Incredibly, of all the extreme things Xenophon lives through and did, his ability to read and write ended up being his most enduring legacy. As badass as the retreat through Anatolia was, it still boggles my mind that he got a Spartan King to open up to him, enough to be the main source on what we know about ancient Sparta today. The man was truly irriplaceable.

The Historian Xenophon, author of this account, was an extremely interesting character. He was born an Athenian citizen, yet he fought for Persia as a mercenary (as part of “The Ten Thousand”), and later for Sparta (as a cavalryman). He was a staunch admirer of Sparta and its culture, and seems not to have thought highly of Athenian society or Athenian democracy.

@homelessdude8080

4 жыл бұрын

He fought against Persia.

@histguy101

4 жыл бұрын

@@homelessdude8080 Xenophon fought with 10,000 Greek mercenaries for the Persians ...against other Persians(civil war). The side that hired them lost, leaving the 10,000 Greek mercenaries deep in Persian territory. Here Xenophon was placed in command, and led his men to retreat to the black sea, where he did indeed fight the Persians, as well as other Persian allies while they attempted to flee.

@ohioagainsttheworld676

4 жыл бұрын

@@homelessdude8080 he fought for the Persians, check out his book "Anabasis." it's the story of the Greek mercenary army's trip home after the war. its actually pretty badass.

@homelessdude8080

4 жыл бұрын

​@@ohioagainsttheworld676 yeah im incorrect. I don't know why I wrote this. Although technically Im still right since he did fight AGAINST Persia. And the person he worked for wasnt representing Persia as an empire at the time.

@ohioagainsttheworld676

4 жыл бұрын

@@homelessdude8080 yeah, civil war. that book explains a lot of complicated shit, it's kinda like an Odyssey on land heh it's pretty cool read it twice now it's an interesting read

I forgot where I hear this but there was a story of Spartans cooking for a guest and once the guest eat the food. He said it was SO bad. No wonder Spartans don't fear death.

@JustAManFromThePast

4 жыл бұрын

The Spartan men subsisted on what was called "black soup", a mixture of vinegar, blood, salt, and pig leg, which the older men were said to enjoy over meat, shunning the latter. According to legend, a man from Sybaris, a city in southern Italy infamous for its luxury and gluttony (which gave rise to the word sybarite), after tasting the Spartans' black soup remarked with disgust, "Now I know why the Spartans do not fear death". In another story, it is said that Dionysius, the tyrant of Syracuse, bought a slave who had been a Spartan cook and ordered him to prepare the broth for him, sparing no expense. When the king tasted it, he spat it out in disgust, whereupon the cook said, "Your Majesty, it is necessary to have exercised in the Spartan manner, and to have bathed in the Eurotas, in order to relish this broth."

@evenbet9603

4 жыл бұрын

Aurora Arrow Kinda like the English I presume.

@evenbet9603

4 жыл бұрын

The Mexican dish of pozole is made from boiled beef neck and pigs feet, homily optional, topped with fresh diced onions, chopped cabbage and sliced radishes. To the distaste of the Spartans it’s quite delicious!

@ragimundvonwallat8961

4 жыл бұрын

@@evenbet9603 spartan were known for discipline and iron men in misery and battle as mexican are known to lay down in the sun to sleep half the day

@evenbet9603

4 жыл бұрын

Ragimund VonWallat I prefer the shade myself.

"Man and boy live together like married people" Uh oh

@ProjectEkerTest33

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah don't think they had social services in those days

@MitchJohnson0110

4 жыл бұрын

Ancient Greeks had no concept of gay or straight, only submissive and dominant.

@jjs8426

4 жыл бұрын

@@MitchJohnson0110 nah, my boy Herodotus be looking at that thinking "that's gay af"

@MitchJohnson0110

4 жыл бұрын

@@jjs8426 "Testiclese I'm not sure if it's supposed to go in there

@jimmyking92

4 жыл бұрын

@@MitchJohnson0110 They had. It was considered immoral for a man to act or dress like a woman, that's why the word 'kinaidos' existed. Solon had placed law's against men having homophilic relationships. The reason why many believe homosexuality was so common in Ancient Greece is Plato's 'Symposium', which mentions that there were cases were a young man may had sexual relationships with his mentor. There were cases of homosexuality, mainly pederasty, but it was not the norm.

That thing about bare feet is actually completely true

@kapsi

4 жыл бұрын

Running barefoot would be a good way to get an infection and die, since there's no medicine.

@negativezero8174

4 жыл бұрын

@@kapsi Good, those that die of infection are too weak for Sparta

@DATA-qt3nb

4 жыл бұрын

@@kapsi negative is right by Spartan logic, and I'm sure they would argue it makes their feet calloused and tough which is true aswell.

@Bakumatsu1

4 жыл бұрын

@@DATA-qt3nb I dunno he seemed pretty practical. Healthy diet, no rape, I feel like maybe sandals just sucked back then? Nowadays it'd be silly cause we have infinitely better shoes. Like have you ever walked in a pair of wet sandals? It's terrible, they get all loose. Plus kids burn thru shoes like crazy while they grow so was probably just easier not to have to deal with it ahha

@jsgwam

4 жыл бұрын

@野生狼 wait, you wear them non stop?

