*Follow-up video:* kzread.info/dash/bejne/qq5lk6Saqqayh5c.html Also, addressing a comment about "Linux fanboys" in the intro: "Linux user" = someone who uses an innovative, powerful, and free operating system "Fanboy" = someone who obsessively and aggressively promotes/defends a product against all reason or context One of these people I like, one I do not.

@BenderdickCumbersnatch

2 жыл бұрын

Eh forget it. I kept attempting to post solutions to all of your problems here, but KZread's AI just doesn't let them through. Even a single word can be too much, and there's no way that I'll spend hours re-posting the comment and deleting word by word until it sticks. If you use Discord, I can help you out. I'll also do one last post since you may receive it as a readable email notification.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

The aggression level of KZread's spam filter appears to have been set to "Rambo" recently. It seems to block a lot of innocent comments. I rescue what I can from the bin, but it outright deletes most.

@BenderdickCumbersnatch

2 жыл бұрын

​@@ProTechShow Hehe yeah exactly, their AI seems to have snagged a lot of completely innocent words in its training. Bisqwit made a video about some of those words, it's insane: kzread.info/dash/bejne/goqg0cR9qbfXlbw.html

@joschafinger126

2 жыл бұрын

Fair enough, but I do have to say that we Linux users tend to become quite enthusiastic, and therefore sometimes overstep that line temporarily. You know, using Linux is a bit like riding a Harley-Davidson or an Indian: you don't need to be an enthusiast and tinkerer to do so, but something about it does tend to turn you into one. Windows just doesn't have that side effect, while Mac seems to turn folks into real fanboys, just uncritically loving whatever Apple throws at them.

@joschafinger126

2 жыл бұрын

@@blacksky5984 We're some 2 -3% of home desktop users, plus some 98% of servers, about 99.9% of supercomputers and, counting only the kernel, most mobile users (Android is still based on the Linux kernel). Also, many education systems work with Linux -my own Extremadura, Spain, has been doing so for nigh-on 30 years. Plus, using Windows or Mac for state use is actually a huge legal problem in most jurisdictions, as no government has the right to find out what their computers actually do when in use (the code is proprietary, after all)

I think this was a really fair video. Third party support is the single biggest issue with Linux by far, both on the hardware and software side. Personally I've bought a lot of my hardware with Linux in mind, so that really isn't an issue for me, but it still is the biggest hurdle for new users I think.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

It's true. Third party support is always a problem and I suspect it's frustrating for many in the Linux community to have these issues outside their control. Laptops seem to be more problematic then desktops from my (limited) experience. My primary (desktop) computer has no driver issues in Linux, but it's not a candidate for switching.

@nils.offermann

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow That'a true and I think we're far from reaching critical mass when it comes to Linux desktop adoption. But imo we don't really have to as a lot of desktop software targets Linux as a specialized target, not a desktop system and that leads to good software support for us desktop users. Take the Steam Deck and Google Project Borealis. Both will lead to game developers targeting Linux/Proton as a platform more and more and we desktop users profit

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

The Proton type of stuff could be a turning point if it pushes Linux PCs into the hands of the masses. I'm interested in how performance holds up once things really start getting optimised. Linux has always been the forgotten child for mainstream gaming and often reliant on workarounds, but in the professional rendering space Linux generally outperforms Windows. If in the future "average gamers" find out that a Linux PC gets more FPS at lower cost than a Windows PC... it could get interesting.

@nils.offermann

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow Yeah I've seen that too. Native Vulkan titles tend to outperform Windows even when running through Proton. So I'd imagine game studios with compatibility in mind would go with Vulkan more often and that could make this a reality. Though I don't think Linux adoption will go anywhere until major hardware vendors start preinstalling it and treating it as a first class citizen. Seeing that would be amazing

@BenderdickCumbersnatch

2 жыл бұрын

@@nils.offermann DXVK to run DirectX games on Vulkan works on Windows too and even gives Windows users higher FPS, but I think it gives even higher on Linux.

I agree with the statement that if you're deep into Microsoft's ecosystem you prefer to stay on windows rather than switching over Linux.

WPS Office is by FAR the best experience for working with MS Office files on Linux. I HIGHLY recommend you give it a shot! It has a very clean and modern looking UI as well.

@CesarPeron

Жыл бұрын

X2

@PremierPrep

Жыл бұрын

@Cesar EP Since I made this comment, I've actually switched to OnlyOffice. I hadn't used it before and it's incredible! Hard to say which is better objectively but I like OnlyOffice

About libreoffice and evolution: the first has a new option to switch layouts and change the icon theme, and that can make it feel more modern. The document compatibility: it is MS fault for barely giving documentation in their format, so the libreoffice guys have to reverse engineer how to manage docx. Evolution is old, and it is meant to be replaced by Geary, but for some reason evolution is being more promoted.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think Geary supports Exchange properly (i.e. MAPI/EWS rather than just IMAP) which is why I went with Evolution. I can completely believe the compatibility issues are Microsoft's fault. Even when they do document their standards they don't always follow them themselves. Unfortunately the result is the same either way. I feel sympathy for the devs having to work with one hand tied behind their backs but I still need to share documents with people. It reminds me of the early days when IE ruled the internet and Firefox came on the scene - FF was measurably the better browser, but loads of websites still only worked in IE because they'd been written around its bugs.

@MasterGeekMX

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow Geary is meant to be integrated with the gnome desktop, thus one needs to go to the system settings and then set up the account in the "online accounts" section. And MS screws up doc and docx so bad, that it was the reason why adobe developed the PDF format in the first place.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

​@@MasterGeekMX Evolution can integrate with the GNOME accounts setting as well, which is how I used it. The constraint for me is that Geary doesn't support the email platform used by several of my accounts. There are requests for it to do so, but their response is to use Evolution instead as they're focusing on open standards. This makes ideological sense; however, excluding the platform most businesses use will leave a lot of people on Evolution for the time being.

@MasterGeekMX

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow Fair enough. as my other comment said, GNOME devs are really opinionated, and work on things they have the interest.

I would be very interested to see you do this comparison again with different distros. Many people have mentioned that Fedora, while good for many, isn't exactly the best distro for switching from windows. Personally (as a Debian-cinnamon user) I would like to see you do the same comparison with linux mint.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the suggestion. None of the deal-breaking issues I had were specific to Fedora and it's more familiar to me than Debian/Mint so the conclusion wouldn't change (although maybe the journey would be a little different). Cinnamon might be an easier transition than Gnome, but I don't mind Gnome with a few tweaks - I gave it a bit of a hard time in places because I felt it was only fair to call out both the problems and advantages (i.e. more customisable Vs Windows, but also more necessary because the default isn't great IMO). The problems I was unable to sufficiently solve for my use case were MS Office compatibility and my audio issue. OnlyOffice does better, but still doesn't cover enough of my use. I actually tested the audio issue on about 10 distros (Mint/Cinnamon was one) but the answer appears to be that the laptop is intended to be paired with a proprietary psychoacoustic algorithm that isn't coming to Linux without Dell/Waves' blessing. 🙁

Thanks for the review. Very honest. I have been using Ubuntu Linux for 12 years and have had a great experience but I'm also very careful about my shopping. I always make sure that whatever I buy works with Linux, so enjoying and being productive on Linux is definitely a commitment, not for the average user for now. It won't be until third party developers consider it a first class citizen.

I think that is a very fair evaluation. I think if someone has a very common HP or Dell business type PC with Intel HD graphics they are probably going to have a very good experience in Windows 10 or a Linux distro such as Linux Mint or Xubuntu. However, they will run into problems as you did with software.

