access to. pretty much par for the course. but go ahead pile on the adverbs, it helps sell the romance of drama ;)

@DerpyPossum

Жыл бұрын

Let's just say there's a reason the dude looks like a vampire in the photograph at 10:13...

@bellairefondren7389

Жыл бұрын

You mean more lifeboats couldn’t have been loaded due to crew inexperience? The Titanic sank in 2 hours, unlike the Lusitania. Also I think we should be cognizant that the titanic was going quite fast through what had been reported to be a big ice flow. Even the California had stopped for the night. The issue isn’t Ismay ordering record speeds as you say, it’s industry wide practicez

@roadweary5252

Жыл бұрын

@@bellairefondren7389 lifeboats weren’t ordered to be filled and launched until around 1am. That means they launched 18 lifeboats in an hour and 20 minutes (the last 2 were floated off as the bridge was underwater). There was literally not enough time to launch anymore. But yes, to your point, the crew was inexperienced as well…..

Not sure how true this is but according to Wikipedia Olympic's popularity was due in part to her sister's fame: 'many passengers sailed on Olympic as a way of vicariously experiencing the voyage of her sister ship'. Also Olympic and Britannic were made so much safer after the loss of Titanic that it actually strangely makes more sense to go with the shipping line that just had a terrible disaster!

@DelbelOfTheVoid

Жыл бұрын

It makes sense to me!

@joeruiz4010

10 ай бұрын

So sad that Olympic was scrapped in 1934. The ship was quite beloved after Titanic sank, and especially after Britannic became a casualty of WW1.

@jamesholton2630

7 ай бұрын

Currently the titanic and brittanic are the last two remaining examples of the Olympic class vessels

@foxymetroid

Ай бұрын

​@@jamesholton2630And both were lost due to unfortunate timing. The Titanic struck the iceberg when there were no waves or moonlight to give away its position. The Britannic struck a mine when her watertight doors were temporarily open during a crew shift change and when nurses violated the captain's orders by opening portholes to air out some rooms. The blast warped the bulkheads enough to prevent the watertight doors from closing and the open portholes allowed water to rush in even faster.

Not necessarily a typical subject for an ocean liner history channel, but I'm glad you made this one. Ismay is an interesting figure who's been flattened to a fall guy thanks to pop culture and William Randolph Hearst. It's nice to see someone give him and the White Star Line a more nuanced examination. And I learned plenty of new things about both!

I think one of the most interesting facts I learned about Bruce, was that he was 6’4. Even back in his times, that was exceptionally tall for the day.

I always knew the Great Depression had put an End to this very famous but somewhat infamous shipping company

@HyperVegitoDBZ

Жыл бұрын

More like it merely pushed it to the grave, it was half dead since 191, cash wise.

@LathropLdST

Жыл бұрын

​​@@HyperVegitoDBZ 191 AD or BC?

@HyperVegitoDBZ

Жыл бұрын

@@LathropLdST Wouldn't it be AT, After Titanic or Before?

Thank you for the detailed story of Bruce Ismay, he was painted as the bad guy and that's it, and clearly there was so much more to him. I love your content, amazing work!

Interesting topic, one that I’be never seen a video on. If you ask me, the business model White Star adopted in the 20s would be the main cause of the downfall. Rebuilding old liners, rather than scrapping them and making newer ones that would last longer. Majority of ships they did build in the 20s were for the Canadian route, rather than the main Southampton to New York. This random switch caused their main liners to seem older. That ultimately, is what I believe led to the fall of White Star.

