Wonderful job of reading between the lines to convey a sense of the humanizing of Cutter, Cotillion, and even Shadowthrone! That moment of silence from the ever garrulous Shadowthrone was the part that made me pause the most. I had the sense that it was both for Cotillion and for himself - and, of course, for Hawl and the memories she evoked in him of the paths they had taken and the friends lost along the way. Another beautiful job with a close reading that deepens my appreciation for Erikson’s writing - thank you, A.P.!

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome, Philip. I think that this is a great scene and it really helps illustrate what we mean when we talk about 'show, don't tell'. That moment of Shadowthrone's silence, in private, with no audience but himself and Cotillion, is such a great and insightful one. There is so much there in terms of implied emotion, and it is really revealing of his character, and lets us all see behind the curtain for a second. But I also loved the humour in this scene. That cathartic release that contrasts with the sombre tone so neatly. We never have enough time in our chats to go over all the aspects of the books that we like. So I am very happy to do short videos like this.

You seem to be very good at putting into words what i unconsiously feel while reading... Really enjoyed this, thanks

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

You are very welcome. Thank you for watching. I think there are a lot of things that readers pick up on but we don't always know why we pick up on them. I hope that at least some of these videos help to identify how authors sneak ideas and emotional responses into scenes in ways that are not directly obvious.

It’s amazing that after reading the entire Book of the Fallen that certain scenes can be recalled so vividly. It’s a testament to Mr. Erickson. The humanization of Cotillion and Shadowthrone stuck with me the first time I read it. Cotillion’s wincing and stammering showed a lot of complexity that we hadn’t seen. Somewhere later in one of the books I recall Cotillion having lost some of his humanity after he ascended, but all it takes is one moment or memory to bring you back down to earth so to speak. Great analysis. Thank you!

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Patrick, thanks for watching and for the thoughtful comment. I think that you highlight a great point. Dancer may have lost some humanity, but there are moments when he is reminded of who he was. I think that this character trait is perhaps more realistic than an arc in which all character development is permanent and in one direction. So it is interesting to see it on the page.

Wonderful discussion video! I love the way you highlighted metaphors and subtext in these character interactions. These subtle character interactions made this book a very special read for me, and it amazes me that you can look back at what may have seemed like a brief encounter and learn things that can completely shift your views on characters. Thank you!

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Johanna, I am glad that you enjoyed it.

With every video you release I gain a new appreciation of the series. Keep up the good work.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Nathan, I am very glad that you are enjoying these and that they are adding to your appreciation of the books. Thank you for watching, I really appreciate it

I'm a first time reader who just finished House of Chains (loved it -obviously, its Malazan), and I think this was my favourite scene in the novel. So well written. Love the videos and the channel, thanks!

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much, Alfredo. I am glad that you enjoyed the video. It is a great scene and I think it is a great illustration of how Erikson works characterisation into his description.

ahhh, good ol' literary analysis - love it! Thank you so much for this :) Your videos are always crisp and full of valuable information :)

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Rox, I am glad that you enjoyed it.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Rox, did you watch Ruthan Badd's video. It was brilliant.

@RoxanaMagdaD

3 жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon oh yes, I did and I loved it!

Hey AP! Glad to watch a video on subtextual analysis (There will probably be Spoilers after this point) Yes, that scene arguably shows a good deal of who Kellanved and Dancer were, as well as their depth as Shadowthrone and Cotillion. To add another layer, this connects with the conversation between Tavore and Nok on the same book. The "Old Guard", as Nok puts it, were not "a band" or "a group"... they were a family. The humanity was there in our faces all along, if one stopped to scratch under the surface and think about it for a bit. So when the walls come down and, in Bonehunters we get the "my poor Wickans..." from Shadowthrone and the "the god of assassins, alone, sitting, with his head in his hands...", it was just the natural progression of what was laid out as early as House of Chains. While Cotillion is one of my favorite characters, it is Shadowthrone that ranks up there in the top for me ( with Hood, Tavore, Picker and Kruppe... don't ask me to assign numbers to those 5 😂). How does it feel to be the leader of these people you honestly love, but your decisions to reach your goal puts them through inevitable suffering? But your goal is why they follow you... so how could you choose otherwise? How do you change the world without power? But then, what if getting that power leads to personal loss? "Acceptable levels of mysery and suffering... who said ANY level is *acceptable* ? What kind of mind *thinks* like that?" ( I won't comment on Crockus because my reading of him was extremely dismissive and uncharitable... maybe on a reread I'll appreciate him more, who knows)