Switched from Linux back to Windows. Used debian and arch predominately. Like FreeBSD and Linux on my servers, but dealing with a desktopenvironment that constantly had issues and solving connectivity problems (bluetooth) really sucked up too much time. WSL on Windows really brought me back to the dark side.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

I can tell it's been a while since you used Arch - you forgot to add "BTW" . I thought that was mandatory! 🤣

Linux Fanboy here: 11:25 It comes down to the benefits of the open source community and the fact that linux has been managing packages and applications way before we knew what the word App means. I use RHEL 8 on my laptop as a daily driver and love it!! Nevertheless, great content again Andrew! This video felt like an annual performance review at work... lol. (not everything is perfect)

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Yes, I agree. That plus a bit of motivation perhaps. Microsoft did add a unified software repository and package manager to Windows... if you count the Microsoft store... The difference being the motivation there seems to be more about monetisation than solving any existing problems.

New users might want to start with a more user friendly distribution, such as Linux Mint Cinnamon, MX Linux or Zorin.

@ajc0372

2 жыл бұрын

I would agree, Fedora was probably not the best choice for a new user.

This is the most fair Linux video I've watched in a while ❤️ Earned a sub 😇Good work bro. I use both Linux & Windows, and I hate + love both.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks 🙂 The love/hate thing is a pretty good summay!

This was a nice video to watch, thank you for your report

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful 🙂

I'm where you are/were. I installed Debian Linux about 15 years ago, had to trash it because I wanted/needed to learn an application that didn't have a Linux distro and kind of just kept on keeping on in Windows. I'm leaving Windows for Linux because I have 32 Gigs of Memory, a 6 core CPU and I can't run Windows 11. I'm going to Linux Mint (Ubuntu/Debian begotten distro). I've heard that GNOME did a major release that was majorly bad, maybe another desktop environment would give you a better "out of the box" experience.

What a refreshing change to see a well informed review of Linux from a Windows perspective. As a long time Linux user I agree with most of your points. If you are a serious gamer, or are wedded to Windows specific software, or have cutting-edge or weird hardware, then Linux is not for you. If you do not fit into these categories, give Linux a try but only on a spare computer so you are free to break things without having to worry about your important data. There is a learning curve but some distros, such as Linux Mint (my choice), are less steep than Fedora or Arch. I was disappointed that you, like all other Windows users, failed to fully investigate the features that are unique to Linux, and that make using Linux better than the equivalent Windows experience. But, before I get into specifics, I would like to make some general observations about your experiences:- - Gnome is meant for power users, and is built around using keyboard shortcuts rather than using a mouse. Other desktop environments, such as Mint Cinnamon, are far more suitable for mouse-loving casual users like myself. - Printer experience varies a lot: Brother and HP generally work out-of-the-box. Older devices generally work better than on Windows, especially if a new version of Windows has dropped driver support. Did you see how happy Linus Sebastian was when, during the third part of the LTT challenge, he found that his ancient Samsung printer worked with little fuss? Also network printers should work well as Linus has been more enthusiastic than Windows in embracing the new-ish 'driverless printing' protocol: devices should be recognised and set-up automatically, without any user interaction. Again, look how happy Luke was with his printer during the LTT challenge. - Other office suites claim better compatibility with MS Office, such as Only Office or WPS Office. I am not aware of anyone who has done a comprehensive comparison of the compatibility these office software, so this may be a suggestion for one of your future videos? :) Finally, as mentioned above, Linux has many unique features that are not found on Windows, and that can make using Linux desktop more efficient than using Windows. They can reduce the number of mouse clicks for basic operations from six or seven (on Windows) to one or two on Linux. This does not sound much bu the savings build up over the working day. For example:- - File mangers have more advanced features: Boot from a Mint Cinnamon live USB, open the file manager, then either press F3 (once) for Dual Panels, or press Ctrl+T (several times) for Tabbed Browsing. These features are very useful, and I really miss them when I am forced to use Windows' old fashioned, and limited, file manager. - Advanced Drag-and -Drop either moves or copies files, depending upon context. This eliminates the time-wasting Select+Ctrl+C+Select+Ctrl+V that you have in Windows. - Did you know that, in Linux, every time you highlight text it is automatically copied to the clipboard? You can then paste it, into any other app, by simply clicking the middle mouse button, this again saves several mouse clicks. - The keyboard in Linux has a third and fourth layer of special characters that are accessible by a simple keyboard shortcut, this makes typing complicated technical documents much easier. In comparison, Windows only has two and a half layers of characters. I have been using Linux full time since 2008. There is a lot to recommend it, in the right conditions. Give it a try.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your thoughts. Some interesting considerations. I didn't find Fedora to have a steep learning curve TBH. Likely because I'm used to the RHEL family it felt fairly familiar. I did have to fight the temptation just to crack open the terminal out of habit! The printer is actually a 10 year old network (albeit wireless) printer. Initially it looked promising - Windows doesn't detect it automatically but Fedora did. Unfortunately although detected it didn't actually work with the built-in drivers. The manufacturer's did work but because it's quite old the packages it relies on are obsolete making them trickier to track down. There wasn't time to go into all of the differences in a single video so I had to choose what felt most important to talk about. One thing that didn't make the cut but probably surprised me most was using multiple workspaces. The concept isn't new to me, but it's the first time I actually found myself using them. Previously I've found them clunky, but with a touchpad they worked quite well. I still find them clunky with a mouse and keyboard in Linux, and since returning to Windows I've tried using them with a touchpad but still didn't like them. The specific combination of a touchpad and GNOME's default gestures was just somehow very intuitive. A couple of others have mentioned Only Office as well. I feel like I should probably give that a go at some point in the future, although I don't think it will be on this laptop unless someone comes out with an audio driver that ungimps the speakers.

@danielAgorander

2 жыл бұрын

I would challenge the "If you're a serious gamer" as something that disqualifies Linux though. This all depends on WHAT you are playing. As very much a "serious gamer" myself, the only thing my Windows install exists to do is play Microsoft Flight Simulator - and only because I would lose voice ATC if I ran that in my Linux machines. (Since MSFS hooks straight to Windows' text-to-speech functionality for that.) But the vast majority of my 400+ strong Steam library "just works". On Epic Games store, the only thing I've had problems with is the Epic Games launcher itself. Wargaming launcher sometimes derps as well. Where things get properly messy is: "if you are an online gamer". So many games that target multiplayer, especially competitive multiplayer, simply will not work (for now) due to anti-cheat software/rootkits/etc. And, of course, you might be unlucky and your favourite game doesn't work - but holy crap things are changing fast in that space. Now, if you were to preface this with: if you are a-technical and a gamer or you're a serious competitive gamer, then yeah... While turning a game from no-worky to flawless is, for me, often just a one minute hop to protondb to find an appropriate protontricks command, this would not be the case for a "serious gamer" that has limited technical skills (or doesn't have the time). Depending on their distribution, they might not even be able to get protontricks/winetricks installed in the first place, and while Proton is making amazing progress this could still be game over in that situation. But assuming the same caveat as was given in the video - if you are technical or willing to spend some time learning - then Linux is actually a really great gaming platform. Not all gamers are a-technical. ;)

@himindoors9501

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow Thanks for the response. Workspaces work best with keyboard shortcuts. One good trick, involving PowerPoint, is to use Ctrl+WinKey+Right Arrow (in Windows) to jump out of a presentation and into Workspace 2, where you can open another application to demonstrate a new feature or concept, then use Ctrl+WinKey+Left Arrow to jump back into your presentation exactly where you left it. This can look very impressive to a room full of your co-workers. 🙂

@himindoors9501

2 жыл бұрын

@@danielAgorander I am not a gamer so have no first hand experience. My opinion is based upon the views of other gamers, including the example of the Linus Tech Tips challenge. What is your opinion of the troubles that Linus and Luke had, bearing in mind that we haven't seen part 4 yet?