@ailleananaithnid2566

Жыл бұрын

Don’t forget economic backdrop during this time. First there was the Great Depression. Many Americans believed the impact of the Depression was limited to America, which couldn’t be further from the truth. People all over the world were affected. Then came WWI & WWII when some of these great ships were drafted into service as troop transports. The owners weren’t getting wealthy with those gigs. People who’d sought the services of Cunard & White Star in the past were unable to afford passage. (A significant slice of their business was in ferrying immigrants from Europe to the New World.) In the 1920’s, the US began seriously restricting immigration for the first time. Those restrictions remained in place until the 1960’s. The loss of the immigrant trade had a big impact on the shipping companies. I just wanted to mention that there were economic factors beyond the control of White Star lead to their demise. Unfortunately, people tend to avoid to looking beyond the obvious (company practices) rather than pulling back to get an idea of what was going on globally. It is strange how many people forget the Depression & the both World Wars.

My grandmother immigrated to the USA on the Olympic in 1912. I always enjoy hearing more about that ship and White Star Line. Thank you!

@williamsteadman564

Жыл бұрын

You mean titanic watch titanic the shocking truth

@loganvantrease3535

11 ай бұрын

@@williamsteadman564 that theory isn’t true.

@cone17_

10 ай бұрын

Bro belives anything he sees

@SMCwasTaken

9 ай бұрын

​@@cone17_stop speaking in Gen Z

"JP Morgan, a name you may recognize from the ATM down the street that smells like urine." 😂😂 savage😂😂 The cheeky humor in this video is on point. 😂

I'm a soldier of 3 wars and countless operations. I worked the Alaskan fishing fleet as a young man too. There is no honor going down with the ship. It is a hunk of metal. The sea does not care if you live or die. Only fools let themselves die because of someone elses sense of honor. If armchair Captains feel so strongly about it they can go fling themselves into the sea on the survivors behalf.

@nicolasclermont893

10 ай бұрын

Well said.

@karenc4544

27 күн бұрын

Hear hear!

I always feel bad for Ismay. He was different from other historical big company owners. About the "fall of White Start Line" I don't think it was all their fault at all. The world was changing quickly, and companies come and go with time. I think it lived a long and successful business life, and left with dignity. Much better in my opinion than becoming a shell of its former self, trying everything to stay alive or having it name dragged by money hungry people (I'm looking at you Commodore). Maybe its just me but I prefer a well finished history. But also its just me anthropomorphizing a company again.

@raven4k998

Жыл бұрын

he has big eyes

@Daniel_Huffman

9 ай бұрын

I get your point, but I think that the RMMV _Oceanic_ would have been a better send off for the company. I love the third _Britannic,_ but the company deserved a less ignominious end. I don't think that the _Oceanic_ could have saved the company. At best, she'd have delayed the merger by a few months. But had she been completed, she would surely have been her owners' swan song. Imagine the White Star Line coming back for one final hurrah: A diesel-powered Blue Riband winner, and the first ship to surpass a thousand feet, and having _that_ be the note they go out on.

@zyancuerdo1615

27 күн бұрын

​@@Daniel_Huffman I understand where your coming from but in the end kylsant and especially the depression destroy any hopes of making it a reality but atleast brittanic and Georgic still did what oceanic could have done luxurious and popular but still economical and profitable just as white star always wanted of its ship since the 1890s

I think the white star line would have been doomed either way. Even with good leadership, the loss of business to air travel (maybe they could have gotten into that though), ww2, the slowing of Europe emmigration following the rebuilding of Europe, and other factors would have been hell that Bruce ismay wouldn't have been around for. A lot of shipping lines went under (pun intended), and not many are around today that were around then. Cunard is around, but it's a shell of its former self. They would have had to diversify more into commerce shipping and passenger air travel to stay relevant. History did Bruce dirty. His reputation 111 years later is a testament to what shady journalism can do, and I hope that someday his reputation will finally be cleared and that the Hurst name will be known for what it is, a bunch of dramatic, selfish, manipulative, slimy, degenerates who got lucky at crying foul.

@mattc2094

Жыл бұрын

Good point… all liners were facing insurmountable competition from airlines. I do wonder if white star could have continued, sort of like Cunard, as a niche shipping line, catering more for history buffs… in reality it’s probably unlikely. I’m surprised Cunard is still around to be honest, but I’m definitely glad they are

@andrewrife6253

Жыл бұрын

@@mattc2094 unfortunately only American banks and car companies get bailouts big enough to reward gross incompetence like that

@SudrianTales

Жыл бұрын

The MV Britannic and others like her could've been the start of a cruise industry especially if the White Star saw further ahead (Seeing the success of Caronia and adopting that model) so I'd say 66/34 with 66 being White Star failing and the 34 being them making it.