Xenophon, the only historian who wrote about Sparta who actually lived with them: "Spartans weren't gay p-iles. They viewed it as an abomination." These F-ing comments: "I HEARD GAY, SPARTANS WERE GAY FOR BOYS CONFIRMED!!!"

I love Spartan history so much that I built my channel’s theme around Sparta! Thank you for this terrific content!

@trottingfox.

4 жыл бұрын

shameless plug.

@baggelis_aikaterinis

4 жыл бұрын

History Explained waiting for the next one .

@chriswhite4640

4 жыл бұрын

Just saw your channel and there is 1 video 6mins long relating to ancient egypt,you sir I say are I liar and a brigand a shameless scruff of a man

@lconakl2404

4 жыл бұрын

Yet your video is about Egyptian LMAO

@danielj233

4 жыл бұрын

Spartans got smashed by Alexander the greats army.

The chad spartan boy steals food to endure the pain of punishment.

@chaosdweller

4 жыл бұрын

Oh dear

@dustinparker3573

4 жыл бұрын

And to share to his adult male lover/care taker.

@soapmaker2263

2 жыл бұрын

@@dustinparker3573 you need to listen to the video again. How did you get that backwards?

Athenians: Austerity and Stoicism Spartans: Hold my wine

@comanchedase

4 жыл бұрын

me: im tired of this easy jojr

@disrespectthemwomensubjuga5471

4 жыл бұрын

*olive oil

@kvarnerinfoTV

4 жыл бұрын

Thebans....oh 3 times more Spartans...dont worry we will go right trough their lines, slaughter them and force them to flee like pussies.

@zhbvenkhoReload

4 жыл бұрын

Athenians did not practice Stoicism in that era

@SlayerRiley

3 жыл бұрын

Interestingly, consumption of alcohol was heavily discouraged in Spartan society. Indulgence in any intoxicating substance was considered weakness. Slaves were regularly forced to drink until drunk, then beaten and ridiculed in front of children, to teach them on the dangers of alcohol.

There really is nothing quite like an original source. (Or as close to one as possible) Thanks for doing these readings. Great work.

Omg I've been waiting for another! Thanks

THIS IS PAAATRA...a city north of Sparta.

@primusinterpares5767

4 жыл бұрын

Its part-a Sparta

@orestiskal4827

4 жыл бұрын

Καλό αστείο

@kutzewalters5530

4 жыл бұрын

*tumbleweed*

@morgueblack

4 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

@cryohellinc

4 жыл бұрын

😂

Fantastic. Thanks for your hard work.

I just wrote a 25-page paper about Spartan education. Nice.

@rohitrai6187

3 жыл бұрын

good man

Well, that got weird at the end.

@turkeysandwich1998

4 жыл бұрын

@Deus Volk 6:09, I think u mis heard that part, sparta wasnt down with that lol

@leperiv4378

4 жыл бұрын

@Deus Volk yeah they thought it was abomination

@TheAlmightiest

4 жыл бұрын

@@turkeysandwich1998 Actually it was pretty common in sparta. Sparta was one of the cities were relations between men & boys was most common in all of ancient greece, look it up.

@TheAlmightiest

4 жыл бұрын

@Deus Volk How come you are pro-gay right while using as username that says "deus volk", A mix of German & latin which means "the people of Jesus"??

@ramacass108

4 жыл бұрын

It’s not that it was gay, that made it weird. It was men and BOYS. And it seems people were ok with it. But I guess people started early back then.

These bits are very nicely done. The slight dramatic edge to the narration errs on the safe side, perfect. Imagery is good. Music is great too, so much so, it almost goes unnoticed. Cheers.

@csgrinds

4 жыл бұрын

I sound like I'm damning you with faint praise...this channel is superb.

@VoicesofthePast

4 жыл бұрын

Hahah glad you enjoyed it

More of Sparta !

This is Sparta!!!

@tomurg

4 жыл бұрын

No! This is Patrick!

@dannyalex5866

4 жыл бұрын

@@tomurg No! This is Bob!

Amnesty International wouldn’t approve 😆

"Athenias, Those philosophers and boy lovers" - King Leonidas

@RYROSmetaldefender

4 жыл бұрын

@Red pill it says that the boetians and other one had these customs

@cheesehattom

3 жыл бұрын

@@RYROSmetaldefender The Spartans too.

@antinoofromgreece6560

3 жыл бұрын

'Lovers' it doesn't means that they had sex between them. The ancient Greek language is complex.

@lamalien2276

3 жыл бұрын

I think you missed the point, the Spartans didn't like it done to their boys trained under the Lycurgian method, but it was common in regions they ruled.