@Powerincarnate.

2 жыл бұрын

I also agree this was a fair assessment of both systems. Linux truly is in a catch 22 that prevent it from ever getting significant market share. The big issue for me when I tried to switch were things like libre office you mentioned. I tried it; did some work from home on it; worked fine; looked old as hell though; wen to work; loaded the document in windows and my graphs and other stuff was all over the place broken on microsoft office. So as you said, it would be one thing if I'm the only one using office; but the minute that I have to present something to a crowd, or share document with other folks; I simply can't rely on libre office for the critical work that I do and I also can't expect everyone to also switch to libre office. The only Fix really is that Linux need Microsoft Office, just like MacOS has microsoft office; but marketshare is so long; there is low incentive to release it on linux and linux users are so anti-proprietary software that they aren't activley pushing for Office either so well....I can't use linux. There are numerous similar issues; like games won't work; so while some may work; if i want to play one that doesn't work, i have to go to windows so again either dual boot windows or linux..or just stick to windwos. Same issue with fractional scaling issues on hidpi screens; was terrible back then and many softwares don't respect your scaling on linux; my work citrix server certainly didn't again making critical work stuff unable to be done on linux; so again back to windows. The last think I keep mentioning on these videos is; there seem to be this infatuation with Windows vs Linux; sooooo many vidoes on this. But understand the market; windows have been losing market share to APPLE for the past 5-10 years; these macbook pros and macbook airs; imacs and to a less extent mac pros have been denting window's shares. These linux videos can't keep going windows vs linux; because clearly when people leave windows, they are going to MAC OS; so you must also make videos of MACOS vs linux; or else, you are literally missing the boat; and what I've seen is once these people switch to MACOS; they become lifers as their phones and watches and other stuff are well integrated into that ecosystem. Linux simply doesn't have that hook that keeps people who may have switch to linux from windows as Apple has for windows to macos switches. Afterall, MACOS isn't the best "gaming" OS either...but yet people switch and stay on Mac; so we can't just blame gaming as a key reason linux doesn't have marketshare; it's actually a multitude of reasons that leads to the current state of affairs.

Good fair review and just straight to the point!!!!

@ProTechShow

Жыл бұрын

Thanks 🙂

Pretty sure the MS True Type fonts are not installed on Linux distros due to licencing issues. That's what causes problems with sharing office docs between the two. Haven't done it for years but you need to place copies of the TrueType fonts off of a windows machine into the right place on your Linux box.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the suggestion. It's worth a try!

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Gave this a try on a VM. It helps the documents display more consistently on Fedora after installing the fonts, but the problem of going back to Windows and finding the formatting has changed still persists. I think OnlyOffice is beckoning given how many have suggested it...

I have worked with unix and later Linux servers since the early 1990s and never had any real problems. I tried sun os with openwindows on the sparkstation 2 and SLC back in 1991 but gave up, I tried red hat 8 years later and gave up. 30 years later I am going to try again. I need to break the habit of only giving Linux boxes get power and network only. Fingers crossed for attempt 3.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Reply afterwards and let us know how it goes! I've always thought Linux feels like a command-line OS that has had GUI slapped on top, and Windows Server core installs feel like a GUI OS that has had lumps chopped off. Both are clearly improving as time goes on, though. Microsoft are starting to support Linux a lot more, too. If they bring out Office for Linux and I was using a different device that worked with "normal" audio drivers the experience would be very different!

Awesome video. I'm finding that I like Linux more for my dev work but need the Office products for documentation and presentations so...I installed Manjaro in a VM with Windows as the host. It works well for me. Subscribed, I like your channel.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Glad to have you 🙂 Have you had a play with WSL? It sounds like your scenario was pretty much Microsoft's target use case.

Both Linux Mint and MX Linux worked for me out of the box. No tech skills need for everyday use. After 30+ years with Microsoft, I have been a linux user for about two weeks now. I don't see myself going back to windows.

Nice video. What's your verdict on W11? Any bugs or have they all been ironed out? I'm on W10 and have been holding off upgrading in case there are any lingering problems as there usually are

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

I've not had any problems at all on my laptop (other than disliking the start menu), despite the CPU being technically unsupported. I haven't upgraded my main computer yet, though. I'm waiting for BMD to announce Resolve support for Win11 first because video editing tends to be one of those applications that will find the bugs!

@BlueRayofLight

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow bruh, every other software you mentioned in the video that you used was not made for linux, but resolve was originally developed for linux and works the best on linux. watch snazzy labs video on it and they explained the problems they had with resolve on windows and mac and how running it on linux solved their problems

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

@@BlueRayofLight I have used Resolve on Linux previously. It's true that it was originally developed for Linux, but it has changed a lot since then and for most people now it's a better experience on Windows or Mac. e.g. it can't read the codecs that come out of my camera on Linux and driver support is problematic. I go into it in a little more detail in the Microsoft video linked on the end screen of this video. With the right hardware the Linux version can outperform both Windows and Mac. Their Linux ISO (not the only way to run it, but the only supported one) runs CentOS 7.3, with the firewall disabled, and you're never supposed to patch it. In short, I don't believe it's intended for a home computer where it would be a significant security vulnerability; but a serious post house where they need the extra performance, they're only using high-end professional codecs, and they're keeping it all in an air-gapped production network. This isn't the only way to run it (and not how I did), but for my little KZread world the requirement to transcode everything to codecs it can support on Linux outweighs any benefits. Annoyingly, everything else I use for video production works great on Linux!

@BlueRayofLight

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow the free version doesn't have the right codecs installed but the studio version does have. Also I've tried it both on Ubuntu and arch and they work perfectly so there's practically no need for the iso nowadays unless you're on a professional production machine like you mentioned

@BlueRayofLight

2 жыл бұрын

Also there is a really easy workaround for the free version and that's reencoding the vids to mjpeg

Has the linux experience have had any effect in your daily use of winbloat after you migrated back to it? Maybe separating yourself from proprietary software and/or software standards (for example your document format)?

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Not really, no. Maybe I'm a bit more annoyed at the incessant ads attempting to creep onto my desktop, but the biggest constraint on my workflow is what the rest of the world uses. I personally prefer MS Office over LibreOffice, but the bigger issue is that everyone sharing documents with me uses MS Office so if I switch to something else it creates an immediate compatibility issue with other people.

@locatemarbles

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow , i meant more in the direction of using non-proprietary formats even under the MS Office suite, but ok. How about new software, would you now look more closely if it is open or closed source before choosing to use it? Or just not give it a thought?

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

It depends on the situation. I wouldn't say my opinion has changed, but generically-speaking I'm usually more interested in how well supported an application is. A proprietary application that has active and responsive support would win over an open source project supported by one person who's struggling to find time to maintain it, but there is a sense of critical mass with open source where once a project becomes popular enough it has the added benefit that even if the original maintainer stops supporting it someone else will pick it up and it will live on. If the application is something intended to integrate with others then regardless of whether they share the code I strongly prefer it to use open standards to avoid lock-in and ensure components can be swapped out in the future.

I would also recommend Linux for PCs dated before 2017, especially if you're on a tight budget, or having trouble locating a good new PC (e.g., suffering supply chain issues). Windows 11 will not work on older PCs, but Linux will. If you can get the PC configured to your specs by a Linux guru, that is all the more reason to switch.