@McLarenMercedes

Жыл бұрын

@@SudrianTales The Great Depression. Countless of manufacturers, companies and banks went under. It was the catalyst which brought Hitler to power in Germany. Roosevelt's New Deal. The end of the Pound Sterling as the world's most foremost spare currency. Made millions lose their jobs and become homeless. i don't think any of you seem to realize what a pivotal event that was for the 20th century. Here's what I say. White Star Line balanced on the edge of the abyss for most of its existence. Even in a hypothetical version of history where the Great Depression never happens (the government restricting the insane laissez faire economy and imposing governing bodies and regulations to keep the greedy gamblers in check) I don't see White Star Line surviving for long after WWII (though WWII would never happen in a No Great Depression world).

In some way, the White Star Line is around. As long as the Nomadic is still around so too will the White Star Line.

This is one of my favorite videos that you’ve made! Bruce Ismay is always made out to be evil even though all he did was survive. Also, love the little jab at Chase! 😂🥴 Thank you for this!

@logotrikes

Жыл бұрын

Bit more involved than surviving the disaster. It was at his urging that many lifeboats were removed during the design stage. He urged Captain Smith to step on the gas to get to NY earlier. Not a caring guy putting money and sensationalism above all else...

@dylanhutson374

Жыл бұрын

@@logotrikes Did you even watch the video?

@chrisinnes2128

10 ай бұрын

Bruce Ismay was ordered to get into a lifeboat by the captain

Jay Bruce Ismay has the *ultimate* late-victorian mustache. A man with facial hair like that has a career either running a transportation empire or tying women to railroad tracks. A+ job, Bruce.

@ExothermicRxn

10 ай бұрын

Joseph Bruce Ismay

Nice to see the face that goes with the voice! Enjoy your channel very much.

Thank you so much for this excellent documentary about White Star and it’s movers and shakers. I especially enjoyed your background information about Bruce Ismay, which was most enlightening about his character. You have a real talent for this and I admire how you summarise complex issues so clearly and succinctly. Thank you. I’ve really enjoyed this one. My own family have crossed and intercrossed the story several times. Great great grandfather was a coachman to the Carlisle family at Enfield House in Belfast. My great uncle worked at Harland and Wolff and was one of the myriad of workers who built the Titanic. My father in law (born 1907) was an industrial blacksmith on Tyneside, making the huge anchor chains etc. Work was tough to get in the 1930s and he moved across the river to work at Palmers shipyard in Jarrow. When work ceased due to the recession, they were left hungry and destitute. They decided to March to London to ask for help from the government. He was one of those men who marched - known today as the Jarrow March, or Jarrow crusade. He got to the outskirts of London before collapsing and having to return home, and it took a considerable time to recover his health. However the government did help Palmers, and gave them the contract to scrap a couple of ships - giving them the Berengaria - and the Olympic - to break up. In the 1970’s in a box of cutlery I bought at auction was an alabaster Indian looking figurine, with its lower legs broken off. ‘ No problem’ said father in law. He turned it into a lamp, with the surviving legs inset into a thick teak base, and the wire running up to the lamp holder in a brass tube. ‘ The teak is from the deck of Olympic ‘ he said ‘ as is the brass - it’s what they used to use on deck to carry electric wires so the water wouldn’t get to it’ . I still have it.

I think the fact that White Star Line couldn't form the Perfect Trio of Superliners had something to do with it. It all went downhill when The White Star Line lost Britannic in WW1 and they didn't get War Reparations until the early 20's and the massive MV Oceanic wasn't completed. The Loss of Titanic is what probably started the decline.