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

The description of the Family is really interesting. With the organised crime element there is a suggestion of a Mafia-like closeness, but also the positive complex relationships that an actual family / found family has. There are very few characters in the series that don't have a surprising level or two.

Whelp that decides it I need you to do a close reading of the entire series now.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Cal, I am genuinely curious, is this not what everyone sees when they read this?

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Plus, Christine Vallestad is already doing that... so there is no need for me to do that.

@ReallyGoodandKind

3 жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon probably not. Not everyone has PhD is words. :P

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

The PhD is just so I can say, 'Trust me, I'm a doctor.'

@Paul_van_Doleweerd

3 жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon I needed Icarium to say that to Mappo *just once* to confirm a whole host of suspicions, but nuthin'...

Well read, A.P. I also get the sense with Cutter of a sort of impatience with grief. He hasn't lived that long, so the experience of looking back in mourning is still alien to him, making him insensitive. I reread the scenes, and you cover what remains unsaid and is implied very well. Erikson, of course, gives us pointers. He likes describing gestures and expressions. There is a theatricality to his writing (in the best and most literal sense).

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Johan, it is good to know that I am not completely insane.

@JohanHerrenberg

3 жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon Not completely, no, but those things are always difficult to quantify.

Great video as always A.P! Loved the analysis of Cotillion in particular and it's really gotten me frothing for a full length video of your thoughts on the character. I've always found his moral conundrums frustrating, but you rightly point out that this adds a layer of complexity to his character. I think it was his actions in later books that angered me the most, especially The Bonehunters. Him doing it is one thing, but then burying his face in his hands like he was a humanitarian, I found that so hypocritical and irritating. It's like he wants to have the luxury of being the God of Assassins, but unlike his partner, he still doesn't get what a God is. Thanks for posting such an awesome video.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Then again, he is a new god... He is still learning the 'ropes'. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

I watched your video, Ruthan Badd. Absolutely fantastic. I really loved it.

We rarely see into the minds of Cotillion or Kellanved, but they are essentially ascended versions of Kalam and Quick Ben. Kalam may be an assassin, but he's more often the arbiter of justice in a very harsh world. His internal battle is between compassion and ruthless pragmatism. Erikson's characters rarely waste dialogue - it either fleshes out the circumstances for the reader, or has a payoff much later. One-dimensional characters certainly abound, as do one-dimensional people in RL, but Malazan is about growth. Sometimes, it's a 'simple' soldier or civilian who reminds immortals of what is really important.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching and for the comment. I really enjoy Erikson's way of exploring character in the series. Not everything is neat and tidy and spelled out to us. So I find it more engaging.

I only just luckily enough stumbled upon this channel while looking for analyses of Malazan, because it can be quite a lot to take in. I’m two thirds into Reaper’s Gale right now and I’m happy there’s a lot of your videos to watch up until that point. The spoiler discussions with Philip and others are such a joy, but seeing this one especially made me want to point out to you how much I appreciate (and am impressed by) the fact that you can do a half hour video without any quick cuts (that I’m aware of). It’s something that can really take me out of a video if it happens and makes a very enjoyable viewing and listening experience; it speaks volumes about your speaking skills as well as your knowledge of literature analysis and I can’t wait to see and hear more takes on the series from your other videos on as I continue reading on.