@ManiacMayhem7256

2 жыл бұрын

Always found that funny coming from him. Don't the Athenians accuse the Spartans of the same thing in the sequel?

i love this make the videos longer

Correctly deciphering historical accounts is immensely difficult . First there is the correct translation . Then there is the correct connotation of the words translated . The exact meaning for them people at that time . Currently a person might state that they love : their parents or their lover or their pet or a favorite meal ... , all with a slightly different meaning for the word love , depending on the context . Then remember that historically it was common for people of different cultures to insult each other . ( Oh , them ***** are a bunch of ***** ! )

am i the only one who's got surprised how fast it goes wrong?

Nice preview! Im currently reading the Hellenica. Respectfully...

I have to do a presentation on Graeco-Roman views towards war. In which of Xenophon's writings is this taken from?

@artygunnar

3 жыл бұрын

I found it, for those wondering, Constitution of the Spartans

The Spartans weren’t pedos. This was shocking to the rest of the Greeks, lol. They couldn’t believe it. They were so used to it everywhere. Jesus....

@thefebi8457

4 жыл бұрын

Don't apply our morality standards of today to a very different society, not better, not worse, just different, the were used to and romans too, other metality right.

@yayayaokoksure

3 жыл бұрын

@@thefebi8457 nah fucking kids is always wrong.

@Kurtlane

3 жыл бұрын

There were lots of different Greeks. As Xenophon describes here.

@DrWongburger

3 жыл бұрын

You are so swayed by foolish ideals of cultural relativism that you won't even call out pederasty of catamites for what it is, a damn shame. Say what you will about Christianity, even with the many faults of the church, at least they worked to civilize the 'civilized' world.

@violentmenace

3 жыл бұрын

@@DrWongburger Ah yes, the church has never had an issue with boy pussy. That much is true, don't look up okay.

Spookylicious voice...

Wow nice

Which book is this from please?

"The good old days"..

"Discipline" Very important for young Spartans. Second only to honor.

@MrCreamcracker15

4 жыл бұрын

If you believe honour includes the murdering of slaves, thankfully the Thebians put the Spartans in their place

No wonder that if you survived the training, you would have been a superior soldier.

@kpimkpim349

4 жыл бұрын

and regularly lose to other greek city-states.

@wankawanka3053

2 жыл бұрын

@@kpimkpim349 at least they won in a lot of Olympic games

Could you read about the about “kelterne”

I grew up doing this in the woods for no reason and it has its pros 2:03 but sandals were adopted not just for the environment but that war could car less about your feet

Can we get some Ottoman/Muslim descriptions of Mediaeval/Early Modern Europe? Or European descriptions of the Ottoman Empire? There's plenty of the latter readily accessible online.

Out there

Chad lives in a society

@kevinmacbearach8629

4 жыл бұрын

I would choose ancient Sparta any day over our current greatest ally.

👌

Is it j me or is it weird that the Spartans, focusing on war only, had such a hard time fighting the Athenians who didn’t do that

@digolaverdad7313

4 жыл бұрын

Because they werent as smart.

@bailey7095

4 жыл бұрын

Well they weren't as good as Sparta but were still a formidable force. Check out the battle of marathon. Athenia wiped the floor with Persia in 1 morning.

@Isrieri

4 жыл бұрын

Bit of an oversimplification. Spartans were the best warriors in Greece in a straight fight because of their rigorous training, but also because of how the Greeks fought in warfare at the time. Every battle was fought with the men in a phalanx formation, and the Spartans were brutal because they were highly trained and would never ever break. The Athenians solution to fighting sparta was basically to....not fight them. Not on land anyway. They won the majority of naval engagements because Spartans couldn't put their physical prowess to as much use at sea. Doesn't mean they were necessarily bad sailors - just that the Athenians were better ones.

@Osvath97

4 жыл бұрын

It seems that the Spartans often had a peculiar purist view of warfare, which meant that all though in a straight phalanx fight they were extremely good, they shunned other tactics, as a consequence the Spartans became exploitable. The Spartans even had to beg Athens from help with a Helot revolt that had fortified itself, because Spartans had such a poor grasp of siege warfare. This purism seems to have grown stronger throughout time, at the start the Spartans seemed quite innovative. In later periods the citizens became so few that Spartan phalanxes were mostly composed of non-citizens, with the citizens only being the officers.

@Garium87

4 жыл бұрын

I don't see what's so weird about that. Sparta absolutely dominated on land. They attacked and plundered the surrounding area of Athen, every single year. While the Athenians would hide behind their walls, knowing that they had no chance to win against Sparta on land. They survived for some time because their city was well defended and because they dominated the see.

Let me guess. "Sparta didn't have SAFE SPACES either."

@paradigmarson9586

4 жыл бұрын

TBH "Sparta didn't have it" isn't a great argument against anything unless for some reason you feel a society based on cruelty and warfare to be a good model for the 21st century.

@calebtimes453

4 жыл бұрын

@@paradigmarson9586 not to mention paedophilia

@trienos3040

4 жыл бұрын

This was their safe space. They were frightened of their helot slaves.

@eddiehancockii

4 жыл бұрын

Didn't need them.

@CannabisDreams

4 жыл бұрын

@@calebtimes453 thats a sin of Athens. As Xenophon states the Spartans opposed pedophilia.