Ismay seems to have owed his survival from the Titanic to five Chinese sailors... They were part of a group of eight who were travelling in third class on one ticket. As experienced seamen, they understood that something was very wrong when the ship stopped having scraped the iceberg. So, they got dressed and began to make their way all the way up from the bowels of the ship to the boat deck. Five of them went to the side that was commanded by First Officer Murdoch who was allowing men to take to the boats if no more women and children wanted to board them. All sixteen of the main lifeboats had been lowered, leaving the ship with just four collapsible boats. Ismay was helping women and children into that final boat on Murdock's side of the ship and it was about ready to be lowered as nobody else wanted to board her when those five Chinamen arrived and simply got into the boat and squatted down between the seats. Nobody stopped them as the boat was still not full and nobody else wanted to climb aboard, so as the order to lower away was given, Ismay climbed into the boat. Was he inspired by the Chinamen? We will never know, but he did not take a seat that anyone else wanted and spare seats were available. By the way, the other three seamen lucked out and may have gone to the other side of the ship where the boat loading was supervised by Second Officer Lightoller. He disobeyed the captain's orders to load women and children first and only allowed women and children to be loaded. Thus he condemned several hundred men to their deaths that night. Lightoller survived and is presented as the hero of the Titanic, but he was actually the main villain. One of the Seamen managed to swim around in the 28F water until he found a door that he could climb aboard. Again, his experience of the sea saved his life as he knew that he had to get out of that water at all costs. Sadly, the other two died in the disaster. In case anyone is wondering when the Carpathia got to New York with the survivors, the six Chinese seamen were promptly deported by the USA back to Britain, where they vanished from history until fairly recently. However, five of them and Ismay got on board a lifeboat with nobody objecting to their actions and with spare seats still available aboard her.

Another fantastic video. The story of the WSL is full of ups and downs, and you presented the end very well imo.

I never liked how Ismay has been villainized after Titanic, up until today. I think Ismay was a visionary businessman at his time. White Star still exist today to some level. Cunard calls they service philosophy "White Star Service"

@skylineXpert

Жыл бұрын

The way he abandoned titanic. No wonder he was villainized...

@blackopscw7913

Жыл бұрын

@@skylineXpert what would you do in the situation?

@tehfiredog

Жыл бұрын

@@blackopscw7913 Easy choice... take the empty seat. It's one thing to prioritize women and children first, but something all together to leave a seat open - and half that lifeboat was actually empty, per accounts - and go die with the ship just to make some kind of point.

@brucegibbins3792

Жыл бұрын

@@blackopscw7913 I would have sold all I could that was not incumbered by debt, taken up residence in The Bahamas, drunk Rum all day and dancing with the pretty girls.

@blackopscw7913

Жыл бұрын

@@brucegibbins3792 Yeah.

I would not have hesitated to travel on the Olympic - any time, any place. She was awesome. Bradley is looking good! 👍🏻

@jimcrawford5039

Жыл бұрын

If a titanic

@jimcrawford5039

Жыл бұрын

If Titanic had not sunk you would never have heard about the Olympic class.

@androzani

Жыл бұрын

@@jimcrawford5039 To be fair, the nautical history community probably wouldn't exist at such a capacity as it does today if the Titanic didn't sink. Their flag ship would have been the Lusitania disaster and it would still be rather small at that. I think what captured the people to the ship, on top of the unsinkable rumors, was shown in that quote from the beginning of the video. EVERYTHING was against this ship's voyage. From her sister's accident with the Hawk, to the cold water merge. It's amazing how everything fell into place that faithful night.

@mattc2094

Жыл бұрын

@@androzani that’s true… there is a surprisingly large amount of shipping history buffs, which KZread channels like this have brought together. I agree, it was this extraordinary event of the titanic sinking that has spawned this interest in shipping history. Most enthusiasts (myself included) start with an interest in titanic, and then move on to other ships and lines… but if it weren’t for titanic, maybe they never would have become interested to begin with.

