The weird thing about the iron bomber to me is that, after a lot of use of the weapon, it started to feel like it's just the way that stock should be. Stock feels like the sidegrade to me after getting used to the fuse time and rolling because those things feel like they're more in my control using the iron bomber. I can plan better around blocking off chokepoints and taking out sentries just because I don't have to feel like I'm guessing at where the grenades will be when they blow.

@yabox

4 жыл бұрын

Same

@yiy8030

2 жыл бұрын

How does this how 600 likes but only one comment? Wait…

@riri-pk1gb

2 жыл бұрын

oooo

Stock has 6 barrels because in the early days demo had 6 pipes

@theansweris421

5 жыл бұрын

FALSE. The stock has 1 barrel and 6 cylinders (like a revolver). The iron bomber just has 4 barrels and 4 chambers (like a double barrel shotgun, but x2).

@iamninja435

5 жыл бұрын

no

@harryvpn1462

5 жыл бұрын

Blaze Valve nevers changes models, thats why the stock grenade launcher has 6 barrels and 4 pipes and Loch N' Load has 2 barrels and 3 pipes

@theansweris421

5 жыл бұрын

@@harryvpn1462 The barrel is the thing that projectiles come out of. The stock grenade launcher has one barrel, but six cylinders, like a revolver.

@TheOwlMan8850

5 жыл бұрын

It's actually because the demoman is drunk as fuck and can't see how many pills can fit in his guns

All the stock high level demos are demos who no longer play and played in the pre iron bomber era

hi I'm a high level competitive demo in North America, and I have a decent understanding of some TF2's mechanics. The reason almost every competitive demoman uses Iron Bomber is because of what you basically said, you get free damage by playing the exact same way. At medium to long ranges, anything you are trying to direct will most likely still take damage because the rollers will land right beside them and will det faster. As for some of the mechanics you mentioned in the video that you were unsure about. The reason if feels like you hit more directs is because the Iron Bomber has a much more consistent flight path. the Stock Grenade Launcher will randomly select what direction the pill is facing when launched (sideways for example) and will randomly spin it as well. This makes it so Stock Grenades will have much more inconsistent ranges and will shoot off to the side much more than the Iron Bomber, due to air resistance that you briefly mentioned in the video. It might not seem like much when you look at it, but it's definitely enough to just barely miss people at medium or longer ranges. EDIT: So when I wrote this comment, this was the understanding that the tf2 community had about how the Iron Bomber functioned at the time. Now, 2 and a half years later, it is commonly understood that that iron bomber does in fact have a larger projectile. It's possible it could have always been this way or changed at some point over that last couple years because of some bug, because if you watch other videos going over the subject, the way the Iron Bomber's projectile actually gets it's increased size, it's done strangely in the code compared to other items. I won't go too into detail about this, but I think it's a good example of learning to take things with a grain of salt, as well as the weirdness of TF2, which I know I'll be learning from. There is a lot of old info in forum posts or in other areas of the internet that was once true or functionally true about TF2, but with a game that has been out for this long that has been changed so drastically over time with updates, it's inevitable that things will change, bugs will arise, and our understanding will grow. Functionally we knew the Iron Bomber was easier to hit with, and our reasons for believing so might have been correct, but not the whole picture, or maybe even entirely wrong from the beginning, but we'll keep learning and playing because we love TF2. A fun, little known fact to many casual players though regarding player hitboxes, is that there are separate player hitboxes for projectiles (example: rockets) and hitscan (example: shotgun). Hitscan hitboxes are fairly accurate to the model of the class, while ALL projectile hitboxes are a rectangular box surrounding the model, that is locked in position so the flats are facing the North, South, East and West sides of the map and they are all the exact same size for every weapon and class. This means that the scout has lots of open and free space in his projectile hitbox where there is only air, while the heavy is big enough to slightly stick out of it. This also means, that if you are being shot at from a diagonal angle in relation to the map, then your projectile hitbox will be roughly 50% bigger.

@TF2CrunchyFrog

6 жыл бұрын

"while ALL projectile hitboxes are a rectangular box surrounding the model, that is locked in position so the flats are facing the North, South, East and West sides of the map and they are all the exact same size for every weapon and class (...) if you are being shot at from a diagonal angle in relation to the map, then your projectile hitbox will be roughly 50% bigger." Holy shit, I didn't know that last bit. I know the projectile hitbox was just one big box, but I had assumed the projectile hitbox turned with the player model. o_O

@Clockster_

6 жыл бұрын

Game scientists... O_o

@bojackhorseman4176

5 жыл бұрын

Huh. Seems like I gotta try and hit people diagonally more often then.

@gendalfgray7889

5 жыл бұрын

@@TF2CrunchyFrog THATS WHY TF2 SO LAGGY. WHY ON EARTH SO MANY HITBOXES???

