Gotta give credit where credit is due. The spitfire is the prettiest prop ever, in my opinion.

@bigballzmcdrawz2921

11 ай бұрын

MK-24 Spitfire = chefs kiss🤌

@ShadeAKAhayate

11 ай бұрын

Yak-3 is much more beautiful IMO.

Dogfighting in the early eras of airplane innovation seemed much more personal, like it was you vs the other pilot rather than tech vs tech.

@GOZR

11 ай бұрын

Excatelly

@Aquascape_Dreaming

11 ай бұрын

It's still very much pilot vs pilot. It's not always the tech so much as how you use the tech. For example, when you're flying BVR in a region where your debrief has indicated that you can expect certain opposition from specific fighters with specific long range weapons, you can plan for that. Growling Sidewinder often does this in his videos, where he has to make a call on whether or not to begin defending posture based on assuming whether or not the enemy has already launched on him. Unlike most flight sims throughout the years, pilots don't automatically know when a missile has been launched on them. Sometimes they won't know if the missile has it's own active radar, and doesn't use it until within a certain range. Choosing to act can make the difference between being splashed, or evading the missile. Do I notch? Do I go cold? Do I maintain altitude and wait for a better firing solution, or do I defend and use the terrain to break any potential missile lock? Pilot skill and tactics are still just as incredibly important as they ever were.

@aerotorc

11 ай бұрын

In a way… but for WWII it was as much engine vs engine as pilot vs pilot (kinda the way it is sensor vs sensor as well as pilot vs pilot now) ​​⁠​​⁠@Aquascape_Dreaming has it right

@thomasjorge4734

11 ай бұрын

Try a Sopwith Camel!

@goldenageofdinosaurs7192

11 ай бұрын

@@thomasjorge4734WWI dogfights is like 2 kites going at it. It’s friggin’ insane!

F16 armament here, the viper was originally designed with the aim9 and aim 7 sparrows, not aim 120. The missile launchers were modernized once aim120 was invented to carry both aim 9 and aim120. I believe putting the amraam on wing tips for standard operations was for aerodynamic performance reasons, possibly reduced wing tip vortices.

@Dutchcomentatah

11 ай бұрын

It also reduces wing flutter!

I recall a long time ago some commentator quipped to Chuck Yeager about how if the US had F16's a WW II Zero would have no chance. Chuck corrected him pretty quickly after thinking about it for a 1/2 second, stating "it would depend on the pilots!" Some Zero's had 20 mm cannons, along with a basic 7.7mm machine gun; a quick turn into a close passing jet would probably be fatal for the jet.

Growling Sidewinder is one of my favorite DCS content creators on KZread! It's cool to see you break down one of his videos!

Imagine if Max trained GS on dogfighting. Combined with GS's DCS skills... what a beast.

The AIM9 is the first ever operational air to air missile, fitted to F-86 Sabers. In Vietnam, the USAF F-4s scored; 32 kills with the AIM9 5 kills with the AIM4 50 kills with the AIM7 5 maneuver kills 15 kills with 20mm not sure what the Navy got. the F-4 was built as a fleet defense interceptor, and it was not standard to equip interceptors with guns at the time. But everything else had guns still, from the F-8, A-4, F-105, to the F-100, etc. When the F-4 was designed, the Navy already had the F-8 and A-4, so it didn't want a multirole fighter that wasn't as good at either role as the dedicated aircraft, so they switched it to being an interceptor.

I love this video! It really puts BFM theory to the test when you have such a large capabilities mismatch, and a Spitfire mopping up (even in guns only) shows that anything has a chance if you fly to your advantages. I really enjoyed seeing your perspective on this one.

@appa609

11 ай бұрын

*if your opponent fucks up badly

@Jason608

11 ай бұрын

@@appa609 Agreed. Opponent got lured into 1-circle in every fight. It also appears the pilots agreed to guns only ahead of time, or else this would have been a matter of the 4th gen fighter blowing through the merge to create separation, going out of guns range and then turning around and sending an AIM-9X or AIM-120 to the Spitfire's face.