The "average Windows user" wanting to try Linux should first spend a bit of time trying to select a version initially most suited to their individual needs. The same goes for the hardware. If Linux is put on hardware with known issues of course it's going to be a bad experience. As for your LibreOffice (LO) operational problems, I am very surprised at what you said. It would be nice to see what you were doing. Possibly it was a font metrics problem? If you used a common font or installed a common font then errors you hint at may vanish. LO can be themed. What file formats were you using? There are other alternative Office packages that supposedly offer different/closer(?) comparability with MS Office. My entire workplace uses Windows, I've just made the change to Linux. Daily driving for a few days now after a few months of prep. I'm very happy with it. Feel so happy to leave Spydows/Controldows behind. People tend to forget the large number of years they spent being put in their place with Windows owning your computer. Of course some work will be associated with the realization that infect you are the master of your computer if one switches. The lack of serfdom in Linux is an enormously weighty +'ve far outweighing eye candy on one particular package. Anyway, good luck to you with whatever OS everyone feel is best for them... just be conscious of the fact some learning (which will only be beneficial to you) will be involved if you try out Linux. Once over the peak you should see a beautiful valley.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

If building/purchasing a new computer for Linux I'd agree about the hardware. I'd say you should do that for any OS including Windows as some hardware just has more buggy drivers than others (I remember Broadcom NICs bluescreening a lot of boxes over several years). The context this video was created for is that any time you see someone discussing the Windows 11 upgrade that's being pushed out you will typically see someone replying not to install it and to install Linux instead. In that case you don't get to choose your hardware so going out and acquiring something that had already been validated wouldn't have been a fair example. I can't remember the Office issues in detail (this wasn't originally intended to be for a video and it's been a couple of months since I actually did it), but I remember the final straw was that I opened a PowerPoint and popped in a few lines of text. The file was completely default at this point - no formatting applied whatsoever, just some text to record points I wanted to make into a presentation later. When that came out with sizes all over the place I figured there was little point in continuing to pursue it. I ended up just using RDP to my Windows PC from Linux when I needed to edit a document so I could feel confident it wouldn't get messed up between the two of them.

I understand you. Maybe I can help you, if you like? I work with Linux on my desktop since 1998 and with Unix since 1991. We can work and solve the issues that you experienced. Than you can do a new video about your new experience.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

If you have an idea about the audio driver then by all means drop me a message and I'll give it a try. The only outstanding technical issues were that and MS Office combability. The others I was able to solve or work around, but I've talked about them because they are the sort of issues that make Linux inaccessible to a lot of people. Office compatibility seems to be a limitation of LibreOffice (or perhaps MS Office itself is at fault but the result is the same).

Great video and very fair. So for starters I probably wouldn't have started with Fedora as and starter OS. Zorin, Feren, POP or Kubuntu/Ubuntu would be better. Next, the encryption is not something a normal windows user would even think about using. Those distributions would also have better printer support including proprietary drivers. I would change libreoffice in tabbed mode and probably just use onlyoffice. Then either use thunderbird or mailspring for email.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Thunderbird and Mailspring don't seem to support Exchange as a backend (other than POP/IMAP which has very limited functionality in Exchange and disabled by default). It's why I landed on Evolution but ended up just using webmail mostly.

Windows vista 2 opps windows 11 pushed into moving into Linux. Thank you Microsoft for the gift of seeing the light and moving into Linux.

For office software on Linux, use wps office, it would have 90% of the features of MS office and looks modern.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

A few people have mentioned OnlyOffice to me as well. I'd read that LibreOffice has improved MS Office compatibility in recent updates so that seemed like a sensible choice (and was installed by default) but maybe I should try a few others in the future.

@idtyu

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow wps is very popular in China, people use it with ms office, and there's no problem. There are even some wps code in MS Word

@CesarPeron

Жыл бұрын

​@@ProTechShow WPS Office Is rock solid, especially the Windows version

@ProTechShow

Жыл бұрын

@@CesarPeron I haven't tried it, but I did have more luck with OnlyOffice (see follow-up video in pinned comment)

Honest Video. I switched to Ubuntu in 2008 after buying a somewhat under powered laptop from Dell with Windows Vista. The disk throughput was ~40MB/s. After changing the disk (~80MB/s) and after 2 service packs Vista became usable. Once in 2010 I rescued a large Word document from a colleague, that Word refused to process. I loaded it in OpenOffice; saved it again and that version could be read by MS-Word again and yes there were some minor formatting issues :) :) Nowadays if needed, I use my Windows 11 VM. I'm 77, so I love Evolution and LibreOffice, because it looks like MS-Office 2003.

@ProTechShow

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. A few people suggested giving ONLYOFFICE a try, so I made a follow-up: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qq5lk6Saqqayh5c.html I quite like it because it strongly resembles Office 2019. I prefer the ribbon interface to the older-style menus, but I'm not sold on the newer minimised ribbon that seems to be creeping in.

I am regular Linux user. Switch from Win xp to Ubuntu years ago and very happy with that. But all the time I have virtualbox in Linux with diferent versions of Windows and also dual boot with Windows 10 at moment. Because from time to time I need some specific programs who runs only or better on windows. Both OS have some advantages and lacks so combinating best from both satisfide all my needs. 99% of time I use Linux because no fear of viruses and no need for update Genuise etc. Windows comes better for video editing with Filmora 9 and editing some important files with Microsoft office. I don't play games so my 10 years old laptop HP Pavilon dv7 6025 EG ( i7, 8GB RAM) still does deacent job. Every new Windows version makes my laptop look older and slower but Linux don't. Bdw your presentation is great. I liked to see thing looks similar and fair from your perspective as they do from mine.Thank you for your time and effort to make it and share with us. Greetting from Croatia.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, and yeah; that's pretty much my experience, too. All of the software I use for videos works on Linux, so I've given that a go previously; but driver and codec/licensing limitations mean that in order to achieve the same result with the same software my workflow becomes much more convoluted. It is possible to get Linux to outperform the Windows equivalent a little at rendering, but I lose so much time elsewhere it wasn't worth it.

re MS Office Compatibility: you might want try using Microsoft's strict OOXML format, it is supported by both libre office and MS Office but it's **not** the default in MS Office

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

The issue is more that I can't control what other people use, and they use MS Office with the native format. If it were just me I could install LibreOffice on everything and not worry about it. OnlyOffice seems to fare better compatibility-wise but there are still gaps in the products and the sound on this laptop is just never to work well on Linux it would seem!

Regular Linux user here . Great video with honest and fair criticisms. I switched about 2-3 years ago. Honestly been easier for me than on Windows (work won't let me switch). On my personal laptop and desktop I run Pop!_OS with no issues. I do everything from word docs, excel, PowerPoint, web and so on.. even a good chunk of work stuff too with no issues. But yes Hardware support(glares at Nividia) is one of our biggest issues. I would complain even if the drivers were the normal priority set up.(would prefer open source). But just support would be helpful. For applications like MS office would be nice if the moved to a cloud/web app that could be used like Google docs. My laptop is a old Lenovo edge that I have had to figure out how to use the touch pad alittle differently but is now better in my mind. As I barely use it with having tiling window manager shifting between apps and work spaces. Never having to use the mouse. Gnome is very different than windows UI and a very different work flow that can be customized. KDE is incredibly customizable same with LXD. And for everyone freaking out it's hard to learn a New system I have my 75 year mother running on Linux mint (cinnamon edition) and she loves it cause it's so familiar to windows with a super easy update manager.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

I dislike web apps at the best of times, but even Microsoft's online versions can't open all of the documents properly that I get shared to me and I have to open a fair few of them in the full desktop app regardless. Excel in particular seems to be a regular culprit on that front.

@westonbean9674

2 жыл бұрын

That I can agree to be an issue especially when you get in advanced things with Excel and word. But with MS making several apps for Linux let's hope they make MS available on Linux. People would actually buy it especially for work. Have you tried open office by chance? Some have said it has great compatibility with MS Office.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

@@westonbean9674 OnlyOffice seems to handle the compatibility better. Not sure if it'll handle the more complex files but it's certainly got further than LibreOffice. Unfortunately the audio issue looking like a bust.