I wonder how effective is this training

@benduvall6169

4 жыл бұрын

Do the battles of Marathon & Thermopylae anwser your question?

@godofwarhammer7655

4 жыл бұрын

@@benduvall6169 yep

@royriley6282

4 жыл бұрын

Ask the Persians

@theodosioskantasmd7388

4 жыл бұрын

@@benduvall6169 In the battle of Marathon, it was the Athenians and Plateians who beat the Persians....NOT the Spartans. This is coming also from an Athenian :)

@benduvall6169

4 жыл бұрын

@@theodosioskantasmd7388 Good point, I have forgotten the Spartan's missed the battle & were purportedly in religious festival, not too keen on helping their Athenian rivals, the bad blood manifested in the Peloponnesian Wars.

The difference between the Judeo-Christian ethic and the Spartan ethic cannot be overstated: the former punish their children for the act of stealing, the latter punished their children for getting caught stealing.And yet they agreed that a line must be drawn as to how men and boys behave with each other.

@evenbet9603

4 жыл бұрын

The Action packed snack bleach Not if we remember not to forget.

@arijao92

4 жыл бұрын

No such thing as judeo-christian, those are completely separate ethics

@luxborealis

4 жыл бұрын

Weeeell, the Spartans were just not okay with sleeping with the kids in the agoge. Once they joined the army in their late teens they were expected to be sexually available for the veteran soldiers.

@evenbet9603

4 жыл бұрын

Lux Borealis I stand corrected.

@chancethewrapper3557

3 жыл бұрын

@@evenbet9603you were right the first time. they were not, xenophon also goes over that subject too but he was misquoted often.

at 30 seconds look at the faces of witch looking people on both sides? I actually see two on each side!

the boys

I'm glad to hear that boy fucking was outlawed in sparta, after hearing people make jokes about it for so long I was beginning to get worried.

@TomorrowWeLive

2 жыл бұрын

Um. I've got bad news for you...

Cryptoi?

You can tell its not a modern work of nonfiction because it ends with 'judge for yourself'

@flashmanfred

4 жыл бұрын

You have obviously never ever read actual scholarship because nearly all will end with nuanced, open-ended conclusions. Especially on states like Sparta for which we have very little written evidence for, most of it coming from bias sources like Xenophon, outsiders or writers like Plutarch hundreds of years down the line. Historians are forever deepening the conversation about ancient history and they don't claim to have all the answers.

@histguy101

4 жыл бұрын

@@flashmanfred Why is Xenophon "Bias," or rather, why is his bias(everyone has a bias) worth mentioning here? Is he not the writer that lived in Sparta for 3 years, and gained a friendship to the king, and was allowed to learn about their secretive society? Xenophon is an excellent source.

@flashmanfred

4 жыл бұрын

Christus Regnet Xenophon is not an excellent source. He was exiled from Athens and found a home in Sparta. He is heavily bias towards making Sparta look good, and trying to make Athenian democracy look bad. It’s a symptom of the “Lakomania” scholars talk about prevalent amongst Athenian philosophers at the time.

@histguy101

4 жыл бұрын

@@flashmanfred Have you considered that the Athenians(or many of the Athenians in power that show up in historical writings) really were the arrogant power hungry assholes that they're often portrayed as? Herodotus claims to be giving only the facts on the Greco-Persian wars as he knows them, and doesn't have the affinity for Sparta that Xenophon may have, and certainly isn't afraid to portray Sparta in a negative light, yet Athens is frequently duplicitous, selfish, and greedy in his account.

Well, Lycurgus is about right.

Just me or does it kind of sound like Sean Bean?

@KnightFox18

4 жыл бұрын

Spartans have no training....

@KnightFox18

4 жыл бұрын

....Spartans need no training...

The boys had older male lovers assigned. To break the ties of family.

Bare foot training is true. From my readings, they made the men a little to thin lol

As a once and future country bumpkin, I can attest to the virtues of barefoot training. Pederasty on the other hand...

Awesome video. Those Spartans were badass mofos

I wonder if this mentor went barefoot and hungry as well.

@PUMPADOUR

4 жыл бұрын

He did.

@Delicious_J

4 жыл бұрын

Well he was a boy once...

@Hungabrigoo

4 жыл бұрын

Obviously yes, why would he want himself to be inferior to his own soldiers?

@KarnodAldhorn

4 жыл бұрын

@@Hungabrigoo I just figured HE might have been too wimpy to do something that to me sounds unhealthy. Also officers are not always better fighters than their subordinants.

@chaosdweller

4 жыл бұрын

Sapiens are strange

Yes, but why the cheeses from the altar of Artemis Orthia?

@nourhansalloum3991

4 жыл бұрын

Alexander Silady because cheese is a preserved food so it doesn’t go bad at the alter. Thus could be left for stealing and safe eating

Being malnourished does not make you taller, being physically active does strengthen your bones and joints so maybe it’s net neutral in the end.

What would you wish on your children?

No soy in their diet

Bring some of these ideas into the current UK school system ?