@HypoceeYT

11 ай бұрын

​@@Jason608 Yup. It was guns only - GS has gotten better than he was at announcing the rules - and even guns-only, the jet should have won every time. If I link it the comment will be shadowed but vpjPZfIDFHo&t=6m31s is my favorite demo. The Grim Reapers demonstrate an F-35 which is (excellent at its intended missions including modern air superiority but) a poor dogfighter, demolishing a pair of P-51s with impunity. GS' opponents are usually strong - and named on screen. Other comments speculate that they may have agreed for the jet to fly stupidly for better content, but the source video includes the jet pilot starting to adjust toward the right tactic and the opponent isn't named so I dunno about that. He also won four of four rounds in the A-10 vs. the P-51 because that opponent kept going 1-circle, which the Grim Reapers (coincidentally) proved with like ten rounds of the Mustang being completely untouchable and disassembling the A-10 if it went 2-circle. GS has occasionally had fights where he says in surprise that something is an obvious mistake. I think he's got a job to do and sometimes that means rumbling with a rando who doesn't know what he's doing, that's fine too.

Spitfire has more aerial kills than every gen 4-5 fighter combined.

@FlatOutMatt

11 ай бұрын

As does the Brewster Buffalo 🤣

@mill2712

11 ай бұрын

Well spitfires were likely much easier to produce than any 4th/5th gen craft along with the fact there was a world war going on so a lot more changes for a lot more kills.

from what i was remembering the F-16 up to block 30/32 cannot have Amraam on the wingtips only sidewinders, from block50/52 they can have the AIM-120 on the reinforced wingtips.

Liked 10 times as it’s Spitfire! I was lucky to sit in the cockpits of Spitfire MkI N3200 and Hurricane MkIIB BE505 at Duxford a couple months ago.. Hoping to book a seat in a 2 seater Spit.. Just the sight and sound of a Spitfire is…heaven 🫶🏽

2 of my favorite you tubers. I'm so glad you learned about growing sidewinder. Smart young man with an extraordinary understanding of his art. When are we going to see the match up just for fun?

The jet guys should have used boom and zoom tactics since they had the speed and climb advantage. Not sure why they tried to turn with him.

@gian0giorg

11 ай бұрын

I think that was a ground rule, not to go over a certain distance. Otherwise there would be no challenge.

Awesome video, great breakdown and really well produced and very fun and informative to watch. Keep up the great work. God Bless.

Totally enjoyed this! Happy Sunday 🌞

There is a short film called Path of Hate ,that for me is one of the smoothest Dogfights I've ever watched .

If it was RIAT 2017 you were at, just gotta say you guys were epic and it's always a treat when you come over the pond. A very different display to what we're used to in Europe and seeing the teams lined up was awesome!

It's awesome that you seem to always use GS in these videos. He really is one of the premier dcs content producers. 👍🏼

The most beautiful flying machine for me is Spitfire. Its the most elegant, mesmerising & awesome thing to watch in the sky. If I was a pilot I would never leave a chance to get my hands on this beauty ! ❤ as usual loved your analysis

11:30 look how long the spit can hold its nose in the up position and maneuver to aim. What a great plane!`

My town has two spitfires at the aviation museum (pretty rare in Aus) and love them so much… got a great photo of one landing in the background of my Harley 😊

Having a heavier missile on the tip can reduce the stresses on the wing compared to having a lighter missile or no missile for the same aircraft weight.

It is rather amazing to see a Spitfire shoot down all these modern jets! By far the vast majority of Sidewinder missiles turned out to be defective in Vietnam. IIRC, only 11% of them actually hit the target. If I was a fighter pilot back then I'd have been howling about it just like Lynyrd Skynyrd did when they sang "Gimme Back My Bullets"!

Im only thirteen but I have my sights set on the Air Force. My father was in the Air Force as well as a few other family members, still looking at all of the different jobs but I think it would be really cool to fly a fighter. Then again I don’t really think im built for the Air Force or the military. Anyways, point is I like your videos and hopefully they can help me achieve my goals :))

I love how the spitfire is like the grandpa who is 83 but can still kick your ass!

Alright, Max. I challenge you, to go up against some fighters in a P51, or any WWII era fighter you deem worthy. Can you recreate this success? I just think it would make for an entertaining video. That was indeed impressive.