Maybe you could try making the sound work properly? In the upstream and for all the distributions, that is. This kind of 'proprietary magic' is sometimes just a matter of figuring out what's broken and then toggling some 'quirks', since OEMs|ODMs don't usually invent this stuff from scratch. Just do a bad job at following the standards. I would love to watch a video about the process!

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

I tried. It's looking like the Dell/Waves collaboration I referred to in the video implements a proprietary psychoacoustic algorithm in the Windows driver that is tuned to the device's audio capabilities. Basically, it knows what frequencies the speakers can and cannot output and when it needs to generate a frequency they can’t reproduce it instead calculates related harmonic frequencies that they can produce and substitutes them. These trick your brain into thinking it heard the original frequency despite it never actually hitting your ear. Very clever, but also unlikely to be replicable without support from Dell/Waves.

@mskiptr

2 жыл бұрын

​@@ProTechShow Wow! That sounds really interesting It's definitely not an introductory kernel development task, but it should still be possible to implement - either by extracting the wave parameters from the Windows version or by measuring them independently. The second approach - while even harder - could potentially improve sound on many unrelated devices (the awesome power of Free and open source software 😉). Do you by any chance know if it was discussed by PulseAudio | PipeWire developers or on lkml | alsa-devel mailing list?

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

No idea. It was someone who watched the video that emailed me with this theory. I can't say for sure but it would explain a lot and looking at other Waves' other software it is consistent with the capabilities of their products. Rumour has it they once had a Linux version (albiet not tuned for this laptop) but they dropped it and didn't share the code (which would make sense if this is the secret sauce they trade on).

This neat, because I am watching you on an old Lenovo T500 laptop running Linux Mint and the Cinnamon desktop. I tossed the old drive and put in an SSD and the double whammy makes it quite usable again. Yes printers are a pain unless you investigate that problem first, which we did. Canon and HP are now our printers of choice, but there are others I'm told.The other problem is trying to migrate a local Microsoft Email cache to Linux. This can be a real deal breaker, and caused us much trouble. Bottom line for us is no more new Microsoft operating systems.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

This one was a Canon. I'd say it's just a finicky printer but I'm not convinced there's any other type! 😆

@BWGPEI

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow I hear you, and don't discount pure luck. But, we have 3 working printers so it can't be pure luck.

@BWGPEI

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow I hear you! I have had more problems with printers than anything else in the 40+ years and now third OS.

So, I was trying to fix something for my game performance in registry amd after that I started to have some issues, tried to restore the registry from a yt vdo and it worked fine and now after that I booted my PC and it showed. Got this msg. C/windows/systemprofile/ desktop is unavailable Tried to fix this by ending explorer.exe and running it once more but after a boot it's back Plus I am not able to click anywhere, the button of Type here to search and that windows icon M kinda fucked plzz help me😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 My dad wouldn't be happy😭😭 He has to do work on this PC plzzzzzzz help me

Instead of saving the documents, you should have exported to docx format... Then no problems opening in MS office.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

They are saved in the correct format. LibreOffice's Open XML support is just wonky. OnlyOffice seems to do a better job of it, having tested that more recently.

Even though I was deep into Micro$oft's ecosystem, I could not stand using Windows for variety of reasons, one of which is the “entities” Micro$oft is collaborating and working with. I did switch over to different Linux distributions many times again and again, but unfortunately ended up coming back to Windows due to having to use certain apps, which Linux didn’t have or didn’t support until I found a Linux distribution I haven’t heard before and decided to give it a try. Ever since I installed Linux “Manjaro”, I never looked back! How customizable (to your liking) Manjaro is..., is absolutely mind-blowing. In terms of speed and performance, my experience with Linux Manjaro is that it is much faster than Windows. Those, who want to ditch Windows and have been looking for a Linux distro that won’t disappoint them, I recommend them Linux Manjaro. Give it a try! You won’t be disappointed. The more you use it, the more reasons you’ll find liking and staying with Manjaro. Just don’t let the learning curve intimidate you.

@Pro Tech Show: What hardware are you using? I've never run into any of the problems you've had in 16 years of using Linux.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

It's a 4.5yo Dell Inspiron. Nothing fancy. TBH it's the best experience I've had with Linux on a laptop. My previous one was missing several drivers and a lot the hardware didn't work. Conversely on my desktops the hardware support has been fine time any time I've run Linux. My takeaway is Linux struggles with driver availability for laptops, which is unsurprising given they tend to be a little less standardised than desktops. Most of my issues are unrelated to the hardware, though. It seems few Linux users attempt to use TPM unlock, but all the bugs I ran into are documented. The screen rotation problem is a GNOME issue - I found the responsible code. They enable rotation based on a particular chassis type but then clearly realised not all convertible laptops use that chassis type so there's a horrible kludge where they've added a series of "if" statements with a specific laptop model hard-coded in each to work around the problem. If your device doesn't match the chassis type and isn't on the hard-coded list of laptop models it doesn't work and mine is a few digits out from the Dell Inspiron on the list. It really is hard-coded at that level of specificity. I've learnt more about the audio issue and there's some proprietary secret sauce going on. Long story short - that's unlikely to ever work properly on Linux unless Dell & Waves decide to release a device-specific driver and given the age of the laptop I doubt that will happen. That one's a real bummer and basically means there's no hope of a good Linux experience on this device.

My use case does not require me to be deep in MS Office land. That said I fully understand your point about what I will call the MS ecosystem ie the sheer interoperability between Office, Outlook, OneNote etc that Linux simply does not currently duplicate. I run Linux Mint as my daily driver on a PC so the sound issue is no concern for me and since my personal life does not require much interaction with Office products, LibreOffice works fine for me. I think your analysis was spot on, ie those who tell folks (noobs) that switching is easy are simply wrong. MOST Windows users have no idea how to format a USB stick let alone get into drive encryption, how SDA vs SDB works as drive indicators rather the the C drive in windows, often cannot even conceptualize items like Partitions etc. These are simply baseline requirements for a reasonable switch to Linux. I love my Mint install and cannot see myself going back to Windows ever. The said the transition took 2 years of borking installs and learning by trial and error before I got truly comfortable with the OS, but now, I cannot see myself going back

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Haha, yes. Some people could benefit from a stint on a tier-1 service desk to open their eyes to the average user! The sound issue is definitely a thing affecting certain Dell laptops. It works fine on my desktop, but that's not a candidate for switching.

Overall, I think this is a good video, but I have a few problems with the decisions you made pertaining to trying out Linux. 1) While Fedora is a good distro, I would never and have ever heard anyone suggest it as a "new user friendly", distro. It's more for advanced users. 2) While your TPM critique is valid and should have an option to be set up by default, I don't understand why you brought the "think about the average user" point up. Average users don't care about encryption and probably don't care to pay the extra money to use BitLocker encryption on Windows anyway on top of the not "by default" nature of it anyway. You have to climb through the settings to turn on Device Encryption and it isn't supported on every device. 3) As far as not liking Gnome, I agree with you there, but this just makes me question why you didn't try another distro like something Debian based which would more support and more options to choose which Desktop Environment you want to use. You don't have to lock yourself into one specific distro especially when you have a bad user experience with the audio. Everything else is fair critique and I actually agree there are lots of things Linux needs work on.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback. If I may respond to those points: 1) A few people have said this, but I didn't find it unfriendly. I think they've done a decent job of making it easy to get up and running (the issues I had aren't specific to Fedora). Maybe my server-side experience with Red Hat made it feel familiar and I'm not "new" enough because of that? 2) The "average user" point wasn't really about the TPM. It was about guides in general. My call to action there would be for people writing the guides to consider their audience as I feel they're often written as if the person writing them would be reading them. To go off on a slight tangent though: it's true the average user wont care, but they changed it a few years back so even on Windows Home if the hardware is supported it will automatically enable encryption using the TPM and back up the key to your Microsoft account when you sign in. Whilst an average user likely won't even know this has happened the outcome is that "don't care" on Windows means your data is protected whereas "don't care" on Fedora means it's more vulnerable (on the right device of course). It would be nice to see that change, but I appreciate there are bigger fish to fry and backing up keys to the cloud without telling you is problematic in itself! 3) To be fair I don't mind GNOME and am quite happy after a few tweaks - it's just the vanilla experience I find to be frustrating. A lot of distros tweak it out of the box anyway! I think a lot of people have focused on me not liking the vanilla experience whereas what I'd hoped they'd take away was that it's really, really good if to have a fiddle with it first. The audio is definitely a Dell/Waves thing unfortunately. I've tested it on a lot of different distros. 🙁

