Thank you. I've been hearing a lot about realism in books and how that's what people want. I don't look for that.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

Cookie Cutter Criticism and Bumper Sticker Writing Rules are easy to package and sell, but they do readers and writers a disservice by being overly reductive and overly narrow in their construction and implementation. They are fine as a starting point, but we need to recognize that they are just a starting point, not definitive end points. I am disturbed by the numbers of readers, writers, and editors who take them as laws carved in stone.

It always felt to me like they came up with their 'poignant message' for each episode as their starting point and then wrote the rest to fit the narrative of that message, massively to the detriment of virtually everything else.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

Being theme or 'message' inspired for initial impetus is generally not an issue for lots of shows. My issue is when the implementation overrides other aspects of narrative.

To your point, how easy would it have been to switch up the "take its body" scene to be a quick 60 second thing with the family where they announce the synthetic's murder and ask permission to look into his drive so they can catch the killer? Or hell TNG/DS9 might make the entire episode less about the mystery and more a reason to pivot around the ethics of essentially violating a body for justice.

So intentional bad writing isn’t bad writing. Got it. 😜 I’m with you on Discovery - whatever it’s doing, and whyever, I tapped out early. Setting up a military organisation with rules, orders and discipline, then focussing the whole story on a very speshul chosen one who ignores the nature of the organisation she’s joined every chance she gets, but suffers no consequences for it just… yeah. I can’t.

@ACriticalDragon

28 күн бұрын

I was very disappointed in the series, and I gave it every chance, but their approach just wasn't for me. What they wanted to emphasize was not what I wanted to watch. There were so many episodes in which a couple of tweaks could have accomplished what they wanted without irritating me... but ah well. Not every show is for me.

@MattonBooks

28 күн бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon Yeah mate, you were very forgiving & understanding in this video. I just kept yelling, “LAZY WRITING!” at the screen. 😆

Wonderful video AP!. As a long time Trekkie, I will be candid that, like you, Discovery is my least favourite of the series. That of course, is because of the characterization, because I am a character-based viewer and reader. Discovery did not provide me the bounty of more intimate character moments between two characters & overall dynamic between a cast of characters that I felt the other series managed to accomplish. We didn't see the characters in those 'every day' moments, or the little asides with each other that built up relationships between characters or as a whole in terms of the Discovery 'work-place' I came to adore in say DEEP SPACE NINE or of course NEXT GENERATIONS. Part of it might have been that Discovery was VERY action-heavy, with the characters going from one danger to the next, with less of the quiet moments. In any event, great food for thought you've provided on a part of an iconic franchise. Thank you for this!

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

Weirdly, I think that there are lots of character moments in Discovery, they are just not necessarily connected to the narrative events in a way that is meaningful to me. For instance, Burnham feeling bad for the synth's family, but then also ordering the body to be taken to Discovery for information. There is this conflict between the event and the characterization. Burnham goes out of her way to save the bystanders from the avalanche, but then that raises the questions about why they weren't using the transporters to capture L'ak and Moll, or jump ahead of them. So the character moments are there, but they feel disconnected, as if they were crafted in a vacuum instead of flowing naturally from the scene or sequence.