@schuletrip

4 жыл бұрын

mike young they’re now teaching Kids in Warwickshire how to pleasure themselves!!! We have been infiltrated and betrayed by some of the worst Cultural Marxists the world has ever known!

@bartomiejzakrzewski7220

4 жыл бұрын

@@schuletrip Im glad that I living in Poland we are wariors in stright line after ours ancestors but Marxists indoctrination arrives to our schools to (sory for my english)

@paradigmarson9586

4 жыл бұрын

So um, which of these ideas sounded so great to you? + Hurt little children, have them whipped by adolescents, appoint some little children as prefects to dominate other little children when the schoolmaster is absent, to ensure that children never get any taste of freedom + Half-starve the children and make them walk around barefoot + Leave nickable food around, to encourage them to steal, deceive, lie, ambush, spy and generally grow up to be criminals and creatures of night -- and gladly endure pain and punishment for the fruits of crime. Encourage children to defile altars . + Forbid pederasty, but give random strangers who pass by (schools?) the right to give the children orders and physically assault them

@mike02439

4 жыл бұрын

@@bartomiejzakrzewski7220 Your English is better that my Polish

@Aschmodai

4 жыл бұрын

@@paradigmarson9586 thank you!

Hmmm Sparta and Hollywood have quite some things in common.

@Menaceblue3

4 жыл бұрын

This comment 👉🔥

@2toothsome

4 жыл бұрын

how so?

@FrenchViking466

4 жыл бұрын

Peanut Bear We have a winner 👏🏻

@2toothsome

4 жыл бұрын

@Peanut Bear elaborate

@clmberserker245

4 жыл бұрын

the vid says that sparta was practically one of the few city states which forbade pedophilia

Yet the achievements of Athens vastly outstrip those of Sparta. Philosophy, Science, Politics, Economics, it's Athens that revolutionised these fields. So we know what works, I guess.

So the Spartans are the guy who is super into weight lifting, follows the diet, works hard, but gets out lifted by a superior Chad who's not really trying. I see now.

Spartans ate meat... Grain was the food that fed the flesh.

@0MVR_0

4 жыл бұрын

Spartans were famous for rarely eating anything of wealthy value. In fact, to this day the phrase 'spartan diet' means plain and simple lacking spice or delicacy.

@LeonardoReyes-ob7hv

4 жыл бұрын

ŇøHă Ģ. It’s not that bad.

@JustAManFromThePast

4 жыл бұрын

The Spartan men subsisted on what was called "black soup", a broth mixture of vinegar, blood, salt, and boiled pig leg, which the older men were said to enjoy over meat, shunning the latter.

@siddarth3955

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly, the Spartan men and boys were expert hunters and so actually got good amount of protein which they didn't know was what probably contributed to tall stature. Many philosophers attributed modest diet to it lol 😂

@aokiaoki4238

4 жыл бұрын

They ate everything, not choosy

What happened to girls?

@void3381

4 жыл бұрын

I remember this from a video a long time ago about the account of Xenophon, so I might not remember it correctly, but Sparta was one of the places where the people got really really rich. (well if you were not a slave) Spartans were really rich because of the slave labour they had, and so, since the men go to war, most often die, leaving their spouse with all their assets, which is passed down over generations. Women had a lot of control over politics as such, since some of these spartan women were filthy rich, and could manipulate the happenings in politics to their liking. (However I think they were not allowed to participate in politics directly like becoming a ruler etc.)

@conoromeara6108

4 жыл бұрын

Basically, the hereditary system of Sparta gave all property to a widow. Men died in ancient Sparta a lot. And, after being remarried the widows possessions stayed with her, the males with him. Have a couple husbands die and all the sudden, super rich powerful women. There is actually an Athenian account of it that is very eye opening, although I do not know from who. Spartan women also had more of a say in politics than any other city-state in Greece. Partly because the men were always away campaigning. In addition because of their wealth, when on campaign, the Kings usually asked these women for loans to finance their wars. Thus making them even richer. Mind you this is not all women, but there were definitely powerful women in Sparta.

@conoromeara6108

4 жыл бұрын

This covers some of what I was talking about, although a quick google search will uncover more www.ancient.eu/article/123/the-women-of-sparta-athletic-educated-and-outspoke/

@metaxist

4 жыл бұрын

theo sinc they had to work out and study in order to produce strong and clever offsprings

@futurepig

4 жыл бұрын

They trained to produce more boys.

Every spartans were natty.

You had to finish your job, because of your duty against society, and not for getting money/revenue cause of it. And if you needed something, then you clearly have to steal it. Complete reversal/disconnection of duty/work and revenue, as we understand it nowadays! A complete new perspective, that any child should have learned, in order to be somewhat open-minded...

Outside of the buttfuckery the Spartans were some pretty cool dudes.

@mondaysinsanity8193

4 жыл бұрын

And the communism dont forget the massive amount of communism....and fanatical clinging to tradition that caused them to die out. And the shit ton of slaves killed for fun. And the fucking of young boys by older men but Ya know....