@daennoe935

5 жыл бұрын

And... after all, (and sorry for the timing of my comment), which primary do you recommend (according to your experience)? Because... as a casual player, I tend to play way better with the Iron Bomber than with Stock, but still I've tried to go with the later for practicing and getting better.

If you miss with the iron bomber, the grenade won't roll too far from your target and will explode quicker and you might catch the target with the blast. You can say that it's more forgiving with misses that stock. Overall it's personal preference.

@st4tictf2

6 жыл бұрын

Yep, I find the upsides (increased blast radius) of the stock pretty much too situational, so I tend to use the Iron to catch them even if I miss. Stock rollers do no damage b/c people can react to it and avoid them, making them useless.

@alceusrydan6237

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's why iron bomber is kind of a crutch weapon like the scorch shot for pyro because even if you miss, you can still deal damage with the roller. I started to train myself to use stock more to not depend on rollers getting kills for me. It also made my pipes easier to hit for some reason. Idk stock > iron bomber

@vermin4275

5 жыл бұрын

@@alceusrydan6237 Not really, the Iron bomber is much better for direct hit playstyles, because you don't have to factor in random TF2 bullshit physics to hit your mark, the stock is better when going for splash damage.

@blob5907

4 жыл бұрын

so you like to miss more often?

Iron bomber: easy airshots. Stock: fires at a general direction where a enemy was. Somehow hits with a roller. I swear it alway happens.

@mrkevinkillercrafterminecr895

4 жыл бұрын

Kanna Kumai yep.

@thememer7039

4 жыл бұрын

Sometimes I Get A Kill With A Roller With Stock

@Niiue

4 жыл бұрын

Kanna The Weeb stock is essentially "oops, *accidental* splash damage!"

@NoName-fz5ed

3 жыл бұрын

Iron Bomber: good aim means it lands right next to the enemy and instantly booms ez clap

@neeevirus

3 жыл бұрын

"Kanna The Weeb" I've seen that name before.... *HOLOLIVE FLASHBACKS* *Wait you know tf2?*

I just think the iron bomber is better suited to players that like to go for direct hits and play more aggressively, and that's kinda the way you play, so I'm not surprised you see a better performance switching to this weapon.

@kohffeee

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah the advantage of Iron Bomber is just the Fuse time and its easy to hit enemies at once or twice shot.But I still prefer Stock Gun cause it suit's me more and the fact I love Stock Gun of Demo is because It's easy for me to predict where will the enemy will go If I miss once I can do again and I will ensure that I will hit him.Stock has bouncy grenade which is the disadvantage of it but I use that as an advantage I use to bounce it on the wall and it it miss the advantage will be the Fuse time , you know when Spy pop out to assist his team and he didn't notice the grenade on the ground.I found that more easy to kill rather than Iron Bomber.

@222MovieMan

6 жыл бұрын

Agressitivity has nothing to do with the weapon itself. You can play however you want with stock aswell and it’s still in the end up to personal preferences.

@TCLG6x6

6 жыл бұрын

its better for people who only hit shots and miss shots, since you get a free fucking sticky if oyu miss. it should do less splash damage imo

@clupel1111

6 жыл бұрын

TV aggression

@ninjaassassin27

6 жыл бұрын

Exactly. I don't like gambling with my pipes. The iron bomber removes that element.

If every new weapon had to be utterly, massively different in its mechanism from every other weapon that class has, Demoman would only have maybe two grenade launchers, Soldier maybe three rocket launchers, and the Heavy only a single minigun. And everyone would be whining why Valve didn't add more weapons, yet every new weapon concept would be insanely difficult to balance against the existing ones.

@Toofty

6 жыл бұрын

CrunchyFrog I would love this but I know I'm in the minority :)

@elronman

6 жыл бұрын

You must have missed the Uber update where everyone got slightly different statted weapons. They were all so abysmal that most of them got massive overhauls to how they worked making them noticibly different. Absolutely lazy update a lot of people were ticked off. Yes toothy you''re totally right. We barely even have any "sligthly different' weapons anymore.

@hughmungus99

6 жыл бұрын

_"toothy"_

@nikolasbarkauskis7220

5 жыл бұрын

lol

@mitchell9959

5 жыл бұрын

Natasha and Tomislav are significantly different

“I’m assuming they’re (hitboxes) similar” How times have changed

@temptedbyfood7526

2 жыл бұрын

how times have changed

@lwsixo2726

Ай бұрын

How times has changed

i think this is kinda like tomislav vs stock, use the one that suits your playstile, they're kinda the same

@kappalul9203

6 жыл бұрын

Camile well said mate, no more no less

@dirkdirk1467

6 жыл бұрын

kappa lul the tomislav is a direct upgrade tho

@thornsgaming1741

6 жыл бұрын

Pear Shack W R O N G

@queencyrys6309

6 жыл бұрын

Pear Shack trust me, those extra shots per second mean everything in close quarters

@BagelBrain

6 жыл бұрын

Horrible misuse of commas.