@g0dm4st3r

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow 1) That makes sense, but what I forgot to include was clarification I meant to write. I don't mean to say you are a new user or that you should have used a distro because it would have been new user focused. It was more meant to suggest that maybe another distro with better support would have given you a better experience. While you might have needed to learn some different commands, the GUI package manager and wider support might have made you have an easier time on certain things like the TPM issue. I know Ubunutu Core already comes with TPM encryption unlocking, and if a mainstream branch of a distro has support, it might have been easier. 2) Consider my initial point void then since I missed that you were addressing the guides and their explanations. I am also aware that device encryption is on normal home versions of Windows, but it is still not supported on every device that runs Windows so not everyone has access to encryption. 3) Then you can also ignore this point. lol I know there are proprietary drivers that just don't work well on some devices, but some distros get it better than others. Even for me who has a DAC/AMP combo feeding my headphones and speakers, I have some issues on some distros where I don't have on others. Linux has always struggled with hardware support unfortunately. Thanks for taking the time to respond and clear up the misunderstandings.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

That's intersting. If Ubuntu Core has it perhaps we'll start seeing it in more general use distros out of the box. 👍

I'm Linux user, and sure the audio sucks, but i think it's the lack of a oficial drivers, manufacturers doesn't do. I noted the nvidia sound from hdmi on the oficial driver is much better sound

@ProTechShow

Жыл бұрын

There's a very interesting reason why the audio sucks on this laptop. I made a follow-up because I thought it was really clever once I found out how it actually works: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qq5lk6Saqqayh5c.html

I agree with some of your criticisms, but I think many of them are related to your use of fedora. Fedora is not a beginner distro and it's insistence on using only free software from it's repos makes setup less convenient than a more flexible out of the box experience like Ubuntu and it's derivatives. I used Ubuntu for nearly 3 years without doing much if any terminal work. This was back in the 14/16/18 days. Installing Linux on a laptop not specifically designed for Linux compatability will always be a chore though.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not convinced they were Fedora-related (other than perhaps most other distros not leaving GNOME at vanilla settings, but that was a good prompt to talk about customisation). The remaining problems certainly I've tested on about 10 distros from RHEL, Debian, and Arch familes just in case. I've had a few people say Fedora's more difficult but to me it's helpfully familiar because I'm used to the RHEL family and typing "dnf" instead of "apt". They give you an option in the setup to enable additional repos now which was nice and I added a few more as well. You're right about the hardware. That's the biggest problem I've got with this device - it just can't run at 100% without Windows-only drivers at present. It's why I feel blindly telling random people on the internet to just install Linux and they won't have any problems is bad advice. That's what triggered making the video - I'm all for people trying a new OS as long as they know what they're getting into.

Switched to Zorin+Chrome on three PCs after 30 yrs with Windows. Hardly notice the diff except no bloat or nagging.

Linux faster? Dumb question. Depends how you set it up. Puppy will run in RAM - instantaneous! Or load it up with stuff and it might be slow as Windows. Smart question: What do you want it to do?

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

What question are you responding to? The context here is a specific distro on a specific device with a specific use case compared to the same use case on the same device on Windows. Whether there was a noticeable performance difference is a pertinent question, but you can't extrapolate that to unrelated scenarios; which was stated at the beginning.

Fedora? You would have had a much better time (read: easier) with Linux Mint Cinnamon Edition. I've been a Linux desktop user since 1998... and for ease of use, very few come close 😎👊

Some of us are not proficient in computers and do not understand the computer language. Try to explain what the symbol's mean. Thank you. Like for example TPM and do on

Type Winget update command in Windows Power Shell and be amazed.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

I do have hopes for this. It's a start but it's still far behind and I'm not ready to rely on it. The packages aren't always updated (on a spot check right now even MS Office isn't the right version), and instead of curating the packages themselves or working with vendors MS opened it up to Joe Public to submit whatever they wanted. Initially they didn't even bother to review them, which led to... issues. It's a promising sign for the future and I hope to see it progress but for now I feel that at best it's providing a false sense of security and at worst it's a supply chain vulnerability.

In most online Fedora reviews, 99% of the complaints are about the abhorrent desktop environment. GNOME is janky A.F., and people shouldn't use it for *_any_* use-case scenario.

OK. you need some knowledge for Linux. What about a Windows problem? What do you do? I fix Windows for friends all too often, to save the "call Microsoft" forever solution. The Linux community will help out instantly - if you don't ask stupid questions:, eg How do I turn it on?

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

There's a difference between using a computer and fixing a broken one. This video doesn't cover the latter. Analogy: most people don't know how their car works and if it breaks it's reasonable to expect they'll need help from a mechanic. This doesn't mean they shouldn’t drive, but recommending a kit car to them probably isn't the best idea. To answer your question, though; I think for most issues it's easier to fix Windows because there's more relevant information available. This isn't a criticism, just a reality that more people are using Windows and it's less diverse. If you Google an issue you can find an answer and apply it. With desktop Linux the pool of answers is smaller and they may be specific to a particular version of a particular distro so finding one that fits is more difficult. On the other hand if the issue is obscure I think you would have more luck with Linux because of the community. Massive generalisation, but many self-styled Windows "experts" seem to lose interest after "SFC" and "reinstall" fail to work whereas Linux peeps actually want to try and figure out the solution. Obviously this varies and there are good and bad people on both sides.

🙂 You would have a much better experience with Linux Mint with the Cinnamon Desktop Environment.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

I quite liked GNOME with a few tweaks. Not a fan of the vanilla setup, but then again most distros seem to add similar tweaks by default anyway!

i suggest using only office , it has better microsoft office compatiblity

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

A few have mentioned that and it does seem to work better than LibreOffice, thanks. 👍

while my acer aspire 5 has acer true harmony powered speekers, even on linux the audio is just great, you get sharper sound processing without the audio efffects on these speekers, and most of the hardware works

@ProTechShow

Жыл бұрын

If you're interested in why my laptop's speakers sound so bad on Linux compared to Windows, I made a follow-up: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qq5lk6Saqqayh5c.html

@jordanlivesey4715

Жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow good thing you aint trying chrome OS flex, the audio is absolutely dreadful, and its because chrome OS was not ment to run on regular computers, I've just installed fedora earlier this morning actually, 7 AM UK time

@ProTechShow

Жыл бұрын

I quite like Fedora. Obviously, I've had some issues here, but they're not specific to Fedora. If running desktop Linux it's still the distro I'd install.

@jordanlivesey4715

Жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow with my computer the AMD hd audio doesn't even work on windows giveing me poor sound overall, but as soon as you boot into linux, its much louder, perfect for watching videos, my understanding is that when ever fedora or other linux distributions boot, if they detect AMD hd audio, it tells pulse or pipewire to play sound output through it, even in distributions that don't include proprietary firmware, although I get better quality sound with pipe wire meaning I am staying on fedora for a while longer, the thing I did need to do is make sure I had all the accessibility settings enabled in my bash profile so that chrome would work with the built in screen reader, which it doesn't by default, unlike ubuntu

As a 15+ year Linux user I am honest with myself. Windows is better than Linux. The year of the Linux desktop is just a hallucination. Year of the Linux desktop is NEVER!