@knome8851

4 жыл бұрын

Monday's insanity nothing wrong with a bit of spartan and chill

@jl9211

4 жыл бұрын

I'm concluding the average person is deaf after reading these comments. He literally said it was forbidden and compared it to incest

Spartans were on to something

5:00 is he talking about pedophilia?

Sparta was a great power... for about 30 years... then not so much... Athens was a great power for 200 years. So the Spartan system was really not all that great.

@AR-gu2no

3 жыл бұрын

Actually Sparta was a great power between 750bc till 300bc , so more than “30” years , Athens was great , but just full of corruption and infighting between politics

based and redpilled

@oisin678

4 жыл бұрын

Fucking kids is redpilled?

@takod323

4 жыл бұрын

@@oisin678 yep

and sparta's down fall only the ruleing elite could train if they would have trained the Helots to the same dagree Sparta would have been a very powerful state

@bunnieskitties293

4 жыл бұрын

Or been overthrown by them.

@madman026

4 жыл бұрын

@@bunnieskitties293 naw the helots were just as dutiful as the rest of the Spartans

@jl9211

4 жыл бұрын

The Perioikoi were part of the same military system. Sparta's downfall was that other city states were forming empires while Sparta was just one region of the Peloponnese. The helots lived west of Sparta in messenia. They were serfs, not domestic slaves

@jl9211

4 жыл бұрын

The Helots neither were from Sparta, nor did they live in Sparta. The perioikoi trained with the Spartiates

The downside to this kind of lifestyle, is when spartans go to other towns/cities they cannot control themselves lol.

Wow, neat... so there we have it, @ 6:00+, literal proof that Sparta was the one Greek state that is officially opposed to actual homosexuality/pederasty, it was IN their law... "An abomination" "Must abstain from it" then he basically says "I am not surprised that people refuse to believe this, for in many states the laws are not opposed to pederasty"

@Hopeforstoicism

4 жыл бұрын

Most ancient Greeks would despise homosexuality no matter the city state. And most cities had similar laws and would punish homosexuals and pedophiles. It is possible that, at certain time periods in some cities there would be a higher level of tolerance. But claims that, during the whole ancient greek era, the general population of Greece would exhibit widespread tolerance or even practice such acts on a large scale are 100% false. No society was more gay-friendly than the modern western society.

@bretalvarez3097

4 жыл бұрын

Ancient Greece wasn’t nearly as gay as a lot of people think it was, in fact the act of sodomizing a free man/youth would mean that free man/youth would lose all honor, which would obviously not be appreciated and would probably start a vendetta if it did happen.

@reeyees50

4 жыл бұрын

Yet, Spartans still engaged in the custom like other Greek states. Maybe we shouldn't just judge the culture of other people based on our own

@musicguy20

4 жыл бұрын

Adnan604 Spartans warriors used to actively have homosexual relations with each other in the barracks. They hardly ever saw their wives or females. That’s why they had such good bonds with each other and fought harder than other army’s where they hardly knew other soldiers. Fierce warriors.

@bretalvarez3097

4 жыл бұрын

@musicguy20 It’s unlikely they had homosexual relations while in the barracks because in Ancient Greek society any homosexual activity would have to have taken place between an older man(35-50) and a younger man(15-25) to be socially acceptable. And seeing how strict the Spartans were with all aspects of life it would be unlikely for them to have homosexual relations with people who are within the same age group. Of course exceptions exist but it would not have been common.

The 300, need I say more

So basically no butt stuff?

@jl9211

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, but there's a deeply entrenched myth that it was normalized.

@stevarnamik2233

4 жыл бұрын

@@jl9211 time for cake and sodomy

I would like to know, how the father-son relations were in ancient Greek. How kids took it, after growing up and realise his father was okay with a guy who tried and possibly succeeded to molest him.

@Dr.TJ_Eckleburg

4 жыл бұрын

I'm guessing that familial and social relations were RADICALLY different from anything we'd recognize as normal today. Parents and their children were simply not bonded in any way we'd understand.

@jl9211

4 жыл бұрын

It was forbidden and the notion of nromalized pederasty is a myth. Read Adonis Georgiades

Plutarch, the Greek biographer, observed: “The ancient Greeks, before the time of Lycurgus, ate nothing but fruits.”

@jl9211

4 жыл бұрын

More evidence for plutarch being the most overrated writer on ancient Greece

@soapmaker2263

2 жыл бұрын

@@jl9211 It's just a little hyperbole, chill out.

This reminds me of the scene from 300 where a mom becomes completely hysterical when her little boy is dragged out of the house in training. I never laughed harder than in that moment.

I just find it so shocking and fascinating that love between men and boys was a normal and sometimes admired practice in ancient Greece.

@bunnieskitties293

4 жыл бұрын

Was normal in old times Japan too.