3:04 3-pointer from downtown.

@Toofty

6 жыл бұрын

xD

@theultimategamer3051

5 жыл бұрын

xD

@samsonn5446

5 жыл бұрын

Bang !!! Ray Allen wins the game.

@360bunker9

4 жыл бұрын

also the gun shooting sounds like a basketball

@Eddie-yv1ix

3 жыл бұрын

Banngggg bannnggg

YEARS later, we finally learn that the iron bomber grenades straight up have a hitbox 9 times as big as the stock grenade launcher grenades. lmao.

@minnow9590

3 жыл бұрын

That’s the main reason I use stock, it helps me get better at hitting pipes without thinking I’m using a crutch.

@ironraccoon3536

3 жыл бұрын

@@minnow9590 yea same

@waitressroyal8561

3 жыл бұрын

it really isn't that much bigger tbh. even if that wasn't a thing, you would still prolly be able to hit more pipes as they don't go as far.

@johnt3606

2 жыл бұрын

@@minnow9590 im actually good at both but I only use iron bomber because I find it cool and even bought it

@Captain_Toasty

2 жыл бұрын

@BradynLee09 AKTCHUALLY thE IrOn bOmbEr OnlY hAs A 100% (2x) lArgEr hItbOx!!1!1!

Personally, I like to use the Stock Grenade Launcher when taking out Engineer nests and groups of enemies and use the Iron Bomber for 1v1 fights due to the the smaller explosion radius that the Iron Bomber has which can be the difference between getting or not getting a kill through splash damage.

@jeffdaniel772

6 жыл бұрын

why do i see you everywhere

@ThomasKingGaming

6 жыл бұрын

Bro u are the first guy I see a comment on on any tf2 video

@buckethattrick9443

6 жыл бұрын

That would explain why the iron bomber is so popular in sixes--almost no Engineers and a ton of 1v1s.

@Armokogames

6 жыл бұрын

i saw you on a bill wurtz piano video aswell! you're everywhere!

@whitegradient5182

6 жыл бұрын

StickMaster500 aand your here again

I know I've said this a lot (especially in this channel) but I run the iron bomber and scot res.

@brodyatkinson1960

3 жыл бұрын

Scot is no

@soopcanwastaken

3 жыл бұрын

I like this combo too.

@pineapplejuice1109

3 жыл бұрын

The load out from heaven

@alexandredesouza3692

3 жыл бұрын

Why? I've never tried those together. Is there a benefit?

@pineapplejuice1109

3 жыл бұрын

It's good when used correctly

the iron bomber feels heavy when you shoot it. the regular grenades (which I pretty much never use), feel really light. the cannon ball surprisingly doesn't feel that heavy.

@riankek3809

5 жыл бұрын

well their all the same weight but the way their shaped determines things like speed or how far it normally shoots

@pootisvonpoot1801

4 жыл бұрын

Cannonball feels like a darn weighted balloon when I shoot it.

@BIadelores

4 жыл бұрын

It's that sound effect which sounds really metallic and robust

@lukeedwardes6041

3 жыл бұрын

same

@lukeedwardes6041

3 жыл бұрын

perhaps its the sound?

11:41 min LOL, that double-take the RED Engineer did... Turns around, sees a Demoman standing behind him, turns back to his blueprint, suddenly his brain pings him 'hey, that was a BLU Demoman!', he swivels around again to stare at you, wondering you you came from.

Now buy an unusual iron bomber :)

@seiler3485

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, somehow Valve nailed unusual effects on the Iron Bomber, it just feels so clean and centered on the barrels ^^

@spidertopus

6 жыл бұрын

Do it, you won't

@MegaThenman

6 жыл бұрын

Or just a strange festive one with no skin, they look lovely too, and won't break the bank

@kylelawson221

6 жыл бұрын

sold my unusual iron bomber. R I P

@d1want34

4 жыл бұрын

Im using a strange with statclock.. Lovinf it

I feel like I play more of a wall than anything using stock; for example on Badwater I most likely stick to my team mates, especially the soldier- and/or heavy-MeeM pairs, dish out decent damage and always mind the cart. When playing with the Iron Bomber, I go for the more 'sneaky' ways, for example the house on Badwater's 1st to 2nd point or around the corner above last, you get the idea. I get into 1vs1 scenarios more often and result in targetting health pack locations, to patch myself up and finish weakened enemies. So, without an obvious reason, I play more DPS-centered with stock and pick-centered with Iron. :D

TOOFTY! RELOAD!!! PLEASE!!

@KommissarBanx

6 жыл бұрын

gum ball I used to manually reload all the time. Fuck auto reload. That animation was annoying as shit with spy and scout.