I was a Trek fan - and a Discovery critic - long before I discovered your channel, and have written short reviews elsewhere of every single episode of the show. My general thoughts are Seasons 1/2 are a frustrating, yet entertaining trash fire, with so much to pick apart due to the multiple shifts in showrunners and "writing by committee" destroying any sense of narrative focus. More recent seasons have been more consistent under Michelle Paradise, but also bland in the same sort of way that I found a lot of Voyager - as if the EP's were scarred by the fan reaction and made the choice to write what they considered to be a "safer" show. Nowhere is this failure more showcased than the clash between the big bold choice to travel forward in time to the 32nd century (to get away from established Trek continuity) only to showcase a completely comprehensible far future world with next-to-no culture shock (a failure of worldbuilding - one of the strongest in the series). To be clear though, this tension isn't a new one for Star Trek. Voyager started its pilot with the conceit that it would both showcase a new dynamic, with half the crew being Maquis, supply issues due to being a lone ship with no Starbase for resupply/refuel, and exploring an unknown quadrant of the galaxy. It ended up TNG 2.0. Enterprise tried to avoid the comfortable by being a prequel, and ended up functionally being identical to TNG for its first two seasons as well, just with some terminology shifted (shields to hull plating, etc.). Showrunners may want to do big, bold things, but the network remains convinced that fans want more of the same (not a problem limited to Trek). I've had many worldbuilding issues across Discovery. As I mentioned, traveling to the 32nd century and finding at most a few centuries of cultural drift is one. Casually dropping in Season 1 that the spore drive can be used both to travel to anywhere in the multiverse and through time, and never following up on it, is another big one. But Star Trek is absolutely lousy with one-off stories which should have major ramifications to the setting - from the Genesis Device to Warp 10 salamanders - which are never addressed again. I think the season arc aspect of the show just makes it seem far stupider, because they can't be memory holed, as they end up integral to the entire season arc. What I find unforgivable about Discovery though is how as a plot-based show it entirely neglects character, essentially wiping the slate clean each season and starting anew. To give a Season 5 example, there's the relationship between Michael and Book. Last season, the two had such an unshakable bond that even with Book siding with the closest thing to a villain in that arc, they never lost trust in one another, and the season ended on something of a "happy ending" regarding their relationship. At the start of Season 5, they sort of drifted away due to a few months of not returning one another's calls. I admit that a relationship on the rocks has more dramatic potential than a happy one. Why didn't they do the legwork of causing them to drift apart due to conflict last season? The only rational answer I can come up with is the EPs were worried about early cancelation, and wanted everything tied up neat with a bow, but that's a sorry excuse for a lack of long-term planning. In this aspect Discovery is so, so far from a return to the long-form style of storytelling I loved on DS9, but thankfully SNW is finally channeling a bit of this. Anyway, enough ranting in a comment on your video. And it's a shame your Discovery analyses never really rose in the algorithm. Long-form intelligent critique of the early seasons was kind of lost in favor of idiotic, often racist/sexist rants, and the inverse videos defending the series.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

The futures travel was the whole premise of Andromeda, back in the day. It had some interesting episodes, but part of the issue with that show was the targeted demographic. It was teen show with Hercules/Xena demographics but had the storyworld of an adult trek show.

@Karl.Zimmerman

2 ай бұрын

​@@ACriticalDragon IIRC Robert Hewitt Wolfe (who cut his teeth as a writer on DS9) left Andromeda mid Season 2 due to arguments with the network over direction, and the show quickly spiraled downward after that. So many modern shows seem to stumble because they try and weld one IP or story to the structure of another, rather than understanding story structure and worldbuilding are intimately linked. Discovery's first season trying to ape Game of Thrones with its interminable Klingon drama is a good example of this.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

I am all for people understanding how narrative structure is an intrinsic part of narrative and not just a separate aspect.

I stopped watching after season 2. Thank you for your service! 😁 . I would recommend you X-Men '97, it is a continuation of the old cartoons of the 90s.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

Episode 5 was brilliant. Really great storytelling on multiple levels. Episode 6 was not quite as impressive. But it is a great series so far.

@Gascon12

2 ай бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon It was indeed!! I didn't want to say anything for spoilers

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

"Remember it!"

Point 2 is the part that gets a little under my skin. In the latest episode it felt like the plot and the details of the world were all exceedingly convienient to the main thrust of the episode. Personal connection help people succeed, a theme became something I felt hit me in the head like a slice of lemon wrapped around a gold brick. It doesn't have to be a bad thing, as ever the execution is what makes the difference.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

That is why I will never be a fan of this particular show. But given the declination in media and narrative literacy I can actually understand why it is so bluntly delivered. I just wish it was a tad more subtle and cohesive. Nice reference to the pan galactic gargleblaster though. 😂

Based on previous Star Trek shows, I'd say it is perfectly reasonable to expect consistent worldbuilding and some psychological realism from a new Star Trek show.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