People today like to look back in admiration of spartan society. I think it's a masculine thing because I think most men have fantasized about being part of a group of hyper masculine guys who have a sacred mission to carry out. But in all honesty, as much as Marshall prowess is to be admired in any society, the Spartans had a serious issue. Their birth rate. Spartan men did marry women so what happened? While pederasty may have been illegal, something tells me that homosexual relationships between adults was rather common towards the end of spartan society. Their laws were very rigid and not easily changed. The same society that eventually grew to 8000 citizens at its peak was down to mere hundreds only decades later. We don't have writings from the spartan perspective and much of the past has been lost to time so we will probably never know. As an aside, I saw the ancient Greece exhibit at my local museum and it was unforgettable. The actual sculptures of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle were on display as well as a sculpture of a spartan soldier smiling at you. Being so close to history is indescribable. On top of that there were relics from the mycenaan civilization such as death masks.

Wow,green bay packers,quite took the football stuff real far,how kinda saddening

Wtf

EQ the S sound on this guys elocution

I lived near Lycurgus, iowa lol. I was raised quite spartan though or rather, in an abusive household :D im glad i'm not a pussy though. I feel no pain! Fear is for the toeless and taking a break from weed gets you really baked. after the break ofc ftw tldr smd

@JesusRocksTryPrayin

4 жыл бұрын

@zztop3000 Give your taste in videos you may like this channel: kzread.info/dron/0gkKMGpCgyun7OoEOseryg.html it's out there lol! But he talks about esoteric wisdom and history Some of it gets really weird but it's quite interesting lol

Spartans weren't pedos

1st ✌️

@doctorpicardnononono7469

4 жыл бұрын

Thirst.

@rewi_the_kiwi

4 жыл бұрын

Burst.

When he talks of men and boys, I believe it was customary for boys to have older men as mentors and this could become sexual. Not an authority though.

@andycopland3179

4 жыл бұрын

@Chicken Little Thanks for the info 👍

@jl9211

4 жыл бұрын

This myth has been thoroughly debunked by Adonis Georgiades, and the video even says it was forbidden and equal to incest

@andycopland3179

4 жыл бұрын

@@jl9211 Funny you replied now, because I just got done with Plato's symposium. They debated love with all the greats (socrates etc) and they mention the love of boys, as long as they have just started growing a beard as a higher love. They then describe common love, the love of a man who says anything to bed a woman.

@jl9211

4 жыл бұрын

@@andycopland3179 I guess you missed the entire context of symposium, but as I've stated, there are entire books debunking this by actual greeks.

@andycopland3179

4 жыл бұрын

@@jl9211 the context being?

That is why there is no more Sparta!

Actually spartans were called lakedemons, were they lived all the area around of Sparta is called lakonia. Demons actually means divine - God, and it not the bad spirits of hell as Christians tells us, they are the demons of lakonia and they earned the title I'm part of lakonia ❤️

@theblackdeath8293

4 жыл бұрын

ρναγυ κροκοδειλε you don't know nothing you dumb idiot

@user-ho7xv6ig2r

4 жыл бұрын

@@theblackdeath8293 why so salty you must be one hardcore Christian 😂😘

@theblackdeath8293

4 жыл бұрын

ρναγυ κροκοδειλε nah you're just dumb learn about Spartans before speaking fake news

@user-ho7xv6ig2r

4 жыл бұрын

@@theblackdeath8293 what fake news you dumb fuck are you even Greek or you just say fake news because you don't understand anything? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacedaemon_(mythology) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia

@theblackdeath8293

4 жыл бұрын

ρναγυ κροκοδειλε only because the Internet says stuff im suppose to believe it?

Every video on Spartans on utube say the same thing! Throw away ya shoes and eat little and root men

I wonder if that's why the Spartan dominance of Greece was extremely short lived... although the building of discipline is an awesome ideology; preventing them from eating till their fill, intimacy with boys and eating foods that only allow slender, lean bodies instead of lean body mass was a major downside of spartan society.

@gussstavo

4 жыл бұрын

?

@adam-k

3 жыл бұрын

I dont think you listened. Intimacy with boys was strictly forbidden in Sparta. They were in power for a hundred years. More than any other Greek city state and they were able to preserve independence against Phillip and Alexander when all the other city states has fallen.

@soapmaker2263

2 жыл бұрын

You need to relisten to the bit about intimacy. Also, they had a high protein diet. The bit about avoiding foods that 'increased flesh' is referring to grains.

Laconia or Lakaedomon. That was their native name, while Sparta was only their capital. They belonged to a savage, uncivilized group called Dorians, who had their own unique dialect and traditions. They probably invaded from the north-west.

Ew

...then came the Thebans and kick Spartan arse

@klausbrinck2137

4 жыл бұрын

Thebans were inferior allies of Sparta, that were obliged, as an inferior ally, to adopt the same military training as Spartans. Spartans military experts were living in Thebes to constantly overlook the training, and report any breach of contract. And then Thebans broke up the alliance!

@kvarnerinfoTV

4 жыл бұрын

@@klausbrinck2137 so inferior that 500 Thebans utterly destroyed 1000-1800 Spartans, and few years later again in big battle. 300 men of Theban sacred band were unmatched by any force in ancient Greece.