@ThePhantom4516

6 жыл бұрын

KommissarBanx you shouldn't be paying attention to viewmodels while playing

@TheJosiahTurner

6 жыл бұрын

gum ball he has it on, he just doesn’t take any time (literally 4 seconds) to reload his GODDAMN LAUNCHER

@girf4233

6 жыл бұрын

gum ball alright, use the ambassador with auto reload and basic viewmodels, have fun

@lightlysal

6 жыл бұрын

KILLEKIRAHVI - we all know basic tf2 huds are trash

2 years later we finnaly know that iron bomber has a giant hit box

@BoyusGoyus

3 жыл бұрын

0:24 lmao

@harrogeorge7878

3 жыл бұрын

And it has the exact same physics model otherwise

Stock VS Iron Bomber Which one wins? Loose Cannon

@red_d7912

4 жыл бұрын

@@Carl_Johnson_aka_CJ anti-wm1pyro , anti-demoknight. More damage if you play right

@red_d7912

4 жыл бұрын

@@Carl_Johnson_aka_CJ but if pyro with pocket med and with flog? Or pyro stay near corner?

@red_d7912

4 жыл бұрын

@@Carl_Johnson_aka_CJ he is near you, and he go to you, you cant go away

@chefnova8531

4 жыл бұрын

@@red_d7912 to be honest phlog pyro are so easy to sticky trap they are so thirty. but apart your class (in your scenario) is in a 2v1 situation so in a weaker position thats normal but you have something called a team, retreat with your sticky or a charge and place a sticky trap in case. a sniper a spy can kill the medic or the pyro, plus all projectile class can spam at the pyro cuz he have phlog and so cant reflect. (if he is near you and kill you its normal its a ambush class who perform better in close quarter) any combo in tf2 can be beat if not its you and your team faults.

@HumanoidCreatur

4 жыл бұрын

​@@red_d7912 I belive your right, mate. If you know how to double donk constantly , The Loose Cannon can be the best weapon in the game.

I dont know if its just me but the iron bmber feels like it has a larger projectile hitbox. Using the stock and seeing grenades fly past the enemies head by the skin of their ear while the iron bomber I can direct hit enemies by aiming in their general direction.

@mayto420

6 жыл бұрын

Stock has pill tumble

@soopcanwastaken

3 жыл бұрын

Puppet ever so slightly bigger, but technically, yes. enough to make a difference? maybe, maybe.

Iron bomber is great in competetive if you don't have sticks (am talking about rolles) but stock is better for spamming chokes (more splash radious). I was using stock but when i got my strange spec killstreak ironbomber i started to use it more becouse it suited my playstyle to dealing lots off damage

@danielhernandez2575

6 жыл бұрын

Łoziak Your sticks should be enough to cover chokes that it makes stock kind of irrelevant.

@222MovieMan

6 жыл бұрын

It’s all about how you play yes. And what you’re saying right now is you only use it for splash damage basically, and that you rely only on your pipes and not stickies. That’s where people say if you’re inclose combats and people say that the splash damage is low and the just roll away those are the people that doesn’t use stickies. You shouldn’t rely on pipes for most parts, and if you do and choke those pipes then yes the iron bomber is a much better weapon to use. But stickies you use 80% of the times because pipes are a last resort, and when there’s a stalemate and you spam chokes the stock is better because you never really ise pipes a ton.

6 жыл бұрын

TV i usually have some traps laying around or i don't have time to reload stickis (or i jusy want to get gut with pipes)

@sharpsightkillmemes2902

6 жыл бұрын

*THATS A LOT OF DAMAGE*

@someguythatusestheinternet7810

5 жыл бұрын

@@danielhernandez2575 not when you want more mobility with the tide Turner....

I would say stock with stickies Iron bomber with hybrid knight or sticky jumpers

@doubled6490

6 жыл бұрын

This. Iron bomber is better for bombing while stock is better for spam and stickyspam for bombing.

@matthewnickolas4706

5 жыл бұрын

@@doubled6490 I never use Iron with stock sticky and there was no concius decision about it... I somehow felt that with Iron I have better controll over who where and when I attack, therefore I don't need to stickyspam as a backup and just switched to hybrid knight or jumper for mobility. Meanwhile Stock can be used much more creatively with bouncing your pills around corners and have better potential at getting random kills with spam...

@mightyfire8257

4 жыл бұрын

@@matthewnickolas4706 Same thing

Host_timescale has an effect on physics. In half-life for example, falling with host_timescale at 0.1, you'll take more fall damage since it speeds up the physics too. It's not just a straight slowmo/fast forward. Hope this helps :) Edit: I use the iron bomber because it's view model seems smaller so cleaner screen for me :)

@carteriffic1681

3 жыл бұрын

Hey, that downside of the stock? Just use minimized view models. It’s so tiny! Just scroll through the advanced setting, and I hope you notice this to improve your awesome gameplay!