Linux (even Mint or Zorin) are not "newbie" friendly - unless you already have some depth in your knowledge of BASH/terminal. I am trying Linux for the first time as an "average user" (Mint and Zorin).......and it's a real battle to say the least. It really is not for inexperienced new users and still has a fair way to go before any sort of mass adoption - unfortunately. Their principal is great "open source, no spying/tracking, full control to the user, minimal need for virus protection etc etc". But, you need some serious computer knowledge that the masses don't have!

@adjmonkey

2 жыл бұрын

I’d say you’re most likely having a harder time than what an inexperienced user would. Why would you need Bash experience for Mint? The only reason I could think of needing the terminal at all is for fixing hardware incompatibility problems. I don’t know about Zorin, I will admit.

@Hexagenium

2 жыл бұрын

@@adjmonkey A harder time than an inexperienced user - BINGO! Green light comes on, That's me, I am an in experienced user. That would be like putting a "different" engine in my mothers car and she says to me but this doesn't work any more. And then, I say to her, just fit such and such to the engine ECM and all will be good. To me it's easy, to her it's not.

When it comes to your sound issue, this video's suggestions helped me fix the same issue on my laptop. kzread.info/dash/bejne/c2t9prlpmrHPYdo.html I have had issues with sound on my Linux desktop workstation too, but usually because of a routing issue during recording when the pulseaudio or ALSA defaulted to the wrong input or output device.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the suggestion. I've got the right device(s) selected and everything is mapped correctly. I don't believe the problem is actually solvable on Linux as it ultimately it comes down to the vendor only supporting Windows. It appears the Dell/Waves collaboration I referred to in the video implements a proprietary psychoacoustic algorithm in the Windows driver that is tuned to the device's audio capabilities. This makes it very unlikely to be replicable without support from Dell/Waves, and sounding pretty awful using any open source drivers.

@jeremybarlow2291

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow I made the suggestion before I finished watching the clip, so I realized that afterwords, but tinny sound is a common problem on laptops running Linux & for a lot of people I think that video will solve the problem. I know if did for me & I have been using Linux since 2005, but I just installed in on an old laptop & experienced that problem.

I like linux and windows so I installed windows on my desktop and linux on my laptop.

Really refreshingly honest and objective take. I tend to feel Linux genuinely suffers from blind advocacy-and once soured, the average user won’t try it easily again. At the end of the day there really is a reason Linux holds such a tiny percentage of the desktop pie.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

The reaction to this video has been interesting. I've received a fair amount of abuse for suggesting Linux isn't perfect - including one or two who seem to think Microsoft have paid me to lie about Linux because it can't possibly have these issues. 🤷‍♂️ The majority of the Linux community have been pretty measured and objective, though. The crazies are still there but I feel that they are becoming more and more the minority.

Pro Tech Show: "...I hope i can give a balanced viewpoint..." Also Pro Tech Show: "...The distro i chose was Fedora..." I know Linux systems have lots of problems when it comes to end user experience and they have even more when you chose the wrong distro for the wrong job. If you want to present a balanced viewpoint when it comes to the end user experience using Linux (especially compared to Windows 11) you should use what the Linux beginner is using right now and that's Linux Mint with Cinnamon.

@ProTechShow

Жыл бұрын

Blaming the distro is just an excuse. None of my deal-breaking issues are related to Fedora. FWIW I tested them on at least 10 different distros from the Red Hat, Debian, and Arch families; and they were present in all. This includes Mint Cinnamon. GNOME has its foibles, but I can tweak it to work the way I like. I chose Fedora because I am most familiar with it, having used it on and off since the Fedora Core days; and because I use RHEL-based distros fairly often on servers. It was the right choice for me, and remains my preferred Linux desktop choice.

i always use gmail on the browser i find it the best way on my linux desktop

@CesarPeron

Жыл бұрын

Web apps are freedom 🎉

I also like Outlook better than Evolution.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

I was beginning to think I was the only person who actually liked Outlook! 😁

from libre office I move to only office no problem anymore.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

I've also found OnlyOffice to have better compatibility. Doesn't solve all my problems but gets it closer!

Gnome is glorious with extension stock sucks with a mouse.

@ProTechShow

Жыл бұрын

Interesting that you say "with a mouse". I've never found a use for workspaces / virtual desktops on Windows or Linux so I just ignore them, but when using Fedora on my laptop the most surprising thing was that I found myself using them. Definitely a lot more natural with a touchpad/touchscreen and when you're limited to a single monitor. I tried using them on my desktop in case I was missing out - nope, still felt like an annoying gimmick over there.

@Ghfvhvfg

Жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow the touch gestures are great good idea for a surface device.

@Ghfvhvfg

Жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow maybe kde fits your workflow

@ProTechShow

Жыл бұрын

KDE feels a little cluttered compared to Gnome (almost like using an older version of Windows). I like Gnome's clean approach... to a point. I just think they've gone too far at the cost of usability in the vanilla version. With a couple of extensions it's alright, though.

I did a year ago, glad I did...mint was the one...

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it worked out for you. What do you like most about it?

@barrykirkby9626

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow ease of use to be honest and the fact I haven't needed to touch the terminal, I got done with that larky with win 3 and xp.. these days as far as I'm concerned the need to type in to get or do anything shouldn't be needed except for repair etc. Dealing with the 60tb of dives used is easy too as is networking the local machines. The only thing I use win for now is Adobe products and that's handled via virtual machine. 👍

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Intersting that you've stayed away from the terminal. I think I had the opposite problem to most people trying desktop Linux - I had to force myself not to use the terminal. The number of times I found myself opening VIM and having to correct myself... force of habit I suppose but strange as I'd never think to open a text file via the command line in Windows; but apparently my brain was in Linux-mode, desktop or not.

@barrykirkby9626

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow When you start life on computers running nothing but dos and the worst GUI - in fact I go back so far it was reel to reel and a dot matrix printer. The idea of going back to it just defies logic with the strides made with os's and software sort of pointless if you get my meaning..

yes.

ima say YES you need to switch to linux

Well some of these "issues" are only based on how you wanted the setup. Now, if you instead simply wanted a password to unlock your encryption, that simple checkbox in Linux would have worked out-of-box. What if you wanted the same in Windows and you did not have a TPM installed? Not to mention their stupid Pin vs Password for Bitlocker. If you want to decide which to use, you will have to dick around the registry a bit. Windows supports encryption using TPM by default. Linux supports encryption using a passphrase by default. You wanted something outside of the supported features, just like I have to do work-arounds some times with Bitlocker. The difference is that you could properly find a distro that supports your needs out-of-box. I can't with Windows.

@ProTechShow

Жыл бұрын

I said at the start I'm comparing them for my own use case. If I limited the scope only to the features I use that Linux is good at then it wouldn't be a fair comparison. I find using the TPM to be a lot more convenient than having to type two different passwords every time my computer starts but Windows can use a password instead of a TPM as well. It's less convenient to configure than one tickbox, but it's not a buggy experience so I still give it the win. For what it's worth I tried more than 10 different distros from Red Hat, Debian, and Arch branches. None of them supported my needs out of the box. I didn't show the rest in the video because my main issues were the same with each of them. I do agree with your sentiment about choice, though. With Windows things either work or they don't. With (desktop) Linux they don't necessarily work as well, but the answer is never a complete "no", either... you can always find some way of doing it. In my case, though; the effort to work around my desktop problems on Linux doesn't stack up if I can just use Windows instead. For me it isn't "Linux or bust" - it's "Which works best for me?".