I agree. But expectations are not the same as requirements. I would greatly prefer if they had done that, but given the consistency with which they are ignoring it, I am not so sure that it is a symptom of 'bad writing ' but more a symptom of 'stylistic choice I don't enjoy. '

So Discover Willful Child? Recently read that as a follow uo to Return to Edan. An analogy to these issues might be from Wrath of Khan where the writers are still thinking of 2d naval battles instead of one in 3d space. Message comes first then wedge story into plot into it. Much like a narrative turduckin. The same could be applied to the Jodi Whitaker Dr Who episodes. Those were such a waste.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

I think one of the potential issues with Wrath of Khan was that the audience was also still thinking that way. The concept of 3-D space battles was still relatively new to a lot of audiences. So writers have to balance the needs of a the diegetic reality and storyworld with audience comprehension.

@EricMcLuen

2 ай бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon And Insurrection, I mean, Rebel Moon 2 didn't get any better.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

@@EricMcLuen Rebel Moon: The Scargiver was a tiny bit better than the first part, but the way I described it was "being kicked in one testicle is slightly better than being kicked in both testicles."

@EricMcLuen

2 ай бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon I missed the backstory of a Deere-ian Jihad against thinking farm machinery.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

@@EricMcLuen How dare you complain about the slow motion wheat farming... Or the coal fusion engines on the spaceship... Or the mechanical controls on the gun when they have space lasers on the other ships... Or the blunt exposition when they realised that the backstories needed to be told to the audience... Or the lack of character interaction and development... Or the computer game-esque waves of attack... Or the efficacy of hand axes against opponents wearing body armour and carrying rifles... Or the wooden and completely flat 'stirring speeches'... Or the overlong repetitive action sequences... Or the blunt, blatant, forcing the plot through at all costs approach... Or the tedious, blunt foreshadowing...

And what powers the "transporters", and how does it know where to go when the wearer doesn't say where to go? Honestly, I thought at first you might be discussing the Federation lie of post scarcity... maybe next time.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

Is it a Federation lie, or is it a foundational flaw in the concept made by the writers' failure of imagination?

@Paul_van_Doleweerd

2 ай бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon I like to think of it as Federation propaganda, there are still plumbers and farmers and other tradespeople, would they work for free? 🤣🤣

Have you watched any Strange New Worlds? It baffles me how Discovery constantly lets me down, yet Strange New Worlds is much more enjoyable.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

I am really enjoying Strange New Worlds. It is much more my type of show.

@Vinnie2501

2 ай бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon I can't quite put my finger on it. Apart from what you mentioned. I think SNW manages to put the moral quandaries within the main cast. And we see repercussions with them. Which to be fair DS9 aside we didn't see much of that in TNG apart from maybe Picard and the Borg. I don't know. I'm on episode six of Discovery. I've fully enjoyed one episode. It's a shame. They had all the money to make something amazing. They seem to have lacked the writing. I think I believe the cast was there to pull it off if the writing was better.

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

Complete fidelity and internal consistency is a lot to ask of any SF show, especially one in an established franchise like Star Trek, but Discovery's attitude of ignoring consistency even within scenes irks me no end.

Why do you do this to yourself? 😂

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

Studying things we dislike or that we consider 'badly done' can give us remarkable insights into our own preferences and biases, as well as into how things function. That, and I might have issues. 😂

@Paul_van_Doleweerd

2 ай бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon It's entertaining to me, I have to admit. 😁 Any thoughts on 3 Body Problem or Fallout shows or have you yet to see them?

@ACriticalDragon

2 ай бұрын

@Paul_van_Doleweerd I have seen Fallout. They used mystery box and maguffin well. Some great episodic stories, and a well integrated season arc. All in all, I thought it was a great season one with plenty of Easter eggs for gamers.

@Paul_van_Doleweerd

2 ай бұрын

@@ACriticalDragon Mrs Mayor and I both enjoyed it, even if she has played none of the games, and I have played all six. The principal actors did great jobs.