Turns out iron bomber is broken and the hitbox of the iron bomber's balls is much larger

@gavaudan2131

3 жыл бұрын

it's not much larger, it's just larger

@LASAGNA_LARRY

3 жыл бұрын

@@gavaudan2131 It actually is much larger. About 9x the volume of the stock grenade launcher hitbox. kzread.info/dash/bejne/qplkspKrnta5YbQ.html&ab_channel=shounic

I love how the iron bombs can also be used as a sticky bomb in a few ways. The lack of rolling allows you to spam them at the floor, and you can use them to grenade jump.

They fixed it already yay

Ive found myself in the same train of tought that i was doing better with the iron bomber, after some similar testing (without all the stats, purely me analyzing my behaviour) i realized i just dont spam as much with the iron bomber, most of the times i tried to hit directs, so i got rid of the viewmodel and sound, and played with stock for a time trying to aim more consistently, i really do think its placebo, because the main difference with the iron bomber its not significant enough to produce this difference.

Now that video is useless, STOCK GONNA BE META AGAIN.

@sircatangry5864

Жыл бұрын

@@mrfoxyzin58 Yes i use it still lmao.

I have just starting playing for the first time since 2009. I was playing miserably. Starting watching Toofty and am now seeing a massive improvement in my play! Thank you!

I finally have a good place to learn about demo's weapons and his different play styles thank m8 keep up the content

imo iron bomber is better for defense because you're meant to hold a point/defend an area, which is what the rollers of the bomber are good for since they don't roll around everywhere and are more consistent, whereas the stock would be better for offense as corners are good for surprising the enemy and for taking out nests

I don’t know. For me, it feels the other way around. Since I’ve been using stock for so long, when I try to use the Iron Bomber, it doesn’t feel right. Honestly, this comes down to personal preference. I’m better with stock, and others may be better with the Iron Bomber.

Holy fuck man, I used to watch your vidsz just a couple months ago. You're aim is so good now dude. Keep it up

Quality content bro, love how the tf2 community tries to keep the game alive and flowing!

It's like the grenade launcher's echo fighter.

I personally love the iron bomber. Being a Demo main, I feel like I was hitting more directs with it. Also, the iron bomber suits a more aggressive playstyle, wanting to kill more people with splash and directs, stock is bettter for area denial. It’s like the difference between a lvl. 3 sentry and a mini-sentry.

This is a great video. It clearly had a lot of effort put into it. I wish you somehow put accuracy into it like a tally for every shot you took lol

nice bonus clip always make me chuckle

Aged like milk, considering the revelation

@Succer

3 жыл бұрын

The difference between hitting and missing a shot because of the size difference of the hitbox is like 1 pixel. It would never come into play.

@AmBush2048

3 жыл бұрын

@@Succer it's like three times as large, so yes, it is a big difference

@Succer

3 жыл бұрын

@@AmBush2048 But the originally hit box is so tiny anyway. It's like the size of a big marble. An ant that's 3 times bigger than another ant is still tiny.

@DommHavai

3 жыл бұрын

@@Succer Considering that a typical projectile hitbox is 25-37 HU wide, extra 4.7 HU is a massive difference, your target is basically ~15-20% wider and also taller.

@josephg1125

3 жыл бұрын

@@Succer if it truly almost never matters as you claim why do you have a problem with them fixing it?

3:01 I feel bad for that heavy.

I love how the investigation goes through the exact procedure for an IB science internal assessment/experiment

I don't really have anything unique to say, other than me using the iron bomber. soo... I hope you keep do what your doing! I love your video essays and I think its insane how much effort you put in.

Why exactly can't they be reflected back as easily? I like the iron bomber with the charge n targe. It's kind of, as you more or less said, a hybrid of grenades and stickies. Great to be able to get one direct hit and one or two more on the ground. Better when dealing with scouts. Yes, you need a better skin for yours. Suggest neo Tokyo.

@shrimpchris6580

6 жыл бұрын

I think that refers specifically to rollers. Reflecting them on the ground won't do as much because they won't really move back towards the person shooting. And the shorter fuse time means they're more likely to just blow up in the pyros face.

@ludwigiapilosa508

6 жыл бұрын

Shrimpchris - makes sense. Thanks

The reason I only play with stock is to have some consistency. The likelihood of stock being nerfed is very low while an iron bomber has a better likelihood to be changed. I can keep my gameplay the same and hone that skill of playing

Nice video, I prefer the default GL but when tried the IB It felt easier to direct hitting. One more thing, it could be more interesting to check the standard deviation or quartiles, the is average KPM and DPM is more or less equal so statisticly could be equal xd

weeeeeell, now that we got the vid about the broken iron bomber and the larger bounding boxes, i understand why people use the IB and i myself started to use it, and yes i'm hitting more pipes

In my opinion, giving the grenade launcher a quicker self-detonate rollers. The iron bomber can deal cheap damage by just having a slow rolling speed, But with the quicker self-detonate rollers the weapon can actually deal the same cheap damage as the iron bomber

In my opinion Iron Bomber is more competetively viable,but stock is more viable in casual because of the spam and rollers on chokes.