Excellent video! I could easily envision a feature movie based on this subject. The various chief personalities could be expanded to capture the drama of the time. The ending would have a picture of the RMS Queen Mary to show what became of these struggles. Thank you from Alaska

Imagine if theres a universe where Ismay manage to turn the company around and he died happley with the Oceanic 3 sailing with great success and the company stocks going up once again

@mattc2094

Жыл бұрын

A fascinating scenario… I’m sure the white star line could never have imagined the Cunard line to be still going, all these years later! It would be cool to see Cunard’s old rival still going strong too…

I am not surprised bruce got off titanic while he had the chance knowing hundreds of others were going to an painful icy grave including children. I think it scared the living hell out of him. It is human instinct to survive. But many others including crew members knew exactly what was to come and didn't jump into a lifeboat. Those are the real heroes that helped many to live while sacrificing their own lives.

Great in-depth coverage. One of your best. Perhaps you run a series on the old ship companies that will round out your videos on ships. (You can cross-reference them in the your notes.)

What an entertaining and compelling video essay on the White Star Line! Time to binge your videos!

Another excellent video. I have been an ocean liner fan for years and always enjoy learning more about the ships and the shipping lines.

I find the press always try to fuel public hurt in the wake of a tragedy by finding someone to blame and they decided that Ismay was their villainous poster boy, sadly. Excellent video as always B. O. B.! 👍😊🚢

So a few weeks back KZread suggest to watch a video about the Whit Star Line and I've been hooked watching so many ship videos. I've always been interested in ships and love looking at old ships anytime I go on vacation and am near a retired ship.

Thank you. I live very close to the River Mersey, and I'm fascinated to see the Liverpool waterfront on film in your excellent features. The site of the old landing stage is often occupied by the present generation of cruise liners, but they do not have the lines of the previous generation of ships. one possibility did occur to me regarding a future project: A look at the artists and desigenrs work on the interiors of the greatest liners, I know that Lalique the celebrated French designer was commissioned to work on the interior of at least one of the great French liners, and William Heath Robinson worked on at least one UK registered vessel. Thank you for sharing your work.

Excellent video! Thank you for dispelling the well-known caricatures of J. Bruce Ismay. I'm sure this was new information for many.

The loss of the RMS Titanic and subsequently Ismay’s retirement was the beginning of the end for the WSL. As for the question asked at the end… I’d say Lord Kylsant put the final nail in the coffin.

You have such a soothing voice! I love your videos and the stories attached to them! Thank you so much.

Absolutely love your channel, such in depth information! Your interest in marine venues is stunning. That said, wow, great overview on Bruce Ismay, so much more to him than history has allowed. I'm sure he would appreciate your detailed overview! And yes, Hurst, what an ego, similar to someone else in the media at the moment. Thank You!

I enjoy and admire your content very much. I look forward to each new video. These stories of the great ships fascinate me.

Love your videos! Very comprehensive, and your distinctive voice adds a lot!

Maybe you can also make a video about Hapag and the North German Lloyd, the similar rivalry to WSL and Cunard that also ended with merging

I will never tire of the atmosphere of these videos, nor their topics. This was very well-put-together, to say the least! 👍 Also where on earth did you get that footage at 14:03? :0

There is an argument to be made that Titanic had done in the WSL, but I think the Great Depression was more responsible. It forced the company to end construction on RMMV Oceanic III and forced them to scrap several ships. So when WSL and Cunard were forced to merge, Cunard was always gonna get the majority share of the company.

Hearst was pure slime. What he did to Fatty Arbuckle was unforgiveable slander.

Thoughtful and thorough research into this one. Not that your other content isn’t thoroughly researched.

Bradley, great video! Thank you so much!

The white star line was an exceptional company i wish that could survive the 30s

Their biggest mistake was selling out to IMM. They were doing well, if not better than any other shipping company in the world at the time, so the Olympic Class still would have been built. Just greed by shareholders, but the offer would certainly have been tough to say no to. Unheard of before, and certainly unheard of after.