Max is excellent

Nice Thoughts. good channel.

Growling Sidewinder is one hell of a content creator. His videos are like tutorials subliminally lol

HAHAHAHAHAHAH around the 14 min mark, you just had to throw in the Blue Angles jab "theyre slower" hahahahahahah

Anything with GrowlingSidewinder is going to be a good video.

GS made a couple of videos where he owned everyone with the Burro. (I-16) lol.

Thanks!

@MaxAfterburnerusa

5 ай бұрын

Thank you!

They don't allow missiles in these type of fights since the WWII aircraft couldn't carry them. It is a battle of pilot v pilot, guns only.

One thing I’ve noticed is that DCS really needs to update the realism of damage from both missile strikes to 50 cal ammo. One thing DCS should take into consideration is vital vs non vital hits. A shot through the flap or horizontal stab often will do nothing more than increase drag from the jagged hole. This is a great example of always fight to your strengths.

GS is the best out there. Everything he does has a purpose. He always so chill and never a sore loser.

Guns guns guns. (...well guns is the only thing there is)

You remind me of a Fighter Pilot Jim Carrie!

I-16 vs everything was even more nuts. Or Mustang vs F-22.

You should do some videos with CW Lemoine

Fun vid, thanks :) I would lure spitfire vertically and then in the right moment just turn downwards and shoot him (hopefully) when he'd be stalling without energy but this probably wouldn't work on that experienced guy called GlowingSidewinder :) (i like his vids). Anyway turning like this in a jet close to spitfire is suicide, better keep speed and be patient :) That was probably for fun and i suppose an agreement to be more aggressive :)

Knew this was GS just from the title.

in former Yugoslavia, in 80is , Yugoslav pilot lerns how to fight whit Super Galeb G-4 advenced trainer against in that time mighty MIG 23.

I've often wondered about the AMRAAM, it is not centred on the outer pylon and wobbles like crazy. The leverage from the seeker head to the end of the pylon must cause some wear on the whole wing?

@Jason608

11 ай бұрын

Counterintuitively, having a heavy weight on the F-16's wingtip reduces wing flutter. You generally will only see AMRAAM, not AIM-9X on the wingtip of USA operated F-16 fighters.

@liamh9814

11 ай бұрын

@@Jason608 It’s not so much the weight, it is the position on the wing tip, it’s so far forward. Perhaps that’s to account for the booster?

And yet the Spit V got absolutely manhandled by disciplined FW 190 pilots, despite being able to turn better.

@alargecookie

11 ай бұрын

Exactly, the FW-190 was a boom and zoomer with absurd firepower in it's time, it couldn't turn with the Spitfire so the good pilots wouldn't even try.

@anaugle2484

11 ай бұрын

This is a IX lmfao.

If you're flying a modern fighter jet a guy with a machine gun on a toyota pickup truck will take you down if get within range of them. It's a serious concern. A spitfire with 8 machine guns, or 4 and 2 20mm cannons is a very serious concern. The question would be why did I put myself within the range of that thing.

Why are the jets getting into any kind of circular fight with a prop fighter? A biplane could probably humiliate the Spitfire if the Spit pilot was dumb enough to let him get close while slow 🤔

Would a Fox 2 be effective against these old warbirds? Given that the engine is at the front, as is the hot exhaust.

Yes! It's an art. Then the Polikarpov I-16 messes everything up.

I miss your moustache 🧔. Your videos are really awesome, highly appreciated. Thank's a lot for your hard work ! All the best for you, your life and your family.

IRL, wouldnt the modern jet just turn and run, and then radar lock em, and sneak up behind the spitfire? Or just do a series of high speed passes that the spitfire cannot pursue?

@ShadeAKAhayate

11 ай бұрын

That's exactly the ways to defeat aircraft like this. If area-limited, one can also go high and force such an opponent into totally defensive fight where he will make a mistake sooner or later. But these also require a lot of skill to implement.

@andrew6978

11 ай бұрын

Yes obviously, but it wouldn't make for a great video if it just blasted it from BVR.

@arkie87

11 ай бұрын

@@andrew6978 i dont think you understood what I wrote. I wasnt suggesting missiles.