@klausbrinck2137

4 жыл бұрын

@@kvarnerinfoTV Utterly many decades later, with the training of Spartans... But at the beggining they were the junior-ally

So Sparta was opposed to pedophilia then? Frick yeah, they just moved up on my Civ list

@klausbrinck2137

4 жыл бұрын

Lots of the pedophilia rumors were athenian propaganda, exactly as Spartans were spreading bad rumors about Athenians, as part of spartan propaganda...

@CharuzuAutomatonArtificer

4 жыл бұрын

@@klausbrinck2137 That's very interesting, I'll have to look a bit more into that. Reminds me of today's climate XD

@klausbrinck2137

4 жыл бұрын

@@CharuzuAutomatonArtificer It was more or less exactly the same as today, you could say Greeks invented it, and inherited it, the good sides of culture, as their drawbacks too...

Although its interesting, I think its an extremely bad idea to romanticize this sort of lifestyle.

Alas, all the macho trainings came tae naught when Spartans bred amongst themselves intae weaklings at the end 😉 demographic suicide 😂

@alexsanderrain2980

4 жыл бұрын

That's not what happened. The reasons for Sparta's decline are, like with any nation, multiple. One reason was the innability of Sparta to cultivate, for itself, lasting alliances. This was due to a variety of reasons but chief among them was the idea that Spartans weren't greeks and therefore greeks were only useful as Helots. Another was prophecies... and a few more other reasons. The other main reason for Sparta's decline was the way money and wealth was handled in Sparta. In a world where war is a necessity, and war is waged by men... it is a bad idea to have a system that makes women the dominant economic power in society. And this is exactly what happened, as the widows got to keep all the wealth of their husbands. Now you can imagine, that in a society that is very often found at war, men died with quite a high frequency. And therefore, it was not uncommon for a woman to remarry. And since women generally live longer than men, for them to have their second husbands' wealth. And in a society where wealth and influence go hand in hand, the overall political viewpoint and policies of sparta became more "feminine" as anything that a group of wealthy women didn't approve of, didn't get made. And only things that women did approve of did get made. Anyway, there are other reasons but these are 2 of the main ones. Not genetic inbreeding. There is no proof of that taking place on a large scale because it was completely forbidden.

@johnmockingyou7547

4 жыл бұрын

@@alexsanderrain2980 lol! breeding amongst 1st cousins are also a form of inbreeding. This was not forbidden in their society & preservation of bloodlines was tae ensure the wealth in the form of State's land & helots allocations remains within a family. Remember an Army no matter how formidable marches on its stomach. & land cultivated by "lowly" helots 😉

@Alexander-tu3iv

4 жыл бұрын

@@alexsanderrain2980 Holy shit what a low IQ analysis. If you seriously think the two main reasons for Spartan decline was their reputation as outsiders and the influence of women you don't know very much about Sparta. Women held major economic influence throughout Spartan history it's not something they magically acquired coinciding with Spartas decline. The feminizing argument doesn't make sense you don't even explain it properly you just say "Women acquired influence and then Sparta declined" eh why? What specific policies did these women implement? What societal changes that resulted in decline came from their influence? The real reason Sparta declined were the battles of Leuctra and the second battle of Mantiniea against Thebes led by Epiminondas. Spartan strength came from the quality of its hoplites, it dedicated its entire culture to forge the best and most disciplined individual soldiers in Greece, extensively using slaves so Spartan men didn't need to work and could focus on soldiering. And for centuries this worked and they were regarded as being pretty much undefeatable on land, but warfare changed, at Leuctra the Thebians went against the norm of hoplite warfare and instead of putting its best troops on the right to prevent drift as often happened they put them on the left facing the best Spartan troops and massed them 50 ranks deep instead of 12 and crushed the Spartan elite, a similar outcome happened later at Mantiniea with Epiminondas using similar tactics and winning again but dying and paving the way for Macedonian hegemony, the innovations made by Phillip and Alexander made Spartan hoplites tactics obsolete and due to the heavily specialised Spartan culture they weren't able to adapt, they remained independent and a regional power for another 2 centuries fiercely sticking to their independence and culture, but were unable to make any major wartime innovations to reassert themselves as a dominant land power and were eventually annexed by the Acheans and then the Romans. The nature of their citizenship being based on bloodline meant that their population was always relatively low and had a hard time recovering after major losses. In the end Sparta declined because it was unable to adapt to a rapidly changing world, which is a pretty universal theme in human history, sometimes it's because a culture is just to rigid other times it's because a leader or ruler can't see which way the wind is blowing and makes a wrong decision. Innovation and adaptability is the name of the game always has been always will be, and not "Women with their emotional little pea brains shouldn't be in charge of people hur dur"

So the Spartans were completely anti pederastia even in it's most ''gentle'' Greek forms? Hmm wonder why most of the Greeks hated them, is there a correlation there :P

@luxborealis

4 жыл бұрын

No, the Spartans only opposed pederastia in the agoge. They were still expected to sexually serve their elders when they joined the army in their teens.

"But the spartan did it too!" Catholic priest maybe

@miraclessaint-hilaire4941

3 жыл бұрын

😬😂

@TomorrowWeLive

2 жыл бұрын

More like modern alphabet creature