@jamesseaman2950

10 ай бұрын

Morgan offered a price that was 10x earnings. Can you really blame them for taking the deal?

That people say Ismay should’ve rejected the seat in honor is stupid. I gurantee that if that opportunity arose to yourself and you realized that if you didn’t take it you’d definetely die then you would take it most likely. Ismay wans’t a saint but it’s kinda sad how much un-deserved hate he’s gotten…

I have exactly this amount of time before work. Perfect. Thanks for sharing.

Nice Mamiya, I was about to add that model to my Bronica SQA system but digital landed. Very informative video.

We all want to say we would stay, but I don't think I would. No one around, unfilled boat, yeah I'll take it. Bruce didn't deserve the flak he got over surviving. That's just how I feel, doesn't take away if you don't agree.

@monsieurcommissaire1628

Жыл бұрын

I do agree🚢❤️

@kermit1211

Жыл бұрын

Plus he aboard as a passenger on the ship not an officer. It’s not really his responsibility to help in the evacuation

If there’s ever another film about Titanic it should be kinder to Ismay.

You really do make the most thoughtful and insightful liner content on KZread. I follow and enjoy several liner history related channels but your perspective on the incidents, the circumstances and social environment surrounding them, really elevate your content. Bravo!

@BigOldBoats

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!

Wow thankyou for your in depth research into Bruce Ismay! I had no idea he was 6”4! Indeed Ismay was unfairly vilified. History is being kinder to him. In my opinion, white stars biggest mistake was not taking better care of survivors/crew post-titanic, and perhaps merging with IMM before titanic. Maybe there would never have been a titanic, if history took a difference course

As an Australian /Canadian, its interesting that my interest in trans Atlantic steamers are you, a Canadian and an Australian that runs a seperate vlog! Great work. Thanks.

I didn't know about the dispute with Hearst. I had heard before that he was a ... well...not nice man. So sad about White Star. I'd have loved to see them continue. Bruce Ismay did indeed get vilified. I frankly can't see it. There was a seat on one of the last lifeboats and no one was around on the deck. Why shouldn't he take it?

@kylosun

10 ай бұрын

Cunard acquired the White Star Line, so it does live on, in a way. To this day, Cunard staff are taught to give passengers what they call the "White Star Line service".

Amazing. I had no idea Ismay was not the villain portrayed in Movies and books. Thanks for a great video

Great video! Just a quick fact check: Ismay didn’t retire as President of IMM because of the Titanic disaster. He had decided in early 1912 that he would resign from the presidency so as to fulfill a long held desire of Harold Sanderson to be president before retirement. In February 1912, Ismay informed Morgan and Co. of his decision to leave the presidency in June 1913 and proposed Sanderson taking over after him. Despite the Titanic disaster, this is exactly what happened, with Ismay retiring at the end of June and Sanderson beginning his tenure as president in July. Reference: “The following statement was published in the Tenth Annual Report of the IMMC: New York, June 2, 1913 It is with very great regret that the Board of Directors, in accordance with Mr. Ismay's wish expressed in January, 1912, accepted on January 2, 1913, the resignation of Mr. J. Bruce Ismay as President of the Company, effective June 30th, instant. The Board takes this opportunity to express its high appreciation of the value of the services rendered the Company by Mr. Ismay since its inception, and to acknowledge with gratitude his unvarying devotion to its best interests. By order of the Board, Emerson E. Parvin, Secretary.” Details of Ismay and Sanderson’s discussions, as well as Ismay’s other correspondence, can be found in ‘The Ismay Line: The Titanic, the White Star Line and the Ismay Family’ by Wilton J. Oldham ‘The White Star Line: An Illustrated History 1869-1934’ by Paul Louden-Brown For anybody interested in quick, accessible blogs on the matter: titanichistoricalsociety.org/ismay-titanic-paul-louden-brown/ titanichistoricalsociety.org/international-mercantile-marine-company/

Ismay later lost a leg to diabetes and yet still donated to old sailors homes and was a huge advocate for all sailors.