@ShadeAKAhayate

11 ай бұрын

@@andrew6978 Locking them up is not equal to using missile. But gunning them down from 1.5km is more likely with a radar lock, especially in top-down plane.

@andrew6978

11 ай бұрын

@@ShadeAKAhayate Even still, kind of defeating the point of this exercise.

Ok, now do a Spitfire against a US naval ship with only operating guns. The USS America LHA 6 with only guns operating. The CIWS Gatling Gun & Mk-38 Chain Gun. Up for the challenge?

Hey Ryan, why put the Amram on the wing tips and not an AIM 9x? To a laymen like me it seems like the fox 2 would be less weight and therefore less stress 🤷🏼

@MaxAfterburnerusa

21 сағат бұрын

That is a valid configuration! I think they just wanted to make sure the wing tips could handle an AIM-120

@RobbyQuarantined

16 сағат бұрын

@@MaxAfterburnerusa ah got it, makes sense, thanks man!

Honestly killing jets in a spit fire is super easy if the pilot plays by your rules and tries to turn with you like in this video, but if the pilot is just a bit smart, he will never turn with you, but use his incredible power advantage and/or boom and zoom beyond anything you can do I have kill every jet in DCS dogfighters 2 server whut the spit, but being honest, it was only those that wanted to turn with me, smart pilots just leave me in the dust, dissapear behind clouds, use their superior power and electronics, never play horizontals, etc.

hey i want to be a navy pilot, to get a college degree i thought i would go to college while serving in the army. Is it realistic to study while working in the military?

@crazypetec-130fe7

11 ай бұрын

Yes, lots of people do that. Google CW Lemoine, Make Them Tell You Know for good advice on how to work that.

You should watch the i-16 ep lol

I feel so little and insignificant commenting to you such is my respect for you - but just to let you know YT has not been showing me your stuff for some time now :( Who of us doesn't love the Spitty? As an artist/designer in the aviation industry I have never thought of guns in a dogfight as 'painting the sky' like an artist, it belies the deadly realities of the conflict and fatal outcomes but describes the engagement very poetically in a way that only a true fighter at heart can. Would losing an aileron in flight not be reasonably insignificant given tailerons of most jets? How much roll is by aileron at speed vs taileron?

I don't understand why no one in Growling's prop vs jet videos uses their thrust, instead they try to turn fight a prop.

I've always loved the bit with the Hornet at 7:17, popping decoys as if the Spitfire was about to release a fox two.

Great Video, wasn't impressed ( as it looked like) shooting down a THUNDERBIRD specially being an EX TB

If I was a fighter pilot in a modern jet and I was beat by someone in an old warbird I'd be pretty embarrassed. Modern fighter planes are meant to be better than relics.

@Ananamitron

9 ай бұрын

His opponents were really bad. A jet should climb climb climb climb well above the Spit, then dive and fire. Do that and he'd have no chance of shooting you down. Instead these smoothbrains kept trying to turn fight a piston.

@williambuchanan77

9 ай бұрын

@@Ananamitron and piston planes were specifically designed to be really agile in the air, I hear they're also really fun to fly. I have a feeling they could be useful on the modern battlefield for cheap ground support, if they had a stealth paint job. By the time the enemy see them coming it would be too late.

What's next? Wright Flyer against everything?

@liamh9814

11 ай бұрын

I think you're missing the point. Warbirds have advantages over modern jets, in certain limited, circumstances.

@jangelelcangry

11 ай бұрын

@@liamh9814 I know that WWII prop fighters are very agile. I was just joking.

@liamh9814

11 ай бұрын

@@jangelelcangry Agreed. The Wright Flyer was the first interceptor I suppose - straight lines only. :)

@joshsafar5556

11 ай бұрын

GS: “Again, I’m not saying the wright brothers first airplane is the best interceptor, but if you play your planes strengths against your opponent-yep right there…splash SR-71”

GS is the shit.

Flaming debris never reversed on anyone. = )

These were AI opponents, I assume? They could and should have just perched above the Spit and used energy fighting techniques to take him out in almost 100% safety, but it looks like they were following routines to avoid a missile shot that wasn’t ever coming.