The best thing about 'show, don't tell' is that it leaves room for interpretation, and engages you with the characters and text. Cotillion usually comes across as the more sympathetic one, in all of his interactions. Here it's the same, both with Cutter and Shadowthrone. What's more, Cotillion seems to bring out sympathy from the people he interacts with. Cutter is focused on his own pain and limitations as he carries a loved one, yet berates himself for being unkind to Cotillion. Shortly after he is shouting he isn't like Cotillion though - to me a sign of the still immature teen selfishly thinking his own choices to be special. Also, it was specified there were 30 steps between them - 30 being a number with some significance when looking at followers and betrayal. We don't get Shadowthrone's pov, but with him there's always this sense of an act being played, some form of manipulation pursued. There does seem to be a deep bond between him and Cotillion, and even if it's just an act the way Shadowthrone behaves around Cotillion speaks volumes about Cotillion at the very least.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Rob, I hadn't thought of the 30 pieces of silver angle, and while interesting I can't see it fitting with the other aspects explored. But it is an interesting thought. I will have to think about it a bit more to see if I can make it 'fit' in my head at least. But Cutter struggling with his adolescence / maturity fits seamlessly. Thanks for watching and commenting.

@robpaul7544

3 жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon Hi AP 😊 Isn't that just the point about showing instead of telling? Leaving room for interpretation ? It might have been unintentional, specifically 30 paces. But for me it rang a bell. The elements that echo that thought, to me, were the relationships between followers and leaders/gods - both Cutter and Hawl following Cotillion - and the sense of betrayal and denouncement in both. Cutter even ends the scene by crying, almost, three times 'it's not the same '. I could be way off the mark, probably am most of the time - but thinking about this stuff, finding your own meanings, and then comparing it with others is so much fun 😄

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

@@robpaul7544 hi Rob, I wasn't disagreeing, I was just saying that I was intrigued, didn't see it fitting right away, and wanted to think about it because it was an intriguing connection that I hadn't considered. I totally agree with your point that there is lots of room for individual interpretation.

@robpaul7544

3 жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon Didn't think you were disagreeing - even if you were that'd be fine 😉 Apologies if I came across as antagonistic 🙏 Merely wanted to explain my reasoning, knowing there is a difference between individual interpretation and professional literary analysis.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

@@robpaul7544 Hi Rob, no worries, I didn't want you to think I was dismissing your idea. I know that sometimes I can come across as curt when I try to type out responses on my phone because I hate typing on a phone. Personal interpretations backed up by text are the absolute cornerstone of literary analysis, and yours was really intriguing and something that I hadn't considered. Thank you for sharing it. I really appreciate it.

I was about to say that Cotillion is one of the most interesting character in these books, but there are so many interesting Malazan characters that it becomes difficult to decide which are actually the most interesting. I'll stick to the safe side and just say that he's a very interesting character. Honestly, I'm still not sure I fully understand Cotillion's and Shadowthrone's motivations throughout the series. Your analysis helps, though! :)

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think that Shadowthrone understands Shadowthrone's motivations 😂 But I am glad that my ramblings on the subject are of interest. Thanks for stopping by.

I really loved how much of Cotillion we got to see in HoC. I think I'll go back and reread this chapter/scene because it was such a great one!

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

It is a fascinating scene, so quiet and seemingly innocuous, but it has so much meaning and character work in it.

You're making me miss being in school! What a great video, and thanks for the analysis.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Miss being in school??? I completely overshot then. I was aiming for, 'tolerate listening to this'. i am glad that you enjoyed it, thanks for watching.

Thank you for the wonderful insight, A.P. I can say from experience that some of the things you bring up are easy to miss the first time reading through the series. Especially if you are accustomed to being a much more passive reader who’s focusing on the plot. That’s not to say the text is too dense. Erikson writes in such a beautiful way that a good portion seeps into the subconscious. Which leads to a lot of “Huh” moments later on when thinking about the book(s). Thanks for highlighting a lot of the smaller scenes in the series. I would argue the series’ strengths shine more in them than the huge scale events. Until the next one, Cheers.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching and the thoughtful comment. It is sometimes a bit difficult to step outside what I spent years training to do, and because reading in this way is second nature I never know if what I am discussing is obvious or if it is useful to discuss. But I absolutely agree that some of these smaller scenes are so impactful and yet underdiscussed.