Thank you for another very informative and interesting video. Much appreciated. All the best from Sydney Australia 🇦🇺

Thank you so much for this.

Splendid documentary of the much needed topic. Always had a soft spot for WSL.

@stargazer5784

Жыл бұрын

I have a soft spot for history, but the WSL, not so much. Remember that they had the unmitigated gall to bill the surviving family members of Titanic's crew for uniforms lost when she sank.

@ExothermicRxn

10 ай бұрын

@@stargazer5784 What’s your evidence for this assertion?

Seeing the Mauretania and Olympic at Jarrow still hurts my heart.😢

@namord1923

Жыл бұрын

Thats Southampton

Another wonderfully informative and entertaining video! Keep up the great work!

Great vid Big Old Boats! Very informative.

Very well done video excellent research and presentation...

Thank you for speaking out for Bruce Ismay, I knew a little but I’ve learnt a lot.

I think the missed window of opportunity for WSL came about in 1924 when the immigration act was executed. Had they at that point made an investment in the express service for two new liners similar to the Bremen and the Europa they would have had a huge upper hand towards the competition, once depression struck. Their fleet in 1924 was all designed for carrying huge amounts of immigrants and a new generation of ships would have been needed to cater for this big change in the market. Instead, they paid out huge shareholder dividends and had no reserves when 1929 hit.

@mattc2094

Жыл бұрын

That’s a brilliant point… I think you’re right. More, smaller economical ships, maybe focused on cruising, or even “booze-cruises” during prohibition might have changed things for WSL

Ismay Sr. reminds me a lot of my own father. He too is incredibly smart and holds me to a high standard. In fact, just as how he didn't want Bruce to receive any special treatment when he first started working with the company, when I began middle school, attending the same school my dad went to back in his day, he specifically requested that I wasn't treated any differently from the rest of the students there, just because I share his name. He is the man who helped make me who I am today and he means the world to me. I'm sure Bruce felt the same about his own father too. Speaking of Bruce, I had no idea that in his later years he came back to the White Star Line to try and save it. That only further solidifies the fact that he has been treated way too unfairly by history. I regretfully admit that I too was once part of the hoard who believe that he was a cowardly, careless and dare I say corrupt individual. Granted, I was younger at the time and didn't know nearly as I do now, but still. It just goes to show the power of media. That Hurst fella was a pos: there's no other way of putting it. He is an example of everything wrong with media, especially today. But back to Bruce, out of all the depictions of him done through the years, I think he was best represented in the '58 film _'A Night to Remember.'_ With all I understand now, it depicted him most accurately. It's a blasted shame that the White Star Line fell. Like Pan Am, I often wonder why no one tries to revive it again today. If I didn't have plans for starting up my own shipping line which is destined to be far greater than what White Star ever was, I'd be seriously tempted to do so myself. In the alternate timeline series I'm developing, the what-ifs of Titanic and Britannic not sinking, Ismay never leaving, and the company recovering from Kylsant wrecking everything are the primary drivers of the story. Personally, while it was by no means the straw that broke the camel's back, it is my belief that if Titanic never sank, probably none of this would've happened. Ismay wouldn't have stepped down from White Star, and the company would've continued to have that strong leadership throughout its life. It probably also wouldn't have been sold to the Royal Mail Steam Packet Company, and if its fortunes were in sound enough condition to ride out the Great Depression without the need for government funds, the merger with Cunard may not have happened. I still think they would've met their end in the 60s-70s come the Jet Age, but who knows: maybe they'd still be around today. This was one of the most fascinating topics you could've possibly covered and I came away with even more insight to the White Star Line's history than ever. Nice job. :D

Beautiful, thank yiu!

Very incredible documentary I was always curious what happened to the White Star Line

I’m glad that Ismay’s story is now being reanalyzed and that he is receiving the recognition that he deserves.