@HypoceeYT

11 ай бұрын

Nah, human, I think he just lined up a shoot with a beginner who wanted to mess around with different jets and didn't know about counter-piston tactics. GS' opponents are usually strong - and named on screen. Other comments speculate that they may have agreed for the jet to fly stupidly for better content, but the source video includes the jet pilot starting to adjust toward the right tactic and the opponent isn't named so I dunno about that. It's common in DCS for people to flare against guns on their six as essentially a joke.

@FlatOutMatt

11 ай бұрын

@@HypoceeYT thanks! Yeah I was surprised that they wouldn’t just fly the jet like a FW190 on steroids…abuse the high dive speed and roll rate to just pounce on him repeatedly and zoom back up 😅

😶 sitting here patiently waiting for someone to say "Guns on a modern Fighter are not needed" just so the real Fighter Pilot can explain why they are a idiot.

@Ananamitron

9 ай бұрын

They needed guns in Vietnam, but not anymore. The NGAD is being designed with no guns. It may have a directed energy weapon though, but mainly to shoot down incoming missiles. The Aim-9x almost never misses and it's a somewhat old missile.

would a fox 2 even seek out a propeller driven plane like a Spitfire? Does it produce enough heat for it to seek out?

@ShadeAKAhayate

11 ай бұрын

Of course it does. The range would be a bit limited, but WW2-era airplane is quite hot compared to everything else.

@andrew6978

11 ай бұрын

The exhaust would be hot, yes.

@ShadeAKAhayate

11 ай бұрын

@@andrew6978 Not only the exhaust. The whole frontal part will glow in IR.

Where's the F22?

I have a narcissistic parent that broke my VR HMD and my glasses. So DCS is unplayable again because I can't fly on the 2d screen. Tail scraping like a mother.

Give it back to the taxpayers 😂

I hate to beak it to you man, but the F-16 was built 20 years before the AIM-120 so that was not a design consideration for the F-16 and until Desert Storm AIM-9Ms were carried on the wingtips and today when doing the SEAD mission AIM-9s are carried on the wingtips for self-defense because they are lighter.

There's no way I'm first

@xDerHunterHeli

11 ай бұрын

Hey you're right 🤣🥺

@vampiro4236

11 ай бұрын

@@xDerHunterHeli That's as rare as the steaks I cook :P

@xDerHunterHeli

11 ай бұрын

@@vampiro4236 yea thats prob true bro

Why would the US Government get rid of the A10 if he can turn in such a tight radius.

@TerraZetzz

11 ай бұрын

Great for insurgents. Useless against a conventional military with decent air defenses.

@Taczy2023

11 ай бұрын

@@TerraZetzz Ehh, you could always eliminate those air defenses with the F-35 before you send in the A-10s. Think its more about financial reasons.

@ShadeAKAhayate

11 ай бұрын

@@Taczy2023 That remains to be (hopefully, never) seen. Also, see Ukrainian scenario where everything is packed with MANPADs to the brim -- anything flying is flying very low and usually at standoff. A-10 loses most of its advantages in such scenario and becomes more vulnerable due to its lower speed. So A-10 is more akin to a glorified assault helicopter with loiter capability.

@andrew6978

11 ай бұрын

@@Taczy2023 You can't eliminate manpads with an F-35....

@Taczy2023

11 ай бұрын

@@andrew6978 Well obviously not, but Manpads are close range air defenses. Not as dangerous as more advanced Mobile SAMS...

This is ridiculous

@chuckh4077

11 ай бұрын

Says you

@Stucknthe80z

11 ай бұрын

@@chuckh4077 captain obvious

dude no offence but i don't think anybody want's to see you so much...

Dear Max Afterburner, We are currently developing flight simulation peripherals specifically designed for F-15E enthusiasts, and we believe that our products align perfectly with your expertise as a former F-15E retired pilot. We have been following your KZread channel closely and admire the passion and knowledge you share regarding aviation. Given your experience in flying this remarkable aircraft, we thought it would be fantastic to explore potential collaboration opportunities with you. Could you please give us your email address so we could discuss further details about possible collaboration options if you are interested. Best regards, WINWING