@coryclark9120

6 жыл бұрын

i feel the complete opposite since the grenade launcher pipes last longer and shoot farther with a higher explosion radius they have the potential to hit more people with 1 pipe vs iron bomber where in casual its a clusterfuck and you dont really engage in far range battles and more close range ones

@juuzang

6 жыл бұрын

c0ry actually in comp, your stickies are more used as spam and can reach a further area than any pipe, and the iron bomber is great for all playstyles for a comp demo, as it is a more direct-hit and skill oriented pipe launcher, which can cause a lot of dmg at the high skill level of comp.

@222MovieMan

6 жыл бұрын

John Chooran But then again, your stickies are you first weapon to use everytime with it’s massive damage dealing. You only use pipes when you know you can hit the target, and then it doesn’t matter if it’s stock or iron bomber. I personally prefer stock because with the argument I just stated where I only use stickies for most parts, it’s better to spam with stock when in stalemate.

Shounic covered the hitboxes, and demo likely is so drunk that he forgot that he can load 6 pills into stock

use it with a shield and sword(or bottle, in my experience) for hybridknighting. The iron bomber's reduced fuse and increased predictability allows for pipe jumps, great when you lack an actual stickybomb launcher.

Too bad now todat iron bomber loses.

How about Minigun VS Tomislav? Which one do you prefer?

@pootisbirbz7255

6 жыл бұрын

Well... Tomislav is for long range... While the minigun is for medium range.

@notalive5479

6 жыл бұрын

Not quite. The Tomislav is for aggressive playstyles where the heavy will find himself needing to stay mobile while also keeping his mini-gun ready. The faster spin-up time helps greatly in this, because surprise attacks can be reacted to more quickly, the heavy can be more quiet, and the heavy can spin it up while bunny-hopping to stay more mobile than the stock could, while not losing attack power. I would talk about the accuracy bonus, but in my time playing the tomislav I've never noticed it coming into play. The stocks greater damage output makes it better for situations where the heavy is spun up more often and/or in plain sight. Lets say the heavy is sticking to the cart, then the stock's advantages are more useful. For some examples, if a particularly aggressive heavy is trying to roam around closer to enemy territory, he will find the tomislav more suitable for its speed, quietness, and faster reaction times. If the heavy is staying near allies and the objective, than movement and reaction speed aren't as necessary, so the stocks superior damage output will most times come out on top. tl;dr the tomislav is superior in roaming and playstyles away from your team, while the stock is superior in situations nearby your team, or otherwise staying consistently spun up.

After coming out the red shutter, you can start planting a sticky trap wherever, and grenade jump onto the roof while keeping the trap intact. Love this

0:46 I REALLY expected you to say something else there

Iron Bomber does something that Stock does not for the Hybrid Knight. Easy air time. It is far easier to get airborne with the Iron Bomber due to the grenades staying on the surface they land for a second, allowing for you to jump off it.

The video is now outdated lmao.

I use this to jump around the map while still having a shield equipped and it’s really useful since the rollers are easy to control.

I’ve been playing with the loose cannon, and I’ve found it does up to 150 damage up close with no donk, enough to kill half the classes, and with the donk, could probably kill a soldier and severely weaken a heavy. Thoughts on the weapon?

Iron bomber is for bad demos who can't aim regular pills, it's projectiles have a hitbox that are like 3X the size of regular pills. Crutch for bad demos.

@blusoldier4400

3 жыл бұрын

chill, i use iron bomber cuz fuse time

@near5280

3 жыл бұрын

@@blusoldier4400 crutch for bad demos, no if ands or buts about it. If you use the iron bomber you're a BAD hitbox abusing demo not worth your scrumpy

@DFFilmmaker

2 жыл бұрын

@@near5280 facts

6:12 he realizes those second 2

Now that we learn about the bigger hitbox This video is obscure

I think the last clip is all of TF2 perfectly summarized

I do not use the iron bomber because it is broken. By the way, it has already been fixed?

@raul1476

3 жыл бұрын

No and it will never be fixed because this game is abandoned 😔

@komi_neselimsky

3 жыл бұрын

@@raul1476 o(╥﹏╥)

With the Iron Bomber, the user has an easier time predicting where missed pills are going to detonate, but so has the target. Also, enemies have an easier time fleeing against an opponent with the Iron Bomber, because the bombs won't continue rolling toward them. Just thought I'd mention it.

@RdTrler

6 жыл бұрын

Fleeing enemies may have an easier time of eluding an Iron Bomber's lack of bounce, but fleeing enemies also tend to be missing health. Fleeing enemies also steadily do less and less damage with bullets and rockets as they escape the Demoman. Enemies may also have an easier time predicting where a missed pill will detonate, but then, you know they're predicting this, so this makes enemies more predictable too.