That quote from Lightoller is 100% the truth that everyone forgets about. If one thing had been different Titanic would be a footnote in maritime history books. Everything that needed to go wrong for it to sink and it did it perfectly. Sometimes the universe just says fuck you and there's not much to be done about it but try to survive and wait it out.

Very good video, though the Royal Mail Case deserves its own video! The cut-off for whether or not a male passenger on the Titanic got a pass on surviving from the culture and press of the time seems to mostly come down to whether or not the crew asked them to get into the lifeboat to serve as an oarsman, or had them/let them jump or slide down the ropes after lowering away had already begun.

A really fantastic and informative piece. Thank you for putting it together. I learned a lot. Much kudos 👍✅

I'm so glad you shown your face, because while I LOVE your voice, my husband thought you were some kind of robot! 🙃 You have great control over your tone. I told him it was a real voice!

Nice job!

I think that, if Ismay had been supported by Morgan and IMM, he wouldn’t have retired and White Star would never have had to suffer the depredations of Kylsant. My very uneducated opinion, you understand. Great video, really enjoyed it.

I originally negged this video 'cause I thought it would ignore the fumbling of Owen Phillips(Kylsant). But in a nutshell the video is on point; so thumbs up. Good Job. In the words of NRP Bonsor writing in 1963 about the White Star after the Titanic sinking, .."occultation of the White Star eventually passed, but the old lustre never returned."

Interested with more of these. Great vid! Can you please create video what happenee to Harland and Wolff after they knew that the Titanic sank?

Excellent episode Sir!!!🙏👌🦉

I've never been particularly interested in ships of any kind, except to see photos of old liners and lament the long-gone grandeur of the age of robber barons and a downtrodden working class. (Come to think, we still have both of those things, so why don't we still have--- Oh, right, airplanes.) But I find your channel fascinating, and your content well researched and well presented. Thanks for your hard work!

For all intents & purposes, Ismay died the night the Titanic sank as well. Had he known that his actions would result in the negative publicity & damage to reputation, he might've stayed behind. Death would've been more merciful rather than go through what he did. Living with those decisions every day would be unbearable. Can't blame the guy for doing something that we all probably would have done. No way to tell unless we're actually in that situation. Excellent video & presentation!

7:28 - 7:32 "J.P. Morgan, who you may know from that ATM down the street that smells like urine." 😂😂😂

@stuartgmk

Жыл бұрын

👍👍👍👍👍

Excellent- thank you !

This video ought to be in the running for greatest Maritime History Video on youtube. Fantastic content.

Great episode!

Love ur videos keep up the good work !!

Looking good my guy! Bet surfshark paid extra for such a handsome face reveal ;)

It's just sad how poorly Ismay was portrayed in media. Between him and first officer William Murdoch, Cameron's movie really disrespected these men. It's honestly one of the few reasons why I'm just not fond of the movie. It was a cinematic masterpiece without a doubt. But the cheesy love story and the blantent lies and disrespect for people who should have gotten more credit than they did in the story made me overall not enjoy it.

@ExothermicRxn

10 ай бұрын

Members of the Titanic Historical Society were consultants on the film and had raised this concern with Cameron (iirc it was Paul Louden-Brown, former vice president of the society and a noted Titanic historian). Apparently they were told that it’s what the audience expects and so the movie had to have a villain in Ismay.

my girlfriend and i love your videos so much. were always excited when a new video drops - one constructive piece of criticism though - your microphone or mixing makings it really really hard to understand you (we both like your voice but its just so hard to understand you... quite frequently) - i would suggest using a compressor or adding compression after recording. this will keep the vocal audio at a nice, even level throughout the video and prevent your voice from being drown out from the music/muffled when hitting certain syllables.

That was very interesting. Thanks.

Good to know about Surfshark and 'Murder, She Wrote'. I have a heck of a time finding episodes.

Brilliant video & info. Even more nice to see the face behind the cam. (:

Great video 😊

Extremely well written documentary. I learned a lot here. Thank you.

@BigOldBoats

9 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it, thank you!