@danielberglv259

Жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow I understand your point. I am just pointing out that if I made a similar video with Windows in focus, I would have the exact same issue (maybe a better end result though). I don't want auto unlock using a TPM. Though I am a bit surprised that it's this buggy in Linux.

@ProTechShow

Жыл бұрын

@@danielberglv259 fair enough. There is no one-size-fits all answer - hence why I tried to clarify at the start that this video is about my use case. I'm sure yours would be different! People often ask which is better: Windows or Linux, and my typical reply is to ask them which is better: a hammer or a screwdriver? The only real answer is to use the right tool for the job at hand!

AUDIO was exactly the damn same problem I had on my Fedora Desktop recently! Mine was Acer and the entire volume output was way too low.

winget upgrade --all

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

I'm really hoping this is the future but I'm not ready to trust it... yet. If I install from a Fedora/RHEL repo I may be installing a third party tool but I know someone has validated it. Microsoft initially went live with Winget and allowed the public to submit packages without a proper review process. They've put a review in place now but I'm still cautious about trusting it given the growth in IT supply-chain attacks. Maybe I'm being overly risk-averse but I'll let it bed in a bit first. Good to see they're working on the problem, but it feels like they've taken a few shortcuts.

@_jdfx

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow when you update Windows, you are the tester.

I don't recommend a switch from Windows 11 to Linux.

The fact that Windows tied to a Windows OEM (Dell ) in this case has propriety drivers that only support Microsoft is no surprise. This is the M.O. of Microsoft and hardware partners since the beginning of the microcomputer age. THIS IS WHAT THEY DO! Make screwy MS drivers ONLY. The fact that MS office and sound doesnt work properly is NOT a coincidence, and its been the SAME problem running a linux desktop 20 years ago (with other problems, too). If Linux of any distro wants to break through, then people have to make drivers to bridge the gap - just remember the gap is there for a reason, and that reason is to make Linux nonfunctional and keep the majority of users addicted to Windows.

Small user base => no business case for supporting Linux desktops, even at the entrepreneurial level. This is compounded by the Linux OS-zoo: the fact that Linux is not _an_ OS, it's a family of more than 200 types of OS, a situation that fragments that small user-base even further. This reminds me of the CP/M vs MS-DOS arguments of 1984-6: CP/M was fractured across manufacturers [even CP/M-86 couldn't save it]; MS-DOS [having only tiny differences with PC-DOS] was always cross-system compatible, per its business-centric, not programmer-centric design. It's the item supported by a strong business case that will always win out, as shown by the surge in Linux servers.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Very true. There's a element of one reinforcing the other, too. My audio gripes come down to Dell not supporting Linux. Dell won't support it because not enough people use it to be worth Dell's' time, but why would people use it when it has issues resulting from a lack of vendor support by Dell? There's a bit of a vicious circle there.

About the User experience: GNOME is famous for being controversial, with developers really engraved into ti claiming that "the traditional desktop metaphor is dead", thus they try to make things their own way. Sometimes they are innovative, sometimes they are blunt. About the window switching: according to their official help, one is supposed to change windows with alt+tab, but I personally hit the windows key (which works like the activities button) and then click the window in the overview. I rarely use the dock for more than launching my pinned apps.

@Natsumi170

2 жыл бұрын

Even Microsoft is switching away from the Windows 95 metaphor.

yes gnome is not a nice desktop i really am a fan of cinnamon on debian, i keep trying other linux but nothing ever betters it for me i also like the xfce desktop

Yes. Yes, you should. By the way, I use Arch.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Haha. To the point. I think it'll have to be on the next laptop. My ears can't cope with the audio on this one.

Linux isn't for everyone, for example people who aren't willing to learn and people who give up easily. Also, it's easy to criticize things like lack of third-party support, but one of the greatest benefits of switching to Linux is almost never mentioned... Privacy.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

If you consider that in order to get my desktop environment working properly I ended up reading through the source code to find the problem and implent a workaround... How many average computer users who are being advised to switch to Linux could get that far? Saying they're unwilling to learn or give up too easily is avoiding the issue. That level of effort should not be necessary, and if it is then people should not be recommending it to random people and telling them it's easy.

@liquidmobius

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow I've never had to read through source code to get any Linux DE working, and I've tried over 30 different distros. Nor anyone I know for that matter. They've all worked flawlessly. Not exactly sure what you're doing, but it's not normal and definitely not something the so-called "average computer user" would EVER encounter.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Just rotating my screen is all. Hardly an abnormal thing to do on a convertible laptop. The issue briefly gets pointed out in the video. There's a hard-coded list of models my device isn't on. GNOME only acknowledges the screen being rotated if the laptop supplies a particular chassis type or is on that hard-coded list. Recompiling GNOME to add a specific model of laptop to a list is a bit crazy but I could kludge it to report a chassis type GNOME would accept.

NO,

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Short and concise

You need one technical skill to use Linux. Learn to read.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

Reading and understanding are two different things. To solve one of my problems I ended up reading through the GNOME source code to find the issue so I could implement a workaround. Most computer users do not have the ability to do that. It doesn't mean they can't read - it means they lack specific technical skills (in this case programming and a knowledge of the SMBIOS specification). Could they lean these by reading? Sure, but they could also learn quantum physics by reading. The question is the level of effort required to be able to gain these skills - if it's more than an average person is willing to invest then it's not worth recommending to them.

@barend63

2 жыл бұрын

@@ProTechShow Valid point. If you really want to change to Linux, you must have a reason. In that case you will make the effort. Most computer users are not computer literate and will stick to an easy to operate system. I blame the education system. People can't spell properly, don't read much and don't have a clue on how to research anything. Spoon fed generation who expect everything to fall into their laps. Linux is not for them.

Fedora is actually not for newbies, that's good point and bad choice for review on that point.

@badeline9967

2 жыл бұрын

He is not a Newby, and his problems are not specific to Fedora. I wouldn't recommend Fedora to a total noob because of less community support and tutorials written for it specifically, otherwise it's as easy or hard as any other beginner distro.

@user-ph6xj9qf5w

2 жыл бұрын

@@badeline9967 author is not noob indeed, it was written about noob's perspective what he is touched on at some point. Fedora brings vanilla Gnome (which is awful) and mostly CLI method to install apps, so Ubuntu-Mint or Manjaro-Garuda much more user-friendly, so I think would better choice to review, from my newbie's perspective)

@badeline9967

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-ph6xj9qf5w I think he just tried to present some strengths and weaknesses of Linux in general (compared to windows) and I don't see how his choice of Fedora devalued any of the points he made. It's not a guide for Linux beginners or a distro recommendation. Also, your depiction of default Gnome is very subjective, I love it and the author seemed to like it even more than windows with a few gnome extensions installed. Everyone should just use what works best for them, it's not like there's anything perfect out there.

@brnddi

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-ph6xj9qf5w you can always use a different spin of Fedora if you don't like Gnome. You don't need to use CLI to install apps -- since Fedora 35 you don't even need to enable RPMFusion since the installer prompts you for it. I think Fedora's one of the best distros you can go for as a beginner.

@root8272

2 жыл бұрын

Don't know where this idea came from, I've had way less difficulty getting Fedora set-up than Ubuntu.

Fedora, on desktop?! Skydiving for children?

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

IMO it works better as a desktop distro than a server one. I've used it on a (non-production) server previously and don't find it sufficiently stable for that use case. Then again, I like skydiving! I'm not sure they make rigs for children, though.

So Windoze is the choice of the unteachable lazy type, I agree so please stay with MS.

@ProTechShow

2 жыл бұрын

What school do you suggest I go to that will change the frequency range of my speakers through teaching? Hogwarts?