@TF2CrunchyFrog

6 жыл бұрын

True, but on the other hand the bombs won't also bounce and roll past them if you miss.

You mentioned it but i also wanted to add that the risk of getting less splash damage brings the want to miss less and it almost trains the player in a way to be as accurate as possible. Later i feel thing might switch due to style. As a scout player it does feel like they hit you with iron bomber projectiles especially when your up close.

@TooftyTV do you have any go-to server for when you play public if at all? I found that P.A.Y.L.O.A.D. is the best EU server as its full every day of the week and it mainly cause it has the best players you'll find in pubs. Mainly interested because I often see these tf2 videos showcasing skill etc but in pub servers where people are trash so I can't tell if you're good or not tbh.

Or here's a shocking idea: ITS JUST PREFERENCE. Some people are bound to aim better with one than with the other, IF there's a difference. aswell as that whole Team balance thing and all those variables.

Actually the higher sample size of attack wouldnt skew your data unless your sample size was low. Because you didnt ONLY use the grenade launchers, however, there are compounding variables that really put the results of this video into question. Taking Stats has made me a cynical asshole. Never again.

if you do remake this video i have two suggestions: k/d ratio and trying to make the same plays with each launcher while counting in enemy resistance and team assistance

I like it when they slightly tune a weapons stats.

The time when people switched to the Iron Bomber was shortly after MYM, and the competitive players you chose that use stock quit before MYM. The people in your list of Iron Bomber users ALL used stock before MYM. So this comparison is invalid, as every top level demoman is using the Iron Bomber now.

Everything about the iron bomber doesn't necessarily means overpower, but it's undoubtedly cheaper compared to stock since everything has been tuned in a way that makes stock's playstyle easier. While performance wise, it should be an upgrade to stock, design wise, it's a pretty boring weapon imo.

@TF2CrunchyFrog

6 жыл бұрын

Iron Bomber is not an upgrade to stock. Why do people keep repeating that nonsense? It depends on the situation and what you want to do. Fighting an enemy Scout 1v1? Iron Bomber is better, as the grenades stay put and can be placed one in front and one behind the Scout so that he runs into them even if he dodges you direct hits. Trying to destroy a sentry nest behind the corner or inside a shed? Stock grenade launcher with its bouncing pills and larger explosion radius is better suited.

@Kimri

6 жыл бұрын

But those 2 upsides don't really equate well to one another. Sure, that may be the case but there are plenty more attributes to these weapons , given the raw comparison Toofty made in his video. Right of the bat, Iron Bomber already has more upsides compared to stock, and those upsides actually matter more in general combat than stock. As you can see, except for that one attribute of sentry spamming, everything stock does, Iron Bomber can do slightly better, if you can just adjust to it just ever to somewhat accordingly.

@Appletank8

5 жыл бұрын

@@TF2CrunchyFrog instead of bouncing, you could instead stick the bomber 'nades right next to the sentry, yet still out of gun fire.

@matthewnickolas4706

5 жыл бұрын

@@Appletank8 That isn't always possible.... and honestly they should just remove the stock's inconsistent arc. The Iron bomber was meant to be a sidegrade, but sence stock is the only one wich is harder to aim becouse of factors COMPLETLY outside the players controll everyone just takes the - rolldamage

@Appletank8

5 жыл бұрын

@@matthewnickolas4706 I meant in the sense that the thing the Iron Bomber is "bad" at, it can do just fine, with maybe an extra 'nade or so.

can you measure how good the iron bomber is at bombing? like... using the sticky jumper to fly and then firing down below?

ive noticed that when i run stock my grenades always veer slightly to the right of were im aiming. where as ive seen no such veer with the iron bomber. sadly i got so used to the stocks aiming that i cant use the bomber to efficiently now.

I do hope someday we could repeat this experiment but with a greater variety of maps, gamemodes, and including the 6s format. In addition, I do hope valve changes the stats of the Iron Bomber to make it more of a sidegrade rather than upgrade. One Idea is to make the pills unreflectable or harder to reflect, have a slower projectile speed, and do more damage (on direct hit) the farther the pill was launched and less damage if the pill hits directly on a closer target (similar to the crusader's crossbow.).

@MartinPurathur

6 жыл бұрын

Kaboom910 no.

@gmawesome1

6 жыл бұрын

Nitram PlaysGames Please elaborate.

@MartinPurathur

6 жыл бұрын

Kaboom910 I just feel that it really is a sidegrade. Not an upgrade. It is just up to your playstyle. It might feel like an upgrade or a downgrade depending on how you play.