@a.fleming4211

3 жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon If this video is you talking about what's obvious, then I would love to see what you feel is obscure. I can guarantee at least 1 view on that video. 5 if I don't understand what you're going on about.

Love this. Just commenting for the algorithm. Keep it up. :)

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Graeme. I appreciate it.

Fantastic breakdown. Are you planning on making more of these in-depth readings for House of Chains? If so, may I suggest(keeping it vague to not give away spoilers) the scene concerning two sisters meeting.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Uhm, is this the scene that Philip and I discussed in the Spoiler Chat video?

@uhm3487

3 жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon Indeed! The way Erikson chose to handle that scene I found very interesting. Subverting the expectation of a big confrontation / showdown in favor of something intimate & poignant, where we the reader cannot look away, we are forced to experience the tragedy right from the eyes of you-know-who.

Excellent insights and observations again AP much appreciated, keep'em coming thick and fast please. I'd say I'd enjoy your lectures as I feel like I'm in one when listening to your analyses vid's..is there a course on the Malazan Universe literature ? anyway the algorithm gods are sated, looking forward to your next instalment.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

You might be the only one that ever enjoyed my lectures... most of my students used them to engage in 'deep meditation' or 'sleeping' as it is known to other people. :)

Another wonderfully insightful video. I'm learning a lot! Slightly off topic question. For someone who is trying to get better at writing what are some sources that you would recommend to clean up style, prose, grammar, and punctuation? I write in English but it's not my native language so trying I'm trying to consciously get better at it. For example, I frequently consult The Elements of Style by W. Strunk and E.B. White. All tips are welcome :)

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Hi, I am glad that you are enjoying the videos. Unfortunately the technical aspects of writing were never my field, so beyond Strunk and White I wouldn't know what to recommend. Sorry. Typically when I encounter a new subject I want to start researching I look for a few university courses from multiple universities that teach that subject to see which books they recommend as a starting point. Then those books usually reference additional sources and materials. So you can very quickly see which books are commonly held in high regard, and which are good for specific aspects. Sorry that I can't be more help.

@overnightgrowth

3 жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon No worries, I'll do some browsing on courses online ;) Thanks for the reply.

Not to jump into your head, but did Bill Munny from the Unforgiven come to mind in the Cotillion scene? Regarding the friendship aspect, I also inferred loyalty. They are recently ascended so knew quite a few of their followers, despite them not really knowing who they might have been following, as mortals. The relationship between gods and their followers is much more personal and intimate. He is one of the more enigmatic characters which might be why I liked the Ascendancy trilogy so much.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, that loyalty angle, the closeness, is one aspect that also appears supported. Thanks Eric. I honestly can't remember Unforgiven. I am sure that I have seen it, but I have no recollection of the film.

@EricMcLuen

3 жыл бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon Gasp! Clint Eastwood, Richard Harris, Gene Hackman, Morgan Freeman. His character is almost the reverse of Cotillion in that he has a checkered past, tried to become a better man for his dead wife then goes completely postal. He tries to regain his humanity but just gets pushed to far when those he cares about get hurt.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

@@EricMcLuen I watched a lot of Westerns back in the day, mainly to teach genre, but it was never my favourite genre. Soooooo they all end up blended into one in my head. I am sure that if I rewatched it now that I would have a different appreciation of it.

A.P., would you mind starting a Malazan University? Really need that bachelors, masters and PHD degree in Malazan studies :) thanks so much these deep analysis videos are great and make me want to read everything again, enjoy them a lot.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Jay. That is very kind of you to say. I love literature, I love stories, and I love talking to people about the books that I appreciate.

@ACriticalDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Always great to see you.