@gmawesome1

6 жыл бұрын

Nitram PlaysGames The thing is you don't need or seldom need to change your playstyle to use the iron bomber. This makes it too similar to stock to make it a sidegrade. Not to mention it allows demoman to do more damage than stock, which makes it an upgrade. The iron bomber is like the Third Degree. The Third Degree is an upgrade rather than a sidegrade from stock with little to no difference in playstyle

@TF2CrunchyFrog

6 жыл бұрын

Iron Bomber is not an upgrade to stock. Why do people keep repeating that nonsense? It depends on the situation and what you want to do. Fighting an enemy Scout 1v1? Iron Bomber is better, as the grenades stay put and can be placed one in front and one behind the Scout so that he runs into them even if he dodges you direct hits. Trying to destroy a sentry nest behind the corner or inside a shed? Stock grenade launcher with its bouncing pills and larger explosion radius is better suited.

After i got the iron bomber as an unlock i used it allways with no exceptions today i tried the grenade launcher and did not hit a single pipe (i got more than 1k hours in tf2 )

i need help I can hit pipes well and ive been using the grenade launcher for both casual and comp and i havent tried the iron bomber in a while i have almost 1300 hours on demo wat do I do?!

I don't know if it's just me but ib easier to dish out roller damage but dishes less roller damage while gl has higher roller damage but difficult to land, this is what I notice when I was playing, I don't know yet I might be wrong. Direct hits I know they do the same damage but for roller damage or maybe is it just because of roller explosion radius?

Someone: NO YOU CAN'T USE THE IRON BOMBER THE STOCK LAUNCHER DOES WAY MORE DAMAGE. Me: haha iron bomber goes deep boom

I bet that they won't add an australium iron bomber Edit: Just make the stock have 6 ammo, and 24 reserve ammo

Those graphs are all very close to each other to make your conclusion. Did you randomize when you would choose iron bomber/stock or would you do x games in a row with stock than the same with the iron bomber? It might have been better to do by game or by round basis so that you can get an average and standard deviation. It would be interesting to record demos of the games and tabulate direct pipes. I still think they're more or less preference and it looks like distance that they travel essentially the same as stock since it appears there is slight variability in the explosion distance.

I like to think that the Demoman stashes bottles of beer in the extra two slots in his launcher.

me : ( looks at iron bomber nerf and this video at the same time ) olso me: welp this is fucking useless

Just wanted to comment: the comparison videos you showed gave different results because of the timescale variable. In Source timescale affects physics in the game - so unless you play on slowed down servers or w/e ignore the one that isn't timescale 1.00. That means that the iron bomber (at least with the given variables in the test) goes slightly further.

The reasson people hit more with the iron bomber isn't how fast the projectile goes, but the more straight arc it has.

I remember seeing a video made exactly like this month's ago. Is this a reupload?

The different travel distance for the IB cooooouuuuld be tickrate. Drag lvls being calculated less accurately at regular speed vs slower timescale?

i started using the iron bomber because I had a strange one, hard to get used to it cuz I like the fact that the pills of the stock bounced on walls, but now I can't play with that strat anymore since i'm now used to the fact that I can just lay a river of pills on the ground like they were stickies so people on the cart or control point are dumb enough to step on them, and idk, it kinda feels more accurate with the iron bomber, and the pill goes a bit faster, just placebo probably

Should have tried how u normally played and do the 2 weapons for attack and defence to see what is better for which

I noticed recently when I tried going back to stock grenade launcher I couldn't hit anything. The projectiles felt extremely slow in comparison. I'm not sure if this is accurate or not but that's how it felt to me. Feels like when I use stock I'm playing with 150 ping and with iron bomber 50 ping. It might be because I'm out of practice with stock but the Iron Bomber just feels easier to use.

Recently when I played TF2. The Iron Bomber was often called 'I can't aim Stock pills" where as I never heard of such when it was initially released. Was there a significant change in how the weapon performs? I rarely play Demo and it just sounds strange.

This man made a full research paper about the iron bomber and grenade launchet

Only different between is do you like lil bounce or not And projectile size is so small that it wont mean that much

I have the iron bomber and been using it since I got it. Never knew it was that good but then again I use the I don't have very many good choices to use. I just now recently got a the black box and The Half-Zatoichi to go with The Concheror for my solider set up and some other weapons to put on my other classes I play that were better then what I currently had.

I think besides fixing the hitbox bug once change that could be made to the iron bomber is maybe make the grenades heavier, as in they would travel a shorter distance and require more adjustment of your aim and maybe also cause more knockback on a direct hit.

Mr Toofty sir? Can you do your patented Toofty Test and test Stock Grenade Launcher vs Loose Canon? Or how about other weapon comparisons like Scattergun vs Force a Nature? Or Rocket Launcher vs Beggar's Bazooka?

I like the Iron Bomber because It covers that "quick explosion" role that stickies usually fill, it frees up my secondary slot for a shield for hybrid knight or a sticky jumper when I get one..

The engie at the end kills me